The page being discussed is
<https://brownmath.com/general/10tip.htm>

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 12:53:24 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> A coupe of thoughts/observations:
> 1. (This may be a Chrome thing rather than anything to do with the page,
> but didn't happen with a few of the other links on the page I tried):
> When I hover over "10 Ways to Open the Command Prompt in Windows 10", my
> where-is-that-going indicator shows
> "howtogeek.com/235101/10-ways-to-open-the-command-prompt-in-windows-10/",
> then after a second or two changes to
> "https://www.howtogeek.com/235101/10-ways-to-open-the-command-prompt-in-w
> indows-10/" - i. e. it adds the "https://www." bit. Not important, just
> odd!

I think it's a Chrome thing, specifically related to some setting. It
doesn't happen for me in Chrome.

I'm sorry, I don't know which setting controls it. I thought it was
related to "Always show full URLs", which you access by right-
clicking the URL box. By default it's unchecked, but I have it
checked. However, when I tried unchecking it, I got the "simplified"
URL in the address bar, but hovering over the link I still got the
full URL immediately.

> 2. In the history section, under 1-4 Jan 2022, you say "Also created an
> image [Windows logo key] for the Windows logo key." I wondered if you
> knew that the last character (FF, or 255) in Wingdings is that
> character. (OK, assumes the presence of that font, but for once I think
> it'd be reasonable to assume anyone reading the page does!) I will admit
> I wasn't sure when I started reading the page what your little image
> _did_ represent. (But that isn't meant as a criticism.)

Thanks for the feedback on this point. Unfortunately, I can't use the
character _as_ a character because the page uses the windows-1252
character set, in which character 255 is ÿ (y with dieresis). I had
CSS to use the Wingdings font for character 255, and it worked for
the local copy of the page but not for the copy served from the
website.

Also, I think people reading on their phones or other mobile devices
would most likely not have Microsoft's Wingdings font, even if they
use Windows on their laptop or desktop.

So I entered the character in Word, then screencapped it and saved it
as a GIF. It looks fine in Firefox, but unfortunately it's a little
muddy in Chrome. I think Chrome doesn't support GIFs with a
transparent color.

<https://brownmath.com/general/10tip.htm#Settings>
shows the character.
> (For entering funny characters: for those with UK keyboards you don't
> need anything unusual for a lot of them - just use the Alt Gr key [which
> is the right Alt key]: with e etc., it gives éáíóúýÉÁÍÓÚÝÇ;
> with 2 [which has " on it on UK layout] _then_ a letter it gives
> äöüÿïëÄËÏÖÜ?; with 6 [^] it gives êâîôûÊÂÎÔÛ; with
> # [~] _then_ it gives ñÑ; and probably others.)

I've added a condensed version of this, at
<https://brownmath.com/general/10tip.htm#U20220411a>
If you feel moved to, please take a look and let me know if I wrote
anything that's false or confusing.

> Thanks again: as wasbit says, a useful and easy-to-read document.

That's what I strive for. Thanks for the compliment!

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 4/10/2022 7:58 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 14:27:28 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>> I'm running a Canon LiDE 60 here. I installed it under Windows 10 and
>> it now runs without a problem in 11. I don't remember doing anything
>> special to get it to work.
>>
>> Telling you that doesn't help solve your problem, but it least lets
>> you know that a solution is possible.
>
> Maybe it does help, Ken. I have an LiDE 50, but the only difference
> between the two is that the 50 doesn't do some metric size of paper.
> Is your Lide 60 driver installer somewhere I can grab it?
>

Listings like this, allow you to detect exact model matches.
The LIDE 35,40,50 would be identical. Some of the others share
somewhat of a commonality. Whereas the LIDE 70 is likely entirely
different silicon.

http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#Z-CANON

CanoScan LiDE 35 USB 0x04a9/0x2213 Good Same ids as LiDE 50. sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 40 USB 0x04a9/0x2213 Good Same ids as LiDE 50. sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 50 USB 0x04a9/0x2213 Good sane-genesys

CanoScan LiDE 60 USB 0x04a9/0x221c Good sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 70 USB 0x04a9/0x2225 Basic Please test! sane-canon_lide70
CanoScan LiDE 80 USB 0x04a9/0x2214 Basic No 2400 dpi support, slow speed at lower resolution sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 90 USB 0x04a9/0x1900 Good resolutions from 300 to 2400 dpi are supported sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 100 USB 0x04a9/0x1904 Complete resolutions from 75 to 2400 dpi are supported sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 110 USB 0x04a9/0x1909 Complete resolutions from 75 to 2400 dpi are supported sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 120 USB 0x04a9/0x190e Complete resolutions from 75 to 2400 dpi are supported sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 200 USB 0x04a9/0x1905 Complete resolutions from 75 to 4800 dpi are supported sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 210 USB 0x04a9/0x190a Complete resolutions from 75 to 4800 dpi are supported sane-genesys
CanoScan LiDE 220 USB 0x04a9/0x190f Complete resolutions from 75 to 4800 dpi are supported sane-genesys

Some of these $100 scanners are single-chip designs,
and the high level of integration helps keep the cost down.
I think Natsemi may have made some chips like that.

Genesys also makes things like USB hubs.

Some chips have a serial interface on the side.
You can connect an 8 pin serial EEPROM, and in there
store a number like

0x04a9/0x221c

The chip might be exactly the same as

0x04a9/0x2213

but you can customize the response if you want.

Maybe to the driver, when it checks the ID, it knows
the "13" has a twelve inch bed, and the "1c" has
an eighteen inch bed, and the number of stepper ticks
is different.

Scanner chip datasheets, as far as I know, are carefully
guarded, compared to some of the other every-day chips
we use. While the device IDs are interesting, there's
no way to know exactly what the significance of that is.

Scanners don't necessarily have sufficient interlocks
and limit switches, to detect every possible condition.
Same as some cheap printers have poor "resynchronization"
hardware features, and the transport can get out of sync.
These are reasons, it isn't always a good idea to be
the "first guinea pig" to test a hobbyist driver :-)

Paul

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 at 11:19:27, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>
wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 12:53:24 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> Ditto; I am still a 7 user, but support the odd 10-user (and some who
>> are not odd!).
>
>There's still a Windows 7 tips page, John:
>
><https://brownmath.com/general/7tip.htm>

Thanks! Looks useful. Three things:
1. You disabled Caps Lock (or made it another shift key) because you
kept hitting it accidentally. I've seen others do similar - I use the
built-in alert (it's buried in the accessibility options - called Toggle
Keys IIRR/), which leaves me access to Caps Lock (I do find it
_occasionally_ useful), but gives me a beep if I hit it accidentally (or
deliberately of course!). Actually it's two different beeps, one for on
and one for off, and works for all three lock keys. (I haven't seen
anything that _uses_ scroll lock for decades!)
2. For saving my desktop icon layout, I use iconoid. I just like the
idea of a website called https://www.sillysot.com/ (-:. [Says it works
under 10 and 11 too.]
3. You say (of the W7 'group "Google has chosen not to archive this one
newsgroup." AIUI, Google Groups only supports the groups that were in
existence when it was set up (or rather, when they took over Dejanews),
and even then not some of the alt.* 'groups; certainly, as the 7 'group
(and 10 and later, of course) was created after that, it doesn't.
(Accessing usenet via Google Groups is sad anyway, though some e. g.
'phone OSs may not have any other way of accessing usenet, at least
easily.)

Thanks again - another useful document!
>
>And a specialized one on curbing unneeded services in Windows 7:
>
><https://brownmath.com/general/7service.htm>
>
Well, I've applied your hint from the '7 document to stop
trustedinstaller going berserk, but the latter document ... hmm, seems
to be mainly to do with Acronis and iTunes, neither of which I have
used. My main irritating user of resources is svchost, which I know is
just a wrapper for other things, but when people have tried to help see
what, I just get brain-ache (-:. Services in general seem to be a can of
worms - some mention of Black Viper IIRR? - my main concern being that I
might turn something off which months later I find is needed, but I've
totally forgotten I turned it off.
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[What's your guilty pleasure?] Why should you feel guilty about pleasure? -
Michel Roux Jr in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 at 12:52:00, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>
wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
>The page being discussed is
><https://brownmath.com/general/10tip.htm>
>
>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 12:53:24 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> A coupe of thoughts/observations:
>> 1. (This may be a Chrome thing rather than anything to do with the page,
>> but didn't happen with a few of the other links on the page I tried):
>> When I hover over "10 Ways to Open the Command Prompt in Windows 10", my
>> where-is-that-going indicator shows
>> "howtogeek.com/235101/10-ways-to-open-the-command-prompt-in-windows-10/",
>> then after a second or two changes to
>> "https://www.howtogeek.com/235101/10-ways-to-open-the-command-prompt-in-w
>> indows-10/" - i. e. it adds the "https://www." bit. Not important, just
>> odd!
>
>I think it's a Chrome thing, specifically related to some setting. It
>doesn't happen for me in Chrome.
>
>I'm sorry, I don't know which setting controls it. I thought it was
>related to "Always show full URLs", which you access by right-
>clicking the URL box. By default it's unchecked, but I have it
>checked. However, when I tried unchecking it, I got the "simplified"
>URL in the address bar, but hovering over the link I still got the
>full URL immediately.

I just tried turning that on, and it didn't seem to make any difference.
When I referred to my "where-is-that-going indicator", I meant something
that shows where a link would go, that I have in the bottom-left corner
(though can be moved to any of the other corners), which I now find is
an extension called Show Title Tag
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/show-title-tag/pkbffbhglicfngmp
pdlpmpblfgnkdgio . No problem though, just a curiosity!
>
>> 2. In the history section, under 1-4 Jan 2022, you say "Also created an
>> image [Windows logo key] for the Windows logo key." I wondered if you
>> knew that the last character (FF, or 255) in Wingdings is that
>> character. (OK, assumes the presence of that font, but for once I think
>> it'd be reasonable to assume anyone reading the page does!) I will admit
>> I wasn't sure when I started reading the page what your little image
>> _did_ represent. (But that isn't meant as a criticism.)
>
>Thanks for the feedback on this point. Unfortunately, I can't use the
>character _as_ a character because the page uses the windows-1252
>character set, in which character 255 is ÿ (y with dieresis). I had
>CSS to use the Wingdings font for character 255, and it worked for
>the local copy of the page but not for the copy served from the
>website.
>
>Also, I think people reading on their phones or other mobile devices
>would most likely not have Microsoft's Wingdings font, even if they
>use Windows on their laptop or desktop.

Ah, I'd assumed anyone reading a page on Windows tips would be doing so
on a Windows computer (and thus have Wingdings). It hadn't occurred to
me they might be looking at it on a 'phone!
[]
>> (For entering funny characters: for those with UK keyboards you don't
>> need anything unusual for a lot of them - just use the Alt Gr key [which
>> is the right Alt key]: with e etc., it gives éáíóúýÉÁÍÓÚÝÇ;
>> with 2 [which has " on it on UK layout] _then_ a letter it gives
>> äöüÿïëÄËÏÖÜ?; with 6 [^] it gives êâîôûÊÂÎÔÛ; with
>> # [~] _then_ it gives ñÑ; and probably others.)
>
>I've added a condensed version of this, at
><https://brownmath.com/general/10tip.htm#U20220411a>
>If you feel moved to, please take a look and let me know if I wrote
>anything that's false or confusing.

Looked a good condense of what I typed. (I actually tried it on 7; I
don't have a 10 machine.) The only thing that _might_ be confusing is
you said "Alt?Gr+e gives é, Alt?Gr+2 e gives ë, and so forth" - the
first is a _combination_, the second is a _sequence_ (i. e. you press
AltGr and 2 [or 6 or #] _then_ the character to be modified). [You also
said "Those are characters up to and including U+00FF (ÿ)." I don't
know if anything like all of the ones up to ÿ have such codes: I only
know about the accent/Umlaut/tilde ones. Ones for
×¼½¾?朲³μ?•Šº?°…±þW™†ß© ¢ would be
handy! (I liked AllChars which you mentioned, which had a similar way of
working but for anyone just using Ctrl, but it seems to turn itself off
- or not start - after a while for me.)]
>
>> Thanks again: as wasbit says, a useful and easy-to-read document.
>
>That's what I strive for. Thanks for the compliment!
>
YW (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You make it from scratch?
Yep.
Do you make your own scratch?
--
"pyotr filipivich" in alt.windows7.general 2017-5-20

On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 15:29:51 -0000 (UTC), Zaidy036
<Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:

>Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
>>
>> | Canon never created digitally signed drivers for the LiDE 50 or 60
>> | scanner. I was nonetheless able to install the driver through the
>> | procedure documented at
>> | <https://BrownMath.com/general/10tip.htm#LegacyDrivers>
>> |
>>
>> That looks old. The nointegritychecks switch also doesn't work?
>>
>> You can also use the Windows Image Acquisition interface to
>> access a scanner, in place of TWAIN, but it's very unlikely that
>> your scanner supports it. WIA is supported back to XP SP1 but
>> I think device makers have to provide some kind of interface
>> for it.... Might be time to buy a new device. Though I've noticed
>> that prices seem to be going up. My last two printer/scanners
>> were each about $80, as I recall. Almost as cheap as buying new
>> ink. But now they seem to start at about twice that price.

I bought a printer. I used it for the purpose for which I bought it.
When I didn't use it for a while, the ink in the cartridges' nozzles
dried out and wouldn't get wet again no matter what I did.

Replacement cartridges were £80 (over $100 at the time) so I didn't
buy any.

When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".

Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.

Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
hundred quid or so.

I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
and I *still* can't print anything.

Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)

>>
>>
>>
>
>Try Vuescan for free. Pay otherwise has watermark OR prelim scan then
>screen copy into jpg to print without mark.

That looks like good software, thank you.

J.

"John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote

| I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
| and I *still* can't print anything.
| | Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
| I'm similar. I print few things. I used to have an Epson
but it refused to work at all when it decided it was time
for me to buy more ink. So I went back to HP. I try to
print something occasionally to keep the ink going. But
I've also had pretty good luck with a trick I found:

Pour a slight amount of water into a plate or bowl. Set the
cartridge into it for a few minutes. Dab it dry on a paper towel.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 15:29:51 -0000 (UTC), Zaidy036
><Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>
>>Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
>>>
>>> | Canon never created digitally signed drivers for the LiDE 50 or 60
>>> | scanner. I was nonetheless able to install the driver through the
>>> | procedure documented at
>>> | <https://BrownMath.com/general/10tip.htm#LegacyDrivers>
>>> |
>>>
>>> That looks old. The nointegritychecks switch also doesn't work?
>>>
>>> You can also use the Windows Image Acquisition interface to
>>> access a scanner, in place of TWAIN, but it's very unlikely that
>>> your scanner supports it. WIA is supported back to XP SP1 but
>>> I think device makers have to provide some kind of interface
>>> for it.... Might be time to buy a new device. Though I've noticed
>>> that prices seem to be going up. My last two printer/scanners
>>> were each about $80, as I recall. Almost as cheap as buying new
>>> ink. But now they seem to start at about twice that price.
>
> I bought a printer. I used it for the purpose for which I bought it.
>When I didn't use it for a while, the ink in the cartridges' nozzles
>dried out and wouldn't get wet again no matter what I did.
>
> Replacement cartridges were £80 (over $100 at the time) so I didn't
>buy any.
>
> When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
>an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".
>
> Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.
>
> Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
>new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
>hundred quid or so.
>
> I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>and I *still* can't print anything.
>
> Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)

You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
choice.

On 2022-04-11 7:33 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 15:29:51 -0000 (UTC), Zaidy036
>> <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>>
>>> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
>>>>
>>>> | Canon never created digitally signed drivers for the LiDE 50 or 60
>>>> | scanner. I was nonetheless able to install the driver through the
>>>> | procedure documented at
>>>> | <https://BrownMath.com/general/10tip.htm#LegacyDrivers>
>>>> |
>>>>
>>>> That looks old. The nointegritychecks switch also doesn't work?
>>>>
>>>> You can also use the Windows Image Acquisition interface to
>>>> access a scanner, in place of TWAIN, but it's very unlikely that
>>>> your scanner supports it. WIA is supported back to XP SP1 but
>>>> I think device makers have to provide some kind of interface
>>>> for it.... Might be time to buy a new device. Though I've noticed
>>>> that prices seem to be going up. My last two printer/scanners
>>>> were each about $80, as I recall. Almost as cheap as buying new
>>>> ink. But now they seem to start at about twice that price.
>>
>> I bought a printer. I used it for the purpose for which I bought it.
>> When I didn't use it for a while, the ink in the cartridges' nozzles
>> dried out and wouldn't get wet again no matter what I did.
>>
>> Replacement cartridges were £80 (over $100 at the time) so I didn't
>> buy any.
>>
>> When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
>> an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".
>>
>> Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.
>>
>> Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
>> new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
>> hundred quid or so.
>>
>> I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>> and I *still* can't print anything.
>>
>> Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
>
>
> You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
> a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
> choice.
>

You can say that again, I have had my Okidata c5150n color laser going
on 15 years with thousands and thousands of black and white and color
pages and it's still going strong. Wouldn't have an inkjet if you gave
it to me.

Rene

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:13:40 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>On 2022-04-11 7:33 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 15:29:51 -0000 (UTC), Zaidy036
>>> <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> | Canon never created digitally signed drivers for the LiDE 50 or 60
>>>>> | scanner. I was nonetheless able to install the driver through the
>>>>> | procedure documented at
>>>>> | <https://BrownMath.com/general/10tip.htm#LegacyDrivers>
>>>>> |
>>>>>
>>>>> That looks old. The nointegritychecks switch also doesn't work?
>>>>>
>>>>> You can also use the Windows Image Acquisition interface to
>>>>> access a scanner, in place of TWAIN, but it's very unlikely that
>>>>> your scanner supports it. WIA is supported back to XP SP1 but
>>>>> I think device makers have to provide some kind of interface
>>>>> for it.... Might be time to buy a new device. Though I've noticed
>>>>> that prices seem to be going up. My last two printer/scanners
>>>>> were each about $80, as I recall. Almost as cheap as buying new
>>>>> ink. But now they seem to start at about twice that price.
>>>
>>> I bought a printer. I used it for the purpose for which I bought it.
>>> When I didn't use it for a while, the ink in the cartridges' nozzles
>>> dried out and wouldn't get wet again no matter what I did.
>>>
>>> Replacement cartridges were £80 (over $100 at the time) so I didn't
>>> buy any.
>>>
>>> When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
>>> an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".
>>>
>>> Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.
>>>
>>> Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
>>> new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
>>> hundred quid or so.
>>>
>>> I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>>> and I *still* can't print anything.
>>>
>>> Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
>>
>>
>> You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
>> a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
>> choice.
>>
>
>You can say that again,

OK, I will. You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet
printers and buy a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are
a much better choice.

> I have had my Okidata c5150n color laser going
>on 15 years with thousands and thousands of black and white and color
>pages and it's still going strong. Wouldn't have an inkjet if you gave
>it to me.
>
>Rene

Rene Lamontagne wrote:

> Okidata c5150n

The latest driver Okidata provide works under Windows 7. So, after
Windows 8, 10, 11, and whatever comes next, that 15-year old laser
printer still running well is going to be a bitch to get working, if at
all, on later versions of Windows. So, you still have a Win7 host in
your intranet on which to use that printer, or using a VM with Win7 as
the guest OS? What are your plans to keep that printer working through
later versions of Windows?

Laser printers have a laser beam that tracks back and forth across the
drum. LED printer, like your Okidata, use an array of LEDs that flash
the entire line at once. So, are laser printers (using lasers) and LED
printers both "laser" printers?

I always thought flashing the entire line at once would allow faster
throughput. There's the time to flash a complete line, or the time to
run a laser beam across the drum. Seems LEDs would be inherently
faster, but I don't know the rate at which the LEDs can be flash to
stabilize at a consistent light intensity. However, I thought laser
printers produced sharper output. LED printers have a fixed resolution,
but laser printers can vary the dot size to change resolution. The
laser is consistent for output intensity versus the LED array (and 4 of
them for color) can variance in the light output between the LEDs.

https://www.oki.com/us/printing/
"OKI Data Americas has discontinued the sales of all OKI-branded printer
hardware in the United States, Canada, and Latin America."

Found other articles that say Oki stopped selling hardware to North,
Central, and South American markets as of March 21, 2021. Means getting
consumables, especially Oki-branded, is going to get pricier as stock
dwindles.

https://www.keypointintelligence.com/media/2965/oki-revenue-by-regionc.jpg

The Americas was only 6% of their sales.

On 2022-04-11 9:01 p.m., VanguardLH wrote:
> Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>
>> Okidata c5150n
>
> The latest driver Okidata provide works under Windows 7. So, after
> Windows 8, 10, 11, and whatever comes next, that 15-year old laser
> printer still running well is going to be a bitch to get working, if at
> all, on later versions of Windows. So, you still have a Win7 host in
> your intranet on which to use that printer, or using a VM with Win7 as
> the guest OS? What are your plans to keep that printer working through
> later versions of Windows?
>

Surprise for you VangardLH That printer has worked flawlessly in all
versions of Windows incluing 7, 8, 8.1, 10 and 11 using the same
drivers (C51200GDEA.exe) since I bought it in 2007, All with full OKI
features, Okidata Know how to write drivers, It is also working in
Linux Mint 20.3 and works in Puppy and MXlinux, all using Foomatic2
drivers .

> Laser printers have a laser beam that tracks back and forth across the
> drum. LED printer, like your Okidata, use an array of LEDs that flash
> the entire line at once. So, are laser printers (using lasers) and LED
> printers both "laser" printers?

Actually Okidata calls it an LED printer

>
> I always thought flashing the entire line at once would allow faster
> throughput. There's the time to flash a complete line, or the time to
> run a laser beam across the drum. Seems LEDs would be inherently
> faster, but I don't know the rate at which the LEDs can be flash to
> stabilize at a consistent light intensity. However, I thought laser
> printers produced sharper output. LED printers have a fixed resolution,
> but laser printers can vary the dot size to change resolution. The
> laser is consistent for output intensity versus the LED array (and 4 of
> them for color) can variance in the light output between the LEDs.

Never see any variance in color output although this is not a photo
quality machine 1200 x 600. dpi

>
> https://www.oki.com/us/printing/
> "OKI Data Americas has discontinued the sales of all OKI-branded printer
> hardware in the United States, Canada, and Latin America."
>
> Found other articles that say Oki stopped selling hardware to North,
> Central, and South American markets as of March 21, 2021. Means getting
> consumables, especially Oki-branded, is going to get pricier as stock
> dwindles.

I don't use OKI OEM toners but buy new cartridges Made by MediaScience,
These are *new* carts, not re manufactured or refills at 1/5th of the
price, no shortsge of those yet, and a set of 5000 page carts lasts me 2
to 3 years :-)

>
> https://www.keypointintelligence.com/media/2965/oki-revenue-by-regionc.jpg
>
> The Americas was only 6% of their sales.
>

Rene

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:33:43 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 15:29:51 -0000 (UTC), Zaidy036
>><Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>>
>>>Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
>>>>
>>>> | Canon never created digitally signed drivers for the LiDE 50 or 60
>>>> | scanner. I was nonetheless able to install the driver through the
>>>> | procedure documented at
>>>> | <https://BrownMath.com/general/10tip.htm#LegacyDrivers>
>>>> |
>>>>
>>>> That looks old. The nointegritychecks switch also doesn't work?
>>>>
>>>> You can also use the Windows Image Acquisition interface to
>>>> access a scanner, in place of TWAIN, but it's very unlikely that
>>>> your scanner supports it. WIA is supported back to XP SP1 but
>>>> I think device makers have to provide some kind of interface
>>>> for it.... Might be time to buy a new device. Though I've noticed
>>>> that prices seem to be going up. My last two printer/scanners
>>>> were each about $80, as I recall. Almost as cheap as buying new
>>>> ink. But now they seem to start at about twice that price.
>>
>> I bought a printer. I used it for the purpose for which I bought it.
>>When I didn't use it for a while, the ink in the cartridges' nozzles
>>dried out and wouldn't get wet again no matter what I did.
>>
>> Replacement cartridges were £80 (over $100 at the time) so I didn't
>>buy any.
>>
>> When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
>>an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".
>>
>> Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.
>>
>> Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
>>new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
>>hundred quid or so.
>>
>> I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>>and I *still* can't print anything.
>>
>> Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
>
>
>You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
>a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
>choice.

Yerp. This is ever so true ... but ... it all comes down to money.
The very reason for the multiplicity of devices is that I didn't want
to spend more than the cost of a laser MFD every time I wanted to
print a few pages.

Yes, you're right, had I bought a laser in the first place, the toner
box would still have been nearly full even after all of those years
and it would still be functional and I would still be able to print
.... but ... I couldn't find a fully functional laser device for £14,
not even on sale.

When you don't have loads of money to spare, the Vimes Boots Theory
of Poverty is a vicious cycle. Things really *do* cost more for the
poor than they do for the rich.

Still, at least I now have a working MFD (apart from the printing
function) and two spares and I can always hunt around for a new one on
sale should I ever need to print a few pages. That would also give me
a chance to wander about the PC shops looking at the new kit. :)

Life, it's a funny old game. :)

Just as an aside, WWW.morgancomputers.co.uk are offering *FREE* laser
printers. All you have to do is agree to buy a supply of toner boxes.

For example:

https://www.morgancomputers.co.uk/product_detail/22295/Xerox-WorkCentre-6515DNI-Colour-Laser-Printer-2-Sets-of-IJT-Toners-1-Set-of-Xe

" The Deal:
IJT Toners are £179.80 for a set of 4
Pricing the Orignals @ the same value you get 3 Sets of 4 finishing
the deal @ £539.40"

(No, I don't work there nor have shares, I just thought it was funny
and I included the linky to save everyone else from searching.)

Gillette razors spring easily to mind. :)

Many years ago, I thought that would happen with printers and
ink-tanks. It makes me happy to see my prediction come true. :)

J.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 18:18:24 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:13:40 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On 2022-04-11 7:33 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 15:29:51 -0000 (UTC), Zaidy036
>>>> <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>>>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> | Canon never created digitally signed drivers for the LiDE 50 or 60
>>>>>> | scanner. I was nonetheless able to install the driver through the
>>>>>> | procedure documented at
>>>>>> | <https://BrownMath.com/general/10tip.htm#LegacyDrivers>
>>>>>> |
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That looks old. The nointegritychecks switch also doesn't work?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can also use the Windows Image Acquisition interface to
>>>>>> access a scanner, in place of TWAIN, but it's very unlikely that
>>>>>> your scanner supports it. WIA is supported back to XP SP1 but
>>>>>> I think device makers have to provide some kind of interface
>>>>>> for it.... Might be time to buy a new device. Though I've noticed
>>>>>> that prices seem to be going up. My last two printer/scanners
>>>>>> were each about $80, as I recall. Almost as cheap as buying new
>>>>>> ink. But now they seem to start at about twice that price.
>>>>
>>>> I bought a printer. I used it for the purpose for which I bought it.
>>>> When I didn't use it for a while, the ink in the cartridges' nozzles
>>>> dried out and wouldn't get wet again no matter what I did.
>>>>
>>>> Replacement cartridges were £80 (over $100 at the time) so I didn't
>>>> buy any.
>>>>
>>>> When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
>>>> an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".
>>>>
>>>> Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.
>>>>
>>>> Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
>>>> new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
>>>> hundred quid or so.
>>>>
>>>> I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>>>> and I *still* can't print anything.
>>>>
>>>> Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
>>>
>>>
>>> You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
>>> a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
>>> choice.
>>>
>>
>>You can say that again,
>
>
>OK, I will. You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet
>printers and buy a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are
>a much better choice.

I agree with both of you.

Unfortunately, bank accounts do not. :)

Up-front, laser have always been more expensive and toner boxes are
worse than ink-tanks.

Vimes's Boots Theory of Economic Disadvantages. Being poor really is
more expensive.

J.

>
>
>> I have had my Okidata c5150n color laser going
>>on 15 years with thousands and thousands of black and white and color
>>pages and it's still going strong. Wouldn't have an inkjet if you gave
>>it to me.
>>
>>Rene

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:01:01 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>
>> Okidata c5150n
>
>The latest driver Okidata provide works under Windows 7. So, after
>Windows 8, 10, 11, and whatever comes next, that 15-year old laser
>printer still running well is going to be a bitch to get working, if at
>all, on later versions of Windows. So, you still have a Win7 host in
>your intranet on which to use that printer, or using a VM with Win7 as
>the guest OS? What are your plans to keep that printer working through
>later versions of Windows?

My plans with "My Last Computer", a beast of a W7 box, was to die
finally before I needed a new one. That does not seem to be working
too well, to the endless disappointment of various sisters.

>
>
>Laser printers have a laser beam that tracks back and forth across the
>drum. LED printer, like your Okidata, use an array of LEDs that flash
>the entire line at once. So, are laser printers (using lasers) and LED
>printers both "laser" printers?
>
>I always thought flashing the entire line at once would allow faster
>throughput. There's the time to flash a complete line, or the time to
>run a laser beam across the drum. Seems LEDs would be inherently
>faster, but I don't know the rate at which the LEDs can be flash to
>stabilize at a consistent light intensity. However, I thought laser
>printers produced sharper output. LED printers have a fixed resolution,
>but laser printers can vary the dot size to change resolution. The
>laser is consistent for output intensity versus the LED array (and 4 of
>them for color) can variance in the light output between the LEDs.
>
>https://www.oki.com/us/printing/
>"OKI Data Americas has discontinued the sales of all OKI-branded printer
>hardware in the United States, Canada, and Latin America."
>
>Found other articles that say Oki stopped selling hardware to North,
>Central, and South American markets as of March 21, 2021. Means getting
>consumables, especially Oki-branded, is going to get pricier as stock
>dwindles.
>
>https://www.keypointintelligence.com/media/2965/oki-revenue-by-regionc.jpg
>
>The Americas was only 6% of their sales.

Yerp. From what I read on the onward linkies, Oki are still selling
in Yurp, probably including breakaway UKland.

They don't explicitly *say* this but they do not deny it, either. :)

Politicians?

J.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:50:28 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 18:18:24 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:13:40 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 2022-04-11 7:33 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 15:29:51 -0000 (UTC), Zaidy036
>>>>> <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> | Canon never created digitally signed drivers for the LiDE 50 or 60
>>>>>>> | scanner. I was nonetheless able to install the driver through the
>>>>>>> | procedure documented at
>>>>>>> | <https://BrownMath.com/general/10tip.htm#LegacyDrivers>
>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That looks old. The nointegritychecks switch also doesn't work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can also use the Windows Image Acquisition interface to
>>>>>>> access a scanner, in place of TWAIN, but it's very unlikely that
>>>>>>> your scanner supports it. WIA is supported back to XP SP1 but
>>>>>>> I think device makers have to provide some kind of interface
>>>>>>> for it.... Might be time to buy a new device. Though I've noticed
>>>>>>> that prices seem to be going up. My last two printer/scanners
>>>>>>> were each about $80, as I recall. Almost as cheap as buying new
>>>>>>> ink. But now they seem to start at about twice that price.
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought a printer. I used it for the purpose for which I bought it.
>>>>> When I didn't use it for a while, the ink in the cartridges' nozzles
>>>>> dried out and wouldn't get wet again no matter what I did.
>>>>>
>>>>> Replacement cartridges were £80 (over $100 at the time) so I didn't
>>>>> buy any.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
>>>>> an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
>>>>> new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
>>>>> hundred quid or so.
>>>>>
>>>>> I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>>>>> and I *still* can't print anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
>>>> a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
>>>> choice.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You can say that again,
>>
>>
>>OK, I will. You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet
>>printers and buy a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are
>>a much better choice.
>
> I agree with both of you.
>
> Unfortunately, bank accounts do not. :)

But I disagree with that. Yes, the up front cost of a laser printer is
usually higher than hat of an inkjet, but the cost of consumables is
much less, so laser printers are less expensive in the long run.

And B&W laser printers are not that expensive, and meet many peoples'
needs. I use a B&W laser, a Brother HL-L2300D, for which I paid
something like $80, I've been very happy with it.

>
> Up-front, laser have always been more expensive and toner boxes are
>worse than ink-tanks.
>
> Vimes's Boots Theory of Economic Disadvantages. Being poor really is
>more expensive.
>
> J.
>
>>
>>
>>> I have had my Okidata c5150n color laser going
>>>on 15 years with thousands and thousands of black and white and color
>>>pages and it's still going strong. Wouldn't have an inkjet if you gave
>>>it to me.
>>>
>>>Rene

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:57:33 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:01:01 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>>Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>
>>> Okidata c5150n
>>
>>The latest driver Okidata provide works under Windows 7. So, after
>>Windows 8, 10, 11, and whatever comes next, that 15-year old laser
>>printer still running well is going to be a bitch to get working, if at
>>all, on later versions of Windows. So, you still have a Win7 host in
>>your intranet on which to use that printer, or using a VM with Win7 as
>>the guest OS? What are your plans to keep that printer working through
>>later versions of Windows?
>
> My plans with "My Last Computer", a beast of a W7 box, was to die
>finally before I needed a new one. That does not seem to be working
>too well, to the endless disappointment of various sisters.

My current computer, built last October, is a high-powered Windows 11
computer. It's nor exactly a plan, but since I'm 84, there's a good
chance that it will be the last computer I ever buy.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 at 13:47:03, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:33:43 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
[]
>>> When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
>>>an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".
>>>
>>> Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.
>>>
>>> Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
>>>new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
>>>hundred quid or so.
>>>
>>> I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>>>and I *still* can't print anything.
>>>
>>> Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
>>
>>
>>You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
>>a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
>>choice.
>
> Yerp. This is ever so true ... but ... it all comes down to money.
>The very reason for the multiplicity of devices is that I didn't want
>to spend more than the cost of a laser MFD every time I wanted to
>print a few pages.
>
> Yes, you're right, had I bought a laser in the first place, the toner
>box would still have been nearly full even after all of those years
>and it would still be functional and I would still be able to print
>... but ... I couldn't find a fully functional laser device for £14,
>not even on sale.
>
> When you don't have loads of money to spare, the Vimes Boots Theory
>of Poverty is a vicious cycle. Things really *do* cost more for the
>poor than they do for the rich.

After at least two ink MFPs failed on me through lack of use (a Brother
- I like Brother - and an EPSON), I bought a _second-hand_ laser printer
- with some part-used toners; it cost me 25 pounds. It's a big thing -
about a two foot cube, and I'm not sure I could lift it again now; I
chose it because it can do double-sided and booklet (OK, I know the
latter is in theory doable in software). It's a Samsung CLP-775. OK, the
toner carts cost about 30. I have drivers for 7 (mine) and 10 (found for
me by the council IT person who provided the council laptop).
>
> Still, at least I now have a working MFD (apart from the printing
>function)

If it doesn't print, is it an MFD? It's just a big scanner, isn't it?

> and two spares and I can always hunt around for a new one on
>sale should I ever need to print a few pages. That would also give me
>a chance to wander about the PC shops looking at the new kit. :)

That's a bit depressing these days, I find. Since - in UK - it basically
means a branch of Currys/PCWorld, in most towns.
>
> Life, it's a funny old game. :)
>
Most of the time preferable to the alternative, though ...
>
>
> Just as an aside, WWW.morgancomputers.co.uk are offering *FREE* laser

I remember when they were a good source of end-of-line stuff, at good
prices. (They even had a real branch, just east of Oxford Street
opposite a Jessops.) Then I think they folded in the form they were, and
someone bought the name.

>printers. All you have to do is agree to buy a supply of toner boxes.
>
> For example:
>
>
>https://www.morgancomputers.co.uk/product_detail/22295/Xerox-WorkCentre-
>6515DNI-Colour-Laser-Printer-2-Sets-of-IJT-Toners-1-Set-of-Xe
>
>" The Deal:
>IJT Toners are £179.80 for a set of 4
>
>Pricing the Orignals @ the same value you get 3 Sets of 4 finishing
>the deal @ £539.40"
>
> (No, I don't work there nor have shares, I just thought it was funny
>and I included the linky to save everyone else from searching.)
>
(-:
>
> Gillette razors spring easily to mind. :)
>
> Many years ago, I thought that would happen with printers and
>ink-tanks. It makes me happy to see my prediction come true. :)
>
I think it came true some years ago! And they keep changing the models
so you can't keep cartridges (and putting increasingly complex chips in
the cartridges to stop the compatible makers). Though I think the razor
manufacturers do something similar these days - how many blades is the
norm now, five?; I don't know as I'm a beardy.
> J.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Practicall every British actor with a bus pass is in there ...
Barry Norman (on "The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel" [2011]), RT 2015/12/12-18

Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote:
> On 2022-04-11 9:01 p.m., VanguardLH wrote:
> > Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> >
> >> Okidata c5150n
> >
> > The latest driver Okidata provide works under Windows 7. So, after
> > Windows 8, 10, 11, and whatever comes next, that 15-year old laser
> > printer still running well is going to be a bitch to get working, if at
> > all, on later versions of Windows. So, you still have a Win7 host in
> > your intranet on which to use that printer, or using a VM with Win7 as
> > the guest OS? What are your plans to keep that printer working through
> > later versions of Windows?
>
> Surprise for you VangardLH That printer has worked flawlessly in all
> versions of Windows incluing 7, 8, 8.1, 10 and 11 using the same
> drivers (C51200GDEA.exe) since I bought it in 2007, All with full OKI
> features, Okidata Know how to write drivers, It is also working in
> Linux Mint 20.3 and works in Puppy and MXlinux, all using Foomatic2
> drivers .

And even if the Okidata drivers didn't work under 8, 10, 11, you could
always use a generic driver which speaks/understands some applicable
level of (HP) PCL* (Printer Command Language). Yes, maybe some exotic
vendor-specific function wouldn't work, but all normal printing
functions would work.

Bottom line: Getting a working printer driver has been a non-issue for
several (3+) decades, thanks to this (de facto) industry standard.

'Printer Command Language'
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_Command_Language>

[...]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 at 19:21:43, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
[]
> Bottom line: Getting a working printer driver has been a non-issue for
>several (3+) decades, thanks to this (de facto) industry standard.
>
>'Printer Command Language'
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_Command_Language>
>
>[...]

What percentage of models - and of printers (not the same answer as
there may be more, or fewer, sold of the models that do/do not) support
PCL?

It's like the same claim for Postscript.

Even if a model does support PCL or Postscript, there's still the matter
of getting it over USB or whatever interface is used: it can be argued
that that's not really a driver matter, but from the average user's POV,
it in effect is.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Everybody has the right to their own personal opinions. But nobody has a
right to their own personal facts. The world just doesn't work that way.
--scott (Dorsey, 2021-10-10)

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 08:25:57 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 16:58:43 -0700, Stan Brown
> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 14:27:28 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm running a Canon LiDE 60 here. I installed it under Windows 10 and
> >> it now runs without a problem in 11. I don't remember doing anything
> >> special to get it to work.
> >>
> >> Telling you that doesn't help solve your problem, but it least lets
> >> you know that a solution is possible.
> >
> >Maybe it does help, Ken. I have an LiDE 50, but the only difference
> >between the two is that the 50 doesn't do some metric size of paper.
> >Is your Lide 60 driver installer somewhere I can grab it?
>
> Sorry, I don't remember where I got it. If you trust me, I'll be glad
> to e-mail you what I have.. Tell me whether to send it, and whether
> you run 32-bit or 64-bit Windows.

Thanks, Ken. It's 64-bit Windows 10. And my address in the From
header is real.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:33:43 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> > I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
> >and I *still* can't print anything.
> >
> > Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)

> You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
> a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
> choice.

I heartily endorse Ken's recommendation.

The per-page cost is lower, and they're usually faster.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 07:14:03 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:50:28 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 18:18:24 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:13:40 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2022-04-11 7:33 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 15:29:51 -0000 (UTC), Zaidy036
>>>>>> <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> | Canon never created digitally signed drivers for the LiDE 50 or 60
>>>>>>>> | scanner. I was nonetheless able to install the driver through the
>>>>>>>> | procedure documented at
>>>>>>>> | <https://BrownMath.com/general/10tip.htm#LegacyDrivers>
>>>>>>>> |
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That looks old. The nointegritychecks switch also doesn't work?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can also use the Windows Image Acquisition interface to
>>>>>>>> access a scanner, in place of TWAIN, but it's very unlikely that
>>>>>>>> your scanner supports it. WIA is supported back to XP SP1 but
>>>>>>>> I think device makers have to provide some kind of interface
>>>>>>>> for it.... Might be time to buy a new device. Though I've noticed
>>>>>>>> that prices seem to be going up. My last two printer/scanners
>>>>>>>> were each about $80, as I recall. Almost as cheap as buying new
>>>>>>>> ink. But now they seem to start at about twice that price.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bought a printer. I used it for the purpose for which I bought it.
>>>>>> When I didn't use it for a while, the ink in the cartridges' nozzles
>>>>>> dried out and wouldn't get wet again no matter what I did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Replacement cartridges were £80 (over $100 at the time) so I didn't
>>>>>> buy any.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
>>>>>> an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
>>>>>> new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
>>>>>> hundred quid or so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>>>>>> and I *still* can't print anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
>>>>> a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
>>>>> choice.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You can say that again,
>>>
>>>
>>>OK, I will. You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet
>>>printers and buy a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are
>>>a much better choice.
>>
>> I agree with both of you.
>>
>> Unfortunately, bank accounts do not. :)
>
>But I disagree with that.

As Jack said, "there is always one.."

>Yes, the up front cost of a laser printer is
>usually higher than hat of an inkjet, but the cost of consumables is
>much less, so laser printers are less expensive in the long run.

You even quoted the bit where I *said* this.

>
>And B&W laser printers are not that expensive, and meet many peoples'
>needs. I use a B&W laser, a Brother HL-L2300D, for which I paid
>something like $80, I've been very happy with it.

Monochrome does not suit my needs when I need to print coloured
thingies but this is moot as even monochrome lasers are mostly more
expensive *upfront* than are inkies.

>
>
>>
>> Up-front, laser have always been more expensive and toner boxes are
>>worse than ink-tanks.
>>
>> Vimes's Boots Theory of Economic Disadvantages. Being poor really is
>>more expensive.
>>
>> J.

I didn't snip the bit you also did not snip. :)

And now I'm done.

J.

>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have had my Okidata c5150n color laser going
>>>>on 15 years with thousands and thousands of black and white and color
>>>>pages and it's still going strong. Wouldn't have an inkjet if you gave
>>>>it to me.
>>>>
>>>>Rene

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 07:19:23 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:57:33 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:01:01 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>>Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okidata c5150n
>>>
>>>The latest driver Okidata provide works under Windows 7. So, after
>>>Windows 8, 10, 11, and whatever comes next, that 15-year old laser
>>>printer still running well is going to be a bitch to get working, if at
>>>all, on later versions of Windows. So, you still have a Win7 host in
>>>your intranet on which to use that printer, or using a VM with Win7 as
>>>the guest OS? What are your plans to keep that printer working through
>>>later versions of Windows?
>>
>> My plans with "My Last Computer", a beast of a W7 box, was to die
>>finally before I needed a new one. That does not seem to be working
>>too well, to the endless disappointment of various sisters.
>
>
>My current computer, built last October, is a high-powered Windows 11
>computer. It's nor exactly a plan, but since I'm 84, there's a good
>chance that it will be the last computer I ever buy.

Just to be argumentative, you do know that you *could* buy another
one today, yes? :)

Oh, so could I but I have a great dislike for Win-ten and 'leven so I
won't. My current Win-box is about the most powerful Win-7 thing I
could find so a "new" one would probably be a poor investment.

Still, no one in my family in the last century or so has lasted to 80
so the current box has a good chance of out-living me.

That is also my main excuse for not having a dog.

J.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 18:52:06 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 at 13:47:03, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote (my
>responses usually FOLLOW):
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:33:43 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>[]
>>>> When I needed to print something else, I bought a new printer (really
>>>>an MFD) with partially empty tanks. £14 on "sale".
>>>>
>>>> Again, the ink dried out after I didn't use it for a while.
>>>>
>>>> Again, years later, I needed to print something so instead of buying
>>>>new tanks, I bought yet *another* new printer. Again I saved most of a
>>>>hundred quid or so.
>>>>
>>>> I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>>>>and I *still* can't print anything.
>>>>
>>>> Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
>>>
>>>
>>>You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
>>>a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
>>>choice.
>>
>> Yerp. This is ever so true ... but ... it all comes down to money.
>>The very reason for the multiplicity of devices is that I didn't want
>>to spend more than the cost of a laser MFD every time I wanted to
>>print a few pages.
>>
>> Yes, you're right, had I bought a laser in the first place, the toner
>>box would still have been nearly full even after all of those years
>>and it would still be functional and I would still be able to print
>>... but ... I couldn't find a fully functional laser device for £14,
>>not even on sale.
>>
>> When you don't have loads of money to spare, the Vimes Boots Theory
>>of Poverty is a vicious cycle. Things really *do* cost more for the
>>poor than they do for the rich.
>
>After at least two ink MFPs failed on me through lack of use (a Brother
>- I like Brother - and an EPSON), I bought a _second-hand_ laser printer
>- with some part-used toners; it cost me 25 pounds. It's a big thing -
>about a two foot cube, and I'm not sure I could lift it again now; I
>chose it because it can do double-sided and booklet (OK, I know the
>latter is in theory doable in software). It's a Samsung CLP-775. OK, the
>toner carts cost about 30. I have drivers for 7 (mine) and 10 (found for
>me by the council IT person who provided the council laptop).

I'm not entirely fond of buying used kit. One can't know what the
other bugger did to or with it. It could be on some *list* of
undesirable objects in a dark vault somewhere. :)

>>
>> Still, at least I now have a working MFD (apart from the printing
>>function)
>
>If it doesn't print, is it an MFD? It's just a big scanner, isn't it?

Well, you are functionally correct, yes but it isn't a printer only
because I'm a cheap bastard and refuse to feed it. I *could* then it
would be but I probably never will.

As a scanner it is very good, though it is noisy.

>
>> and two spares and I can always hunt around for a new one on
>>sale should I ever need to print a few pages. That would also give me
>>a chance to wander about the PC shops looking at the new kit. :)
>
>That's a bit depressing these days, I find. Since - in UK - it basically
>means a branch of Currys/PCWorld, in most towns.
>>
>> Life, it's a funny old game. :)
>>
>Most of the time preferable to the alternative, though ...

I wouldn't know, I wasn't really aware of the last two times I
encountered the alternative. It was like a splice in a movie.

>>
>>
>> Just as an aside, WWW.morgancomputers.co.uk are offering *FREE* laser
>
>I remember when they were a good source of end-of-line stuff, at good
>prices. (They even had a real branch, just east of Oxford Street
>opposite a Jessops.) Then I think they folded in the form they were, and
>someone bought the name.

Oh, that is sad to hear. They stick in my memory because they still
send me catalogues every so often. I got one just the other week. Some
of their kit still seems quite affordable but I haven't bought any for
ages so I don't know about quality.

Nor have I looked at any other site to check whether their "free"
printers are worth the cost. For all I know they could be half the
price elsewhere.

>
>>printers. All you have to do is agree to buy a supply of toner boxes.
>>
>> For example:
>>
>>
>>https://www.morgancomputers.co.uk/product_detail/22295/Xerox-WorkCentre-
>>6515DNI-Colour-Laser-Printer-2-Sets-of-IJT-Toners-1-Set-of-Xe
>>
>>" The Deal:
>>IJT Toners are £179.80 for a set of 4
>>
>>Pricing the Orignals @ the same value you get 3 Sets of 4 finishing
>>the deal @ £539.40"
>>
>> (No, I don't work there nor have shares, I just thought it was funny
>>and I included the linky to save everyone else from searching.)
>>
>(-:
>>
>> Gillette razors spring easily to mind. :)
>>
>> Many years ago, I thought that would happen with printers and
>>ink-tanks. It makes me happy to see my prediction come true. :)
>>
>> J.
>>
>I think it came true some years ago! And they keep changing the models
>so you can't keep cartridges (and putting increasingly complex chips in
>the cartridges to stop the compatible makers). Though I think the razor
>manufacturers do something similar these days - how many blades is the
>norm now, five?; I don't know as I'm a beardy.

I went full-furry many years ago when I decided that slicing my face
up every day just so my bosses would dislike me less was dumb. I never
did learn how to shave without cuts.

Gillette was incredibly innovative when they started producing safety
razors with replaceable blades and I was sure *someone* would copy the
trick.

Like subscriptions for software, it's such an obvious source of
income.

J.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 14:06:12 -0700, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:33:43 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:20:26 +0100, John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>> > I now have three fully-working printers with scanners and faxy bits
>> >and I *still* can't print anything.
>> >
>> > Luckily, I haven't needed to for years. :)
>
>> You might want to do what I do. Stay away from inkjet printers and buy
>> a laser printer. As far as I'm concerned, lasers are a much better
>> choice.
>
>I heartily endorse Ken's recommendation.

As do I.

>
>The per-page cost is lower, and they're usually faster.

Often nicer and quieter, too.

J.