N B xpost added

On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 10:42:47 -0400
Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

> On 3/30/2022 14:14, JAB wrote:
> > Tucker Carlson refuses to delete the tweet that got his account
> > locked, so he has been off twitter for 5 days and counting. Fox
> > spokesperson says he will never delete it.
> >
> > https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1508576590816497666
>
> "Carlson was commenting about the suspension of the Babylon Bee and
> Charlie Kirk over respective tweets calling Rachel Levine, the assistant
> secretary for health at the Department of Health and Human Services, a
> male. Levine is a biological male but identifies as a transgender female.
>
> “But wait,” Carlson’s tweet said. “Both of these tweets are true.”
>
> Twitter deleted the tweet, and a spokesperson for the company said in a
> statement to the Daily Wire that it had violated its terms of service.
>
> “We prohibit targeting others with repeated slurs, tropes or other
> content that intends to dehumanize, degrade or reinforce negative or
> harmful stereotypes about a protected category,” said the spokesman.
> “This includes targeted misgendering or deadnaming of transgender
> individuals.”
>
> "Deadnaming" is when a transgender person is called by a name of the
> gender they utilized before transitioning, or a name associated with
> their biological gender."
>
> ----------------------------
>
> Deadnaming... good grief, I guess I learned a new term today. Sorry,
> but that fellow was born a man, regardless of what he/she/it internally
> thinks. I don't care for the Carlson fellow, but I have to agree, I
> wouldn't delete my message either.
>
> While I'm at it, the use of the word "they" as a pronoun for one single
> person who disagrees with the gender they were born with *really*
> bothers me. It's quite grammatically incorrect, as "they" is a plural.
> Male or Female; it's a simple concept.
>
> Why is this just now an issue, and wasn't an issue for centuries prior?
> People are just bizarre. Don't bring up the very small percentage of
> people born with both biological parts, as that's a whole other case
> beyond their control; and that isn't something new.

New word here?
I'd imagine Quinn might like to chip in on this.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

In message <20220405215947.13ed0dd9dd0fbded2a53e29a@127.0.0.1> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> N B xpost added

> On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 10:42:47 -0400
> Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

>> On 3/30/2022 14:14, JAB wrote:
>> > Tucker Carlson refuses to delete the tweet that got his account
>> > locked, so he has been off twitter for 5 days and counting. Fox
>> > spokesperson says he will never delete it.

This is fantastic news and I hope he never gives in because on less
shitbag racist fascist cunt on Twitter will improve the smell.

>> “We prohibit targeting others with repeated slurs, tropes or other
>> content that intends to dehumanize, degrade or reinforce negative or
>> harmful stereotypes about a protected category,” said the spokesman.
>> “This includes targeted misgendering or deadnaming of transgender
>> individuals.”
>>
>> "Deadnaming" is when a transgender person is called by a name of the
>> gender they utilized before transitioning, or a name associated with
>> their biological gender."

Yes.

>> Deadnaming... good grief

No, not good grief at all. Intentionally calling someone by the wrong
name is in all cases at the very least rude. In some cases it rises to a
much higher level than mere rudeness. This is one such case, as you are
explicitly targeting their identity and rejecting it.

Insisting on calling Muhammad Ali "Cassius" is a similar kind of attack,
as it is rejecting not only his identity, but his religion. It's a
shitty thing to do, and only shitty people do it.

>> I guess I learned a new term today. Sorry, but that fellow was born
>> a man, regardless of what he/she/it internally thinks. I don't care
>> for the Carlson fellow, but I have to agree, I wouldn't delete my
>> message either.

That would be your choice, but you are wrong and Twitter is right.

>> While I'm at it, the use of the word "they" as a pronoun for one single
>> person who disagrees with the gender they were born with

Not just those. Some people are fine with their gender but do not want
to be identified by their gender. In fact, at my house right now is a
young woman who is definitely a woman, but chosen to go wth the personal
pronoun they. She is not, AFAIK, transgender.

>> *really* bothers me.

Tough, It's not about you.

>> It's quite grammatically incorrect, as "they" is a plural.

This is actually wrong, as has been pointed out many times. The singular
they is centuries old.

>> Male or Female; it's a simple concept.

It is a concept that is simple to the simple-minded, that is not the
same thing.

>> Why is this just now an issue, and wasn't an issue for centuries prior?

Because people who felt they were the wrong gender had no recourse, duh.

> New word here?

It's not new.

ODE (UK):

dead name
noun
the birth name of a transgender person who has changed their name as
part of their gender transition: Gregory is her dead name.

verb (dead-name) [with object]
call (a transgender person) by their birth name when they have changed
their name as part of their gender transition: he was addressed with the
wrong pronouns and dead-named.

<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deadname>
i OED defines it as:

"The former name of a person (esp. a transgender person) who has
chosen a new name. Typically used with reference to transgender people
who have changed their names to more accurately reflect their
identities.

"Usually with the connotation that referring to someone by such a name is
insensitive or offensive."

--
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many
is research.

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:59:47 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
wrote:

>
>N B xpost added
>
>On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 10:42:47 -0400
>Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/30/2022 14:14, JAB wrote:
>> > Tucker Carlson refuses to delete the tweet that got his account
>> > locked, so he has been off twitter for 5 days and counting. Fox
>> > spokesperson says he will never delete it.
>> >
>> > https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1508576590816497666
>>
>> "Carlson was commenting about the suspension of the Babylon Bee and
>> Charlie Kirk over respective tweets calling Rachel Levine, the assistant
>> secretary for health at the Department of Health and Human Services, a
>> male. Levine is a biological male but identifies as a transgender female.
>>
>> “But wait,” Carlson’s tweet said. “Both of these tweets are true.”
>>
>> Twitter deleted the tweet, and a spokesperson for the company said in a
>> statement to the Daily Wire that it had violated its terms of service.
>>
>> “We prohibit targeting others with repeated slurs, tropes or other
>> content that intends to dehumanize, degrade or reinforce negative or
>> harmful stereotypes about a protected category,” said the spokesman.
>> “This includes targeted misgendering or deadnaming of transgender
>> individuals.”
>>
>> "Deadnaming" is when a transgender person is called by a name of the
>> gender they utilized before transitioning, or a name associated with
>> their biological gender."
>>
>> ----------------------------
>>
>> Deadnaming... good grief, I guess I learned a new term today. Sorry,
>> but that fellow was born a man, regardless of what he/she/it internally
>> thinks. I don't care for the Carlson fellow, but I have to agree, I
>> wouldn't delete my message either.
>>
>> While I'm at it, the use of the word "they" as a pronoun for one single
>> person who disagrees with the gender they were born with *really*
>> bothers me. It's quite grammatically incorrect, as "they" is a plural.
>> Male or Female; it's a simple concept.
>>
>> Why is this just now an issue, and wasn't an issue for centuries prior?
>> People are just bizarre. Don't bring up the very small percentage of
>> people born with both biological parts, as that's a whole other case
>> beyond their control; and that isn't something new.
>
>
>New word here?

If so, you haven't been paying attention. It is a different usage of
"deadnaming" than I'm familar with, though. In the cases I've read
about it, it pertains to using the person's gender-specific birth name
when that person has adopted a different first name.

It's my thought that "deadnaming" Rachel Levine would be referring to
her as Richard Levine. (Her birth name was Richard Leland Levine)

(Before the axe falls, Dr Levine's pronouns are "she/her, so the above
is OK)

Referring to her as "him" or a "male" would be misgendering, not
deadnaming, as far as I know. There was a instance in a radio
interview where the interviewer used "Sir" in questions to Admiral
Levine, but she asked that he not misgender her and he apologized.

>I'd imagine Quinn might like to chip in on this.

You think?
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:59:47 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
wrote:

>>Deadnaming

>New word here?

Prename in American English - noun. a given name; forename.

Synonyms. Christian name, first name, forename, given name

Deadname joins two words, dead and name, indicating that a given name
no longer has any use or meaning--that is, it's dead to its bearer.
The term originated in transgender spaces online in 2012, particularly
on blogs and message boards.Apr 10, 2018

https://www.dictionary.com/e/pop-culture/deadname/

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 22:54:55 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>dead name
>noun
>the birth name of a transgender person who has changed their name as
>part of their gender transition: Gregory is her dead name.
>
>verb (dead-name) [with object]
>call (a transgender person) by their birth name when they have changed
>their name as part of their gender transition: he was addressed with the
>wrong pronouns and dead-named.
>
><https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deadname>
>i
>OED defines it as:
>
>"The former name of a person (esp. a transgender person) who has
>chosen a new name. Typically used with reference to transgender people
>who have changed their names to more accurately reflect their
>identities.
>
>"Usually with the connotation that referring to someone by such a name is
>insensitive or offensive."

Articles about controversy over "deadname" use in schools have
appeared. Whatever name a student is registered under stays with that
student while at that school. There have been articles about teachers
being fired or reprimanded because they continue to use this
"deadname" for a student who has chosen a name associated with a
different gender or a name is gender neutral.

It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis. A
student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" - as
I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his "deadname".

--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 21:55:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> A
>student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" - as
>I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his "deadname".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCVR_ajL_Eo

On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:

> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
> "deadname".

A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
that.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Stooge #6

On 4/5/2022 9:55 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>> dead name noun the birth name of a transgender person who has
>> changed their name as part of their gender transition: Gregory is
>> her dead name.

>> verb (dead-name) [with object] call (a transgender person) by their
>> birth name when they have changed their name as part of their
>> gender transition: he was addressed with the wrong pronouns and
>> dead-named.

>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deadname> i OED defines
>> it as:

>> "The former name of a person (esp. a transgender person) who has
>> chosen a new name. Typically used with reference to transgender
>> people who have changed their names to more accurately reflect
>> their identities.

>> "Usually with the connotation that referring to someone by such a
>> name is insensitive or offensive."

> Articles about controversy over "deadname" use in schools have
> appeared. Whatever name a student is registered under stays with
> that student while at that school. There have been articles about
> teachers being fired or reprimanded because they continue to use
> this "deadname" for a student who has chosen a name associated with
> a different gender or a name is gender neutral.

> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
> "deadname".

It could be worth trying. Is reductio ad absurdum on Tweety's shitlist?

In message <t2j6i8$trn$2@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:

>> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
>> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
>> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
>> "deadname".

> A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
> everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
> new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
> that.

I really despise people like that. Had Danny been smart he would have
simply not responded to "Patrick".

--
All people are different people

On 06/04/22 23:35, Lewis wrote:
> In message <t2j6i8$trn$2@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
>>> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
>>> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
>>> "deadname".
>
>> A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
>> everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
>> new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
>> that.
>
> I really despise people like that. Had Danny been smart he would have
> simply not responded to "Patrick".

He was too young. It's easy to manipulate children.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Stooge #6

On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 9:55:12 PM UTC-4, Tony Cooper wrote:

> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis. A
> student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" - as
> I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his "deadname".

Of curse not. But if you'd asked to be called "Jim"?

Or, as already mentioned, if Cassius chose to be called Muhammad.

On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:35:18 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>In message <t2j6i8$trn$2@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>>> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
>>> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
>>> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
>>> "deadname".
>
>> A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
>> everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
>> new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
>> that.
>
>I really despise people like that. Had Danny been smart he would have
>simply not responded to "Patrick".

Yes. He also could have said, "my name is spelled P A T R I C K, but
it's pronounced DANNY. It's my name and it's up to me how it should be
pronounced.

And he could have called the teachers by names other than what they
said they should be.

I may have said this here before, but I have a friend who has a son
named "Tony." Not "Anthony," but "Tony." He had a teacher who
insisted on calling him "Anthony" and my friend had to go to the
school to straighten the teacher out.

On 2022-04-06 12:44, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:35:18 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>
>> In message <t2j6i8$trn$2@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
>>>> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
>>>> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
>>>> "deadname".
>>
>>> A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
>>> everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
>>> new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
>>> that.
>>
>> I really despise people like that. Had Danny been smart he would have
>> simply not responded to "Patrick".
>
>
> Yes. He also could have said, "my name is spelled P A T R I C K, but
> it's pronounced DANNY. It's my name and it's up to me how it should be
> pronounced.
>
> And he could have called the teachers by names other than what they
> said they should be.
>
> I may have said this here before, but I have a friend who has a son
> named "Tony." Not "Anthony," but "Tony." He had a teacher who
> insisted on calling him "Anthony" and my friend had to go to the
> school to straighten the teacher out.

I have a great nephew named Jake. When his mother told us the name, she
was careful to inform us that his name was "just Jake". Anyone care to
guess what we called him when we first saw him?

On 06/04/2022 8:46 pm, lar3ryca wrote:

<snip>

> I have a great nephew named Jake. When his mother told us the name, she
> was careful to inform us that his name was "just Jake". Anyone care to
> guess what we called him when we first saw him?

"Just Jake", of course.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

In message <t2k6ct$8e3$3@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 06/04/22 23:35, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <t2j6i8$trn$2@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
>>>> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
>>>> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
>>>> "deadname".
>>
>>> A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
>>> everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
>>> new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
>>> that.
>>
>> I really despise people like that. Had Danny been smart he would have
>> simply not responded to "Patrick".

> He was too young. It's easy to manipulate children.

Depends on the kid. I've never responded to "Lou", not even as a
kindergartner, and various adults have tried to peg me with that
nickname my whole life.

And effective way pf dealing with teachers who ue the wrong name used to
be to call them by their first names.

--
No boom *today*. Boom tomorrow. Always boom tomorrow.
<gestures widely> Boom. - Susan Ivanova

On 2022-04-06 13:51, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 06/04/2022 8:46 pm, lar3ryca wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I have a great nephew named Jake. When his mother told us the name,
>> she was careful to inform us that his name was "just Jake". Anyone
>> care to guess what we called him when we first saw him?
>
> "Just Jake", of course.

Drat! I thought it would take longer for someone to guess.

When one of my nieces (Haley) was born, I asked her mother "How is Denise?"

Great chuckles were had by all.

* Kerr-Mudd, John:

> N B xpost added
>
> On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 10:42:47 -0400
> Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>
>> "Deadnaming" is when a transgender person is called by a name of the
>> gender they utilized before transitioning, or a name associated with
>> their biological gender."

"Biological gender" is an abomination.

>> Deadnaming... good grief, I guess I learned a new term today. Sorry,
>> but that fellow was born a man, regardless of what he/she/it internally
>> thinks. I don't care for the Carlson fellow, but I have to agree, I
>> wouldn't delete my message either.
>>
>> While I'm at it, the use of the word "they" as a pronoun for one single
>> person who disagrees with the gender they were born with *really*
>> bothers me. It's quite grammatically incorrect, as "they" is a plural.
>> Male or Female; it's a simple concept.
>>
>> Why is this just now an issue, and wasn't an issue for centuries prior?
>> People are just bizarre. Don't bring up the very small percentage of
>> people born with both biological parts, as that's a whole other case
>> beyond their control; and that isn't something new.
>
> New word here?
> I'd imagine Quinn might like to chip in on this.

Easy. It's impolite to use a name that a person doesn't wish to be
addressed by, and even more impolite to use a wrong gender, that's it.
Insisting you know the gender, or profession, or religion of another
person better than the person themself makes you an ass.

It's not really a new thing. People didn't ask for a birth certificate
or a pants-down before choosing a pronoun for someone in the past,
either. You guess from the overall appearance or you ask, and if
corrected, you adapt.

A local museum will run an activity on 19th century "gender change" this
week:
<https://www.musee-mccord.qc.ca/en/activities/trancestors-gender-binary-19th-century/>

--
I don't see people ... as having a right to be idiots. It's
just impractical to try to stop them, unless they're hurting
somebody. -- Vicereine Cordelia
in L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen

* Peter Moylan:

> On 06/04/22 23:35, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <t2j6i8$trn$2@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
>>>> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
>>>> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
>>>> "deadname".
>>
>>> A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
>>> everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
>>> new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
>>> that.
>>
>> I really despise people like that. Had Danny been smart he would have
>> simply not responded to "Patrick".
>
> He was too young. It's easy to manipulate children.

How young is too young? I switched to my middle name (2nd given name) at
8 years old. Of course that required not reacting to the old one any
more.
--
There is a whole cottage industry devoted to people who are
upset by the idea of others being outraged.
-- Washington Post 2019-09-18

On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:46:56 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:

>On 2022-04-06 12:44, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:35:18 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
>> <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <t2j6i8$trn$2@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
>>>>> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
>>>>> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
>>>>> "deadname".
>>>
>>>> A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
>>>> everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
>>>> new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
>>>> that.
>>>
>>> I really despise people like that. Had Danny been smart he would have
>>> simply not responded to "Patrick".
>>
>>
>> Yes. He also could have said, "my name is spelled P A T R I C K, but
>> it's pronounced DANNY. It's my name and it's up to me how it should be
>> pronounced.
>>
>> And he could have called the teachers by names other than what they
>> said they should be.
>>
>> I may have said this here before, but I have a friend who has a son
>> named "Tony." Not "Anthony," but "Tony." He had a teacher who
>> insisted on calling him "Anthony" and my friend had to go to the
>> school to straighten the teacher out.
>
>I have a great nephew named Jake. When his mother told us the name, she
>was careful to inform us that his name was "just Jake". Anyone care to
>guess what we called him when we first saw him?

Justjake?

On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:28:34 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:

>* Kerr-Mudd, John:
>
>> N B xpost added
>>
>> On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 10:42:47 -0400
>> Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> "Deadnaming" is when a transgender person is called by a name of the
>>> gender they utilized before transitioning, or a name associated with
>>> their biological gender."
>
>"Biological gender" is an abomination.

I agree. "Gender" is a word that refers to nouns and adjectives.
There's nothing biological about nouns and adjectives.

Den 07-04-2022 kl. 00:28 skrev Quinn C:
> [deadnaming] (XPost removed)
> It's impolite to use a name that a person doesn't wish to be
> addressed by, and even more impolite to use a wrong gender, that's it.

Which is why I try not to use either of the two possible genders
in myE when referring to you.

> Insisting you know the gender, or profession, or religion of another
> person better than the person themself makes you an ass.
>
> It's not really a new thing. People didn't ask for a birth certificate
> or a pants-down before choosing a pronoun for someone in the past,
> either. You guess from the overall appearance or you ask, and if
> corrected, you adapt.

And you make it harder for me to adapt than most people do by stating
that I should not use either of the gendered pronouns available to me.

I suppose that in your view pronoun usage progresses one funeral
at a time (with apologies to Max Planck).

/Anders, Denmark

Lewis wrote:
> In message <20220405215947.13ed0dd9dd0fbded2a53e29a@127.0.0.1> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> N B xpost added
>
>> On Tue, 05 Apr 2022 10:42:47 -0400
>> Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

>>> Deadnaming... good grief
>
> No, not good grief at all. Intentionally calling someone by the wrong
> name is in all cases at the very least rude. In some cases it rises to a
> much higher level than mere rudeness. This is one such case, as you are
> explicitly targeting their identity and rejecting it.

I refuse to play along so that some autogynephiliac can get his jollies
at my expense, using me as a prop.

> Insisting on calling Muhammad Ali "Cassius" is a similar kind of attack,
> as it is rejecting not only his identity, but his religion. It's a
> shitty thing to do, and only shitty people do it.

Ali's request is reasonable. The demands of the autogynephiliacs are not
reasonable.

On 06-Apr-22 14:59, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 06/04/22 23:35, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <t2j6i8$trn$2@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan
>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>
>>>> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
>>>> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
>>>> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
>>>> "deadname".
>>
>>> A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
>>> everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
>>> new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
>>> that.
>>
>> I really despise people like that. Had Danny been smart he would have
>> simply not responded to "Patrick".
>
> He was too young. It's easy to manipulate children.
>
It also would depend on when this took place.
The idea that children in school had "rights", and opinions which should
be respected, is a relatively recent invention.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 07-Apr-22 0:17, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:46:56 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-04-06 12:44, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:35:18 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
>>> <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <t2j6i8$trn$2@dont-email.me> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 06/04/22 11:55, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to be an issue only when there's a gender identity basis.
>>>>>> A student registered as "Anthony", but prefers to be called "Tony" -
>>>>>> as I was - wouldn't get very far claiming "Anthony" was his
>>>>>> "deadname".
>>>>
>>>>> A cousin of mine has names Patrick Daniel, and when he was young
>>>>> everyone called him Danny. Then he changed schools. The teachers at the
>>>>> new school refused to call him Danny. He had to be Patrick, and that was
>>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> I really despise people like that. Had Danny been smart he would have
>>>> simply not responded to "Patrick".
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. He also could have said, "my name is spelled P A T R I C K, but
>>> it's pronounced DANNY. It's my name and it's up to me how it should be
>>> pronounced.
>>>
>>> And he could have called the teachers by names other than what they
>>> said they should be.
>>>
>>> I may have said this here before, but I have a friend who has a son
>>> named "Tony." Not "Anthony," but "Tony." He had a teacher who
>>> insisted on calling him "Anthony" and my friend had to go to the
>>> school to straighten the teacher out.
>>
>> I have a great nephew named Jake. When his mother told us the name, she
>> was careful to inform us that his name was "just Jake". Anyone care to
>> guess what we called him when we first saw him?
>
>
> Justjake?

He could try for Jake the Just.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Wed, 06 Apr 2022 16:23:39 -0700, Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
wrote:

>"Gender" is a word that refers to nouns and adjectives.
>There's nothing biological about nouns and adjectives.

How about noun/verb usage?

gender (n.)

c. 1300, "kind, sort, class, a class or kind of persons or things
sharing certain traits," from Old French gendre, genre "kind, species;
character; gender" (12c., Modern French genre), from stem of Latin
genus (genitive generis) "race, stock, family; kind, rank, order;
species," also "(male or female) sex," from PIE root *gene- "give
birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial
and tribal groups.

The "male-or-female sex" sense is attested in English from early 15c.
As sex (n.) took on erotic qualities in 20c., gender came to be the
usual English word for "sex of a human being," in which use it was at
first regarded as colloquial or humorous. Later often in feminist
writing with reference to social attributes as much as biological
qualities; this sense first attested 1963. Gender-bender is from 1977,
popularized from 1980, with reference to pop star David Bowie.

gender (v.)

"to bring forth," late 14c., from Old French gendrer, genrer
"engender, beget, give birth to," from Latin generare "to engender,
beget, produce" (see generation). Related: Gendered; gendering.
Origin and meaning of gender

https://www.etymonline.com/word/gender

Bonus Read: The 6 Most Common Biological Sexes in Humans

https://www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/