* CDB:

> On 4/27/2022 6:22 PM, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Anders D. Nygaard:
>
>>> There is a subtle but important difference between "being targeted
>>> as a trans", and being disgreed with for comments and opinions
>>> relating to transness. In my reading, Tony has stayed in the latter
>>> department, and not given any evidence of transphobia in this
>>> exchange.
>
>>> But I suppose it may be easier to confuse the two, when you have
>>> skin in the game.
>
>> No, it's flat-out discrimination, not only by Tony: it's gracefully
>> accepted when a cis person says "I'm not a he, I'm a she" or "I'm not
>> a she, I'm a he", but when I do the equivalent as a non-binary trans
>> person (i.e "I'm not a he or a she"), then it's called "ordering
>> people around" or "wanting to control people".
>
> I don't recall ever hearing a cis-person say I'm a "he",

The context would be that they have been referred to as "she" in a
Usenet post.

But the above applies equally to the use of the words "man" and "woman".

There was a they on Jeopardy this week (I don't know which specific
gender identity word they accept, if any)!
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

* Sam Plusnet:

> On 27-Apr-22 15:34, Quinn C wrote:
>
>> That people who despise one identifiable group that is an "other" to
>> them tend to also despise other such groups is a well-known correlation,
>> so "orthogonal" seems misplaced.
>
> A necessary part of despising some group is to say:
>
> "Those people are all alike!"
>
> Don't your words echo a similar sentiment?

Not at all. I pointed out that the correlation isn't 0, but didn't claim
that it was 1. Stop thinking in binaries!

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On 2022-04-28 05:55, CDB wrote:
> On 4/27/2022 6:37 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>> lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> When I wash my hands at home, I adjust the tap for the
>>>>>>>> smallest possible stream of water. That lets me add water
>>>>>>>> only gradually as needed. A side benefit is that I need
>>>>>>>> far less soap that way. Many people fail to understand
>>>>>>>> the logic here, so they wash away the soap before it's had a
>>>>>>>> chance to do its job.
>
>>>>>>> We have soft water so a very little soap goes a long way. My wife
>>>>>>> turns the tap full on, leaves it running, gets a
>>>>>>> huge squirt of (liquid) soap and puts her hands into the
>>>>>>> flow - thus washing off 95% of the soap she just collected
>>>>>>> - and then washes her hands.
>
>>>>>>>> I agree that the sensor-controlled taps are faulty in
>>>>>>>> that respect. However, the trend for the last many years
>>>>>>>> has been to avoid the need for anyone to touch the
>>>>>>>> equipment in public facilities, because user controls are
>>>>>>>> a common way of transmitting disease. That's why user-operated
>>>>>>>> flushing controls on urinals were abandoned
>>>>>>>> (at least in this country) decades ago.
>
>>>>>>> Taps need a more controllable controller - something akin
>>>>>>> to a Theramin.
>
>>>>>> Did you ever get that feeling that you have invented
>>>>>> something, only to find out that someone else has already
>>>>>> invented it?
>
>>>>>> You should have that feeling right now, but I have no idea if
>>>>>> it's already patented and/or in production. That's a GREAT
>>>>>> idea!
>
>>>>> The electronics for capacitive control would be cheap. The main
>>>>> cost would be in the valve that controls the flow.
>
>>>> I'm not sure how the system could interpret a demand for more or
>>>> less water - and distinguish that from the user simply sticking
>>>> their hands under the tap.
>
>>> SMOP.
>
>>> Imagine you put your hand near the faucet, adjusting it to the
>>> desired flow by hand position. You then hold it in that spot for,
>>> say, 2 seconds. That sets the flow, and moving your hands under the
>>> faucet does not change the flow. You finish washing, and retracting
>>> your hands shuts off the flow and resets it to await the next
>>> customer. If you put your hands under the faucet immediately, it
>>> would act the same way the normal activation now works.
>
>>> There would need to be some testing, of course, and there might be
>>>  some changes required to suit what the average person does with
>>> the (provided) instructions.
>
>>> Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind having a control like that on
>>> my bathroom faucet, but expanded to include both flow and
>>> temperature, and activated by proximity sensors on a panel.
>
>> I can see you performing some elaborate martial arts kata to get
>> everything just right.
>
>> But still, I have my doubts. I sometimes find that those hot-air
>> hand-dryers with a built-in sensor refuse to acknowledge my existence
>> at all, or get bored with me after a few seconds - but long before I
>> have dry hands. (Add or remove hyphens to taste.)
>
> That's why God made those big rolls of toilet paper.
>
>> Then there was the sensor-operated door that worked for everyone else
>>  but, one day, decided to ignore me entirely.
>
> Oh, dear, what can the matter be?
> Sam'l Plusnet, locked in the lavatory -
> Sensors ignored him, though why is a mystery.
> Nobody knew he was there.

He only sat down to make himself comfy.

On 4/28/2022 7:56 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Quinn C wrote:
>>> * Anders D. Nygaard:

>>>> There is a subtle but important difference between "being
>>>> targeted as a trans", and being disgreed with for comments and
>>>> opinions relating to transness. In my reading, Tony has stayed
>>>> in the latter department, and not given any evidence of
>>>> transphobia in this exchange.

>>>> But I suppose it may be easier to confuse the two, when you
>>>> have skin in the game.

>>> No, it's flat-out discrimination, not only by Tony: it's
>>> gracefully accepted when a cis person says "I'm not a he, I'm a
>>> she" or "I'm not a she, I'm a he", but when I do the equivalent
>>> as a non-binary trans person (i.e "I'm not a he or a she"), then
>>> it's called "ordering people around" or "wanting to control
>>> people".

>> I don't recall ever hearing a cis-person say I'm a "he", although I
>> did once hear a heterosexual male cross-dresser insist on being
>> called "she" when in character; and I once saw, in a disreputable
>> bar I used to go to sometimes, a fiery little transvestite make a
>> cis-woman's evening Hell for having been shirty to her in the
>> ladies' washroom.

>> -- The Chez Henri it was, in Hull, as it then was.

> Hull is Hell. Kingston sounds posher.

I can confirm that it freezes over for a good part of the year.

How would you rate "Gatineau", its post-incorporation name? That also
includes Aylmer, so no more feelthy Anglo names 'round here.

--
On va les avoir, tôt ou tard.

>

On 4/28/2022 9:59 AM, lar3ryca wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Sam Plusnet wrote:

[They do it all for you-oo-oo]

>>> But still, I have my doubts. I sometimes find that those hot-air
>>> hand-dryers with a built-in sensor refuse to acknowledge my
>>> existence at all, or get bored with me after a few seconds - but
>>> long before I have dry hands. (Add or remove hyphens to taste.)

>> That's why God made those big rolls of toilet paper.

>>> Then there was the sensor-operated door that worked for everyone
>>> else but, one day, decided to ignore me entirely.

>> Oh, dear, what can the matter be? Sam'l Plusnet, locked in the
>> lavatory - Sensors ignored him, though why is a mystery. Nobody
>> knew he was there.

> He only sat down there to make himself comfy
But when the door stuck he got jumpy and grumpy
And had to resort to his hipflask of scrumpy
'Cause nobody knew he was there.

There's precedent. The original starts out rhyming "matter be",
"lavatory" and"Saturday".

--
I composed one for Britney Spears too, but then she spoiled it by
breaking out.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 10:17:12 -0400
CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/28/2022 7:56 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Quinn C wrote:
> >>> * Anders D. Nygaard:
>
> >>>> There is a subtle but important difference between "being
> >>>> targeted as a trans", and being disgreed with for comments and
> >>>> opinions relating to transness. In my reading, Tony has stayed
> >>>> in the latter department, and not given any evidence of
> >>>> transphobia in this exchange.
>
> >>>> But I suppose it may be easier to confuse the two, when you
> >>>> have skin in the game.
>
> >>> No, it's flat-out discrimination, not only by Tony: it's
> >>> gracefully accepted when a cis person says "I'm not a he, I'm a
> >>> she" or "I'm not a she, I'm a he", but when I do the equivalent
> >>> as a non-binary trans person (i.e "I'm not a he or a she"), then
> >>> it's called "ordering people around" or "wanting to control
> >>> people".
>
> >> I don't recall ever hearing a cis-person say I'm a "he", although I
> >> did once hear a heterosexual male cross-dresser insist on being
> >> called "she" when in character; and I once saw, in a disreputable
> >> bar I used to go to sometimes, a fiery little transvestite make a
> >> cis-woman's evening Hell for having been shirty to her in the
> >> ladies' washroom.
>
> >> -- The Chez Henri it was, in Hull, as it then was.
>
> > Hull is Hell. Kingston sounds posher.
>
> I can confirm that it freezes over for a good part of the year.
>
> How would you rate "Gatineau", its post-incorporation name? That also
> includes Aylmer, so no more feelthy Anglo names 'round here.
>
Oh, not this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_upon_Hull#Nightlife,_bars_and_pubs

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 8:38:21 PM UTC-4, snide...@gmail.com wrote:
> Kerr-Mudd, John wrote on 4/25/2022 :

> > I guess in New Jersey they don't worry about wasting water.
>
> They bring it in by the hurricane-full every once in a while.

There's a reservoir a few blocks from here that I have to drive around
_every time_ I approach from the west (because of the way the one-way
streets are done to avoid through traffic in residential areas). It occupies
maybe four (small) city blocks, it has stone walls 10 or 15 feet high, and
I suppose it looks a lot like the Croton Reservoir did that used to be on
the site of the New York Public Library HQ.

As of a few days ago, the NYC area was down 1/2 inch from its normal
rainfall levels, and last week several NJ rivers were reclaiming their flood
plains for a few hours. (The Passaic is the most notorious, but the
Hackensack as well, and a couple farther west whose names weren't
familiar.)

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 8:52:47 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 27/04/22 23:51, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > AIUI, "Y-front" is Brit for "briefs," and in AmE "briefs" are commonly
> > referred to as "jockey shorts," which is from the manufacturer Jockey,
> > not from some connection with horseracing.
>
> According to an article I've just read, the inventor (Coopers Inc) named
> jockey shorts after jockstraps. The product was so successful that
> Coopers later changed the company name to Jockey.

Shirley, jockstraps were even less suitable for public viewing than
briefs; would it be wise to name a general-purpose undergarment
for something few would be, er, exposed to?

> Wikipedia says that jockstraps probably got their name from their
> popularity with "bicycle jockeys". Etymonline disagrees, saying that
> "jock" was slang for "penis".

That's the version I've always heard. Note also that the leading
manufacturer of jockstraps was a company called Bike.

Presumably OED also registers "jock" for 'athlete assumed not
to be greatly blessed with brains', with a first-recorded date.

Which for no reason whatsoever reminds me that this morning I saw
at the magazine rack that Ken Jennings is *TV Guide*'s cover boy.

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 8:53:03 PM UTC-4, snide...@gmail.com wrote:

> Of course, it turns out that my perception of the ideal temperature
> changes with circumstances; the obvious one is winter vs summer (even
> in SoCal, that's perceptable) but also a difference between just out of
> bed and cleaning up after a long day. My oral thermometer is easily
> able to remind me of part of the reason for that.

How old-fashioned! To get into some buildings there's a forehead
temperature scan, and the nurse sticks a little cone in the ear to
get a "real" body temperature.

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:07:15 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 4/27/2022 8:52 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> >> AIUI, "Y-front" is Brit for "briefs," and in AmE "briefs" are
> >> commonly referred to as "jockey shorts," which is from the
> >> manufacturer Jockey, not from some connection with horseracing.
> > According to an article I've just read, the inventor (Coopers Inc)
> > named jockey shorts after jockstraps. The product was so successful
> > that Coopers later changed the company name to Jockey.
> > Wikipedia says that jockstraps probably got their name from their
> > popularity with "bicycle jockeys". Etymonline disagrees, saying that
> > "jock" was slang for "penis".
>
> But Jockey International, who knew who it was that bought men's
> underwear for them, featured a small person in horse-racing uniform on
> their label.

Well, sure, if you're using something easily picturable for your name,
wouldn't you make such an image your logo?

Presumably the purchasers are principally the wives, for whom the
lore suggests a horse image would be more enticing than a jockey
image.

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:40:59 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * CDB:
> > On 4/27/2022 6:22 PM, Quinn C wrote:
> >> * Anders D. Nygaard:

> >>> There is a subtle but important difference between "being targeted
> >>> as a trans", and being disgreed with for comments and opinions
> >>> relating to transness. In my reading, Tony has stayed in the latter
> >>> department, and not given any evidence of transphobia in this
> >>> exchange.
> >>> But I suppose it may be easier to confuse the two, when you have
> >>> skin in the game.
> >> No, it's flat-out discrimination, not only by Tony: it's gracefully
> >> accepted when a cis person says "I'm not a he, I'm a she" or "I'm not
> >> a she, I'm a he", but when I do the equivalent as a non-binary trans
> >> person (i.e "I'm not a he or a she"), then it's called "ordering
> >> people around" or "wanting to control people".
> > I don't recall ever hearing a cis-person say I'm a "he",
>
> The context would be that they have been referred to as "she" in a
> Usenet post.
>
> But the above applies equally to the use of the words "man" and "woman".
>
> There was a they on Jeopardy this week (I don't know which specific
> gender identity word they accept, if any)!

There were TWO theys! The boy with pink hair and brown beard,
who was dedicating his $1000 to a migraine-support group, and
next to him the girl with no memorable characteristics who came
in second.

This week we learned that Mattea (first time I remembered her name!)
is only 23, and Ken is all of 47.

She's getting pretty cocky about inserting comments into her
answers, and that might turn out to be problematic. If you do
that on *Wheel* your otherwise correct answer is disqualified
-- in a "Crossword" (four, sometimes three, related words),
someone added an "and" and didn't win. (Pat Sajak always
cautions them not to add anything.)

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:41:03 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> Not at all. I pointed out that the correlation isn't 0, but didn't claim
> that it was 1. Stop thinking in binaries!

How hard-scientific. Us human-scientists refer to the "excluded
middle" (and usual lack thereof).

* Peter T. Daniels:

> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:40:59 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

>> There was a they on Jeopardy this week (I don't know which specific
>> gender identity word they accept, if any)!
>
> There were TWO theys! The boy with pink hair and brown beard,
> who was dedicating his $1000 to a migraine-support group, and
> next to him the girl with no memorable characteristics who came
> in second.

Really - when did that come up? I'm only sure regarding the
male-presenting one after I checked out the extra content on
jeopardy.com.

| Contestant Nicky Smith shares why missing today's Final Jeopardy! was
| such a "tragic" flub for a Milwaukee Bucks superfan like themself.
<https://www.jeopardy.com/jbuzz/overheard/overheard-set-i-love-you-giannis>

I had to look up the other one on the open Web to confirm.

The clue (about the Adetokunbo family) had me completely stumped, so it
was no surprise it was a "sports question in disguise".

There's been a clear preponderance of women contestants recently, and an
astonishing percentage of the men/male-presenting people either clearly
indicate they're gay or blip up my queerdar by their style, voice or
body language.

--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:04:23 -0700, Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Thus spake Snidely:
>> lar3ryca pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
>>
>> [graphic elision, and textual skipping]
>>
>>> I have been (slowly) working on a controller for a shower that would allow
>>> me to press one button to set (and hold) a perfect temperature. I have only
>>> worked on the controller, and have yet to figure out the valves to
>>> implement it.
>>
>> Years ago I wanted to have a display showing the shower water temperature as
>> an X-Y plot of cold vs hot, with the ideal zone of course highlighted. One
>> could do it with an old smart phone (even the G1) and a couple of
>> thermistors, but I never got beyond imagining the envelope I would use the
>> back of.
>
>The shower in question was old-school: seperate hot and cold valves.

You say "old school," but isn't that still most common? Ours are
single valve, but I had to choose and pay extra for them when the
house was built.

I know at least one person (my brother-in law) who prefers separate
hot and cold valves.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 21:35:43 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:20:40 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-04-27 16:37, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>> On 27-Apr-22 20:14, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-27 12:07, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>> On 27-Apr-22 3:21, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/04/22 05:56, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-04-26 13:45, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 26-Apr-22 4:06, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I wash my hands at home, I adjust the tap for the smallest
>>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>>> stream of water. That lets me add water only gradually as needed. A
>>>>>>>>> side benefit is that I need far less soap that way. Many people
>>>>>>>>> fail to
>>>>>>>>> understand the logic here, so they wash away the soap before it's
>>>>>>>>> had a
>>>>>>>>> chance to do its job.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have soft water so a very little soap goes a long way.
>>>>>>>> My wife turns the tap full on, leaves it running, gets a huge squirt
>>>>>>>> of (liquid) soap and puts her hands into the flow - thus washing off
>>>>>>>> 95% of the soap she just collected - and then washes her hands.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree that the sensor-controlled taps are faulty in that respect.
>>>>>>>>> However, the trend for the last many years has been to avoid the
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> for anyone to touch the equipment in public facilities, because user
>>>>>>>>> controls are a common way of transmitting disease. That's why
>>>>>>>>> user-operated flushing controls on urinals were abandoned (at
>>>>>>>>> least in
>>>>>>>>> this country) decades ago.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Taps need a more controllable controller - something akin to a
>>>>>>>> Theramin.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did you ever get that feeling that you have invented something,
>>>>>>> only to
>>>>>>> find out that someone else has already invented it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You should have that feeling right now, but I have no idea if it's
>>>>>>> already patented and/or in production. That's a GREAT idea!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The electronics for capacitive control would be cheap. The main cost
>>>>>> would be in the valve that controls the flow.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure how the system could interpret a demand for more or less
>>>>> water - and distinguish that from the user simply sticking their
>>>>> hands under the tap.
>>>>
>>>> SMOP.
>>>>
>>>> Imagine you put your hand near the faucet, adjusting it to the desired
>>>> flow by hand position. You then hold it in that spot for, say, 2
>>>> seconds. That sets the flow, and moving your hands under the faucet
>>>> does not change the flow. You finish washing, and retracting your
>>>> hands shuts off the flow and resets it to await the next customer. If
>>>> you put your hands under the faucet immediately, it would act the same
>>>> way the normal activation now works.
>>>>
>>>> There would need to be some testing, of course, and there might be
>>>> some changes required to suit what the average person does with the
>>>> (provided) instructions.
>>>>
>>>> Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind having a control like that on my
>>>> bathroom faucet, but expanded to include both flow and temperature,
>>>> and activated by proximity sensors on a panel.
>>>
>>> I can see you performing some elaborate martial arts kata to get
>>> everything just right.
>>
>>I trust you are referring to the unit with temperature and flow rate,
>>but as I mentioned, I would use proximity sensors on a control panel.
>>
>>Imagine a panel with what look like buttons, arranged in cross. the top
>>and bottom sensors control temperature. The left and right control flow.
>>The centre one is the 'Off (reset).
>>
>> O
>>
>> O O O
>>
>> O
>>
>>Still, probably not worth the expense. I have been (slowly) working on a
>>controller for a shower that would allow me to press one button to set
>>(and hold) a perfect temperature. I have only worked on the controller,
>>and have yet to figure out the valves to implement it.
>
>You are obviously quite a bit out of the technology loop. This "press
>the button" thing went out of style sometime just after you had your
>last haircut.
>
>You should be programming Alexa to turn on the shower, set the
>temperature, and set the flow rate, and to do it all by voice command.

Ouch! Alexa! Ouch! Ouch! Turn off the hot water, Alexa! I'm burning!

>On 4/27/2022 6:37 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> But still, I have my doubts. I sometimes find that those hot-air
> hand-dryers with a built-in sensor refuse to acknowledge my existence
> at all, or get bored with me after a few seconds - but long before I
> have dry hands.

I hate those machines, for two reasons:

1. They never dry my hands adequately.

2. They're useless if you wash anything besides your hands (for
example, your face).

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:14:53 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 4/27/2022 1:03 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>>> Even if was in position, I would follow the conventional practice
>>>> of men at the urinals in public toilets studiously avoiding
>>>> looking at other men at the urinals.
>
>>> Recently I was talking about the protocol for using a row of
>>> urinals, which evolved from the protocol used when the urinals were
>>> a single continuous trough.
>
>> I ran the NY Marathon three times--in 1985, 1986, and 1987.
>
>> Before the race began, there was a large continuous trough of a
>> urinal, made of two long planks of wood covered with plastic wrap,
>> with a hose pouring water into one end, washing out of the other.
>
>> Do they still do that? I don't know.
>
>> The race began on the Verrezano-Narrows bridge. However even though
>> there was the urinal I described, and almost all men used it, many
>> of us (including me) were often nervous enough that when the race
>> started we went to the side of the bridge and peed over the edge.
>
>And what of poor Rosie Ruiz?

There were portapotties for women's use.

On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:43:30 PM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:
> * Peter T. Daniels:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 8:40:59 AM UTC-4, Quinn C wrote:

> >> There was a they on Jeopardy this week (I don't know which specific
> >> gender identity word they accept, if any)!
> > There were TWO theys! The boy with pink hair and brown beard,
> > who was dedicating his $1000 to a migraine-support group, and
> > next to him the girl with no memorable characteristics who came
> > in second.
>
> Really - when did that come up? I'm only sure regarding the
> male-presenting one after I checked out the extra content on
> jeopardy.com.

Ken said "they" referring to each of them -- I think in the intros to
the conversations.

> | Contestant Nicky Smith shares why missing today's Final Jeopardy! was
> | such a "tragic" flub for a Milwaukee Bucks superfan like themself.
> <https://www.jeopardy.com/jbuzz/overheard/overheard-set-i-love-you-giannis>
>
> I had to look up the other one on the open Web to confirm.
>
> The clue (about the Adetokunbo family) had me completely stumped, so it
> was no surprise it was a "sports question in disguise".

I think Ken said that before going to the answers.
> There's been a clear preponderance of women contestants recently, and an
> astonishing percentage of the men/male-presenting people either clearly
> indicate they're gay or blip up my queerdar by their style, voice or
> body language.

Occasionally a *Wheel* contestant has mentioned his husband
in the intro interview, and -- back when there was a studio audience,
so that's more than two years ago -- when such a fellow won the
bonus game, his husband would bound out and hug and kiss him.
(Last night's big winner -- nearly $70,000, which is quite exceptional
-- kept going "Thank You Jesus!" (they don't even get to hug Pat and
Vanna).

I won't see tonite's games because they're opposite *Niagara*.
I suspect it may be Marilyn Monroe's best movie, based on the
part of it that I've seen.

*Wheel* almost never has three of one, it's always 1 of one and 2.
of the other.

On 28-Apr-22 9:43, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:08:58 -0600
> lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-04-27 19:04, Snidely wrote:
>>> Thus spake Snidely:
>>>> lar3ryca pounded on thar keyboard to tell us

>>>>> I have been (slowly) working on a controller for a shower that would
>>>>> allow me to press one button to set (and hold) a perfect temperature.
>>>>> I have only worked on the controller, and have yet to figure out the
>>>>> valves to implement it.
>>>>
>>>> Years ago I wanted to have a display showing the shower water
>>>> temperature as an X-Y plot of cold vs hot, with the ideal zone of
>>>> course highlighted.  One could do it with an old smart phone (even the
>>>> G1) and a couple of thermistors, but I never got beyond imagining the
>>>> envelope I would use the back of.
>>>
>>> The shower in question was old-school: seperate hot and cold valves.
>>>
>>>> Of course, it turns out that my perception of the ideal temperature
>>>> changes with circumstances; the obvious one is winter vs summer (even
>>>> in SoCal, that's perceptable) but also a difference between just out
>>>> of bed and cleaning up after a long day.  My oral thermometer is
>>>> easily able to remind me of part of the reason for that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm very happy
>>>
>>> with my current setup; a single control point has two-axis control, with
>>> a rotary knob operating a screw valve controlling pressure, and the
>>> second control a lever selecting how much hot to mix with the cold. The
>>> latter (labeled "temp") is physically coaxial to the volume limiter.
>>>
>>> The VL has a slight effect on temperature, but at the flow rates I use
>>> that's only a fine tuning effect.  With a good shower head, I may be
>>> able to get 20 minutes out of only 5 gallons (not counting the 1.5
>>> gallons to get the hot pipe hot).
>>>
>>> I leave the temp lever in the same setting and only use the gusher
>>> valve.  Of course, this is easier when everyone else agrees with me
>>> about the perfect temperature.
>>>
>>> The valves I hate, which IME are common in hotel baths and showers, are
>>> what I call "single axis" where the temperature changes with the flow
>>> rate, and often it requires flooding the tub to get a decently warm
>>> temperature.
>>
>> I have a 'single axis' control. One lever that rotates. The flow is
>> constant, regardless of temperature. If someone turns a tap on in
>> another part of the house (or flushes a toilet, or if the washing
>> machine draws water), the flow rate goes down, but the temperature
>> remains constant. As the pressure in one inlet drops, the other one
>> compensates.
>>
>>
> Ours is supposed to do that ('thermostatic valve' seems to be the expensive phrase); I'm not convinced.
> However our controls are coaxial as described erm by an earlier poster; trouble is that the flow control (which is a rotational lever) tends to stick to the temperate control part so you get more and hotter water for a single movement. I'm undecided as to whether this is a good or bad thing; in any case I haven't bothered fixing it yet.
>

I much prefer our electric shower since it's so easy to set the flow
control to get exactly the temperature you prefer.
My late M_in_L had a shower which roughly matched your description, and
over the years I _never_ managed to master the thing.
Either cold water or the no water at all.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 28-Apr-22 3:03, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 28/04/22 11:35, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> You are obviously quite a bit out of the technology loop.  This
>> "press the button" thing went out of style sometime just after you
>> had your last haircut.
>>
>> You should be programming Alexa to turn on the shower, set the
>> temperature, and set the flow rate, and to do it all by voice
>> command.
>
> I used to be able to use voice control on my phone. Then my wife bought
> an Apple gadget to play music. Now, when I want to make a phone call,
> the wrong Siri answers.
>
With the Amazon stuff you have a small range of 'trigger' names you can
use.
Can you do the same with the Apple stuff & set one of them up to answer
to a different name?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 28-Apr-22 17:51, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 21:35:43 -0400, Tony Cooper

>> You should be programming Alexa to turn on the shower, set the
>> temperature, and set the flow rate, and to do it all by voice command.
>
>
> Ouch! Alexa! Ouch! Ouch! Turn off the hot water, Alexa! I'm burning!

I'm sorry Ken. I can't do that.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 28-Apr-22 12:55, CDB wrote:
> On 4/27/2022 6:37 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:

>> Then there was the sensor-operated door that worked for everyone else
>>  but, one day, decided to ignore me entirely.
>
> Oh, dear, what can the matter be?
> Sam'l Plusnet, locked in the lavatory -
> Sensors ignored him, though why is a mystery.
> Nobody knew he was there.

It was far worse than that.
It was in a Panasonic factory.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 28-Apr-22 17:55, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 4/27/2022 6:37 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> But still, I have my doubts. I sometimes find that those hot-air
>> hand-dryers with a built-in sensor refuse to acknowledge my existence
>> at all, or get bored with me after a few seconds - but long before I
>> have dry hands.
>
>
> I hate those machines, for two reasons:
>
> 1. They never dry my hands adequately.
>
> 2. They're useless if you wash anything besides your hands (for
> example, your face).

On some models, the outlet either rotates or flips up to direct the air
upwards. I still wouldn't want that directed at my face though.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 28-Apr-22 13:40, Quinn C wrote:
> * Sam Plusnet:
>
>> On 27-Apr-22 15:34, Quinn C wrote:
>>
>>> That people who despise one identifiable group that is an "other" to
>>> them tend to also despise other such groups is a well-known correlation,
>>> so "orthogonal" seems misplaced.
>>
>> A necessary part of despising some group is to say:
>>
>> "Those people are all alike!"
>>
>> Don't your words echo a similar sentiment?
>
> Not at all. I pointed out that the correlation isn't 0, but didn't claim
> that it was 1. Stop thinking in binaries!
>
OK. "It's different when I do it."

--
Sam Plusnet

On 28-Apr-22 12:40, CDB wrote:
> On 4/27/2022 2:20 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> Quinn C wrote:
>
>>> That people who despise one identifiable group that is an "other"
>>> to them tend to also despise other such groups is a well-known
>>> correlation, so "orthogonal" seems misplaced.
>
>> A necessary part of despising some group is to say:
>
>> "Those people are all alike!"
>
>> Don't your words echo a similar sentiment?
>
> Yabbut, the group in question is defined only by its behaviour.  In that
> sense, its members are all alike, and it isn't improbable that they
> would share a related tendency.

That's worded as though you are introducing some distinction, but I'm
d@mned if I can actually see an effective distinction in what you said.

--
Sam Plusnet