* Quinn C:

> I don't think it's particularly common where I live, but from
> discussions online I gather that in some regions it is, and in those
> places, it wouldn't be unusual to say things like "that dude over there"
> or "a dude called me".

Comedian River Butcher, who now identifies as a man, made a special "A
Different Kind of Dude".

<https://youtu.be/vgWBjutaBfw>

"I mostly use they/them pronouns these days just to keep people
questioning whether they wanna talk to me or not. It's, like, a very
great buffer."

--
For spirits when they please
Can either sex assume, or both; so soft
And uncompounded is their essence pure,
-- Milton, Paradise Lost

On 4/18/2022 7:10 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> * Quinn C:

>> I don't think it's particularly common where I live, but from
>> discussions online I gather that in some regions it is, and in
>> those places, it wouldn't be unusual to say things like "that dude
>> over there" or "a dude called me".

> Comedian River Butcher, who now identifies as a man, made a special
> "A Different Kind of Dude".

> <https://youtu.be/vgWBjutaBfw>

> "I mostly use they/them pronouns these days just to keep people
> questioning whether they wanna talk to me or not. It's, like, a very
> great buffer."

Are you implying that people who don't agree with your preachments on
pronouns should quit talking to you? That would reduce your flock by a
certain margin.

--
While rivers everywhere are being butchered.

On 4/14/2022 21:43, Quinn C wrote:
> * Michael Trew:
>>
>> All fair points. When I think of "trans-gender", I think of the pushy
>> type trying to make a statement, as typically depicted. Average people,
>> I wouldn't have a problem with.
>
> If you imagine trans people "as they are depicted" rather than "as they
> come", you already have a problem. Probably starting with too little
> exposure. Having met several dozen of them personally, I don't have an
> idea of a typical trans woman any more.

I'm going to be direct, although veering slightly off topic... things
like this are really where I have an issue.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/trans-swimmer-lia-thomas-speaks-scrutiny-controversy-rcna18503

Because, as prior discussed, men have different bodies biologically.
Even with hormone therapy, biological men have more upper body strength,
etc. That gives Lia Thomas an unfair advantage in the sport competing
with women.

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 7:47:55 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:

> > I'd consider wardrobe choice as an aspect of behavior. Maybe you're
> > thinking only of mannerisms ... aha, a hook to hang my *Jeopardy!*
> > observation on! --- The current champion whom Ken is drooling over,
> > the Canadian woman,
>
> Well, she *is* a sweetheart.
>
> > gesticulates like a gay man!
>
> I guess that's a way to describe it. I did find it distracting a few
> times, but hadn't thought of that comparison.

Did you catch the limp wrist -- several times -- yesterday?

> > (Not surprisingly,
> > she was the only one who answered "Seven Years War" instead of
> > the parochial "French and Indian War," which was merely the American
> > aspect of what Churchill called the actual first World War, some 150
> > years before WWI.) Also, she sounds insecure about almost every
> > answer, because she has extreme uptalk.
>
> Her facial expression also. She doesn't seem to lack confidence when
> she's talking freely, so I'm not sure where that comes from. It could be
> a learned behavior (I've myself learned to not be too dry when
> correcting people, because it gets interpreted as arrogance) or a
> reaction to pressure.

Yesterday's runner-up lost only because of incredibly stupid wagering.
Ken even pointed out that with her last answer she was above half of
the champ's total, so she wouldn't even have to risk her whole total to
win -- and she had the right answer (so did I), and _she_ didn't -- but
because she wanted $2000 more than she wanted $1000, she missed
out on over $20,000 and the opportunity to come back. She was also
Canadian.

* CDB:

> On 4/18/2022 7:10 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Quinn C:
>
>>> I don't think it's particularly common where I live, but from
>>> discussions online I gather that in some regions it is, and in
>>> those places, it wouldn't be unusual to say things like "that dude
>>> over there" or "a dude called me".
>
>> Comedian River Butcher, who now identifies as a man, made a special
>> "A Different Kind of Dude".
>
>> <https://youtu.be/vgWBjutaBfw>
>
>> "I mostly use they/them pronouns these days just to keep people
>> questioning whether they wanna talk to me or not. It's, like, a very
>> great buffer."
>
> Are you implying that people who don't agree with your preachments on
> pronouns

If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as "preachments", you're
free to keep your distance. Also don't expect good interactions with
black people if you won't give in to "woke preachments" not to use the
N-word.

> should quit talking to you? That would reduce your flock by a
> certain margin.

I wasn't implying anything. What Butcher is trying to say, in my
understanding, is that if people are uncomfortable talking to them
because of the simple request of certain pronouns, those people aren't a
great loss.

Sure, I quoted it because I have some sympathy for that.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 7:47:55 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Peter T. Daniels:
>
>>> I'd consider wardrobe choice as an aspect of behavior. Maybe you're
>>> thinking only of mannerisms ... aha, a hook to hang my *Jeopardy!*
>>> observation on! --- The current champion whom Ken is drooling over,
>>> the Canadian woman,
>>
>> Well, she *is* a sweetheart.
>>
>>> gesticulates like a gay man!
>>
>> I guess that's a way to describe it. I did find it distracting a few
>> times, but hadn't thought of that comparison.
>
> Did you catch the limp wrist -- several times -- yesterday?

Yes.
>>> (Not surprisingly,
>>> she was the only one who answered "Seven Years War" instead of
>>> the parochial "French and Indian War," which was merely the American
>>> aspect of what Churchill called the actual first World War, some 150
>>> years before WWI.) Also, she sounds insecure about almost every
>>> answer, because she has extreme uptalk.
>>
>> Her facial expression also. She doesn't seem to lack confidence when
>> she's talking freely, so I'm not sure where that comes from. It could be
>> a learned behavior (I've myself learned to not be too dry when
>> correcting people, because it gets interpreted as arrogance) or a
>> reaction to pressure.
>
> Yesterday's runner-up lost only because of incredibly stupid wagering.
> Ken even pointed out that with her last answer she was above half of
> the champ's total, so she wouldn't even have to risk her whole total to
> win -- and she had the right answer (so did I), and _she_ didn't -- but
> because she wanted $2000 more than she wanted $1000, she missed
> out on over $20,000 and the opportunity to come back. She was also
> Canadian.

It was a bit more complex than that. The one that had the right answer
and could've won was in third place and couldn't reach the leader even
with a doubled score. But since the runner-up had more than half of
Mattea's score, Mattea had to wager more than 4000, which sent her into
territory reachable for the third with her wrong response.

So not glaringly stupid, but suggesting that this candidate hadn't
studied the wagering process beforehand.

Besides, the clue was pretty darn obvious - I was expecting three
correct responses.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On 4/19/2022 12:19 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> * CDB:
>> Quinn C wrote:
>>> * Quinn C:

>>>> I don't think it's particularly common where I live, but from
>>>> discussions online I gather that in some regions it is, and in
>>>> those places, it wouldn't be unusual to say things like "that
>>>> dude over there" or "a dude called me".

>>> Comedian River Butcher, who now identifies as a man, made a
>>> special "A Different Kind of Dude".

>>> <https://youtu.be/vgWBjutaBfw>

>>> "I mostly use they/them pronouns these days just to keep people
>>> questioning whether they wanna talk to me or not. It's, like, a
>>> very great buffer."

>> Are you implying that people who don't agree with your preachments
>> on pronouns

> If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as "preachments",
> you're free to keep your distance. Also don't expect good
> interactions with black people if you won't give in to "woke
> preachments" not to use the N-word.

A "request" endlessly harped on is a lot like a sermon. Also, the word
goes well with "flock".

As for the N-word, you have pulled a trick that is very common in you,
of comparing things that are not comparable and pretending that you have
scored a point. Identifying your usual practice for what it is, using
an ordinary and unexceptionable word that you dislike, is not at all the
same as as saying the word whose name shall not be spoken; it's more
like calling a Black person Black.

>> should quit talking to you? That would reduce your flock by a
>> certain margin.

> I wasn't implying anything. What Butcher is trying to say, in my
> understanding, is that if people are uncomfortable talking to them
> because of the simple request of certain pronouns, those people
> aren't a great loss.

> Sure, I quoted it because I have some sympathy for that.

* CDB:

> On 4/19/2022 12:19 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * CDB:
>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * Quinn C:
>
>>>>> I don't think it's particularly common where I live, but from
>>>>> discussions online I gather that in some regions it is, and in
>>>>> those places, it wouldn't be unusual to say things like "that
>>>>> dude over there" or "a dude called me".
>
>>>> Comedian River Butcher, who now identifies as a man, made a
>>>> special "A Different Kind of Dude".
>
>>>> <https://youtu.be/vgWBjutaBfw>
>
>>>> "I mostly use they/them pronouns these days just to keep people
>>>> questioning whether they wanna talk to me or not. It's, like, a
>>>> very great buffer."
>
>>> Are you implying that people who don't agree with your preachments
>>> on pronouns
>
>> If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as "preachments",
>> you're free to keep your distance. Also don't expect good
>> interactions with black people if you won't give in to "woke
>> preachments" not to use the N-word.
>
> A "request" endlessly harped on is a lot like a sermon. Also, the word
> goes well with "flock".

I guess it's my mistake thinking that arguments could bring round the
ideologically opposed - whether to language change or to a more
realistic view of gender.

That's the core of what Butcher is saying: either people honor the
request for pronouns without much fuss, or I'm better off without them
in my life.

> As for the N-word, you have pulled a trick that is very common in you,
> of comparing things that are not comparable and pretending that you have
> scored a point. Identifying your usual practice for what it is, using
> an ordinary and unexceptionable word that you dislike, is not at all the
> same as as saying the word whose name shall not be spoken; it's more
> like calling a Black person Black.

That nothing in the world is ever comparable is also the cheapest excuse
for an argument.

And if you still think it's about "a word", I guess you're a lost cause.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 19:28:15 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* CDB:
>
>> On 4/19/2022 12:19 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>>> * CDB:
>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>> * Quinn C:
>>
>>>>>> I don't think it's particularly common where I live, but from
>>>>>> discussions online I gather that in some regions it is, and in
>>>>>> those places, it wouldn't be unusual to say things like "that
>>>>>> dude over there" or "a dude called me".
>>
>>>>> Comedian River Butcher, who now identifies as a man, made a
>>>>> special "A Different Kind of Dude".
>>
>>>>> <https://youtu.be/vgWBjutaBfw>
>>
>>>>> "I mostly use they/them pronouns these days just to keep people
>>>>> questioning whether they wanna talk to me or not. It's, like, a
>>>>> very great buffer."
>>
>>>> Are you implying that people who don't agree with your preachments
>>>> on pronouns
>>
>>> If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as "preachments",
>>> you're free to keep your distance. Also don't expect good
>>> interactions with black people if you won't give in to "woke
>>> preachments" not to use the N-word.
>>
>> A "request" endlessly harped on is a lot like a sermon. Also, the word
>> goes well with "flock".
>
>I guess it's my mistake thinking that arguments could bring round the
>ideologically opposed - whether to language change or to a more
>realistic view of gender.
>
>That's the core of what Butcher is saying: either people honor the
>request for pronouns without much fuss, or I'm better off without them
>in my life.
>
>> As for the N-word, you have pulled a trick that is very common in you,
>> of comparing things that are not comparable and pretending that you have
>> scored a point. Identifying your usual practice for what it is, using
>> an ordinary and unexceptionable word that you dislike, is not at all the
>> same as as saying the word whose name shall not be spoken; it's more
>> like calling a Black person Black.
>
>That nothing in the world is ever comparable is also the cheapest excuse
>for an argument.
>
>And if you still think it's about "a word", I guess you're a lost cause.

You don't see a difference between the use of "Nigger" and the use of
an unwanted pronoun or the word "man" when applied to you?

One very major difference is that the use of the wrong pronoun, or
"man", is only only an offensive use when written/said by someone who
has been informed that these terms are offensive to the person they
are directed to.

No Black person need inform anyone that "Nigger" is offensive.

She/her He/him Man/Woman are offensive only when used under certain
conditions. "Nigger" is offensive under any condtion.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

In article <t3n4nf$1nl5$1@gioia.aioe.org>, bellemarecd@gmail.com says...

> > If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as "preachments",
> > you're free to keep your distance. Also don't expect good
> > interactions with black people if you won't give in to "woke
> > preachments" not to use the N-word.

If you are intent on strawman arguments about identity:

A blonde blue eyed white woman called Anna announces in middle age
that she rejects her birth race as a social imposition, and has re-
identified as black. She identifies with victims of slavery.

She dons makeup,contact lenses, ethnic clothes and an Afro wig,changes
her name to Nkosazana and requests that everyone who engages with her,
acknowledges she is black.

Write your own sermon...

Janet

On 4/19/2022 7:28 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> CDB:
>> Quinn C wrote:
>>> CDB:
>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>> * Quinn C:

>>>>>> I don't think it's particularly common where I live, but
>>>>>> from discussions online I gather that in some regions it
>>>>>> is, and in those places, it wouldn't be unusual to say
>>>>>> things like "that dude over there" or "a dude called me".

>>>>> Comedian River Butcher, who now identifies as a man, made a
>>>>> special "A Different Kind of Dude".

>>>>> <https://youtu.be/vgWBjutaBfw>

>>>>> "I mostly use they/them pronouns these days just to keep
>>>>> people questioning whether they wanna talk to me or not.
>>>>> It's, like, a very great buffer."

>>>> Are you implying that people who don't agree with your
>>>> preachments on pronouns

>>> If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as
>>> "preachments", you're free to keep your distance. Also don't
>>> expect good interactions with black people if you won't give in
>>> to "woke preachments" not to use the N-word.

>> A "request" endlessly harped on is a lot like a sermon. Also, the
>> word goes well with "flock".

> I guess it's my mistake thinking that arguments could bring round
> the ideologically opposed - whether to language change or to a more
> realistic view of gender.

> That's the core of what Butcher is saying: either people honor the
> request for pronouns without much fuss, or I'm better off without
> them in my life.

>> As for the N-word, you have pulled a trick that is very common in
>> you, of comparing things that are not comparable and pretending
>> that you have scored a point. Identifying your usual practice for
>> what it is, using an ordinary and unexceptionable word that you
>> dislike, is not at all the same as as saying the word whose name
>> shall not be spoken; it's more like calling a Black person Black.

> That nothing in the world is ever comparable is also the cheapest
> excuse for an argument.

> And if you still think it's about "a word", I guess you're a lost
> cause.

Thank you for making it clear that your "request" is in fact a threat.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 14:02:40 +0100, Janet <nobody@hame.cock> wrote:

>In article <t3n4nf$1nl5$1@gioia.aioe.org>, bellemarecd@gmail.com says...
>
>> > If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as "preachments",
>> > you're free to keep your distance. Also don't expect good
>> > interactions with black people if you won't give in to "woke
>> > preachments" not to use the N-word.
>
>
> If you are intent on strawman arguments about identity:

Whoa, there, Janet! The above was written by Quinn, but your snippage
shows it was written by CDB. Mistaking the writing of one for the
other is not a trival thing.

>
> A blonde blue eyed white woman called Anna announces in middle age
>that she rejects her birth race as a social imposition, and has re-
>identified as black. She identifies with victims of slavery.
>
> She dons makeup,contact lenses, ethnic clothes and an Afro wig,changes
>her name to Nkosazana and requests that everyone who engages with her,
>acknowledges she is black.
>
> Write your own sermon...
>
> Janet
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

In article <ei306hlvks31nbjav160d30dbniv2bd0dk@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...
> Whoa, there, Janet! The above was written by Quinn, but your snippage
> shows it was written by CDB. Mistaking the writing of one for the
> other is not a trival thing.
>

My bad. Sorry to CDB

Janet

On 4/20/2022 9:02 AM, Janet wrote:
>> Quinn:

>>> If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as
>>> "preachments", you're free to keep your distance. Also don't
>>> expect good interactions with black people if you won't give in
>>> to "woke preachments" not to use the N-word.

> If you are intent on strawman arguments about identity:

> A blonde blue eyed white woman called Anna announces in middle age
> that she rejects her birth race as a social imposition, and has re-
> identified as black. She identifies with victims of slavery.

> She dons makeup,contact lenses, ethnic clothes and an Afro
> wig,changes her name to Nkosazana and requests that everyone who
> engages with her, acknowledges she is black.

> Write your own sermon...

Just wanted to keep the record straight about who said what.

On 4/20/2022 9:48 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 14:02:40 +0100, Janet <nobody@hame.cock> wrote:
>> bellemarecd@gmail.com says...

>>>> If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as "preachments",
>>>> you're free to keep your distance. Also don't expect good
>>>> interactions with black people if you won't give in to "woke
>>>> preachments" not to use the N-word.

>> If you are intent on strawman arguments about identity:

> Whoa, there, Janet! The above was written by Quinn, but your snippage
> shows it was written by CDB. Mistaking the writing of one for the
> other is not a trival thing.

Not for either one of us, I'll wager.

>> A blonde blue eyed white woman called Anna announces in middle age
>> that she rejects her birth race as a social imposition, and has re-
>> identified as black. She identifies with victims of slavery.

>> She dons makeup,contact lenses, ethnic clothes and an Afro wig,changes
>> her name to Nkosazana and requests that everyone who engages with her,
>> acknowledges she is black.

>> Write your own sermon...

>> Janet

On 4/20/2022 10:00 AM, Janet wrote:
> tonycooper214 @gmail.com says...

>> Whoa, there, Janet! The above was written by Quinn, but your
>> snippage shows it was written by CDB. Mistaking the writing of one
>> for the other is not a trival thing.

> My bad. Sorry to CDB

'Sarrigh.

* Tony Cooper:

> She/her He/him Man/Woman are offensive only when used under certain
> conditions. "Nigger" is offensive under any condtion.

Mostly true - there are some conditions about the N-word, too, about the
speaker and the relationship to the listener.

But I agree with the first sentence. And the conditions for "man" and
"he" to be offensive are met when speaking about me. Not to accept that
when I say it is again offensive.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

* CDB, the American:

> On 4/19/2022 7:28 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> CDB:
>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>> CDB:
>>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>>> * Quinn C:
>
>>>>>>> I don't think it's particularly common where I live, but
>>>>>>> from discussions online I gather that in some regions it
>>>>>>> is, and in those places, it wouldn't be unusual to say
>>>>>>> things like "that dude over there" or "a dude called me".
>
>>>>>> Comedian River Butcher, who now identifies as a man, made a
>>>>>> special "A Different Kind of Dude".
>
>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/vgWBjutaBfw>
>
>>>>>> "I mostly use they/them pronouns these days just to keep
>>>>>> people questioning whether they wanna talk to me or not.
>>>>>> It's, like, a very great buffer."
>
>>>>> Are you implying that people who don't agree with your
>>>>> preachments on pronouns
>
>>>> If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as
>>>> "preachments", you're free to keep your distance. Also don't
>>>> expect good interactions with black people if you won't give in
>>>> to "woke preachments" not to use the N-word.
>
>>> A "request" endlessly harped on is a lot like a sermon. Also, the
>>> word goes well with "flock".
>
>> I guess it's my mistake thinking that arguments could bring round
>> the ideologically opposed - whether to language change or to a more
>> realistic view of gender.
>
>> That's the core of what Butcher is saying: either people honor the
>> request for pronouns without much fuss, or I'm better off without
>> them in my life.
>
>>> As for the N-word, you have pulled a trick that is very common in
>>> you, of comparing things that are not comparable and pretending
>>> that you have scored a point. Identifying your usual practice for
>>> what it is, using an ordinary and unexceptionable word that you
>>> dislike, is not at all the same as as saying the word whose name
>>> shall not be spoken; it's more like calling a Black person Black.
>
>> That nothing in the world is ever comparable is also the cheapest
>> excuse for an argument.
>
>> And if you still think it's about "a word", I guess you're a lost
>> cause.
>
> Thank you for making it clear that your "request" is in fact a threat.

I have no idea where you get that from.

A threat of not talking to you any more? Well, thanks for valuing me
that much.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:28:29 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Tony Cooper:
>
>> She/her He/him Man/Woman are offensive only when used under certain
>> conditions. "Nigger" is offensive under any condtion.
>
>Mostly true - there are some conditions about the N-word, too, about the
>speaker and the relationship to the listener.

Not really. You confuse "offensive" and "causing offense". The term
is always offensive, but the person it's directed at may not take
offense. There are those who declare their pronoun preferences who do
not take offense if their preference is not adhered to.

It is so offensive that you choose to call it the "N-word" instead of
"nigger".

>But I agree with the first sentence. And the conditions for "man" and
>"he" to be offensive are met when speaking about me. Not to accept that
>when I say it is again offensive.

So it's a demand, not a preference.

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

* Tony Cooper:

> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 12:28:29 -0400, Quinn C
> <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
>
>>* Tony Cooper:
>>
>>> She/her He/him Man/Woman are offensive only when used under certain
>>> conditions. "Nigger" is offensive under any condtion.

[...]

>>But I agree with the first sentence. And the conditions for "man" and
>>"he" to be offensive are met when speaking about me. Not to accept that
>>when I say it is again offensive.
>
> So it's a demand, not a preference.

Certainly more than a preference. It's widely established in the trans
community not to use the term "preference" any more wrt pronouns,
because of interpretations like yours.

It's a statement of what is correct. Offense, in this case, is caused by
using the words incorrectly.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On 4/20/2022 12:28 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> * CDB, the American:
>> Quinn C wrote:
>>> CDB:
>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>> CDB:
>>>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>>>>> * Quinn C:

>>>>>>>> I don't think it's particularly common where I live,
>>>>>>>> but from discussions online I gather that in some
>>>>>>>> regions it is, and in those places, it wouldn't be
>>>>>>>> unusual to say things like "that dude over there" or "a
>>>>>>>> dude called me".

>>>>>>> Comedian River Butcher, who now identifies as a man, made
>>>>>>> a special "A Different Kind of Dude".

>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/vgWBjutaBfw>

>>>>>>> "I mostly use they/them pronouns these days just to keep
>>>>>>> people questioning whether they wanna talk to me or not.
>>>>>>> It's, like, a very great buffer."

>>>>>> Are you implying that people who don't agree with your
>>>>>> preachments on pronouns

>>>>> If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as
>>>>> "preachments", you're free to keep your distance. Also don't
>>>>> expect good interactions with black people if you won't give
>>>>> in to "woke preachments" not to use the N-word.

>>>> A "request" endlessly harped on is a lot like a sermon. Also,
>>>> the word goes well with "flock".

>>> I guess it's my mistake thinking that arguments could bring
>>> round the ideologically opposed - whether to language change or
>>> to a more realistic view of gender.

>>> That's the core of what Butcher is saying: either people honor
>>> the request for pronouns without much fuss, or I'm better off
>>> without them in my life.

>>>> As for the N-word, you have pulled a trick that is very common
>>>> in you, of comparing things that are not comparable and
>>>> pretending that you have scored a point. Identifying your
>>>> usual practice for what it is, using an ordinary and
>>>> unexceptionable word that you dislike, is not at all the same
>>>> as as saying the word whose name shall not be spoken; it's more
>>>> like calling a Black person Black.

>>> That nothing in the world is ever comparable is also the
>>> cheapest excuse for an argument.

>>> And if you still think it's about "a word", I guess you're a
>>> lost cause.

>> Thank you for making it clear that your "request" is in fact a
>> threat.

> I have no idea where you get that from.

> A threat of not talking to you any more? Well, thanks for valuing me
> that much.

I didn't say it was an effective threat.

What did you mean by "CDB, the American" up above? Shall I act
outraged? I have been taken for an American many times, sometimes by
people from other parts of the world, sometimes by Americans. I have
never been bovvered.

* CDB:

> On 4/20/2022 12:28 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * CDB, the American:
>>> Quinn C wrote:
>
>>>> And if you still think it's about "a word", I guess you're a
>>>> lost cause.
>
>>> Thank you for making it clear that your "request" is in fact a
>>> threat.
>
>> I have no idea where you get that from.
>
>> A threat of not talking to you any more? Well, thanks for valuing me
>> that much.
>
> I didn't say it was an effective threat.

It still sees like a wrong usage to me. More obviously so than when my
ex said I shouldn't threaten her with divorce, and I said that's not a
"threat", because I wouldn't do it in order to hurt her, but to get
myself out of harm's way.

> What did you mean by "CDB, the American" up above? Shall I act
> outraged? I have been taken for an American many times, sometimes by
> people from other parts of the world, sometimes by Americans. I have
> never been bovvered.

It's supposed to be a closer match to the false attribution of an
identity that's the subject of debate, with a term that's not
objectionable on its own.

I do expect that it'd get annoying if it was repeated by various people
with the regularity of pronouns, and even more so when people pick up on
it and blame you for the havoc Americans wreak in the world, assume that
you probably carry a gun around and such. But still, Canadian and
American may not be different enough as identities to compare to
genders. I could try "Putin-sympathizer" or something.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On 4/20/2022 8:59 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> * CDB:
>> Quinn C wrote:
>>> * CDB, the American:
>>>> Quinn C wrote:

>>>>> And if you still think it's about "a word", I guess you're a
>>>>> lost cause.

>>>> Thank you for making it clear that your "request" is in fact a
>>>> threat.

>>> I have no idea where you get that from.

>>> A threat of not talking to you any more? Well, thanks for valuing
>>> me that much.

>> I didn't say it was an effective threat.

> It still sees like a wrong usage to me. More obviously so than when
> my ex said I shouldn't threaten her with divorce, and I said that's
> not a "threat", because I wouldn't do it in order to hurt her, but to
> get myself out of harm's way.

>> What did you mean by "CDB, the American" up above? Shall I act
>> outraged? I have been taken for an American many times, sometimes
>> by people from other parts of the world, sometimes by Americans. I
>> have never been bovvered.

> It's supposed to be a closer match to the false attribution of an
> identity that's the subject of debate, with a term that's not
> objectionable on its own.

> I do expect that it'd get annoying if it was repeated by various
> people with the regularity of pronouns, and even more so when people
> pick up on it and blame you for the havoc Americans wreak in the
> world, assume that you probably carry a gun around and such. But
> still, Canadian and American may not be different enough as
> identities to compare to genders. I could try "Putin-sympathizer" or
> something.

Since you know, or ought to know, that that is untrue, calling me a
putinista would be a lie. I would probably post in to contradict it,
since it would be a lie that could damage my reputation, but I would not
be all of a doodah. I think I would consider the source.

You seem to be relevance-challenged in picking your comparisons. You
may not like some of the things I say, but IMO none of them are untrue.
I don't think you can credibly claim they are, and I'm certain you
can't say - credibly - that I know they are.

In article <t3p8v4$mtn$1@gioia.aioe.org>, bellemarecd@gmail.com says...
>
> On 4/20/2022 9:02 AM, Janet wrote:
> >> Quinn:
>
>
> >>> If you see a request to acknowledge my identity as
> >>> "preachments", you're free to keep your distance. Also don't
> >>> expect good interactions with black people if you won't give in
> >>> to "woke preachments" not to use the N-word.
>
> > If you are intent on strawman arguments about identity:
>
> > A blonde blue eyed white woman called Anna announces in middle age
> > that she rejects her birth race as a social imposition, and has re-
> > identified as black. She identifies with victims of slavery.
>
> > She dons makeup,contact lenses, ethnic clothes and an Afro
> > wig,changes her name to Nkosazana and requests that everyone who
> > engages with her, acknowledges she is black.
>
> > Write your own sermon...
>
> Just wanted to keep the record straight about who said what.

Yes, sorry for my earlier error

Janet

* CDB:

> On 4/20/2022 8:59 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * CDB:
>>> Quinn C wrote:
>>>> * CDB, the American:
>>>>> Quinn C wrote:
>
>>>>>> And if you still think it's about "a word", I guess you're a
>>>>>> lost cause.
>
>>>>> Thank you for making it clear that your "request" is in fact a
>>>>> threat.
>
>>>> I have no idea where you get that from.
>
>>>> A threat of not talking to you any more? Well, thanks for valuing
>>>> me that much.
>
>>> I didn't say it was an effective threat.
>
>> It still sees like a wrong usage to me. More obviously so than when
>> my ex said I shouldn't threaten her with divorce, and I said that's
>> not a "threat", because I wouldn't do it in order to hurt her, but to
>> get myself out of harm's way.
>
>>> What did you mean by "CDB, the American" up above? Shall I act
>>> outraged? I have been taken for an American many times, sometimes
>>> by people from other parts of the world, sometimes by Americans. I
>>> have never been bovvered.
>
>> It's supposed to be a closer match to the false attribution of an
>> identity that's the subject of debate, with a term that's not
>> objectionable on its own.
>
>> I do expect that it'd get annoying if it was repeated by various
>> people with the regularity of pronouns, and even more so when people
>> pick up on it and blame you for the havoc Americans wreak in the
>> world, assume that you probably carry a gun around and such. But
>> still, Canadian and American may not be different enough as
>> identities to compare to genders. I could try "Putin-sympathizer" or
>> something.
>
> Since you know, or ought to know, that that is untrue, calling me a
> putinista would be a lie. I would probably post in to contradict it,
> since it would be a lie that could damage my reputation, but I would not
> be all of a doodah. I think I would consider the source.

And calling me a man (or implying it by using "he") is a lie to me,
because I'm not a man in what I consider the normal everyday sense (as
opposed to medical or legal senses), which involves looking and acting
like a man.

I was tempted to also point out that the usage of "he" leads to some
confusing statements, like "Quinn? He's just gone to the ladies' room",
"he's looking for a new bra, over there" or "he's out with his lesbian
group", but I actually kind of enjoy these, because they underline that
gender is fake.

> You seem to be relevance-challenged in picking your comparisons.

I won't be able to pick one you'll accept if you're not ready to.

> You
> may not like some of the things I say, but IMO none of them are untrue.
> I don't think you can credibly claim they are, and I'm certain you
> can't say - credibly - that I know they are.

Why should I believe what you claim about yourself? That's the main
point I'm making here.

Interestingly, if you classify me as a man, that is also solely based on
my declarations, so I wonder how you pick which of my statements to
accept and which to reject.

--
9/11 was pretty much the 9/11 of the falafel business.
-- Abed Nadir on Community