One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
video footage I've seen of the place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]

I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)

Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
an interesting video.

--
Rhino

On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 16:08:32 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
>the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
>to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
>video footage I've seen of the place.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>
>I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
>always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
>no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
>fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>
>Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
>an interesting video.

Looks much like it did back in the 90s. I spent a week out in the
Phoenix area for work. Now if you head North/North East about 100
miles you will find much more trees and the temps will be much cooler
as you head into the mountains.

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 16:37:35 -0400
shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 16:08:32 -0400, Rhino
> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
> >One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
> >the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
> >to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
> >video footage I've seen of the place.
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
> >
> >I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
> >always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
> >no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus
> >and fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
> >
> >Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find
> >this an interesting video.
>
> Looks much like it did back in the 90s. I spent a week out in the
> Phoenix area for work. Now if you head North/North East about 100
> miles you will find much more trees and the temps will be much cooler
> as you head into the mountains.

Am I safe in assuming that the trees were planted by people rather than
natural processes and that the existence of the trees has caused the
cooler temperatures as approach the mountains?

--
Rhino

On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 17:14:11 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 16:37:35 -0400
>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 16:08:32 -0400, Rhino
>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>
>> >One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
>> >the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
>> >to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
>> >video footage I've seen of the place.
>> >
>> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>> >
>> >I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
>> >always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
>> >no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus
>> >and fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>> >
>> >Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find
>> >this an interesting video.
>>
>> Looks much like it did back in the 90s. I spent a week out in the
>> Phoenix area for work. Now if you head North/North East about 100
>> miles you will find much more trees and the temps will be much cooler
>> as you head into the mountains.
>
>Am I safe in assuming that the trees were planted by people rather than
>natural processes and that the existence of the trees has caused the
>cooler temperatures as approach the mountains?

In the Phoenix area it's mostly planted trees. Going up NE of Phoenix
into the mountains you get trees that were naturally there. The cooler
temps are more due to the higher elevations than the trees as they
aren't the thick groves you see in Canada or on the east coast of the
USA. After all you go north/NE of Phoenix/Scottsdale the elevation
changes from close to sea level up to several thousand feet above sea
level. You can see the change more dramatically at the Grand Canyon
where there can be 10-15 degrees difference between the top of the
canyon and the bottom, a difference of about five thousand feet or
more.

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 18:29:13 -0400
shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 17:14:11 -0400, Rhino
> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 16:37:35 -0400
> >shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 16:08:32 -0400, Rhino
> >> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the
> >> >features of the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and
> >> >I was surprised to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's
> >> >essentially the first video footage I've seen of the place.
> >> >
> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
> >> >
> >> >I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been.
> >> >They always seem to look different than whatever I've
> >> >anticipated. This is no exception. I suppose I was expecting more
> >> >sandy desert and cactus and fewer boulders and scrub grass and
> >> >palm trees ;-)
> >> >
> >> >Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find
> >> >this an interesting video.
> >>
> >> Looks much like it did back in the 90s. I spent a week out in the
> >> Phoenix area for work. Now if you head North/North East about 100
> >> miles you will find much more trees and the temps will be much
> >> cooler as you head into the mountains.
> >
> >Am I safe in assuming that the trees were planted by people rather
> >than natural processes and that the existence of the trees has
> >caused the cooler temperatures as approach the mountains?
>
> In the Phoenix area it's mostly planted trees. Going up NE of Phoenix
> into the mountains you get trees that were naturally there. The cooler
> temps are more due to the higher elevations than the trees as they
> aren't the thick groves you see in Canada or on the east coast of the
> USA. After all you go north/NE of Phoenix/Scottsdale the elevation
> changes from close to sea level up to several thousand feet above sea
> level. You can see the change more dramatically at the Grand Canyon
> where there can be 10-15 degrees difference between the top of the
> canyon and the bottom, a difference of about five thousand feet or
> more.

Thanks for clarifying that. Somehow, I thought you were implying that
the trees alone made all the difference but it seems I misread your
intention ;-)

--
Rhino

On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 18:52:56 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 18:29:13 -0400
>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 17:14:11 -0400, Rhino
>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 16:37:35 -0400
>> >shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 16:08:32 -0400, Rhino
>> >> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the
>> >> >features of the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and
>> >> >I was surprised to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's
>> >> >essentially the first video footage I've seen of the place.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>> >> >
>> >> >I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been.
>> >> >They always seem to look different than whatever I've
>> >> >anticipated. This is no exception. I suppose I was expecting more
>> >> >sandy desert and cactus and fewer boulders and scrub grass and
>> >> >palm trees ;-)
>> >> >
>> >> >Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find
>> >> >this an interesting video.
>> >>
>> >> Looks much like it did back in the 90s. I spent a week out in the
>> >> Phoenix area for work. Now if you head North/North East about 100
>> >> miles you will find much more trees and the temps will be much
>> >> cooler as you head into the mountains.
>> >
>> >Am I safe in assuming that the trees were planted by people rather
>> >than natural processes and that the existence of the trees has
>> >caused the cooler temperatures as approach the mountains?
>>
>> In the Phoenix area it's mostly planted trees. Going up NE of Phoenix
>> into the mountains you get trees that were naturally there. The cooler
>> temps are more due to the higher elevations than the trees as they
>> aren't the thick groves you see in Canada or on the east coast of the
>> USA. After all you go north/NE of Phoenix/Scottsdale the elevation
>> changes from close to sea level up to several thousand feet above sea
>> level. You can see the change more dramatically at the Grand Canyon
>> where there can be 10-15 degrees difference between the top of the
>> canyon and the bottom, a difference of about five thousand feet or
>> more.
>
>Thanks for clarifying that. Somehow, I thought you were implying that
>the trees alone made all the difference but it seems I misread your
>intention ;-)

No, I was just commenting on the expectations that many people, myself
included might have for a place like Arizona. Expecting there to be no
trees at all when in fact, depending upon the climate (which can vary
depending upon the elevation), there can be plenty of trees and other
types of greenery.
Arizona is just one of those places where you can feel the difference
the elevation makes in the temp in just a few hours by just walking in
a place like the Grand Canyon. Normally we would have to drive for
hours to see a significant change in temps that are solely due to
elevation changes.

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 21:09:58 -0400
shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 18:52:56 -0400, Rhino
> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 18:29:13 -0400
> >shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 17:14:11 -0400, Rhino
> >> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 16:37:35 -0400
> >> >shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 16:08:32 -0400, Rhino
> >> >> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the
> >> >> >features of the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software
> >> >> >and I was surprised to find that it was made in Scottsdale.
> >> >> >It's essentially the first video footage I've seen of the
> >> >> >place.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been.
> >> >> >They always seem to look different than whatever I've
> >> >> >anticipated. This is no exception. I suppose I was expecting
> >> >> >more sandy desert and cactus and fewer boulders and scrub
> >> >> >grass and palm trees ;-)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might
> >> >> >find this an interesting video.
> >> >>
> >> >> Looks much like it did back in the 90s. I spent a week out in
> >> >> the Phoenix area for work. Now if you head North/North East
> >> >> about 100 miles you will find much more trees and the temps
> >> >> will be much cooler as you head into the mountains.
> >> >
> >> >Am I safe in assuming that the trees were planted by people rather
> >> >than natural processes and that the existence of the trees has
> >> >caused the cooler temperatures as approach the mountains?
> >>
> >> In the Phoenix area it's mostly planted trees. Going up NE of
> >> Phoenix into the mountains you get trees that were naturally
> >> there. The cooler temps are more due to the higher elevations than
> >> the trees as they aren't the thick groves you see in Canada or on
> >> the east coast of the USA. After all you go north/NE of
> >> Phoenix/Scottsdale the elevation changes from close to sea level
> >> up to several thousand feet above sea level. You can see the
> >> change more dramatically at the Grand Canyon where there can be
> >> 10-15 degrees difference between the top of the canyon and the
> >> bottom, a difference of about five thousand feet or more.
> >
> >Thanks for clarifying that. Somehow, I thought you were implying that
> >the trees alone made all the difference but it seems I misread your
> >intention ;-)
>
> No, I was just commenting on the expectations that many people, myself
> included might have for a place like Arizona. Expecting there to be no
> trees at all when in fact, depending upon the climate (which can vary
> depending upon the elevation), there can be plenty of trees and other
> types of greenery.
> Arizona is just one of those places where you can feel the difference
> the elevation makes in the temp in just a few hours by just walking in
> a place like the Grand Canyon. Normally we would have to drive for
> hours to see a significant change in temps that are solely due to
> elevation changes.

We're "on the same page" now ;-) Thanks for explaining what you meant.

--
Rhino

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
> the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
> to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
> video footage I've seen of the place.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>
> I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
> always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
> no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
> fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>
> Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
> an interesting video.
>

Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.

It does confuse me on several points.

The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s about 15
miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are all over the
place. There are literally half a dozen between the one he went to and his
friends house so I have no idea why he did that.

The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very near
my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.

Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas, shopping
centers. That is what those things look like but if you drove around
through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a lot more lawns and
greenery. Traditionally people move here from back east to get away from
their allergies and bring with them everything they were allergic to.

Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
from below.

Several of his comments on the Tesla perplexed me. They’ve been trying to
sell me one for years and years (whenever I used to go to fashion Square
mall, I would visit the dealership that Jake Paul destroyed) and one of the
selling points several years ago was that the self driving version would in
fact park itself. You are supposed to be able to have it drop you off at
the restaurants front door, find itself a parking space, And when you’re
done, it will come and get you. Apparently they never implemented or have
removed this feature.

Unlike him, I can think of lots of reasons for self driving cars, the first
being that most people are too useless to be driving!

We have Waymo completely autonomous vehicles here. Recently one was
bringing me groceries or something and I watched on the tracking software
map as it tried to find my house for 20 minutes driving right by it several
times. If I had been a passenger in there, I would’ve been frantic by the
time it found the place.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

In article
<1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> > One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
> > the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
> > to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
> > video footage I've seen of the place.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
> >
> > I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
> > always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
> > no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
> > fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
> >
> > Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
> > an interesting video.
> >
>
> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.
>
> It does confuse me on several points.
>
> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s about 15
> miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are all over the
> place. There are literally half a dozen between the one he went to and his
> friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
>
> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very near
> my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
>
> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas, shopping
> centers. That is what those things look like but if you drove around
> through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a lot more lawns and
> greenery. Traditionally people move here from back east to get away from
> their allergies and bring with them everything they were allergic to.
>
> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
> feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
> house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
> from below.

Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.

I've read that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
that's true or not.

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article
><1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> > One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
>> > the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
>> > to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
>> > video footage I've seen of the place.
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>> >
>> > I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
>> > always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
>> > no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
>> > fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>> >
>> > Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
>> > an interesting video.
>> >
>>
>> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.
>>
>> It does confuse me on several points.
>>
>> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s about 15
>> miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are all over the
>> place. There are literally half a dozen between the one he went to and his
>> friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
>>
>> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very near
>> my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
>>
>> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas, shopping
>> centers. That is what those things look like but if you drove around
>> through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a lot more lawns and
>> greenery. Traditionally people move here from back east to get away from
>> their allergies and bring with them everything they were allergic to.
>>
>> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
>> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
>> feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
>> house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
>> from below.
>
>Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
>California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
>species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.
>
>I've read that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
>that's true or not.

So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed with
the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and neither one
actually belongs there.

In article <k9sd1j9c6lubcssglu2u5f5cki5jfg86ol@4ax.com>,
shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> > anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> >> > One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
> >> > the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
> >> > to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
> >> > video footage I've seen of the place.
> >> >
> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
> >> >
> >> > I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
> >> > always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
> >> > no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
> >> > fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
> >> > an interesting video.
> >> >
> >> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.
> >>
> >> It does confuse me on several points.
> >>
> >> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s about 15
> >> miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are all over the
> >> place. There are literally half a dozen between the one he went to and his
> >> friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
> >>
> >> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very near
> >> my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
> >>
> >> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas, shopping
> >> centers. That is what those things look like but if you drove around
> >> through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a lot more lawns and
> >> greenery. Traditionally people move here from back east to get away from
> >> their allergies and bring with them everything they were allergic to.
> >>
> >> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
> >> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
> >> feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
> >> house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
> >> from below.
> >
> >Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
> >California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
> >species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.
> >
> >I've heard that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
> >that's true or not.
>
> So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed with
> the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and neither one
> actually belongs there.

The person who told me they're not trees said they're technically a type
of grass.

On 4/10/2024 1:07 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>> One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
>>>> the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
>>>> to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
>>>> video footage I've seen of the place.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>>>>
>>>> I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
>>>> always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
>>>> no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
>>>> fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
>>>> an interesting video.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.
>>>
>>> It does confuse me on several points.
>>>
>>> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s about 15
>>> miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are all over the
>>> place. There are literally half a dozen between the one he went to and his
>>> friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
>>>
>>> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very near
>>> my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
>>>
>>> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas, shopping
>>> centers. That is what those things look like but if you drove around
>>> through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a lot more lawns and
>>> greenery. Traditionally people move here from back east to get away from
>>> their allergies and bring with them everything they were allergic to.
>>>
>>> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
>>> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
>>> feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
>>> house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
>>> from below.
>>
>> Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
>> California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
>> species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.
>>
>> I've read that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
>> that's true or not.
>
> So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed with
> the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and neither one
> actually belongs there.
>
Tumbleweeds are real and they're found all over the West, maybe in the
midwest too. I've seen them and I live more than 1000 from SoCal.

On 4/10/2024 1:38 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <k9sd1j9c6lubcssglu2u5f5cki5jfg86ol@4ax.com>,
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>> One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
>>>>> the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
>>>>> to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
>>>>> video footage I've seen of the place.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
>>>>> always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
>>>>> no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
>>>>> fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
>>>>> an interesting video.
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.
>>>>
>>>> It does confuse me on several points.
>>>>
>>>> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s about 15
>>>> miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are all over the
>>>> place. There are literally half a dozen between the one he went to and his
>>>> friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
>>>>
>>>> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very near
>>>> my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
>>>>
>>>> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas, shopping
>>>> centers. That is what those things look like but if you drove around
>>>> through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a lot more lawns and
>>>> greenery. Traditionally people move here from back east to get away from
>>>> their allergies and bring with them everything they were allergic to.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
>>>> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
>>>> feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
>>>> house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
>>>> from below.
>>>
>>> Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
>>> California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
>>> species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.
>>>
>>> I've heard that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
>>> that's true or not.
>>
>> So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed with
>> the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and neither one
>> actually belongs there.
>
> The person who told me they're not trees said they're technically a type
> of grass.
>
All trees are a type of grass until they get larger.

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:36:15 -0700, suzeeq <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:

>On 4/10/2024 1:07 PM, shawn wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>> One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
>>>>> the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
>>>>> to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
>>>>> video footage I've seen of the place.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>>>>>
>>>>> I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
>>>>> always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
>>>>> no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
>>>>> fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
>>>>> an interesting video.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.
>>>>
>>>> It does confuse me on several points.
>>>>
>>>> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s about 15
>>>> miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are all over the
>>>> place. There are literally half a dozen between the one he went to and his
>>>> friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
>>>>
>>>> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very near
>>>> my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
>>>>
>>>> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas, shopping
>>>> centers. That is what those things look like but if you drove around
>>>> through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a lot more lawns and
>>>> greenery. Traditionally people move here from back east to get away from
>>>> their allergies and bring with them everything they were allergic to.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
>>>> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
>>>> feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
>>>> house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
>>>> from below.
>>>
>>> Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
>>> California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
>>> species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.
>>>
>>> I've read that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
>>> that's true or not.
>>
>> So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed with
>> the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and neither one
>> actually belongs there.
>>
>Tumbleweeds are real and they're found all over the West, maybe in the
>midwest too. I've seen them and I live more than 1000 from SoCal.

Sure, they are real. Nobody is discounting that. I was referring to
them being an invasive species. I believe they first came from Russia
and have taken off like crazy. If I'm remembering right they showed up
after the Wild West days which is why I talked about the general
public associating tumbleweeds with the old west when the tumbleweed
showed up after the old west days were gone.

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:38:25 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <k9sd1j9c6lubcssglu2u5f5cki5jfg86ol@4ax.com>,
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article
>> ><1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
>> > anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> >> > One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
>> >> > the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
>> >> > to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
>> >> > video footage I've seen of the place.
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>> >> >
>> >> > I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
>> >> > always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
>> >> > no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
>> >> > fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>> >> >
>> >> > Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
>> >> > an interesting video.
>> >> >
>> >> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.
>> >>
>> >> It does confuse me on several points.
>> >>
>> >> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s about 15
>> >> miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are all over the
>> >> place. There are literally half a dozen between the one he went to and his
>> >> friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
>> >>
>> >> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very near
>> >> my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
>> >>
>> >> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas, shopping
>> >> centers. That is what those things look like but if you drove around
>> >> through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a lot more lawns and
>> >> greenery. Traditionally people move here from back east to get away from
>> >> their allergies and bring with them everything they were allergic to.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
>> >> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
>> >> feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
>> >> house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
>> >> from below.
>> >
>> >Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
>> >California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
>> >species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.
>> >
>> >I've heard that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
>> >that's true or not.
>>
>> So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed with
>> the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and neither one
>> actually belongs there.
>
>The person who told me they're not trees said they're technically a type
>of grass.

Yeah, that seems to be the case judging by this response over the
Googlemeister.

Grasses belong to Poaceae family and Palms belong to Arecaceae family.
Both have parallel venation in leaves. Palm trees do not have bark or
woody tissue like other trees. These are the reasons that it might be
recognized as a grass and not a tree.

So, botanically speaking, palms are big grass. However, when
discussing plants in the landscape, many palms are rather tall so they
are designated as trees to separate them from shrubs and ground
covers.

In article <n6vd1jd2qfd9fsef700em2pq2c02qvqmko@4ax.com>,
shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:36:15 -0700, suzeeq <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:
>
> >On 4/10/2024 1:07 PM, shawn wrote:
> >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article
> >>> <1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> >>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> >>>> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
> >>>> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are
> >>>> 50 feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to
> >>>> the house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on
> >>>> the eaves from below.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
> >>> California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
> >>> species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.
> >>>
> >>> I've read that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
> >>> that's true or not.
> >>
> >> So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed with
> >> the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and neither one
> >> actually belongs there.
> >>
> >Tumbleweeds are real and they're found all over the West, maybe in the
> >midwest too. I've seen them and I live more than 1000 from SoCal.
>
> Sure, they are real. Nobody is discounting that. I was referring to
> them being an invasive species. I believe they first came from Russia
> and have taken off like crazy. If I'm remembering right they showed up
> after the Wild West days which is why I talked about the general
> public associating tumbleweeds with the old west when the tumbleweed
> showed up after the old west days were gone.

On one of my yearly driving trips from L.A. back to Texas for Christmas,
I was in New Mexico and the wind was really blowing and suddenly there
were thousands of tumbleweeds-- not small ones, either, some half the
size of my 4Runner-- bouncing across the highway from side to the other
all around me, hitting the side of the SUV, going over the top of it,
etc. I couldn't see anything ahead of me so I just pulled over to wait
it out and hoped it didn't last long.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

>>>. . .

>>>Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
>>>rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
>>>feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
>>>house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
>>>from below.

>>Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
>>California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
>>species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.

>>I've read that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
>>that's true or not.

>So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed with
>the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and neither one
>actually belongs there.

It's Hollywood. It's all supposed to be unreal!

On 4/10/2024 1:58 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:36:15 -0700, suzeeq <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2024 1:07 PM, shawn wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article
>>>> <1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
>>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>> One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features of
>>>>>> the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was surprised
>>>>>> to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially the first
>>>>>> video footage I've seen of the place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
>>>>>> always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This is
>>>>>> no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and cactus and
>>>>>> fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find this
>>>>>> an interesting video.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.
>>>>>
>>>>> It does confuse me on several points.
>>>>>
>>>>> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s about 15
>>>>> miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are all over the
>>>>> place. There are literally half a dozen between the one he went to and his
>>>>> friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
>>>>>
>>>>> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very near
>>>>> my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas, shopping
>>>>> centers. That is what those things look like but if you drove around
>>>>> through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a lot more lawns and
>>>>> greenery. Traditionally people move here from back east to get away from
>>>>> their allergies and bring with them everything they were allergic to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
>>>>> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later are 50
>>>>> feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too close to the
>>>>> house and were going to take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves
>>>>> from below.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native to
>>>> California, either. They're an invasive species (actually several
>>>> species) that people just happen to find attractive for landscaping.
>>>>
>>>> I've read that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know if
>>>> that's true or not.
>>>
>>> So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed with
>>> the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and neither one
>>> actually belongs there.
>>>
>> Tumbleweeds are real and they're found all over the West, maybe in the
>> midwest too. I've seen them and I live more than 1000 from SoCal.
>
> Sure, they are real. Nobody is discounting that. I was referring to
> them being an invasive species. I believe they first came from Russia

Yeah, my dad sometimes called them Russian thistles.

> and have taken off like crazy. If I'm remembering right they showed up
> after the Wild West days which is why I talked about the general
> public associating tumbleweeds with the old west when the tumbleweed
> showed up after the old west days were gone.
>

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:05:25 -0700
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> > One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features
> > of the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was
> > surprised to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially
> > the first video footage I've seen of the place.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
> >
> > I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
> > always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This
> > is no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and
> > cactus and fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
> >
> > Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find
> > this an interesting video.
> >
>
> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.

That's a bit surprising; I thought you'd find it boring because all of
that is so familiar to you ;-)
>
> It does confuse me on several points.
>
> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s
> about 15 miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are
> all over the place. There are literally half a dozen between the one
> he went to and his friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
>
More of a driving challenge for the car??

> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very
> near my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
>
Now you'll have to give it a try ;-)

> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas,
> shopping centers. That is what those things look like but if you
> drove around through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a
> lot more lawns and greenery. Traditionally people move here from back
> east to get away from their allergies and bring with them everything
> they were allergic to.
>
Green lawns would be nice but, as you say, he doesn't spend much time
in the 'burbs.

What things are people bringing with them that reinforce their
allergies? Are we talking about bringing cats if they're allergic to
them, that kind of thing?
> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later
> are 50 feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too
> close to the house and were going to take the roof right off as they
> pushed on the eaves from below.
>
The thing that most surprised me when I saw palm trees in California is
how very dry they seemed. I'm not sure how to describe it better than
that. I suppose I think of them as a jungle tree and that jungles get a
lot of rain so why do these trees seem so dry?

> Several of his comments on the Tesla perplexed me. They’ve been
> trying to sell me one for years and years (whenever I used to go to
> fashion Square mall, I would visit the dealership that Jake Paul
> destroyed) and one of the selling points several years ago was that
> the self driving version would in fact park itself. You are supposed
> to be able to have it drop you off at the restaurants front door,
> find itself a parking space, And when you’re done, it will come and
> get you. Apparently they never implemented or have removed this
> feature.
>
No, it's not gone. In fact, it's become a basic feature. Or so says the
friend who sent me the link. He has a Tesla and I asked him that same
question: the video implied that the car couldn't park itself but I
thought that was a common feature. His reply was:

======================================================================Yes it does autopark, just not within FSD [Full Self Driving package,
the feature/software that is being highlighted in the video.] This is
part of the basic level. My enhanced autopilot option includes "smart
summon" which, based on a button in my tesla app on my phone, will pull
out of where it is parked and come to pick me up wherever I'm standing,
driving by itself through the parking lot. Not on streets though. Elon
has said that this will all be consolidated and include "banish" which
will tell your car to go park itself too.

========================================================================
> Unlike him, I can think of lots of reasons for self driving cars, the
> first being that most people are too useless to be driving!
>
Amen to that!

> We have Waymo completely autonomous vehicles here. Recently one was
> bringing me groceries or something and I watched on the tracking
> software map as it tried to find my house for 20 minutes driving
> right by it several times. If I had been a passenger in there, I
> would’ve been frantic by the time it found the place.
>
Yeah, I could imagine being a passenger in a car trying to find a place
that it was right in front of but that it apparently couldn't "see".
I'd be looking for some kind of "abort" button to take it out
of automatic mode or some kind of "just drop me here" button.

Apparently, the Tesla equivalent, the "robotaxi" is coming out this
summer.

I was going to ask you - and the other Americans in this thread - if
you're all starting to see roundabouts in your area the last few years?
It's not that long ago that we had essentially none in all of southern
Ontario. Now they seem to be the "go to" choice for lots of situations.
I'm not sure why that happened but it's very common now. I had
understood that roundabouts are extremely rare in the US too but my
friend is hearing that they are springing up all over in the US now.
There was one in that video so maybe he's correct.
--
Rhino

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 14:13:43 -0700
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> In article <n6vd1jd2qfd9fsef700em2pq2c02qvqmko@4ax.com>,
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 13:36:15 -0700, suzeeq <suzeeq@imbris.com>
> > wrote:
> > >On 4/10/2024 1:07 PM, shawn wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 12:55:54 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> In article
> > >>> <1782814550.734460645.097495.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> > >>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > >>>> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are
> > >>>> actually rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then
> > >>>> decades later are 50 feet tall. I have had several removed
> > >>>> because they were too close to the house and were going to
> > >>>> take the roof right off as they pushed on the eaves from
> > >>>> below.
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, L.A.'s ubiquitous and signature palm trees are not native
> > >>> to California, either. They're an invasive species (actually
> > >>> several species) that people just happen to find attractive for
> > >>> landscaping.
> > >>>
> > >>> I've read that palms are also technically not trees. Don't know
> > >>> if that's true or not.
> > >>
> > >> So it is just like the tumbleweed. We associate the tumbleweed
> > >> with the old west and palm trees with Los Angeles/Hollywood and
> > >> neither one actually belongs there.
> > >>
> > >Tumbleweeds are real and they're found all over the West, maybe in
> > >the midwest too. I've seen them and I live more than 1000 from
> > >SoCal.
> >
> > Sure, they are real. Nobody is discounting that. I was referring to
> > them being an invasive species. I believe they first came from
> > Russia and have taken off like crazy. If I'm remembering right they
> > showed up after the Wild West days which is why I talked about the
> > general public associating tumbleweeds with the old west when the
> > tumbleweed showed up after the old west days were gone.
>
> On one of my yearly driving trips from L.A. back to Texas for
> Christmas, I was in New Mexico and the wind was really blowing and
> suddenly there were thousands of tumbleweeds-- not small ones,
> either, some half the size of my 4Runner-- bouncing across the
> highway from side to the other all around me, hitting the side of the
> SUV, going over the top of it, etc. I couldn't see anything ahead of
> me so I just pulled over to wait it out and hoped it didn't last long.

Did they damage your car? I can imagine scratches as they brushed by
your car....

--
Rhino

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 21:22:56 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:05:25 -0700
>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> > One of my friends just shared a video with me touting the features
>> > of the latest Tesla FSD (Full Self Driving) software and I was
>> > surprised to find that it was made in Scottsdale. It's essentially
>> > the first video footage I've seen of the place.
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX4kekZ2Fps [25 minutes]
>> >
>> > I've always found it interesting to see places I've never been. They
>> > always seem to look different than whatever I've anticipated. This
>> > is no exception. I suppose I was expecting more sandy desert and
>> > cactus and fewer boulders and scrub grass and palm trees ;-)
>> >
>> > Anyway, anyone curious to see what the area looks like might find
>> > this an interesting video.
>> >
>>
>> Thanks for the post. I found it an interesting watch.
>
>That's a bit surprising; I thought you'd find it boring because all of
>that is so familiar to you ;-)
>>
>> It does confuse me on several points.
>>
>> The bashes he went to (supermarket) isn’t even in Scottsdale. It’s
>> about 15 miles to the south in another city. Bashes supermarkets are
>> all over the place. There are literally half a dozen between the one
>> he went to and his friends house so I have no idea why he did that.
>>
>More of a driving challenge for the car??
>
>> The cheesesteak place he went to, I’ve never heard of, but it’s very
>> near my old office, and only a couple miles from where I live.
>>
>Now you'll have to give it a try ;-)
>
>> Most of what you see in the video are freeways, industrial areas,
>> shopping centers. That is what those things look like but if you
>> drove around through neighborhoods people live in, you would see a
>> lot more lawns and greenery. Traditionally people move here from back
>> east to get away from their allergies and bring with them everything
>> they were allergic to.
>>
>Green lawns would be nice but, as you say, he doesn't spend much time
>in the 'burbs.
>
>What things are people bringing with them that reinforce their
>allergies? Are we talking about bringing cats if they're allergic to
>them, that kind of thing?

All sorts of plants and flowers and grass. Things that have ended up
giving people with grass/pollen allergies running into the same
allergies in Phoenix. This was true back in the 90s so I imagine it is
even worse now.

>> Yes, palm trees are everywhere! I have had several. They are actually
>> rogue. They just appear in your yard one day and then decades later
>> are 50 feet tall. I have had several removed because they were too
>> close to the house and were going to take the roof right off as they
>> pushed on the eaves from below.
>>
>The thing that most surprised me when I saw palm trees in California is
>how very dry they seemed. I'm not sure how to describe it better than
>that. I suppose I think of them as a jungle tree and that jungles get a
>lot of rain so why do these trees seem so dry?

They should be dry on the outside so as to keep the water inside the
protective outside.

>> Several of his comments on the Tesla perplexed me. They’ve been
>> trying to sell me one for years and years (whenever I used to go to
>> fashion Square mall, I would visit the dealership that Jake Paul
>> destroyed) and one of the selling points several years ago was that
>> the self driving version would in fact park itself. You are supposed
>> to be able to have it drop you off at the restaurants front door,
>> find itself a parking space, And when you’re done, it will come and
>> get you. Apparently they never implemented or have removed this
>> feature.
>>
>No, it's not gone. In fact, it's become a basic feature. Or so says the
>friend who sent me the link. He has a Tesla and I asked him that same
>question: the video implied that the car couldn't park itself but I
>thought that was a common feature. His reply was:
>
>=======================================================================
>Yes it does autopark, just not within FSD [Full Self Driving package,
>the feature/software that is being highlighted in the video.] This is
>part of the basic level. My enhanced autopilot option includes "smart
>summon" which, based on a button in my tesla app on my phone, will pull
>out of where it is parked and come to pick me up wherever I'm standing,
>driving by itself through the parking lot. Not on streets though. Elon
>has said that this will all be consolidated and include "banish" which
>will tell your car to go park itself too.

So it's all part of Elon's plan to nickel and dime people who buy a
Tesla.

>========================================================================
>> Unlike him, I can think of lots of reasons for self driving cars, the
>> first being that most people are too useless to be driving!
>>
>Amen to that!
>
>> We have Waymo completely autonomous vehicles here. Recently one was
>> bringing me groceries or something and I watched on the tracking
>> software map as it tried to find my house for 20 minutes driving
>> right by it several times. If I had been a passenger in there, I
>> would’ve been frantic by the time it found the place.
>>
>Yeah, I could imagine being a passenger in a car trying to find a place
>that it was right in front of but that it apparently couldn't "see".
>I'd be looking for some kind of "abort" button to take it out
>of automatic mode or some kind of "just drop me here" button.
>
>Apparently, the Tesla equivalent, the "robotaxi" is coming out this
>summer.

No, it's just Elon saying it will come out this summer. Given his past
predictions covering Tesla features I wouldn't expect to see it till
2026/2027 at the earliest.

>I was going to ask you - and the other Americans in this thread - if
>you're all starting to see roundabouts in your area the last few years?
>It's not that long ago that we had essentially none in all of southern
>Ontario. Now they seem to be the "go to" choice for lots of situations.
>I'm not sure why that happened but it's very common now. I had
>understood that roundabouts are extremely rare in the US too but my
>friend is hearing that they are springing up all over in the US now.
>There was one in that video so maybe he's correct.

Not around here. Only roundabout I'm familiar with in Georgia was in
Thomaston. Which has been in place for decades in the town center.

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
> I was going to ask you - and the other Americans in this thread - if
> you're all starting to see roundabouts in your area the last few years?
> It's not that long ago that we had essentially none in all of southern
> Ontario. Now they seem to be the "go to" choice for lots of situations.
> I'm not sure why that happened but it's very common now. I had
> understood that roundabouts are extremely rare in the US too but my
> friend is hearing that they are springing up all over in the US now.
> There was one in that video so maybe he's correct.

Yes, they’re springing up like tumbleweeds. Usually for a stupid reason.
Like a cheerleader barreled through an intersection at three times the
speed limit so they decided they should put roundabout in there. She
wouldn’t have noticed that anymore than she would’ve noticed the stop sign
so she would’ve just hit it and landed on somebody else.

They don’t have any signage, and nobody knows who has the right of way and
so basically they’re freaking dangerous.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 10:50:35 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was going to ask you - and the other Americans in this thread - if
>> you're all starting to see roundabouts in your area the last few years?
>> It's not that long ago that we had essentially none in all of southern
>> Ontario. Now they seem to be the "go to" choice for lots of situations.
>> I'm not sure why that happened but it's very common now. I had
>> understood that roundabouts are extremely rare in the US too but my
>> friend is hearing that they are springing up all over in the US now.
>> There was one in that video so maybe he's correct.
>
>Yes, they’re springing up like tumbleweeds. Usually for a stupid reason.
>Like a cheerleader barreled through an intersection at three times the
>speed limit so they decided they should put roundabout in there. She
>wouldn’t have noticed that anymore than she would’ve noticed the stop sign
>so she would’ve just hit it and landed on somebody else.
>
>They don’t have any signage, and nobody knows who has the right of way and
>so basically they’re freaking dangerous.

The idea is that supposedly because of that uncertainty people will
drive slower and thus limit the # of accidents and the severity of any
accidents that do happen. Though for people like the cheerleader or
someone who is drunk enough it won't do a thing to stop them.

On 4/12/2024 10:50 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was going to ask you - and the other Americans in this thread - if
>> you're all starting to see roundabouts in your area the last few years?
>> It's not that long ago that we had essentially none in all of southern
>> Ontario. Now they seem to be the "go to" choice for lots of situations.
>> I'm not sure why that happened but it's very common now. I had
>> understood that roundabouts are extremely rare in the US too but my
>> friend is hearing that they are springing up all over in the US now.
>> There was one in that video so maybe he's correct.
>
> Yes, they’re springing up like tumbleweeds. Usually for a stupid reason.
> Like a cheerleader barreled through an intersection at three times the
> speed limit so they decided they should put roundabout in there. She
> wouldn’t have noticed that anymore than she would’ve noticed the stop sign
> so she would’ve just hit it and landed on somebody else.
>
> They don’t have any signage, and nobody knows who has the right of way and
> so basically they’re freaking dangerous.
>
The vehicle in the round part has the right of way.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 4/12/2024 12:26 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 10:50:35 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I was going to ask you - and the other Americans in this thread - if
>>> you're all starting to see roundabouts in your area the last few years?
>>> It's not that long ago that we had essentially none in all of southern
>>> Ontario. Now they seem to be the "go to" choice for lots of situations.
>>> I'm not sure why that happened but it's very common now. I had
>>> understood that roundabouts are extremely rare in the US too but my
>>> friend is hearing that they are springing up all over in the US now.
>>> There was one in that video so maybe he's correct.
>>
>> Yes, they’re springing up like tumbleweeds. Usually for a stupid reason.
>> Like a cheerleader barreled through an intersection at three times the
>> speed limit so they decided they should put roundabout in there. She
>> wouldn’t have noticed that anymore than she would’ve noticed the stop sign
>> so she would’ve just hit it and landed on somebody else.
>>
>> They don’t have any signage, and nobody knows who has the right of way and
>> so basically they’re freaking dangerous.
>
> The idea is that supposedly because of that uncertainty people will
> drive slower and thus limit the # of accidents and the severity of any
> accidents that do happen. Though for people like the cheerleader or
> someone who is drunk enough it won't do a thing to stop them.

I don't think that's it. Tests have shown that a roundabout can handle
more traffic than a four-way stop sign intersection.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.