A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
few weeks. Two questions:

1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
recent experience of getting this to work?

2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?

--

Phil, London

Philip Herlihy wrote:
> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
> few weeks. Two questions:
>
> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
> recent experience of getting this to work?
>
> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?

See:

<https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10>

or

<https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-21h2-download-media-creation-tool/>

When it asks for a licence key, skip that step - in my experience it
will activate itself automatically once connected to the internet.

--
Graham J

In article <to75oq$2aa7p$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J wrote...
>
> Philip Herlihy wrote:
> > A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
> > few weeks. Two questions:
> >
> > 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
> > circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
> > recent experience of getting this to work?
> >
> > 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
>
> See:
>
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10>
>
> or
>
> <https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-21h2-download-media-creation-tool/>
>
> When it asks for a licence key, skip that step - in my experience it
> will activate itself automatically once connected to the internet.

Thanks! Have you tried this since Windows 11 became widely available?

--

Phil, London

Philip Herlihy wrote:

[snip]

>
> Thanks! Have you tried this since Windows 11 became widely available?

Yes. I crerated a bootable CD of version 21H1 several months ago, and
used it about 3 weeks ago to re-install on a new SSD. Never needed the
licence key - but that particular PC had previously run W10 on the old
(failing) HDD so that may have been sufficient to allow activation.

Other machines I've upgraded in the past couple of years have been from
W7 and have activated OK.

--
Graham J

On 12/24/2022 9:28 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <to75oq$2aa7p$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J wrote...
>>
>> Philip Herlihy wrote:
>>> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>>> few weeks. Two questions:
>>>
>>> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>>> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
>>> recent experience of getting this to work?
>>>
>>> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
>>
>> See:
>>
>> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10>
>>
>> or
>>
>> <https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-21h2-download-media-creation-tool/>
>>
>> When it asks for a licence key, skip that step - in my experience it
>> will activate itself automatically once connected to the internet.
>
> Thanks! Have you tried this since Windows 11 became widely available?
>

I've done several of them. Works fine.

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:20:21 -0000, Philip Herlihy
<PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:

>A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>few weeks. Two questions:

Not being supported doesn't mean he can no longer run it; it means it
will no longer have updates. He can consider that a problem if he
wants to but he doesn't have to. He *can* continue to run 8.1, but he
should be sure to run a third-party anti-virus program that *is* kept
up to date.

In article <MPG.3e112b0ef2dc2f59989a32@news.eternal-september.org>, Philip
Herlihy wrote...
>
> In article <to75oq$2aa7p$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J wrote...
> >
> > Philip Herlihy wrote:
> > > A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
> > > few weeks. Two questions:
> > >
> > > 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
> > > circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
> > > recent experience of getting this to work?
> > >
> > > 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
> >
> > See:
> >
> > <https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10>
> >
> > or
> >
> > <https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-21h2-download-media-creation-tool/>
> >
> > When it asks for a licence key, skip that step - in my experience it
> > will activate itself automatically once connected to the internet.
>
> Thanks! Have you tried this since Windows 11 became widely available?

Worth a go then!

The wrinkle is that the machine is in Spain, with an inexpert user, and I'm in
the UK. But hey-ho - I've always relished a challenge!

--

Phil, London

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:58:45 -0000, Philip Herlihy
<PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:

>In article <MPG.3e112b0ef2dc2f59989a32@news.eternal-september.org>, Philip
>Herlihy wrote...
>>
>> In article <to75oq$2aa7p$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J wrote...
>> >
>> > Philip Herlihy wrote:
>> > > A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>> > > few weeks. Two questions:
>> > >
>> > > 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>> > > circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
>> > > recent experience of getting this to work?
>> > >
>> > > 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
>> >
>> > See:
>> >
>> > <https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10>
>> >
>> > or
>> >
>> > <https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-21h2-download-media-creation-tool/>
>> >
>> > When it asks for a licence key, skip that step - in my experience it
>> > will activate itself automatically once connected to the internet.
>>
>> Thanks! Have you tried this since Windows 11 became widely available?
>
>Worth a go then!
>
>The wrinkle is that the machine is in Spain, with an inexpert user, and I'm in
>the UK. But hey-ho - I've always relished a challenge!

How old is his computer? If it dates back to 8.1, it's likely that it
won't be compatible with 11.

In article <7q8eqht1smpilgmtqmnhcs0kut06mr4j1v@4ax.com>, Ken Blake wrote...
>
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:58:45 -0000, Philip Herlihy
> <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:
>
> >In article <MPG.3e112b0ef2dc2f59989a32@news.eternal-september.org>, Philip
> >Herlihy wrote...
> >>
> >> In article <to75oq$2aa7p$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J wrote...
> >> >
> >> > Philip Herlihy wrote:
> >> > > A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
> >> > > few weeks. Two questions:
> >> > >
> >> > > 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
> >> > > circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
> >> > > recent experience of getting this to work?
> >> > >
> >> > > 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
> >> >
> >> > See:
> >> >
> >> > <https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10>
> >> >
> >> > or
> >> >
> >> > <https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-21h2-download-media-creation-tool/>
> >> >
> >> > When it asks for a licence key, skip that step - in my experience it
> >> > will activate itself automatically once connected to the internet.
> >>
> >> Thanks! Have you tried this since Windows 11 became widely available?
> >
> >Worth a go then!
> >
> >The wrinkle is that the machine is in Spain, with an inexpert user, and I'm in
> >the UK. But hey-ho - I've always relished a challenge!
>
>
> How old is his computer? If it dates back to 8.1, it's likely that it
> won't be compatible with 11.

Still waiting to hear how old, but I agree that would be a long shot!

I'm still doing most of my work on a Dell Vostro 470 which has just turned ten
years old. It has an i7 processor, 18GB of memory, two SSDs and a spinner (for
one of the backups). It's easily fast enough for me, and still pleases me
daily with how quickly it boots to the desktop. I have almost no motivation to
upgrade to Windows 11, though I quite like the snap options, and tabbed file
explorer in W11. But because of the hardware requirements, like a lot of
perfectly decent equipment (probably millions of tons world-wide?) it will be
artificially made obsolete in October 2025.

--

Phil, London

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:30:52 -0000, Philip Herlihy
<PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:

>In article <7q8eqht1smpilgmtqmnhcs0kut06mr4j1v@4ax.com>, Ken Blake wrote...
>>
>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:58:45 -0000, Philip Herlihy
>> <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <MPG.3e112b0ef2dc2f59989a32@news.eternal-september.org>, Philip
>> >Herlihy wrote...
>> >>
>> >> In article <to75oq$2aa7p$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J wrote...
>> >> >
>> >> > Philip Herlihy wrote:
>> >> > > A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>> >> > > few weeks. Two questions:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>> >> > > circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
>> >> > > recent experience of getting this to work?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
>> >> >
>> >> > See:
>> >> >
>> >> > <https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10>
>> >> >
>> >> > or
>> >> >
>> >> > <https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-21h2-download-media-creation-tool/>
>> >> >
>> >> > When it asks for a licence key, skip that step - in my experience it
>> >> > will activate itself automatically once connected to the internet.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks! Have you tried this since Windows 11 became widely available?
>> >
>> >Worth a go then!
>> >
>> >The wrinkle is that the machine is in Spain, with an inexpert user, and I'm in
>> >the UK. But hey-ho - I've always relished a challenge!
>>
>>
>> How old is his computer? If it dates back to 8.1, it's likely that it
>> won't be compatible with 11.
>
>Still waiting to hear how old, but I agree that would be a long shot!
>
>I'm still doing most of my work on a Dell Vostro 470 which has just turned ten
>years old. It has an i7 processor, 18GB of memory,

18GB? That's a very unusual number. Are you sure it's not 16GB?

> two SSDs and a spinner (for
>one of the backups). It's easily fast enough for me, and still pleases me
>daily with how quickly it boots to the desktop.

I know that I'm in the minority, but I never care how long it takes a
computer to boot. Personally I power on my computer when I get up in
the morning, then go get my coffee. When I come back, it's done
booting. I don't know how long it took to boot and I don't care.

> I have almost no motivation to
>upgrade to Windows 11, though I quite like the snap options, and tabbed file
>explorer in W11. But because of the hardware requirements, like a lot of
>perfectly decent equipment (probably millions of tons world-wide?) it will be
>artificially made obsolete in October 2025.

Not really. As I said in another message, not being supported doesn't
mean you can no longer run it; it means it will no longer have
updates. You *can* continue to run 10, but you should be sure to run
a third-party anti-virus program that *is* kept up to date.

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:20:21 -0000, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>
> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
> few weeks. Two questions:
>
> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
> recent experience of getting this to work?
>
> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?

Or he could continue to use Windows 8.1. I don't understand why
people mentally equate "not supported" with "won't keep working".

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 10:44:28 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
> Not really. As I said in another message, not being supported doesn't
> mean you can no longer run it; it means it will no longer have
> updates.

And given the number of Microsoft updates that cause problems, plus
the number that fix "problems" that don't affect most people --
daylight savings time in the Maldives,(*) anyone? -- not getting
updates can be regarded as a good thing.

(*) I made that one up, but it's representative of the narrow
application of a lot of updates.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

Hello.

Philip Herlihy <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> schrieb

>A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>few weeks. Two questions:
>1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
>recent experience of getting this to work?

aroubnd 3 weeks ago I used a Win7 Key to activate a new Win10
Installation on a Notebook. So Win8.1 Key will also work on Win10.
And if the Hardware is new enough for Win11 even that works (in one of
my cases only after I activated the key before with new win10 on that
machine, deleted win10 and installed win11 new. The it activated
online with no problem).

>2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?

Yes.
but since an old OS may be loaded with much unnessecary stuff: make a
new installation.

Stan Brown wrote:
> Philip Herlihy wrote:
>> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>> few weeks. Two questions:
>>
>> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
>> recent experience of getting this to work?
>>
>> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
>
> Or he could continue to use Windows 8.1. I don't understand why
> people mentally equate "not supported" with "won't keep working".

There's one reason: FUD. But "not supported" isn't the end of the world.
Numerous people are still running Win7 and some are still running WinXP!

-p

On 2022-12-24 21:59, Piet wrote:
> Stan Brown wrote:
>> Philip Herlihy wrote:
>>> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be
>>> supported in a
>>> few weeks.  Two questions:
>>>
>>> 1)  The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>>> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago.  Does
>>> anyone have
>>> recent experience of getting this to work?
>>>
>>> 2)  Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to
>>> Windows 11?
>>
>> Or he could continue to use Windows 8.1. I don't understand why
>> people mentally equate "not supported" with "won't keep working".
>
> There's one reason: FUD. But "not supported" isn't the end of the world.
> Numerous people are still running Win7 and some are still running WinXP!

That's not wise for everybody.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 12/24/2022 10:58 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <MPG.3e112b0ef2dc2f59989a32@news.eternal-september.org>, Philip
> Herlihy wrote...
>>
>> In article <to75oq$2aa7p$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J wrote...
>>>
>>> Philip Herlihy wrote:
>>>> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>>>> few weeks. Two questions:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>>>> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
>>>> recent experience of getting this to work?
>>>>
>>>> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
>>>
>>> See:
>>>
>>> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10>
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> <https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-21h2-download-media-creation-tool/>
>>>
>>> When it asks for a licence key, skip that step - in my experience it
>>> will activate itself automatically once connected to the internet.
>>
>> Thanks! Have you tried this since Windows 11 became widely available?
>
> Worth a go then!
>
> The wrinkle is that the machine is in Spain, with an inexpert user, and I'm in
> the UK. But hey-ho - I've always relished a challenge!
>

Have the inexpert user do a full backup, such that Windows 8.1
can be restored if necessary. No OS installer is 100% safe,
and that's why you make a backup. I've lost around five OSes,
by not making backups :-/ Debian killed a couple of those.

And yes, this should work (Free Upgrade). Basically, you're running Setup.exe from the
inserted DVD, while Windows 8.1 is running. That's an Upgrade-In-Place.
The user programs and data are preserved. The SKUs should match.

8.1 Pro x86 --? Win10 Pro x86
8.1 Home x86 --> Win10 Home x86

8.1 Pro x64 --? Win10 Pro x64
8.1 Home x64 --> Win10 Home x64

Once the free license upgrade is stored on the Microsoft server,
you can install the OS cleanly by booting the DVD. You can
change bitness if you want (if the old install was x86, you
could clean install x64). You can even put two C: partitions
on the same hard drive (the first install which just upgraded x86,
the second install is the clean install C: x64 partition).

There are lots of options.

*******

For an inexperienced user.

1) The download page gives them a copy of MediaCreationTool.exe .
2) I believe one of the options, is to install over top of the
current OS, without creating a DVD. That's basically a download
that takes you straight to the install process (for better or worse).

Experienced users would just use the option to create an ISO,
as you can do just about anything with the ISO as starting materials.
But making the ISO, would then involve a little more work which
an inexperienced user might not like. The two steps above aren't
as efficient as I would like, but they could be simpler. The user
does not get a DVD to keep as a souvenir (which is important).

That's about the closest thing to "easy" for your user.
It generates the Windows 10 license (so if they want
to reinstall, there's no license key to write down).

They can still record the license key, depending on how
they got the license. If the machine came with OEM Windows 8,
then it likely has an MSDM key in the ACPI table. Such keys
cannot really get "lost" since they are in the firmware.

Machines older than that, there would be a COA sticker instead.
And that has "a license key worth keeping". If it has not
be scraped off or damaged by exposure to handling. There are some
laptops which kept the COA sticker in the battery bay,
to protect it from frictional damage.

Paul

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 22:14:11 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> Numerous people are still running Win7 and some are still running
>> WinXP!
>
> That's not wise for everybody.

The bad guys need a source of zombie machines to keep them in
business!

In article <88eeqh1la7888cpgisd5ji8nh9hanacucn@4ax.com>, Ken Blake wrote...
>
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:30:52 -0000, Philip Herlihy
> <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:
>
....
> >
> >I'm still doing most of my work on a Dell Vostro 470 which has just turned ten
> >years old. It has an i7 processor, 18GB of memory,
>
> 18GB? That's a very unusual number. Are you sure it's not 16GB?
>

Yes, 18 GB. As far as I remember I found I had 2 x 2GB cards spare, so I put
them in as well. One subsequently failed, so 18 GB it is.
....
>
> I know that I'm in the minority, but I never care how long it takes a
> computer to boot. Personally I power on my computer when I get up in
> the morning, then go get my coffee. When I come back, it's done
> booting. I don't know how long it took to boot and I don't care.
>
> > I have almost no motivation to
> >upgrade to Windows 11, though I quite like the snap options, and tabbed file
> >explorer in W11. But because of the hardware requirements, like a lot of
> >perfectly decent equipment (probably millions of tons world-wide?) it will be
> >artificially made obsolete in October 2025.
>
>
> Not really. As I said in another message, not being supported doesn't
> mean you can no longer run it; it means it will no longer have
> updates. You *can* continue to run 10, but you should be sure to run
> a third-party anti-virus program that *is* kept up to date.

I foresee that becoming a very common way of working after October 2025!
But antivirus isn't a panacea. After a while you'd want to be taking much more
care over what you connect to - and we're talking about an inexpert user here.

--

Phil, London

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 10:06:10 -0800, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:20:21 -0000, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>>
>> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>> few weeks. Two questions:
>>
>> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
>> recent experience of getting this to work?
>>
>> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
>
>Or he could continue to use Windows 8.1. I don't understand why
>people mentally equate "not supported" with "won't keep working".

Because it's a reasonable interpretation, if you don't know what it
really means. Microsoft does a poor job of making it clear.

On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 21:59:19 +0100, Piet
<www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid> wrote:

>Stan Brown wrote:
>> Philip Herlihy wrote:
>>> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>>> few weeks. Two questions:
>>>
>>> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>>> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
>>> recent experience of getting this to work?
>>>
>>> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
>>
>> Or he could continue to use Windows 8.1. I don't understand why
>> people mentally equate "not supported" with "won't keep working".
>
>There's one reason: FUD. But "not supported" isn't the end of the world.

Right.

>Numerous people are still running Win7 and some are still running WinXP!

Also right. But in my view, running older versions of Windows is
almost always a poor thing to do. It greatly limits what new hardware
you can install and also what new software you can install. Neither of
those is necessarily an immediate problem, but as time goes on, they
become more and more of a problem for most people.

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 16:01:09 -0000, Philip Herlihy
<PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:

>In article <88eeqh1la7888cpgisd5ji8nh9hanacucn@4ax.com>, Ken Blake wrote...
>>
>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 17:30:52 -0000, Philip Herlihy
>> <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> wrote:
>>
>...
>> >
>> >I'm still doing most of my work on a Dell Vostro 470 which has just turned ten
>> >years old. It has an i7 processor, 18GB of memory,
>>
>> 18GB? That's a very unusual number. Are you sure it's not 16GB?
>>
>
>Yes, 18 GB. As far as I remember I found I had 2 x 2GB cards spare, so I put
>them in as well. One subsequently failed, so 18 GB it is.

OK, thanks for the clarification.

>> I know that I'm in the minority, but I never care how long it takes a
>> computer to boot. Personally I power on my computer when I get up in
>> the morning, then go get my coffee. When I come back, it's done
>> booting. I don't know how long it took to boot and I don't care.
>>
>> > I have almost no motivation to
>> >upgrade to Windows 11, though I quite like the snap options, and tabbed file
>> >explorer in W11. But because of the hardware requirements, like a lot of
>> >perfectly decent equipment (probably millions of tons world-wide?) it will be
>> >artificially made obsolete in October 2025.
>>
>>
>> Not really. As I said in another message, not being supported doesn't
>> mean you can no longer run it; it means it will no longer have
>> updates. You *can* continue to run 10, but you should be sure to run
>> a third-party anti-virus program that *is* kept up to date.
>
>I foresee that becoming a very common way of working after October 2025!
>But antivirus isn't a panacea.

No, of course not.

>After a while you'd want to be taking much more
>care over what you connect to

Don't wait until support ends. That's should always be the case.

>- and we're talking about an inexpert user here.

Yes, riskier for them, but also even before support ends.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message
news:3m6k7jx1ut.ln2@Telcontar.valinor...

>> There's one reason: FUD. But "not supported" isn't the end of the world.
>> Numerous people are still running Win7 and some are still running WinXP!
>
> That's not wise for everybody.

True. And at the same time absolutily meaningless.

I can say that switching to a new iteration of Windows whenever it comes out
is "not wise for everybody". Which is also true, but also as meaningless.
:-)

I agree with Stan and Piet. Though the solution to their riddle is most
likely that users have no wish to think about something they regard to be an
appliance, and instead just follow what the companies preach is "best
practice" - even if its against their wallets and their control over whats
/supposed/ to be *their* machine.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

In article <to838k$2d9qr$1@dont-email.me>, Paul wrote...
>
> On 12/24/2022 10:58 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> > In article <MPG.3e112b0ef2dc2f59989a32@news.eternal-september.org>, Philip
> > Herlihy wrote...
> >>
> >> In article <to75oq$2aa7p$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J wrote...
> >>>
> >>> Philip Herlihy wrote:
> >>>> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
> >>>> few weeks. Two questions:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
> >>>> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
> >>>> recent experience of getting this to work?
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
> >>>
> >>> See:
> >>>
> >>> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10>
> >>>
> >>> or
> >>>
> >>> <https://pureinfotech.com/windows-10-21h2-download-media-creation-tool/>
> >>>
> >>> When it asks for a licence key, skip that step - in my experience it
> >>> will activate itself automatically once connected to the internet.
> >>
> >> Thanks! Have you tried this since Windows 11 became widely available?
> >
> > Worth a go then!
> >
> > The wrinkle is that the machine is in Spain, with an inexpert user, and I'm in
> > the UK. But hey-ho - I've always relished a challenge!
> >
>
> Have the inexpert user do a full backup, such that Windows 8.1
> can be restored if necessary. No OS installer is 100% safe,
> and that's why you make a backup. I've lost around five OSes,
> by not making backups :-/ Debian killed a couple of those.
>
> And yes, this should work (Free Upgrade). Basically, you're running Setup.exe from the
> inserted DVD, while Windows 8.1 is running. That's an Upgrade-In-Place.
> The user programs and data are preserved. The SKUs should match.
>
> 8.1 Pro x86 --? Win10 Pro x86
> 8.1 Home x86 --> Win10 Home x86
>
> 8.1 Pro x64 --? Win10 Pro x64
> 8.1 Home x64 --> Win10 Home x64
>
> Once the free license upgrade is stored on the Microsoft server,
> you can install the OS cleanly by booting the DVD. You can
> change bitness if you want (if the old install was x86, you
> could clean install x64). You can even put two C: partitions
> on the same hard drive (the first install which just upgraded x86,
> the second install is the clean install C: x64 partition).
>
> There are lots of options.
>
> *******
>
> For an inexperienced user.
>
> 1) The download page gives them a copy of MediaCreationTool.exe .
> 2) I believe one of the options, is to install over top of the
> current OS, without creating a DVD. That's basically a download
> that takes you straight to the install process (for better or worse).
>
> Experienced users would just use the option to create an ISO,
> as you can do just about anything with the ISO as starting materials.
> But making the ISO, would then involve a little more work which
> an inexperienced user might not like. The two steps above aren't
> as efficient as I would like, but they could be simpler. The user
> does not get a DVD to keep as a souvenir (which is important).
>
> That's about the closest thing to "easy" for your user.
> It generates the Windows 10 license (so if they want
> to reinstall, there's no license key to write down).
>
> They can still record the license key, depending on how
> they got the license. If the machine came with OEM Windows 8,
> then it likely has an MSDM key in the ACPI table. Such keys
> cannot really get "lost" since they are in the firmware.
>
> Machines older than that, there would be a COA sticker instead.
> And that has "a license key worth keeping". If it has not
> be scraped off or damaged by exposure to handling. There are some
> laptops which kept the COA sticker in the battery bay,
> to protect it from frictional damage.
>
> Paul

All good stuff - thanks everyone!

--

Phil, London

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 09:30:46 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 10:06:10 -0800, Stan Brown
> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:20:21 -0000, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> >>
> >> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
> >> few weeks. Two questions:
> >>
> >> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
> >> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
> >> recent experience of getting this to work?
> >>
> >> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
> >
> >Or he could continue to use Windows 8.1. I don't understand why
> >people mentally equate "not supported" with "won't keep working".
>
>
> Because it's a reasonable interpretation, if you don't know what it
> really means. Microsoft does a poor job of making it clear.

I suggest that they do exactly the job they want to do, to scare
people into "upgrading", subjecting themselves to all the additional
telemetry and advertising found in later versions.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 10:20:07 -0800, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 09:30:46 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 10:06:10 -0800, Stan Brown
>> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 15:20:21 -0000, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>> >>
>> >> A friend has belatedly woken up to the fact that his PC won't be supported in a
>> >> few weeks. Two questions:
>> >>
>> >> 1) The free upgrade to Windows 10 was withdrawn ages ago, but in some
>> >> circumstances continued to work until at least a year ago. Does anyone have
>> >> recent experience of getting this to work?
>> >>
>> >> 2) Depending on the hardware, is there a free option to upgrade to Windows 11?
>> >
>> >Or he could continue to use Windows 8.1. I don't understand why
>> >people mentally equate "not supported" with "won't keep working".
>>
>>
>> Because it's a reasonable interpretation, if you don't know what it
>> really means. Microsoft does a poor job of making it clear.
>
>I suggest that they do exactly the job they want to do, to scare
>people into "upgrading", subjecting themselves to all the additional
>telemetry and advertising found in later versions.

You're very likely right, but regardless of the reason, my point
remains that Microsoft does a poor job of making it clear.