I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
coaster now.
They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
using these days?

On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 00:02:21 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
>abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
>activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
>coaster now.
>They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
>year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
>using these days?

I use Macrium Reflect. I used the free version for quite a few years and I'd
recommend it if it was still available, but I switched to the paid version about
3 years ago, mostly to show my support for a solid piece of software.

gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
> abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
> activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
> coaster now.
> They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
> year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
> using these days?

I use Macrium Reflect 7.1 UEFI since 2018 and am quite happy with it.
All my drives are either nvme.2 or ssd. Don't know if Macrium has
support or not. Have never needed any support.

On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 00:02:21 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote as
underneath :

>I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
>abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
>activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
>coaster now.
>They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
>year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
>using these days?

Safest way if you want to continue with Acronis is to use the boot disk
iso, either on CD or make a usb. The modern Acronis versions get into
eveything (like AV) and you take a performance hit, difficult to clean
out too!. Macrium works but I found it a little easier to make mistakes
with and some USB backup/restores it cant do YVMD.. C+

In message <o458uit2kksc9ojkrl61oj8ojgr33epq48@4ax.com> at Sun, 3 Mar
2024 00:13:47, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> writes
>On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 00:02:21 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
>>abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
>>activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
>>coaster now.
>>They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
>>year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
>>using these days?
>
>I use Macrium Reflect. I used the free version for quite a few years and I'd
>recommend it if it was still available, but I switched to the paid
>version about
>3 years ago, mostly to show my support for a solid piece of software.
>
Seconded (or thirded, as another has endorsed it too). Versions 5 and 6
(possibly later too) will fit on a mini-CD. Version 5 worked up to a
version of Windows 10 about 3 years ago, then didn't; would still work
on 7, of course.

I'm a bit puzzled by your Acronis stopping working: did you not make a
boot CD (or USB stick)? That's what I did with Macrium (the free
version). If you have a bootable CD, then surely whatever _they_ do, it
won't stop working? Whether Macrium, Acronis, EaseUS (I think they do an
imager), or other.

But then I do my imaging by rebooting (or turning off) and booting from
the CD; OK, it takes a couple of minutes longer, but I feel it has a
better chance of imaging properly if the OS is not running. (Compared to
the time it takes to image the boot time is negligible anyway - though
that's not true of the version that _does_ work with 10.) Booting from
the CD also reassures me that the CD still works - just at imaging time,
rather than when I actually need it.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Society has the right to punish wrongdoing; it doesn't have the right to make
punishment a form of entertainment. This is where things have gone wrong:
humiliating other people has become both a blood sport and a narcotic.
- Joe Queenan, RT 2015/6/27-7/3

On 03/03/2024 05:02, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
> I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
> abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
> activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
> coaster now.
> They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
> year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
> using these days?

With both Linux & Windows, I split storage into two partitions, one for
the system and one for data, and the system partitions are backed up by
imaging software onto the data partitions, and the data partitions are
backed up by rsync or derivatives thereof onto the NAS, including any
new system partition images thereon.

With Linux, the system partitions are backed up by Clonezilla onto the
data partitions, which are then backed up by rsync onto the NAS.

Similarly, the Windows partitions are backed up by various versions of
Ghost onto the Data partitions, and thence by DeltaCopy - a cygwin
implementation of rsync - onto the NAS.

My earliest legacy Windows machines are running XP, and for those I use
Ghost v2003 on various USB sticks which boot into DOS-mode W98. The
process I created is entirely automated after some initial choices are
made during the boot menu, which allow imaging or cloning disks either
locally or over the network.

For Win7, I used to use the above XP system quite happily, but started
to encounter problems when either a new disk greater than 1TB was
installed, or a system partition was upgraded to Win10, and now I use
the Win10 variant below for Win7 system partitions as well.

For Win10 I've copied the 64-bit version of Ghost v11.5 and its
associated files into a folder on the Win10 installation media, and I
boot into the installation environment, choose 'R' for repair, and
thence into a command prompt to run Ghost from there. It's not as
conveniently automated, but works more reliably than the XP system for
disks greater than 1TB and for Win10, particularly in relation to the
problem outlined in the next paragraph.

WARNING 1: Windows 10 - I think, but it might have been one of the
versions intermediate between 7 & 10 - introduced a boot-time saving
feature whereby part of the system is cached, even when the PC is shut
down rather than hibernated. If you don't disable this, when you next
try to use Ghost, and maybe other imaging software, it complains that
the check flag is set on the NTFS system partition and advises you to
check the disk before imaging, but doing so might confuse Win10 on is
next boot, it might attempt to 'fix' the problem and break the boot
process. To backup reliably using Ghost and probably other imaging
software, you MUST disable this feature. I'm sorry that, having done
this for all my W10 builds some time ago, I can't remember further
details about how to do this, but, AFAICR it was from the older version
power-settings pages reached via Control Panel, not via Win 10s
new-fangled Settings option. I found the solution on the web though, so
others should be able to find it also.

WARNING 2: Also, if, like me, you back up onto the data partition, you
must NOT back up a hibernated Windows build, because when the normal
system boots back up, it will think the new image file is some sort of
corruption to the data partition, and try to 'fix' the problem. Even if
you don't backup to a data partition, I would advise always fully
shutting down a PC before imaging it, and never to use an image from a
hibernated PC unless extreme circumstances makes it necessary.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote

|I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
| abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
| activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
| coaster now.
| They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
| year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
| using these days?

I've used BootIt for many years. A long time ago I used
Partition Magic and Drive Image. Then Powerquest sold out to
Symantec and Symantec ruined it, as usual, turning Drive Image
into a .Net-based backup tool.

So at that point I went hunting. People don't pay much notice
to BootIt because it's $40, and most people refuse to pay for
software. But for something this important, I'm happy to pay.

BootIt does imaging, partitioning, BCD edit, on-disk file editing
from EFI partitions or for boot.ini in XP, and multi-booting. I
recently set up a new computer that I'm putting Win10 and
Suse Leap onto, dual booting.

Suse was a mess, first breaking secure boot with a faulty shim
file, then failing to install the boot files, saying it was unable to
find the EFI partition during install! But aside from that it worked
out fine. In fact, the BootIt developer made a video with exact
instructions on how to set it up. I also installed Xubuntu, but didn't
like it. Nevertheless, BootIt can boot it for me if I just add it to the
boot menu.

BootIt is very solid and the docs are good, if you need them, but
there's no handholding. You need to understand the basics. Most
other products, like Acronis, are designed to be incremental backup
utilities for people who don't and won't understand disk imaging.

I keep disk images on DVDs and USB sticks with all the software
installed and the system configured. I also keep copies on data
partitions. I do that for every computer, so that even sudden
death of both hard disks won't lose the system. And BootIt can be
booted from a CD or USB stick. Anything not happening to the BootIt
install partition can be done from the boot menu.

Most people seem to like Macrium free. That may work just as
well. I don't know. I've never tried it.

Char Jackson graced us with on 3/2/2024 10:13 PM:
> On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 00:02:21 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>> I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
>> abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
>> activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
>> coaster now.
>> They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
>> year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
>> using these days?
>
> I use Macrium Reflect. I used the free version for quite a few years and I'd
> recommend it if it was still available, but I switched to the paid version about
> 3 years ago, mostly to show my support for a solid piece of software.
>
I full heartedly agree the Char and others regarding the feature-rich
and well-supported Macrium Reflect. In the past I used Ghost and Acronis
for my backup needs but Reflect blows them away and, as others, while I
started with the free version, I happily opted to go with the one-time
payment for the registered version.

Paul has written extensively on this newsgroup on this jewel of a
product but alas, most of those threads are no longer available. Still,
I was able to find some of his discussion still active, below.

Ref: snews://news.eternal-september.org:443/tbeph9it5

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Sailfish graced us with on 3/3/2024 7:59 AM:
> Char Jackson graced us with on 3/2/2024 10:13 PM:
>> On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 00:02:21 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
>>> abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
>>> activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
>>> coaster now. They don't even sell a product to replace it other than
>>> some $50 a
>>> year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
>>> using these days?
>>
>> I use Macrium Reflect. I used the free version for quite a few years
>> and I'd
>> recommend it if it was still available, but I switched to the paid
>> version about
>> 3 years ago, mostly to show my support for a solid piece of software.
>>
> I full heartedly agree the Char and others regarding the feature-rich
> and well-supported Macrium Reflect. In the past I used Ghost and Acronis
> for my backup needs but Reflect blows them away and, as others, while I
> started with the free version, I happily opted to go with the one-time
> payment for the registered version.
>
> Paul has written extensively on this newsgroup on this jewel of a
> product but alas, most of those threads are no longer available. Still,
> I was able to find some of his discussion still active, below.
>
> Ref: snews://news.eternal-september.org:443/tbeph9it5
>
ugh! that link doesn't work, try searching on Reflect, looking for Paul
in the results and you find several replies still accessible.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 00:02:21 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

>I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
>abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
>activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
>coaster now.
>They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
>year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
>using these days?

I've been using DriveSnapshot for several years, and it has saved my bacon a number of times.

--
croy

On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 00:13:47 -0600, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>
wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 00:02:21 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>>I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
>>abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
>>activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
>>coaster now.
>>They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
>>year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
>>using these days?
>
>I use Macrium Reflect. I used the free version for quite a few years and I'd
>recommend it if it was still available, but I switched to the paid version about
>3 years ago, mostly to show my support for a solid piece of software.

Just don't ask the uSoft suits any questions about your paid version,
they'll want you to buy it again. I bought Macrium version 8 for its
encryption feature. I've tossed it and went back to the free version.

In message <us1sji$2gjd7$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 3 Mar 2024 08:05:51,
Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> writes
[]
> Most people seem to like Macrium free. That may work just as
>well. I don't know. I've never tried it.
>
>
I'd agree with that endorsement - but I suspect like most of the others
on here I've never given Acronis, EaseUS ToDo, or any of the others a
real go.

I have my drive partitioned into C: - which I leave for the OS and most
software - and D:, where I store all my data (except that created by the
few softwares that insist on using C:). My C: is 50.0 GB, of which 12.4
GB is still free. I have my external drive also partitioned into two -
on one of which I image C: (there's room for two or three such images)
with Macrium, the other I just copy-backup (alternating between two
folders) my D:. (I use FreeFileSync to do the copying, to save time.)

One thing I think none of the imagers - free or paid - have, is a sound
driver. Why would I want one? Well, for my blind friends (and many
others around the world), to give some speech output. The couple of
times they've needed to restore an image when I've not been with them,
have been for me a "good game", an expression those who know a certain
UK light entertainment TV prog. would recognise: using Skype via an
iPhone, with the iPhone propped up so that I could see the little
monitor they have (for the benefit of visiting sighted friends like me).
The 'phone was sideways on, and kept slipping ... and with her using a
mouse for the first time. (Yes, I think Macrium can be used entirely
from the keyboard - tabbing round etcetera - but.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We're not poor, we just don't have any money.
- Brenda Blethyn's mother quoted in RT 2021/8/28-9/3

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <o458uit2kksc9ojkrl61oj8ojgr33epq48@4ax.com> at Sun, 3 Mar
> 2024 00:13:47, Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> writes
> >On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 00:02:21 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >>I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
> >>abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
> >>activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
> >>coaster now.
> >>They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
> >>year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
> >>using these days?
> >
> >I use Macrium Reflect. I used the free version for quite a few years and I'd
> >recommend it if it was still available, but I switched to the paid
> >version about
> >3 years ago, mostly to show my support for a solid piece of software.
> >
> Seconded (or thirded, as another has endorsed it too). Versions 5 and 6
> (possibly later too) will fit on a mini-CD. Version 5 worked up to a
> version of Windows 10 about 3 years ago, then didn't; would still work
> on 7, of course.

> I'm a bit puzzled by your Acronis stopping working: did you not make a
> boot CD (or USB stick)? That's what I did with Macrium (the free
> version). If you have a bootable CD, then surely whatever _they_ do, it
> won't stop working? Whether Macrium, Acronis, EaseUS (I think they do an
> imager), or other.

> But then I do my imaging by rebooting (or turning off) and booting from
> the CD; OK, it takes a couple of minutes longer, but I feel it has a
> better chance of imaging properly if the OS is not running. (Compared to
> the time it takes to image the boot time is negligible anyway - though
> that's not true of the version that _does_ work with 10.) Booting from
> the CD also reassures me that the CD still works - just at imaging time,
> rather than when I actually need it.

I do this too. I avoid conflicts when OS is not running with a bootable media.
--
"You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?" --1 Corinthians 3:3 --Matthew 3:1-2. Ant is not a human!
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 00:18:10 -0600, Paul in Houston TX
<Paul@Houston.Texas> wrote:

>gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
>> abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
>> activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
>> coaster now.
>> They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
>> year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
>> using these days?
>
>I use Macrium Reflect 7.1 UEFI since 2018 and am quite happy with it.
>All my drives are either nvme.2 or ssd. Don't know if Macrium has
>support or not. Have never needed any support.

OK Thanks. Macrium it is. I liked Acronis until it stopped working but
they just don't want you using anymore, even if you paid for it.
The backup tool on the boot CD works so I have a fairly recent image
of my C: but I like it automatic.

gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 00:18:10 -0600, Paul in Houston TX
> <Paul@Houston.Texas> wrote:
>
>> gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>> I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
>>> abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
>>> activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
>>> coaster now.
>>> They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
>>> year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
>>> using these days?
>>
>> I use Macrium Reflect 7.1 UEFI since 2018 and am quite happy with it.
>> All my drives are either nvme.2 or ssd. Don't know if Macrium has
>> support or not. Have never needed any support.
>
> OK Thanks. Macrium it is. I liked Acronis until it stopped working but
> they just don't want you using anymore, even if you paid for it.
> The backup tool on the boot CD works so I have a fairly recent image
> of my C: but I like it automatic.

I used to use Acronis and liked it but it was from Western Digital and
WD spinner specific. So when I went to all solid state drives I tried
several other backups and settled on Macrium. I use it to image and
also clone. Especially on the work comps. If something goes wrong with
a drive I can swap to the clone and be back in operation in just a few
minutes.
I also use FreeFileSync for the data files. IMO, it's a great program, too.

In message <us3pb5$30l9r$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 4 Mar 2024 00:22:27,
Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> writes
>gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
[]
>> OK Thanks. Macrium it is. I liked Acronis until it stopped working
>>but
>> they just don't want you using anymore, even if you paid for it.
>> The backup tool on the boot CD works so I have a fairly recent image
>> of my C: but I like it automatic.

Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
to make space for the newest).

The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort
of checking, fine; automatic (assuming it actually makes a valid image
when running under Windows) certainly is less bother, as you can
schedule it to run when you're not using the machine, such as (for most
people) in the small hours. You're at the mercy of Windows updates, i.
e. the possibility that one of them will stop it working; this thread is
in the W7 newsgroup so that won't bother us, but 10 (and 11 and ...) may
be different.
>
>I used to use Acronis and liked it but it was from Western Digital and
>WD spinner specific. So when I went to all solid state drives I tried
>several other backups and settled on Macrium. I use it to image and

I think some of the make-specific versions work as long as there is one
drive from the qualifying manufacturer in the system - at least, that
used to be the case (I think); I don't know if it still is.

>also clone. Especially on the work comps. If something goes wrong
>with a drive I can swap to the clone and be back in operation in just a
>few minutes.

That does require you to have multiple drives. If some of your computers
are for your work, then that's reasonable.

>I also use FreeFileSync for the data files. IMO, it's a great program, too.

It's easy to use/understand. It _doesn't_ track renames (which I _think_
the Russinovitch one I used to use - SyncToy I think - did: but I got
the feeling that wasn't copying all files); if you rename a file (let
alone a folder/directory), FreeFileSync just deletes (the backup copy)
and recopies, rather than renaming the backup. But I'll continue using
it!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the
law." - Winston Churchill.

On 3/3/2024 12:02 AM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> I have been using Acronis 2015 for years but they seemed have just
> abandoned it. I am trying to reinstall and it just sits there with the
> activate button grayed out. There is no support and it is just a
> coaster now.
> They don't even sell a product to replace it other than some $50 a
> year subscription with a lot of stuff I don't want. What is everyone
> using these days?
>

There is some dribble here, but I presume you're stuck at some step in all this.

https://kb.acronis.com/ati2015/moveactivation

*******

The raymondcc site is gone. The backup comparison article, does not
compare the latest and greatest version of each (especially as Acronis
has gone off-track in terms of backups).

https://whatsoftware.com/10-commercial-disk-imaging-software-features-and-backuprestore-speed-comparison/

# There is a separate table of "free" programs. Three have incremental.

https://whatsoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/free_image_backup_results.png

AOMEI Backupper
EaseUs Todo Backup
Paragon Backup & Recovery (in business?)

Macrium (paid) has Incremental Forever. That's where it does Incremental
like others would do it, and it does some sort of Synthetic Full at
some point, to "restart the incremental sequence". That's so not
too many incrementals are stacked on top of one another. Personally,
I still like the idea of the occasional "real" Full, so I know I have
integrity at some point. I expect they do have that built into the
sequence at some point.

I just do the occasional full myself, as that's something I can do when
nothing else is going on.

The comparison article, likely uses hard drives, and may not be
indicative of what using a room full of SSDs could sustain. For example,
Macrium upper speed limit comes from whatever it uses for a checksum,
and the checksum process may not be running on a separate CPU core.
Same goes for compression processes. Tools which run their compressor
on other cores, may go faster (if you choose to compress your backups).

While the tables are arranged as if it's some sort of race, the way
the test is conducted, is not really emphasizing speed over everything
else, as you'd have to take I/O speed out of the picture, to see what
they're really capable of. The main purpose of those tables, is to
spot softwares which are "egregiously" slow, programs that don't have an
excuse for being that bad. DriveImage XML was originally a kind of "demo"
program, and it was unclear whether the author of it was serious
about going commercial, or in improving the program.

And no matter what you use, you need to test it. That means
having some scratch drives for test backup and test restore.
And seeing what has gone missing.

Paul

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote

| Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
| you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
| will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
| will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
| to make space for the newest).
| | The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
| don't know if it has stopped working.

Another issue is that that approach is not really disk image backup.
It's just backup, like the idea of a RAID array. If you get, for example,
a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
because you don't actually have a stored disk image. There's also
the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.

There's nothing wrong with RAID approach, but people shouldn't
mistake that for disk image backup.

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <us3pb5$30l9r$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 4 Mar 2024 00:22:27,
> Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> writes
> >gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> []
> >> OK Thanks. Macrium it is. I liked Acronis until it stopped working
> >>but
> >> they just don't want you using anymore, even if you paid for it.
> >> The backup tool on the boot CD works so I have a fairly recent image
> >> of my C: but I like it automatic.
>
> Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
> you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
> will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
> will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
> to make space for the newest).
>
> The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
> don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort
> of checking, fine; automatic (assuming it actually makes a valid image
> when running under Windows) certainly is less bother, as you can
> schedule it to run when you're not using the machine, such as (for most
> people) in the small hours. You're at the mercy of Windows updates, i.
> e. the possibility that one of them will stop it working; this thread is
> in the W7 newsgroup so that won't bother us, but 10 (and 11 and ...) may
> be different.

'automatic' is probably Scheduled Backups and for Scheduled Backups,
Macrium Reflect can send e-mail on Failure, Warning and Success, so I
don't see how that can result in "unless you check, you don't know if it
has stopped working". So unless Macrium Reflect stops working
alltogether, without any errors, I see no problem with 'automatic'.

[...]

Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
>
> | Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
> | you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
> | will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
> | will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
> | to make space for the newest).
> |
> | The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
> | don't know if it has stopped working.
>
> Another issue is that that approach is not really disk image backup.

Huh? Of course it's disk image backup.

> It's just backup, like the idea of a RAID array.

It's nothing like a RAID array, because a RAID array continuously
tracks changes. Image backup is point-in-time backup, not continuous.

> If you get, for example,
> a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
> because you don't actually have a stored disk image.

It seems you're assuming that the image backup is made to an internal
disk. That might be the case, but the OP (gfretwell@aol.com) hasn't
said he makes backup to an internal disk. For example I make image
backup to an external disk and that disk is stored offsite and swapped
with another disk. So my backup is protected against the scenario you
mention, but also against theft, fire, etc..

> There's also
> the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.

True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.

> There's nothing wrong with RAID approach, but people shouldn't
> mistake that for disk image backup.

I don't understand why you bring that up, because (AFAIK) nobody has
been talking about RAID.

In message <us4pvm.o9o.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Mon, 4 Mar
2024 14:39:48, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
>Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
>>
>> | Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
>> | you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
>> | will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
>> | will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
>> | to make space for the newest).
>> |
>> | The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
>> | don't know if it has stopped working.
>>
>> Another issue is that that approach is not really disk image backup.
>
> Huh? Of course it's disk image backup.

I agree.
[]
>> If you get, for example,
>> a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
>> because you don't actually have a stored disk image.
>
> It seems you're assuming that the image backup is made to an internal
>disk. That might be the case, but the OP (gfretwell@aol.com) hasn't
>said he makes backup to an internal disk. For example I make image
>backup to an external disk and that disk is stored offsite and swapped
>with another disk. So my backup is protected against the scenario you
>mention, but also against theft, fire, etc..
>
That does require manual moving about of discs - he wants something
automatic. But, as you say, he hasn't said it's to a disc in the same
machine as the one being backed up - it could be to a network drive, or
even a remote one.
>> There's also
>> the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.
>
> True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.

Indeed.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it's nice to look at and it makes you feel good, it's art. - Grayson Perry,
interviewed in Radio Times 12-18 October 2013

In message <us4muq.d9s.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Mon, 4 Mar
2024 13:48:04, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
>J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <us3pb5$30l9r$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 4 Mar 2024 00:22:27,
>> Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> writes
>> >gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>> []
>> >> OK Thanks. Macrium it is. I liked Acronis until it stopped working
>> >>but
>> >> they just don't want you using anymore, even if you paid for it.
>> >> The backup tool on the boot CD works so I have a fairly recent image
>> >> of my C: but I like it automatic.
>>
>> Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
[]
>> The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
>> don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort
[]
> 'automatic' is probably Scheduled Backups and for Scheduled Backups,
>Macrium Reflect can send e-mail on Failure, Warning and Success, so I
>don't see how that can result in "unless you check, you don't know if it
>has stopped working". So unless Macrium Reflect stops working
>alltogether, without any errors, I see no problem with 'automatic'.
>
I didn't know about its emailing abilities (or rather I'd forgotten
about them), but such an arrangement does still rely on you checking -
for the emails. I would also be concerned about the possibility of it
(or whatever's scheduling it) stopping as you describe.
>[...]
But we are all different. What works for me, you, the OP, etc., will all
be different in one way or another.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it's nice to look at and it makes you feel good, it's art. - Grayson Perry,
interviewed in Radio Times 12-18 October 2013

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <us4muq.d9s.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Mon, 4 Mar
> 2024 13:48:04, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
> >J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> >> In message <us3pb5$30l9r$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 4 Mar 2024 00:22:27,
> >> Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> writes
> >> >gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> >> []
> >> >> OK Thanks. Macrium it is. I liked Acronis until it stopped working
> >> >>but
> >> >> they just don't want you using anymore, even if you paid for it.
> >> >> The backup tool on the boot CD works so I have a fairly recent image
> >> >> of my C: but I like it automatic.
> >>
> >> Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
> []
> >> The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
> >> don't know if it has stopped working. If you're good at doing that sort
> []
> > 'automatic' is probably Scheduled Backups and for Scheduled Backups,
> >Macrium Reflect can send e-mail on Failure, Warning and Success, so I
> >don't see how that can result in "unless you check, you don't know if it
> >has stopped working". So unless Macrium Reflect stops working
> >alltogether, without any errors, I see no problem with 'automatic'.
> >
> I didn't know about its emailing abilities (or rather I'd forgotten
> about them), but such an arrangement does still rely on you checking -
> for the emails.

The emails will arrive in your Inbox. You *do* check your Inbox once
in a while, don't you!? :-) With something like Thunderbird, you can Tag
them with a colour, like nice flashy red. If that's not enough
notification, you might as well throw the whole thing out of the window!
:-)

> I would also be concerned about the possibility of it
> (or whatever's scheduling it) stopping as you describe.

For those kinds of things, you can make a 'watchdog' (for example a
..bat script). I have such a thing for a service which sometimes refuses/
refuses to start at startup.

> >[...]
> But we are all different. What works for me, you, the OP, etc., will all
> be different in one way or another.

Very true. You feel comfortable with your offline method. Good on you.

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <us4pvm.o9o.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Mon, 4 Mar
> 2024 14:39:48, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
> >Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> >> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
> >>
> >> | Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
> >> | you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
> >> | will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
> >> | will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
> >> | to make space for the newest).
> >> |
> >> | The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
> >> | don't know if it has stopped working.
> >>
> >> Another issue is that that approach is not really disk image backup.
> >
> > Huh? Of course it's disk image backup.
>
> I agree.
> []
> >> If you get, for example,
> >> a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
> >> because you don't actually have a stored disk image.
> >
> > It seems you're assuming that the image backup is made to an internal
> >disk. That might be the case, but the OP (gfretwell@aol.com) hasn't
> >said he makes backup to an internal disk. For example I make image
> >backup to an external disk and that disk is stored offsite and swapped
> >with another disk. So my backup is protected against the scenario you
> >mention, but also against theft, fire, etc..
> >
> That does require manual moving about of discs - he wants something
> automatic.

True, but that the backup phase is automatic, doesn't mean that the
moving about of disks can't be manual, i.e. the disk can be connected
(well) before the backup is scheduled and disconnected (well) after the
backup has run.

> But, as you say, he hasn't said it's to a disc in the same
> machine as the one being backed up - it could be to a network drive, or
> even a remote one.

Indeed, some of my backup (not image, but file-level) is done to my
NAS and some is done to The Cloud (Google Drive). Of course Newyana2's
example of a power surge could take out my NAS as well, but as we
haven't had any such power surges for some five decades, I think I'm not
going to worry to much about those! :-)

> >> There's also
> >> the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.
> >
> > True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.
>
> Indeed.
> []

On 3/4/2024 2:42 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <us4pvm.o9o.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> at Mon, 4 Mar
>> 2024 14:39:48, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes
>>> Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>> "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
>>>>
>>>> | Ah, "I like it automatic" explains why Acronis "stopped working" for
>>>> | you: I presume by "automatic", you mean it runs under Windows. (Macrium
>>>> | will indeed do that for you too, including - as I think most of them
>>>> | will, even the free versions - deleting the oldest image when necessary
>>>> | to make space for the newest).
>>>> |
>>>> | The trouble with relying on automatic is that unless you check, you
>>>> | don't know if it has stopped working.
>>>>
>>>> Another issue is that that approach is not really disk image backup.
>>>
>>> Huh? Of course it's disk image backup.
>>
>> I agree.
>> []
>>>> If you get, for example,
>>>> a power surge that takes out your drives then you're out of luck,
>>>> because you don't actually have a stored disk image.
>>>
>>> It seems you're assuming that the image backup is made to an internal
>>> disk. That might be the case, but the OP (gfretwell@aol.com) hasn't
>>> said he makes backup to an internal disk. For example I make image
>>> backup to an external disk and that disk is stored offsite and swapped
>>> with another disk. So my backup is protected against the scenario you
>>> mention, but also against theft, fire, etc..
>>>
>> That does require manual moving about of discs - he wants something
>> automatic.
>
> True, but that the backup phase is automatic, doesn't mean that the
> moving about of disks can't be manual, i.e. the disk can be connected
> (well) before the backup is scheduled and disconnected (well) after the
> backup has run.
>
>> But, as you say, he hasn't said it's to a disc in the same
>> machine as the one being backed up - it could be to a network drive, or
>> even a remote one.
>
> Indeed, some of my backup (not image, but file-level) is done to my
> NAS and some is done to The Cloud (Google Drive). Of course Newyana2's
> example of a power surge could take out my NAS as well, but as we
> haven't had any such power surges for some five decades, I think I'm not
> going to worry to much about those! :-)
>
>>>> There's also
>>>> the possibility of corruption or malware getting spread to backup.
>>>
>>> True, but that's the case for any kind of backup.
>>
>> Indeed.
>> []
No power surge? Then you are lucky. My UPS battery needed replacement
one afternoon and that night we had an electrical storm which must have
been close because the next morning I found my NAS non-responsive and
"fried". I had a copy of the last image on a portable HDD and it was
disconnected and in a safe place.