https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight

Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.

The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.

Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
The Washington Post reported.

.. . .

Note "technical event" rather than "weather".

Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
the ceiling and tossed all around.

Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?

The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.

On 3/11/2024 3:50 PM, 67hx.1803 wrote:
> https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight
>
> Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
> Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.
>
> The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
> experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
> a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.
>
> Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
> ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
> taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
> condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
> The Washington Post reported.
>
> . . .
>
>   Note "technical event" rather than "weather".
>
>   Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
>   into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
>   the ceiling and tossed all around.
>
>   Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?
>
>   The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
>   suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
>   to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.

A former Boeing employee known for raising concerns about the firm’s
production standards has been found dead in the US.

John Barnett had worked for Boeing for 32 years, until his retirement in
2017.

In the days before his death, he had been giving evidence in a
whistleblower lawsuit against the company.

Boeing said it was saddened to hear of Mr Barnett’s passing. The
Charleston County coroner confirmed his death to the BBC on Monday.

It said the 62-year-old had died from a “self-inflicted” wound on 9
March and police were investigating.

Mr Barnett had worked for the US plane giant for 32 years, until his
retirement in 2017 on health grounds.

Barnett’s apparent suicide comes after several Boeing planes have been
grounded due to major issues with the aircraft’s construction.

A United Airlines Boeing 737 Max 8 suffered gear failure last Friday and
crashed off the runway at Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental Airport.

Friday’s gear failure comes one day after a United Airlines Boeing 777
plane was forced to make an emergency landing after it lost a tire
during takeoff.

The United plane was taking off from San Francisco when one of the six
tires detached from the aircraft and damaged several cars in the parking
lot. The flight was diverted to LAX where it safely landed.

In January a large piece of an Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX blew out
in mid-air.

The plane door flew off amid Boeing’s focus on Diversity, Equity and
Inclusion (DEI) hiring practices over a passenger’s safety.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
--
You voted for student loan forgiveness. You got demographic replacement
and World War 3.

"Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324(a) defines several distinct offenses related to
aliens. Subsection 1324(a)(1)(i)-(v) prohibits alien smuggling, domestic
transportation of unauthorized aliens, concealing or harboring
unauthorized aliens, encouraging or inducing unauthorized aliens to
enter the United States, and engaging in a conspiracy or aiding and
abetting any of the preceding acts. Subsection 1324(a)(2) prohibits
bringing or attempting to bring unauthorized aliens to the United States
in any manner whatsoever, even at a designated port of entry. Subsection
1324(a)(3)."

“Western values mean three things: migration, LGBTQ, and war." Viktor Orban

https://www.globalgulag.us

On 3/11/2024 4:49 PM, Lucas McCain wrote:
> On 3/11/2024 3:50 PM, 67hx.1803 wrote:
>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight
>>
>> Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
>> Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.
>>
>> The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
>> experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
>> a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.
>>
>> Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
>> ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
>> taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
>> condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
>> The Washington Post reported.
>>
>> . . .
>>
>>    Note "technical event" rather than "weather".
>>
>>    Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
>>    into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
>>    the ceiling and tossed all around.
>>
>>    Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?
>>
>>    The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
>>    suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
>>    to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.
>
> A former Boeing employee known for raising concerns about the firm’s
> production standards has been found dead in the US.
>
> John Barnett had worked for Boeing for 32 years, until his retirement in
> 2017.
>
> In the days before his death, he had been giving evidence in a
> whistleblower lawsuit against the company.
>
> Boeing said it was saddened to hear of Mr Barnett’s passing. The
> Charleston County coroner confirmed his death to the BBC on Monday.
>
> It said the 62-year-old had died from a “self-inflicted” wound on 9
> March and police were investigating.
>
> Mr Barnett had worked for the US plane giant for 32 years, until his
> retirement in 2017 on health grounds.
>
> Barnett’s apparent suicide comes after several Boeing planes have been
> grounded due to major issues with the aircraft’s construction.
>
> A United Airlines Boeing 737 Max 8 suffered gear failure last Friday and
> crashed off the runway at Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental Airport.
>
> Friday’s gear failure comes one day after a United Airlines Boeing 777
> plane was forced to make an emergency landing after it lost a tire
> during takeoff.
>
> The United plane was taking off from San Francisco when one of the six
> tires detached from the aircraft and damaged several cars in the parking
> lot. The flight was diverted to LAX where it safely landed.
>
> In January a large piece of an Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX blew out
> in mid-air.
>
> The plane door flew off amid Boeing’s focus on Diversity, Equity and
> Inclusion (DEI) hiring practices over a passenger’s safety.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703

Wall Street Journal breaks down what occurred onboard the Dream Liner:

https://www.wsj.com/world/everything-hit-the-roof-a-moment-of-horror-unfolds-on-a-boeing-787-528e3b11

--
You voted for student loan forgiveness. You got demographic replacement
and World War 3.

"Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324(a) defines several distinct offenses related to
aliens. Subsection 1324(a)(1)(i)-(v) prohibits alien smuggling, domestic
transportation of unauthorized aliens, concealing or harboring
unauthorized aliens, encouraging or inducing unauthorized aliens to
enter the United States, and engaging in a conspiracy or aiding and
abetting any of the preceding acts. Subsection 1324(a)(2) prohibits
bringing or attempting to bring unauthorized aliens to the United States
in any manner whatsoever, even at a designated port of entry. Subsection
1324(a)(3)."

“Western values mean three things: migration, LGBTQ, and war." Viktor Orban

https://www.globalgulag.us

On 2024-03-12, Lucas McCain <Lucas_McCain@tutanato.com> wrote:
> On 3/11/2024 4:49 PM, Lucas McCain wrote:
>> On 3/11/2024 3:50 PM, 67hx.1803 wrote:
>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight
>>>
>>> Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
>>> Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.
>>>
>>> The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
>>> experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
>>> a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.
>>>
>>> Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
>>> ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
>>> taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
>>> condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
>>> The Washington Post reported.
>>>
>>> . . .
>>>
>>>    Note "technical event" rather than "weather".
>>>
>>>    Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
>>>    into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
>>>    the ceiling and tossed all around.
>>>
>>>    Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?
>>>
>>>    The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
>>>    suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
>>>    to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.
>>
>> A former Boeing employee known for raising concerns about the firm’s
>> production standards has been found dead in the US.
>>
>> John Barnett had worked for Boeing for 32 years, until his retirement in
>> 2017.
>>
>> In the days before his death, he had been giving evidence in a
>> whistleblower lawsuit against the company.
>>
>> Boeing said it was saddened to hear of Mr Barnett’s passing. The
>> Charleston County coroner confirmed his death to the BBC on Monday.
>>
>> It said the 62-year-old had died from a “self-inflicted” wound on 9
>> March and police were investigating.
>>
>> Mr Barnett had worked for the US plane giant for 32 years, until his
>> retirement in 2017 on health grounds.
>>
>> Barnett’s apparent suicide comes after several Boeing planes have been
>> grounded due to major issues with the aircraft’s construction.
>>
>> A United Airlines Boeing 737 Max 8 suffered gear failure last Friday and
>> crashed off the runway at Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental Airport.
>>
>> Friday’s gear failure comes one day after a United Airlines Boeing 777
>> plane was forced to make an emergency landing after it lost a tire
>> during takeoff.
>>
>> The United plane was taking off from San Francisco when one of the six
>> tires detached from the aircraft and damaged several cars in the parking
>> lot. The flight was diverted to LAX where it safely landed.
>>
>> In January a large piece of an Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX blew out
>> in mid-air.
>>
>> The plane door flew off amid Boeing’s focus on Diversity, Equity and
>> Inclusion (DEI) hiring practices over a passenger’s safety.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
>
> Wall Street Journal breaks down what occurred onboard the Dream Liner:
>
> https://www.wsj.com/world/everything-hit-the-roof-a-moment-of-horror-unfolds-on-a-boeing-787-528e3b11
>
Back in the 90's I was on a 747 that kept trying to land at Hartsfield in GA. The weather was real
stormy with ice showers, unusual for Atlanta, low visibility and such. We circled for ~2 hours
before the pilot informed us we were going to land an be prepared for a rough landing.

She wasn't kidding. I was a seasoned business traveler at that stage but I never expected this.
The plane hit the runway, bounce 1 or 2 times and then skidded sideways, fishtailing down the
runway.
The force was so great that overhead bins opened and luggage was flying all around the plane.
I thought I was going to die, so did everyone else.

Finally we came to a stop at a 45 degree angle at the end of the runway.
Everyone started cheering and clapping as the captain, a female BTW, had done an excellent job.

Emergency vehicles met the plane and we slid down the chutes which was kind of fun, I admit.

One example of karma, when I boarded the plane, some joker was sitting in my assigned seat and
refused to move. I called the flight attendant and my ticket was valid and his wrong. She offered
me a seat in first class if I would just drop it which of course I did.

So as it turns out some luggage flying around the plane hit the guy who took my seat and he had to
get transported to the hospital because he was bleeding from his face and head.

Karma strikes again.

Side note: These days I wouldn't set foot on an aircraft.

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On 3/12/2024 3:58 PM, pothead wrote:
> On 2024-03-12, Lucas McCain <Lucas_McCain@tutanato.com> wrote:
>> On 3/11/2024 4:49 PM, Lucas McCain wrote:
>>> On 3/11/2024 3:50 PM, 67hx.1803 wrote:
>>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight
>>>>
>>>> Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
>>>> Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.
>>>>
>>>> The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
>>>> experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
>>>> a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.
>>>>
>>>> Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
>>>> ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
>>>> taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
>>>> condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
>>>> The Washington Post reported.
>>>>
>>>> . . .
>>>>
>>>>    Note "technical event" rather than "weather".
>>>>
>>>>    Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
>>>>    into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
>>>>    the ceiling and tossed all around.
>>>>
>>>>    Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?
>>>>
>>>>    The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
>>>>    suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
>>>>    to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.
>>>
>>> A former Boeing employee known for raising concerns about the firm’s
>>> production standards has been found dead in the US.
>>>
>>> John Barnett had worked for Boeing for 32 years, until his retirement in
>>> 2017.
>>>
>>> In the days before his death, he had been giving evidence in a
>>> whistleblower lawsuit against the company.
>>>
>>> Boeing said it was saddened to hear of Mr Barnett’s passing. The
>>> Charleston County coroner confirmed his death to the BBC on Monday.
>>>
>>> It said the 62-year-old had died from a “self-inflicted” wound on 9
>>> March and police were investigating.
>>>
>>> Mr Barnett had worked for the US plane giant for 32 years, until his
>>> retirement in 2017 on health grounds.
>>>
>>> Barnett’s apparent suicide comes after several Boeing planes have been
>>> grounded due to major issues with the aircraft’s construction.
>>>
>>> A United Airlines Boeing 737 Max 8 suffered gear failure last Friday and
>>> crashed off the runway at Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental Airport.
>>>
>>> Friday’s gear failure comes one day after a United Airlines Boeing 777
>>> plane was forced to make an emergency landing after it lost a tire
>>> during takeoff.
>>>
>>> The United plane was taking off from San Francisco when one of the six
>>> tires detached from the aircraft and damaged several cars in the parking
>>> lot. The flight was diverted to LAX where it safely landed.
>>>
>>> In January a large piece of an Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX blew out
>>> in mid-air.
>>>
>>> The plane door flew off amid Boeing’s focus on Diversity, Equity and
>>> Inclusion (DEI) hiring practices over a passenger’s safety.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
>>
>> Wall Street Journal breaks down what occurred onboard the Dream Liner:
>>
>> https://www.wsj.com/world/everything-hit-the-roof-a-moment-of-horror-unfolds-on-a-boeing-787-528e3b11
>>
> Back in the 90's I was on a 747 that kept trying to land at Hartsfield in GA. The weather was real
> stormy with ice showers, unusual for Atlanta, low visibility and such. We circled for ~2 hours
> before the pilot informed us we were going to land an be prepared for a rough landing.
>
> She wasn't kidding. I was a seasoned business traveler at that stage but I never expected this.
> The plane hit the runway, bounce 1 or 2 times and then skidded sideways, fishtailing down the
> runway.
> The force was so great that overhead bins opened and luggage was flying all around the plane.
> I thought I was going to die, so did everyone else.
>
> Finally we came to a stop at a 45 degree angle at the end of the runway.
> Everyone started cheering and clapping as the captain, a female BTW, had done an excellent job.
>
> Emergency vehicles met the plane and we slid down the chutes which was kind of fun, I admit.
>
> One example of karma, when I boarded the plane, some joker was sitting in my assigned seat and
> refused to move. I called the flight attendant and my ticket was valid and his wrong. She offered
> me a seat in first class if I would just drop it which of course I did.
>
> So as it turns out some luggage flying around the plane hit the guy who took my seat and he had to
> get transported to the hospital because he was bleeding from his face and head.
>
> Karma strikes again.
>
> Side note: These days I wouldn't set foot on an aircraft.
>

My father was flying on a Military Air Transport Service from Tokyo to
Anchorage in 1965 (IIRC) on his way to San Francisco to try to be at the
side of his dying mother when the pilot noticed the runway buckling and
the control tower collapsing as they approached Anchorage and had the
wits about him to rev up the jet engines and fly on to Kodiak,
fortunately having enough jet fuel to land elsewhere. Anchorage was hit
by a huge 7 plus Richter Scale earthquake as they were landing. I was in
Yokohama with my mother and siblings at the time, and remember a
similarly large earthquake hitting withing a short time after the Alaska
quake, bending railroad tracks into snake-like patterns and knocking
down buildings.

In '68 or '69 I was flying into Chicago's O'hare (sp?) airport when the
pilot announced there were snipers firing at aircraft from the city
below during riots so he said they were going to descend very rapidly in
an attempt to avoid the sniper fire. We hit the runway at what was near
the maximum G force the landing gear could sustain without collapsing,
which felt back breaking, Such an interesting time to be alive.
--
You voted for student loan forgiveness. You got demographic replacement
and World War 3.

"Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324(a) defines several distinct offenses related to
aliens. Subsection 1324(a)(1)(i)-(v) prohibits alien smuggling, domestic
transportation of unauthorized aliens, concealing or harboring
unauthorized aliens, encouraging or inducing unauthorized aliens to
enter the United States, and engaging in a conspiracy or aiding and
abetting any of the preceding acts. Subsection 1324(a)(2) prohibits
bringing or attempting to bring unauthorized aliens to the United States
in any manner whatsoever, even at a designated port of entry. Subsection
1324(a)(3)."

“Western values mean three things: migration, LGBTQ, and war." Viktor Orban

https://www.globalgulag.us

On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 21:58:42 -0000 (UTC), pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:

>Back in the 90's I was on a 747 that kept trying to land at Hartsfield in GA. The weather was real
>stormy with ice showers, unusual for Atlanta, low visibility and such. We circled for ~2 hours
>before the pilot informed us we were going to land an be prepared for a rough landing.
>
>She wasn't kidding. I was a seasoned business traveler at that stage but I never expected this.
>The plane hit the runway, bounce 1 or 2 times and then skidded sideways, fishtailing down the
>runway.
>The force was so great that overhead bins opened and luggage was flying all around the plane.
>I thought I was going to die, so did everyone else.
>
>Finally we came to a stop at a 45 degree angle at the end of the runway.
>Everyone started cheering and clapping as the captain, a female BTW, had done an excellent job.
>
>Emergency vehicles met the plane and we slid down the chutes which was kind of fun, I admit.
>
>One example of karma, when I boarded the plane, some joker was sitting in my assigned seat and
>refused to move. I called the flight attendant and my ticket was valid and his wrong. She offered
>me a seat in first class if I would just drop it which of course I did.
>
>So as it turns out some luggage flying around the plane hit the guy who took my seat and he had to
>get transported to the hospital because he was bleeding from his face and head.
>
>Karma strikes again.
>
>Side note: These days I wouldn't set foot on an aircraft.

Why not?

Swill
--
"There are no wrong books. What's wrong is the fear of them."

When Donald Trump was in third grade . . .
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/07/10

Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.
<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Mar 2024 21:58:42 -0000 (UTC)) it happened pothead
<pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in <usqj6h$h7gf$1@dont-email.me>:

>On 2024-03-12, Lucas McCain <Lucas_McCain@tutanato.com> wrote:
>> On 3/11/2024 4:49 PM, Lucas McCain wrote:
>>> On 3/11/2024 3:50 PM, 67hx.1803 wrote:
>>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight
>>>>
>>>> Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
>>>> Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.
>>>>
>>>> The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
>>>> experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
>>>> a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.
>>>>
>>>> Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
>>>> ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
>>>> taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
>>>> condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
>>>> The Washington Post reported.
>>>>
>>>> . . .
>>>>
>>>>    Note "technical event" rather than "weather".
>>>>
>>>>    Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
>>>>    into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
>>>>    the ceiling and tossed all around.
>>>>
>>>>    Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?
>>>>
>>>>    The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
>>>>    suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
>>>>    to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.
>>>
>>> A former Boeing employee known for raising concerns about the firm’s
>>> production standards has been found dead in the US.
>>>
>>> John Barnett had worked for Boeing for 32 years, until his retirement in
>>> 2017.
>>>
>>> In the days before his death, he had been giving evidence in a
>>> whistleblower lawsuit against the company.
>>>
>>> Boeing said it was saddened to hear of Mr Barnett’s passing. The
>>> Charleston County coroner confirmed his death to the BBC on Monday.
>>>
>>> It said the 62-year-old had died from a “self-inflicted” wound on 9
>>> March and police were investigating.
>>>
>>> Mr Barnett had worked for the US plane giant for 32 years, until his
>>> retirement in 2017 on health grounds.
>>>
>>> Barnett’s apparent suicide comes after several Boeing planes have been
>>> grounded due to major issues with the aircraft’s construction.
>>>
>>> A United Airlines Boeing 737 Max 8 suffered gear failure last Friday and
>>> crashed off the runway at Houston’s George Bush Intercontinental Airport.
>>>
>>> Friday’s gear failure comes one day after a United Airlines Boeing 777
>>> plane was forced to make an emergency landing after it lost a tire
>>> during takeoff.
>>>
>>> The United plane was taking off from San Francisco when one of the six
>>> tires detached from the aircraft and damaged several cars in the parking
>>> lot. The flight was diverted to LAX where it safely landed.
>>>
>>> In January a large piece of an Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX blew out
>>> in mid-air.
>>>
>>> The plane door flew off amid Boeing’s focus on Diversity, Equity and
>>> Inclusion (DEI) hiring practices over a passenger’s safety.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703
>>
>> Wall Street Journal breaks down what occurred onboard the Dream Liner:
>>
>> https://www.wsj.com/world/everything-hit-the-roof-a-moment-of-horror-unfolds-on-a-boeing-787-528e3b11
>>
>Back in the 90's I was on a 747 that kept trying to land at Hartsfield in GA. The weather was real
>stormy with ice showers, unusual for Atlanta, low visibility and such. We circled for ~2 hours
>before the pilot informed us we were going to land an be prepared for a rough landing.
>
>She wasn't kidding. I was a seasoned business traveler at that stage but I never expected this.
>The plane hit the runway, bounce 1 or 2 times and then skidded sideways, fishtailing down the
>runway.
>The force was so great that overhead bins opened and luggage was flying all around the plane.
>I thought I was going to die, so did everyone else.
>
>Finally we came to a stop at a 45 degree angle at the end of the runway.
>Everyone started cheering and clapping as the captain, a female BTW, had done an excellent job.
>
>Emergency vehicles met the plane and we slid down the chutes which was kind of fun, I admit.
>
>One example of karma, when I boarded the plane, some joker was sitting in my assigned seat and
>refused to move. I called the flight attendant and my ticket was valid and his wrong. She offered
>me a seat in first class if I would just drop it which of course I did.
>
>So as it turns out some luggage flying around the plane hit the guy who took my seat and he had to
>get transported to the hospital because he was bleeding from his face and head.
>
>Karma strikes again.
>
>Side note: These days I wouldn't set foot on an aircraft.

Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel before landing back again in Barcelona
welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
People were applauding the captain too.
I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what looked like oil
under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before boarding to see if anything is wrong,
but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported the incident, and they then did an article about airplane maintenance.
I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer (alarm bells) come on...
was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
But I am still flying :-)

>pothead
>Tommy Chong For President 2024.
>Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
>Impeach Joe Biden 2022.
>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel before landing back again in Barcelona
> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
> People were applauding the captain too.
> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what looked like oil
> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before boarding to see if anything is wrong,
> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported the incident, and they then did an article about airplane maintenance.
> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer (alarm bells) come on...
> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
> But I am still flying :-)

Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they didn't
have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.

Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
their security controls.

On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
<nospam@example.net> wrote in
<baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:

>
>
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel before landing back again in Barcelona
>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>> People were applauding the captain too.
>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what looked like oil
>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before boarding to see if anything is wrong,
>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported the incident, and they then did an article about airplane
>> maintenance.
>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer (alarm bells) come on...
>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>> But I am still flying :-)
>
>Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they didn't
>have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>
>Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>their security controls.

I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight through a local travel agency.
Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at that time to where I lived,
got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where I would often fly),
did not even make much difference in time,
more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even get a cabin.
But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent (or was it President ;-0)
trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
Is there a correlation? 2019:
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html

On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel before landing back again in Barcelona
>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what looked like oil
>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before boarding to see if anything is wrong,
>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported the incident, and they then did an article about airplane
>>> maintenance.
>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer (alarm bells) come on...
>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>
>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they didn't
>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>
>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>> their security controls.
>
> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight through a local travel agency.
> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at that time to where I lived,
> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where I would often fly),
> did not even make much difference in time,
> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even get a cabin.
> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent (or was it President ;-0)
> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
> Is there a correlation? 2019:
> https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html

Look at the story. It is not political and your time frame is off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing

It was a simple matter of management putting profits over quality. A
fault of many corporations.

I had a two day visit to Boeing facilities and labs decades ago and was
impressed with their attention to detail even endurance tests on
aircraft in long time service. Sadly this has changed.

Frank wrote on 3/13/2024 10:43 AM:
> On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
>> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from
>>>> Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel
>>>> before landing back again in Barcelona
>>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what
>>>> looked like oil
>>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before
>>>> boarding to see if anything is wrong,
>>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported
>>>> the incident, and they then did an article about airplane
>>>> maintenance.
>>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer
>>>> (alarm bells) come on...
>>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>>
>>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they
>>> didn't
>>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>>
>>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>>> their security controls.
>>
>> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight
>> through a local travel agency.
>> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at
>> that time to where I lived,
>> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
>> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where
>> I would often fly),
>> did not even make much difference in time,
>> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even
>> get a cabin.
>> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
>> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent
>> (or was it President ;-0)
>> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
>> Is there a correlation? 2019:
>>   https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
>> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html
>
> Look at the story.  It is not political and your time frame is off.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing
>
> It was a simple matter of management putting profits over quality.  A
> fault of many corporations.
>
> I had a two day visit to Boeing facilities and labs decades ago and
> was impressed with their attention to detail even endurance tests on
> aircraft in long time service.  Sadly this has changed.

It's a failure of the American-style unfettered capitalist system. I
think state-capitalism (socialism) is a better economic system. Canada,
China, and most of the rich Nordic European countries are using some
form of socialistic economic system

China is already the world's largest car producer by country (
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/car-production-by-country
), while before 1980, bicycles were the main mode of transportation for
the populace in China.

Recently China has debuted its new C919 airliner. How long will China
take to become the world's largest airliner producer by country?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/19/business/china-comac-c919-international-debut-intl-hnk/index.html

February 20, 2024

Beijing’s C919 airliner, a potential rival to Western-made Boeing and
Airbus planes, made its first foray outside Chinese territory on Sunday
by staging a flyby at the Singapore Airshow.

On 3/13/2024 11:25 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> Frank wrote on 3/13/2024 10:43 AM:
>> On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
>>> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>>> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from
>>>>> Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel
>>>>> before landing back again in Barcelona
>>>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what
>>>>> looked like oil
>>>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before
>>>>> boarding to see if anything is wrong,
>>>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported
>>>>> the incident, and they then did an article about airplane
>>>>> maintenance.
>>>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer
>>>>> (alarm bells) come on...
>>>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>>>
>>>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>>>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they
>>>> didn't
>>>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>>>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>>>
>>>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>>>> their security controls.
>>>
>>> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight
>>> through a local travel agency.
>>> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at
>>> that time to where I lived,
>>> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
>>> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where
>>> I would often fly),
>>> did not even make much difference in time,
>>> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even
>>> get a cabin.
>>> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
>>> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent
>>> (or was it President ;-0)
>>> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
>>> Is there a correlation? 2019:
>>>   https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
>>> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html
>>
>> Look at the story.  It is not political and your time frame is off.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing
>>
>> It was a simple matter of management putting profits over quality.  A
>> fault of many corporations.
>>
>> I had a two day visit to Boeing facilities and labs decades ago and
>> was impressed with their attention to detail even endurance tests on
>> aircraft in long time service.  Sadly this has changed.
>
>
> It's a failure of the American-style unfettered capitalist system. I
> think state-capitalism (socialism) is a better economic system. Canada,
> China, and most of the rich Nordic European countries are using some
> form of socialistic economic system
>
> China is already the world's largest car producer by country (
> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/car-production-by-country ), while before 1980, bicycles were the main mode of transportation for the populace in China.
>
> Recently China has debuted its new C919 airliner. How long will China
> take to become the world's largest airliner producer by country?
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/19/business/china-comac-c919-international-debut-intl-hnk/index.html
>
> February 20, 2024
>
> Beijing’s C919 airliner, a potential rival to Western-made Boeing and
> Airbus planes, made its first foray outside Chinese territory on Sunday
> by staging a flyby at the Singapore Airshow.
>
>
>

I would prefer the risk of crashing in an airplane than having a
socialist government and you are promoting a communist government which
is far worse.

I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made ;)

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:

>On 3/13/2024 11:25 AM, ? Mighty Wannabe ? wrote:
>> Frank wrote on 3/13/2024 10:43 AM:
>>> On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
>>>> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>>>> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from
>>>>>> Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>>>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel
>>>>>> before landing back again in Barcelona
>>>>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>>>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>>>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what
>>>>>> looked like oil
>>>>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>>>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before
>>>>>> boarding to see if anything is wrong,
>>>>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>>>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported
>>>>>> the incident, and they then did an article about airplane
>>>>>> maintenance.
>>>>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer
>>>>>> (alarm bells) come on...
>>>>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>>>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>>>>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they
>>>>> didn't
>>>>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>>>>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>>>>> their security controls.
>>>>
>>>> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight
>>>> through a local travel agency.
>>>> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at
>>>> that time to where I lived,
>>>> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
>>>> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where
>>>> I would often fly),
>>>> did not even make much difference in time,
>>>> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even
>>>> get a cabin.
>>>> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
>>>> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent
>>>> (or was it President ;-0)
>>>> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
>>>> Is there a correlation? 2019:
>>>>   https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
>>>> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html
>>>
>>> Look at the story.  It is not political and your time frame is off.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing
>>>
>>> It was a simple matter of management putting profits over quality.  A
>>> fault of many corporations.
>>>
>>> I had a two day visit to Boeing facilities and labs decades ago and
>>> was impressed with their attention to detail even endurance tests on
>>> aircraft in long time service.  Sadly this has changed.
>>
>>
>> It's a failure of the American-style unfettered capitalist system. I
>> think state-capitalism (socialism) is a better economic system. Canada,
>> China, and most of the rich Nordic European countries are using some
>> form of socialistic economic system
>>
>> China is already the world's largest car producer by country (
>> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/car-production-by-country ), while before 1980, bicycles were the main mode of transportation for the populace in China.
>>
>> Recently China has debuted its new C919 airliner. How long will China
>> take to become the world's largest airliner producer by country?
>>
>> https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/19/business/china-comac-c919-international-debut-intl-hnk/index.html
>>
>> February 20, 2024
>>
>> Beijing’s C919 airliner, a potential rival to Western-made Boeing and
>> Airbus planes, made its first foray outside Chinese territory on Sunday
>> by staging a flyby at the Singapore Airshow.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I would prefer the risk of crashing in an airplane than having a
>socialist government and you are promoting a communist government which
>is far worse.
>
>I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made ;)

They've grounded their one remaining a-50 early radar warning aircraft because the UA shot
down the other two. The us has more models a "ERWA" than Russia ever had PLANES to do the
job. America has more MODELS of stealth aircraft than Russia has airworthy stealth
aircraft and the Russian planes are garbage. They're vastly easier to spot with radar and
they keep falling out of the sky without the help of anti aircraft fire.

Swill
--
It's time for a third party. Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

"Forward empowers leaders to find solutions that work in their communities.
We won’t dictate a rigid, top-down policy platform and expect it to work
for all Americans.

"

When Donald Trump was in third grade . . .
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/07/10

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.

<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:

> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made

Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?

On 3/13/2024 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>
>
>> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made
>
> Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?

Had to google that one up:

Can a MiG-29 beat an F-35?
The Mig-29 was massacred by our 4th Generation fleet. It stands no
chance against the F35 which has been massacring all challengers since
its introduction to the world.

On 3/13/24 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>
>
>> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made
>
> Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?

SOME Russian planes ARE good - others are CRAP. Not
much consistency. Insofar as military aircraft,
Russia still prefers many-and-cheap to the US mantra
of "few-and-all-capable".

Russia does make pretty good heavy choppers ...

Frank wrote on 3/13/2024 7:03 PM:
> On 3/13/2024 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made
>>
>> Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?
>
> Had to google that one up:
>
> Can a MiG-29 beat an F-35?

This ain't 'Nam. I doubt in a real war with Russia there would be any
aerial dogfights. It will be fought with air-to-air missiles and
ground-to-air missiles. The real reason Nixon had to pull out of 'Nam
was because North Vietnam shot down 15 B-52s in 11 days with Soviet SA2
missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II

Only old Soviet bloc countries like Ukraine are still using Mig-29. How
long have you been living under that rock? Russia has new lineup of
fifth generation aircraft now (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-generation_fighter#Russia ).

Comparison of F-35 Lightning II and Su-35 BM
https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Comparison_of_F-35_Lightning_II_and_Su-35_BM

On 2024-03-13, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
> On 3/13/24 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made
>>
>> Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?
>
> SOME Russian planes ARE good - others are CRAP. Not
> much consistency. Insofar as military aircraft,
> Russia still prefers many-and-cheap to the US mantra
> of "few-and-all-capable".
>
> Russia does make pretty good heavy choppers ...

A friend of mine used to work for a US carrier, TWA I think, and the technicians called the
Russian planes AeroFLOP instead of Aeroflot because they were made so poorly although i don't
recall hearing of many crashes.
--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 19:03:24 -0400, Frank wrote:

> Can a MiG-29 beat an F-35?
> The Mig-29 was massacred by our 4th Generation fleet. It stands no
> chance against the F35 which has been massacring all challengers since
> its introduction to the world.

https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/
https://www.pogo.org/analysis/has-the-pentagon-learned-from-the-f-35-
debacle
https://www.businessinsider.com/ongoing-f35-fighter-jet-problems-affect-
whole-us-military-fleet-2023-1

Mostly the F-35 has been massacring itself. It has joined the walk of
shame that includes the Zumwalt class:

https://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-largest-destoryer-uss-zumwalt-us-
navy-ship-biggest-2022-6

and both flavors of the LCS fiasco.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2023/10/04/can-the-us-navy-save-money-
by-accepting-the-lcs-as-a-sunk-cost/

Thankfully we still have Arleigh Burke class destroyers and F-16s. Oh, and
don't forget the B-52s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Bomber

Lockheed Martin, Northrup Grumman, Bath Iron Works, and the rest of the
usual suspects rake in billions for shit that doesn't work. The Zumwalt
was the real laugh when the Navy found they couldn't afford to buy ammo
for the super high-tech guns. The litoral ships could be taken out by a
suicidal raghead with a Zodiac.

The US fighting a real war? Give me a break.

😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> Frank wrote on 3/13/2024 10:43 AM:
>> On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
>>> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>>> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from
>>>>> Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel before
>>>>> landing back again in Barcelona
>>>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what looked like oil
>>>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before boarding to
>>>>> see if anything is wrong,
>>>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported the
>>>>> incident, and they then did an article about airplane
>>>>> maintenance.
>>>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer (alarm
>>>>> bells) come on...
>>>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>>>
>>>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>>>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they didn't
>>>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>>>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>>>
>>>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>>>> their security controls.
>>>
>>> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight through a
>>> local travel agency.
>>> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at that time
>>> to where I lived,
>>> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
>>> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where I would
>>> often fly),
>>> did not even make much difference in time,
>>> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even get a
>>> cabin.
>>> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
>>> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent (or was
>>> it President ;-0)
>>> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
>>> Is there a correlation? 2019:
>>>   https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
>>> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html
>>
>> Look at the story.  It is not political and your time frame is off.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing
>>
>> It was a simple matter of management putting profits over quality.  A fault of
>> many corporations.
>>
>> I had a two day visit to Boeing facilities and labs decades ago and was
>> impressed with their attention to detail even endurance tests on aircraft in
>> long time service.  Sadly this has changed.
>
>
> It's a failure of the American-style unfettered capitalist system.

The government requiring that businesses hire unqualified niggers
and women is NOT unfettered capitalism.

On 3/13/24 8:06 PM, pothead wrote:
> On 2024-03-13, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
>> On 3/13/24 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made
>>>
>>> Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?
>>
>> SOME Russian planes ARE good - others are CRAP. Not
>> much consistency. Insofar as military aircraft,
>> Russia still prefers many-and-cheap to the US mantra
>> of "few-and-all-capable".
>>
>> Russia does make pretty good heavy choppers ...
>
> A friend of mine used to work for a US carrier, TWA I think, and the technicians called the
> Russian planes AeroFLOP instead of Aeroflot because they were made so poorly although i don't
> recall hearing of many crashes.

They don't seem to crash any more than Boeing's or
Airbus - mile for mile.

The Russian psychology seems to differ a bit. Instead
of trying to ride the technological bleeding edge for
most planes they instead trend towards "simple and
tough". In short they are built to "get the job done",
minus any flair.

This may be an advantage.

I just can't bring myself to seriously diss Russian
aircraft. Their mil offerings have always presented
a huge challenge to western designs and their civvie,
esp heavy-cargo, offerings DO get the job done even
if they are old and beaten-up.

Russian aeronautical designers are top-rate,
sometimes genius. The issues seem to arise further
downstream, at the funding/manufacturing level and
esp if the State starts demanding too many too quickly.

"Dedicated mission" - also a difference in psychology.
Russia tends to build fighters to, well, fight. Bombers
to bomb. The West wants "all-purpose" which is rather
expensive and sometimes produces huge clunkers.

It was not always thus .... consider the F-104 (one of
the most beautiful warplanes ever IMHO). Pilots and Mil
really didn't like it very much, but it had a SPECIAL
PURPOSE. If the radar suddenly showed a giant blob
headed west the F-104 was meant to be the spear-head,
get there REALLY FAST and DO DAMAGE before the wave
made much progress. They were the "smart" hypersonic
missile of their time. Officially Mach-2, but the
pilots later revealed that, with the bigger engines,
they'd push Mach-3.

On 3/13/24 9:46 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 19:03:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>
>> Can a MiG-29 beat an F-35?
>> The Mig-29 was massacred by our 4th Generation fleet. It stands no
>> chance against the F35 which has been massacring all challengers since
>> its introduction to the world.
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/
> https://www.pogo.org/analysis/has-the-pentagon-learned-from-the-f-35-
> debacle
> https://www.businessinsider.com/ongoing-f35-fighter-jet-problems-affect-
> whole-us-military-fleet-2023-1
>
> Mostly the F-35 has been massacring itself. It has joined the walk of
> shame that includes the Zumwalt class:
>
> https://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-largest-destoryer-uss-zumwalt-us-
> navy-ship-biggest-2022-6
>
> and both flavors of the LCS fiasco.
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2023/10/04/can-the-us-navy-save-money-
> by-accepting-the-lcs-as-a-sunk-cost/
>
> Thankfully we still have Arleigh Burke class destroyers and F-16s. Oh, and
> don't forget the B-52s.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Bomber
>
> Lockheed Martin, Northrup Grumman, Bath Iron Works, and the rest of the
> usual suspects rake in billions for shit that doesn't work. The Zumwalt
> was the real laugh when the Navy found they couldn't afford to buy ammo
> for the super high-tech guns. The litoral ships could be taken out by a
> suicidal raghead with a Zodiac.
>
> The US fighting a real war? Give me a break.

It's an East/West diff ... the west loves the idea
of "all-purpose" while east trends more towards
"mission-specific".

"All-purpose" is VERY EXPENSIVE and tends to turn out
a lot of CLUNKERS that aren't good for much of anything.

By not being addicted to the bleeding-edge buzzword tech,
Russian, and to a degree Chinese, planes and ships can
be far cheaper and tougher.

Oh, and I've always worried about "litoral" warships -
too close ... not much time to react to threats and,
as you mentioned, the weapons systems for close-in
oft seem iffy.

About a week ago, a US ship BARELY took out a Houthi
cruse missile in time - had to use its Phalanx and
destroyed the target barely 200' away. NOT encouraging.
I think US/western ships often LOOK better than they
really ARE.

Fortunately Russian ships are also indefensible crap
for the most part - there was a good video, by the
crew, the other day when a Ukrainian drone-torpedo
came in. Let's say they tried to use hand-held
machine-guns but the ultimate result was *BOOM*.

Ukraine has had great success with its "torpedoes",
basically little electric-drive speedboats loaded
with explosives that run low in the water. No
real thermal/sonar/radar signature. The only
weakness is no "AI" - they have to be remotely
human-guided all the way.

CHINESE ships ... they are more of a mystery at
this point. As Xi has not yet started his holy
mission to dominate the Pacific there are not
many encounters - thus little data. My guess is
that they do have higher-tech than the Russians
but it's not clear if they are DEPENDENT on such
tech for survival. The higher the tech, the more
ways to cheat it, the more ways it can break.
The sensible balance seems hard to find.

On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 10:43:10 -0400) it happened Frank <"frank
"@frank.net> wrote in <usse23$10bjj$1@dont-email.me>:

>On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
>> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel before landing back again in Barcelona
>>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what looked like oil
>>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before boarding to see if anything is wrong,
>>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported the incident, and they then did an article about
>>>> airplane
>>>> maintenance.
>>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer (alarm bells) come on...
>>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>>
>>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they didn't
>>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>>
>>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>>> their security controls.
>>
>> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight through a local travel agency.
>> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at that time to where I lived,
>> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
>> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where I would often fly),
>> did not even make much difference in time,
>> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even get a cabin.
>> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
>> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent (or was it President ;-0)
>> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
>> Is there a correlation? 2019:
>> https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
>> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html
>
>Look at the story. It is not political and your time frame is off.

I dunno, trump seems to equal trouble, COVID an example.
The only good thing is that the wants to end the war in Ukraine...
Like he ended the war in Afghanistan...
Those US wars have as only purpose to feed the US Military Industrial Complex with the tax money you payed.
Their products are very much useless, US cannot even go to - and land on the moon anymore.
F35 is a disaster...
US empire is way over the hill...
Good chance their nukes do not work either.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing
>
>It was a simple matter of management putting profits over quality. A
>fault of many corporations.
>
>I had a two day visit to Boeing facilities and labs decades ago and was
>impressed with their attention to detail even endurance tests on
>aircraft in long time service. Sadly this has changed.

On German satellite TV there are sometimes presentations of Airbus that show how they work,
how the planes are build, videos.
Very impressive.
747 (I have flown in it) was a very nice plane.

On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400) it happened Frank <"frank
"@frank.net> wrote in <usshsa$10vh7$1@dont-email.me>:

>On 3/13/2024 11:25 AM, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> Frank wrote on 3/13/2024 10:43 AM:
>>> On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
>>>> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>>>> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from
>>>>>> Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>>>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel
>>>>>> before landing back again in Barcelona
>>>>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>>>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>>>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what
>>>>>> looked like oil
>>>>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>>>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before
>>>>>> boarding to see if anything is wrong,
>>>>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>>>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported
>>>>>> the incident, and they then did an article about airplane
>>>>>> maintenance.
>>>>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer
>>>>>> (alarm bells) come on...
>>>>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>>>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>>>>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they
>>>>> didn't
>>>>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>>>>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>>>>> their security controls.
>>>>
>>>> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight
>>>> through a local travel agency.
>>>> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at
>>>> that time to where I lived,
>>>> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
>>>> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where
>>>> I would often fly),
>>>> did not even make much difference in time,
>>>> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even
>>>> get a cabin.
>>>> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
>>>> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent
>>>> (or was it President ;-0)
>>>> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
>>>> Is there a correlation? 2019:
>>>>   https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
>>>> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html
>>>
>>> Look at the story.  It is not political and your time frame is off.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing
>>>
>>> It was a simple matter of management putting profits over quality.  A
>>> fault of many corporations.
>>>
>>> I had a two day visit to Boeing facilities and labs decades ago and
>>> was impressed with their attention to detail even endurance tests on
>>> aircraft in long time service.  Sadly this has changed.
>>
>>
>> It's a failure of the American-style unfettered capitalist system. I
>> think state-capitalism (socialism) is a better economic system. Canada,
>> China, and most of the rich Nordic European countries are using some
>> form of socialistic economic system
>>
>> China is already the world's largest car producer by country (
>> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/car-production-by-country ), while before 1980, bicycles were the main mode
>> of transportation for the populace in China.
>>
>> Recently China has debuted its new C919 airliner. How long will China
>> take to become the world's largest airliner producer by country?
>>
>> https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/19/business/china-comac-c919-international-debut-intl-hnk/index.html
>>
>> February 20, 2024
>>
>> Beijing’s C919 airliner, a potential rival to Western-made Boeing and
>> Airbus planes, made its first foray outside Chinese territory on Sunday
>> by staging a flyby at the Singapore Airshow.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I would prefer the risk of crashing in an airplane than having a
>socialist government and you are promoting a communist government which
>is far worse.
>
>I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made ;)

Yes and Sputnik beeping from orbit.
Then later they had a space station too.
US, where some religious fanatic club headed by a half moron criminal
is competing for leadership with a half senile pawn of its military complex
should be making cheaper and better products so it can compete,
Imposing sanctions on China and the EU does not make things cheaper for
the poor US citizens, many of those homeless or hardly being able to
pay their bills.

On 3/14/24 12:35 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:42:08 -0400, 68hx.1804 wrote:
>
>> The Russian psychology seems to differ a bit. Instead of trying to
>> ride the technological bleeding edge for most planes they instead
>> trend towards "simple and tough". In short they are built to "get the
>> job done",
>> minus any flair.
>
> It's the AK-47 versus the M16. The AK owes quite a bit to the Garand but
> the gas piston is a straight piece and keeps the dirty gases away from the
> bolt. It's simple to manufacture and for Ivan to keep working. It's
> looseness gives it extreme reliability while maintaining sufficient
> accuracy to get the job done at zhe ranges it is intended for.

The AK-47 was a work of pure genius ... cheap, ultra-reliable,
even 3rd-world dufusses could make use. Not THE most accurate,
but it'll WORK even after you drag it through the mud. Most
fire-fights are fairly close-up anyhow.

It was derived from the very nice SKS from WW2 ... the
answer to NAZI "assault rifles", but built to encourage
better ammo conservation (a *serious* issue).

STILL a zillion of them in use almost 70 years later. Not
"perfect", yet "GENERALLY perfect".

NEVER underestimate Russian design genius.

> People laughed at the stone age vacuum tube technology used in the MiGs
> but a vacuum tube is rad hard. Speaking of which, with all the bullshit I
> wonder if you can still get Svetlana vacuum tubes?

Yep - vacs are EMP resistant. Russia stuck with those
through the cold war. Fighter pilots were, well, expected
to be PILOTS ... not slaves to ultra-tech. The USSR
*could* make general transistors/ICs, but decided to
err on the side of battle endurance.

Hmmm ... I've seen mention of new vac tech ... cold
cathode, very small. A nano-textured cathode that is
keen to emit electrons. Can be flattish or 3D. At
present mostly the "hi-fi" industry is interested,
but that might change.

Mostly I delete 'guns' groups from the headers because
they are not-related/provocative ... but since we're
talking some actual guns here .......