|
| Former Pennsylvania Senator and Republican presidential
| candidate Rick Santorum claimed on Tuesday that Ohio's
| decision to legalize marijuana and enshrine abortion in the
| state constitution was proof that "pure democracies are not
| the way to run a country."
| ...
<https://www.mediaite.com/tv/ohio-abortion-marijuana-vote-results-proof-pure-democracies-are-not-the-way-to-run-a-country-says-former-sen-rick-santorum/>

--bks

bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) wrote in
news:uigme9$p1s$1@panix3.panix.com:

> |
> | Former Pennsylvania Senator and Republican presidential
> | candidate Rick Santorum claimed on Tuesday that Ohio's
> | decision to legalize marijuana and enshrine abortion in the
> | state constitution was proof that "pure democracies are not
> | the way to run a country."
> | ...
> <https://www.mediaite.com/tv/ohio-abortion-marijuana-vote-results-proof
> -pure-democracies-are-not-the-way-to-run-a-country-says-former-sen-rick
> -santorum/>
>
> --bks
>

That is the crux of the repeal-the-17th-Amendment
movement. "We are too stupid to elect our Senators,
our state reps are wiser than us". Fox News addicts
here like Hartung have been parroting that line for
years.

On 11/8/2023 6:26 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) wrote in
> news:uigme9$p1s$1@panix3.panix.com:
>
>> |
>> | Former Pennsylvania Senator and Republican presidential
>> | candidate Rick Santorum claimed on Tuesday that Ohio's
>> | decision to legalize marijuana and enshrine abortion in the
>> | state constitution was proof that "pure democracies are not
>> | the way to run a country."
>> | ...
>> <https://www.mediaite.com/tv/ohio-abortion-marijuana-vote-results-proof
>> -pure-democracies-are-not-the-way-to-run-a-country-says-former-sen-rick
>> -santorum/>
>>
>> --bks
>>
>
>
> That is the crux of the repeal-the-17th-Amendment
> movement. "We are too stupid to elect our Senators,
> our state reps are wiser than us". Fox News addicts
> here like Hartung have been parroting that line for
> years.

Start with the fact that "states" do not have any "right" to representation in
the federal government. The original constitutional plan for the Senate was
absurd. Senators under the original plan didn't represent their states — they
represented the majority *political party* in the state legislatures. That is
absurd and obscene. It was a naked invitation to corruption, and that's what
occurred. It was a bad and wrong design, all the way around.

nickname unavailable <"because_\\shitbag\\_was_taken"@gmail.com> wrote
in news:RTY2N.1261$Wzw6.540@fx13.iad:

> On 11/8/2023 6:26 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) wrote in
>> news:uigme9$p1s$1@panix3.panix.com:
>>
>>> |
>>> | Former Pennsylvania Senator and Republican presidential
>>> | candidate Rick Santorum claimed on Tuesday that Ohio's
>>> | decision to legalize marijuana and enshrine abortion in the
>>> | state constitution was proof that "pure democracies are not
>>> | the way to run a country."
>>> | ...
>>> <https://www.mediaite.com/tv/ohio-abortion-marijuana-vote-results-pro
>>> of
>>> -pure-democracies-are-not-the-way-to-run-a-country-says-former-sen-ri
>>> ck -santorum/>
>>>
>>> --bks
>>>
>>
>>
>> That is the crux of the repeal-the-17th-Amendment
>> movement. "We are too stupid to elect our Senators,
>> our state reps are wiser than us". Fox News addicts
>> here like Hartung have been parroting that line for
>> years.
>
> Start with the fact that "states" do not have any "right" to
> representation in the federal government. The original constitutional
> plan for the Senate was absurd. Senators under the original plan
> didn't represent their states — they represented the majority
> *political party* in the state legislatures.

Aka the majority of lobbyists in
the state legislature.......

Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
> |
> | Former Pennsylvania Senator and Republican presidential
> | candidate Rick Santorum claimed on Tuesday that Ohio's
> | decision to legalize marijuana and enshrine abortion in the
> | state constitution was proof that "pure democracies are not
> | the way to run a country."
> | ...
> <https://www.mediaite.com/tv/ohio-abortion-marijuana-vote-results-proof-pure-democracies-are-not-the-way-to-run-a-country-says-former-sen-rick-santorum/>

So. What's their alternative then?

On 11/8/2023 11:10 AM, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
> |
> | Former Pennsylvania Senator and Republican presidential
> | candidate Rick Santorum claimed on Tuesday that Ohio's
> | decision to legalize marijuana and enshrine abortion in the
> | state constitution was proof that "pure democracies are not
> | the way to run a country."

Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by "pure"
democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even define — and
*states* having some elements of direct democracy, e.g. voter initiatives, is
100% appropriate. No one is proposing a national plebiscite or referendum under
the current Constitution. There *should*, of course, be a national direct vote
for president. The president is the "chief magistrate" of *the people* (*not* of
the "states"), and as such should be elected by a direct popular vote. *Nothing*
in the founders vision of the U.S. being a "federation" of states contradicts that.

Jay Santos wrote:
> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
> define — and *states* having some elements of direct

Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy. They are placed
on the ballot by the people not the legislature and then passed or
rejected by the people without any participation of the
legislature. Initiatives were progressive reforms in various
states around 1900.

They were a counter to legislative incompetence and corruption.
Ohio enacted them due to the corrupt legislature which republicans
have recreated as the new corrupt Ohio legislature.

--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.1 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> Jay Santos wrote:
>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>
> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.

Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
amendment. That's what the legislature/governor is for. For example,
Ohio makes lotteries, casino gambling, bingo part of its constitution.
Now they are talking about adding a minimum wage. WTF??? A constitution
is not the place to enact policy initiatives that benefit a specific
industry or pick specific winners/losers.

> They are placed on the
> ballot by the people not the legislature and then passed or rejected by
> the people without any participation of the legislature. Initiatives
> were progressive reforms in various states around 1900.

They don't call them dumb masses without reason. Oddly enough, the Ohio
democratic party, which fought tooth and nail to keep the vote required
to amend the OH constitution at 50%+1, requires 60% to amend its
constitution/by-laws. Go figger.

> They were a counter to legislative incompetence and corruption.

Then why bother even having a legislature?

> Ohio
> enacted them due to the corrupt legislature which republicans have
> recreated as the new corrupt Ohio legislature.
>

Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:uj2f2t$1o45h$1@dont-email.me:

> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
>>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
>>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>
>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>
> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
> amendment. That's what the legislature/governor is for.

The people should not have a say
in their government because the easily
bribed state reps know what is REALLY
best for them?

On 11/15/2023 9:13 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:uj2f2t$1o45h$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
>>>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
>>>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>>
>>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>>
>> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>> amendment. That's what the legislature/governor is for.
>
>
> The people should not have a say
> in their government because the easily
> bribed state reps know what is REALLY
> best for them?

They have a say. That's what elections are for. Don't like your rep,
elect a new one. Else, why even bother having a house/sen/gov?

Yak wrote:
> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run
>>> by "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt)
>>> can't even define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>
>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>
> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
> amendment.

As usual, if you don't like a law the legislature should ignore
the law instead obeying the state Constitution.

--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.1 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

Yak wrote:
> On 11/15/2023 9:13 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:uj2f2t$1o45h$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being
>>>>> run by
>>>>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't
>>>>> even
>>>>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>>>
>>>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>>>
>>> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>>> amendment.  That's what the legislature/governor is for.
>>
>>
>>      The people should not have a say
>> in their government because the easily
>> bribed state reps know what is REALLY
>> best for them?
>
> They have a say. That's what elections are for. Don't like your
> rep, elect a new one. Else, why even bother having a house/sen/gov?

Because the state Constitution says so. If you don't like it,
amend it.

--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.1 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

On 11/15/2023 11:35 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> Yak wrote:
>> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
>>>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
>>>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>>
>>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>>
>> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>> amendment.
>
> As usual, if you don't like a law the legislature should ignore the law
> instead obeying the state Constitution.

Why am I not the least bit surprised that the point is sailing directly
over your head?

Yak wrote:
> On 11/15/2023 11:35 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> Yak wrote:
>>> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being
>>>>> run by "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate
>>>>> cunt) can't even define — and *states* having some elements
>>>>> of direct
>>>>
>>>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>>>
>>> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>>> amendment.
>>
>> As usual, if you don't like a law the legislature should ignore
>> the law instead obeying the state Constitution.
>
> Why am I not the least bit surprised that the point is sailing
> directly over your head?
>

Next time try less stupid.

--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.1 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

On 11/15/2023 12:33 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> Yak wrote:
>> On 11/15/2023 11:35 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>> Yak wrote:
>>>> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>>>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
>>>>>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
>>>>>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>>>>
>>>>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>>>>
>>>> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>>>> amendment.
>>>
>>> As usual, if you don't like a law the legislature should ignore the
>>> law instead obeying the state Constitution.
>>
>> Why am I not the least bit surprised that the point is sailing
>> directly over your head?
>>
>
> Next time try less stupid.

Says the guy whose head the point sailed over....LOLOL!!!!

On 11/15/2023 4:54 AM, Gak, fucked up the ass hundreds of times by priests — and
*admits* it — lied:

> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by "pure"
>>> democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even define — and
>>> *states* having some elements of direct
>>
>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>
> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional amendment.

Wrong. There's no reason for them not to be.

Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:uj2kpr$1p2l8$2@dont-email.me:

> On 11/15/2023 9:13 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:uj2f2t$1o45h$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
>>>>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
>>>>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>>>
>>>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>>>
>>> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>>> amendment. That's what the legislature/governor is for.
>>
>>
>> The people should not have a say
>> in their government because the easily
>> bribed state reps know what is REALLY
>> best for them?
>
> They have a say.

That is what ballot referendums are for.

> That's what elections are for. Don't like your rep,
> elect a new one. Else, why even bother having a house/sen/gov?

Who do you think better prepresents
the public on an issue - the state reps
or the people themselves?

On 11/15/2023 10:35 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:uj2kpr$1p2l8$2@dont-email.me:
>
>> That's what elections are for. Don't like your rep,
>> elect a new one. Else, why even bother having a house/sen/gov?
>
> Who do you think better prepresents
> the public on an issue - the state reps
> or the people themselves?

I lived in California for 7 years and the issues presented to the voters
were confusing, complicated and sometimes ridiculous. Even though I
agree with the outcome of the Ohio vote, I'm with Yak on this one.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 07:54:53 -0500, Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote:

>Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>amendment. That's what the legislature/governor is for. For example,
>Ohio makes lotteries, casino gambling, bingo part of its constitution.
>Now they are talking about adding a minimum wage. WTF??? A constitution
>is not the place to enact policy initiatives that benefit a specific
>industry or pick specific winners/losers.

That's your opinion.

Georgia also tends to legislate directly to its Constitution. When I still lived there an
amendment passed freezing property tax rates for widows remaining in their home.

Swill
--
"I don't want everybody to vote. As a matter of fact, our leverage in
the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
- Paul Weyrich, co founder of Heritage Foundation and Moral Majority

Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:32:27 -0500, Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote:

>On 11/15/2023 9:13 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:uj2f2t$1o45h$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
>>>>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
>>>>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>>>
>>>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>>>
>>> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>>> amendment. That's what the legislature/governor is for.
>>
>>
>> The people should not have a say
>> in their government because the easily
>> bribed state reps know what is REALLY
>> best for them?
>
>They have a say. That's what elections are for. Don't like your rep,
>elect a new one. Else, why even bother having a house/sen/gov?

Then why are you complaining about how Ohioans choose to govern themselves?

Swill
--
"I don't want everybody to vote. As a matter of fact, our leverage in
the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
- Paul Weyrich, co founder of Heritage Foundation and Moral Majority

Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 10:44:32 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On 11/15/2023 10:35 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:uj2kpr$1p2l8$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> That's what elections are for. Don't like your rep,
>>> elect a new one. Else, why even bother having a house/sen/gov?
>>
>> Who do you think better prepresents
>> the public on an issue - the state reps
>> or the people themselves?
>
>I lived in California for 7 years and the issues presented to the voters
>were confusing, complicated and sometimes ridiculous. Even though I
>agree with the outcome of the Ohio vote, I'm with Yak on this one.

So . . . you don't believe states should be able to determine what goes into their
Constitutions or how to amend them?

Yak wrote:
"Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
amendment. That's what the legislature/governor is for. For example,
Ohio makes lotteries, casino gambling, bingo part of its constitution.
Now they are talking about adding a minimum wage. WTF??? A constitution
is not the place to enact policy initiatives that benefit a specific
industry or pick specific winners/losers."

Swill
--
"I don't want everybody to vote. As a matter of fact, our leverage in
the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
- Paul Weyrich, co founder of Heritage Foundation and Moral Majority

Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 07:54:53 -0500, Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote:

>They don't call them dumb masses without reason. Oddly enough, the Ohio
>democratic party, which fought tooth and nail to keep the vote required
>to amend the OH constitution at 50%+1, requires 60% to amend its
>constitution/by-laws. Go figger.

Isn't that their business?

Swill
--
"I don't want everybody to vote. As a matter of fact, our leverage in
the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
- Paul Weyrich, co founder of Heritage Foundation and Moral Majority

Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 12:45:43 -0500, Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote:

>On 11/15/2023 12:33 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> Yak wrote:
>>> On 11/15/2023 11:35 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>> Yak wrote:
>>>>> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>>>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>>>>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
>>>>>>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
>>>>>>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>>>>> amendment.
>>>>
>>>> As usual, if you don't like a law the legislature should ignore the
>>>> law instead obeying the state Constitution.
>>>
>>> Why am I not the least bit surprised that the point is sailing
>>> directly over your head?
>>>
>>
>> Next time try less stupid.
>
>Says the guy whose head the point sailed over....LOLOL!!!!

Your point was stupid. Who are you to tell Ohio how it should govern itself? How it
should pass or execute it's laws?

Swill
--
"I don't want everybody to vote. As a matter of fact, our leverage in
the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
- Paul Weyrich, co founder of Heritage Foundation and Moral Majority

Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On 11/15/2023 2:20 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:32:27 -0500, Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/15/2023 9:13 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>> Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:uj2f2t$1o45h$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 11/15/2023 3:30 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>>> Jay Santos wrote:
>>>>>> Santorum is an illiterate cunt. The "country" is not being run by
>>>>>> "pure" democracy — something Santorum (illiterate cunt) can't even
>>>>>> define — and *states* having some elements of direct
>>>>>
>>>>> Initiatives like Ohio Issue 1 are pure democracy.
>>>>
>>>> Initiatives like Issue 1 should not be part of a constitutional
>>>> amendment. That's what the legislature/governor is for.
>>>
>>>
>>> The people should not have a say
>>> in their government because the easily
>>> bribed state reps know what is REALLY
>>> best for them?
>>
>> They have a say. That's what elections are for. Don't like your rep,
>> elect a new one. Else, why even bother having a house/sen/gov?
>
> Then why are you complaining about how Ohioans choose to govern themselves?

They can govern themselves however they want; I'm simply opining that
their approach to using the constitution to legislate, instead of the
legislature, is misplaced.

On 11/15/2023 2:22 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 07:54:53 -0500, Yak <Yak@inbox.com> wrote:
>
>> They don't call them dumb masses without reason. Oddly enough, the Ohio
>> democratic party, which fought tooth and nail to keep the vote required
>> to amend the OH constitution at 50%+1, requires 60% to amend its
>> constitution/by-laws. Go figger.
>
> Isn't that their business?

Sure. Hypocrisy is definitely their business.