On 3/13/24 10:28 PM, Anonymous wrote:
> 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>> Frank wrote on 3/13/2024 10:43 AM:
>>> On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
>>>> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>>>> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from
>>>>>> Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>>>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel
>>>>>> before landing back again in Barcelona
>>>>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>>>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>>>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what
>>>>>> looked like oil
>>>>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>>>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before
>>>>>> boarding to see if anything is wrong,
>>>>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>>>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper,
>>>>>> reported the incident, and they then did an article about airplane
>>>>>> maintenance.
>>>>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer
>>>>>> (alarm bells) come on...
>>>>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>>>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>>>>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they
>>>>> didn't
>>>>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a
>>>>> parent
>>>>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>>>>> their security controls.
>>>>
>>>> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight
>>>> through a local travel agency.
>>>> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at
>>>> that time to where I lived,
>>>> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
>>>> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat
>>>> (where I would often fly),
>>>> did not even make much difference in time,
>>>> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even
>>>> get a cabin.
>>>> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
>>>> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent
>>>> (or was it President ;-0)
>>>> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
>>>> Is there a correlation? 2019:
>>>>   https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
>>>> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Look at the story.  It is not political and your time frame is off.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing
>>>
>>> It was a simple matter of management putting profits over quality.  A
>>> fault of many corporations.
>>>
>>> I had a two day visit to Boeing facilities and labs decades ago and
>>> was impressed with their attention to detail even endurance tests on
>>> aircraft in long time service.  Sadly this has changed.
>>
>>
>> It's a failure of the American-style unfettered capitalist system.
>
> The government requiring that businesses hire unqualified niggers
> and women is NOT unfettered capitalism.

Wipe yer ass with that white hood and throw
it in the garbage ......

You are of NO USE these days.

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 19:03:24 -0400, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:

>On 3/13/2024 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made
>>
>> Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?
>
>Had to google that one up:
>
>Can a MiG-29 beat an F-35?
>The Mig-29 was massacred by our 4th Generation fleet. It stands no
>chance against the F35 which has been massacring all challengers since
>its introduction to the world.

The F-35 gets all the attention but the F-22 isn't available for export even to our
closest allies and it gets little press.

Swill
--
It's time for a third party. Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

"Forward empowers leaders to find solutions that work in their communities.
We won’t dictate a rigid, top-down policy platform and expect it to work
for all Americans.

"

When Donald Trump was in third grade . . .
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/07/10

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.

<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 19:55:13 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe ? <@.> wrote:

>Frank wrote on 3/13/2024 7:03 PM:
>> On 3/13/2024 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made

.. . .

Well, that's the list. While the Russians got an early lead on jets in the nineteen
fifties, by the early seventies the US had caught up. And by the end of the eighties, the
Russkies were forever behind.

>>> Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?
>>
>> Had to google that one up:
>>
>> Can a MiG-29 beat an F-35?

No, it can't. The F-35's first missile would be taking the Mig down before its pilot ever
became aware it had an opponent.

>This ain't 'Nam. I doubt in a real war with Russia there would be any
>aerial dogfights.

Which is why the Su's better speed and maneuverability are a poor trade for American low
observability and over-the-horizon attack technology. They can target, fire and flee
before the Russian discovers he's been fired on.

>It will be fought with air-to-air missiles and
>ground-to-air missiles. The real reason Nixon had to pull out of 'Nam
>was because North Vietnam shot down 15 B-52s in 11 days with Soviet SA2
>missiles.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II
>
>Only old Soviet bloc countries like Ukraine are still using Mig-29. How
>long have you been living under that rock?

And they're replacing them with American aircraft as quickly as they can be built.

> Russia has new lineup of fifth generation aircraft now

No, they don't. They have "a" new plane which is junk.

Their latest, the SU-57, isn't as capable as the F-35 and 22. It's stealth is poor, it's
radar and software are substandard, it's interfaces are clunky, the planes are unreliable
and unsafe and the cockpits uncomfortable for long flight times.

>(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-generation_fighter#Russia ).

The problem here is that the Russians typically overstate the capabilities of their
equipment as a psych war process. America tends to understate their performance and keep
essential details classified.

If the Russians, with their poorly trained pilots, ever went head to head against us, we'd
be surprised that they couldn't do what they claimed they could and they'd be surprised
that our pilots kept pulling rabbits out of their hats!

>Comparison of F-35 Lightning II and Su-35 BM
>https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Comparison_of_F-35_Lightning_II_and_Su-35_BM

The SU 35 is junk. It's 'superior speed and maneuverability' count for nothing when its
opponent can target, fire and flee before the SU's pilot is ever aware of the opponent.
The American plane's ultra low observability and over-the-horizon attack capability makes
every Russian plane a sitting duck. Even the F-16 in the hands of a capable pilot is a
match for a SU-35.

They have the new SU-57 but it's a semi stealth aircraft far more observable than an F-35.
And while the world's governments have hundreds of those, the Russians have fewer than
half a dozen SU-57s.

Originally intended for production in 2010, that was pushed back to 2015, then 2016 then
2019 but the first production aircraft didn't come out of the hangar until 2020 - and it
crashed before delivery.

India, which was co-financing, dropped out of the project after multiple technical delays
that ran for years but kept sucking up development money.

The end result is a plane that is NOT the equal of the F-35, let alone the F-22, that
Russia can't build more of than a couple a year and worse, can't export because nobody who
can afford its hefty price tag, wants it. They'd rather have F-35s.

Swill
--
It's time for a third party. Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

"Forward empowers leaders to find solutions that work in their communities.
We won’t dictate a rigid, top-down policy platform and expect it to work
for all Americans.

"

When Donald Trump was in third grade . . .
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/07/10

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.

<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On 14 Mar 2024 01:46:39 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 19:03:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>
>> Can a MiG-29 beat an F-35?
>> The Mig-29 was massacred by our 4th Generation fleet. It stands no
>> chance against the F35 which has been massacring all challengers since
>> its introduction to the world.
>
>https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/
>https://www.pogo.org/analysis/has-the-pentagon-learned-from-the-f-35-debacle
>https://www.businessinsider.com/ongoing-f35-fighter-jet-problems-affect-whole-us-military-fleet-2023-1

As long as our adversaries believe that, we're cool!

>The US fighting a real war? Give me a break.

Go ahead if you think you've got enough balls. We'll even let you shoot first.

Swill
--
It's time for a third party. Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

"Forward empowers leaders to find solutions that work in their communities.
We won’t dictate a rigid, top-down policy platform and expect it to work
for all Americans.

"

When Donald Trump was in third grade . . .
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/07/10

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.

<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 19:43:41 -0400, "68hx.1804" <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:

>On 3/13/24 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made
>>
>> Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?
>
> SOME Russian planes ARE good - others are CRAP. Not
> much consistency. Insofar as military aircraft,
> Russia still prefers many-and-cheap to the US mantra
> of "few-and-all-capable".
>
> Russia does make pretty good heavy choppers ...

The trouble is, Russia doesn't have many of any modern aircraft. They've got maybe half a
dozen SU 57s, one usable A-50 while the rest of their air fleet is old stuff numbered in
the dozens.

Swill
--
It's time for a third party. Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

"Forward empowers leaders to find solutions that work in their communities.
We won’t dictate a rigid, top-down policy platform and expect it to work
for all Americans.

"

When Donald Trump was in third grade . . .
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/07/10

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.

<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 10:43:10 -0400) it happened Frank <"frank
> "@frank.net> wrote in <usse23$10bjj$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
>>> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>>> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel before landing back again in Barcelona
>>>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what looked like oil
>>>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before boarding to see if anything is wrong,
>>>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported the incident, and they then did an article about
>>>>> airplane
>>>>> maintenance.
>>>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer (alarm bells) come on...
>>>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>>>
>>>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>>>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they didn't
>>>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>>>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>>>
>>>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>>>> their security controls.
>>>
>>> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight through a local travel agency.
>>> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at that time to where I lived,
>>> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
>>> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where I would often fly),
>>> did not even make much difference in time,
>>> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even get a cabin.
>>> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
>>> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent (or was it President ;-0)
>>> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
>>> Is there a correlation? 2019:
>>> https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
>>> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html
>>
>> Look at the story. It is not political and your time frame is off.
>
> I dunno, trump seems to equal trouble, COVID an example.
> The only good thing is that the wants to end the war in Ukraine...
> Like he ended the war in Afghanistan...
> Those US wars have as only purpose to feed the US Military Industrial Complex with the tax money you payed.
> Their products are very much useless, US cannot even go to - and land on the moon anymore.
> F35 is a disaster...
> US empire is way over the hill...
> Good chance their nukes do not work either.
>

I think Trump has done a good job and that Biden is what would lead to the
fall of the US. With the democrats, the country will tear itself to pieces
due to the extremely destructive woke ideology.

Wokeism can never work in a society, since it is based on constantly
finding new conflict lines across smaller and smaller groups. It is also
inherently racist since value is based on what you are and not what you do
or produce.

But let's all pray fro Trumps come back in november, then the US will
return to its rightful place at the top in no time! =)

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 00:06:07 -0000 (UTC), pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:

>
>A friend of mine used to work for a US carrier, TWA I think, and the technicians called the
>Russian planes AeroFLOP instead of Aeroflot because they were made so poorly although i don't
>recall hearing of many crashes.

Aeroflot flies western made planes from Boeing and Airbus.
<https://www.aeroflot.ru/us-en/about/plane_park>

Swill
--
It's time for a third party. Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

"Forward empowers leaders to find solutions that work in their communities.
We won’t dictate a rigid, top-down policy platform and expect it to work
for all Americans.

"

When Donald Trump was in third grade . . .
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/07/10

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.

<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:42:08 -0400, "68hx.1804" <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:

>On 3/13/24 8:06 PM, pothead wrote:
>> On 2024-03-13, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
>>> On 3/13/24 6:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:48:24 -0400, Frank wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I recall all the great aircraft the Soviet Russians made
>>>>
>>>> Would you rather be flying a MiG-29 or a F-35?
>>>
>>> SOME Russian planes ARE good - others are CRAP. Not
>>> much consistency. Insofar as military aircraft,
>>> Russia still prefers many-and-cheap to the US mantra
>>> of "few-and-all-capable".
>>>
>>> Russia does make pretty good heavy choppers ...
>>
>> A friend of mine used to work for a US carrier, TWA I think, and the technicians called the
>> Russian planes AeroFLOP instead of Aeroflot because they were made so poorly although i don't
>> recall hearing of many crashes.
>
> They don't seem to crash any more than Boeing's or
> Airbus - mile for mile.
>
> The Russian psychology seems to differ a bit. Instead
> of trying to ride the technological bleeding edge for
> most planes they instead trend towards "simple and
> tough". In short they are built to "get the job done",
> minus any flair.
>
> This may be an advantage.
>
> I just can't bring myself to seriously diss Russian
> aircraft. Their mil offerings have always presented
> a huge challenge to western designs and their civvie,
> esp heavy-cargo, offerings DO get the job done even
> if they are old and beaten-up.

*laughs and points*

Russia has no passenger aircraft industry. Aeroflot flies only Boeing and Airbus planes
<https://www.aeroflot.ru/us-en/about/plane_park>

> Russian aeronautical designers are top-rate,

No, they're not. They once were, but that was back in the middle of the last century.

> sometimes genius. The issues seem to arise further
> downstream, at the funding/manufacturing level and
> esp if the State starts demanding too many too quickly.

They can't fund or manufacture. India pulled out of the SU-57 project because it was
delayed nearly a decade and so far, they've only been able to manufacture a bit over half
a dozen.

> "Dedicated mission" - also a difference in psychology.
> Russia tends to build fighters to, well, fight.

The age of dogfighting is long over. Today, your opponent can take you out from hundreds
of miles away.

>Bombers
> to bomb. The West wants "all-purpose" which is rather
> expensive and sometimes produces huge clunkers.

You don't know anything about military tech, do you?

> It was not always thus .... consider the F-104 (one of
> the most beautiful warplanes ever IMHO). Pilots and Mil
> really didn't like it very much,

Which should be the clue that it was junk. The F-104 Starfighter lasted only a brief time
with the USAF before it got cut. Lots of exports though, because Lockheed spent a lot of
money bribing foreign military procurers. It had a terrible safety record and was among
the worst aircraft ever fielded by the US.

>but it had a SPECIAL
> PURPOSE. If the radar suddenly showed a giant blob
> headed west the F-104 was meant to be the spear-head,
> get there REALLY FAST and DO DAMAGE before the wave
> made much progress.

If it didn't crash before it got there. The Germans lost a third of their Starfighter
fleet to accidents before they finally decommissioned them.

>They were the "smart" hypersonic
> missile of their time. Officially Mach-2, but the
> pilots later revealed that, with the bigger engines,
> they'd push Mach-3.

But only with afterburners so they couldn't do that but for minutes at a time and the fuel
consumption was enormous.

Swill
--
It's time for a third party. Not left, not right, https://www.forwardparty.com/

"Forward empowers leaders to find solutions that work in their communities.
We won’t dictate a rigid, top-down policy platform and expect it to work
for all Americans.

"

When Donald Trump was in third grade . . .
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/07/10

Heroyam slava! Glory to the Heroes!

Sláva Ukrajíni! Glory to Ukraine!

Putin tse prezervatyv! Putin is a condom!

Go here to donate to Ukrainian relief.

<https://www2.deloitte.com/ua/uk/pages/registration-forms/help-cities.html>

On 3/13/2024 11:11 PM, 68hx.1804 wrote:
> On 3/13/24 10:28 PM, Anonymous wrote:
>> 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
>>> Frank wrote on 3/13/2024 10:43 AM:
>>>> On 3/13/2024 6:45 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:56:35 +0100) it happened D
>>>>> <nospam@example.net> wrote in
>>>>> <baefe377-09f9-f476-0d38-76aa9f160636@example.net>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I have become a bit more reluctant too after on a flight from
>>>>>>> Barcelona Spain to Amsterdam Netherlands
>>>>>>> an engine caught fire and we had to circle around and dump fuel before
>>>>>>> landing back again in Barcelona
>>>>>>> welcomed by fire trucks and what not.
>>>>>>> People were applauding the captain too.
>>>>>>> I considered myself stupid as I had spotted a big pool of what looked
>>>>>>> like oil
>>>>>>> under one engine, but thought : 'Somebody must have checked that'.
>>>>>>> Normally a captain should at least walk around the plane before boarding
>>>>>>> to see if anything is wrong,
>>>>>>> but these guys just walked straight in and took of.
>>>>>>> When home later on an other flight I called the newspaper, reported the
>>>>>>> incident, and they then did an article about airplane
>>>>>>> maintenance.
>>>>>>> I was sitting all the way in the front when I heard the hammer (alarm
>>>>>>> bells) come on...
>>>>>>> was just reading about Bill and Monica... those days.
>>>>>>> But I am still flying :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Was it a low cost budget airline perhaps? I remember on several
>>>>>> occasions when flying ryanair, that the crew was so stressed they didn't
>>>>>> have any security demonstrations, and once I remember they let a parent
>>>>>> just sit with her infant in her arms without any seatbelt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would not seem implausible that similar stress also makes pilots skip
>>>>>> their security controls.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really do not remember that,. booked it and the return flight through a
>>>>> local travel agency.
>>>>> Had to get a taxi when back, late at night, no public transport at that
>>>>> time to where I lived,
>>>>> got the money for the taxi back from the traval agency.
>>>>> Next few times from here (Netherlands) to the UK I took a boat (where I
>>>>> would often fly),
>>>>> did not even make much difference in time,
>>>>> more freedom, you can walk around, stay on deck if you want, or even get a
>>>>> cabin.
>>>>> But I do think I will look for a non-Boeing flight next time.
>>>>> What comes back in my memory is that just after he became precedent (or was
>>>>> it President ;-0)
>>>>> trump was at Boeing telling how great it was.
>>>>> Is there a correlation? 2019:
>>>>>   https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1QT2MQ/
>>>>> Trump does not care about anything, that attitude sort of spreads...
>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/business/boeing-airbus-world-trade-organization.html
>>>>
>>>> Look at the story.  It is not political and your time frame is off.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downfall:_The_Case_Against_Boeing
>>>>
>>>> It was a simple matter of management putting profits over quality.  A fault
>>>> of many corporations.
>>>>
>>>> I had a two day visit to Boeing facilities and labs decades ago and was
>>>> impressed with their attention to detail even endurance tests on aircraft in
>>>> long time service.  Sadly this has changed.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a failure of the American-style unfettered capitalist system.
>>
>> The government requiring that businesses hire unqualified niggers
>> and women is NOT unfettered capitalism.
>
>
>   Wipe yer ass with that white hood and throw
>   it in the garbage

He's on your side, Nazi. *He* says "woke" and "wokie," too, the same as you.
He's telling you to launder *your* white hood, put it on and wear it proudly
like your fellow KKK.

On 3/11/2024 3:50 PM, 67hx.1803 wrote:
> https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight
>
> Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
> Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.
>
> The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
> experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
> a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.
>
> Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
> ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
> taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
> condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
> The Washington Post reported.
>
> . . .
>
>   Note "technical event" rather than "weather".
>
>   Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
>   into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
>   the ceiling and tossed all around.
>
>   Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?
>
>   The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
>   suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
>   to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.

From UNZ Review:

https://www.unz.com/aanglin/boeing-whistleblower-allegedly-kills-himself-on-day-he-was-supposed-to-testify-in-court/

"You people think we’re exaggerating, but Boeing – the number one
American company that is totally, publicly collapsing with new disasters
almost daily – is also the number one American company that has made a
huge, public scene of the fact that they are replacing their entire
staff with diversity.”

"They’ve publicly said that they want to be the most diverse company in
America. And they’ve been actively firing white men, or otherwise
bullying them out of the company, and replacing them with diversity, for
years now."

Check their diversity page on their website, or click through some of
these videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AosiFvIzZMA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txy8qImLgbU&t=30s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYJoaVB5qzg&t=5s

Snake Baker contributed to this article.
--
You voted for student loan forgiveness. You got demographic replacement
and World War 3.

"Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324(a) defines several distinct offenses related to
aliens. Subsection 1324(a)(1)(i)-(v) prohibits alien smuggling, domestic
transportation of unauthorized aliens, concealing or harboring
unauthorized aliens, encouraging or inducing unauthorized aliens to
enter the United States, and engaging in a conspiracy or aiding and
abetting any of the preceding acts. Subsection 1324(a)(2) prohibits
bringing or attempting to bring unauthorized aliens to the United States
in any manner whatsoever, even at a designated port of entry. Subsection
1324(a)(3)."

“Western values mean three things: migration, LGBTQ, and war." Viktor Orban

https://www.globalgulag.us

On 2024-03-14, Lucas McCain <Lucas_McCain@tutanato.com> wrote:
> On 3/11/2024 3:50 PM, 67hx.1803 wrote:
>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight
>>
>> Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
>> Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.
>>
>> The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
>> experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
>> a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.
>>
>> Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
>> ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
>> taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
>> condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
>> The Washington Post reported.
>>
>> . . .
>>
>>   Note "technical event" rather than "weather".
>>
>>   Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
>>   into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
>>   the ceiling and tossed all around.
>>
>>   Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?
>>
>>   The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
>>   suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
>>   to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.
>
> From UNZ Review:
>
> https://www.unz.com/aanglin/boeing-whistleblower-allegedly-kills-himself-on-day-he-was-supposed-to-testify-in-court/
>
> "You people think we’re exaggerating, but Boeing – the number one
> American company that is totally, publicly collapsing with new disasters
> almost daily – is also the number one American company that has made a
> huge, public scene of the fact that they are replacing their entire
> staff with diversity.”
>
> "They’ve publicly said that they want to be the most diverse company in
> America. And they’ve been actively firing white men, or otherwise
> bullying them out of the company, and replacing them with diversity, for
> years now."
>
>
> Check their diversity page on their website, or click through some of
> these videos.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AosiFvIzZMA
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txy8qImLgbU&t=30s
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYJoaVB5qzg&t=5s
>

> Snake Baker contributed to this article.

This is what happens when a major company gets entrenched in the DEI crap and wastes money on fluff
rather than on training and process for their employees.

Couple that with hiring based upon DEI, even if in part, instead of the most qualified and now you
have a disaster waiting to happen.

Did you know Boeing was using Dawn dish washing liquid to lubricate door seals?

<https://www.businessinsider.com/faa-boeing-spirit-aerosystems-dawn-soap-door-seal-737-max-2024-3>

God knows what is holding the engines on. Maybe Gorilla Tape? Zip ties?

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On 13 Mar 2024, "68hx.1804" <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> posted some
news:WTKdndHm9MS0DG_4nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@earthlink.com:

> On 3/14/24 12:35 AM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:42:08 -0400, 68hx.1804 wrote:
>>
>>> The Russian psychology seems to differ a bit. Instead of trying
>>> to ride the technological bleeding edge for most planes they
>>> instead trend towards "simple and tough". In short they are
>>> built to "get the job done",
>>> minus any flair.
>>
>> It's the AK-47 versus the M16. The AK owes quite a bit to the Garand
>> but the gas piston is a straight piece and keeps the dirty gases away
>> from the bolt. It's simple to manufacture and for Ivan to keep
>> working. It's looseness gives it extreme reliability while
>> maintaining sufficient accuracy to get the job done at zhe ranges it
>> is intended for.
>
> The AK-47 was a work of pure genius ... cheap, ultra-reliable,
> even 3rd-world dufusses could make use. Not THE most accurate,
> but it'll WORK even after you drag it through the mud. Most
> fire-fights are fairly close-up anyhow.

I've personally seen one put a round completely through a 10" tree branch.

> It was derived from the very nice SKS from WW2 ... the
> answer to NAZI "assault rifles", but built to encourage
> better ammo conservation (a *serious* issue).
>
> STILL a zillion of them in use almost 70 years later. Not
> "perfect", yet "GENERALLY perfect".
>
> NEVER underestimate Russian design genius.

Not sold on their BEV model styling.

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/BXNbov/s1/amber-ev.webp

>> People laughed at the stone age vacuum tube technology used in the
>> MiGs but a vacuum tube is rad hard. Speaking of which, with all the
>> bullshit I wonder if you can still get Svetlana vacuum tubes?
>
> Yep - vacs are EMP resistant. Russia stuck with those
> through the cold war. Fighter pilots were, well, expected
> to be PILOTS ... not slaves to ultra-tech. The USSR
> *could* make general transistors/ICs, but decided to
> err on the side of battle endurance.
>
> Hmmm ... I've seen mention of new vac tech ... cold
> cathode, very small. A nano-textured cathode that is
> keen to emit electrons. Can be flattish or 3D. At
> present mostly the "hi-fi" industry is interested,
> but that might change.
>
> Mostly I delete 'guns' groups from the headers because
> they are not-related/provocative ... but since we're
> talking some actual guns here .......

On 3/14/24 1:38 PM, pothead wrote:
> On 2024-03-14, Lucas McCain <Lucas_McCain@tutanato.com> wrote:
>> On 3/11/2024 3:50 PM, 67hx.1803 wrote:
>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight
>>>
>>> Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
>>> Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.
>>>
>>> The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
>>> experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
>>> a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.
>>>
>>> Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
>>> ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
>>> taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
>>> condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
>>> The Washington Post reported.
>>>
>>> . . .
>>>
>>>   Note "technical event" rather than "weather".
>>>
>>>   Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
>>>   into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
>>>   the ceiling and tossed all around.
>>>
>>>   Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?
>>>
>>>   The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
>>>   suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
>>>   to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.
>>
>> From UNZ Review:
>>
>> https://www.unz.com/aanglin/boeing-whistleblower-allegedly-kills-himself-on-day-he-was-supposed-to-testify-in-court/
>>
>> "You people think we’re exaggerating, but Boeing – the number one
>> American company that is totally, publicly collapsing with new disasters
>> almost daily – is also the number one American company that has made a
>> huge, public scene of the fact that they are replacing their entire
>> staff with diversity.”
>>
>> "They’ve publicly said that they want to be the most diverse company in
>> America. And they’ve been actively firing white men, or otherwise
>> bullying them out of the company, and replacing them with diversity, for
>> years now."
>>
>>
>> Check their diversity page on their website, or click through some of
>> these videos.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AosiFvIzZMA
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txy8qImLgbU&t=30s
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYJoaVB5qzg&t=5s
>>
>
>> Snake Baker contributed to this article.
>
> This is what happens when a major company gets entrenched in the DEI crap and wastes money on fluff
> rather than on training and process for their employees.
>
> Couple that with hiring based upon DEI, even if in part, instead of the most qualified and now you
> have a disaster waiting to happen.
>
> Did you know Boeing was using Dawn dish washing liquid to lubricate door seals?
>
> <https://www.businessinsider.com/faa-boeing-spirit-aerosystems-dawn-soap-door-seal-737-max-2024-3>
>
> God knows what is holding the engines on. Maybe Gorilla Tape? Zip ties?

Heh, heh ... our premier aerospace corp .........

BTW, Gorilla Tape glue goes all soft and gooey in the heat.
Stick with good old 3M duck tape.

Dawn soap ??? MIGHT be ok ... but MIGHT have longer-term
interactions with the gasket material and DOES attract
moisture. They probably didn't check.

In any case, the disaster seems to be HERE. What's AirBus
stock going for these days ....

Is Boeing still trying to make that new space capsule ?
I sure as hell wouldn't fly in it. Check under the seats
for an empty bottle of Dawn guys :-)

The "death dive" from the other day though, ain't gonna
fly on any new-model Boeing planes EVER.

I

On 3/14/24 3:34 PM, joerg wrote:
> On 13 Mar 2024, "68hx.1804" <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> posted some
> news:WTKdndHm9MS0DG_4nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>
>> On 3/14/24 12:35 AM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:42:08 -0400, 68hx.1804 wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Russian psychology seems to differ a bit. Instead of trying
>>>> to ride the technological bleeding edge for most planes they
>>>> instead trend towards "simple and tough". In short they are
>>>> built to "get the job done",
>>>> minus any flair.
>>>
>>> It's the AK-47 versus the M16. The AK owes quite a bit to the Garand
>>> but the gas piston is a straight piece and keeps the dirty gases away
>>> from the bolt. It's simple to manufacture and for Ivan to keep
>>> working. It's looseness gives it extreme reliability while
>>> maintaining sufficient accuracy to get the job done at zhe ranges it
>>> is intended for.
>>
>> The AK-47 was a work of pure genius ... cheap, ultra-reliable,
>> even 3rd-world dufusses could make use. Not THE most accurate,
>> but it'll WORK even after you drag it through the mud. Most
>> fire-fights are fairly close-up anyhow.
>
> I've personally seen one put a round completely through a 10" tree branch.

If you use AP bullets ... and it depends on the tree.

The 7.62x39 has almost exactly the same power as
the 30-30. In accordance with the theme, the
cartridge is "just powerful enough" for the
intended combat situations.

>> It was derived from the very nice SKS from WW2 ... the
>> answer to NAZI "assault rifles", but built to encourage
>> better ammo conservation (a *serious* issue).
>>
>> STILL a zillion of them in use almost 70 years later. Not
>> "perfect", yet "GENERALLY perfect".
>>
>> NEVER underestimate Russian design genius.
>
> Not sold on their BEV model styling.
>
> https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/BXNbov/s1/amber-ev.webp

Find a pic of the E-van that APPLE was planning
to make :-)

On 2024-03-14, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
> On 3/14/24 1:38 PM, pothead wrote:
>> On 2024-03-14, Lucas McCain <Lucas_McCain@tutanato.com> wrote:
>>> On 3/11/2024 3:50 PM, 67hx.1803 wrote:
>>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/dozens-injured-after-boeing-787-plunges-during-flight
>>>>
>>>> Dozens of people were injured on Monday when a LATAM Airlines
>>>> Boeing 787 suddenly plunged mid-flight.
>>>>
>>>> The flight from Sydney, Australia, to Auckland, New Zealand,
>>>> experienced “a technical event during the flight which caused
>>>> a strong movement,” the airline said in a statement.
>>>>
>>>> Approximately 50 people were injured in the incident, with
>>>> ten passengers and three cabin crew members needing to be
>>>> taken to the hospital. One patient was listed in “serious
>>>> condition,” while the rest had mild to moderate injuries,
>>>> The Washington Post reported.
>>>>
>>>> . . .
>>>>
>>>>   Note "technical event" rather than "weather".
>>>>
>>>>   Witnesses say it basically, very abruptly, went
>>>>   into a sharp nose-dive. People were smashed into
>>>>   the ceiling and tossed all around.
>>>>
>>>>   Hmmm ... Daylight-Savings-Time computer glitch ?
>>>>
>>>>   The escalating number of Boeing incidents might also
>>>>   suggest a campaign of deliberate sabotage - intended
>>>>   to destroy a major aircraft/aerospace manufacturer.
>>>
>>> From UNZ Review:
>>>
>>> https://www.unz.com/aanglin/boeing-whistleblower-allegedly-kills-himself-on-day-he-was-supposed-to-testify-in-court/
>>>
>>> "You people think we’re exaggerating, but Boeing – the number one
>>> American company that is totally, publicly collapsing with new disasters
>>> almost daily – is also the number one American company that has made a
>>> huge, public scene of the fact that they are replacing their entire
>>> staff with diversity.”
>>>
>>> "They’ve publicly said that they want to be the most diverse company in
>>> America. And they’ve been actively firing white men, or otherwise
>>> bullying them out of the company, and replacing them with diversity, for
>>> years now."
>>>
>>>
>>> Check their diversity page on their website, or click through some of
>>> these videos.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AosiFvIzZMA
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txy8qImLgbU&t=30s
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYJoaVB5qzg&t=5s
>>>
>>
>>> Snake Baker contributed to this article.
>>
>> This is what happens when a major company gets entrenched in the DEI crap and wastes money on fluff
>> rather than on training and process for their employees.
>>
>> Couple that with hiring based upon DEI, even if in part, instead of the most qualified and now you
>> have a disaster waiting to happen.
>>
>> Did you know Boeing was using Dawn dish washing liquid to lubricate door seals?
>>
>> <https://www.businessinsider.com/faa-boeing-spirit-aerosystems-dawn-soap-door-seal-737-max-2024-3>
>>
>> God knows what is holding the engines on. Maybe Gorilla Tape? Zip ties?
>
>
> Heh, heh ... our premier aerospace corp .........
>
> BTW, Gorilla Tape glue goes all soft and gooey in the heat.
> Stick with good old 3M duck tape.

That it does.

> Dawn soap ??? MIGHT be ok ... but MIGHT have longer-term
> interactions with the gasket material and DOES attract
> moisture. They probably didn't check.

Dawn is good for some things but removes ANY and ALL lubricants from whatever it is used on.
That's why it is used on animals who get stuck in an oil spill.
That's usually a good thing, but for rubber seals?
Maybe not so much.
I use 303 or a silicone spray on the seals that are on my cars.
Works great.

> In any case, the disaster seems to be HERE. What's AirBus
> stock going for these days ....

For the year it looks like it has gone from a flat $30 to $43.00 per share .

> Is Boeing still trying to make that new space capsule ?
> I sure as hell wouldn't fly in it. Check under the seats
> for an empty bottle of Dawn guys :-)

LOL.
If Boeing can't manage to put all the mounting bolts on a door I would not trust them at all at
this point.
I mean this is kind of basic.
You have 6 holes.
You need 6 bolts.

> The "death dive" from the other day though, ain't gonna
> fly on any new-model Boeing planes EVER.

That must have been terrifying.
With all of the electronics and fly by wire going on in planes these days, I'm not even sure if
flying by sight and manually is even possible.

And even though these systems have on board backups in the case of failure, their must be a SPOF
9single point of failure) somewhere in the design that did not allow the backups to take over.

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On 3/14/24 5:35 PM, pothead wrote:
> On 2024-03-14, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
>> On 3/14/24 1:38 PM, pothead wrote:

>>> <https://www.businessinsider.com/faa-boeing-spirit-aerosystems-dawn-soap-door-seal-737-max-2024-3>
>>>
>>> God knows what is holding the engines on. Maybe Gorilla Tape? Zip ties?
>>
>>
>> Heh, heh ... our premier aerospace corp .........
>>
>> BTW, Gorilla Tape glue goes all soft and gooey in the heat.
>> Stick with good old 3M duck tape.
>
> That it does.
>
>> Dawn soap ??? MIGHT be ok ... but MIGHT have longer-term
>> interactions with the gasket material and DOES attract
>> moisture. They probably didn't check.
>
> Dawn is good for some things but removes ANY and ALL lubricants from whatever it is used on.
> That's why it is used on animals who get stuck in an oil spill.
> That's usually a good thing, but for rubber seals?
> Maybe not so much.
> I use 303 or a silicone spray on the seals that are on my cars.
> Works great.

Yep, there are excellent silicone-based lubes ... ones
that won't degrade the gaskets OR corrode aluminum.

Boeing probably could have scored some at Lowes ... but
clearly didn't bother.

The CORROSION angle is the most worrying. Soaps DO
attract moisture and sometimes some other vapors
containing acids. Kinda useless if the gasket survives
but the whole mounting frame suddenly blows out the
side of the aircraft at 37,000 feet.

>> In any case, the disaster seems to be HERE. What's AirBus
>> stock going for these days ....
>
>
> For the year it looks like it has gone from a flat $30 to $43.00 per share .
>
>
>> Is Boeing still trying to make that new space capsule ?
>> I sure as hell wouldn't fly in it. Check under the seats
>> for an empty bottle of Dawn guys :-)
>
> LOL.
> If Boeing can't manage to put all the mounting bolts on a door I would not trust them at all at
> this point.
> I mean this is kind of basic.
> You have 6 holes.
> You need 6 bolts.

Yea ... one bolt, two bolts, three bolts, oops - there's
a 'diversity' lecture at 3pm !

>> The "death dive" from the other day though, ain't gonna
>> fly on any new-model Boeing planes EVER.
>
> That must have been terrifying.
> With all of the electronics and fly by wire going on in planes these days, I'm not even sure if
> flying by sight and manually is even possible.

I don't think there's much - maybe ANY - manual control
linkages in the new planes.

Found this :

.. . .

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/20963/how-are-fly-by-wire-airliners-controlled-in-case-of-complete-electrical-failure

For the complete electrical failure in the aircraft, the
following systems have to fail:

The onboard power generation system, usually a synchronous
generator has to fail in all the engines.
The APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) has to fail.
The RAT (Ram Air Turbine) should fail to deploy.
The batteries and static inverters should fail (this won't
help in controlling the aircraft, just added for sake
of completeness).

The probability of this happening is very very low, and
can be discounted. It is more probable that some other
system (for e.g, hydraulics) fail before this happening.
So far, to the best of my knowledge, no complete power
loss has been reported in any fly by wire aircraft.

.. . .

Well - it DID happen. Fortunately the glitch was
short-lived, but if they'd been at any lower
altitude ....

> And even though these systems have on board backups in the case of failure, their must be a SPOF
> 9single point of failure) somewhere in the design that did not allow the backups to take over.

They've now made 'em so smart they're stupid.

Gimme a DC-3.

On 2024-03-14, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
> On 3/14/24 5:35 PM, pothead wrote:
>> On 2024-03-14, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
>>> On 3/14/24 1:38 PM, pothead wrote:
>
>>>> <https://www.businessinsider.com/faa-boeing-spirit-aerosystems-dawn-soap-door-seal-737-max-2024-3>
>>>>
>>>> God knows what is holding the engines on. Maybe Gorilla Tape? Zip ties?
>>>
>>>
>>> Heh, heh ... our premier aerospace corp .........
>>>
>>> BTW, Gorilla Tape glue goes all soft and gooey in the heat.
>>> Stick with good old 3M duck tape.
>>
>> That it does.
>>
>>> Dawn soap ??? MIGHT be ok ... but MIGHT have longer-term
>>> interactions with the gasket material and DOES attract
>>> moisture. They probably didn't check.
>>
>> Dawn is good for some things but removes ANY and ALL lubricants from whatever it is used on.
>> That's why it is used on animals who get stuck in an oil spill.
>> That's usually a good thing, but for rubber seals?
>> Maybe not so much.
>> I use 303 or a silicone spray on the seals that are on my cars.
>> Works great.
>
> Yep, there are excellent silicone-based lubes ... ones
> that won't degrade the gaskets OR corrode aluminum.
>
> Boeing probably could have scored some at Lowes ... but
> clearly didn't bother.

Pretty much.
The DEI hires probably were too lazy and found a bottle of Dawn in the break area so why not?

> The CORROSION angle is the most worrying. Soaps DO
> attract moisture and sometimes some other vapors
> containing acids. Kinda useless if the gasket survives
> but the whole mounting frame suddenly blows out the
> side of the aircraft at 37,000 feet.

Yep.
Some chemicals while excellent for their intended purpose have disastrous effects when use on the
wrong surfaces and sometimes due to chemical reactions.

Chlorine bleach ie Clorox is a great disinfectant and cleaner. So is ammonia. Mix the 2 together
and you have just created chloramine gas. Quite nasty stuff.

>>> In any case, the disaster seems to be HERE. What's AirBus
>>> stock going for these days ....
>>
>>
>> For the year it looks like it has gone from a flat $30 to $43.00 per share .
>>
>>
>>> Is Boeing still trying to make that new space capsule ?
>>> I sure as hell wouldn't fly in it. Check under the seats
>>> for an empty bottle of Dawn guys :-)
>>
>> LOL.
>> If Boeing can't manage to put all the mounting bolts on a door I would not trust them at all at
>> this point.
>> I mean this is kind of basic.
>> You have 6 holes.
>> You need 6 bolts.
>
>
> Yea ... one bolt, two bolts, three bolts, oops - there's
> a 'diversity' lecture at 3pm !

Yea!
Maybe they should turn it into a Dr. Seuss book for the DEi hires?
Or a comic strip?
A RAP song?

>
>>> The "death dive" from the other day though, ain't gonna
>>> fly on any new-model Boeing planes EVER.
>>
>> That must have been terrifying.
>> With all of the electronics and fly by wire going on in planes these days, I'm not even sure if
>> flying by sight and manually is even possible.
>
> I don't think there's much - maybe ANY - manual control
> linkages in the new planes.

That's what I was thinking.

> Found this :
>
> . . .
>
> https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/20963/how-are-fly-by-wire-airliners-controlled-in-case-of-complete-electrical-failure
>
> For the complete electrical failure in the aircraft, the
> following systems have to fail:
>
> The onboard power generation system, usually a synchronous
> generator has to fail in all the engines.
> The APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) has to fail.
> The RAT (Ram Air Turbine) should fail to deploy.
> The batteries and static inverters should fail (this won't
> help in controlling the aircraft, just added for sake
> of completeness).

Very interesting.
Thanks.

> The probability of this happening is very very low, and
> can be discounted. It is more probable that some other
> system (for e.g, hydraulics) fail before this happening.
> So far, to the best of my knowledge, no complete power
> loss has been reported in any fly by wire aircraft.

This is classic engineer speak to explain why they buried some part deep in the bowels of an engine.
This part will never fail so you will never need to replace it.
Sure.
Ask any mechanic / technician about that one :)

> . . .
>
> Well - it DID happen. Fortunately the glitch was
> short-lived, but if they'd been at any lower
> altitude ....
>
>
>> And even though these systems have on board backups in the case of failure, their must be a SPOF
>> 9single point of failure) somewhere in the design that did not allow the backups to take over.
>
> They've now made 'em so smart they're stupid.

Yep.
Wait until AI becomes more involved.
Ouch.

> Gimme a DC-3.

Yep.
Even if the pilot drops dead if there is someone onboard who is able to follow directions to the
letter, maybe an engineer or other technical person, at least they have a chance of actually
landing the plane. A slim chance but at least a chance of being talked down by the flight
controllers and other pilots. So, push this button, what do you see? etc..

When a computerized fly by wire plane loses it's brains, it's over with.

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On 3/14/24 7:27 PM, pothead wrote:
> On 2024-03-14, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:

>
>> Gimme a DC-3.
>
> Yep.
> Even if the pilot drops dead if there is someone onboard who is able to follow directions to the
> letter, maybe an engineer or other technical person, at least they have a chance of actually
> landing the plane. A slim chance but at least a chance of being talked down by the flight
> controllers and other pilots. So, push this button, what do you see? etc..

LONG ago I actually, maybe not-quite-legally, flew one
of those for a short time from the right seat while the
pilot went back to check something. Oh well, he was the
cap and said "fly it" so his word was law. All mechanical
linkages ... you'd get biker arms after awhile fer sure :-)

Super-solid aircraft. The old mil pilots liked their C47s,
and many came in riddled like swiss cheese with bullet
holes and not only landed but were patched-up in a day
or two for more service. There IS a company that takes
those, adds about three feet for balance, and installs
turbo-prop engines. Still heavily used in the 2nd/3rd
world where there's nothing but crappy improvised
runways. 80+ years and STILL relevant.

> When a computerized fly by wire plane loses it's brains, it's over with.

And, just off NZ the other day, they came within a
proverbial hairs-breadth of exactly that. Bet the
ambulance-chasers are lining up three deep ...

Still wonder if it was a DST bug, given the date.
Some unprotected divide-by-zero error perhaps ...
more common than you'd think. Blacked-out EVERYTHING,
and that's insanely bad. Bet China knows about that
bug ... and how to trigger it .....

The whole fleet needs to be taken down and a
microscope put up the operating-systems ass
to find out WHAT that was and if the same
problem exists elsewhere.

On 2024-03-15, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
> On 3/14/24 7:27 PM, pothead wrote:
>> On 2024-03-14, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Gimme a DC-3.
>>
>> Yep.
>> Even if the pilot drops dead if there is someone onboard who is able to follow directions to the
>> letter, maybe an engineer or other technical person, at least they have a chance of actually
>> landing the plane. A slim chance but at least a chance of being talked down by the flight
>> controllers and other pilots. So, push this button, what do you see? etc..
>
> LONG ago I actually, maybe not-quite-legally, flew one
> of those for a short time from the right seat while the
> pilot went back to check something. Oh well, he was the
> cap and said "fly it" so his word was law. All mechanical
> linkages ... you'd get biker arms after awhile fer sure :-)

Really kool !

> Super-solid aircraft. The old mil pilots liked their C47s,
> and many came in riddled like swiss cheese with bullet
> holes and not only landed but were patched-up in a day
> or two for more service. There IS a company that takes
> those, adds about three feet for balance, and installs
> turbo-prop engines. Still heavily used in the 2nd/3rd
> world where there's nothing but crappy improvised
> runways. 80+ years and STILL relevant.

It's amazing how long they have lasted.

>> When a computerized fly by wire plane loses it's brains, it's over with.
>
> And, just off NZ the other day, they came within a
> proverbial hairs-breadth of exactly that. Bet the
> ambulance-chasers are lining up three deep ...

Incredible.
I heard some people were seriously injured.
That sux.

> Still wonder if it was a DST bug, given the date.
> Some unprotected divide-by-zero error perhaps ...
> more common than you'd think. Blacked-out EVERYTHING,
> and that's insanely bad. Bet China knows about that
> bug ... and how to trigger it .....

I have been saying stuff like this for years.
So now we are finally discovering that Chinese spy devices are installed in cranes unloading cargo.
What a surprise!
Not!

I have long suspected that malware has been embedded in our electronic devices for years.
Call it a modern day Trojan horse.

And we have a retard POTUS who is allowing spy balloons to hover over military bases.
what could possibly go wrong?
Yea, right.

> The whole fleet needs to be taken down and a
> microscope put up the operating-systems ass
> to find out WHAT that was and if the same
> problem exists elsewhere.

I know quite a bit about how the FAA works and the way they keep track and lock down processes that
need to be followed by the book.
And this goes back to the 70's where it was all paper and pencil for the most part.
These days it's all computerized with bar codes and such.

Every single step in assembling, servicing, or updating an aircraft is strictly monitored right
down to the type of screws being used to hold the tray on the seat back.
And the airlines are under extremely strict regulations to document literally everything done to an
aircraft and who did it and when it was done.
So there is no way they don't know who screwed up.
Not possible.

They are covering for DEI.

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 05:46:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> Yes and Sputnik beeping from orbit.

Sputnik was good. It really spiced up grade school science classes in the
ensuing panic to create a generation of STEM people or whatever they
called it back then. It offset the periodic trips to the hallway to crouch
down and kiss your butt goodbye in preparation for the imminent nuclear
attack.

The enthusiasm wore off when it was realized exporting technology was
cheaper than developing it yourself.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 05:34:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> 747 (I have flown in it) was a very nice plane.

I have fond memories of flying business class in 747s when there was a
staircase to the cozy lounge on the upper deck. The last time I flew
commercial I debated whether taking a bus would be more comfortable.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 01:54:48 -0400, 68hx.1804 wrote:

> The AK-47 was a work of pure genius ... cheap, ultra-reliable,
> even 3rd-world dufusses could make use. Not THE most accurate,
> but it'll WORK even after you drag it through the mud. Most
> fire-fights are fairly close-up anyhow.

It will do 3-5 MOA which is acceptable for its purpose. That's as good as
most run of the mill battle rifles. I played around with a Mosin Nagant
and found handloading Prvi Partizan brass did wonders for it compared to
Soviet bloc milsurp but I don't know if better ammo would improve the AK.

I've been reading Pavlichenko's memoirs. She did okay with a 3-line. I'd
not heard that term before but a 'line' is 0.10 so it's the Russian
designation for .30 caliber. Simo Häyhä liked his too although he didn't
care much for optics. They fogged up when you're playing in the snow.

On 3/14/24 8:45 PM, pothead wrote:
> On 2024-03-15, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
>> On 3/14/24 7:27 PM, pothead wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-14, 68hx.1804 <68hx.1803@g5t6x.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Gimme a DC-3.
>>>
>>> Yep.
>>> Even if the pilot drops dead if there is someone onboard who is able to follow directions to the
>>> letter, maybe an engineer or other technical person, at least they have a chance of actually
>>> landing the plane. A slim chance but at least a chance of being talked down by the flight
>>> controllers and other pilots. So, push this button, what do you see? etc..
>>
>> LONG ago I actually, maybe not-quite-legally, flew one
>> of those for a short time from the right seat while the
>> pilot went back to check something. Oh well, he was the
>> cap and said "fly it" so his word was law. All mechanical
>> linkages ... you'd get biker arms after awhile fer sure :-)
>
> Really kool !

Well ... not quite like landing a 747 at a fog-shrouded
airport during a tornado or anything from the movies ....

>> Super-solid aircraft. The old mil pilots liked their C47s,
>> and many came in riddled like swiss cheese with bullet
>> holes and not only landed but were patched-up in a day
>> or two for more service. There IS a company that takes
>> those, adds about three feet for balance, and installs
>> turbo-prop engines. Still heavily used in the 2nd/3rd
>> world where there's nothing but crappy improvised
>> runways. 80+ years and STILL relevant.
>
> It's amazing how long they have lasted.

That's what you get with the old American Spirit and
build 'em RIGHT.

SOME firm should realize that there's STILL a market
for near-identical aircraft and build some C47-1/2 ...

Oh, and RIVETS may pop, but the entire seam doesn't
shred like with welded/glued construction. Sometimes
Old School really IS better.

>>> When a computerized fly by wire plane loses it's brains, it's over with.
>>
>> And, just off NZ the other day, they came within a
>> proverbial hairs-breadth of exactly that. Bet the
>> ambulance-chasers are lining up three deep ...
>
> Incredible.
> I heard some people were seriously injured.
> That sux.

I heard 25 injured - including a few with quite
severe injuries.

Pilot said that everything just blacked out and
he had zero control.

Of course somewhere on board was a guy who kinda
glanced up from whatever he was reading and calmly
wondered what all this shit was about with just
a little annoyance :-) The Chuck Yeager's and
Neil Armstrong's and Capt. Sully's don't freak out -
just work the problem. These are the ones we want.

>> Still wonder if it was a DST bug, given the date.
>> Some unprotected divide-by-zero error perhaps ...
>> more common than you'd think. Blacked-out EVERYTHING,
>> and that's insanely bad. Bet China knows about that
>> bug ... and how to trigger it .....
>
> I have been saying stuff like this for years.
> So now we are finally discovering that Chinese spy devices are installed in cranes unloading cargo.
> What a surprise!
> Not!

I posted about the cranes. VERY clever way to get lots
of useful info from a source nobody would expect.
All the container numbers, from where, to where and
even the weights. Such cranes are used in big ports
worldwide.

> I have long suspected that malware has been embedded in our electronic devices for years.
> Call it a modern day Trojan horse.

Winders is loaded with spyware for M$ and Feds - and likely
lots of spyware for the PRC and Russia. It's the most vulnerable
OS that ever was - a total clusterfuck at this point ... nobody
knows how it all works. Allegedly the last old guy who DID was
in on Win2K ... and then he retired. Even thus, there were NSA
keys in the Win2K registry, kinda plainly named too .....

> And we have a retard POTUS who is allowing spy balloons to hover over military bases.
> what could possibly go wrong?
> Yea, right.

LOVE how they did NOTHING for a good day as it hovered
over our main ICBM sites .......

>> The whole fleet needs to be taken down and a
>> microscope put up the operating-systems ass
>> to find out WHAT that was and if the same
>> problem exists elsewhere.
>
> I know quite a bit about how the FAA works and the way they keep track and lock down processes that
> need to be followed by the book.

The FAA may be between the proverbial rock and hard place.
IF you pull all modern Boeing's from the skies you create
a HUGE, HYPER-Expensive, transportation crisis. The gain/loss
equation may favor leaving the things in the air.

> And this goes back to the 70's where it was all paper and pencil for the most part.
> These days it's all computerized with bar codes and such.

Computerized design was a huge boon - but also created the
potential for huge losses. Remember the "Pentium Bug" which
affected the math chip part ... I wonder how many planes
bridges and buildings were designed before anyone discovered
that little problem ???

> Every single step in assembling, servicing, or updating an aircraft is strictly monitored right
> down to the type of screws being used to hold the tray on the seat back.

SUPPOSED to be ... yet Boeing says it can't produce any
such docs ........

> And the airlines are under extremely strict regulations to document literally everything done to an
> aircraft and who did it and when it was done.
> So there is no way they don't know who screwed up.
> Not possible.

YES possible if :

1) Nobody kept good records
2) Good records were mysteriously shredded and BleachBitted.

Hence the new CRIMINAL investigations.

It'll all be Fred The Intern's fault, bet on it ...

> They are covering for DEI.

You know I'm not much down with the "racist" angles
on things .... however "DEI" can create problems when
seriously under-qualified people "supervise" other
under-qualified ... the whole checks-n-balances thing
goes belly-up for the most stupid political reasons.
Then things fall flaming from the skies.

Makes CHINA happy as hell though, fer sure :-)

On a sunny day (15 Mar 2024 01:42:56 GMT) it happened rbowman
<bowman@montana.com> wrote in <l5hncvF8jqkU3@mid.individual.net>:

>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 05:34:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> 747 (I have flown in it) was a very nice plane.
>
>I have fond memories of flying business class in 747s when there was a
>staircase to the cozy lounge on the upper deck. The last time I flew
>commercial I debated whether taking a bus would be more comfortable.

Ah yes, I boarded the 747 with an old friend, met at the airport,
we were heading towars the same destination,
long time no see, he had reserved a seat on the upper deck,
wanted to show me (I was booked on the lower deck)
but the stewardes did not allow me to climb those stairs when boarding :-)

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 05:34:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> 747 (I have flown in it) was a very nice plane.
>
> I have fond memories of flying business class in 747s when there was a
> staircase to the cozy lounge on the upper deck. The last time I flew
> commercial I debated whether taking a bus would be more comfortable.
>

I do like the modern business class trend of being able to sleep flat. But
that is still not enough to make me voluntarily travel in a metal tube for
10-13 hours.

Sadly my wife loves travelling so she forces me on a long trip every 2
years or so. =( I try to trick her into getting a dog, so I'd have 15
years of peace, but not working. =(