Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
> > Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-05-21, lar3ryca wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 2022-05-21 02:21, Snidely wrote:
> >> >> Just this Friday, lar3ryca puzzled about:
> >> >>> On 2022-05-20 22:23, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> >>>> On Sat, 21 May 2022 13:19:45 +1000, Peter Moylan
> >> >>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On 21/05/22 11:48, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >> >>>>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:30:48 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> In that category, a phrase that particularly strikes me is "Gees
> >> >>>>>>> cripes". Apparently most people are unaware that that has a
> >> >>>>>>> religious origin.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> I've never seen or heard that phrase. I figured out early on that
> >> >>>>>> "Jeez" has a religious origin, but I was surprised to learn that
> >> >>>>>> "Sheesh" is supposed to have the same origin.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> That surprises me, too. I have always assumed that "sheesh" was a
> >> >>>>> minced
> >> >>>>> "shit".
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Google doesn't help. The very first hit says that it was invented by
> >> >>>>> someone on TikTok, and it takes an effort to find the ones that don't
> >> >>>>> mention TikTok. One site traces it from Hebrew ?????????? down
> >> >>>>> through ??????
> >> >>>>> amd Iesus and finally to sheesh. I'd never heard of those earlier
> >> >>>>> steps,
> >> >>>>> and I'm still not convinced about the final step.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I can't provide proof, but I'm sure "sheesh" was commonly used long
> >> >>>> before TikTok came along. Or mobile phones. Or even cordless phones.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Absolutely. I think I used that in the 60s, if not before.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think I even heard it in some Hanna-Barbera cartoons, most likely from
> >> >> Mr Jinks during his pursuit of Pixie and Dixie.
> >> >
> >> > On further reflection, I think I first read it in a MAD Magazine, which
> >> > my brother and I started reading in the early 50s.
> >> >
> >> > Unfortunately, I no longer have a machine on which my MAD Magazine
> >> > CDRoms (1952-1998) will run.
> >>
> >> I assume the CDs have *.exe files with the data embedded in
> >> them. Someone who knows Windows programming could probably
> >> reverse-engineer the images out.
> >
> > With some luck it may have scanned pages stored as .jpg files.
> > (or perhaps assembled in .pdf)
> > The .exe should be no more than a front end to the data,
>
> Ideally, yes, but a lot of novelty software used to have the data
> tucked inside.

A friend of mine has the complete National Geographic on CD-ROM.
<https://www.amazon.com/Complete-National-Geographic-Magazine-CD-ROM/dp/0763026972>
(The Mac pre-OSX version, then complete)

Unreadable with the reader app of course,
but the CD-ROMs contains all individual pages as .jpg-s,
so all is not lost,

Jan
(and who is going to read it all anyway?)

On 2022-05-25 11:38, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-05-21, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-05-21 02:21, Snidely wrote:
>>>>> Just this Friday, lar3ryca puzzled about:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-20 22:23, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 May 2022 13:19:45 +1000, Peter Moylan
>>>>>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 21/05/22 11:48, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:30:48 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In that category, a phrase that particularly strikes me is "Gees
>>>>>>>>>> cripes". Apparently most people are unaware that that has a
>>>>>>>>>> religious origin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've never seen or heard that phrase. I figured out early on that
>>>>>>>>> "Jeez" has a religious origin, but I was surprised to learn that
>>>>>>>>> "Sheesh" is supposed to have the same origin.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That surprises me, too. I have always assumed that "sheesh" was a
>>>>>>>> minced
>>>>>>>> "shit".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Google doesn't help. The very first hit says that it was invented by
>>>>>>>> someone on TikTok, and it takes an effort to find the ones that don't
>>>>>>>> mention TikTok. One site traces it from Hebrew ?????????? down
>>>>>>>> through ??????
>>>>>>>> amd Iesus and finally to sheesh. I'd never heard of those earlier
>>>>>>>> steps,
>>>>>>>> and I'm still not convinced about the final step.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't provide proof, but I'm sure "sheesh" was commonly used long
>>>>>>> before TikTok came along. Or mobile phones. Or even cordless phones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Absolutely. I think I used that in the 60s, if not before.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I even heard it in some Hanna-Barbera cartoons, most likely from
>>>>> Mr Jinks during his pursuit of Pixie and Dixie.
>>>>
>>>> On further reflection, I think I first read it in a MAD Magazine, which
>>>> my brother and I started reading in the early 50s.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, I no longer have a machine on which my MAD Magazine
>>>> CDRoms (1952-1998) will run.
>>>
>>> I assume the CDs have *.exe files with the data embedded in
>>> them. Someone who knows Windows programming could probably
>>> reverse-engineer the images out.
>>
>> With some luck it may have scanned pages stored as .jpg files.
>> (or perhaps assembled in .pdf)
>> The .exe should be no more than a front end to the data,
>
> Ideally, yes, but a lot of novelty software used to have the data
> tucked inside.

Doesn't matter. I managed to get the full set in individual .jpg format.
I am slowly working my way through the issues, one issue at a time,
because I haven't yet figured out a way (in bulk) to extract text and
use grep on it.

--
Things that I hate: lists, irony, lists, repetition, inconsistency.

lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:

> On 2022-05-25 11:38, Adam Funk wrote:
> > On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >
> >> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2022-05-21, lar3ryca wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2022-05-21 02:21, Snidely wrote:
> >>>>> Just this Friday, lar3ryca puzzled about:
> >>>>>> On 2022-05-20 22:23, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 21 May 2022 13:19:45 +1000, Peter Moylan
> >>>>>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 21/05/22 11:48, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:30:48 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In that category, a phrase that particularly strikes me is "Gees
> >>>>>>>>>> cripes". Apparently most people are unaware that that has a
> >>>>>>>>>> religious origin.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I've never seen or heard that phrase. I figured out early on that
> >>>>>>>>> "Jeez" has a religious origin, but I was surprised to learn that
> >>>>>>>>> "Sheesh" is supposed to have the same origin.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> That surprises me, too. I have always assumed that "sheesh" was a
> >>>>>>>> minced
> >>>>>>>> "shit".
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Google doesn't help. The very first hit says that it was invented by
> >>>>>>>> someone on TikTok, and it takes an effort to find the ones that don't
> >>>>>>>> mention TikTok. One site traces it from Hebrew ?????????? down
> >>>>>>>> through ??????
> >>>>>>>> amd Iesus and finally to sheesh. I'd never heard of those earlier
> >>>>>>>> steps,
> >>>>>>>> and I'm still not convinced about the final step.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I can't provide proof, but I'm sure "sheesh" was commonly used long
> >>>>>>> before TikTok came along. Or mobile phones. Or even cordless phones.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Absolutely. I think I used that in the 60s, if not before.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think I even heard it in some Hanna-Barbera cartoons, most likely from
> >>>>> Mr Jinks during his pursuit of Pixie and Dixie.
> >>>>
> >>>> On further reflection, I think I first read it in a MAD Magazine, which
> >>>> my brother and I started reading in the early 50s.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately, I no longer have a machine on which my MAD Magazine
> >>>> CDRoms (1952-1998) will run.
> >>>
> >>> I assume the CDs have *.exe files with the data embedded in
> >>> them. Someone who knows Windows programming could probably
> >>> reverse-engineer the images out.
> >>
> >> With some luck it may have scanned pages stored as .jpg files.
> >> (or perhaps assembled in .pdf)
> >> The .exe should be no more than a front end to the data,
> >
> > Ideally, yes, but a lot of novelty software used to have the data
> > tucked inside.
>
> Doesn't matter. I managed to get the full set in individual .jpg format.
> I am slowly working my way through the issues, one issue at a time,
> because I haven't yet figured out a way (in bulk) to extract text and
> use grep on it.

Searching on OCR + comic seems to indicate that OCR-ing comic books
is still in an experimental stage,

Jan

On 2022-05-25 14:50, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-25 11:38, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-05-21, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-05-21 02:21, Snidely wrote:
>>>>>>> Just this Friday, lar3ryca puzzled about:
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-20 22:23, Tony Cooper wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 May 2022 13:19:45 +1000, Peter Moylan
>>>>>>>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 21/05/22 11:48, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:30:48 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In that category, a phrase that particularly strikes me is "Gees
>>>>>>>>>>>> cripes". Apparently most people are unaware that that has a
>>>>>>>>>>>> religious origin.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've never seen or heard that phrase. I figured out early on that
>>>>>>>>>>> "Jeez" has a religious origin, but I was surprised to learn that
>>>>>>>>>>> "Sheesh" is supposed to have the same origin.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That surprises me, too. I have always assumed that "sheesh" was a
>>>>>>>>>> minced
>>>>>>>>>> "shit".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Google doesn't help. The very first hit says that it was invented by
>>>>>>>>>> someone on TikTok, and it takes an effort to find the ones that don't
>>>>>>>>>> mention TikTok. One site traces it from Hebrew ?????????? down
>>>>>>>>>> through ??????
>>>>>>>>>> amd Iesus and finally to sheesh. I'd never heard of those earlier
>>>>>>>>>> steps,
>>>>>>>>>> and I'm still not convinced about the final step.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can't provide proof, but I'm sure "sheesh" was commonly used long
>>>>>>>>> before TikTok came along. Or mobile phones. Or even cordless phones.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Absolutely. I think I used that in the 60s, if not before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think I even heard it in some Hanna-Barbera cartoons, most likely from
>>>>>>> Mr Jinks during his pursuit of Pixie and Dixie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On further reflection, I think I first read it in a MAD Magazine, which
>>>>>> my brother and I started reading in the early 50s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, I no longer have a machine on which my MAD Magazine
>>>>>> CDRoms (1952-1998) will run.
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume the CDs have *.exe files with the data embedded in
>>>>> them. Someone who knows Windows programming could probably
>>>>> reverse-engineer the images out.
>>>>
>>>> With some luck it may have scanned pages stored as .jpg files.
>>>> (or perhaps assembled in .pdf)
>>>> The .exe should be no more than a front end to the data,
>>>
>>> Ideally, yes, but a lot of novelty software used to have the data
>>> tucked inside.
>>
>> Doesn't matter. I managed to get the full set in individual .jpg format.
>> I am slowly working my way through the issues, one issue at a time,
>> because I haven't yet figured out a way (in bulk) to extract text and
>> use grep on it.
>
> Searching on OCR + comic seems to indicate that OCR-ing comic books
> is still in an experimental stage,

oops... meant to say 'individual PDF files.

--
Dogs have owners, cats have staff.

lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:

> On 2022-05-25 14:50, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-05-25 11:38, Adam Funk wrote:
> >>> On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2022-05-21, lar3ryca wrote:
[-]
> >>>>>> Unfortunately, I no longer have a machine on which my MAD Magazine
> >>>>>> CDRoms (1952-1998) will run.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I assume the CDs have *.exe files with the data embedded in
> >>>>> them. Someone who knows Windows programming could probably
> >>>>> reverse-engineer the images out.
> >>>>
> >>>> With some luck it may have scanned pages stored as .jpg files.
> >>>> (or perhaps assembled in .pdf)
> >>>> The .exe should be no more than a front end to the data,
> >>>
> >>> Ideally, yes, but a lot of novelty software used to have the data
> >>> tucked inside.
> >>
> >> Doesn't matter. I managed to get the full set in individual .jpg format.
> >> I am slowly working my way through the issues, one issue at a time,
> >> because I haven't yet figured out a way (in bulk) to extract text and
> >> use grep on it.
> >
> > Searching on OCR + comic seems to indicate that OCR-ing comic books
> > is still in an experimental stage,
>
> oops... meant to say 'individual PDF files.

Why that? The default format for comic books is .cbr or .cbz
Put the .jpg in a folder, zip or rar that, and change the extension.
The .pdf is nothing but useless overhead,
and it is hard to get the .jpg out again.
PDF assembly may also damage the jpg-s,

Jan

On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-25 11:38, Adam Funk wrote:
>> > On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >
>> >> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 2022-05-21, lar3ryca wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 2022-05-21 02:21, Snidely wrote:
>> >>>>> Just this Friday, lar3ryca puzzled about:
>> >>>>>> On 2022-05-20 22:23, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 21 May 2022 13:19:45 +1000, Peter Moylan
>> >>>>>>> <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 21/05/22 11:48, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 20, 2022 at 7:30:48 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> In that category, a phrase that particularly strikes me is "Gees
>> >>>>>>>>>> cripes". Apparently most people are unaware that that has a
>> >>>>>>>>>> religious origin.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I've never seen or heard that phrase. I figured out early on that
>> >>>>>>>>> "Jeez" has a religious origin, but I was surprised to learn that
>> >>>>>>>>> "Sheesh" is supposed to have the same origin.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> That surprises me, too. I have always assumed that "sheesh" was a
>> >>>>>>>> minced
>> >>>>>>>> "shit".
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Google doesn't help. The very first hit says that it was invented by
>> >>>>>>>> someone on TikTok, and it takes an effort to find the ones that don't
>> >>>>>>>> mention TikTok. One site traces it from Hebrew ?????????? down
>> >>>>>>>> through ??????
>> >>>>>>>> amd Iesus and finally to sheesh. I'd never heard of those earlier
>> >>>>>>>> steps,
>> >>>>>>>> and I'm still not convinced about the final step.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I can't provide proof, but I'm sure "sheesh" was commonly used long
>> >>>>>>> before TikTok came along. Or mobile phones. Or even cordless phones.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Absolutely. I think I used that in the 60s, if not before.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I think I even heard it in some Hanna-Barbera cartoons, most likely from
>> >>>>> Mr Jinks during his pursuit of Pixie and Dixie.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On further reflection, I think I first read it in a MAD Magazine, which
>> >>>> my brother and I started reading in the early 50s.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Unfortunately, I no longer have a machine on which my MAD Magazine
>> >>>> CDRoms (1952-1998) will run.
>> >>>
>> >>> I assume the CDs have *.exe files with the data embedded in
>> >>> them. Someone who knows Windows programming could probably
>> >>> reverse-engineer the images out.
>> >>
>> >> With some luck it may have scanned pages stored as .jpg files.
>> >> (or perhaps assembled in .pdf)
>> >> The .exe should be no more than a front end to the data,
>> >
>> > Ideally, yes, but a lot of novelty software used to have the data
>> > tucked inside.
>>
>> Doesn't matter. I managed to get the full set in individual .jpg format.
>> I am slowly working my way through the issues, one issue at a time,
>> because I haven't yet figured out a way (in bulk) to extract text and
>> use grep on it.
>
> Searching on OCR + comic seems to indicate that OCR-ing comic books
> is still in an experimental stage,

OCR of text superimposed on images is very difficult.

--
You're a brave man. Go and break through the lines. And remember,
while you're out there risking your life and limb through shot and
shell, we'll be in be in here thinking what a sucker you are.
---President Rufus T Firefly

On 5/25/2022 12:16 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Tony Cooper wrote:
> ...

>>> There are two theories of why the leaker leaked.
>>
>>> One is that the leaker is in favor of Roe v Wade being
>>> overturned, and wanted Alito's draft to be public to lock in
>>> Alito's position. In this theory, Alito can't soften his position
>>> later bowing to pressure. The other theory is that leaker doesn't
>>> want Roe v Wade to be overturned, and leaked the draft as a means
>>> of mobilizing opposition to Alito's opinion in the draft.

>> Or getting out the vote in November.

> The announcement this summer would probably be have been just as
> effective at getting out the vote, for both sides, without the leak.

It would. I thought I recalled from news coverage that the final
decision would be made public after the elections.

On 5/21/2022 10:47 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> Paul Wolff wrote:
>>> Sam Plusnet posted:
>>>> Peter Moylan wrote:

> It's very possible that some of the OMG users have
>>>>> no idea that gods were originally being invoked.
>>>> OK.
>>> O Krikey?

>> In that category, a phrase that particularly strikes me is "Gees
>> cripes". Apparently most people are unaware that that has a
>> religious origin.

> An Ozzism?
>
> We have "Crimeny!" [the i pronounced to assonate]

> And, since about 1940, "Jiminy Cricket!" (TC can look up the release
> date of *Pinocchio* if he cares.)

Disney's use of the expression says to me that it was already current.

WP says,'"Jiminy Cricket!" was uttered in Pinocchio's immediate Disney
predecessor, 1937's Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs by the seven dwarfs
as a minced oath. It also occurs in the 1938 Mickey Mouse cartoon "Brave
Little Tailor". The name was uttered once more in 1939's The Wizard of
Oz by the protagonist Dorothy Gale which was done as a reference to Snow
White."'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiminy_Cricket

Gooboo reports that _The hampton Magazine_ has it, in the form "jiminy
crickets" in a story called "The Sudden Fame of Billy Carr". The Gooboo
date for the magazine (1910) is unhelpful, but the illustrations that
accompany the story put it well before Walt's day.

https://www.google.ca/books/edition/The_Hampton_Magazine/8vVMAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=jiminy+crickets&pg=PA771&printsec=frontcover

https://tinyurl.com/4u9ztd2x

On 5/24/2022 4:50 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> PeterWD wrote:
>> "Peter T. Daniels"

[oaths for the million]

>>> And, since about 1940, "Jiminy Cricket!" (TC can look up the
>>> release date of *Pinocchio* if he cares.)

>> Thre is a comedian born in Northern Ireland who uses the stage
>> name Jimmy Cricket. I don't know for sure, but that name might have
>> been inspired by "Jiminy Cricket". He is James Mulgrew and, of
>> course, Jimmy is a diminutive of James.

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Cricket

> Not a hint of the origin of the name! But apparently Irishpersons
> think "cut-off evening trousers" are hilarious, not to mention
> "wellington boots marked "L" and "R" for left and right, but worn on
> the wrong feet."

In New Jersey they mark the soles "open other end".

> b. 1945; *Pinocchio* 1940.

>> https://www.jimmycricket.co.uk/

On 5/21/2022 10:56 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> Bebercito wrote:

>>>> You haven't supported that claim and no native BrE-speakers
>>>> here have confirmed it. The only transpondian difference in
>>>> pronunciation is the shift of the stress from the first (BrE)
>>>> to the second (AmE) syllable.
>>> The BrE pronunciation is more "authentic"? The stress shift
>>> occurred in AmE?!?!?!?!

>> That's part of a fairly widespread phenomenon. Words of relatively
>> recent French origin tend to acquire final-syllable stress in AmE,
>> but

> They don't "acquire" it. That's where the stress _is_ in French
> words (well, breath-groups). But in French it isn't phonemic, so
> Frenchpersons don't hear it and therefore claim it doesn't exist.

>> not in BrE. That's because the British, who have much greater
>> exposure to French, are more likely to copy the French
>> pronunciation, while

> They do not copy the French pronunciation. They throw the stress onto
> the first syllable and screw up the vowels, as in "garridge." The AmE
> pronunciation of "garage" is almost identical to the French
> pronunciation except for the r.

And the vowels, and maybe the final consonant. [gara:Z], [g@'rAZ],
sometimes [g@r&dZ].

>> Americans seem to be more susceptible to the myth that French has
>> final-syllable stress.

>> (Exception: it's a mystery to me how the English got their
>> "garridge" pronunciation.)

> It's where they parked the carriage?
>
> You can hear it happening in all those culinary terms Mary and Paul
> use on the Great British Baking Show.

On 5/21/2022 11:38 AM, Quinn C wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels:
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>> Bebercito wrote:

>>>>> You haven't supported that claim and no native BrE-speakers
>>>>> here have confirmed it. The only transpondian difference in
>>>>> pronunciation is the shift of the stress from the first (BrE)
>>>>> to the second (AmE) syllable.
>>>> The BrE pronunciation is more "authentic"? The stress shift
>>>> occurred in AmE?!?!?!?!

>>> That's part of a fairly widespread phenomenon. Words of
>>> relatively recent French origin tend to acquire final-syllable
>>> stress in AmE, but

>> They don't "acquire" it. That's where the stress _is_ in French
>> words (well, breath-groups). But in French it isn't phonemic, so
>> Frenchpersons don't hear it and therefore claim it doesn't exist.

>>> not in BrE. That's because the British, who have much greater
>>> exposure to French, are more likely to copy the French
>>> pronunciation, while

>> They do not copy the French pronunciation. They throw the stress
>> onto the first syllable and screw up the vowels, as in "garridge."

> The one with stress on the first syllable, but an [a] in the second
> also exists, and is common in some places (Australia?)

>> The AmE pronunciation of "garage" is almost identical to the
>> French pronunciation except for the r.

> And the reduction of the first vowel. In French, both vowels are the
> same. Part of the "French doesn't have stress" argument is that
> there's no reduction of "non-stressed" vowels.

Y en a au Canada, asteur.

--
"A cette heure", that is.

On 26/05/22 21:57, CDB wrote:
> On 5/21/2022 11:38 AM, Quinn C wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels:
>>> Peter Moylan wrote:

[garage]

>>>> not in BrE. That's because the British, who have much greater
>>>> exposure to French, are more likely to copy the French
>>>> pronunciation, while
>
>>> They do not copy the French pronunciation. They throw the stress
>>> onto the first syllable and screw up the vowels, as in
>>> "garridge."
>
>> The one with stress on the first syllable, but an [a] in the
>> second also exists, and is common in some places (Australia?)

There are two common Australian pronunciations. The one with
first-syllable stress is ['g& rAdZ], and the other is [g@ 'rA:dZ].
Neither is very close to the French pronunciation.

>>> The AmE pronunciation of "garage" is almost identical to the
>>> French pronunciation except for the r.
>
>> And the reduction of the first vowel. In French, both vowels are
>> the same. Part of the "French doesn't have stress" argument is
>> that there's no reduction of "non-stressed" vowels.
>
> Y en a au Canada, asteur.

Without your footnote I would not have guessed the meaning of that.

In the French of France I can hear final-word stress in "à cette heure"
if it occurs at the end of a sentence, but not otherwise.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

On 5/22/2022 3:34 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> Paul Wolff <bounceme@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>> Tony Cooper posted:
>>> "Peter T. Daniels"

>>>> Not surprisingly, he has failed to understand the question.

>> That's a bit harsh. He probably understood it but declined to
>> answer it.

>>>> He _describes_ a cafeteria but fails to say whether it is
>>>> _called_ a "cafeteria" or maybe something like "tray
>>>> restaurant."

>> "Fails" or more likely "decides".

>>> I agree with you, and have even added a post specifying the
>>> queston. But, he was not the only one to not see the question.

>>> My question is not about what is found in a business, school, or
>>> other facility that serves just people in that facility. It is
>>> whether or not there are public restaurants in the UK that are
>>> called "cafeterias".

>> I read that as asking whether those establishments had 'Cafeteria'
>> in their names. (Let's not get into 'their name is called...etc.)
>> I'm not aware of any these days, but fifty years ago it's possible
>> that 'The Golden Arch Cafeteria' (substitute your own suggestion)
>> had an existence.

>> But the word 'cafeteria' is well used by talking people in the UK.
>> So they may well be calling the establishment a cafeteria, even
>> when the proprietor isn't using the term. I'd say that 'cafeteria'
>> is perfectly apt in modern BrE for the meal-serving area of a
>> franchised British motorway service station, and that will be open
>> to the whole of the general British public.

> I haven't been in "motorway service station" with cafeteria service.
> Buffet style, yes, but not cafeteria style.

> I'm interpreting "motorway service station" to include both the ones
> on controlled access highways (like a tollway) and the ones
> accessible by leaving an Interstate at an off ramp.
>
> To me, there are important distinctions between cafeteria style and
> buffet style.

> Buffet style allows the person to take large portions of something
> they like, and to return for additional items. All, usually, at one
> fixed price.

> Cafeteria style provides uniform portions doled out by the cafeteria
> worker, and a charge for an additional portion. But, the end cost
> is usually less than the buffet style.

> Buffet items, though, are usually replenished by one worker and
> often not tended frequently enough. The cafeteria style means one
> worker per food type, so the replenishing is more timely.

> My interest in the subject of cafeterias is that I like to sample
> new things, but I'm hesitant to confine my order to something new.
> I'd rather have one portion of the new thing with other things on
> the plate that I know I like.

>>> I know, because I've been in one, that the cafeteria style of
>>> serving at least did exist in the UK, but I'm trying to determine
>>> if that's a term that is used to describe a type of restaurant
>>> that the general public can go to.

>> It seldom comes up in my own conversations with friends. If it did,
>> it would imply an eatery within some sort of other organisation -
>> as in my para above.

At a vegetarian restaurant I haven't been to since the plague started,
You pushed your tray, with plate and cutlery, along the serving line and
took as much as you wanted of what you wanted; at the cash they weighed
your plate and charged you accordingly. Cafeteria-style, perhaps, but
the place was called "The Table". I still hope to go back some time.

On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 7:47:28 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 5/24/2022 4:50 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > PeterWD wrote:

> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Cricket
> > Not a hint of the origin of the name! But apparently Irishpersons
> > think "cut-off evening trousers" are hilarious, not to mention
> > "wellington boots marked "L" and "R" for left and right, but worn on
> > the wrong feet."
>
> In New Jersey they mark the soles "open other end".

Trying to be a cut-rate T*ny C**p*r ill becomes you.

On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 7:54:33 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 5/21/2022 10:56 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >>> Bebercito wrote:

> >>>> You haven't supported that claim and no native BrE-speakers
> >>>> here have confirmed it. The only transpondian difference in
> >>>> pronunciation is the shift of the stress from the first (BrE)
> >>>> to the second (AmE) syllable.
> >>> The BrE pronunciation is more "authentic"? The stress shift
> >>> occurred in AmE?!?!?!?!
> >> That's part of a fairly widespread phenomenon. Words of relatively
> >> recent French origin tend to acquire final-syllable stress in AmE,
> >> but
> > They don't "acquire" it. That's where the stress _is_ in French
> > words (well, breath-groups). But in French it isn't phonemic, so
> > Frenchpersons don't hear it and therefore claim it doesn't exist.
> >> not in BrE. That's because the British, who have much greater
> >> exposure to French, are more likely to copy the French
> >> pronunciation, while
> > They do not copy the French pronunciation. They throw the stress onto
> > the first syllable and screw up the vowels, as in "garridge." The AmE
> > pronunciation of "garage" is almost identical to the French
> > pronunciation except for the r.
>
> And the vowels, and maybe the final consonant. [gara:Z], [g@'rAZ],
> sometimes [g@r&dZ].

???

Is that how the zillionaires in Bronxville said it?

> >> Americans seem to be more susceptible to the myth that French has
> >> final-syllable stress.
> >> (Exception: it's a mystery to me how the English got their
> >> "garridge" pronunciation.)
> > It's where they parked the carriage?
> > You can hear it happening in all those culinary terms Mary and Paul
> > use on the Great British Baking Show.

On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 8:19:13 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:

> At a vegetarian restaurant I haven't been to since the plague started,
> You pushed your tray, with plate and cutlery, along the serving line and
> took as much as you wanted of what you wanted; at the cash they weighed
> your plate and charged you accordingly. Cafeteria-style, perhaps, but
> the place was called "The Table". I still hope to go back some time.

The buffet restaurants we have around here don't have everything strung
out in a single line that you push your tray along, but separate stations that
you carry your tray to. Or don't use trays at all, and you simply load as much
as you can manage onto one plate. When you've cleaned your plate, you go
back to the serving area and take a new plate to fill up.

(Those are the ones where there's a set price for a whole visit. Where they
weigh your takings, you don't get free return visits.)

On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 7:20:10 AM UTC-4, CDB wrote:
> On 5/25/2022 12:16 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > CDB wrote:
> >> Tony Cooper wrote:

> >>> There are two theories of why the leaker leaked.
> >>> One is that the leaker is in favor of Roe v Wade being
> >>> overturned, and wanted Alito's draft to be public to lock in
> >>> Alito's position. In this theory, Alito can't soften his position
> >>> later bowing to pressure. The other theory is that leaker doesn't
> >>> want Roe v Wade to be overturned, and leaked the draft as a means
> >>> of mobilizing opposition to Alito's opinion in the draft.
> >> Or getting out the vote in November.
> > The announcement this summer would probably be have been just as
> > effective at getting out the vote, for both sides, without the leak.
>
> It would. I thought I recalled from news coverage that the final
> decision would be made public after the elections.

Maybe that was referring to "some of the primaries."

SCOTUS only carries over a decision to the following term on the
very rare occasion that a case has to be reargued.

On 5/26/2022 9:46 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> PeterWD wrote:

>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Cricket
>>> Not a hint of the origin of the name! But apparently
>>> Irishpersons think "cut-off evening trousers" are hilarious, not
>>> to mention "wellington boots marked "L" and "R" for left and
>>> right, but worn on the wrong feet."

>> In New Jersey they mark the soles "open other end".

> Trying to be a cut-rate T*ny C**p*r ill becomes you.

I plead self defense. Your crabbiness gets awfully wearing, and not in
a fun way.

On 5/26/2022 9:48 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> CDB wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>> Bebercito wrote:

>>>>>> You haven't supported that claim and no native
>>>>>> BrE-speakers here have confirmed it. The only transpondian
>>>>>> difference in pronunciation is the shift of the stress from
>>>>>> the first (BrE) to the second (AmE) syllable.
>>>>> The BrE pronunciation is more "authentic"? The stress shift
>>>>> occurred in AmE?!?!?!?!
>>>> That's part of a fairly widespread phenomenon. Words of
>>>> relatively recent French origin tend to acquire final-syllable
>>>> stress in AmE, but
>>> They don't "acquire" it. That's where the stress _is_ in French
>>> words (well, breath-groups). But in French it isn't phonemic, so
>>> Frenchpersons don't hear it and therefore claim it doesn't
>>> exist.
>>>> not in BrE. That's because the British, who have much greater
>>>> exposure to French, are more likely to copy the French
>>>> pronunciation, while
>>> They do not copy the French pronunciation. They throw the stress
>>> onto the first syllable and screw up the vowels, as in
>>> "garridge." The AmE pronunciation of "garage" is almost identical
>>> to the French pronunciation except for the r.

>> And the vowels, and maybe the final consonant. [gara:Z], [g@'rAZ],
>> sometimes [g@r&dZ].

> ???

> Is that how the zillionaires in Bronxville said it?

The millionires hung out a bit farther away from Yonkers. (The first
one, [gara:Z], is French.)

>>>> Americans seem to be more susceptible to the myth that French
>>>> has final-syllable stress. (Exception: it's a mystery to me how
>>>> the English got their "garridge" pronunciation.)
>>> It's where they parked the carriage? You can hear it happening in
>>> all those culinary terms Mary and Paul use on the Great British
>>> Baking Show.

Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
> > lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-05-25 11:38, Adam Funk wrote:
> >> > On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On 2022-05-21, lar3ryca wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> On 2022-05-21 02:21, Snidely wrote:
> >> >>>>> Just this Friday, lar3ryca puzzled about:
[-]
> >> >>>> On further reflection, I think I first read it in a MAD Magazine,
> >> >>>> which my brother and I started reading in the early 50s.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Unfortunately, I no longer have a machine on which my MAD Magazine
> >> >>>> CDRoms (1952-1998) will run.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I assume the CDs have *.exe files with the data embedded in
> >> >>> them. Someone who knows Windows programming could probably
> >> >>> reverse-engineer the images out.
> >> >>
> >> >> With some luck it may have scanned pages stored as .jpg files.
> >> >> (or perhaps assembled in .pdf)
> >> >> The .exe should be no more than a front end to the data,
> >> >
> >> > Ideally, yes, but a lot of novelty software used to have the data
> >> > tucked inside.
> >>
> >> Doesn't matter. I managed to get the full set in individual .jpg format.
> >> I am slowly working my way through the issues, one issue at a time,
> >> because I haven't yet figured out a way (in bulk) to extract text and
> >> use grep on it.
> >
> > Searching on OCR + comic seems to indicate that OCR-ing comic books
> > is still in an experimental stage,
>
> OCR of text superimposed on images is very difficult.

Yes, and in the case of comic books it is an example of computer mania.

More practical people see that it is much faster, and much better,
to do it by hand right from the start. [1]
You can easily type it all, and in less time than you would need
to correct all that lousy OCR.

Jan

[1] Reading aloud, spelling non-words, using voice recognition
and correcting while you read might also be practical.

On 2022-05-26 02:45, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-25 14:50, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-05-25 11:38, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-21, lar3ryca wrote:
> [-]
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I no longer have a machine on which my MAD Magazine
>>>>>>>> CDRoms (1952-1998) will run.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I assume the CDs have *.exe files with the data embedded in
>>>>>>> them. Someone who knows Windows programming could probably
>>>>>>> reverse-engineer the images out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With some luck it may have scanned pages stored as .jpg files.
>>>>>> (or perhaps assembled in .pdf)
>>>>>> The .exe should be no more than a front end to the data,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ideally, yes, but a lot of novelty software used to have the data
>>>>> tucked inside.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter. I managed to get the full set in individual .jpg format.
>>>> I am slowly working my way through the issues, one issue at a time,
>>>> because I haven't yet figured out a way (in bulk) to extract text and
>>>> use grep on it.
>>>
>>> Searching on OCR + comic seems to indicate that OCR-ing comic books
>>> is still in an experimental stage,
>>
>> oops... meant to say 'individual PDF files.
>
> Why that? The default format for comic books is .cbr or .cbz

Why what? Why individual PDF files? If so, it's because the ISO
containing all the issues has a PDF file for each issue.

--
What's another word for synonym?

On 2022-05-26 16:45, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-05-26 02:45, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-05-25 14:50, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-05-25 11:38, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-05-25, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-21, lar3ryca wrote:
>> [-]
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I no longer have a machine on which my MAD Magazine
>>>>>>>>> CDRoms (1952-1998) will run.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I assume the CDs have *.exe files with the data embedded in
>>>>>>>> them. Someone who knows Windows programming could probably
>>>>>>>> reverse-engineer the images out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With some luck it may have scanned pages stored as .jpg files.
>>>>>>> (or perhaps assembled in .pdf)
>>>>>>> The .exe should be no more than a front end to the data,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ideally, yes, but a lot of novelty software used to have the data
>>>>>> tucked inside.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't matter. I managed to get the full set in individual .jpg
>>>>> format.
>>>>> I am slowly working my way through the issues, one issue at a time,
>>>>> because I haven't yet figured out a way (in bulk) to extract text and
>>>>> use grep on it.
>>>>
>>>> Searching on OCR + comic seems to indicate that OCR-ing comic books
>>>> is still in an experimental stage,
>>>
>>> oops... meant to say 'individual PDF files.
>>
>> Why that? The default format for comic books is .cbr or .cbz
>
> Why what? Why individual PDF files? If so, it's because the ISO
> containing all the issues has a PDF file for each issue.

OK... I managed to extract all the text from issues 001 to 130.
There are no occurrences of 'sheesh' in any of the text files.
That means that

(a) it was not MAD Magazine I saw 'sheesh' in
or
(b) I saw 'sheesh' in one of the images.

I'm not going to look through all 130 issues to look for it.

--
Who was that gentleman I saw that lady I saw you with with?

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 7:18:33 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> Obaue: Is there a word that is to "prime minister" as "presidency" is to "president"?
> "Premiership"?
>
This may have been partially answered, but I've lost track of the relevant post.
Yes, we in Canada speak of, say, the prime ministership of Justin Trudeau. Not
premiership, which is reserved for provincial premiers. Technically, either term can
apply to the first minister's office in either jurisdiction, but in practice, the terms are
kept separate for clarity.

bill

On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 4:47:28 AM UTC-7, CDB wrote:
> On 5/24/2022 4:50 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > PeterWD wrote:
> >> "Peter T. Daniels"
>
> [oaths for the million]
> >>> And, since about 1940, "Jiminy Cricket!" (TC can look up the
> >>> release date of *Pinocchio* if he cares.)
>
> >> Thre is a comedian born in Northern Ireland who uses the stage
> >> name Jimmy Cricket. I don't know for sure, but that name might have
> >> been inspired by "Jiminy Cricket". He is James Mulgrew and, of
> >> course, Jimmy is a diminutive of James.
>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Cricket
>
> > Not a hint of the origin of the name! But apparently Irishpersons
> > think "cut-off evening trousers" are hilarious, not to mention
> > "wellington boots marked "L" and "R" for left and right, but worn on
> > the wrong feet."

> In New Jersey they mark the soles "open other end".

While simultaneously holding their tongue?

bill

On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 6:06:20 PM UTC-6, bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 7:18:33 AM UTC-7, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >
> > Obaue: Is there a word that is to "prime minister" as "presidency" is to "president"?
> > "Premiership"?
> >
> This may have been partially answered, but I've lost track of the relevant post.
> Yes, we in Canada speak of, say, the prime ministership of Justin Trudeau. Not
> premiership, which is reserved for provincial premiers. Technically, either term can
> apply to the first minister's office in either jurisdiction, but in practice, the terms are
> kept separate for clarity.

Thanks. "Prime ministership" sounds a bit odd to me, but I'm
not the one using it.

--
Jerry Friedman