On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 9:01:34 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 9/24/2021 9:45 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:37:40 -0400, Michael Trew
> > <michae...@att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/23/2021 8:59 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 00:16:46 -0400, Michael Trew
> >>> <michae...@att.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 9/21/2021 10:24 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>> I guess if you don't mind standing on rickety scaffolding 30' in the air,
> >>>>> a blade guard would certainly seem to be an inconvenience. ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'll keep mine intact.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, the old common sense tells me not to put my fingers near the shiny
> >>>> spinning sharp hunk of wood-gnawing metal.. as it also gnaws body parts ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> If it weren't broken, I would have kept it intact, but it kept getting
> >>>> gaumed up and wouldn't retract.
> >>>
> >>> I would have spent the $100 on a HF SMCS. I've had one for years, not
> >>> that gets much use these days. It's purpose is now outside carpentry.
> >>> It works and I don't care if it gets wet.
> >>>
> >>
> >> What is that, harbor freight saw?
> >
> > Yes, HF == Harbor Freight
> >
> > Something like this but I bought mine fifteenish years ago.
> > <https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/power-saws/miter/10-in-sliding-compound-miter-saw-61971.html>
> >
> I thought you had the articulating Bosch. Some one on here indicated
> that dust collection on the Bosch was hideous.

That may have been me. I don't recall that I said that it was "hideous" but
I do recall posting a link to the mod that I employed to improve it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRlZGApo6vA

Don refers to the stock dust collection as "not overly effective". Is
"overly effective" actually a good thing? Somehow it sounds like
something you *wouldn't* want a thing to be. Like using a shotgun
to kill a spider. Effective, sure, but maybe just a bit too much. ;-)

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:fuOdnVxPI9U4b9H8nZ2dnUU7-RvNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>
> Well, common sense is not always with us when we are working near
> shiny spinning sharp things. Unless you are GOD or a Super Hero you
> are capable of making a mistake regardless of how much training or how
> smart you think you are.
>
> I will say the number reason that most woodworkers have accidents on
> their table saws is because they did not have a guard on their saws.
> Unfortunately 99.999999999999999% of table saw guards hindered rather
> than helped.
> Some cuts are impossible to make with a guard mounted. And that
> brings us to the solution to mistakes, SawStop.

I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
guard.

I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in half
or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm taking 1/2"
off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the guard.

Puckdropper

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:44:09 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>news:fuOdnVxPI9U4b9H8nZ2dnUU7-RvNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>
>> Well, common sense is not always with us when we are working near
>> shiny spinning sharp things. Unless you are GOD or a Super Hero you
>> are capable of making a mistake regardless of how much training or how
>> smart you think you are.
>>
>> I will say the number reason that most woodworkers have accidents on
>> their table saws is because they did not have a guard on their saws.
>> Unfortunately 99.999999999999999% of table saw guards hindered rather
>> than helped.
>> Some cuts are impossible to make with a guard mounted. And that
>> brings us to the solution to mistakes, SawStop.
>
>I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
>woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
>however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
>guard.
>
>I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
>saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in half
>or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm taking 1/2"
>off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the guard.

That's an issue with the design of guards. They shouldn't just flop
down on the workpiece--that should be an option but there should be a
way to _easily_ lock them at a height that allows clearance.

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:44:09 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>news:fuOdnVxPI9U4b9H8nZ2dnUU7-RvNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>
>> Well, common sense is not always with us when we are working near
>> shiny spinning sharp things. Unless you are GOD or a Super Hero you
>> are capable of making a mistake regardless of how much training or how
>> smart you think you are.
>>
>> I will say the number reason that most woodworkers have accidents on
>> their table saws is because they did not have a guard on their saws.
>> Unfortunately 99.999999999999999% of table saw guards hindered rather
>> than helped.
>> Some cuts are impossible to make with a guard mounted. And that
>> brings us to the solution to mistakes, SawStop.
>
>I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
>woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
>however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
>guard.

How many of those (either group) do dados?

>I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
>saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in half
>or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm taking 1/2"
>off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the guard.

I don't either, mainly because it's a PITA to mount. The riving knife
isn't any better (poorly implemented afterthought).

On 9/26/2021 2:44 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:fuOdnVxPI9U4b9H8nZ2dnUU7-RvNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>
>> Well, common sense is not always with us when we are working near
>> shiny spinning sharp things. Unless you are GOD or a Super Hero you
>> are capable of making a mistake regardless of how much training or how
>> smart you think you are.
>>
>> I will say the number reason that most woodworkers have accidents on
>> their table saws is because they did not have a guard on their saws.
>> Unfortunately 99.999999999999999% of table saw guards hindered rather
>> than helped.
>> Some cuts are impossible to make with a guard mounted. And that
>> brings us to the solution to mistakes, SawStop.
>
> I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
> woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
> however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
> guard.
>
> I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
> saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in half
> or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm taking 1/2"
> off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the guard.
>
> Puckdropper
>

I do not use a gurard on my TS. Does 9.5 Fingers count? But then
again, SawStop.

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 19:26:46 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 9/26/2021 2:44 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:fuOdnVxPI9U4b9H8nZ2dnUU7-RvNnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, common sense is not always with us when we are working near
>>> shiny spinning sharp things. Unless you are GOD or a Super Hero you
>>> are capable of making a mistake regardless of how much training or how
>>> smart you think you are.
>>>
>>> I will say the number reason that most woodworkers have accidents on
>>> their table saws is because they did not have a guard on their saws.
>>> Unfortunately 99.999999999999999% of table saw guards hindered rather
>>> than helped.
>>> Some cuts are impossible to make with a guard mounted. And that
>>> brings us to the solution to mistakes, SawStop.
>>
>> I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
>> woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
>> however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
>> guard.
>>
>> I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
>> saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in half
>> or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm taking 1/2"
>> off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the guard.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
>
>I do not use a gurard on my TS. Does 9.5 Fingers count? But then
>again, SawStop.

But your wiener has a chunk out of it.

krw@notreal.com wrote in
news:5kp4lg109u8ssicti9v69mdgo2jojb150n@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 19:26:46 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>I do not use a gurard on my TS. Does 9.5 Fingers count? But then
>>again, SawStop.
>
> But your wiener has a chunk out of it.
>

That's how you know it's done. It's split on the end and stuff is coming
out.

Puckdropper

krw@notreal.com wrote in
news:2832lglhci7l5crl68t8jle6kc32uogoo4@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:44:09 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
>>woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
>>however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
>>guard.
>
> How many of those (either group) do dados?

My guess is it's probably the same in both groups. It's just the
guard-users do it for every cut they can, the guard-don't-users just
don't.
>>I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
>>saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in
>>half or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm
>>taking 1/2" off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the
>>guard.
>
> I don't either, mainly because it's a PITA to mount. The riving knife
> isn't any better (poorly implemented afterthought).

Every time I go to Ikea, I'm impressed by something. Some item I'm
looking at is well thought out, cheap, and very functional.

I wish they would do something like that for table saw guards. They've
already got the cheap part, it's just the other two that are missing.

Puckdropper

On 9/28/2021 4:29 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Every time I go to Ikea, I'm impressed by something. Some item I'm
> looking at is well thought out, cheap, and very functional.
>
> I wish they would do something like that for table saw guards. They've
> already got the cheap part, it's just the other two that are missing.
>
> Puckdropper

I feel the same way, until I have to figure out how to assemble that
IKEA item, then I change my mind..

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 08:29:34 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>krw@notreal.com wrote in
>news:2832lglhci7l5crl68t8jle6kc32uogoo4@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:44:09 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
>>>woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
>>>however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
>>>guard.
>>
>> How many of those (either group) do dados?
>
>My guess is it's probably the same in both groups. It's just the
>guard-users do it for every cut they can, the guard-don't-users just
>don't.
>
>>>I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
>>>saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in
>>>half or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm
>>>taking 1/2" off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the
>>>guard.
>>
>> I don't either, mainly because it's a PITA to mount. The riving knife
>> isn't any better (poorly implemented afterthought).
>
>Every time I go to Ikea, I'm impressed by something. Some item I'm
>looking at is well thought out, cheap, and very functional.

I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
lasting a year, much less 20.
>
>I wish they would do something like that for table saw guards. They've
>already got the cheap part, it's just the other two that are missing.

It doesn't seem that it would be all that hard, starting from scratch.
I guess they make them just to satisfy their lawyers.

On 9/28/2021 2:43 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
> fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
> their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
> lasting a year, much less 20.

When I worked for a contractor, we had to assemble an IKEA kitchen..
keep in mind, it was nearly a 100 year old house, and nothing was plumb.
It was absolute hell.. he said "IKEA kitchen.. NEVER AGAIN, unless
it's a new construction home. I absolutely loathe assembling their
furniture.

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:20:29 AM UTC-4, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 9/28/2021 2:43 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
> > fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
> > their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
> > lasting a year, much less 20.
> When I worked for a contractor, we had to assemble an IKEA kitchen..
> keep in mind, it was nearly a 100 year old house, and nothing was plumb.
> It was absolute hell.. he said "IKEA kitchen.. NEVER AGAIN, unless
> it's a new construction home. I absolutely loathe assembling their
> furniture.

Wouldn't that same problem exist with *any* kitchen install in a 100 YO
house?

I'm pretty sure that all cabinets, custom built or stock from any company,
are (should be) square and plumb. Proper measurements, shims and filler
strips are essentials.

BTW...there is no guarantee that "new construction" is plumb either. That's a
dangerous assumption to make, unless you built the place yourself (correctly).

On 9/30/2021 10:46 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:20:29 AM UTC-4, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 9/28/2021 2:43 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>> I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
>>> fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
>>> their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
>>> lasting a year, much less 20.
>> When I worked for a contractor, we had to assemble an IKEA kitchen..
>> keep in mind, it was nearly a 100 year old house, and nothing was plumb.
>> It was absolute hell.. he said "IKEA kitchen.. NEVER AGAIN, unless
>> it's a new construction home. I absolutely loathe assembling their
>> furniture.
>
> Wouldn't that same problem exist with *any* kitchen install in a 100 YO
> house?
>
> I'm pretty sure that all cabinets, custom built or stock from any company,
> are (should be) square and plumb. Proper measurements, shims and filler
> strips are essentials.
>
> BTW...there is no guarantee that "new construction" is plumb either. That's a
> dangerous assumption to make, unless you built the place yourself (correctly).

True, it should always be plumb, but standard pre-built cabinets are far
more forgiving to shim and install in an out of square house, rather
than trying to build complex MDF cabinets that interlock and keep them
plumb.

The IKEA cabinets would have gone together far easier if the walls were
plumb to start with.. IIRC (it's been almost a decade), we had to build
some of them "on the wall", as opposed to just zipping in and shimming
pre-built cabinets -- and none of the holes were coming close to lining up.

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:46:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:20:29 AM UTC-4, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 9/28/2021 2:43 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> > I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
>> > fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
>> > their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
>> > lasting a year, much less 20.
>> When I worked for a contractor, we had to assemble an IKEA kitchen..
>> keep in mind, it was nearly a 100 year old house, and nothing was plumb.
>> It was absolute hell.. he said "IKEA kitchen.. NEVER AGAIN, unless
>> it's a new construction home. I absolutely loathe assembling their
>> furniture.
>
>Wouldn't that same problem exist with *any* kitchen install in a 100 YO
>house?
>
>I'm pretty sure that all cabinets, custom built or stock from any company,
>are (should be) square and plumb. Proper measurements, shims and filler
>strips are essentials.
>
>BTW...there is no guarantee that "new construction" is plumb either. That's a
>dangerous assumption to make, unless you built the place yourself (correctly).

I'd give a 100yo house a better chance at being plumb and square.

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:46:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:20:29 AM UTC-4, Michael Trew wrote:
> >> On 9/28/2021 2:43 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> > I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
> >> > fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
> >> > their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
> >> > lasting a year, much less 20.
> >> When I worked for a contractor, we had to assemble an IKEA kitchen..
> >> keep in mind, it was nearly a 100 year old house, and nothing was plumb.
> >> It was absolute hell.. he said "IKEA kitchen.. NEVER AGAIN, unless
> >> it's a new construction home. I absolutely loathe assembling their
> >> furniture.
> >
> >Wouldn't that same problem exist with *any* kitchen install in a 100 YO
> >house?
> >
> >I'm pretty sure that all cabinets, custom built or stock from any company,
> >are (should be) square and plumb. Proper measurements, shims and filler
> >strips are essentials.
> >
> >BTW...there is no guarantee that "new construction" is plumb either. That's a
> >dangerous assumption to make, unless you built the place yourself (correctly).
> I'd give a 100yo house a better chance at being plumb and square.

How many 100 YO houses have you worked in?

Maybe when it was first built it was "built better". (I assume that is what you
are implying) However, 100 years later and a lot of that care has been overtaken
by nature.

I've worked in many older homes with full sized hardwood timbers and amazing
craftsmanship. Still, the ravages of nature and the laws of gravity have had a lot
of time to do their thing.

On 9/30/2021 10:04 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 9/30/2021 10:46 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:20:29 AM UTC-4, Michael Trew wrote:
>>> On 9/28/2021 2:43 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
>>>> fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
>>>> their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
>>>> lasting a year, much less 20.
>>> When I worked for a contractor, we had to assemble an IKEA kitchen..
>>> keep in mind, it was nearly a 100 year old house, and nothing was plumb.
>>> It was absolute hell.. he said "IKEA kitchen.. NEVER AGAIN, unless
>>> it's a new construction home. I absolutely loathe assembling their
>>> furniture.
>>
>> Wouldn't that same problem exist with *any* kitchen install in a 100 YO
>> house?
>>
>> I'm pretty sure that all cabinets, custom built or stock from any
>> company,
>> are (should be) square and plumb. Proper measurements, shims and filler
>> strips are essentials.
>>
>> BTW...there is no guarantee that "new construction" is plumb either.
>> That's a
>> dangerous assumption to make, unless you built the place yourself
>> (correctly).
>
> True, it should always be plumb, but standard pre-built cabinets are far
> more forgiving to shim and install in an out of square house, rather
> than trying to build complex MDF cabinets that interlock and keep them
> plumb.

I do not in particular care for Ikea and mostly just because of the
store lay out. I don't go to a store for the entertainment value. I
want to get in and get out.

With that behind me, I have never ever installed kitchen cabinets where
everything worked like the drawings. Prefab cabinets should be built
prior to install. And then units are normally attached to each other
prior to attaching to the walls. You do not want to try to attach each
individual cabinet to the final spot and then add another cabinet and so on.

>
> The IKEA cabinets would have gone together far easier if the walls were
> plumb to start with.. IIRC (it's been almost a decade), we had to build
> some of them "on the wall", as opposed to just zipping in and shimming
> pre-built cabinets -- and none of the holes were coming close to lining up.

And again, the wall being out of plumb should have had no bearing on
ease of assembly.

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:45:41 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:46:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:20:29 AM UTC-4, Michael Trew wrote:
>> >> On 9/28/2021 2:43 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >> > I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
>> >> > fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
>> >> > their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
>> >> > lasting a year, much less 20.
>> >> When I worked for a contractor, we had to assemble an IKEA kitchen..
>> >> keep in mind, it was nearly a 100 year old house, and nothing was plumb.
>> >> It was absolute hell.. he said "IKEA kitchen.. NEVER AGAIN, unless
>> >> it's a new construction home. I absolutely loathe assembling their
>> >> furniture.
>> >
>> >Wouldn't that same problem exist with *any* kitchen install in a 100 YO
>> >house?
>> >
>> >I'm pretty sure that all cabinets, custom built or stock from any company,
>> >are (should be) square and plumb. Proper measurements, shims and filler
>> >strips are essentials.
>> >
>> >BTW...there is no guarantee that "new construction" is plumb either. That's a
>> >dangerous assumption to make, unless you built the place yourself (correctly).
>> I'd give a 100yo house a better chance at being plumb and square.
>
>How many 100 YO houses have you worked in?
>
>Maybe when it was first built it was "built better". (I assume that is what you
>are implying) However, 100 years later and a lot of that care has been overtaken
>by nature.

Perhaps not but I've seen runout of a wall close to a foot. Tile or
wood looks like crap. Nothing can be done either. They don't make
triangular tile.

>I've worked in many older homes with full sized hardwood timbers and amazing
>craftsmanship. Still, the ravages of nature and the laws of gravity have had a lot
>of time to do their thing.

On 9/30/2021 1:45 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:46:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:20:29 AM UTC-4, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>> On 9/28/2021 2:43 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
>>>>> fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
>>>>> their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
>>>>> lasting a year, much less 20.
>>>> When I worked for a contractor, we had to assemble an IKEA kitchen..
>>>> keep in mind, it was nearly a 100 year old house, and nothing was plumb.
>>>> It was absolute hell.. he said "IKEA kitchen.. NEVER AGAIN, unless
>>>> it's a new construction home. I absolutely loathe assembling their
>>>> furniture.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't that same problem exist with *any* kitchen install in a 100 YO
>>> house?
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure that all cabinets, custom built or stock from any company,
>>> are (should be) square and plumb. Proper measurements, shims and filler
>>> strips are essentials.
>>>
>>> BTW...there is no guarantee that "new construction" is plumb either. That's a
>>> dangerous assumption to make, unless you built the place yourself (correctly).
>> I'd give a 100yo house a better chance at being plumb and square.
>
> How many 100 YO houses have you worked in?
>
> Maybe when it was first built it was "built better". (I assume that is what you
> are implying) However, 100 years later and a lot of that care has been overtaken
> by nature.
>
> I've worked in many older homes with full sized hardwood timbers and amazing
> craftsmanship. Still, the ravages of nature and the laws of gravity have had a lot
> of time to do their thing.

Yep, everything settles over time.