On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 07:57:22 +0100, J.O. Aho wrote:

>
> How does your /etc/fstab look like?
>

/dev/sda3 / ext3 defaults,noatime,nodiratime 1 0
/dev/sda6 swap swap defaults 0 0
/dev/sda5 /usr ext3 defaults,noatime,nodiratime 1 0
/dev/sda8 /opt ext3 defaults,noatime,nodiratime 1 0
/dev/sda7 /tmp ext3 defaults,noatime,nodiratime 1 0
proc /proc proc nosuid,noexec,nodev 0 0
sysfs /sys sysfs nosuid,noexec,nodev 0 0
devpts /dev/pts devpts gid=5,mode=620 0 0
tmpfs /run tmpfs defaults 0 0
devtmpfs /dev devtmpfs mode=0777,nosuid 0 0

--
Scratch your technical itch:
https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 09:41:10 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

>
> What is the full contents of /proc/mounts?
>

/dev/root / ext3 rw,noatime,nodiratime 0 0
tmpfs /run tmpfs rw,relatime,inode64 0 0
proc /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
sysfs /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
devtmpfs /dev devtmpfs rw,nosuid,relatime,size=8167508k,nr_inodes=2041877,mode=755,inode64 0 0
/dev/sda5 /usr ext3 rw,noatime,nodiratime 0 0
/dev/sda8 /opt ext3 rw,noatime,nodiratime 0 0
/dev/sda7 /tmp ext3 rw,noatime,nodiratime 0 0
devpts /dev/pts devpts rw,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000 0 0

--
Scratch your technical itch:
https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 17:15:56 +0100, J.O. Aho wrote:

>
> Add root=/dev/sda3 to the kernel options and you should have /dev/sda3
> mounted instead of /dev/root.
>

I have been using that option from time immemorial and only with
e/udev have I seen this problem.

/dev/sda3 is mounted by the kernel at boot or else my boot scripts
would not function.

These scripts run in user space and call udevadm to do a post-trigger
of the events already read by the kernel. It will produce the exact same
/dev tree that I could produce myself with static nodes. What a waste!

But it's no longer important. I can now use df to find how much space is left
on /dev/sda3.

--
Scratch your technical itch:
https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

On 11/29/2021 03:40 PM, Diego Garcia wrote:

> <snip> courtesy of
> the GNOME/freedesktop faggots, does this lunacy prevail.
>

Intolerant. Hostile. Homophobic.

On 11/30/21 19:54, stepore wrote:
> On 11/29/2021 03:40 PM, Diego Garcia wrote:
>
>> <snip> courtesy of
>> the GNOME/freedesktop faggots, does this lunacy prevail.
>>
>
> Intolerant. Hostile. Homophobic.

Very likely but at least he is against systemd so he is not
totally depraved and void of human feelings.

bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
and a minor case of hypergraphia

On 30.11.2021 at 20:21, Bobbie Sellers scribbled:

> On 11/30/21 19:54, stepore wrote:
>
> > On 11/29/2021 03:40 PM, Diego Garcia wrote:
> >
> >> <snip> courtesy of the GNOME/freedesktop faggots, does this lunacy
> >> prevail.
> >
> > Intolerant. Hostile. Homophobic.
>
> Very likely but at least he is against systemd so he is not
> totally depraved and void of human feelings.

Isn't your condemnation of systemd — especially when you've never used
it and/or studied its methodology — equally intolerant and prejudiced?
;)

Parroting someone else's opinion without doing one's homework is easy,
and I too have been guilty of that in the past, including when it came
to systemd. But I studied it, I discovered its merits, and I
decided to give it a chance.

And now that I'm using it, I can find nothing about sysvinit that would
ever make me want to go back to it. Besides, sysvinit is no longer
being maintained — it's effectively abandonware — while systemd is.
And you don't have to use all of it; you only use the parts that you
like, and you disable and/or mask what you don't like.

--
With respect,
= Aragorn

On 11/30/21 21:39, Aragorn wrote:
> On 30.11.2021 at 20:21, Bobbie Sellers scribbled:
>
>> On 11/30/21 19:54, stepore wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/29/2021 03:40 PM, Diego Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>>> <snip> courtesy of the GNOME/freedesktop faggots, does this lunacy
>>>> prevail.
>>>
>>> Intolerant. Hostile. Homophobic.
>>
>> Very likely but at least he is against systemd so he is not
>> totally depraved and void of human feelings.
>
> Isn't your condemnation of systemd — especially when you've never used
> it and/or studied its methodology — equally intolerant and prejudiced?
> ;)

Oh i used it myself for a while using Mageia a few years back. While my
favorite system was still figuring out it could use UEFI or at
least EFI.

>
> Parroting someone else's opinion without doing one's homework is easy,
> and I too have been guilty of that in the past, including when it came
> to systemd. But I studied it, I discovered its merits, and I
> decided to give it a chance.

Good for you.
>
> And now that I'm using it, I can find nothing about sysvinit that would
> ever make me want to go back to it. Besides, sysvinit is no longer
> being maintained — it's effectively abandonware — while systemd is.
> And you don't have to use all of it; you only use the parts that you
> like, and you disable and/or mask what you don't like.
>
There are other startup tools, Ask Dr.Klaus Knopper of Knoppix
renown as he has recently(?) written his own tool. A few others around.
I checked the package list on 4MLinux 38 earlier today and could not
find the name of a package that I could recognize as startup. But I bet
that it boots up on schedule when the ISO is written to a drive properly.

There are a lot of people who feel negatively toward systemd, and other
parts for some standard distributions. I have never seen a
Gnome since 2.4 that I liked. Reading the about latest versions does
not improve my opinion. I really hated to have to use the old Ubuntu
desktop environment and I had to try to fix it for people who had not
kept up with the evolution of Ubuntu using antique versions that were
past being up-date-able. I prefer KDE as it has been and consider Mate
to be my second choice. My preferences in desktops and how they work
matured with Amiga OS 2.1 before we all had to get on the damned Internet.
And thank you, systvinit seems to be mature and works
just fine. I boot up this machine every day and somehow against all
odds considering how badly I can screw up a good install, it starts.

bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
and a minor case of hypergraphia

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

Diego Garcia <dg@chaotic.info> writes:
> Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> Every user should have his own personal distro.
>>
>> That would be impractical for most users and a ridiculous waste of time
>> and effort for the rest.
>>
>
> Not so.
>
> Once the initial phase of customization is complete, maintenance
> becomes very easy provided one uses an automated build system such
> as Gentoo Portage or Pauludis which will keep track of all dependencies.

Sounds more like using Gentoo and making grandiose claims about it than
maintaining a personal distribution.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 19:54:29 -0800, stepore wrote:

> On 11/29/2021 03:40 PM, Diego Garcia wrote:
>
>> <snip> courtesy of
>> the GNOME/freedesktop faggots, does this lunacy prevail.
>>
>
> Intolerant. Hostile. Homophobic.
>

That statement was a deliberate test. Sophisticated people will be able
to see beyond those meaningless garnishments and grasp the true
meaning.

YOU failed.

YOU are probably 5% Linux and 95% Mickeysoft anyway.

--
Scratch your technical itch:
https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

On 30/11/2021 19:42, Diego Garcia wrote:
> I devote about 30 minutes maximum each week in maintaining my custom
> "distro."

I devote less than 30 minutes a year.

--
“People believe certain stories because everyone important tells them,
and people tell those stories because everyone important believes them.
Indeed, when a conventional wisdom is at its fullest strength, one’s
agreement with that conventional wisdom becomes almost a litmus test of
one’s suitability to be taken seriously.”

Paul Krugman

On 01/12/2021 05:39, Aragorn wrote:
> when it came
> to systemd. But I studied it, I discovered its merits, and I
> decided to give it a chance.
>
> And now that I'm using it, I can find nothing about sysvinit that would
> ever make me want to go back to it. Besides, sysvinit is no longer
> being maintained — it's effectively abandonware — while systemd is.
> And you don't have to use all of it; you only use the parts that you
> like, and you disable and/or mask what you don't like.

Indeed. once maintenance switches from keeping sysvinit going and
transferring to finding all the issues Poettering was too arrogant to
fix himself, as with many other Great Mistakes (PostScript, X windows,
VHS and so on) it is easier to go with the sub optimal solution, simply
because it is at least being maintained.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> writes:

> On 11/30/21 21:39, Aragorn wrote:
>> On 30.11.2021 at 20:21, Bobbie Sellers scribbled:
>>
>>> On 11/30/21 19:54, stepore wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/29/2021 03:40 PM, Diego Garcia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <snip> courtesy of the GNOME/freedesktop faggots, does this lunacy
>>>>> prevail.
>>>>
>>>> Intolerant. Hostile. Homophobic.
>>>
>>> Very likely but at least he is against systemd so he is not
>>> totally depraved and void of human feelings.
>> Isn't your condemnation of systemd — especially when you've never
>> used
>> it and/or studied its methodology — equally intolerant and prejudiced?
>> ;)
>
> Oh i used it myself for a while using Mageia a few years
> back. While my favorite system was still figuring out it could
> use UEFI or at
> least EFI.
>
>> Parroting someone else's opinion without doing one's homework is
>> easy,
>> and I too have been guilty of that in the past, including when it came
>> to systemd. But I studied it, I discovered its merits, and I
>> decided to give it a chance.
>
> Good for you.
>
>> And now that I'm using it, I can find nothing about sysvinit that
>> would
>> ever make me want to go back to it. Besides, sysvinit is no longer
>> being maintained — it's effectively abandonware — while systemd is.
>> And you don't have to use all of it; you only use the parts that you
>> like, and you disable and/or mask what you don't like.
>>
>
> There are other startup tools, [snip]

Really? That's the basis of your unwarranted condemnation of systemd?

I suggest you do like Aragorn has done. Study the design and come back
and tell us what you would do differently.

IMO, the design is near optimal.

Show us how your design (which doesn't use single flat files, one per
service) is better.

--
Dan Espen

On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 22:16:50 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

>
> There are other startup tools,
>

Indeed there are. But the mainstream distros, and their sheepish followers,
completely ignore them. Without recognition and support these alternatives
may just wither on the vine.

>
> I have never seen a
> Gnome since 2.4 that I liked.
>

GNOME is just another option among many other options.

But the problem -- and it is a VERY serious problem -- is that the
mainstream distros, and their sheepish followers -- act and believe
that GNOME is the only game in town. As a consequence everything
else is ignored by them.

I use FVWM3. It is a fantastic window manager and fulfills all of
my needs. But since libinput became the defacto input driver for
X, thanks to GNOME et.al., I have been having problems with mouse
scrolling (the problems are too complex to describe here.)

The short story is that the GTK+ folks won't even consider the issue
because they view GNOME, with its GTK+ foundation, to be the
only graphical environment that exists. For them there are no
alternatives to consider.

The same attitude is manifest at LibreOffice. They develop only
for GNOME/KDE and will dismiss anything else as belonging to a tiny
minority that is not worth their attention.

It is of course undeniable that IBM/RedHat has the goal of destroying
the variety within Linux in favor of unifying the interface with
systemd and GNOME. Their rationale is that more developers, and hence
more commercial applications, will be attracted to a nice, neat, and
unified interface.

Will this ever happen? It's not likely. Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc.
will never develop Linux versions, even with the butchery inflicted
by IBM/RedHat.

Diego Garcia <dg@chaotic.info> writes:

> On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 22:16:50 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>
>>
>> There are other startup tools,
>>
>
> Indeed there are. But the mainstream distros, and their sheepish followers,
> completely ignore them. Without recognition and support these alternatives
> may just wither on the vine.

Ridiculous.

I guess those distro makers weren't so sheepish when they abandoned
decades old sysvinit and moved to something demonstrably better.

--
Dan Espen

On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 09:38:59 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

>
> I guess those distro makers weren't so sheepish when they abandoned
> decades old sysvinit and moved to something demonstrably better.
>

It sounds like the argument put forth by Steve Ballmer, of Mickeysoft
fame, that Linux is based a thirty-year-old OS known as Unix and is therefore
no good. (And lots of people were actually convinced!)

But I am not going to get sucked into a hopeless argumentative whirlpool
about systemd. GNU/Linux was made to be highly customizable and to fit
many different scenarios from supercomputers to toasters. As such,
to demand that GNU/Linux converge toward a single way of doing things
is preposterous.

On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 12:59:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>
> I devote less than 30 minutes a year.
>

Congrats.

In exchange you get an OS that is semi-crippled with security features
and totally lacking in optimization and that performs at least 30% slower.

That may not be an issue for most but I would rather wait 3 hours
as opposed to 6 hours for my Povray animations to finish.

On 12/1/21 05:30, Dan Espen wrote:
> Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> writes:
>
>> On 11/30/21 21:39, Aragorn wrote:
>>> On 30.11.2021 at 20:21, Bobbie Sellers scribbled:
>>>
>>>> On 11/30/21 19:54, stepore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/29/2021 03:40 PM, Diego Garcia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip> courtesy of the GNOME/freedesktop faggots, does this lunacy
>>>>>> prevail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Intolerant. Hostile. Homophobic.
>>>>
>>>> Very likely but at least he is against systemd so he is not
>>>> totally depraved and void of human feelings.
>>> Isn't your condemnation of systemd — especially when you've never
>>> used
>>> it and/or studied its methodology — equally intolerant and prejudiced?
>>> ;)
>>
>> Oh i used it myself for a while using Mageia a few years
>> back. While my favorite system was still figuring out it could
>> use UEFI or at
>> least EFI.
>>
>>> Parroting someone else's opinion without doing one's homework is
>>> easy,
>>> and I too have been guilty of that in the past, including when it came
>>> to systemd. But I studied it, I discovered its merits, and I
>>> decided to give it a chance.
>>
>> Good for you.
>>
>>> And now that I'm using it, I can find nothing about sysvinit that
>>> would
>>> ever make me want to go back to it. Besides, sysvinit is no longer
>>> being maintained — it's effectively abandonware — while systemd is.
>>> And you don't have to use all of it; you only use the parts that you
>>> like, and you disable and/or mask what you don't like.
>>>
>>
>> There are other startup tools, [snip]
>
> Really? That's the basis of your unwarranted condemnation of systemd?
>
> I suggest you do like Aragorn has done. Study the design and come back
> and tell us what you would do differently.
>
> IMO, the design is near optimal.
>
> Show us how your design (which doesn't use single flat files, one per
> service) is better.
>

I don't have to show you anything to justify my personal opinion
based on my personal opinion. You as well don't have to show me
anything to justify your personal opinion.

bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
and a minor case of hypergraphia

On 01/12/2021 15:15, Diego Garcia wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 12:59:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>
>> I devote less than 30 minutes a year.
>>
>
> Congrats.
>
> In exchange you get an OS that is semi-crippled with security features
> and totally lacking in optimization and that performs at least 30% slower.
>

No, I don't. The operating system is faster than the applications I run
and the networks I run them over.

> That may not be an issue for most but I would rather wait 3 hours
> as opposed to 6 hours for my Povray animations to finish.
>

I simply spent about $300 on an old HP desktop to get that sort of speed
increase.

$300 of my time is only a few hours

--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 16:09:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>>
>> In exchange you get an OS that is semi-crippled with security features
>> and totally lacking in optimization and that performs at least 30% slower.
>>
>
> No, I don't. The operating system is faster than the applications I run
> and the networks I run them over.
>

You are totally missing the fun factor.

Wouldn't you want to be able to show off to your friends and acquaintances
the fabulous GNU/Linux machine that you built from scratch all by yourself?

Do-it-yourself projects are supremely enjoyable and rewarding and GNU/Linux
is the do-it-yourselfer's dream.

There is no thrill in using a totally "canned" and off-the-shelf distro.

On 12/1/21 09:33, Diego Garcia wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 16:09:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>>
>>> In exchange you get an OS that is semi-crippled with security features
>>> and totally lacking in optimization and that performs at least 30% slower.
>>>
>>
>> No, I don't. The operating system is faster than the applications I run
>> and the networks I run them over.
>>
>
> You are totally missing the fun factor.
>
> Wouldn't you want to be able to show off to your friends and acquaintances
> the fabulous GNU/Linux machine that you built from scratch all by yourself?
>
> Do-it-yourself projects are supremely enjoyable and rewarding and GNU/Linux
> is the do-it-yourselfer's dream.
>
> There is no thrill in using a totally "canned" and off-the-shelf distro.
>

There you are incorrect, To get Linux running however on a new machine
is a thrill. To see my installation boot-up every day is a
thrill. While it may take more to thrill you but each time I see my
login requested I am happier.

bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
and a minor case of hypergraphia

On 01/12/2021 17:33, Diego Garcia wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 16:09:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>>
>>> In exchange you get an OS that is semi-crippled with security features
>>> and totally lacking in optimization and that performs at least 30% slower.
>>>
>>
>> No, I don't. The operating system is faster than the applications I run
>> and the networks I run them over.
>>
>
> You are totally missing the fun factor.
>
> Wouldn't you want to be able to show off to your friends and acquaintances
> the fabulous GNU/Linux machine that you built from scratch all by yourself?
>
Did that about 30 years ago

> Do-it-yourself projects are supremely enjoyable and rewarding and GNU/Linux
> is the do-it-yourselfer's dream.

You have no idea. I spent a large part of my working life turning dead
hardware into working computers.

These days I just want the bastards to work. I've got better things to do

>
> There is no thrill in using a totally "canned" and off-the-shelf distro.

There is, if you are building custom applications on top

>

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 11:29:52 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> To get Linux running however on a new machine is a thrill. To see
> my installation boot-up every day is a thrill. While it may take
> more to thrill you but each time I see my login requested I am
> happier.

That doesn't say a lot for the trust you have in your system!

On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 20:20:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>
> These days I just want the bastards to work. I've got better things to do
>
> There is, if you are building custom applications on top
>

A true craftsman has a deep respect and admiration for the quality
of his tools.

Maybe you create just using toolkits, like Mickeysoft .Net, and
cannot fathom the intricate infrastructure?

--
Scratch your technical itch:
https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 11:29:52 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

>
> To get Linux running however on a new machine
> is a thrill. To see my installation boot-up every day is a
> thrill. While it may take more to thrill you but each time I see my
> login requested I am happier.
>

Excellent!

Now your next step is to explore all of the configuration
possibilities and then begin to tweak and tweak and tweak.

Then read the many documents and tutorials available
on GNU/Linux fundamentals. Especially, the Linux From
Scratch documents will guide you.

After sufficient study, you will inevitably come to know
that GNU/Linux is quite tractable and that RedHat corruptions
like systemd are pure garbage.

Do not allow the blinded distro lackeys, who are abundant
on any forum, to influence your decision. These sheeple
do nothing other than freeload. They contribute nothing
beyond their own deluded bias.

Remember: GNU/Linux was created for computing freedom
and independence. Any distro that does not respect such
ideals should be shunned and buried.

--
Scratch your technical itch:
https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

On 12/1/21 14:29, mechanic wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 11:29:52 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>
>> To get Linux running however on a new machine is a thrill. To see
>> my installation boot-up every day is a thrill. While it may take
>> more to thrill you but each time I see my login requested I am
>> happier.
>
> That doesn't say a lot for the trust you have in your system!
>

I trust my system but I and my foolishness are harded to control.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com