This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149

"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com>
Wrote in message:r
> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149

If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve
information other than liberal bullshit. :-)
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On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote:
> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
> Wrote in message:r
> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve
> information other than liberal bullshit. :-)
> --
===

I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.

On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:

> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:
>
> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149

Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this
opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)

Walter is a professor of political science at the University of
California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/
publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.

With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising
that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.

I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.

If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with
pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join
in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-)

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com>
Wrote in message:r
> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote:> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> > Wrote in message:r> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve > information other than liberal bullshit. :-) > -- ===I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.

Didn't have to read too far to see how it was going to go. I'm
sure you picked up on it as well.
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On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:
> >
> > https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this
> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)
>
> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of
> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/
> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.
>
> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising
> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.
>
> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.
>
> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with
> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join
> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-)
>

==
Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help sell their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution. It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.

On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 09:47:18 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
>> Wrote in message:r
>> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve
>> information other than liberal bullshit. :-)
>> --
>===
>
>I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.

As a leftist, you'd find anything against the right interesting and
thought provoking. I thought this was interesting and thought
provoking:

https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/why-do-democrats-support-lawlessness/

waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:
>>>
>>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this
>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)
>>
>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of
>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/
>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.
>>
>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising
>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.
>>
>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.
>>
>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with
>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join
>> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-)
>>
>
> ==
> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help sell
> their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make
> their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural
> shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people
> are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into
> attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution.
> It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural
> heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.
>

I think a bigger driver of civil war is the very left and their policies.
We already have a war going in a lot of very left cities. The Rightwing
extremists are a lot few number than the left wing extremists. And we
already had some uncivil wars via the Weathermen, the Black Panthers,
Obama’s Buddy in Chicago, forget his name. When you try to take away the
livelihood of the middle class, via regulations and taxes, then you will
see possibly a civil war.

On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 12:16:14 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:
>> >
>> > https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this
>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)
>>
>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of
>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/
>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.
>>
>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising
>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.
>>
>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.
>>
>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with
>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join
>> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-)
>>
>
>===
>
>Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help sell their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution. It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.

I have no doubt this scenario is possible but I would put it after the
financial system fails and the public figures out haw bad the
government has been lying to them about the stability of an economy
that owes 127% of its GDP and no hope of the industrial dominance that
pulled us out of a similar situation after WWII.
At that point you would have the rednecks, the minorities, the retired
and the yuppies united in their outrage against the rich.

Bill <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
> waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote: >> >>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article: >>> >>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this >> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book) >> >> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of >> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/ >> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars. >> >> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising >> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War. >> >> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt. >> >> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with >> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join >> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-) >> > > ==> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion
pieces to help sell> their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make> their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural> shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people> are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into> attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution. > It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural> heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion. > I think a bigger driver of civil war is the very left and their policies. We already have a war going in a lot of very left cities. The Rightwingextremists are a lot few number than the left wing extremists. And wealready had some uncivil wars via the Weathermen, the Black Panthers,Obama?s Buddy in Chicago, forget his name. When you try to take away thelivelihood of the middle class, via regulations and taxes, then you willsee possibly a civil war.

The left is painting their behavior on the right. It's a prominent
part of their playbook. The left center has stepped further out
on the plank that will eventually scuttle them.
--
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On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 5:52:10 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 09:47:18 -0800 (PST),
> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote:
> >> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
> >> Wrote in message:r
> >> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
> >> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve
> >> information other than liberal bullshit. :-)
> >> --
> >===
> >
> >I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.
> As a leftist, you'd find anything against the right interesting and
> thought provoking. I thought this was interesting and thought
> provoking:
>
> https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/why-do-democrats-support-lawlessness/

==
Actually I'm a centrist and don't condone violent protest for any reason or cause. What's happened is that the right has moved so far in that direction, that moderate republicans are now incorrectly viewed as left wingers. And the cult of Trumpism has become so deeply rooted that anyone else is viewed as a radical. Sad.

"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com>
Wrote in message:r
> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 5:52:10 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:> On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 09:47:18 -0800 (PST), > "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote: > >> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> > >> Wrote in message:r > >> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149 > >> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve > >> information other than liberal bullshit. :-) > >> -- > >=== > > > >I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.> As a leftist, you'd find anything against the right interesting and > thought provoking. I thought this was interesting and thought > provoking: > > https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/why-do-democrats-support-lawlessness/===Actually I'm a centrist and don't condone violent protest for any reason or cause. What's happened is that the right has moved so far in that direction, that moderate republicans are now incorrectly viewed as left wingers. And the c
ult of Trumpism has become so deeply rooted that anyone else is viewed as a radical. Sad.

Oh boy! There's nothing centrist about you anymore Wayne. You've
moved far left.
--
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waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 5:52:10 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 09:47:18 -0800 (PST),
>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
>>>> Wrote in message:r
>>>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful
>>>>> article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>>>>>
>>>> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve
>>>> information other than liberal bullshit. :-)
>>>> --
>>> ===
>>>
>>> I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.
>> As a leftist, you'd find anything against the right interesting and
>> thought provoking. I thought this was interesting and thought
>> provoking:
>>
>> https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/why-do-democrats-support-lawlessness/
>
> ==
> Actually I'm a centrist and don't condone violent protest for any reason
> or cause. What's happened is that the right has moved so far in that
> direction, that moderate republicans are now incorrectly viewed as left
> wingers. And the cult of Trumpism has become so deeply rooted that
> anyone else is viewed as a radical. Sad.
>

Nothing centrist about your comments.

On 1/9/2022 3:16 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:
>>>
>>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this
>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)
>>
>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of
>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/
>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.
>>
>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising
>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.
>>
>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.
>>
>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with
>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join
>> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-)
>>
>
> ===
>
> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help sell their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution. It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.

Mrs.E. (a Trumpster) and I had a recent debate about the status of this
country.

My position is that although politically inspired
dissension has existed for many decades, the current situation, full of
animosity and hatred started when Donald Trump walked down the golden
escalator and announced his candidacy for POTUS. Since then, throughout
his term in office and to this day the division (which Walter claims
may lead to a Civil War) continues.

Before Trump, the country had elected Republicans and Democrats, often
with much debate and alliances but Trump's eventual election started
a whole new level of division that has pretty much erased any true
moderate or "centralist" beliefs. People today are either left or
right. There is no other option. If you don't hate Trump, you are
a Trumpster ... and a racist to boot.

Mrs. E.'s position is that the people elected him.

I think if the Republicans had nominated someone else who shared the
same policy views as Trump but was better equipped temperment-wise
to execute those policies, we would not have the ultra political
division that exists today.

I think Trump did many things that were in the best interests of the
USA. I can't say the same for the current crop of Democrats.

So, it's difficult to claim to be a "centralist" today.

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On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 19:02:13 -0800 (PST),
"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 5:52:10 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 09:47:18 -0800 (PST),
>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>> >> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
>> >> Wrote in message:r
>> >> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>> >> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve
>> >> information other than liberal bullshit. :-)
>> >> --
>> >===
>> >
>> >I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.
>> As a leftist, you'd find anything against the right interesting and
>> thought provoking. I thought this was interesting and thought
>> provoking:
>>
>> https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/why-do-democrats-support-lawlessness/
>
>===
>
>Actually I'm a centrist and don't condone violent protest for any reason or cause. What's happened is that the right has moved so far in that direction, that moderate republicans are now incorrectly viewed as left wingers. And the cult of Trumpism has become so deeply rooted that anyone else is viewed as a radical. Sad.

The article had nothing to do with violent protest.

It's obvious that you're spending your time glued to CNN.

Bill <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
> waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 5:52:10 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 09:47:18 -0800 (PST), >> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote: >>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> >>>> Wrote in message:r >>>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful>>>>> article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149>>>>> >>>> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve >>>> information other than liberal bullshit. :-) >>>> -- >>> === >>> >>> I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.>> As a leftist, you'd find anything against the right interesting and >> thought provoking. I thought this was interesting and thought >> provoking: >> >> https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/why-do-democrats-support-lawlessness/> > ==> Actually I'm a centrist and don't condone violent protest for any reason> or cause. What's happened is that the right has moved so far in tha
t> direction, that moderate republicans are now incorrectly viewed as left> wingers. And the cult of Trumpism has become so deeply rooted that> anyone else is viewed as a radical. Sad. > Nothing centrist about your comments.

Many radical left wingers consider themselves centrists. That goes
to prove that they have lost touch with reality. If these guys
don't put aside their hatred of former president Trump, the will
never unify and identify themselves as a party that cares about
America first their fate will be sealed. Buh bye hateful democrat
party.
--
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On 1/10/22 6:53 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>On 1/9/2022 3:16 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this
>>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)
>>>
>>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of
>>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/
>>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.
>>>
>>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising
>>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.
>>>
>>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.
>>>
>>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with
>>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join
>>> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-)
>>>
>>
>> ===
>>
>> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help sell their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution. It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.
>
>Mrs.E. (a Trumpster) and I had a recent debate about the status of this
>country.
>
>My position is that although politically inspired
>dissension has existed for many decades, the current situation, full of
>animosity and hatred started when Donald Trump walked down the golden
>escalator and announced his candidacy for POTUS. Since then, throughout
>his term in office and to this day the division (which Walter claims
>may lead to a Civil War) continues.
>
>Before Trump, the country had elected Republicans and Democrats, often
>with much debate and alliances but Trump's eventual election started
>a whole new level of division that has pretty much erased any true
>moderate or "centralist" beliefs. People today are either left or
>right. There is no other option. If you don't hate Trump, you are
>a Trumpster ... and a racist to boot.
>
>Mrs. E.'s position is that the people elected him.
>
>I think if the Republicans had nominated someone else who shared the
>same policy views as Trump but was better equipped temperment-wise
>to execute those policies, we would not have the ultra political
>division that exists today.
>
>I think Trump did many things that were in the best interests of the
>USA. I can't say the same for the current crop of Democrats.
>
>So, it's difficult to claim to be a "centralist" today.
>
What is really sad is that this division is based on a fellas personality.
The country is being made to suffer because the hate has driven the party
in power to undo all of the good things the prior administration has done
for the country. Anyone who believes the current administration is doing
good by America is out of his mind. I suppose it is possible for a
centralist to be out of his mind. :-)

--
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On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 10:30:13 PM UTC-5, justan wrote:
> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
> Wrote in message:r
> > On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 5:52:10 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:> On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 09:47:18 -0800 (PST), > "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote: > >> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com> > >> Wrote in message:r > >> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149 > >> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve > >> information other than liberal bullshit. :-) > >> -- > >=== > > > >I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.> As a leftist, you'd find anything against the right interesting and > thought provoking. I thought this was interesting and thought > provoking: > > https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/why-do-democrats-support-lawlessness/===Actually I'm a centrist and don't condone violent protest for any reason or cause. What's happened is that the right has moved so far in that direction, that moderate republicans are now incorrectly viewed as left wingers. And the cult of Trumpism has become so deeply rooted that anyone else is viewed as a radical. Sad.
>
> Oh boy! There's nothing centrist about you anymore Wayne. You've
> moved far left.

==
I rest my case.

On Sun, 09 Jan 2022 17:52:07 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 9 Jan 2022 09:47:18 -0800 (PST),
>"waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com" <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-5, justan wrote:
>>> "waynebatr...@hotmail.com" <wayne.b...@gmail.com>
>>> Wrote in message:r
>>> > This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>>> If you remove your tin hat you might be able to recieve
>>> information other than liberal bullshit. :-)
>>> --
>>===
>>
>>I found it interesting and thought provoking. Your mileage may vary.
>
>As a leftist, you'd find anything against the right interesting and
>thought provoking. I thought this was interesting and thought
>provoking:
>
>https://www.raptureforums.com/politics-culture-wars/why-do-democrats-support-lawlessness/

He didn't mention the decriminalization of "low level crime" like
traffic offenses, vehicle registration and shoplifting. (too many
black people were being arrested) Now there are roving bands of
organized shoplifters in those blue states operating with impunity.
With the ending of vehicle stops for registration issues it also makes
you wonder how many people are letting their insurance lapse.

Why would you bother if you have no appreciable assets to seize and
there is no criminal penalty or even a chance to get caught?

It makes me happy to live in a state where the cops can still arrest
people robbing me. Otherwise I would just have to shoot them.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 06:53:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:

>On 1/9/2022 3:16 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this
>>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)
>>>
>>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of
>>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/
>>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.
>>>
>>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising
>>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.
>>>
>>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.
>>>
>>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with
>>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join
>>> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-)
>>>
>>
>> ===
>>
>> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help sell their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution. It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.
>
>Mrs.E. (a Trumpster) and I had a recent debate about the status of this
>country.
>
>My position is that although politically inspired
>dissension has existed for many decades, the current situation, full of
>animosity and hatred started when Donald Trump walked down the golden
>escalator and announced his candidacy for POTUS. Since then, throughout
>his term in office and to this day the division (which Walter claims
>may lead to a Civil War) continues.
>
>Before Trump, the country had elected Republicans and Democrats, often
>with much debate and alliances but Trump's eventual election started
>a whole new level of division that has pretty much erased any true
>moderate or "centralist" beliefs. People today are either left or
>right. There is no other option. If you don't hate Trump, you are
>a Trumpster ... and a racist to boot.
>
>Mrs. E.'s position is that the people elected him.
>
>I think if the Republicans had nominated someone else who shared the
>same policy views as Trump but was better equipped temperment-wise
>to execute those policies, we would not have the ultra political
>division that exists today.
>
>I think Trump did many things that were in the best interests of the
>USA. I can't say the same for the current crop of Democrats.
>
>So, it's difficult to claim to be a "centralist" today.

The PBS show Frontline seemed to put the real divide at the election
of Obama but I think it goes back to Bush v Gore. There are still
plenty of Democrats who think Bush wasn't the legitimate president.

gfretwell@aol.com Wrote in message:r
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 06:53:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>wrote:>On 1/9/2022 3:16 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:>> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:>>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:>>>>>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:>>>>>>>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149>>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this>>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)>>>>>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of>>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/>>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.>>>>>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising>>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.>>>>>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.>>>>>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with>>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join>>> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some boo
ks. :-)>>>>> >> ===>> >> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help sell their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution. It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.>>Mrs.E. (a Trumpster) and I had a recent debate about the status of this >country.>>My position is that although politically inspired>dissension has existed for many decades, the current situation, full of>animosity and hatred started when Donald Trump walked down the golden>escalator and announced his candidacy for POTUS. Since then, throughout >his term in office and to this day the division (which Walter claims>may lead to a Civil War) continues.>>Before Trump, the country had elected Republicans and Democrats, often>with much debate and alliances but Trump's eventual election started>a whole new
level of division that has pretty much erased any true>moderate or "centralist" beliefs. People today are either left or>right. There is no other option. If you don't hate Trump, you are>a Trumpster ... and a racist to boot.>>Mrs. E.'s position is that the people elected him.>>I think if the Republicans had nominated someone else who shared the>same policy views as Trump but was better equipped temperment-wise>to execute those policies, we would not have the ultra political>division that exists today.>>I think Trump did many things that were in the best interests of the>USA. I can't say the same for the current crop of Democrats.>>So, it's difficult to claim to be a "centralist" today.The PBS show Frontline seemed to put the real divide at the electionof Obama but I think it goes back to Bush v Gore. There are stillplenty of Democrats who think Bush wasn't the legitimate president.

Obama was a boy scout compared to the current clown. At least
Obama was able to keep most of his hatred and contempt in check.
--
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gfretwell@aol.com Wrote in message:r
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 06:53:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>wrote:>On 1/9/2022 3:16 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:>> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:>>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:>>>>>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:>>>>>>>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149>>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this>>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)>>>>>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of>>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/>>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.>>>>>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising>>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.>>>>>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.>>>>>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with>>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join>>> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some boo
ks. :-)>>>>> >> ===>> >> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help sell their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution. It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.>>Mrs.E. (a Trumpster) and I had a recent debate about the status of this >country.>>My position is that although politically inspired>dissension has existed for many decades, the current situation, full of>animosity and hatred started when Donald Trump walked down the golden>escalator and announced his candidacy for POTUS. Since then, throughout >his term in office and to this day the division (which Walter claims>may lead to a Civil War) continues.>>Before Trump, the country had elected Republicans and Democrats, often>with much debate and alliances but Trump's eventual election started>a whole new
level of division that has pretty much erased any true>moderate or "centralist" beliefs. People today are either left or>right. There is no other option. If you don't hate Trump, you are>a Trumpster ... and a racist to boot.>>Mrs. E.'s position is that the people elected him.>>I think if the Republicans had nominated someone else who shared the>same policy views as Trump but was better equipped temperment-wise>to execute those policies, we would not have the ultra political>division that exists today.>>I think Trump did many things that were in the best interests of the>USA. I can't say the same for the current crop of Democrats.>>So, it's difficult to claim to be a "centralist" today.The PBS show Frontline seemed to put the real divide at the electionof Obama but I think it goes back to Bush v Gore. There are stillplenty of Democrats who think Bush wasn't the legitimate president.

Democrats think all kinds of crazy things. There's one near you
who thinks he's a centrist.
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On 1/10/2022 12:14 PM, Justan wrote:
> On 1/10/22 6:53 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>> On 1/9/2022 3:16 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>>>>>
>>>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this
>>>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)
>>>>
>>>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of
>>>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/
>>>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.
>>>>
>>>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising
>>>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.
>>>>
>>>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.
>>>>
>>>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with
>>>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join
>>>> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help
>>> sell their books for a long time.  That doesn't bother me, and it
>>> doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking.
>>> The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not
>>> surprisingly many people are unhappy about it.  The risk is that
>>> unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our
>>> democratic institutions and the constitution.  It's already
>>> happening.  That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and
>>> it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.
>>
>> Mrs.E. (a Trumpster) and I had a recent debate about the status of
>> this country.
>>
>> My position is that although politically inspired
>> dissension has existed for many decades, the current situation, full of
>> animosity and hatred started when Donald Trump walked down the golden
>> escalator and announced his candidacy for POTUS. Since then,
>> throughout his term in office and to this day the division (which
>> Walter claims
>> may lead to a Civil War) continues.
>>
>> Before Trump, the country had elected Republicans and Democrats, often
>> with much debate and alliances but Trump's eventual election started
>> a whole new level of division that has pretty much erased any true
>> moderate or "centralist"  beliefs.  People today are either left or
>> right.  There is no other option.  If you don't hate Trump, you are
>> a Trumpster ... and a racist to boot.
>>
>> Mrs. E.'s position is that the people elected him.
>>
>> I think if the Republicans had nominated someone else who shared the
>> same policy views as Trump but was better equipped temperment-wise
>> to execute those policies, we would not have the ultra political
>> division that exists today.
>>
>> I think Trump did many things that were in the best interests of the
>> USA.  I can't say the same for the current crop of Democrats.
>>
>> So, it's difficult to claim to be a "centralist" today.
>>
> What is really sad is that this division is based on a fellas personality.
> The country is being made to suffer because the hate has driven the party
> in power to undo all of the good things the prior administration has done
> for the country. Anyone who believes the current administration is doing
> good by America is out of his mind. I suppose it is possible for a
> centralist to be out of his mind. :-)
>

My problem with Trump is that I believe that the office of POTUS
requires a certain level of maturity, professionalism and a civil
temperament, all of which Trump lacks. He acts more like a junior
high school bully.

Yesterday I spent an hour or so watching old videos of Ronald Reagan
speeches including a debate with Jimmy Carter in 1980. Both were
critical of each other's policy views but I was struck by the
respect they gave each other personally. What a difference
to what we witness today! Trump started his campaign by
verbally harassing and personally attacking the other 16 Republicans
seeking the GOP nomination .... well before the Democrat's "Russia,
Russia, Russia" mantra really took hold. It's in his DNA.

Anywhoo, let's see what happens in 2022 and 2024.

--
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On 1/10/2022 2:58 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 06:53:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/9/2022 3:16 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149
>>>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this
>>>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)
>>>>
>>>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of
>>>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/
>>>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.
>>>>
>>>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising
>>>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.
>>>>
>>>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.
>>>>
>>>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with
>>>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join
>>>> in in a more hi-brow manner and sell some books. :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help sell their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not surprisingly many people are unhappy about it. The risk is that unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our democratic institutions and the constitution. It's already happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.
>>
>> Mrs.E. (a Trumpster) and I had a recent debate about the status of this
>> country.
>>
>> My position is that although politically inspired
>> dissension has existed for many decades, the current situation, full of
>> animosity and hatred started when Donald Trump walked down the golden
>> escalator and announced his candidacy for POTUS. Since then, throughout
>> his term in office and to this day the division (which Walter claims
>> may lead to a Civil War) continues.
>>
>> Before Trump, the country had elected Republicans and Democrats, often
>> with much debate and alliances but Trump's eventual election started
>> a whole new level of division that has pretty much erased any true
>> moderate or "centralist" beliefs. People today are either left or
>> right. There is no other option. If you don't hate Trump, you are
>> a Trumpster ... and a racist to boot.
>>
>> Mrs. E.'s position is that the people elected him.
>>
>> I think if the Republicans had nominated someone else who shared the
>> same policy views as Trump but was better equipped temperment-wise
>> to execute those policies, we would not have the ultra political
>> division that exists today.
>>
>> I think Trump did many things that were in the best interests of the
>> USA. I can't say the same for the current crop of Democrats.
>>
>> So, it's difficult to claim to be a "centralist" today.
>
> The PBS show Frontline seemed to put the real divide at the election
> of Obama but I think it goes back to Bush v Gore. There are still
> plenty of Democrats who think Bush wasn't the legitimate president.

The post-mortem of the Bush/Gore contest indicates Bush won. He also
defeated Kerry for re-election in 2004.

If you haven't, I recommend
reading Bush's book "Decision Points". In it he lays out several of
the critical decisions he made as POTUS in a detailed, non "hyped"
manner. It left me with a more heightened degree of respect for the
man.

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"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
> On 1/10/2022 12:14 PM, Justan wrote:> On 1/10/22 6:53 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:>> On 1/9/2022 3:16 PM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:>>> On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:>>>> On 1/9/2022 12:14 PM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:>>>>>>>>> This is a very thought provoking and insightful article:>>>>>>>>>> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/civil-war-in-the-united-states-is-far-more-likely-than-you-think-in-fact-it-may-have-already-begun-11641418149 >>>>>>>>> Wayne, you might want to consider doing some more reading about this>>>> opinion article that is based on interests (and a newly released book)>>>>>>>> Walter is a professor of political science at the University of>>>> California at San Diego. Her primary interest and papers/>>>> publications are on the US and other Civil Wars.>>>>>>>> With that as a platform for her *opinions* it is not surprising>>>> that she'd tie current events to a pending Civil War.>>>>>>>> I read it (plus more about her) and take it with a grain of salt.>>>>>>>> If people with companies can make money selling toilet paper with>>>> pictures of Trump, Biden, Pelosi and others, she may as well join>>>> in in a more hi-
brow manner and sell some books. :-)>>>>>>>>>> ===>>>>>> Writers have been using magazine articles and opinion pieces to help >>> sell their books for a long time. That doesn't bother me, and it >>> doesn't make their opinions less valuable and thought provoking. >>> The cultural shifts that she mentions are undeniable, and not >>> surprisingly many people are unhappy about it. The risk is that >>> unhappiness will spill over into attempts at subverting our >>> democratic institutions and the constitution. It's already >>> happening. That's the wrong way to defend our cultural heritage, and >>> it will lead to increased strife in my opinion.>>>> Mrs.E. (a Trumpster) and I had a recent debate about the status of >> this country.>>>> My position is that although politically inspired>> dissension has existed for many decades, the current situation, full of>> animosity and hatred started when Donald Trump walked down the golden>> escalator and announced his candidacy for POTUS. Since then, >> throughout his term in office and to this day the division (which >> Walter claims>> may lead to a Civil War) continues.>>>> Before Trump, the country had elected Republicans and Democrats
, often>> with much debate and alliances but Trump's eventual election started>> a whole new level of division that has pretty much erased any true>> moderate or "centralist" beliefs. People today are either left or>> right. There is no other option. If you don't hate Trump, you are>> a Trumpster ... and a racist to boot.>>>> Mrs. E.'s position is that the people elected him.>>>> I think if the Republicans had nominated someone else who shared the>> same policy views as Trump but was better equipped temperment-wise>> to execute those policies, we would not have the ultra political>> division that exists today.>>>> I think Trump did many things that were in the best interests of the>> USA. I can't say the same for the current crop of Democrats.>>>> So, it's difficult to claim to be a "centralist" today.>>> What is really sad is that this division is based on a fellas personality.> The country is being made to suffer because the hate has driven the party> in power to undo all of the good things the prior administration has done> for the country. Anyone who believes the current administration is doing> good by America is out of his mind. I suppose it is possible for a> centralis
t to be out of his mind. :-)> My problem with Trump is that I believe that the office of POTUSrequires a certain level of maturity, professionalism and a civiltemperament, all of which Trump lacks. He acts more like a juniorhigh school bully.Yesterday I spent an hour or so watching old videos of Ronald Reaganspeeches including a debate with Jimmy Carter in 1980. Both werecritical of each other's policy views but I was struck by therespect they gave each other personally. What a differenceto what we witness today! Trump started his campaign byverbally harassing and personally attacking the other 16 Republicans seeking the GOP nomination .... well before the Democrat's "Russia, Russia, Russia" mantra really took hold. It's in his DNA.Anywhoo, let's see what happens in 2022 and 2024.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com

Your points are hard to argue with. BUT it took a tough guy to
stand up to the band of bullys that the democrat Party has
morphed into.
When God was handing out tact and deplomacy, Trump was around the
corner making deals and letting the world know how he felt. At
the same time Joey was in his basement stealing marbles from his
friends and relatives. If you had to choose, which of those two
would you rather be in a lifeboat with, far out to sea? Put
another way. Would you rather have the wheeler dealer or the
hollow man as president?
I think it's time to stop reliving the past and start holding the
pols, who are currently in charge of this mess, accountable.
Democrats are 99% of one voice and they won't help clean it up.
We can't let those directing their lemmings to further damage
America. Vote early. Vote often.

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