On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:59:52 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Lo, on the 4/29/2022, Tony Cooper did proclaim ...
>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:11:13 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tony Cooper suggested that ...
>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 01:49:27 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, Tony Cooper exclaimed wildly:
>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 23:10:01 -0400, Quinn C
>>>>>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Ken Blake:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:04:23 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The shower in question was old-school: seperate hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You say "old school," but isn't that still most common? Ours are
>>>>>>>> single valve, but I had to choose and pay extra for them when the
>>>>>>>> house was built.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know at least one person (my brother-in law) who prefers separate
>>>>>>>> hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was confused the first time I was in a hotel in North America, because
>>>>>>> the shower was such that one couldn't regulate water flow and
>>>>>>> temperature separately: one handle to turn, from off to cold to hot. It
>>>>>>> didn't help that any markings that might have been there originally were
>>>>>>> worn off.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the "single axis" design in my descriptions.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Over time, I learned that this, with variations, is standard in hotels
>>>>>>> and inns, and also common in homes. How common exactly in homes, I can't
>>>>>>> say, but the majority of the places I've lived had something like that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think I've ever lived anywhere with a shower where the water
>>>>>> flow is adjustable other than by not fully opening the taps. Our
>>>>>> current shower has a single knob that is pulled out to start the water
>>>>>> (and turned to adjust the mix of hot and cold) flow. I could pull it
>>>>>> out partially, I suppose. That would reduce flow, but it would
>>>>>> require standing directly under the shower head to get wet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't understand why anyone would want to adjust the flow.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I can see you don't.
>>>>>
>>>>> I happen to not want to fill the tub in 5 minutes while showering.
>>>>
>>>> I have never been in a shower that regulates water flow,
>>>
>>> Really? Not even in a motel or hotel?
>>
>> Not to my knowledge. I have stayed in places where the water in the
>> shower was not as forceful as in other places, but I would have
>> attributed that to poor design of the plumbing system rather than
>> intended regulation.
>>>
>>>> and never
>>>> been in a shower where the water accumulates enough to cover my pinky
>>>> toe during a shower.
>>>
>>> It's not hard to find examples; quite common in places I've
>>> overnighted.
>>
>> And I would attribute that to a clogged drain.
>
>Sometimes that is a reason, but many many times it is the flowrate into
>the shower that is the issue. The tub does not include pumps to
>increase the pressure at the drain.

I just can't conceive of the tub filling from the shower with the
drain open. I've never seen anything close to that.

If I did, I'd think the cause to be a clogged drain or undersized
pipes from the drain to the main discharge pipe. If the house is on a
septic tank, I'd suspect the dispersal system from the septic tank
needs replacing because the septic tank isn't draining.

>
>>>>> Ther are times when a stinging shower is good, but some shower heads
>>>>> manage that with low flow. It's very easy to find shower heads that
>>>>> give a full shower without requiring full flow.
>>>>
>>>> As far as my knowledge of shower head mechanics goes, a shower head
>>>> cannot produce more flow than the pipe delivering the water to the
>>>> head produces. The shower head design can concentrate the flow or
>>>> disperse the flow, but it cannot increase or decrease the flow.
>>>
>>> The constrictor design is a fixed decrease; this was often available as
>>> an adapter a few years ago to save water with older shower heads.
>>> Newer shower heads generally have this built in. The "rain" style
>>> shower heads may still omit it.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> The relatively
>>>>> inexpensive shower head the landlord provided me can reach the far end
>>>>> of the tub even at the lower flow I prefer.
>>>>
>>>> At the far end of the tub, the water from a properly aimed shower head
>>>> would be directed at your feet if you are standing as one normally
>>>> does when taking a shower. When I shower, I prefer that the water be
>>>> directed higher on my body, so I don't stand at the far end.
>>>
>>> I can have the spray reaching my glutes and even my lower back when I
>>> stand at the far end of the tub. Convenient because the shaving mirror
>>> is at that end, and my lower back is full of knots.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But I suppose in Florida, having too much water is normal.
>>>>
>>>> You do understand that while Florida is bounded by water on three
>>>> sides, that we do not obtain our bathwater from those sources?
>>>
>>> Are your wells empty already?
>>
>> My previous house, where I lived for 30-some years, was on a well. The
>> water came from the aquifier, not the ocean.
>
>How often did it run dry?

Never.

> Were you ever in as bad shape as those using
>Lake Powell for a water supply?
>

>>>> Drifting a bit...we have been reliably informed that standing to
>>>> urinate is done to prove one's masculinity. Is standing to shower a
>>>> similar indicator?
>>>
>>> You like to be annoying, don't you? Did you ask your wife about this?
>>
>> I take the lawyer's approach to that: Never ask a question unless you
>> already know the answer.
>
>/dps
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On 30/04/2022 2:08 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:24:25 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 29/04/2022 10:29 pm, soup wrote:
>>> On 29/04/2022 15:31, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>> On 29/04/2022 2:49 pm, soup wrote:
>>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>
>>>>>    This was a real eyeopener for me, these people are mental.
>>>>
>>>> Did you find a smoking gun? I'm guessing 'no', or you'd have linked to
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> What that leftists are mental?
>>
>> No, I already knew that. I meant unambiguous evidence that Tucker
>> Carlson promotes racist views.
>
> The unambiguous evidence is most easily determined by watching Tucker
> Carlson's program.

Yet again, no actual linkk to actual evidence. If it's so easy to find,
why can nobody post a URL to it?

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:02:04 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Tony Cooper wrote on 4/29/2022 :
>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:31:08 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:54:56 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> lar3ryca scribbled something on Friday the 4/29/2022:
>>>>> On 2022-04-29 02:49, Snidely wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, Tony Cooper exclaimed wildly:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 23:10:01 -0400, Quinn C
>>>>>>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Ken Blake:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:04:23 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The shower in question was old-school: seperate hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You say "old school," but isn't that still most common? Ours are
>>>>>>>>> single valve, but I had to choose and pay extra for them when the
>>>>>>>>> house was built.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know at least one person (my brother-in law) who prefers separate
>>>>>>>>> hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was confused the first time I was in a hotel in North America,
>>>>>>>> because the shower was such that one couldn't regulate water flow and
>>>>>>>> temperature separately: one handle to turn, from off to cold to hot. It
>>>>>>>> didn't help that any markings that might have been there originally
>>>>>>>> were worn off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the "single axis" design in my descriptions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Over time, I learned that this, with variations, is standard in hotels
>>>>>>>> and inns, and also common in homes. How common exactly in homes, I
>>>>>>>> can't say, but the majority of the places I've lived had something like
>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think I've ever lived anywhere with a shower where the water
>>>>>>> flow is adjustable other than by not fully opening the taps.  Our
>>>>>>> current shower has a single knob that is pulled out to start the water
>>>>>>> (and turned to adjust the mix of hot and cold) flow.  I could pull it
>>>>>>> out partially, I suppose.  That would reduce flow, but it would
>>>>>>> require standing directly under the shower head to get wet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't understand why anyone would want to adjust the flow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I can see you don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I happen to not want to fill the tub in 5 minutes while showering.
>>>>>
>>>>> While shower/bathtub combinations are common, I don't understand why you
>>>>> would shower with the stopper in the tub closed.
>>>>
>>>> You don't need to use the stopper when the water is flowing in faster
>>>> than the drain can remove it. And with the single-axis valve, that
>>>> happens at any temperature not associated with pain.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's never been my experience in any in-tub shower I've ever used,
>>> whether in hotels, apartments, or houses.
>>
>> I'm not sure what a "single-axis valve" is, but the bathroom I use
>> (shower in tub) has a single control. Even an unusually long shower
>> would not result in more than an inch of water standing. If that.
>
>Are you using less than a gallon per minute? Otherwise, I am quite
>surprised.

I have no idea, and I'm not interested enough to get a bucket and a
stopwatch and go find out.

Jeez, Snide, I've taken daily showers for over a three quarters of a
century. I've taken showers in most of the states in the US, in
Central America, in Europe, in Africa, and in several of the Caribbean
islands. Many have been in tub/shower combinations.

I have never known the gpm of water dispensed from the shower head of
any shower I've ever taken. I have never noticed the water level in
the tub to be more than toenail high.

At the moment I can only recall one bad shower experience in all of
the years I've taken showers. In 1969, we stayed at hotel Dublin that
did not have en suite facilities. The shower had a coin-operated
device that controlled the water. I think it took 10 p coins.

I took a coin with me to the bathroom, put in the slot, and started to
shower. When I was well-lathered up, the water stopped. I had to
return to the room to get another coin, but found I didn't have one.

My wife went down to the desk and got some coins, but by the time I
got back to the bathroom the two shower stalls were occupied by other
guests. The lather had dried, but I rinsed off at the sink and got
dressed. I felt sticky and uncomfortable the rest of the day.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 04:44:09 +0100, Richard Heathfield
<rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 30/04/2022 2:08 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:24:25 +0100, Richard Heathfield
>> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29/04/2022 10:29 pm, soup wrote:
>>>> On 29/04/2022 15:31, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>> On 29/04/2022 2:49 pm, soup wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>    This was a real eyeopener for me, these people are mental.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you find a smoking gun? I'm guessing 'no', or you'd have linked to
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> What that leftists are mental?
>>>
>>> No, I already knew that. I meant unambiguous evidence that Tucker
>>> Carlson promotes racist views.
>>
>> The unambiguous evidence is most easily determined by watching Tucker
>> Carlson's program.
>
>Yet again, no actual linkk to actual evidence. If it's so easy to find,
>why can nobody post a URL to it?

If I wanted evidence that Nick Griffin is a racist, I would not rely
on you to provide a URL to provide it. I can find sufficient evidence
with a few keystrokes.

I assume you can do the same in determining if Tucker Carlson is a
racist.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On 2022-04-29 22:32, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:02:04 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tony Cooper wrote on 4/29/2022 :
>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:31:08 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 13:54:56 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> lar3ryca scribbled something on Friday the 4/29/2022:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-29 02:49, Snidely wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, Tony Cooper exclaimed wildly:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 23:10:01 -0400, Quinn C
>>>>>>>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Ken Blake:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:04:23 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The shower in question was old-school: seperate hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You say "old school," but isn't that still most common? Ours are
>>>>>>>>>> single valve, but I had to choose and pay extra for them when the
>>>>>>>>>> house was built.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know at least one person (my brother-in law) who prefers separate
>>>>>>>>>> hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was confused the first time I was in a hotel in North America,
>>>>>>>>> because the shower was such that one couldn't regulate water flow and
>>>>>>>>> temperature separately: one handle to turn, from off to cold to hot. It
>>>>>>>>> didn't help that any markings that might have been there originally
>>>>>>>>> were worn off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's the "single axis" design in my descriptions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Over time, I learned that this, with variations, is standard in hotels
>>>>>>>>> and inns, and also common in homes. How common exactly in homes, I
>>>>>>>>> can't say, but the majority of the places I've lived had something like
>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think I've ever lived anywhere with a shower where the water
>>>>>>>> flow is adjustable other than by not fully opening the taps.  Our
>>>>>>>> current shower has a single knob that is pulled out to start the water
>>>>>>>> (and turned to adjust the mix of hot and cold) flow.  I could pull it
>>>>>>>> out partially, I suppose.  That would reduce flow, but it would
>>>>>>>> require standing directly under the shower head to get wet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't understand why anyone would want to adjust the flow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I can see you don't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I happen to not want to fill the tub in 5 minutes while showering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While shower/bathtub combinations are common, I don't understand why you
>>>>>> would shower with the stopper in the tub closed.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't need to use the stopper when the water is flowing in faster
>>>>> than the drain can remove it. And with the single-axis valve, that
>>>>> happens at any temperature not associated with pain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's never been my experience in any in-tub shower I've ever used,
>>>> whether in hotels, apartments, or houses.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what a "single-axis valve" is, but the bathroom I use
>>> (shower in tub) has a single control. Even an unusually long shower
>>> would not result in more than an inch of water standing. If that.
>>
>> Are you using less than a gallon per minute? Otherwise, I am quite
>> surprised.
>
> I have no idea, and I'm not interested enough to get a bucket and a
> stopwatch and go find out.
>
> Jeez, Snide, I've taken daily showers for over a three quarters of a
> century. I've taken showers in most of the states in the US, in
> Central America, in Europe, in Africa, and in several of the Caribbean
> islands. Many have been in tub/shower combinations.
>
> I have never known the gpm of water dispensed from the shower head of
> any shower I've ever taken. I have never noticed the water level in
> the tub to be more than toenail high.

I'm with you on this. I haven't had a shower in a tub since mid 2010,
but prior to that, I've had plenty, and my showers have always been full
blast. Never has the water in any of those tubs come up to the top of my
toes.

My only thought on this is that M. Snidely has a semi-blocked drain, and
could well benefit from calling in someone with a drain camera and snake.

On 30/04/22 13:44, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 2:08 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:24:25 +0100, Richard Heathfield
>> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29/04/2022 10:29 pm, soup wrote:
>>>> On 29/04/2022 15:31, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>> On 29/04/2022 2:49 pm, soup wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> This was a real eyeopener for me, these people are mental.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you find a smoking gun? I'm guessing 'no', or you'd have
>>>>> linked to it.
>>>>
>>>> What that leftists are mental?
>>>
>>> No, I already knew that. I meant unambiguous evidence that
>>> Tucker Carlson promotes racist views.
>>
>> The unambiguous evidence is most easily determined by watching
>> Tucker Carlson's program.
>
> Yet again, no actual linkk to actual evidence. If it's so easy to
> find, why can nobody post a URL to it?

Here are two. It's not hard to find more. You could watch his program,
as Tony suggested, but that would involve the unpleasant experience of
listening to Fox.

<https://bfy.tw/SzVZ>

<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/10/tucker-carlson-fox-news-united-states-race>

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 30/04/2022 5:59 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 04:44:09 +0100, Richard Heathfield
> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 30/04/2022 2:08 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:24:25 +0100, Richard Heathfield
>>> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 29/04/2022 10:29 pm, soup wrote:
>>>>> On 29/04/2022 15:31, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/04/2022 2:49 pm, soup wrote:
>>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>    This was a real eyeopener for me, these people are mental.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you find a smoking gun? I'm guessing 'no', or you'd have linked to
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What that leftists are mental?
>>>>
>>>> No, I already knew that. I meant unambiguous evidence that Tucker
>>>> Carlson promotes racist views.
>>>
>>> The unambiguous evidence is most easily determined by watching Tucker
>>> Carlson's program.
>>
>> Yet again, no actual linkk to actual evidence. If it's so easy to find,
>> why can nobody post a URL to it?
>
> If I wanted evidence that Nick Griffin is a racist, I would not rely
> on you to provide a URL to provide it. I can find sufficient evidence
> with a few keystrokes.

If I made a claim, I would not rely on you to provide supporting
evidence. Let those who made the claim support it.

> I assume you can do the same in determining if Tucker Carlson is a
> racist.

I'm not the one who made the claim.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

On 30/04/2022 6:44 am, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 30/04/22 13:44, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 30/04/2022 2:08 am, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:24:25 +0100, Richard Heathfield
>>> <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 29/04/2022 10:29 pm, soup wrote:
>>>>> On 29/04/2022 15:31, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/04/2022 2:49 pm, soup wrote:
>>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 15:08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was a real eyeopener for me, these people are mental.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you find a smoking gun? I'm guessing 'no', or you'd have
>>>>>> linked to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What that leftists are mental?
>>>>
>>>> No, I already knew that. I meant unambiguous evidence that
>>>> Tucker Carlson promotes racist views.
>>>
>>> The unambiguous evidence is most easily determined by watching
>>> Tucker Carlson's program.
>>
>> Yet again, no actual linkk to actual evidence. If it's so easy to
>> find, why can nobody post a URL to it?
>
> Here are two. It's not hard to find more. You could watch his program,
> as Tony suggested, but that would involve the unpleasant experience of
> listening to Fox.
>
> <https://bfy.tw/SzVZ>

That didn't work.

> <https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/10/tucker-carlson-fox-news-united-states-race>

That was a long article in which Carlson's opposition to mass
immigration is cited over and again. So what? There's a huge difference
between racism and opposition to mass immigration. Or do you equate
those two? If so, you haven't thought through the implications.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Just this Friday, Tony Cooper explained that ...
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:59:52 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Lo, on the 4/29/2022, Tony Cooper did proclaim ...
>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:11:13 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tony Cooper suggested that ...
>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 01:49:27 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, Tony Cooper exclaimed wildly:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 23:10:01 -0400, Quinn C
>>>>>>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Ken Blake:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:04:23 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The shower in question was old-school: seperate hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You say "old school," but isn't that still most common? Ours are
>>>>>>>>> single valve, but I had to choose and pay extra for them when the
>>>>>>>>> house was built.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know at least one person (my brother-in law) who prefers separate
>>>>>>>>> hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was confused the first time I was in a hotel in North America,
>>>>>>>> because the shower was such that one couldn't regulate water flow and
>>>>>>>> temperature separately: one handle to turn, from off to cold to hot.
>>>>>>>> It didn't help that any markings that might have been there originally
>>>>>>>> were worn off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the "single axis" design in my descriptions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Over time, I learned that this, with variations, is standard in hotels
>>>>>>>> and inns, and also common in homes. How common exactly in homes, I
>>>>>>>> can't say, but the majority of the places I've lived had something
>>>>>>>> like that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think I've ever lived anywhere with a shower where the water
>>>>>>> flow is adjustable other than by not fully opening the taps. Our
>>>>>>> current shower has a single knob that is pulled out to start the water
>>>>>>> (and turned to adjust the mix of hot and cold) flow. I could pull it
>>>>>>> out partially, I suppose. That would reduce flow, but it would
>>>>>>> require standing directly under the shower head to get wet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't understand why anyone would want to adjust the flow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I can see you don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I happen to not want to fill the tub in 5 minutes while showering.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never been in a shower that regulates water flow,
>>>>
>>>> Really? Not even in a motel or hotel?
>>>
>>> Not to my knowledge. I have stayed in places where the water in the
>>> shower was not as forceful as in other places, but I would have
>>> attributed that to poor design of the plumbing system rather than
>>> intended regulation.
>>>>
>>>>> and never
>>>>> been in a shower where the water accumulates enough to cover my pinky
>>>>> toe during a shower.
>>>>
>>>> It's not hard to find examples; quite common in places I've
>>>> overnighted.
>>>
>>> And I would attribute that to a clogged drain.
>>
>> Sometimes that is a reason, but many many times it is the flowrate into
>> the shower that is the issue. The tub does not include pumps to
>> increase the pressure at the drain.
>
> I just can't conceive of the tub filling from the shower with the
> drain open. I've never seen anything close to that.
>
> If I did, I'd think the cause to be a clogged drain or undersized
> pipes from the drain to the main discharge pipe. If the house is on a
> septic tank, I'd suspect the dispersal system from the septic tank
> needs replacing because the septic tank isn't draining.
>

I'm sorry you are having trouble visualizing this. It's quite common
in hotel rooms I've been in, and I can tell which ones have stopped
drains, which haven't been many.

To help you, consider taking a 5-gallon bucket full of water, pouring
it as quickly as you can into your tub, and see if it runs out of the
tub as fast as you pour it in.

/dps

--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022, at 18:04:51, Snidely posted:
>After serious thinking Tony Cooper wrote :
>>
>> Help me out here. What's a "single-axis valve" in this context, and
>> as opposed to what.
>
>You don't understand my description? 1 control, usually rotary. The
>axis of the rotation is the single axis.
>
>> The shower I use has one controlling part as shown in this link. Pull
>> it out, and the water starts. Turn it left or right to control the
>> hot/cold mix.
>
>That would be a dual-axis valve. The axis of the rotation, and the
>axis of the translation (x-y movement).
>
That is one single axis which is shared by the two movements. An axis is
a straight line. Tony's rotation is rotation about that line, and Tony's
pushing and pulling is translation along that same line. "Dual-axis"
would imply two different lines. Does that help?
>>
>>
>>https://www.deltafaucet.com/dw/image/v2/BFJJ_PRD/on/demandware.static/-
>>/Sites-delta-master-catalog/default/dw19a36440/images/large/H71-B1.png?
>>sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit

--
Paul

Paul Wolff was thinking very hard :
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022, at 18:04:51, Snidely posted:

>>That would be a dual-axis valve. The axis of the rotation, and the axis of
>> the translation (x-y movement).
>>
> That is one single axis which is shared by the two movements. An axis is a
> straight line. Tony's rotation is rotation about that line, and Tony's
> pushing and pulling is translation along that same line. "Dual-axis" would
> imply two different lines. Does that help?

Sorry, mathematics, physics, and engineering allows axes to be where
they are needed. In this case, there are two axes which happen to be
colinear. Try plotting a phase space diagram and try to figure out
where those axes are in "normal" space.

/dps

--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean

On 4/29/2022 1:56 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> CDB wrote:
>>>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>> Quinn C wrote:

>>>>>> That people who despise one identifiable group that is an
>>>>>> "other" to them tend to also despise other such groups is
>>>>>> a well-known correlation, so "orthogonal" seems misplaced.

>>>>> A necessary part of despising some group is to say:

>>>>> "Those people are all alike!"

>>>>> Don't your words echo a similar sentiment?

>>>> Yabbut, the group in question is defined only by its behaviour.
>>>> In that sense, its members are all alike, and it isn't
>>>> improbable that they would share a related tendency.

>>> That's worded as though you are introducing some distinction, but
>>> I'm d@mned if I can actually see an effective distinction in what
>>> you said.

>> Your use of "those people are all alike" in that context implied to
>> me that you saw it as an unfair characterisation. I was pointing
>> out that grouping people according to their (objectionable)
>> behaviour is not always unfair. Hitler was a vegetarian and kind
>> to dogs, apparently, but in a more cogent sense he, Himmler,
>> Goering, and Goebbels were all alike. Mengele too.

> Careful. If you agree with Hitler's treatment of dogs, someone might
> rake you over the coals for being pro-Nazi.

> Ask me how I know.

Do tell.

On 4/29/2022 1:46 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> lar3ryca wrote:

[diversity in Jeopardy, or vice versa]

>>> And once, either tonight or last night, has accepted the answer
>>> without the contestant having to repeat it in the form of a
>>> question.

>> Alex did that in "single" Jeopardy sometimes. In the second stage
>> it was sudden death.

>> I got more answers last night than Mattea Roach did. Of course, I
>> didn't have to ring in.

> As did I. One that surprised me (may not have been last night's) was
> the clue that included something like "how many fit on the head of a
> pin), which none of the contestants got.

Yes, very strange. I ace the old-folk categories, but lose heavily on
Television Comedies or Movies of the 21st Century, for instance.

On 4/29/2022 9:13 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:

[April showers]

> Drifting a bit...we have been reliably informed that standing to
> urinate is done to prove one's masculinity. Is standing to shower a
> similar indicator?

I sit on a stool in the tub for mine. It's possible my testosterone
levels have gone down.

--
Use it or lose it.

On 4/29/2022 4:58 PM, Lewis wrote:
> Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>> As far as my knowledge of shower head mechanics goes, a shower
>> head cannot produce more flow than the pipe delivering the water to
>> the head produces. The shower head design can concentrate the flow
>> or disperse the flow, but it cannot increase or decrease the flow.

> Shower heads constrict the flow in a misguided "water saving"
> measure that prevents you getting the full amount of water out of the
> pipe, making showers take longer since you have to stand there for
> much longer to get all the soap rinsed off and the shampoo out of
> your hair.

> It takes several minutes to fill the kitchen sink, long enough that
> the water has cooled considerably by the time the sink fills up.

> Maybe Florida doesn't required low-flow showers and sinks like the
> rest of the country?

We do. Not sure if it's federal or provincial. Before I graduated to a
hand-held, a renovator had installed a water-saving showerhead on me; it
contained a metal baffle that was easy enough to remove.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:37:43 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Just this Friday, Tony Cooper explained that ...
>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:59:52 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lo, on the 4/29/2022, Tony Cooper did proclaim ...
>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:11:13 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tony Cooper suggested that ...
>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 01:49:27 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thursday, Tony Cooper exclaimed wildly:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 23:10:01 -0400, Quinn C
>>>>>>>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Ken Blake:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:04:23 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The shower in question was old-school: seperate hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You say "old school," but isn't that still most common? Ours are
>>>>>>>>>> single valve, but I had to choose and pay extra for them when the
>>>>>>>>>> house was built.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know at least one person (my brother-in law) who prefers separate
>>>>>>>>>> hot and cold valves.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was confused the first time I was in a hotel in North America,
>>>>>>>>> because the shower was such that one couldn't regulate water flow and
>>>>>>>>> temperature separately: one handle to turn, from off to cold to hot.
>>>>>>>>> It didn't help that any markings that might have been there originally
>>>>>>>>> were worn off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's the "single axis" design in my descriptions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Over time, I learned that this, with variations, is standard in hotels
>>>>>>>>> and inns, and also common in homes. How common exactly in homes, I
>>>>>>>>> can't say, but the majority of the places I've lived had something
>>>>>>>>> like that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think I've ever lived anywhere with a shower where the water
>>>>>>>> flow is adjustable other than by not fully opening the taps. Our
>>>>>>>> current shower has a single knob that is pulled out to start the water
>>>>>>>> (and turned to adjust the mix of hot and cold) flow. I could pull it
>>>>>>>> out partially, I suppose. That would reduce flow, but it would
>>>>>>>> require standing directly under the shower head to get wet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't understand why anyone would want to adjust the flow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I can see you don't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I happen to not want to fill the tub in 5 minutes while showering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have never been in a shower that regulates water flow,
>>>>>
>>>>> Really? Not even in a motel or hotel?
>>>>
>>>> Not to my knowledge. I have stayed in places where the water in the
>>>> shower was not as forceful as in other places, but I would have
>>>> attributed that to poor design of the plumbing system rather than
>>>> intended regulation.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and never
>>>>>> been in a shower where the water accumulates enough to cover my pinky
>>>>>> toe during a shower.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not hard to find examples; quite common in places I've
>>>>> overnighted.
>>>>
>>>> And I would attribute that to a clogged drain.
>>>
>>> Sometimes that is a reason, but many many times it is the flowrate into
>>> the shower that is the issue. The tub does not include pumps to
>>> increase the pressure at the drain.
>>
>> I just can't conceive of the tub filling from the shower with the
>> drain open. I've never seen anything close to that.
>>
>> If I did, I'd think the cause to be a clogged drain or undersized
>> pipes from the drain to the main discharge pipe. If the house is on a
>> septic tank, I'd suspect the dispersal system from the septic tank
>> needs replacing because the septic tank isn't draining.
>>
>
>I'm sorry you are having trouble visualizing this. It's quite common
>in hotel rooms I've been in, and I can tell which ones have stopped
>drains, which haven't been many.
>
>To help you, consider taking a 5-gallon bucket full of water, pouring
>it as quickly as you can into your tub, and see if it runs out of the
>tub as fast as you pour it in.

That would not replicate what happens in a shower.

The five gallons would have to be poured in over a period of 90
seconds to two minutes, not "as quickly as you can", to produce the
shower effect.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

* Peter Moylan:

> On 30/04/22 07:11, Snidely wrote:
>> Tony Cooper suggested that ...
>
>>> At the far end of the tub, the water from a properly aimed shower
>>> head would be directed at your feet if you are standing as one
>>> normally does when taking a shower. When I shower, I prefer that
>>> the water be directed higher on my body, so I don't stand at the
>>> far end.
>>
>> I can have the spray reaching my glutes and even my lower back when I
>> stand at the far end of the tub. Convenient because the shaving
>> mirror is at that end, and my lower back is full of knots.
>
> My shower head is at the end of the hose. That lets me direct the flow
> wherever I want, including under the beard and under the armpits when
> I'm rinsing. I'd hate to go back to a fixed shower head.

A fixed shower head was another surprise when I came to North America. I
had only seen those in communal showers before.

--
Behold, honored adversaries,
We are the instruments of your joyful death.
Consu war chant -- J. Scalzi, Old Man's War

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:38:26 -0400
Quinn C <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

> * lar3ryca:
>
> > On 2022-04-29 02:49, Snidely wrote:
> >> On Thursday, Tony Cooper exclaimed wildly:
> >>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 23:10:01 -0400, Quinn C
> >>> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
[]
> >>
> >> I happen to not want to fill the tub in 5 minutes while showering.
> >
> > While shower/bathtub combinations are common, I don't understand why you
> > would shower with the stopper in the tub closed.

A bit late; I'd do that to save the water for garden plants and/or to be able to rinse & scrub my feet.
>
> I didn't write the above this time, but I find literalists quite tiring
> when I write something like it.
>

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:30:11 -0400
CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/29/2022 1:56 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
> > CDB wrote:
> >> Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >>> CDB wrote:
> >>>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>
> >>>>>> That people who despise one identifiable group that is an
> >>>>>> "other" to them tend to also despise other such groups is
> >>>>>> a well-known correlation, so "orthogonal" seems misplaced.
>
> >>>>> A necessary part of despising some group is to say:
>
> >>>>> "Those people are all alike!"
>
> >>>>> Don't your words echo a similar sentiment?
>
> >>>> Yabbut, the group in question is defined only by its behaviour.
> >>>> In that sense, its members are all alike, and it isn't
> >>>> improbable that they would share a related tendency.
>
> >>> That's worded as though you are introducing some distinction, but
> >>> I'm d@mned if I can actually see an effective distinction in what
> >>> you said.
>
> >> Your use of "those people are all alike" in that context implied to
> >> me that you saw it as an unfair characterisation. I was pointing
> >> out that grouping people according to their (objectionable)
> >> behaviour is not always unfair. Hitler was a vegetarian and kind
> >> to dogs, apparently, but in a more cogent sense he, Himmler,
> >> Goering, and Goebbels were all alike. Mengele too.
>
> > Careful. If you agree with Hitler's treatment of dogs, someone might
> > rake you over the coals for being pro-Nazi.
>
> > Ask me how I know.
>
> Do tell.
>
But let's not bother m.n.i

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:54:24 -0400
CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/29/2022 4:58 PM, Lewis wrote:
> > Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> As far as my knowledge of shower head mechanics goes, a shower
> >> head cannot produce more flow than the pipe delivering the water to
> >> the head produces. The shower head design can concentrate the flow
> >> or disperse the flow, but it cannot increase or decrease the flow.
>
> > Shower heads constrict the flow in a misguided "water saving"
> > measure that prevents you getting the full amount of water out of the
> > pipe, making showers take longer since you have to stand there for
> > much longer to get all the soap rinsed off and the shampoo out of
> > your hair.
>
> > It takes several minutes to fill the kitchen sink, long enough that
> > the water has cooled considerably by the time the sink fills up.
>
> > Maybe Florida doesn't required low-flow showers and sinks like the
> > rest of the country?
>
> We do. Not sure if it's federal or provincial. Before I graduated to a
> hand-held, a renovator had installed a water-saving showerhead on me; it
> contained a metal baffle that was easy enough to remove.
>
>
I've fitted one, it's a great way to feel smug about saving the planet.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 5:29:17 PM UTC-4, soup wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 15:31, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> > On 29/04/2022 2:49 pm, soup wrote:
> >> On 27/04/2022 15:08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

[nothing whatsoever that was quoted]

> >> This was a real eyeopener for me, these people are mental.
> > Did you find a smoking gun? I'm guessing 'no', or you'd have linked to it.
> What that leftists are mental?
>
> https://www.tiktok.com/@libsoftiktok_/video/7082992595915345157?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1&lang=en

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 5:38:35 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> My typically weak subject matters would've held me back yesterday as
> well. I couldn't answer any but the few easily guessable ones in poetry,
> movies and English history in the first round.
>
> Jeopardy has taught me how important English history is to Americans. In
> Germany, the renaissance in Italy and the French revolution are deemed
> of great importance for our understanding of European history, but from
> the UK, probably only the industrial revolution. Usually, what happened
> there didn't have that much impact on us.

It looks like the questions are set at high-performing high school level,
plus pop culture. Probably nothing that wasn't covered in Biology, Chemistry,
and Physics class, or at worst A.P. Bio, Chem, and Phy. (*A.P. Bio* was a
quirky sitcom that unfortunately migrated to cable.) Always excepting
classical music and, usually, geography.

Last night they were preempted (bumped to 3:35 am) by the NFL Draft.

> > One that surprised me (may not have been last night's) was the clue that
> > included something like "how many fit on the head of a pin), which none
> > of the contestants got.
>
> That was also a very obvious one to me, and only worth $800 in DJ.

That was on a day when I was watching an old movie instead. Presumably
it wasn't about angels?

Hilarious was the one where they wanted to know what order voles are in,
but because the clue included "insectivore" the three of them cycled through
carni-, omni-, and herbivore. Ken was most appropriately smug at that point.

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 7:24:33 PM UTC-4, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 10:29 pm, soup wrote:
> > On 29/04/2022 15:31, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >> On 29/04/2022 2:49 pm, soup wrote:
> >>> On 27/04/2022 15:08, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

[again, nothing that is quoted below]

> >>> This was a real eyeopener for me, these people are mental.
> >> Did you find a smoking gun? I'm guessing 'no', or you'd have linked to
> >> it.
> > What that leftists are mental?
>
> No, I already knew that. I meant unambiguous evidence that Tucker
> Carlson promotes racist views.
>
> Peter Moylan suggested that Carlson is known for promoting racist views.
> He may well be known for that, but then NASA are well known for faking
> the moon landing. Something being well known doesn't make it true.
>
> Hitchens' Razor applies.

Alternatively, in his extensive careful scrutiny of Carlson's emissions,
Heathfield has failed to recognize their racistness.

Apparently he isn't bothered by their homophobia and their pro-Putinism,
which is such that they are rebroadcast on Russian state TV..

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 9:02:36 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 30/04/22 06:52, Lewis wrote:

> > Most bathrooms (and ALL bathrooms I ever saw in the US up until
> > sometime in the 1990s) have had a bathtub with a shower in the tub.
> > Before then the only time I saw showers without tubs was in locker
> > rooms (mostly in TV and movies), at least in the US.
>
> The only place I see showers inside tubs is in hotels; and only, I
> think, in a minority of hotels. Getting into and out of the tub is a
> safety hazard, in my experience.

The little hotel near the university in Antwerp where conference
attendees were put up gave me one of their few rooms with bathtub
(and no shower) because they thought Americans prefer it that way.
It was a bit inconvenient.

The room at the B&B near the university in Munich had a shower stall only.

At Brasenose College, there was a wet-room that would have been shared
by another room on the hall if it had been occupied. The arrangement was
like what Janet described somewhere above: About half the space was
empty, with a shower head and a curtain to draw, but nothing on the floor
to delimit the shower area from the rest of the space, and a drain about in
the middle.

> Our present home has two bathrooms. The ensuite one has a shower but no
> tub. The other one has a shower separate from the tub. (And the tub is
> used, these days, to hold pot plants.)

Recreational pot is now legal in both New Jersey (the first shops opened
last week) and New York (they're still working out the details). One might
dedicate a bathtub to holding potted plants.

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 9:11:45 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:

> My shower head is at the end of the hose. That lets me direct the flow
> wherever I want, including under the beard and under the armpits when
> I'm rinsing. I'd hate to go back to a fixed shower head.

My limited experience with that (European) arrangement suggests
that it requires three hands to do it efficiently/effectively.