badgolferman wrote:

>> I realize this is too deep technically for 99.9% of the people on this
>> newsgroup, but the simplified takeaway is that the GMail app itself is
>> actually more private on iOS than it is on Android - which is ironic.
>
> The ability to use gmail labels and have them automatically applied based
> on my filters is important to me. No other mail app that I've seen will
> port the gmail label system

Hi badgolferman,

You are balanced, as am I, so it would be unreasonable of me to disagree
that the GMail labels and filters are important to you - and I agree.

You and I both care most about functionality first, and then privacy
second. For some people privacy is a distant second to functionality,
whereas for me, privacy is a close second to functionality.

But for both of us, functionality is the most important.
(e.g., what good is privacy without functionality?)

In terms of functionality, the GMail app is pretty good, but luckily for
iOS users like you and I are, in terms of privacy (which is always second
to functionality), the GMail app on iOS is _far more private_ than the
GMail app is on Android.

And that's a good thing for iOS users like you and I.

Notice what reasonable people do, by the way, which is they easily agree on
a logical basis, where intelligent people know _both sides_ of the story.

In summary, it's not a loss of privacy for you to use the GMail app on iOS,
but it would be a (rather huge) loss of privacy to use that app on Android.

*iOS, in this case, for this Google app, is more private than is Android.*

>> By way of stark contrast, when you use the Google Maps app on Android
>> without logging into the app itself, it _asks_ you to turn on "Location",
>> but it doesn't tell you overtly that this location switch is DIFFERENT from
>> the user turning on location manually
>
> Waze is better than Apple Maps although it's now owned by Google.

That's interesting you say that because I don't use Waze on Android for
similar reasons that I don't use many Google apps on Android which is
functionality first, privacy second, and where Waze _requires_ a mothership
tracking account (as far as I am aware).

Remember, the whole point is functionality first - privacy second - where
the functionality of Waze doesn't appear to me, at least upon my initial
inspection of the app content, to be all that much different than from
Google maps. Sure, they talk about accidents and speed traps better, but
for the most part you can ascertain accidents from red areas in Google Maps
(via the browser or via the map app) without logging into any mothership
tracking account.

As for Apple Maps, I tested it thoroughly years ago, particularly on a
Wi-Fi only iPad from Costco (we can dig up the report) and it did
reasonably well but I don't remember if it requires the mothership tracking
account since iOS _already_ requires the mothership tracking account.

Hence, my recommendation for you in terms of functionality first, privacy
second, is that if you like functionality that Waze provides over that of
both Google Maps (which doesn't require a mothership tracking account) and
of Apple Maps (which I'm not sure if it utilizes the mothership tracking
account), then it's a reasonably logical choice of you to select Waze.

Having said all that, I wonder if what Steve has been claiming about Apple
maps is true nowadays, in that he (and certainly the iKooks) are claiming
Apple Maps is almost as good as Google Maps nowadays.

Is that so?
*Is Apple Maps finally (almost?) a functional equivalent to Google Maps?*

If it's true, then why not use the Apple Maps app (since you're _already_
logging into the Apple mothership tracking account)?

Notice, as was the key advice in the article you kindly referenced on
privacy versus functionality, it's always functionality first, privacy
second.

>> On iOS, the default browser, whether you like that one browser or not, as
>> you are well aware, is Safari - and on Android it's Chrome. While you can
>> add Chrome to iOS, you can't make it the default (last I checked), which is
>> a good thing actually, whereas on Android it comes as the default browser.
>
> Actually now you can set it as the default browser. I think that changed
> with iOS 13 or 14.

Thank you for your correction that you can now set iOS to default to Chrome
instead of to Safari to open links, which is useful information I
appreciate.

All too often people are stuck on old data and they don't update their
brains to the latest information available to them. Hence I appreciate that
update.

With respect to functionality, the "Chrome" browser is about the same as
the Chromium source is, and therefore the "Ungoogled Chromium" browser is
what you'd really want on iOS.

Notice that keeps with our theme of functionality first and privacy second.
(Again... what good is privacy without functionality?)

Unfortunately, I just looked for the Ungoogled Chromium IPA for you on the
Apple App Store, and, unfortunately for iOS users, it doesn't seem to
exist.

Hence, the Chrome you get (which uses webkit anyway), is not really giving
you much more of a functionality over Safari but that's only because Apple
requires all iOS web browsers to use webkit (which is inferior in almost
all ways in terms of functionality).

Sigh. We can't win sometimes.
Particularly when we go against what the mothership wants you to do.

>> In summary, if you are technically competent on both platforms you can find
>> substitutes for Google products where, surprisingly, on the iOS platform
>> some of those substitutes are actually _more_ private (but not all).
>
> It's obvious privacy is the #1 issue you care about, which is completely
> understandable.

Actually, functionality is the #1 issue I care about; however I agree with
your point in your other thread about turning off "favorite locations" that
it's always going to be a decision of how much to weigh the functionality
gained versus the privacy lost.

Obviously I always strive to attain maximum functionality with minimum loss
of privacy - which takes intelligence most people here don't have - so I'm
rather _different_ in that respect from most posters to any iOS newsgroup.

What else is rather different about me, other than I'm far more technically
aware of the Apple propaganda than almost everyone else on this newsgroup
(David Empson excepted), is that I have both platforms and I use whichever
provides the most functionality at the least cost in privacy.

That's a reasonable approach, don't you think?

For example, have you ever noticed I espouse the virtues of Google Voice?
You didn't mention it in your "google apps" list, as I recall, but it's a
biggie in terms of free USA calls and call forwarding and voicemail too.

Notice that there is a (huge) loss in privacy in using Google Voice, right?
I prioritize FUNCTIONALITY first; privacy (a close) second.

But guess what?
I don't use Google Voice on Android.

Nope.
I don't.

Why not?
Because the instant you log into the Android Google Voice app, it _creates_
the mothership tracking account! Yikes!

Oh no, right?
But wait. There's more.

On iOS, when you log into the Google Voice app, it does NOT create the
mothership tracking account!

Woo hoo!
See what I mean?

I prioritize FUNCTIONALITY over privacy but I still remain intelligent
about my choices of which platform and which software to use on it.

On iOS, using Google Voice is much more private than it is on Android.

Again, notice I understand _both sides_ of the equation, which is why I'm
an intelligent knowledgeable reasonable logical person (unlike most of the
people on this ng).

As with the GMail app, iOS Google Voice is more private than on Android.

> But at the expense of privacy comes inconvenience which is
> a trade off one has to weigh.

Since the dawn of time, privacy has _always_ been at the expense of
convenience.

Think about what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom, when, if you
have kids, for example, you close the door and pull shut the curtains.

Privacy (and security) has always come at the expense of convenience.

Heck, who doesn't lock their car doors when they park at a shopping mall
even as they wouldn't bother to lock their doors when parked in their
driveway.

Privacy (and security) has always come at the cost of convenience.
What I strive for is a logically reasonable setup.

The real cost, which you didn't mention, isn't so much convenience, but
knowledge, which, itself, requires intelligence (which most don't have).

Most people on this newsgroup, unfortunately, believe everything they're
told by a mothership who is raking in the profits like crazy off the
ignorant gullibility of the users believing what they're being told.

The fact is that iOS is often far less privacy than Android and, as I've
amply shown above, there are certainly cases where iOS is actually more
private than is Android.

What I love about our reasonable conversation here is we differ in the
weights we place on functionality versus privacy but we don't differ in our
reasonable logic which is, in terms of the topic of this thread, that there
are Google Apps which are actually more private on iOS than on Android.

Most people are too ignorant to realize that fact but you and I can discuss
what we know in a way that is adult so that we don't have to spend umpteen
posts having to prove the lies of the likes of nospam and the other iKooks
wrong.

We can simply agree on almost everything you've said, as our only
difference is the weight we personally place on the seesaw between
functionality first, and privacy second.

Thank you very much for your adult conversation.
It's refreshingly informative.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which is to agree that Google iOS apps are more private than on Android.