On 4/23/2022 11:46 AM, B.H. wrote:
> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 12:01:54 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/23/2022 10:53 AM, B.H. wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 10:27:26 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 4/23/2022 8:09 AM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:17:54 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 8:11 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 7:12:26 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 6:04 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 2:06:39 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 12:07 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 12:35:16 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 11:14 AM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 11:57:19 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 10:46 AM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 10:54:38 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/2022 6:50 AM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:56:41 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 5:50 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 4:33 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 5:04:22 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:45:38 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 3:35 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 4:34:57 PM UTC-4, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 3:07:01 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:56 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 2:51:35 PM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 1:34 PM, B.H. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No typos. Follow laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The CIA is not allowed to monitor US citizens, that is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FBI's job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, a lot of people do illegal things. Are you suggesting that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there were no CIA spies near me and they were just extremists?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's possible, but I believe the bot is CIA. In particular, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced enough at science-related skill possession--chemistry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular--in a way that I believe, without personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge, that the CIA doesn't hire for enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in the CIA caught spying on US citizens can be fired, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they simply leave that to the FBI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think the FBI would watch me for long, I've done nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal. Have you heard something to the contrary? I am very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respectful of all US laws and strive to follow all of them, even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this outrageous set of circumstances.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I've broken any laws, not that I know all of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I wouldn't get upset with you if you stated an allegation you'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heard unless you were also smearing my mathematical talent.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have had no basis to accurately assess your mathematical talent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The church of Jesus Christ of Latter days saints views all gossip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (such as repeating allegations) as morally wrong and I agree.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus never existed and doesn't exist. Paul's letters are fake (Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also never existed) and there is no evidence corroborating the writings
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Josephus whatsoever. #atheism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is complete proof that God exists, yet what is very very strange
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about this proof is that it does not exist until one actively seeks it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The reason that this kind of proof seems so very strange is that humans
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are very carefully brainwashed to believe that reality is entirely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different than it really is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One cannot possibly begin to see this different nature of reality until
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after they first discard their fundamental most basic assumption of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophical materialism.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, what is your proof that God exists? I have a proof that there is no god or higher power. Essentially, it is that the forces of nature are unconscious; if they were conscious and in line with any religious tradition articulated in any sacred text (Bible, Quran, etc.), then God would care about those who are human and do a good enough job of following his rules. However, as we've seen throughout history, many very virtuous people, including slaves in the 1860s and Jewish people in the 1940s, were made to suffer extreme anguish and torture well beyond what even I could imagine; according to me, some very virtuous people who suffered that way will never fully get over it, although they will likely feel better, even after they come back to life. That is why I don't believe any God would exist; e.g., if Jesus were really a powerful son of God, he would have stopped the Holocaust and slavery instead of leaving it to Lincoln and Einstein and others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That argument isn't something I originated, but I agree with it wholeheartedly and feel certain there are many other example throughout history of "too much suffering" for a god to allow. If a god liked humanity at all, he/she would do something other than make appearances and make up rules and insist in a way that he/she exists; actual aid would be provided to humans, who would all see the existence of this deity clearly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no suitable rebuttal to this argument, but I fully accept people whom I see as wrong about the idea of any gods; everyone has the right to be respected and treated as an equal, in spite of possible confused wrong beliefs about a god, which is really just a psychologically appealing (and probably evolved) personification of scientific forces that some people would like to feel able to relate to and more comfortable with as they perceive such forces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm open to replies about this. In particular, there is no argument that proves that there is a god; some might cite Bible passages, but that is merely assuming what one is seeking to prove. Why should anyone believe what is in the Bible or any other sacred text just because lots of other people believe it and want to indoctrinate others with that sort of belief system?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip White (philip...@yahoo.com)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, yes, materialism is wrong, but that does not imply the existence of any god. It merely proves that people are conscious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Philip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I you can change physical reality by merely thinking about changing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silently in your own mind and not actually doing anything else then and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only then is philosophical materialism fully refuted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well of course, you can change your own brain and what data is stored in your memories in it, leading you to behave differently in the future, thereby at least modifying the physical reality that you will see in the future, perhaps the near future. That has nothing to do with any god.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is not the scenario that I am referring to. I am not referring to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any self induced delusion. I am referring to actually changing external
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical reality as a verified fact.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is changed by merely thinking about changing it silently within your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own mind. No physical action is taken yet a physical result is derived.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is nothing surprising, and doesn't demonstrate the existence of any god.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if you wish for a cup of coffee and suddenly a cup of coffee appears
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of nowhere right in front of you this is not some kind of miracle?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I don't believe in any miracles or supernatural forces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None-the-less when you see them with your own eyes first hand disbelief
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is erased.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My guess would be that if people are "seeing miracles" it might be because they are caused by a sort of large network of people who share their beliefs and see the world that way.
>>>>>>>>>>>> IT CAN BE EMPIRICALLY VERIFIED THAT REALITY HAS NO INDEPENDENT EXISTENCE
>>>>>>>>>>>> APART FROM MIND IN THAT MERE THOUGHTS HELD SILENTLY WITHIN THE MIND
>>>>>>>>>>>> BECOME PHYSICALLY MANIFEST AS CHANGES TO PHYSICAL REALITY.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you writing in all caps means that you are upset that I will not respond to this point, because I am not out to upset you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That only means that I am emphasizing text. I used to use HTML bold
>>>>>>>>>> until I found out that many people have readers that screen out all HTML
>>>>>>>>>> messages.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> maya, (Sanskrit: “magic” or “illusion”) a fundamental concept in Hindu
>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy, notably in the Advaita (Nondualist) school of Vedanta. Maya
>>>>>>>>>>>> originally denoted the magic power with which a god can make human
>>>>>>>>>>>> beings believe in what turns out to be an illusion.
>>>>>>>>>>>> By extension, it later came to mean the powerful force that creates the
>>>>>>>>>>>> cosmic illusion that the phenomenal world is real.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It sounds like you are suggesting that all of reality is an illusion.
>>>>>>>>>> Physical reality is mutable (can be changed) by merely thinking about
>>>>>>>>>> changing it and doing nothing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is true, but only to a very negligible extent.
>>>>>>>> I am not referring to any mere negligible extent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For example (hypothetically) I could wish for Putin to die of a heart
>>>>>>>> attack 3 minutes and 17 seconds from now. When this happens exactly that
>>>>>>>> way it is not any mere negligible extent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you kept a tally of how many times your predictions came true?
>>>>>> The key quantifiable event
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/ESP(Coin_Toss).pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/ESP(Encyclopaedia_Britannica_Volume_13).pdf
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>>>
>>>>> I read your post about the 25 coin tosses. That is unlikely...2^25 = 33,554,432, so if that really happened, it sounds like it has the same odds, roughly, as you winning the lottery.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing to consider is that you could consider the possibility that something very unlikely happens every hour might be 1/50,000,000 . Over the course of 20 years, there are 24*1040 hours that you go through, including while asleep. The odds that an event like the one you describe, which is admittedly unlikely, would never happen is (1-1/50000000)^(24*1040) = 99.95%, approximately.
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact that your coin tosses event happened is rather striking, but at the same time, you should consider that the idea that, given any hour, an event that unlikely would never happen to an individual person over the course is less than 1/2000. In other words, given a collection of 2000 people, one of them is statistically expected to have something that unlikely happen for an hour over the course of 20 years. It just turns out that in your case, the big event was more dramatic than it might be for some other people.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a comparison: If you thought about the idea of being born as smart as Albert Einstein before 1950, you might consider the fact that the global population in 1950 was around 2.5 billion. Thus, the odds of being the smartest one at physics--or anything, really--who had ever lived are less than 1 in 2.5 billion. Einstein's genius was remarkable, but quite literally, *someone* has to be in first place...as unlikely as it is that it would be one particular person, there still must be one person who is going to wind up being brilliant enough to be in first place at physics.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could see your experience in the same way...there are 8 billion people in the world, and let's just suppose that 1 billion of these people have flipped a coin 25 times in a row to see what would happen, one time. The expected value of people who would see this event is literally at least 20...so there might be 20 other people who had that same experience, out of the 1 billion, and just haven't discussed it. It isn't all that surprising, particularly given the probability of that sort of experiment...lots of people study probability and statistics and might feel driven to try that experiment, so in a way, the probability of having that experience was increased by the popularity of studying math and probability these days, especially in the US.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Philip
>>>> It would have taken 24/7 for 865 years to happen by chance, thus it
>>>> didn't happen by chance, there was cause-and-effect.
>>>> --
>>>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>>>
>>>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>>>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>>>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>>>
>>> The odds of it happening to you in that amount of time are about 1/5 -- 1 - 0.797858, according to Google's calculator function.
>>>
>>> Actually, I would take that as pretty strong evidence that your sense of reality is definitely not an illusion. As you've noted, if it were just you, a god, and various illusory "people" going around being images of people doing things like a movie, then the odds of you ever doing that would be very low. Basically, "something you see as very remarkable and highly improbable" happened...but there are lots of other event that could have happened like that that would be signifcant, like someone you know having the exact same thing happen in front of you, or having 5 meteorites crash to the Earth somewhere in your state at the exact same second...or having that happen in another state and seeing it on the national news.
>>>
>>> So the point is that if you are the only person who exists, then your experience would be "extremely improbable." Otherwise, it's probabilistically not much different from you winning the lottery.
>>>
>>> -Philip
>> The correct measure is the binomial probability distribution thus the
>> chance of this event occurring on the first try was 0.5 ^ 25, one chance
>> in 3,3554,432. Many hundreds of similar events followed, yet none of
>> these events were objectively quantifiable.
>
> Well yes, but one highly unusual event--even one highly unusual event followed by 20 more likely events that are "kind of unusual"--is not necessarily cause to believe that reality is an illusion. It sounds much more likely that it was either a coincidence

That is what someone would say the begins with [philosophical
materialism] as their most basic assumption. When one has no such basic
assumptions then rejecting the significance of this event is
ridiculously unreasonable.

> or sabotage...maybe someone understood you biologically and that you are smart, and wanted to impair your research efforts and trip you up by giving you a weighted coin,

No one knew about this event besides me until it was over.
As my link indicates it was the fair toss of an unbiased coin, an
ordinary quarter tossed edge first at the ceiling with my eyes closed.

> or perhaps installing a robotic air conditioner or other wind-influencing device in the room you were in to influence the coin to behave unusually. Someone might have had access to your DNA to know that you would believe reality is an illusion given an event like that. You shouldn't feel upset or guilty about it if someone did that to you; you might seek justice, but it really isn't your fault, and you survived, if it was indeed sabotage. Is it possible that someone has some sort of measurement device secretly or openly installed in the area that could monitor wind vectors in the room you were in? I didn't fully read this article but it might be relevant to what happned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_tunnel
>
> -Philip
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> --
>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>
>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>> Arthur Schopenhauer

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer