On Sun, 16 Jul 2023 23:02:43 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> According to some people in this group, a troll is someone you disagree
> with. That would mean they are trolls for disagreeing as well.

What's funny is they are disagreeing with what Apple marketing does.

They call every Apple marketing campaign, a troll.

Instead of accepting that it's Apple who "obsesses" over the color of the
iPhone, they call everyone who dares to post a URL to the Apple marketing
campaigns where Apple obsesses over the iPhone color, as a troll.

Simply for pointing out what Apple does.

Apple clearly obsesses over the iPhone color.
What does that tell you about what Apple thinks of its iPhone consumer?

On 2023-07-16 17:44, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-07-16 13:43, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-07-16 16:27, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-07-16 11:41, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-07-16 13:03, Wilf wrote:
>>>>> really obsess over this Arlen character.  As if he's the
>>>>> Anti-Christ or something.    Or the sort of mythical hate figure
>>>>> needed to control the masses which Goldstein was set up to be in
>>>>> the book Nineteen Eighty-Four.
>>>>
>>>> You're quite right - we should absolutely ignore it, but we seem to
>>>> be weak.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ignoring it has never ever worked as a strategy.
>>
>> It's actually the most successful way of dealing with trolls.  However
>> as soon as 1 person answers it, it gets oxygen to keep on going.
>>
>
> But that's a flaw you can NEVER eliminate.
>
> There will always be new people who come in and provide the oxygen.

Doesn't mean the "regulars" need to.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-07-16 19:31, Minoru Osaka wrote:

> Apple clearly obsesses over the iPhone color.

You're obsessing over the colour because you have no clue what marketing
and advertising is for. That campaign probably helped sell 25 -
50,000,000 iPhones - of which very few were yellow. Also helped sell
many other Apple products from Watches to Earpods to iPads and even Macs.

They probably spent about $25M on that campaign and it probably boosted
income (with eye watering margins) about $20B. Spit balling here, mind.

Huge ROI for that campaign.

But - you don't understand marketing/advertising, so don't worry too much.

> What does that tell you about what Apple thinks of its iPhone consumer?

That we keep offering our clients the best there is and they will come
back again and again and again because they prefer the best product that
has the best integrated eco-system of them all.

Rumour amongst top value investors is that Apple is an ungodly well
managed company.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-07-16 16:31, Minoru Osaka wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2023 23:02:43 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
>
>> According to some people in this group, a troll is someone you disagree
>> with. That would mean they are trolls for disagreeing as well.
>
> What's funny is they are disagreeing with what Apple marketing does.
>
>      They call every Apple marketing campaign, a troll.
>
> Instead of accepting that it's Apple who "obsesses" over the color of the
> iPhone, they call everyone who dares to post a URL to the Apple marketing
> campaigns where Apple obsesses over the iPhone color, as a troll.
>
>      Simply for pointing out what Apple does.
>
> Apple clearly obsesses over the iPhone color.
> What does that tell you about what Apple thinks of its iPhone consumer?

Oh, look!

Arlen has a new posting nym!

:-)

On 2023-07-16 17:04, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-07-16 17:44, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-07-16 13:43, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-07-16 16:27, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2023-07-16 11:41, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-07-16 13:03, Wilf wrote:
>>>>>> really obsess over this Arlen character.  As if he's the
>>>>>> Anti-Christ or something.    Or the sort of mythical hate figure
>>>>>> needed to control the masses which Goldstein was set up to be in
>>>>>> the book Nineteen Eighty-Four.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're quite right - we should absolutely ignore it, but we seem to
>>>>> be weak.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ignoring it has never ever worked as a strategy.
>>>
>>> It's actually the most successful way of dealing with trolls.
>>> However as soon as 1 person answers it, it gets oxygen to keep on going.
>>>
>>
>> But that's a flaw you can NEVER eliminate.
>>
>> There will always be new people who come in and provide the oxygen.
>
> Doesn't mean the "regulars" need to.
>

It means that the regulars have to deal with the facts.

I choose to deal with them by amusing myself.

On 2023-07-16, Wilf <wilf@postingx.uk> wrote:
> On 16/07/2023 at 17:48, Bob Campbell wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Apple is an ungodly well managed company." - Charlie Munger
>>
>> And THAT is what drives Arlen the Androidiot crazy. If Apple was
>> selling Android phones, Arlen the Androidiot would LOVE Apple.
>>
>> But Alas, Apple does not sell Windows PCs and Apple does not sell
>> Android phones. Thus, being a good little troll kiddie, Arlen the
>> Androidiot has been having a 5 year long public tantrum.
>
> Jeez, you guys really obsess over this Arlen character.

No, Arlen obsesses over Apple, to the extent that he literally creates
hundreds of new nyms a month, regularly impersonates existing nyms, and
spends literal hours every day trolling the Apple news groups. The
normal people in the Apple news groups are simply reacting to his
constant disruptions. Nice try at victim blaming, but no cigar.

> As if he's the Anti-Christ or something.

Nope, just a complete loser who trolls endlessly.

> Or the sort of mythical hate figure needed to control the masses which
> Goldstein was set up to be in the book Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Not that either. Three strikes, you're out.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-07-16, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-07-16 16:27, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-07-16 11:41, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>
>>> You're quite right - we should absolutely ignore it, but we seem to
>>> be weak.
>>
>> Ignoring it has never ever worked as a strategy.
>
> It's actually the most successful way of dealing with trolls. However
> as soon as 1 person answers it, it gets oxygen to keep on going.

You're ignoring the fact that Arlen regularly creates new nyms to answer
himself. Ignoring him does nothing.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-07-16, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> According to some people in this group, a troll is someone you
> disagree with.

You're projecting as usual. And you *regularly* side with Arlen and sms
in their obvious trolls. You gleefully participated in the recent
"ERRMEGHERD, Apple dared to release a YELLOW iPHONE" troll threads, even
creating one or two of your own as just one example.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On Sun, 16 Jul 2023 20:25:43 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>> Apple clearly obsesses over the iPhone color.
>
> You're obsessing over the colour because you have no clue what marketing
> and advertising is for.

You do not seem to be stupid, so I will attempt to discuss how Apple
markets the iPhone at the next level - to see if you can keep up. OK?

I agree that the dumb "Hello Yellow" campaign was likely simply a way for
Apple to say something (anything!) in the mid-year cycle for the iPhone 14.

But what does _that_ say about what Apple thinks of its own customers?

Apple had nothing else to say about the iPhone 14 so in reality, if Apple
didn't want to "obsess" over the color, they should have said nothing.

> That campaign probably helped sell 25 -
> 50,000,000 iPhones - of which very few were yellow. Also helped sell
> many other Apple products from Watches to Earpods to iPads and even Macs.

I agree with you that part of advertising is to simply make it appear that
Apple has something different to offer its iPhone customers that's unique.

For example, Apple marketing obsessed over the RED! color quite a few
times, mainly as a sleazy way for Apple to promote a specific charity.

Again, I ask you to delve into the question of why Apple stooped that low.
Consider, for example, Apple could have donated directly to the charity.

But they didn't (as far as we know from their advertisements).
They used the obsession over the RED! iPhone as their donation messaging.

What does that say about what Apple thinks of its own customer base?

> They probably spent about $25M on that campaign and it probably boosted
> income (with eye watering margins) about $20B. Spit balling here, mind.
>
> Huge ROI for that campaign.
>
> But - you don't understand marketing/advertising, so don't worry too much.

Actually I do understand marketing rather well, whether you know it or not.
Apple marketing is one of the finest on this planet at understanding you.

You, for example, read an Apple white paper as if it's gospel. Admit it.
You can't fathom, for example, zero-click holes abound on Apple devices.

You think to yourself, "If Apple's sandbox is so great", and "If Apple's
Secure Enclave is so great" and "If Apple's encryption is so great"...

Then how can it be there are so many zero-click exploits on Apple devices.

I would wager I understand you better than you understand yourself.
You believed white papers (which said all these exploits are impossible).

>> What does that tell you about what Apple thinks of its iPhone consumer?
>
> That we keep offering our clients the best there is and they will come
> back again and again and again because they prefer the best product that
> has the best integrated eco-system of them all.

You think it's they best product because you _believe_ the white papers.
And yet, you _ignore_ that iOS is the most exploited smartphone OS around.

You don't know that you don't understand a single thing about iOS.
For example, you vehemently will deny that the walled garden even exists.

Am I right?

What does that mean to a person who is intelligent & who understands Apple?
It means you're incredibly ignorant about everything that Apple does today.

What you don't realize is you only believe what Apple told you to believe.
And Apple never once said that the walled garden exists.

Everyone else _knows_ the walled garden is very real. Except you.
Since Apple didn't tell you the walled garden exists, you say it doesn't.

Even though almost all the flaws in Apple products are due to those walls.
Am I right about you?

> Rumour amongst top value investors is that Apple is an ungodly well
> managed company.

Again we agree that Apple plays ignorant people like a fiddle, with the
classic joke of 'laughing all the way to the bank befitting' of them.

If Apple actually thought their customer wasn't incredibly stupid, then the
Apple marketing campaigns wouldn't be obsessing over what they obsess over.

I wonder if you can step up to the level which I upped the conversation to?
We will know if you can play at the next league level by your response.

On 2023-07-16 21:35, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-07-16, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-07-16 16:27, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-07-16 11:41, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You're quite right - we should absolutely ignore it, but we seem to
>>>> be weak.
>>>
>>> Ignoring it has never ever worked as a strategy.
>>
>> It's actually the most successful way of dealing with trolls. However
>> as soon as 1 person answers it, it gets oxygen to keep on going.
>
> You're ignoring the fact that Arlen regularly creates new nyms to answer
> himself. Ignoring him does nothing.

I disagree - if he gets into a shouting match with himself, both are
easily KF'd - but everyone needs to lean that way for it to be
effective. Troll-lites like badg don't matter.

--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase

On 2023-07-17 07:00, Minoru Osaka wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2023 20:25:43 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> Apple clearly obsesses over the iPhone color.
>>
>> You're obsessing over the colour because you have no clue what
>> marketing and advertising is for.
>
> You do not seem to be stupid, so I will attempt to discuss how Apple
> markets the iPhone at the next level - to see if you can keep up. OK?
>
> I agree that the dumb "Hello Yellow" campaign was likely simply a way for
> Apple to say something (anything!) in the mid-year cycle for the iPhone 14.
>
> But what does _that_ say about what Apple thinks of its own customers?

That they are like people?

Because they are people, Arlen?

>
> Apple had nothing else to say about the iPhone 14 so in reality, if Apple
> didn't want to "obsess" over the color, they should have said nothing.

How would that have helped them, Arlen?

>> That campaign probably helped sell 25 - 50,000,000 iPhones - of which
>> very few were yellow.  Also helped sell many other Apple products from
>> Watches to Earpods to iPads and even Macs.
>
> I agree with you that part of advertising is to simply make it appear that
> Apple has something different to offer its iPhone customers that's unique.

That's part of ANYONE's advertising, Arlen.

>
> For example, Apple marketing obsessed over the RED! color quite a few
> times, mainly as a sleazy way for Apple to promote a specific charity.

What in the world is "sleazy" about it, Arlen?

>
> Again, I ask you to delve into the question of why Apple stooped that low.
> Consider, for example, Apple could have donated directly to the charity.

Who says that Apple doesn't?

And selling a product for the same price as the non-charity version (and
you can check online and see that that's what they do) but then donating
some of the price to a charity IS Apple donating to that charity directly.

>
> But they didn't (as far as we know from their advertisements).

Weasel words, Arlen.

> They used the obsession over the RED! iPhone as their donation messaging.
>
> What does that say about what Apple thinks of its own customer base?
>
>> They probably spent about $25M on that campaign and it probably
>> boosted income (with eye watering margins) about $20B.  Spit balling
>> here, mind.
>>
>> Huge ROI for that campaign.
>>
>> But - you don't understand marketing/advertising, so don't worry too
>> much.
>
> Actually I do understand marketing rather well, whether you know it or not.
> Apple marketing is one of the finest on this planet at understanding you.
>
> You, for example, read an Apple white paper as if it's gospel. Admit it.
> You can't fathom, for example, zero-click holes abound on Apple devices.

You can't fathom that zero-click holes appear in everyone's products, Arlen.

>
> You think to yourself, "If Apple's sandbox is so great", and "If Apple's
> Secure Enclave is so great" and "If Apple's encryption is so great"...
> Then how can it be there are so many zero-click exploits on Apple devices.

Show that they appear with any greater frequency than the norm, Arlen.

>
> I would wager I understand you better than you understand yourself.
> You believed white papers (which said all these exploits are impossible).
>
>>> What does that tell you about what Apple thinks of its iPhone consumer?
>>
>> That we keep offering our clients the best there is and they will come
>> back again and again and again because they prefer the best product
>> that has the best integrated eco-system of them all.
>
> You think it's they best product because you _believe_ the white papers.
> And yet, you _ignore_ that iOS is the most exploited smartphone OS around.
>
> You don't know that you don't understand a single thing about iOS.
> For example, you vehemently will deny that the walled garden even exists.
>
> Am I right?
>
> What does that mean to a person who is intelligent & who understands Apple?
> It means you're incredibly ignorant about everything that Apple does today.
>
> What you don't realize is you only believe what Apple told you to believe.
> And Apple never once said that the walled garden exists.
>
> Everyone else _knows_ the walled garden is very real. Except you.
> Since Apple didn't tell you the walled garden exists, you say it doesn't.
>
> Even though almost all the flaws in Apple products are due to those walls.
> Am I right about you?
>
>> Rumour amongst top value investors is that Apple is an ungodly well
>> managed company.
>
> Again we agree that Apple plays ignorant people like a fiddle, with the
> classic joke of 'laughing all the way to the bank befitting' of them.
>
> If Apple actually thought their customer wasn't incredibly stupid, then the
> Apple marketing campaigns wouldn't be obsessing over what they obsess over.
>
> I wonder if you can step up to the level which I upped the conversation to?
> We will know if you can play at the next league level by your response.

LOL!

Minoru Osaka <minoru.osaka@asahi.net> wrote:

> I wonder if you can step up to the level which I upped the conversation to?

There is no “step up” in your drivel, Arlen. This is the exact same level
you ALWAYS operate at: Apple customers are stupid. Geniuses buy Android
phones.

That’s it.

If you would actually talk about facts instead of your childish opinions,
THAT would be a step up. But as long as you continue with your S.O.B.
(Standard Operational Bullshit), then we will continue to laugh at you.

If you want to be treated like an adult, then stop acting like a child.