On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:49:57 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:26:22 AM UTC-5, Brian Welch wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 12:07:33 AM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:02:26 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> > > > On 2/23/2022 10:22 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:32:12 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > > > >> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
> > > > >> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> > > > >>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > > > >>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
> > > > >>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
> > > > >>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
> > > > >>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
> > > > >>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
> > > > >>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
> > > > >>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
> > > > >>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
> > > > >>>> a bench table/bench.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
> > > > >>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
> > > > >>>> clamps with no issue.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
> > > > >>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
> > > > >>>> all when making long cuts.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
> > > > >>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
> > > > >>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
> > > > >>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Bob
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
> > > > >> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
> > > > >> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
> > > > >> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > The shaper origin is very effective and efficient for cutting perfect dog holes. I just draw a crosshair on the surface for where it is to be located, then visually place the hole with the origin on that crosshair. Using a 1/2" straight cut router bit, the shaper will cut the hole in 18mm baltic birch in about 5 seconds.
> > > > This is true BUT.... You should consider if you will use the bench top
> > > > like many use the MFT table. Others depend on the dog holes to be
> > > > "PRECICELY" located so that they can use dogs to square up stock and cut
> > > > with a track saw. Aligning visually will not guarantee precise placement.
> > > My "X marks the spot" description was meant for non-critical dog holes. As an example, I wanted to drill 16 20mm holes on a new horizontal spoilboard for the shaper origin workbench. They could be off a fraction and it would not matter. Pencil and ruler were the quick and dirty approach. I just drilled a hole, then copy and move it to the next "X" on the screen. For implementing a precise layout like an MFT top, I definitely agree with your advice.
> > > >
> > > > Others use the dogs and track to make precise 90 and 45 degree cuts with
> > > > their track saws.
> > > >
> > > > I would advise to draw the holes in Sketchup, precisely, and convert to
> > > > an SVG file. Ultimately that would probably be faster as you would not
> > > > have to mark the top and or alight the Origin on those marks for each of
> > > > those holes.
> > > >
> > > > BUT If you do not intend to use the holes to align stock or a track,
> > > > close is probably good enough.
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought.
> > Going back to the OP, I have one of the larger Centipedes...While I don't use it that often, I have used it successfully. It comes with attachments that support/permit 2bys as cross members. I generally prefer a rigid table, but have no knocks on the Centipede...
> That answers my original question. Thanks.
>
> Next question: Do the attachments stay attached?
>
> IOW, do you always have to "find" them when you want to use
> them or do they fold up with the Centipede?
The attachments are loose. This enables you to use them on any of the posts.. The unit comes with a bag to help keep everything together. But it is very lightweight, not very durable...

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 9:06:09 AM UTC-5, Brian Welch wrote:
> On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:49:57 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 8:26:22 AM UTC-5, Brian Welch wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 12:07:33 AM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:02:26 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> > > > > On 2/23/2022 10:22 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:32:12 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal..com wrote:
> > > > > >> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
> > > > > >> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> > > > > >>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > > > > >>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw..
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
> > > > > >>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
> > > > > >>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
> > > > > >>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
> > > > > >>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
> > > > > >>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
> > > > > >>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
> > > > > >>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
> > > > > >>>> a bench table/bench.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
> > > > > >>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
> > > > > >>>> clamps with no issue.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
> > > > > >>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
> > > > > >>>> all when making long cuts.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
> > > > > >>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
> > > > > >>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
> > > > > >>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Bob
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
> > > > > >> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
> > > > > >> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
> > > > > >> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The shaper origin is very effective and efficient for cutting perfect dog holes. I just draw a crosshair on the surface for where it is to be located, then visually place the hole with the origin on that crosshair.. Using a 1/2" straight cut router bit, the shaper will cut the hole in 18mm baltic birch in about 5 seconds.
> > > > > This is true BUT.... You should consider if you will use the bench top
> > > > > like many use the MFT table. Others depend on the dog holes to be
> > > > > "PRECICELY" located so that they can use dogs to square up stock and cut
> > > > > with a track saw. Aligning visually will not guarantee precise placement.
> > > > My "X marks the spot" description was meant for non-critical dog holes. As an example, I wanted to drill 16 20mm holes on a new horizontal spoilboard for the shaper origin workbench. They could be off a fraction and it would not matter. Pencil and ruler were the quick and dirty approach. I just drilled a hole, then copy and move it to the next "X" on the screen. For implementing a precise layout like an MFT top, I definitely agree with your advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > Others use the dogs and track to make precise 90 and 45 degree cuts with
> > > > > their track saws.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would advise to draw the holes in Sketchup, precisely, and convert to
> > > > > an SVG file. Ultimately that would probably be faster as you would not
> > > > > have to mark the top and or alight the Origin on those marks for each of
> > > > > those holes.
> > > > >
> > > > > BUT If you do not intend to use the holes to align stock or a track,
> > > > > close is probably good enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just a thought.
> > > Going back to the OP, I have one of the larger Centipedes...While I don't use it that often, I have used it successfully. It comes with attachments that support/permit 2bys as cross members. I generally prefer a rigid table, but have no knocks on the Centipede...
> > That answers my original question. Thanks.
> >
> > Next question: Do the attachments stay attached?
> >
> > IOW, do you always have to "find" them when you want to use
> > them or do they fold up with the Centipede?
> The attachments are loose. This enables you to use them on any of the posts. The unit comes with a bag to help keep everything together. But it is very lightweight, not very durable...

Point of clarification...I was referring to the bag as not being very durable.
It does come with a handful of plastic hold downs to help keep things in place.

On 2/23/2022 5:19 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:54:16 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/22/2022 9:32 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
>>> <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
>>>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
>>>>>
>>>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
>>>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
>>>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
>>>>>
>>>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
>>>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
>>>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
>>>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
>>>>> a bench table/bench.
>>>>>
>>>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
>>>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
>>>>> clamps with no issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
>>>>>
>>>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
>>>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
>>>>> all when making long cuts.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
>>>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
>>>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
>>>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
>>>
>>> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
>>> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
>>> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
>>
>>
>> Yes, the Paulk benches are very rigid. I build mine from 1/2" "Baltic
>> birch LIKE" 4x8 plywood from Lowes. Painted/primed on both sides IIRC.
>> It was inexpensive and I will say not nearly as tough as Baltic Birch.
>> BUT I abuse it and it has held up well so far, 4 years and counting.
>>
>> Building it is a job, especially of you populate the top with "dog"
>> holes. Because I have a Festool MFT table I chose to not drill all of
>> those holes.
>
> That raises an important point. The torsion box sides have to be
> thought out with the dog holes in mind. A dog hole through a box edge
> probably wouldn't work so well.

I bought the plans a few years back and IIRC they take this into
consideration.
If you are considering the Paulk design.

If you are going to do the regular torsion grid under the top you need
to do a lot of planing.

Something to consider with the traditional torsion box design that has a
top and bottom. If you drill dog holes and accidentally drop something
into one of those holes it will be difficult to retrieve.

FWIW things, in particular screws, drop through the MFT table holes all
the time.
Since I use that table to add slides to drawers I have to use a screw
container as those screws are particularly vulnerable to fall through.

The Paulk design is very much like a torsion box design. BUT it only
has bracing crossing from side to side and on the ends. The long sides
are only on the outside. And then it is open all the way through both
directions.

I sometimes put my long clamps inside.

Take a look as his latest plans/videos at least for ideas. He has
changed the elongated cut outs from having half circle ends to squares
corners. Drawers might be a consideration if it will be permanently set
up..

On 2/23/2022 5:11 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:02:16 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/23/2022 10:22 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:32:12 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
>>>> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
>>>>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
>>>>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
>>>>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
>>>>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
>>>>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
>>>>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
>>>>>> a bench table/bench.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
>>>>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
>>>>>> clamps with no issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
>>>>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
>>>>>> all when making long cuts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
>>>>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
>>>>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
>>>>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
>>>> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
>>>> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
>>>> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
>>>
>>> The shaper origin is very effective and efficient for cutting perfect dog holes. I just draw a crosshair on the surface for where it is to be located, then visually place the hole with the origin on that crosshair. Using a 1/2" straight cut router bit, the shaper will cut the hole in 18mm baltic birch in about 5 seconds.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is true BUT.... You should consider if you will use the bench top
>> like many use the MFT table. Others depend on the dog holes to be
>> "PRECICELY" located so that they can use dogs to square up stock and cut
>> with a track saw. Aligning visually will not guarantee precise placement.
>>
>> Others use the dogs and track to make precise 90 and 45 degree cuts with
>> their track saws.
>>
>> I would advise to draw the holes in Sketchup, precisely, and convert to
>> an SVG file. Ultimately that would probably be faster as you would not
>> have to mark the top and or alight the Origin on those marks for each of
>> those holes.
>
> I bought one of these in 2017 when it was a one-time tool.
>
> <https://www.woodpeck.com/hole-boring-jig-2019.html>
>

That will work too! You do want the accuracy if you can. Swingman,
remember him? He bought the Parf set up and built his Paulk work bench.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/jigs-guides-and-fixtures/110468-mk-ii-parf-guide-drilling-system?item=58B3996&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=CjwKCAiA9tyQBhAIEiwA6tdCrDIzYfaBCWbsfR87Sh5PKzOiJ4Q_LSIMSfk_QLj3PE7vTcK6ecgaRhoCp9sQAvD_BwE

Your Origin would be easier to use for this operation. There will be no
cutting and moving a jig to a new location. And no pushing to plunge.

That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
to begin as a different location for more holes.

On 2/23/2022 11:07 PM, Bob Davis wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:02:26 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/23/2022 10:22 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:32:12 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
>>>> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
>>>>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
>>>>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
>>>>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
>>>>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
>>>>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
>>>>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
>>>>>> a bench table/bench.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
>>>>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
>>>>>> clamps with no issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
>>>>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
>>>>>> all when making long cuts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
>>>>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
>>>>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
>>>>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
>>>> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
>>>> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
>>>> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
>>>
>>> The shaper origin is very effective and efficient for cutting perfect dog holes. I just draw a crosshair on the surface for where it is to be located, then visually place the hole with the origin on that crosshair. Using a 1/2" straight cut router bit, the shaper will cut the hole in 18mm baltic birch in about 5 seconds.
>> This is true BUT.... You should consider if you will use the bench top
>> like many use the MFT table. Others depend on the dog holes to be
>> "PRECICELY" located so that they can use dogs to square up stock and cut
>> with a track saw. Aligning visually will not guarantee precise placement.
>
> My "X marks the spot" description was meant for non-critical dog holes. As an example, I wanted to drill 16 20mm holes on a new horizontal spoilboard for the shaper origin workbench. They could be off a fraction and it would not matter. Pencil and ruler were the quick and dirty approach. I just drilled a hole, then copy and move it to the next "X" on the screen. For implementing a precise layout like an MFT top, I definitely agree with your advice.

There is nothing wrong with your method for "close is good enough"!

I used the exact same method for the mortises needed mid field in the
MDO sides of the Murphy bed that I built last summer.

Aligning the Origin at a known/marked starting spot vs. a distance from
the the x/y intersection is soooo much easier.

On 2/24/2022 7:26 AM, Brian Welch wrote:
> On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 12:07:33 AM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 1:02:26 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2022 10:22 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:32:12 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
>>>>> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
>>>>>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
>>>>>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
>>>>>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
>>>>>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
>>>>>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
>>>>>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
>>>>>>> a bench table/bench.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
>>>>>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
>>>>>>> clamps with no issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
>>>>>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
>>>>>>> all when making long cuts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
>>>>>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
>>>>>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
>>>>>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
>>>>> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
>>>>> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
>>>>> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> The shaper origin is very effective and efficient for cutting perfect dog holes. I just draw a crosshair on the surface for where it is to be located, then visually place the hole with the origin on that crosshair. Using a 1/2" straight cut router bit, the shaper will cut the hole in 18mm baltic birch in about 5 seconds.
>>> This is true BUT.... You should consider if you will use the bench top
>>> like many use the MFT table. Others depend on the dog holes to be
>>> "PRECICELY" located so that they can use dogs to square up stock and cut
>>> with a track saw. Aligning visually will not guarantee precise placement.
>> My "X marks the spot" description was meant for non-critical dog holes. As an example, I wanted to drill 16 20mm holes on a new horizontal spoilboard for the shaper origin workbench. They could be off a fraction and it would not matter. Pencil and ruler were the quick and dirty approach. I just drilled a hole, then copy and move it to the next "X" on the screen. For implementing a precise layout like an MFT top, I definitely agree with your advice.
>>>
>>> Others use the dogs and track to make precise 90 and 45 degree cuts with
>>> their track saws.
>>>
>>> I would advise to draw the holes in Sketchup, precisely, and convert to
>>> an SVG file. Ultimately that would probably be faster as you would not
>>> have to mark the top and or alight the Origin on those marks for each of
>>> those holes.
>>>
>>> BUT If you do not intend to use the holes to align stock or a track,
>>> close is probably good enough.
>>>
>>> Just a thought.
> Going back to the OP, I have one of the larger Centipedes...While I don't use it that often, I have used it successfully. It comes with attachments that support/permit 2bys as cross members. I generally prefer a rigid table, but have no knocks on the Centipede...

How does or how would the Cenepede work on an irregular, non flat
surface? Will all those legs compensate or telegraph the floor/ground
irregularities to the top working area?

On 2/23/2022 4:55 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:20:14 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/22/2022 6:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 5:21:55 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/22/2022 12:48 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 12:59:40 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you breakdown the sheets on the assembly table? i.e. How do you support the cut?
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't the Centipede just a bunch of "points"?
>>>>>
>>>>> A full sheet of foam insulation might work, but a couple of 2' x 4's wouldn't, would they?
>>>> I used to use foam insulation but that got messy and it broke up. I use
>>>> 3 narrow, 4" wide, 1/2" x 8' plywood strips between the layers of
>>>> plywood. When the top sheet is cut and removed I move the strips to
>>>> below the next/top sheet.
>>>
>>> 3? When I've used strips, it's usually one at each edge and one on both
>>> sides of the cut. (assuming a cut in the middle-ish of the sheet) Fully
>>> supported, just like when using foam.
>>
>> Yes 3. Similar to you but the middle is under the cut. It provides
>> support on both sides of the cut and I like to think helps eliminate
>> any possibility tear out on the bottom side of the cut. I quite often
>> let that cut be the finish cut. So one less spacer to deal with.
>>
>> Certainly foam is easy to use but I have gone through several sheets of
>> the stuff in the past 12 or so years. That stuff adds up considering
>> its price to scrap plywood.
>
> Can't you just bust it up and throw it in the trash? I do that with
> the mountains of foam inserts they pack tools in.

That is how I got rid of the sheets/chunks of sheets. But I cut way too
much plywood for the packing foam inserts inventory to keep up.

Last year I did a kitchen re-do. Approximately 30 new doors with white
oak panels, and approximately 30, 1/2" Baltic birch drawers with and
1/4" birch bottoms.
Off the top of my head, 10 sheets of plywood.

The our Murphy bed and tower cabinets with a boat load of adjustable
shelves for the towers Off the top of my head, 8 sheets of plywood and MDO.

Then a 4 unit hutch, all sheet goods except for the frames of the 8
doors and drawer fronts and front and back face frames and trim.
Probably 8 sheets.

When I buy sheet goods they go directly to the Paulk style work bench.
Then I used to put the foam sheet in between the top sheet good and
the one below. The foam sheets get pretty tattered just moving them
down below the top sheet and the next sheet with out actually removing
the top sheet and placing the foam sheet and then replacing the top sheet.

I much prefer the sturdy thin plywood scraps.

>>
>> AND do not use the foam board with the metallic film on one side.
>> Those panels begin to warp with the first cut.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> As I'm sure you know, one big advantage of foam is there's no need to
>>> set up runners between cuts. Just drop the panel on the foam and cut
>>> wherever you want. Currently, I'm using the foam shown below. Doesn't
>>> make as much of a mess. I cut the sheet in half and then trimmed about
>>> an inch off so I have room for the clamps. Easy to store and easy to
>>> throw in the trailer or back of the van.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying it's better than your method. To each his own. ;-)
>>
>> Absolutely less trouble and easier to use but I cut a lot and the stuff
>> does not hold up long for me.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/f7a2ffd8-b89d-4bf2-b93d-aca1bf0db0d8/svn/owens-corning-foam-board-insulation-13ngx-64_145.jpg
>>
>> About 2~3 years ago I bought 2 sheets of this stuff that is 2" thick.
>> That made me take a double take on the price.
>
> $34 at HD. Last time I bought some it was more like $5. It's been a
> while. ;-)

Yeah! LOL

>
>> BUT I had a use for the thick stuff. My wife covered both with a linen
>> like cloth and I hung both side by side on a wall in her sewing room.
>> She now has an 8'x8' wall to place her quilt pieces on to when designing
>> and laying out the pieces. The pieces stick to the cloth and if
>> necessary she can push a pin through the fabric into the foam to
>> securely hold the piece in place.
>
> It probably deadens sound some too. Panels could be part of the
> interior decoration. You could show them on HGTV and make a bundle.
>>

One could only wish. She has 3 sewing machines and all will run by
themselves. Meaning it is not unusual for at least two to be running
with just her up there. And she has a sewing group of 3 other ladies so
all the machines are going.

All hard surfaces for the walls/ceilings and floors. The foam design
center is half of one of the short walls. The biggest machine travels
along a 11' long track so its noise is ever changing. The other two
machines are on a table that is against the short wall along the
staircase. Their noise goes over the short wall and down the hard
surfaced stairs to our tile floors down stairs.

As far as showing of this foam board wall, not my idea. I got the idea
from one of her sewing buddies and I am certain that she did not come up
with the idea herself.

On 2/24/2022 5:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:27:46 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/23/2022 5:19 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:54:16 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:32 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
>>>>> <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
>>>>>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
>>>>>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
>>>>>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
>>>>>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
>>>>>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
>>>>>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
>>>>>>> a bench table/bench.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
>>>>>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
>>>>>>> clamps with no issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
>>>>>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
>>>>>>> all when making long cuts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
>>>>>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
>>>>>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
>>>>>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
>>>>> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
>>>>> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the Paulk benches are very rigid. I build mine from 1/2" "Baltic
>>>> birch LIKE" 4x8 plywood from Lowes. Painted/primed on both sides IIRC.
>>>> It was inexpensive and I will say not nearly as tough as Baltic Birch.
>>>> BUT I abuse it and it has held up well so far, 4 years and counting.
>>>>
>>>> Building it is a job, especially of you populate the top with "dog"
>>>> holes. Because I have a Festool MFT table I chose to not drill all of
>>>> those holes.
>>>
>>> That raises an important point. The torsion box sides have to be
>>> thought out with the dog holes in mind. A dog hole through a box edge
>>> probably wouldn't work so well.
>>
>>
>> I bought the plans a few years back and IIRC they take this into
>> consideration.
>> If you are considering the Paulk design.
>
> I was considering stealing from it anyway. I like the arch structure
> in the sides. They look like a perfect place to stick tools to keep
> them off the top while working.

Yes! I store clamps and tools under there. The new design sides are
square vs round.

>
>> If you are going to do the regular torsion grid under the top you need
>> to do a lot of planing.
>
> The Paulk design is a tort ion design, isn't it? ...just with more
> widely separated top/bottom.

Probably, but open all the way through from all sides.

>>
>> Something to consider with the traditional torsion box design that has a
>> top and bottom. If you drill dog holes and accidentally drop something
>> into one of those holes it will be difficult to retrieve.
>
> Mag switch. ;-) I've found that they'll even pick up most stainless
> fasteners.

But will it go down through a 3/4" dog hole?

>
>> FWIW things, in particular screws, drop through the MFT table holes all
>> the time.
>> Since I use that table to add slides to drawers I have to use a screw
>> container as those screws are particularly vulnerable to fall through.
>>
>> The Paulk design is very much like a torsion box design. BUT it only
>> has bracing crossing from side to side and on the ends. The long sides
>> are only on the outside. And then it is open all the way through both
>> directions.
>
> Right. That's what I thought. Good point about fewer supports though.
>>
>> I sometimes put my long clamps inside.
>>
>> Take a look as his latest plans/videos at least for ideas. He has
>> changed the elongated cut outs from having half circle ends to squares
>> corners. Drawers might be a consideration if it will be permanently set
>> up..
>
> Good place for tracks too. Won't help the 108" but the 55" should be
> easy to hide in the ends.

Depends on how long you make it. Mine is 96" The long track would not
stick out too much. ;~)

On 2/24/2022 5:15 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:36:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/23/2022 5:11 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:02:16 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:22 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:32:12 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
>>>>>> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>>>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
>>>>>>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
>>>>>>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
>>>>>>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
>>>>>>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
>>>>>>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
>>>>>>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
>>>>>>>> a bench table/bench.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
>>>>>>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
>>>>>>>> clamps with no issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
>>>>>>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
>>>>>>>> all when making long cuts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
>>>>>>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
>>>>>>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
>>>>>>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
>>>>>> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
>>>>>> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
>>>>>> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> The shaper origin is very effective and efficient for cutting perfect dog holes. I just draw a crosshair on the surface for where it is to be located, then visually place the hole with the origin on that crosshair. Using a 1/2" straight cut router bit, the shaper will cut the hole in 18mm baltic birch in about 5 seconds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is true BUT.... You should consider if you will use the bench top
>>>> like many use the MFT table. Others depend on the dog holes to be
>>>> "PRECICELY" located so that they can use dogs to square up stock and cut
>>>> with a track saw. Aligning visually will not guarantee precise placement.
>>>>
>>>> Others use the dogs and track to make precise 90 and 45 degree cuts with
>>>> their track saws.
>>>>
>>>> I would advise to draw the holes in Sketchup, precisely, and convert to
>>>> an SVG file. Ultimately that would probably be faster as you would not
>>>> have to mark the top and or alight the Origin on those marks for each of
>>>> those holes.
>>>
>>> I bought one of these in 2017 when it was a one-time tool.
>>>
>>> <https://www.woodpeck.com/hole-boring-jig-2019.html>
>>>
>>
>> That will work too! You do want the accuracy if you can. Swingman,
>> remember him? He bought the Parf set up and built his Paulk work bench.
>> https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/jigs-guides-and-fixtures/110468-mk-ii-parf-guide-drilling-system?item=58B3996&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=CjwKCAiA9tyQBhAIEiwA6tdCrDIzYfaBCWbsfR87Sh5PKzOiJ4Q_LSIMSfk_QLj3PE7vTcK6ecgaRhoCp9sQAvD_BwE
>>
>>
>> Your Origin would be easier to use for this operation. There will be no
>> cutting and moving a jig to a new location. And no pushing to plunge.
>
> The Origin may be more accurate too. Any errors in the jig, for
> whatever reason (spacing, hole size, hole/pin fit, or whatever) is
> cumulative. The origin wouldn't be, unless the tape stretches.

Probably more accurate and yes the re-placement of the jig would add up
an error if there was one. If the tape stretches the Origin may not
recognize it al all. I know that it does not recognize a partial
domino. When you scan the work area, the Origin will let you know if
the tape is good. The scan screen changes the color of the tape as it
"approves". ;~)

>>
>> That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
>> the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
>> surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
>> to begin as a different location for more holes.
>
> It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
> 20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
> conversion error, it would be cumulative too.

The spacing is a particular metric measurement IIRC.

On 2/25/2022 9:11 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:07:50 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/24/2022 5:27 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:27:46 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/23/2022 5:19 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:54:16 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 9:32 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
>>>>>>> <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>>>>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
>>>>>>>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
>>>>>>>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
>>>>>>>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
>>>>>>>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
>>>>>>>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
>>>>>>>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
>>>>>>>>> a bench table/bench.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
>>>>>>>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
>>>>>>>>> clamps with no issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
>>>>>>>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
>>>>>>>>> all when making long cuts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
>>>>>>>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
>>>>>>>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
>>>>>>>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
>>>>>>> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
>>>>>>> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, the Paulk benches are very rigid. I build mine from 1/2" "Baltic
>>>>>> birch LIKE" 4x8 plywood from Lowes. Painted/primed on both sides IIRC.
>>>>>> It was inexpensive and I will say not nearly as tough as Baltic Birch.
>>>>>> BUT I abuse it and it has held up well so far, 4 years and counting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Building it is a job, especially of you populate the top with "dog"
>>>>>> holes. Because I have a Festool MFT table I chose to not drill all of
>>>>>> those holes.
>>>>>
>>>>> That raises an important point. The torsion box sides have to be
>>>>> thought out with the dog holes in mind. A dog hole through a box edge
>>>>> probably wouldn't work so well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I bought the plans a few years back and IIRC they take this into
>>>> consideration.
>>>> If you are considering the Paulk design.
>>>
>>> I was considering stealing from it anyway. I like the arch structure
>>> in the sides. They look like a perfect place to stick tools to keep
>>> them off the top while working.
>>
>>
>> Yes! I store clamps and tools under there. The new design sides are
>> square vs round.
>>
>>>
>>>> If you are going to do the regular torsion grid under the top you need
>>>> to do a lot of planing.
>>>
>>> The Paulk design is a tort ion design, isn't it? ...just with more
>>> widely separated top/bottom.
>>
>> Probably, but open all the way through from all sides.
>>
> ...and further apart.
>
>>>>
>>>> Something to consider with the traditional torsion box design that has a
>>>> top and bottom. If you drill dog holes and accidentally drop something
>>>> into one of those holes it will be difficult to retrieve.
>>>
>>> Mag switch. ;-) I've found that they'll even pick up most stainless
>>> fasteners.
>>
>>
>> But will it go down through a 3/4" dog hole?
>
> Have you ever seen the magnetic puppies kids play with (or used to
> before toys were banned)? Use the magswitch to move the thing around
> until it falls out (holes on both sides?).

Gotcha but I don't think you would want to do that. That could be very
time consuming. AND I was thinking a completely closed in torsion box
where the only opening to the inside would be the dog holes. Otherwise
just reach inside for the Paulk style bench with your hand. With the
MFT the screw falls through, hits the concrete floor, and goes who knows
where. ;~)

>>>
>>>> FWIW things, in particular screws, drop through the MFT table holes all
>>>> the time.
>>>> Since I use that table to add slides to drawers I have to use a screw
>>>> container as those screws are particularly vulnerable to fall through.
>>>>
>>>> The Paulk design is very much like a torsion box design. BUT it only
>>>> has bracing crossing from side to side and on the ends. The long sides
>>>> are only on the outside. And then it is open all the way through both
>>>> directions.
>>>
>>> Right. That's what I thought. Good point about fewer supports though.
>>>>
>>>> I sometimes put my long clamps inside.
>>>>
>>>> Take a look as his latest plans/videos at least for ideas. He has
>>>> changed the elongated cut outs from having half circle ends to squares
>>>> corners. Drawers might be a consideration if it will be permanently set
>>>> up..
>>>
>>> Good place for tracks too. Won't help the 108" but the 55" should be
>>> easy to hide in the ends.
>>
>> Depends on how long you make it. Mine is 96" The long track would not
>> stick out too much. ;~)
>
> I'd hate to put an expensive ding in the end.

On 2/25/2022 9:05 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:13:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/24/2022 5:15 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:36:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/23/2022 5:11 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:02:16 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/23/2022 10:22 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 9:32:12 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:19:02 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
>>>>>>>> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>>>>>>> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
>>>>>>>>>> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
>>>>>>>>>> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
>>>>>>>>>> clear it off to cut plywood.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
>>>>>>>>>> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
>>>>>>>>>> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
>>>>>>>>>> black tool box in the attached picture.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
>>>>>>>>>> a bench table/bench.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
>>>>>>>>>> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
>>>>>>>>>> clamps with no issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
>>>>>>>>>> plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
>>>>>>>>>> all when making long cuts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
>>>>>>>>>> straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
>>>>>>>>>> stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
>>>>>>>>>> handle all the tasks for assembly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.
>>>>>>>> I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
>>>>>>>> storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
>>>>>>>> I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The shaper origin is very effective and efficient for cutting perfect dog holes. I just draw a crosshair on the surface for where it is to be located, then visually place the hole with the origin on that crosshair. Using a 1/2" straight cut router bit, the shaper will cut the hole in 18mm baltic birch in about 5 seconds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is true BUT.... You should consider if you will use the bench top
>>>>>> like many use the MFT table. Others depend on the dog holes to be
>>>>>> "PRECICELY" located so that they can use dogs to square up stock and cut
>>>>>> with a track saw. Aligning visually will not guarantee precise placement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Others use the dogs and track to make precise 90 and 45 degree cuts with
>>>>>> their track saws.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would advise to draw the holes in Sketchup, precisely, and convert to
>>>>>> an SVG file. Ultimately that would probably be faster as you would not
>>>>>> have to mark the top and or alight the Origin on those marks for each of
>>>>>> those holes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought one of these in 2017 when it was a one-time tool.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.woodpeck.com/hole-boring-jig-2019.html>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That will work too! You do want the accuracy if you can. Swingman,
>>>> remember him? He bought the Parf set up and built his Paulk work bench.
>>>> https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/jigs-guides-and-fixtures/110468-mk-ii-parf-guide-drilling-system?item=58B3996&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=CjwKCAiA9tyQBhAIEiwA6tdCrDIzYfaBCWbsfR87Sh5PKzOiJ4Q_LSIMSfk_QLj3PE7vTcK6ecgaRhoCp9sQAvD_BwE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your Origin would be easier to use for this operation. There will be no
>>>> cutting and moving a jig to a new location. And no pushing to plunge.
>>>
>>> The Origin may be more accurate too. Any errors in the jig, for
>>> whatever reason (spacing, hole size, hole/pin fit, or whatever) is
>>> cumulative. The origin wouldn't be, unless the tape stretches.
>>
>> Probably more accurate and yes the re-placement of the jig would add up
>> an error if there was one. If the tape stretches the Origin may not
>> recognize it al all. I know that it does not recognize a partial
>> domino. When you scan the work area, the Origin will let you know if
>> the tape is good. The scan screen changes the color of the tape as it
>> "approves". ;~)
>>
>>
> The videos I've watched warn that stretching the tape will throw the
> scaling off.

I guess that is possible. I have never given it a thought. The tape is
not reeeeeel sticky so it comes off of the roll quite easily therefore
it does not stretch when pulling the roll across the area to be scanned.

And concerning that I put several strips on a piece of plywood for using
like the work station domino field, just a larger area. That was summer
before last. I still use that for larger stuff that will not fit on the
work station. The tape has held up well and not come off.

>>
>>>>
>>>> That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
>>>> the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
>>>> surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
>>>> to begin as a different location for more holes.
>>>
>>> It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
>>> 20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
>>> conversion error, it would be cumulative too.
>>
>> The spacing is a particular metric measurement IIRC.
>
> Strange. The Woodpecker jig does 3/4" and 20mm holes but uses the
> same template for both. The 20mm holes are specifically designed to
> make MFT compatible/replacement tops.

On 2/26/2022 12:36 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:21:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/25/2022 9:05 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:13:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
> <..>
>>>> Probably more accurate and yes the re-placement of the jig would add up
>>>> an error if there was one. If the tape stretches the Origin may not
>>>> recognize it al all. I know that it does not recognize a partial
>>>> domino. When you scan the work area, the Origin will let you know if
>>>> the tape is good. The scan screen changes the color of the tape as it
>>>> "approves". ;~)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The videos I've watched warn that stretching the tape will throw the
>>> scaling off.
>>
>> I guess that is possible. I have never given it a thought. The tape is
>> not reeeeeel sticky so it comes off of the roll quite easily therefore
>> it does not stretch when pulling the roll across the area to be scanned.
>>
>> And concerning that I put several strips on a piece of plywood for using
>> like the work station domino field, just a larger area. That was summer
>> before last. I still use that for larger stuff that will not fit on the
>> work station. The tape has held up well and not come off.
>>
> I've seen references to that but it doesn't make much sense to me. The
> camera only looks so far so the "workstation" can't be any deeper than
> that. I guess it can be any width but there is a maximum distance
> between the cutter and the camera's vision.

The Origin shipped before the work station so I used what I had. But it
is also wider than the workstation so there is no limit to how wide the
field can be.

Some guys have taped off a whole floor to do inlay. You can cut into
the tape. I cut out speaker grills several months ago, much
bigger/deeper than the area on the work station. Just start close to
you and work your way away so that you will not be referencing tape that
has been damaged by the Origin cuts. I did the opposite on one grill,
started on the far side and cut thought the tape. I had some issues
with the damaged tape.

I don't think there is a limit to how big the scan can be.

If you have enough Domino tape there is really no limit as to how big
the project can be. And another reason I chose the Origin over a fixed
size CNC machine.

>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
>>>>>> the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
>>>>>> surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
>>>>>> to begin as a different location for more holes.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
>>>>> 20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
>>>>> conversion error, it would be cumulative too.
>>>>
>>>> The spacing is a particular metric measurement IIRC.
>>>
>>> Strange. The Woodpecker jig does 3/4" and 20mm holes but uses the
>>> same template for both. The 20mm holes are specifically designed to
>>> make MFT compatible/replacement tops.
>>
>> I would guess that the centers of the holes on the jig are a specific
>> distance. If they copy the MFT they are probably a metric spacing.
>
> But then two-hole stops in the imperial top won't work. I'm sure I
> can find the details on line.

Some two hole stops have adjustable dogs to fit odd spacing.

https://armor-tool.com/product/8%e2%80%b3-dog-fence/

>
>> Different sized holes are accomplished by different sized guide
>> bushings. AND the indexing plugs are different sized, 3 of each.
>
> Right, but the distance between hole centers is fixed.
>

Yes.

On 2/26/2022 12:56 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:08:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/25/2022 9:11 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>
> <...>
>>> I'd hate to put an expensive ding in the end.
>>
>> Yes! And why I simply hang my 3 tracks from the hole on the end.
>
> My ceiling is high enough for the 108" track. It will fit between the
> floor joists above but it's a PITA taking it out, with all the wires
> and stuff up there. It's still in the wood box it came in so pretty
> well protected.

Ah! My ceilings/sheet rock is 108" on the short height/back of the
garage and progress higher towards the garage doors to about 114"

Actually the floor drops 3" at the bump stop, then angles lower towards
the garage door.

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:59:40 AM UTC-6, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:

> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
> Bob

I bought the 4X8 Centipede about 4-5 yrs ago, when Centipede Tool had it. Affinity Tool Works acquired it and rebranded it Bora PortaMate.
It was touted as working well on uneven surfaces. That's probably accurate on an uneven job site, similarly as using saw horses on an uneven job site. Even if a leg was lower or higher than others, that leg would contribute to the stability of the whole since the leg would be "anchored".

Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in her 2 car garage. There were times when I worked out on the lawn, which was pretty much level. I never had any issues with wobbling of the table on a slight uneven surface.

There were times when I didn't unfold it completely, hence it was taller than when fully opened. I'd use a half sheet of ply on top. Though partially opened/extended, I needed a work space a little higher than normal for a short time.... and though partially opened is not secure for its touted 4500 lbs weight bearing, the open position was sufficient for my smaller projects or tasks at hand. It was plenty secure for this much lesser weight.

As to cutting sheet goods, I've never used it for that, however one could easily cut any sheet, any direction as long as you made adjustments to prevent cutting the supports, pads, etc. There is plenty of space between supports for a blade to run well past any of them.

It's a heck of a lot easier to toss it in the garage (out of the rain) for a quick job, than hauling in saw horses for table top support. I don't do lots of carpentry work/jobs, so my experience with it is probably much less than what a dedicated carpenter or similar would do.

Today's C costs $200. I paid $100 for mine. Today's accessories (designs) are a little different, but same function. My accessories are in a plastic shopping bag hanging on the shop wall... don't need the carrying bag anymore. I gave my bag to my nephew for carrying some of his 30" surveying work tools and/or accessories. I sewed a several velcro strips/straps inside for better securing the tools.... worked out great for him and I was glad to surrender the bag.

My only complaint about the Centipede today is... I'm getting too old for lifting heavy stuff. Though it's only ..... I don't know, guessing.... about 25 lbs, I don't like lifting "heavy" awkward stuff anymore. Many things in my shop, these days, have been relabeled as heavy and awkward, that use to not be.

Sonny

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 2:23:55 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> On 2/26/2022 12:36 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:21:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/25/2022 9:05 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:13:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>> wrote:
> > <..>
> >>>> Probably more accurate and yes the re-placement of the jig would add up
> >>>> an error if there was one. If the tape stretches the Origin may not
> >>>> recognize it al all. I know that it does not recognize a partial
> >>>> domino. When you scan the work area, the Origin will let you know if
> >>>> the tape is good. The scan screen changes the color of the tape as it
> >>>> "approves". ;~)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> The videos I've watched warn that stretching the tape will throw the
> >>> scaling off.
> >>
> >> I guess that is possible. I have never given it a thought. The tape is
> >> not reeeeeel sticky so it comes off of the roll quite easily therefore
> >> it does not stretch when pulling the roll across the area to be scanned.
> >>
> >> And concerning that I put several strips on a piece of plywood for using
> >> like the work station domino field, just a larger area. That was summer
> >> before last. I still use that for larger stuff that will not fit on the
> >> work station. The tape has held up well and not come off.
> >>
> > I've seen references to that but it doesn't make much sense to me. The
> > camera only looks so far so the "workstation" can't be any deeper than
> > that. I guess it can be any width but there is a maximum distance
> > between the cutter and the camera's vision.
> The Origin shipped before the work station so I used what I had. But it
> is also wider than the workstation so there is no limit to how wide the
> field can be.
>
> Some guys have taped off a whole floor to do inlay. You can cut into
> the tape. I cut out speaker grills several months ago, much
> bigger/deeper than the area on the work station. Just start close to
> you and work your way away so that you will not be referencing tape that
> has been damaged by the Origin cuts. I did the opposite on one grill,
> started on the far side and cut thought the tape. I had some issues
> with the damaged tape.
>
> I don't think there is a limit to how big the scan can be.
>
> If you have enough Domino tape there is really no limit as to how big
> the project can be. And another reason I chose the Origin over a fixed
> size CNC machine.

My origin uses SHAPER tape. Have you worked out an advanced approach that marries the domino to the Origin. :~)

> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
> >>>>>> the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
> >>>>>> surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
> >>>>>> to begin as a different location for more holes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
> >>>>> 20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
> >>>>> conversion error, it would be cumulative too.
> >>>>
> >>>> The spacing is a particular metric measurement IIRC.
> >>>
> >>> Strange. The Woodpecker jig does 3/4" and 20mm holes but uses the
> >>> same template for both. The 20mm holes are specifically designed to
> >>> make MFT compatible/replacement tops.
> >>
> >> I would guess that the centers of the holes on the jig are a specific
> >> distance. If they copy the MFT they are probably a metric spacing.
> >
> > But then two-hole stops in the imperial top won't work. I'm sure I
> > can find the details on line.
> Some two hole stops have adjustable dogs to fit odd spacing.
>
> https://armor-tool.com/product/8%e2%80%b3-dog-fence/
> >
> >> Different sized holes are accomplished by different sized guide
> >> bushings. AND the indexing plugs are different sized, 3 of each.
> >
> > Right, but the distance between hole centers is fixed.
> >
> Yes.

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:19:19 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:

> > Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in

> Plywood weighs a lot more than 25lbs and is about as awkward as it
> gets. You plywood on your Centipede, right?

Yes, ply on top of C. For garage work, I have to carry the C from the woodshop, 150' away. The ply is leaning against the garage wall, just lay and lift one end onto the C. I tilt load upholstery furniture into the truck similarly.... tilt unload onto a furniture cart when delivering.

I have a few facia & soffit repairs to do on the shop this spring. I'd like to finish replacing the old siding on the west side of the shop, also. Not looking forward to lifting scaffold boards and ply onto the scaffolds for those tasks.

I had recently hire a 20-something guy, who said he needed work, to do some of these easier tasks. He worked 4 hours on each of 2 days and hasn't come back. I've offered upholstery work (tearing apart furniture) to several people wanting work. They never show up. I over heard a young girl (20-ish?) say she hoped to get home on just the gas she bought, $4 and some change. I gave her $10 for more gas and asked if she wanted work, describing the upholstery work. She said yes. She never showed up. I wonder how some of the folks have gotten along if their stimulus funds have run dry.

On a funny note: I was in the hospital a few days, a few weeks back. My sister came over to do some chores around the house, including cleaning the frig. She wouldn't accept any pay. I discovered, too late, my ~ $100 worth of shellac flakes, in the bottom of the frig, was gone. She thought it was some old dried up groceries and tossed it. I didn't have the shop frig when I bought the shellac and I never thought to put the shellac in the shop frig once I bought it.

Sonny

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:30:38 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:19:19 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>
> > > Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in
> > Plywood weighs a lot more than 25lbs and is about as awkward as it
> > gets. You plywood on your Centipede, right?
> Yes, ply on top of C. For garage work, I have to carry the C from the woodshop, 150' away. The ply is leaning against the garage wall, just lay and lift one end onto the C. I tilt load upholstery furniture into the truck similarly.... tilt unload onto a furniture cart when delivering.
>
> I have a few facia & soffit repairs to do on the shop this spring. I'd like to finish replacing the old siding on the west side of the shop, also. Not looking forward to lifting scaffold boards and ply onto the scaffolds for those tasks.
>
> I had recently hire a 20-something guy, who said he needed work, to do some of these easier tasks. He worked 4 hours on each of 2 days and hasn't come back. I've offered upholstery work (tearing apart furniture) to several people wanting work. They never show up. I over heard a young girl (20-ish?) say she hoped to get home on just the gas she bought, $4 and some change. I gave her $10 for more gas and asked if she wanted work, describing the upholstery work. She said yes. She never showed up. I wonder how some of the folks have gotten along if their stimulus funds have run dry.
>
> On a funny note: I was in the hospital a few days, a few weeks back. My sister came over to do some chores around the house, including cleaning the frig. She wouldn't accept any pay. I discovered, too late, my ~ $100 worth of shellac flakes, in the bottom of the frig, was gone. She thought it was some old dried up groceries and tossed it. I didn't have the shop frig when I bought the shellac and I never thought to put the shellac in the shop frig once I bought it.
>
> Sonny

Maybe she knew what they were, fenced them and that's why she was
gracious enough to work for free. ;-)

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 8:53:24 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

> Maybe she knew what they were, fenced them and that's why she was
> gracious enough to work for free. ;-)

Yeah. At some gathering, long ago, I tagged her "Sinister Sister". Can't recall the event.

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:19:19 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:19:20 -0800 (PST), Sonny <cedar...@aol.com>
> wrote:
> >On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:59:40 AM UTC-6, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
> >> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
> >> Bob
> >
> >I bought the 4X8 Centipede about 4-5 yrs ago, when Centipede Tool had it.. Affinity Tool Works acquired it and rebranded it Bora PortaMate.
> >It was touted as working well on uneven surfaces. That's probably accurate on an uneven job site, similarly as using saw horses on an uneven job site. Even if a leg was lower or higher than others, that leg would contribute to the stability of the whole since the leg would be "anchored".
> >
> >Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in her 2 car garage. There were times when I worked out on the lawn, which was pretty much level. I never had any issues with wobbling of the table on a slight uneven surface.
> >
> >There were times when I didn't unfold it completely, hence it was taller than when fully opened. I'd use a half sheet of ply on top. Though partially opened/extended, I needed a work space a little higher than normal for a short time.... and though partially opened is not secure for its touted 4500 lbs weight bearing, the open position was sufficient for my smaller projects or tasks at hand. It was plenty secure for this much lesser weight.
> >
> >As to cutting sheet goods, I've never used it for that, however one could easily cut any sheet, any direction as long as you made adjustments to prevent cutting the supports, pads, etc. There is plenty of space between supports for a blade to run well past any of them.
> >
> >It's a heck of a lot easier to toss it in the garage (out of the rain) for a quick job, than hauling in saw horses for table top support. I don't do lots of carpentry work/jobs, so my experience with it is probably much less than what a dedicated carpenter or similar would do.
> >
> >Today's C costs $200. I paid $100 for mine. Today's accessories (designs) are a little different, but same function. My accessories are in a plastic shopping bag hanging on the shop wall... don't need the carrying bag anymore. I gave my bag to my nephew for carrying some of his 30" surveying work tools and/or accessories. I sewed a several velcro strips/straps inside for better securing the tools.... worked out great for him and I was glad to surrender the bag.
> >
> >My only complaint about the Centipede today is... I'm getting too old for lifting heavy stuff. Though it's only ..... I don't know, guessing.... about 25 lbs, I don't like lifting "heavy" awkward stuff anymore. Many things in my shop, these days, have been relabeled as heavy and awkward, that use to not be.
> >
> >Sonny
> Plywood weighs a lot more than 25lbs and is about as awkward as it
> gets. You plywood on your Centipede, right?
>
> I'm starting to worry that I won't be able to carry full sheets
> anymore. My arm/hand may never fully recover. I can handle it around
> the shop but unloading sheets off my truck may be a real problem.

I bought a rockler Material Mate cart to serve the purpose of moving heavy sheet goods. It helps a lot and it is sturdy. I would appreciate it more if it did not take up so much space. It is worth considering if your concern is unloading your truck and getting the material to the shop.

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:58:45 PM UTC-6, Bob Davis wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:19:19 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:19:20 -0800 (PST), Sonny <cedar...@aol.com>
> > wrote:
> > >On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:59:40 AM UTC-6, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
> > >> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
> > >> Bob
> > >
> > >I bought the 4X8 Centipede about 4-5 yrs ago, when Centipede Tool had it. Affinity Tool Works acquired it and rebranded it Bora PortaMate.
> > >It was touted as working well on uneven surfaces. That's probably accurate on an uneven job site, similarly as using saw horses on an uneven job site. Even if a leg was lower or higher than others, that leg would contribute to the stability of the whole since the leg would be "anchored".
> > >
> > >Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in her 2 car garage. There were times when I worked out on the lawn, which was pretty much level. I never had any issues with wobbling of the table on a slight uneven surface.
> > >
> > >There were times when I didn't unfold it completely, hence it was taller than when fully opened. I'd use a half sheet of ply on top. Though partially opened/extended, I needed a work space a little higher than normal for a short time.... and though partially opened is not secure for its touted 4500 lbs weight bearing, the open position was sufficient for my smaller projects or tasks at hand. It was plenty secure for this much lesser weight.
> > >
> > >As to cutting sheet goods, I've never used it for that, however one could easily cut any sheet, any direction as long as you made adjustments to prevent cutting the supports, pads, etc. There is plenty of space between supports for a blade to run well past any of them.
> > >
> > >It's a heck of a lot easier to toss it in the garage (out of the rain) for a quick job, than hauling in saw horses for table top support. I don't do lots of carpentry work/jobs, so my experience with it is probably much less than what a dedicated carpenter or similar would do.
> > >
> > >Today's C costs $200. I paid $100 for mine. Today's accessories (designs) are a little different, but same function. My accessories are in a plastic shopping bag hanging on the shop wall... don't need the carrying bag anymore. I gave my bag to my nephew for carrying some of his 30" surveying work tools and/or accessories. I sewed a several velcro strips/straps inside for better securing the tools.... worked out great for him and I was glad to surrender the bag.
> > >
> > >My only complaint about the Centipede today is... I'm getting too old for lifting heavy stuff. Though it's only ..... I don't know, guessing.... about 25 lbs, I don't like lifting "heavy" awkward stuff anymore. Many things in my shop, these days, have been relabeled as heavy and awkward, that use to not be.
> > >
> > >Sonny
> > Plywood weighs a lot more than 25lbs and is about as awkward as it
> > gets. You plywood on your Centipede, right?
> >
> > I'm starting to worry that I won't be able to carry full sheets
> > anymore. My arm/hand may never fully recover. I can handle it around
> > the shop but unloading sheets off my truck may be a real problem.
> I bought a rockler Material Mate cart to serve the purpose of moving heavy sheet goods. It helps a lot and it is sturdy. I would appreciate it more if it did not take up so much space. It is worth considering if your concern is unloading your truck and getting the material to the shop.

I am rethinking how to use/store the material mate, instead of sitting against the wall gathering dust. There are some interesting reviews and user photos on the rockler website. Here is a stumpy nubbs youtube video on the product (start viewing at 3:23) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n1gZ8PU7eo

Bob

On 2/26/2022 6:39 PM, Bob Davis wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 2:23:55 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/26/2022 12:36 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:21:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/25/2022 9:05 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:13:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>> <..>
>>>>>> Probably more accurate and yes the re-placement of the jig would add up
>>>>>> an error if there was one. If the tape stretches the Origin may not
>>>>>> recognize it al all. I know that it does not recognize a partial
>>>>>> domino. When you scan the work area, the Origin will let you know if
>>>>>> the tape is good. The scan screen changes the color of the tape as it
>>>>>> "approves". ;~)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The videos I've watched warn that stretching the tape will throw the
>>>>> scaling off.
>>>>
>>>> I guess that is possible. I have never given it a thought. The tape is
>>>> not reeeeeel sticky so it comes off of the roll quite easily therefore
>>>> it does not stretch when pulling the roll across the area to be scanned.
>>>>
>>>> And concerning that I put several strips on a piece of plywood for using
>>>> like the work station domino field, just a larger area. That was summer
>>>> before last. I still use that for larger stuff that will not fit on the
>>>> work station. The tape has held up well and not come off.
>>>>
>>> I've seen references to that but it doesn't make much sense to me. The
>>> camera only looks so far so the "workstation" can't be any deeper than
>>> that. I guess it can be any width but there is a maximum distance
>>> between the cutter and the camera's vision.
>> The Origin shipped before the work station so I used what I had. But it
>> is also wider than the workstation so there is no limit to how wide the
>> field can be.
>>
>> Some guys have taped off a whole floor to do inlay. You can cut into
>> the tape. I cut out speaker grills several months ago, much
>> bigger/deeper than the area on the work station. Just start close to
>> you and work your way away so that you will not be referencing tape that
>> has been damaged by the Origin cuts. I did the opposite on one grill,
>> started on the far side and cut thought the tape. I had some issues
>> with the damaged tape.
>>
>> I don't think there is a limit to how big the scan can be.
>>
>> If you have enough Domino tape there is really no limit as to how big
>> the project can be. And another reason I chose the Origin over a fixed
>> size CNC machine.
>
> My origin uses SHAPER tape. Have you worked out an advanced approach that marries the domino to the Origin. :~)

LOL. No I use the Shaper brand stuff.

On 2/26/2022 7:04 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 14:23:44 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2022 12:36 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:21:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/25/2022 9:05 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:13:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>> <..>
>>>>>> Probably more accurate and yes the re-placement of the jig would add up
>>>>>> an error if there was one. If the tape stretches the Origin may not
>>>>>> recognize it al all. I know that it does not recognize a partial
>>>>>> domino. When you scan the work area, the Origin will let you know if
>>>>>> the tape is good. The scan screen changes the color of the tape as it
>>>>>> "approves". ;~)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The videos I've watched warn that stretching the tape will throw the
>>>>> scaling off.
>>>>
>>>> I guess that is possible. I have never given it a thought. The tape is
>>>> not reeeeeel sticky so it comes off of the roll quite easily therefore
>>>> it does not stretch when pulling the roll across the area to be scanned.
>>>>
>>>> And concerning that I put several strips on a piece of plywood for using
>>>> like the work station domino field, just a larger area. That was summer
>>>> before last. I still use that for larger stuff that will not fit on the
>>>> work station. The tape has held up well and not come off.
>>>>
>>> I've seen references to that but it doesn't make much sense to me. The
>>> camera only looks so far so the "workstation" can't be any deeper than
>>> that. I guess it can be any width but there is a maximum distance
>>> between the cutter and the camera's vision.
>>
>> The Origin shipped before the work station so I used what I had. But it
>> is also wider than the workstation so there is no limit to how wide the
>> field can be.
>
> That's what I thought. I couldn't see how a "workstation" could be
> any wider than the depth of the vision system. If it could, there
> wouldn't be any need for a lot of tape.
>>
>> Some guys have taped off a whole floor to do inlay. You can cut into
>> the tape. I cut out speaker grills several months ago, much
>> bigger/deeper than the area on the work station. Just start close to
>> you and work your way away so that you will not be referencing tape that
>> has been damaged by the Origin cuts. I did the opposite on one grill,
>> started on the far side and cut thought the tape. I had some issues
>> with the damaged tape.
>
> I've seen that. Inlays on floors look really cool. I bet there is
> money to be made there. Shaper may be cheating though.

https://hackaday.com/2018/04/15/superb-wood-floor-inlay-shows-off-computer-augmented-tools/

>>
>> I don't think there is a limit to how big the scan can be.
>
> There has to be some limit of memory but it could be ridiculously
> large.
>
>> If you have enough Domino tape there is really no limit as to how big
>> the project can be. And another reason I chose the Origin over a fixed
>> size CNC machine.
>
> I was considering a gantry style CNC but when you were talking about
> the Origin here, I got that point. Then, I was reading about gantry
> CNCs and one of the writers said something on the order of "you can
> only make so many plaques...'. I decided that the Origin would be
> more fun. The programming of gantry CNCs sounds a lot like work.
>
> So it's all your fault!

It is always my fault! ;~(

On 2/27/2022 3:12 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:58:41 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
> <wrobertdavis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:19:19 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:19:20 -0800 (PST), Sonny <cedar...@aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:59:40 AM UTC-6, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> I bought the 4X8 Centipede about 4-5 yrs ago, when Centipede Tool had it. Affinity Tool Works acquired it and rebranded it Bora PortaMate.
>>>> It was touted as working well on uneven surfaces. That's probably accurate on an uneven job site, similarly as using saw horses on an uneven job site. Even if a leg was lower or higher than others, that leg would contribute to the stability of the whole since the leg would be "anchored".
>>>>
>>>> Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in her 2 car garage. There were times when I worked out on the lawn, which was pretty much level. I never had any issues with wobbling of the table on a slight uneven surface.
>>>>
>>>> There were times when I didn't unfold it completely, hence it was taller than when fully opened. I'd use a half sheet of ply on top. Though partially opened/extended, I needed a work space a little higher than normal for a short time.... and though partially opened is not secure for its touted 4500 lbs weight bearing, the open position was sufficient for my smaller projects or tasks at hand. It was plenty secure for this much lesser weight.
>>>>
>>>> As to cutting sheet goods, I've never used it for that, however one could easily cut any sheet, any direction as long as you made adjustments to prevent cutting the supports, pads, etc. There is plenty of space between supports for a blade to run well past any of them.
>>>>
>>>> It's a heck of a lot easier to toss it in the garage (out of the rain) for a quick job, than hauling in saw horses for table top support. I don't do lots of carpentry work/jobs, so my experience with it is probably much less than what a dedicated carpenter or similar would do.
>>>>
>>>> Today's C costs $200. I paid $100 for mine. Today's accessories (designs) are a little different, but same function. My accessories are in a plastic shopping bag hanging on the shop wall... don't need the carrying bag anymore. I gave my bag to my nephew for carrying some of his 30" surveying work tools and/or accessories. I sewed a several velcro strips/straps inside for better securing the tools.... worked out great for him and I was glad to surrender the bag.
>>>>
>>>> My only complaint about the Centipede today is... I'm getting too old for lifting heavy stuff. Though it's only ..... I don't know, guessing.... about 25 lbs, I don't like lifting "heavy" awkward stuff anymore. Many things in my shop, these days, have been relabeled as heavy and awkward, that use to not be.
>>>>
>>>> Sonny
>>> Plywood weighs a lot more than 25lbs and is about as awkward as it
>>> gets. You plywood on your Centipede, right?
>>>
>>> I'm starting to worry that I won't be able to carry full sheets
>>> anymore. My arm/hand may never fully recover. I can handle it around
>>> the shop but unloading sheets off my truck may be a real problem.
>>
>> I bought a rockler Material Mate cart to serve the purpose of moving heavy sheet goods. It helps a lot and it is sturdy. I would appreciate it more if it did not take up so much space. It is worth considering if your concern is unloading your truck and getting the material to the shop.
>
>
>
> I have all sorts of panel movers that I thought were a good idea at
> the time. All have one problem or another. I have a Bora Portamate
> that looks great on paper but it's simply too heavy to be of any use
> bringing panels in from my truck. The latch is in an impossible place
> with a panel on it so it's not really of much use around the shop
> either.
>
> My shop is in a walk-out basement. The access is in the rear and
> opens out to "grass". I think the casters on the Rockler panel cart
> would be way too small to work. It has to go up a step into the
> basement, as well.
>
> I bought a Gorilla Gripper that would break my arm if it weren't
> already broken. It's probably OK for 1/2" ply but MDF and melamine
> are killers.
>
> This is about the best I've seen but one still has to lift the panel
> over obstacles. The big problem is that the hand bar is just too
> narrow. It's only about 1/4" and it needs to be about 1" or perhaps a
> little more.
>
> <https://www.amazon.com/Telpro-Troll-300-Pound-Capacity-Handler/dp/B0000224PA/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=Plywood+Lifting+Tool&qid=1645996066&sr=8-19>

Sooooo I'm not lifting 3/4" ply by myself anymore either. My Paulk
style bench is situated near the garage door. I slide the plywood out
of the bed directly on the work bench and I cut it before moving the ply
again.

Is your walk out basement door to narrow to slide a sheet of plywood
through?

On 2/27/2022 4:16 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 15:54:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2022 6:39 PM, Bob Davis wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 2:23:55 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/26/2022 12:36 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:21:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/25/2022 9:05 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:13:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> <..>
>>>>>>>> Probably more accurate and yes the re-placement of the jig would add up
>>>>>>>> an error if there was one. If the tape stretches the Origin may not
>>>>>>>> recognize it al all. I know that it does not recognize a partial
>>>>>>>> domino. When you scan the work area, the Origin will let you know if
>>>>>>>> the tape is good. The scan screen changes the color of the tape as it
>>>>>>>> "approves". ;~)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The videos I've watched warn that stretching the tape will throw the
>>>>>>> scaling off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess that is possible. I have never given it a thought. The tape is
>>>>>> not reeeeeel sticky so it comes off of the roll quite easily therefore
>>>>>> it does not stretch when pulling the roll across the area to be scanned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And concerning that I put several strips on a piece of plywood for using
>>>>>> like the work station domino field, just a larger area. That was summer
>>>>>> before last. I still use that for larger stuff that will not fit on the
>>>>>> work station. The tape has held up well and not come off.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen references to that but it doesn't make much sense to me. The
>>>>> camera only looks so far so the "workstation" can't be any deeper than
>>>>> that. I guess it can be any width but there is a maximum distance
>>>>> between the cutter and the camera's vision.
>>>> The Origin shipped before the work station so I used what I had. But it
>>>> is also wider than the workstation so there is no limit to how wide the
>>>> field can be.
>>>>
>>>> Some guys have taped off a whole floor to do inlay. You can cut into
>>>> the tape. I cut out speaker grills several months ago, much
>>>> bigger/deeper than the area on the work station. Just start close to
>>>> you and work your way away so that you will not be referencing tape that
>>>> has been damaged by the Origin cuts. I did the opposite on one grill,
>>>> started on the far side and cut thought the tape. I had some issues
>>>> with the damaged tape.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think there is a limit to how big the scan can be.
>>>>
>>>> If you have enough Domino tape there is really no limit as to how big
>>>> the project can be. And another reason I chose the Origin over a fixed
>>>> size CNC machine.
>>>
>>> My origin uses SHAPER tape. Have you worked out an advanced approach that marries the domino to the Origin. :~)
>>
>>
>> LOL. No I use the Shaper brand stuff.
>
> AIUI, you can print your own, though I'm not sure why. The only
> requirement of the tape is that there aren't any duplicated. The size
> and distance between would have to be identical too.

I have read that you can copy the tape but..... I have not yet used the
first roll. I build the price of the into the job.

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 3:12:34 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:58:41 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis
> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:19:19 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:19:20 -0800 (PST), Sonny <cedar...@aol.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:59:40 AM UTC-6, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
> >> >> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
> >> >> Bob
> >> >
> >> >I bought the 4X8 Centipede about 4-5 yrs ago, when Centipede Tool had it. Affinity Tool Works acquired it and rebranded it Bora PortaMate.
> >> >It was touted as working well on uneven surfaces. That's probably accurate on an uneven job site, similarly as using saw horses on an uneven job site. Even if a leg was lower or higher than others, that leg would contribute to the stability of the whole since the leg would be "anchored".
> >> >
> >> >Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in her 2 car garage. There were times when I worked out on the lawn, which was pretty much level. I never had any issues with wobbling of the table on a slight uneven surface.
> >> >
> >> >There were times when I didn't unfold it completely, hence it was taller than when fully opened. I'd use a half sheet of ply on top. Though partially opened/extended, I needed a work space a little higher than normal for a short time.... and though partially opened is not secure for its touted 4500 lbs weight bearing, the open position was sufficient for my smaller projects or tasks at hand. It was plenty secure for this much lesser weight.
> >> >
> >> >As to cutting sheet goods, I've never used it for that, however one could easily cut any sheet, any direction as long as you made adjustments to prevent cutting the supports, pads, etc. There is plenty of space between supports for a blade to run well past any of them.
> >> >
> >> >It's a heck of a lot easier to toss it in the garage (out of the rain) for a quick job, than hauling in saw horses for table top support. I don't do lots of carpentry work/jobs, so my experience with it is probably much less than what a dedicated carpenter or similar would do.
> >> >
> >> >Today's C costs $200. I paid $100 for mine. Today's accessories (designs) are a little different, but same function. My accessories are in a plastic shopping bag hanging on the shop wall... don't need the carrying bag anymore. I gave my bag to my nephew for carrying some of his 30" surveying work tools and/or accessories. I sewed a several velcro strips/straps inside for better securing the tools.... worked out great for him and I was glad to surrender the bag.
> >> >
> >> >My only complaint about the Centipede today is... I'm getting too old for lifting heavy stuff. Though it's only ..... I don't know, guessing.... about 25 lbs, I don't like lifting "heavy" awkward stuff anymore. Many things in my shop, these days, have been relabeled as heavy and awkward, that use to not be.
> >> >
> >> >Sonny
> >> Plywood weighs a lot more than 25lbs and is about as awkward as it
> >> gets. You plywood on your Centipede, right?
> >>
> >> I'm starting to worry that I won't be able to carry full sheets
> >> anymore. My arm/hand may never fully recover. I can handle it around
> >> the shop but unloading sheets off my truck may be a real problem.
> >
> >I bought a rockler Material Mate cart to serve the purpose of moving heavy sheet goods. It helps a lot and it is sturdy. I would appreciate it more if it did not take up so much space. It is worth considering if your concern is unloading your truck and getting the material to the shop.
> I have all sorts of panel movers that I thought were a good idea at
> the time. All have one problem or another. I have a Bora Portamate
> that looks great on paper but it's simply too heavy to be of any use
> bringing panels in from my truck. The latch is in an impossible place
> with a panel on it so it's not really of much use around the shop
> either.
>
> My shop is in a walk-out basement. The access is in the rear and
> opens out to "grass". I think the casters on the Rockler panel cart
> would be way too small to work. It has to go up a step into the
> basement, as well.
>
> I bought a Gorilla Gripper that would break my arm if it weren't
> already broken. It's probably OK for 1/2" ply but MDF and melamine
> are killers.
>
> This is about the best I've seen but one still has to lift the panel
> over obstacles. The big problem is that the hand bar is just too
> narrow. It's only about 1/4" and it needs to be about 1" or perhaps a
> little more.
>
> <https://www.amazon.com/Telpro-Troll-300-Pound-Capacity-Handler/dp/B0000224PA/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=Plywood+Lifting+Tool&qid=1645996066&sr=8-19>

It sounds like you would need something like a cross between a garden cart with pneumatic tires and a panel mover. I have not seen such an animal.

I have a troll panel lift. I bought it about 19 years ago. It is pretty handy. It would be pretty straighforward to add a larger diameter handgrip.