On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:14:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

>On 2023-03-15, maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-03-15, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Microsoft have never told the truth on system requirements:
>
>Or anything else, for that matter.
>
>>> "640k should be enough for anyone" - Bill Gates
>>
>> AFAIRemember, the early macs needed extra memory to actually do
>> anything,
>
>And said extra memory wasn't approved by Apple: "128K should be
>enough for anyone." But I do recall mention of the "Mac cracker"
>(a tool to open the case), plus instructions for soldering in
>extra memory chips to create a 512K "Fat Mac".

So that's what a Fat Mac was! I thought it was some sort of adapter card, but I
never actually had (or seen) a Mac of that vintage, so my assumption was way off
base.

>> and I doubt that "the juggler" demo was created in a Amiga 500
>
>Probably because the A500 didn't exist yet. :-)

Good point

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) writes:
>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:50:12 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) did=
> make
>me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:
>
>>"Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-fcd-this> writes:
>>> To: snipeco.2
>>>-=3D> snipeco.2 wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=3D-
>>>
>>> sn> OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32
>>>
>>> sn> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.
>>>
>>>
>>>Forte Agent and Eudora Pro 2.2 - that brings back memories. Clients =
>went
>>>all downhill from there... :)
>>
>>I'm still using xrn (1989).
>
>Pretty sure they didn't have a 64-bit client back then though ;)

There were less than a couple of dozen spots in the code that
were not 64-bit clean (using int instead of the appropriate
type for casting pointers, for the most part) - it is open source,
but the original author (Jonathan Kamens) had done the cleanup for 64-bit himself.

https://www.mit.edu/people/jik/software/xrn.html

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:58:30 GMT
info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:50:45 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> did make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism
> when they didst announce:
>
> >On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:10:50 GMT
> >info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting.... thanks Gordon. So the Beeb and varients, and the
> >> Sinclair's shared a common ancestor in Ferranti. Did not know that.
> >
> > Not really an ancestor so much as a common component, they all
> >prototyped in TTL and then sent off specs to Ferranti for a ULA (or two)
> >to replace most of the TTL to make the production affordable. They all
> >had trouble as a result.
>
> So they were all a common design?

No they were very different - even if most of them were financed by
the same DOI grant. The ULA - uncommitted logic array - could be set up to
contain almost any circuitry.

> I'm sure there were probably also grants available to "Buy British" under
> Thatcher's nationalistic programs.

Quite possibly - there was a lot of grant chasing going on. Between
loans and grants the founders of Torch turned £30k into £2.5m and went on a
spending spree.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2023-03-15, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:14:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> did
> make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:
>
>>On 2023-03-15, maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-03-15, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Microsoft have never told the truth on system requirements:
>>
>>Or anything else, for that matter.
>>
>>>> "640k should be enough for anyone" - Bill Gates
>>>
>>> AFAIRemember, the early macs needed extra memory to actually do
>>> anything,
>>
>>And said extra memory wasn't approved by Apple: "128K should be
>>enough for anyone." But I do recall mention of the "Mac cracker"
>>(a tool to open the case), plus instructions for soldering in
>>extra memory chips to create a 512K "Fat Mac".
>
> So that's what a Fat Mac was! I thought it was some sort of adapter card, but I
> never actually had (or seen) a Mac of that vintage, so my assumption was way off
> base.
>
>>> and I doubt that "the juggler" demo was created in a Amiga 500
>>
>>Probably because the A500 didn't exist yet. :-)
>
> Good point
>
> --

From memory, the A500 needed extra memory to run a spreadsheet.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:08:20 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:58:30 GMT
>info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:50:45 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> did make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism
>> when they didst announce:
>>
>> >On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:10:50 GMT
>> >info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Interesting.... thanks Gordon. So the Beeb and varients, and the
>> >> Sinclair's shared a common ancestor in Ferranti. Did not know that.
>> >
>> > Not really an ancestor so much as a common component, they all
>> >prototyped in TTL and then sent off specs to Ferranti for a ULA (or two)
>> >to replace most of the TTL to make the production affordable. They all
>> >had trouble as a result.
>>
>> So they were all a common design?
>
> No they were very different - even if most of them were financed by
>the same DOI grant. The ULA - uncommitted logic array - could be set up to
>contain almost any circuitry.

So possibly the forerunner of the modern FPGA?

>> I'm sure there were probably also grants available to "Buy British" under
>> Thatcher's nationalistic programs.
>
> Quite possibly - there was a lot of grant chasing going on. Between
>loans and grants the founders of Torch turned A?30k into A?2.5m and went on a
>spending spree.

I regret being a tad too young to have ridden that gravy train, lol!

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:20:16 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) did make
me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

>info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) writes:
>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:50:12 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) did>> make
>>me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:
>>
>>>"Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-fcd-this> writes:
>>>> To: snipeco.2
>>>>-=3D> snipeco.2 wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=3D-
>>>>
>>>> sn> OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32
>>>>
>>>> sn> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Forte Agent and Eudora Pro 2.2 - that brings back memories. Clients >>went
>>>>all downhill from there... :)
>>>
>>>I'm still using xrn (1989).
>>
>>Pretty sure they didn't have a 64-bit client back then though ;)
>
>There were less than a couple of dozen spots in the code that
>were not 64-bit clean (using int instead of the appropriate
>type for casting pointers, for the most part) - it is open source,
>but the original author (Jonathan Kamens) had done the cleanup for 64-bit himself.

Impressive level of development!

>https://www.mit.edu/people/jik/software/xrn.html

Thanks for the info. I'll have to go play with this on my Slackware box now :)

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:54:36 GMT
info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:08:20 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot

> >the same DOI grant. The ULA - uncommitted logic array - could be set up
> >to contain almost any circuitry.
>
> So possibly the forerunner of the modern FPGA?

Yes, the big difference being the F (or lack thereof), the ULAs
were factory programmed with a final mask like masked ROMs.

> >loans and grants the founders of Torch turned A?30k into A?2.5m and went
> >on a spending spree.
>
> I regret being a tad too young to have ridden that gravy train, lol!

They eventually got ordered to return the toys (which were leased I
think) including the Rolls, Lotus and Cessna - but it was fun while it
lasted.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 15 Mar 2023 19:40:46 GMT, maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>On 2023-03-15, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:14:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> did
>> make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:
>>
>>>On 2023-03-15, maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-03-15, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft have never told the truth on system requirements:
>>>
>>>Or anything else, for that matter.
>>>
>>>>> "640k should be enough for anyone" - Bill Gates
>>>>
>>>> AFAIRemember, the early macs needed extra memory to actually do
>>>> anything,
>>>
>>>And said extra memory wasn't approved by Apple: "128K should be
>>>enough for anyone." But I do recall mention of the "Mac cracker"
>>>(a tool to open the case), plus instructions for soldering in
>>>extra memory chips to create a 512K "Fat Mac".
>>
>> So that's what a Fat Mac was! I thought it was some sort of adapter card, but I
>> never actually had (or seen) a Mac of that vintage, so my assumption was way off
>> base.
>>
>>>> and I doubt that "the juggler" demo was created in a Amiga 500
>>>
>>>Probably because the A500 didn't exist yet. :-)
>>
>> Good point
>>
>> --
>
>From memory, the A500 needed extra memory to run a spreadsheet.

I didn't have to add any memory to run my copy of Lotus 1-2-3 for my
Amiga computer. It had a caution in the owner's manual. Don't go below
a certain row as the MS-DOS version couldn't import those rows.

--
Jim

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 21:08:57 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

>On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:54:36 GMT
>info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:08:20 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>
>> >the same DOI grant. The ULA - uncommitted logic array - could be set up
>> >to contain almost any circuitry.
>>
>> So possibly the forerunner of the modern FPGA?
>
> Yes, the big difference being the F (or lack thereof), the ULAs
>were factory programmed with a final mask like masked ROMs.

Makes perfect sense.

>> >loans and grants the founders of Torch turned A?30k into A?2.5m and went
>> >on a spending spree.
>>
>> I regret being a tad too young to have ridden that gravy train, lol!
>
> They eventually got ordered to return the toys (which were leased I
>think) including the Rolls, Lotus and Cessna - but it was fun while it
>lasted.

Closest I came was with My Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can 'ardly get up
them ;)

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

On 11/03/2023 00:13, OldbieOne wrote:

>
> Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
> sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.
>
I have fond memories of my Dragon. I really liked the 6809.

But nothing like anything Sinclair had at the time.

Andy

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 16:52:59 +0000, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/03/2023 00:13, OldbieOne wrote:
>
>>
>> Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
>> sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.
>>
> I have fond memories of my Dragon. I really liked the 6809.
>
> But nothing like anything Sinclair had at the time.

Yep the 6809 was pretty nice. The thing that let the Dragon down was
that it was just upper-case in text mode, and the graphics were not
really all that good for the gamers. Also ISTR that OS9 was delayed
quite a while as was the Dragon 64 (we got it in the UK later than the
US).

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 16:52:59 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> did make me awaken from my chaotic
existentialism when they didst announce:

>On 11/03/2023 00:13, OldbieOne wrote:
>
>>
>> Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
>> sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.
>>
>I have fond memories of my Dragon. I really liked the 6809.
>
>But nothing like anything Sinclair had at the time.

I saw quite a few old hams with Dragons for SSTV and RTTY in UK,
but few used Sinclair, despite the plethora of ham radio programs for it.

I seem to recall it had something to do with the fact the Sinclair cases offered
no shielding since my father sprayed the inside of my 48k Speccy with a
metalized paint, and grounded it to the negative terminal of the power supply.

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32