we often keep the butter in a plastic container that
will hold a pound at a time (it holds more than a pound
but we don't worry about that). alas, once in a while
the butter will start growing mold on it.

i had cleaned the container recently enough that i
thought i was safe when i refilled it last time but the
cross-contamination gremlin did strike again and so it
started going green.

Mom is not very concerned about this sort of thing so
she was going to just eat it. i don't like blue cheese
flavored butter so i will end up trying to rescue the
good butter and get rid of the rest.

today, i decided to try something different and i
rinsed the butter with hot water and drained off the
water and anything runny and then put the butter in
the fridge to harden back up again. i'm going to
leave it in the fridge for now and see what happens
and if i can still smell the blue cheese odor the
next time i open it.

in a side note, the use of butter today was to go
on the top of some macaroni and tomato chunks which
were freshly made by me because i had wanted some
for the past week but didn't have the time or energy
to cook it until this morning. fresh al-dente pasta
and home grown tomato chunks. warmed up again after
adding the tomato chunks to the drained pasta and
then i warm up a portion in the microwave while the
remaining pan is heating back up. this way it is
hot faster and the pasta is not mushy. melt the
butter on top. enjoy!

we both had a bowl and the leftovers will be
available for the next few days and if wanted can
be adapted into other dishes too so it's very much
an easy step to other meals - but most of them will
be eaten as is (with butter melted on top).

songbird

On 12/22/2023 5:19 PM, songbird wrote:
> we often keep the butter in a plastic container that
> will hold a pound at a time (it holds more than a pound
> but we don't worry about that). alas, once in a while
> the butter will start growing mold on it.
>
> i had cleaned the container recently enough that i
> thought i was safe when i refilled it last time but the
> cross-contamination gremlin did strike again and so it
> started going green.

> songbird

How long do you keep the butter? At what temperature?

Never had butter turn on me in the fridge, or out for a week or so in a
dish. Perhaps you should use a smaller container? Half pound at a time?

On 2023-12-22 3:46 p.m., Ed P wrote:
> On 12/22/2023 5:19 PM, songbird wrote:
>>    we often keep the butter in a plastic container that
>> will hold a pound at a time (it holds more than a pound
>> but we don't worry about that).  alas, once in a while
>> the butter will start growing mold on it.
>>
>>    i had cleaned the container recently enough that i
>> thought i was safe when i refilled it last time but the
>> cross-contamination gremlin did strike again and so it
>> started going green.
>
>>    songbird
>
> How long do you keep the butter?  At what temperature?
>
> Never had butter turn on me in the fridge, or out for a week or so in a
> dish.  Perhaps you should use a smaller container?  Half pound at a time?

I've has unsalted butter get mouldy in the fridge. I use it in baking
and I ought to freeze the unused sticks but sometimes forget.

Graham wrote:
> On 2023-12-22 3:46 p.m., Ed P wrote:
>> On 12/22/2023 5:19 PM, songbird wrote:
>>>    we often keep the butter in a plastic container that
>>> will hold a pound at a time (it holds more than a pound
>>> but we don't worry about that).  alas, once in a while
>>> the butter will start growing mold on it.
>>>
>>>    i had cleaned the container recently enough that i
>>> thought i was safe when i refilled it last time but the
>>> cross-contamination gremlin did strike again and so it
>>> started going green.
>>
>>>    songbird
>>
>> How long do you keep the butter?  At what temperature?
>>
>> Never had butter turn on me in the fridge, or out for a week
>> or so in a dish.  Perhaps you should use a smaller
>> container?  Half pound at a time?
>
> I've has unsalted butter get mouldy in the fridge. I use it in
> baking
> and I ought to freeze the unused sticks but sometimes forget.

If there is a slight amount of mold, is it still deadly?

I've eaten many things that had a little bit of mold, without
dying. I know some molds are pretty poisonous. I've seen
mention of "pink" molds on rice. And I know some molds can give
an "off" taste, but that's another matter.

But generally speaking, graham, is a slight amount of mold
really deadly?

On 22/12/2023 22:46, Ed P wrote:
> On 12/22/2023 5:19 PM, songbird wrote:
>>    we often keep the butter in a plastic container that
>> will hold a pound at a time (it holds more than a pound
>> but we don't worry about that).  alas, once in a while
>> the butter will start growing mold on it.
>>
>>    i had cleaned the container recently enough that i
>> thought i was safe when i refilled it last time but the
>> cross-contamination gremlin did strike again and so it
>> started going green.
>
>>    songbird
>
> How long do you keep the butter?  At what temperature?
>
> Never had butter turn on me in the fridge, or out for a week or so in a
> dish.  Perhaps you should use a smaller container?  Half pound at a time?

We only put out a quarter pound at a time.

On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 17:19:08 -0500, songbird <songbird@anthive.com>
wrote:

> we often keep the butter in a plastic container that
>will hold a pound at a time (it holds more than a pound
>but we don't worry about that). alas, once in a while
>the butter will start growing mold on it.
>
> i had cleaned the container recently enough that i
>thought i was safe when i refilled it last time but the
>cross-contamination gremlin did strike again and so it
>started going green.
>
> Mom is not very concerned about this sort of thing so
>she was going to just eat it. i don't like blue cheese
>flavored butter so i will end up trying to rescue the
>good butter and get rid of the rest.
>
> today, i decided to try something different and i
>rinsed the butter with hot water and drained off the
>water and anything runny and then put the butter in
>the fridge to harden back up again. i'm going to
>leave it in the fridge for now and see what happens
>and if i can still smell the blue cheese odor the
>next time i open it.

I'd throw it out and buy some new. If my car isn't working, I'll try
to fix it, but a bit of moldy butter?

On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 12:19:26 PM UTC-10, songbird wrote:
> we often keep the butter in a plastic container that
> will hold a pound at a time (it holds more than a pound
> but we don't worry about that). alas, once in a while
> the butter will start growing mold on it.
>
> i had cleaned the container recently enough that i
> thought i was safe when i refilled it last time but the
> cross-contamination gremlin did strike again and so it
> started going green.
>
> Mom is not very concerned about this sort of thing so
> she was going to just eat it. i don't like blue cheese
> flavored butter so i will end up trying to rescue the
> good butter and get rid of the rest.
>
> today, i decided to try something different and i
> rinsed the butter with hot water and drained off the
> water and anything runny and then put the butter in
> the fridge to harden back up again. i'm going to
> leave it in the fridge for now and see what happens
> and if i can still smell the blue cheese odor the
> next time i open it.
>
> in a side note, the use of butter today was to go
> on the top of some macaroni and tomato chunks which
> were freshly made by me because i had wanted some
> for the past week but didn't have the time or energy
> to cook it until this morning. fresh al-dente pasta
> and home grown tomato chunks. warmed up again after
> adding the tomato chunks to the drained pasta and
> then i warm up a portion in the microwave while the
> remaining pan is heating back up. this way it is
> hot faster and the pasta is not mushy. melt the
> butter on top. enjoy!
>
> we both had a bowl and the leftovers will be
> available for the next few days and if wanted can
> be adapted into other dishes too so it's very much
> an easy step to other meals - but most of them will
> be eaten as is (with butter melted on top).
>
>
> songbird

We kept some butter out for about a month. When I used it, there was a distinct blue cheese taste to it so I dumped the whole thing out. It wasn't much but the experience taught me that it probably wasn't a good idea to do this. OTOH, maybe the butter inoculated with blue cheese mold is a healthy part of a morning breakfast.
I've read articles that recommend that butter not be left out for more than 4 hours. Some articles say that you can leave butter on the counter for weeks. I recommend that you only read articles that suit your butter keeping needs.

https://www.southernliving.com/food/fats/butter/butterie

Ed P wrote:
....
> How long do you keep the butter? At what temperature?

until we use it up, normally that happens within a
week or two. at room temperature up in the cupboard.

> Never had butter turn on me in the fridge, or out for a week or so in a
> dish. Perhaps you should use a smaller container? Half pound at a time?

if i can keep the cross-contaminating gremlin from
getting gunk in it we usually do not have it going
off, but it isn't always the cross-contamination
that is the problem instead it is when she wants
the butter soft so she will nuke it until it melts
and then the salt also comes out and so the fat is
then left without enough salt so that it starts
growing along with now having runny moisture
evaporating inside the container.

it being a plastic container i don't think it gets
as clean as glass would. i still wash it a few times
and then soak it with a bleach solution so that it
kills off the mold or any other stuff in there but
then the next time she opens it and sticks a dirty
knife in there all bets are off as to what will be
happening next. :)

i did find out a few minutes ago that the rinse
with hot water worked well and i could not smell
any blue cheese odor at all when i opened the
container. so the rinse probably saved us from
throwing out more butter than i would have liked.

we warmed up some frozen veggies and of course
butter goes on those - a simple dinner for now
we'll probably snack later on something else...

songbird

S Viemeister wrote:
....
> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.

that would last two days or less for us.

Mom likes a lot of butter on things that i
won't but she also makes up for it in volume.
if the toast isn't dripping it's not enough
and a quarter inch thick on stuff... i don't
like that much...

songbird

On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 19:52:07 -0500, songbird <songbird@anthive.com>
wrote:

>S Viemeister wrote:
>...
>> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.
>
> that would last two days or less for us.
>
> Mom likes a lot of butter on things that i
>won't but she also makes up for it in volume.

She's a big woman?

dsi1 wrote:
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 12:19:26 PM UTC-10, songbird wrote:
>> we often keep the butter in a plastic container that
>> will hold a pound at a time (it holds more than a pound
>> but we don't worry about that). alas, once in a while
>> the butter will start growing mold on it.
>>
>> i had cleaned the container recently enough that i
>> thought i was safe when i refilled it last time but the
>> cross-contamination gremlin did strike again and so it
>> started going green.
>>
>> Mom is not very concerned about this sort of thing so
>> she was going to just eat it. i don't like blue cheese
>> flavored butter so i will end up trying to rescue the
>> good butter and get rid of the rest.
>>
>> today, i decided to try something different and i
>> rinsed the butter with hot water and drained off the
>> water and anything runny and then put the butter in
>> the fridge to harden back up again. i'm going to
>> leave it in the fridge for now and see what happens
>> and if i can still smell the blue cheese odor the
>> next time i open it.
>>
>> in a side note, the use of butter today was to go
>> on the top of some macaroni and tomato chunks which
>> were freshly made by me because i had wanted some
>> for the past week but didn't have the time or energy
>> to cook it until this morning. fresh al-dente pasta
>> and home grown tomato chunks. warmed up again after
>> adding the tomato chunks to the drained pasta and
>> then i warm up a portion in the microwave while the
>> remaining pan is heating back up. this way it is
>> hot faster and the pasta is not mushy. melt the
>> butter on top. enjoy!
>>
>> we both had a bowl and the leftovers will be
>> available for the next few days and if wanted can
>> be adapted into other dishes too so it's very much
>> an easy step to other meals - but most of them will
>> be eaten as is (with butter melted on top).
>>
>>
>> songbird
>
> We kept some butter out for about a month. When I used it, there was a distinct blue cheese taste to it so I dumped the whole thing out. It wasn't much but the experience taught me that it probably wasn't a good idea to do this. OTOH, maybe the butter inoculated with blue cheese mold is a healthy part of a morning breakfast.
> I've read articles that recommend that butter not be left out for more than 4 hours. Some articles say that you can leave butter on the counter for weeks. I recommend that you only read articles that suit your butter keeping needs.
>
> https://www.southernliving.com/food/fats/butter/butterie
>

Uncle, damn near nothing will kill asians, except high levels
of radiation.

On 2023-12-23, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> S Viemeister wrote:
> ...
>> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.
>
> that would last two days or less for us.

Then put butter out every two days or less. It's not as if it takes
hours to get out a stick of butter and slap it in a butter dish.

Splurge on a second dish so that you can wash each one after using
and still put out butter.

--
Cindy Hamilton

>
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 19:52:07 -0500, songbird <songbird@anthive.com>
> wrote:
>
> >S Viemeister wrote:
> >...
> >> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.
> >
> > that would last two days or less for us.

But you said your container holds a pound of butter,
which turns bad/ goes green/ gets mouldy * before it gets
used up*.

In the space of eight days? even though it's covered?

Have you considered washing the container clean before
putting in more butter?

Janet UK

On 12/22/2023 6:42 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 22/12/2023 22:46, Ed P wrote:
>> On 12/22/2023 5:19 PM, songbird wrote:
>>>    we often keep the butter in a plastic container that
>>> will hold a pound at a time (it holds more than a pound
>>> but we don't worry about that).  alas, once in a while
>>> the butter will start growing mold on it.
>>>
>>>    i had cleaned the container recently enough that i
>>> thought i was safe when i refilled it last time but the
>>> cross-contamination gremlin did strike again and so it
>>> started going green.
>>
>>>    songbird
>>
>> How long do you keep the butter?  At what temperature?
>>
>> Never had butter turn on me in the fridge, or out for a week or so in
>> a dish.  Perhaps you should use a smaller container?  Half pound at a
>> time?
>
> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.

Same here. I buy butter in quarter pound sticks. I've never had butter
go moldy, not even when left sitting out in a butter dish on the counter.

Jill

Janet wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 19:52:07 -0500, songbird <songbird@anthive.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >S Viemeister wrote:
>> >...
>> >> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.
>> >
>> > that would last two days or less for us.
>
> But you said your container holds a pound of butter,
> which turns bad/ goes green/ gets mouldy * before it gets
> used up*.
>
> In the space of eight days? even though it's covered?
>
> Have you considered washing the container clean before
> putting in more butter?

i've elsewhere written about this, but in this specific
case the previous used up butter from the container was
almost gone and i knew that Mom would want more so i just
added the next chunk without washing it. normally i would
wash it between every other pound of butter.

the edge of the container was what started going moldy
not the newly added butter. good thing it rinsed off with
hot water. for the moment the butter is remaining in the
refridgerator until it gets used up.

songbird

dsi1 wrote:
....
> We kept some butter out for about a month. When I used it, there was a distinct blue cheese taste to it so I dumped the whole thing out. It wasn't much but the experience taught me that it probably wasn't a good idea to do this. OTOH, maybe the butter inoculated with blue cheese mold is a healthy part of a morning breakfast.
> I've read articles that recommend that butter not be left out for more than 4 hours. Some articles say that you can leave butter on the counter for weeks. I recommend that you only read articles that suit your butter keeping needs.
>
> https://www.southernliving.com/food/fats/butter/butterie

the salted vs. unsalted parameter should be specified. ;)

in our case we only use salted butter.

songbird

Bruce wrote:
....
> I'd throw it out and buy some new. If my car isn't working, I'll try
> to fix it, but a bit of moldy butter?

half a pound or more? it's worth an attempt to
save if most of it is ok. the mold was mostly on
the sides of the container and it rinsed off with
the hot water. it probably cost all of $0.02 and
a few moments of time at the most to make the
attempt. short term success is promising.

songbird

Bruce wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 19:52:07 -0500, songbird <songbird@anthive.com>
> wrote:
>
>>S Viemeister wrote:
>>...
>>> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.
>>
>> that would last two days or less for us.
>>
>> Mom likes a lot of butter on things that i
>>won't but she also makes up for it in volume.
>
> She's a big woman?

shorter than me, slightly rounder in places.
not Big Niece category by far.

songbird

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2023-12-23, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>> S Viemeister wrote:
>> ...
>>> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.
>>
>> that would last two days or less for us.
>
> Then put butter out every two days or less. It's not as if it takes
> hours to get out a stick of butter and slap it in a butter dish.

we don't normally have quarter pound sticks. those are
a waste of time.

> Splurge on a second dish so that you can wash each one after using
> and still put out butter.

short on space in general, we don't often just buy
containers or gadgets because if we do that means
something else will likely have to be removed.

retraining Mom to not nuke the butter and not
cross-contaminating it would be the best result but
to be realistic here i'll just make sure to wash the
butter container each time before refilling it.

however, in general, so far i have learned from the
experience and experiment and that was the goal. :)

songbird

In article <l29j5k-vq4.ln1@anthive.com>,
songbird@anthive.com says...
>
> Janet wrote:
> >> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 19:52:07 -0500, songbird <songbird@anthive.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >S Viemeister wrote:
> >> >...
> >> >> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.
> >> >
> >> > that would last two days or less for us.
> >
> > But you said your container holds a pound of butter,
> > which turns bad/ goes green/ gets mouldy * before it gets
> > used up*.
> >
> > In the space of eight days? even though it's covered?
> >
> > Have you considered washing the container clean before
> > putting in more butter?
>
> i've elsewhere written about this, but in this specific
> case the previous used up butter from the container was
> almost gone and i knew that Mom would want more so i just
> added the next chunk without washing it.

Would she urgently need butter in the two minutes it
takes to wash the container?

normally i would
> wash it between every other pound of butter.

Yuk! No wonder you get mould and "off taste" problems.

That's a failure of basic food hygeine. Wash your empty
butter dish clean in hot soapy water, and rinse, every
single time before refilling.

ANY food container that has held ANY food and still
contains remnants, needs to be thoroughly washed clean
before re-use as a food container. Otherwise risk
contaminating the clean new material.

Janet UK

On 12/23/2023 10:13 AM, songbird wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On 2023-12-23, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
>>> S Viemeister wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.
>>>
>>> that would last two days or less for us.
>>
>> Then put butter out every two days or less. It's not as if it takes
>> hours to get out a stick of butter and slap it in a butter dish.
>
> we don't normally have quarter pound sticks. those are
> a waste of time.
>
Wow. You're starting to sound like a former poster. No suggestion is a
good one.

Why would quarter pound sticks be a waste of time? Keep three of them
in the fridge and one on the counter in the butter dish. Beats the hell
out of having moldy butter or running butter under hot water (how the
heck does that work?!) to get mold off it. It doesn't take that long
for a stick of butter to come up to room temperature and be soft.

If you actually use as much butter as I read elsewhere in this thread
I'm not sure why mold is an issue in the first place. Unless the
temperature in your house is overly warm. Or the plastic butter
container (is it a tub?) has not been washed, as others mentioned.

> retraining Mom to not nuke the butter and not
> cross-contaminating it would be the best result but
> to be realistic here i'll just make sure to wash the
> butter container each time before refilling it.
>
Good luck "retraining" your mother. ;)

Jill

On 12/23/2023 11:07 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article <l29j5k-vq4.ln1@anthive.com>,
> songbird@anthive.com says...
>>
>> normally i would
>> wash it between every other pound of butter.
>
> Yuk! No wonder you get mould and "off taste" problems.
>
> That's a failure of basic food hygeine. Wash your empty
> butter dish clean in hot soapy water, and rinse, every
> single time before refilling.
>
> ANY food container that has held ANY food and still
> contains remnants, needs to be thoroughly washed clean
> before re-use as a food container. Otherwise risk
> contaminating the clean new material.
>
> Janet UK

+1

I'd also recommend he stop using a plastic container if his mother keeps
putting it in the microwave.

Jill

In article <DGDhN.101088$83n7.8771@fx18.iad>,
j_mcquown@comcast.net says...

songbird wrote

> > retraining Mom to not nuke the butter and not
> > cross-contaminating it would be the best result but
> > to be realistic here i'll just make sure to wash the
> > butter container each time before refilling it.
> >
> Good luck "retraining" your mother. ;)

Well, yes.

On a more serious note, my impression of Songbird is a
middle aged chap living with his declining elderly mother
who needs some support now.

He's fussing about the danger of windfall fruit; but his
own kitchen hygeine standard poses far more of a risk to
his mother.

IOW it's really important to brush up on basic kitchen
and food hygeine skills, to avoid either of him or Mum
contaminating food to the potential detriment of her
health.

Older peoples' immune systems are weaker and less able to
fend off any infection or inflammation of the digestive
system.

Janet UK

On 12/23/2023 11:31 AM, Janet wrote:
> In article <DGDhN.101088$83n7.8771@fx18.iad>,
> j_mcquown@comcast.net says...
>
>
> songbird wrote
>
>>> retraining Mom to not nuke the butter and not
>>> cross-contaminating it would be the best result but
>>> to be realistic here i'll just make sure to wash the
>>> butter container each time before refilling it.
>>>
>> Good luck "retraining" your mother. ;)
>
> Well, yes.
>
> On a more serious note, my impression of Songbird is a
> middle aged chap living with his declining elderly mother
> who needs some support now.
>
> He's fussing about the danger of windfall fruit; but his
> own kitchen hygeine standard poses far more of a risk to
> his mother.
>
> IOW it's really important to brush up on basic kitchen
> and food hygeine skills, to avoid either of him or Mum
> contaminating food to the potential detriment of her
> health.
>
> Older peoples' immune systems are weaker and less able to
> fend off any infection or inflammation of the digestive
> system.
>
>
> Janet UK
>
>
Very true. As you know, I cooked for/took care of my elderly mother.
Yes, wash the dish.

I still don't see the problem with buying butter in quarter pound
sticks. It's still a pound of butter. I'd also change to a glass
butter dish. Can't stop her from microwaving it if she wants melted
butter but the glass container would be better. Oh, and I don't know if
he mentioned it but if she uses a brush to slather toast "corner to
corner" with soft/melted butter (there was some mention of that), wash
the brush, too!

Jill

On 12/23/2023 9:56 AM, songbird wrote:
> Janet wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 19:52:07 -0500, songbird <songbird@anthive.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> S Viemeister wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>> We only put out a quarter pound at a time.
>>>>
>>>> that would last two days or less for us.
>>
>> But you said your container holds a pound of butter,
>> which turns bad/ goes green/ gets mouldy * before it gets
>> used up*.
>>
>> In the space of eight days? even though it's covered?
>>
>> Have you considered washing the container clean before
>> putting in more butter?
>
> i've elsewhere written about this, but in this specific
> case the previous used up butter from the container was
> almost gone and i knew that Mom would want more so i just
> added the next chunk without washing it. normally i would
> wash it between every other pound of butter.
>
> the edge of the container was what started going moldy
> not the newly added butter. good thing it rinsed off with
> hot water. for the moment the butter is remaining in the
> refridgerator until it gets used up.
>
>
> songbird

Wonder if you have some spores in the air, sort of like sourdough does.