On 4/08/2021 5:39 am, Mark Jackson wrote:
> On 8/3/2021 12:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-03 7:07 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>
>>> The correct procedure is to wait until the queue starts moving and
>>> slot into one's correct position, based on the order cars entered the
>>> pits at the end of the formation lap.
>>
>> Is it? Where is that codified, exactly?
>
> I find I was wrong, and Alan LeHun is correct - the proper order is
> determined by when one joins the queue at the end of the pit lane.
>
>>>> It's not likely to come up more than once a millennium, but clearly,
>>>> there should be rules in place about start order. It's absurd that
>>>> the position of a driver's pit box should play a role in the start
>>>> order when the race is restarting.
>>>
>>> There are rules.  Someone on the team should have had the
>>> responsibility of telling the drivers what they were.
>> So show this rule.
>
> Current sporting regs 42.1(c):
>
> "Any other car entering the pit lane during the formation laps may
> re-join the track but must enter the pit lane after the safety car
> returns to the pits and start the sprint qualifying session or the race
> from the end of the pit lane in the order they get there."
>

There Master Baker, that's where the rule is.

geoff

On 4/08/2021 8:20 am, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-03 10:39 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>> On 8/3/2021 12:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-03 7:07 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>
>>>> The correct procedure is to wait until the queue starts moving and
>>>> slot into one's correct position, based on the order cars entered
>>>> the pits at the end of the formation lap.
>>>
>>> Is it? Where is that codified, exactly?
>>
>> I find I was wrong, and Alan LeHun is correct - the proper order is
>> determined by when one joins the queue at the end of the pit lane.
>
> Spoken like a gentleman!
>
> :-)
>
>>
>>>>> It's not likely to come up more than once a millennium, but clearly,
>>>>> there should be rules in place about start order. It's absurd that
>>>>> the position of a driver's pit box should play a role in the start
>>>>> order when the race is restarting.
>>>>
>>>> There are rules.  Someone on the team should have had the
>>>> responsibility of telling the drivers what they were.
>>> So show this rule.
>>
>> Current sporting regs 42.1(c):
>>
>> "Any other car entering the pit lane during the formation laps may
>> re-join the track but must enter the pit lane after the safety car
>> returns to the pits and start the sprint qualifying session or the
>> race from the end of the pit lane in the order they get there."
>>
>
> And given that the race isn't actually happening prior to the restart, I
> think they should rewrite this rule so that all cars that choose to pit
> for tires remain in the order they were to maintain if didn't pit.

A different scenario if all cars told to return to the pits, and restart
from there.

But pitting this time was OPTIONAL. They chose to do it, and suffer the
consequences.

> Yes: those who choose to pit should have to follow anyone who doesn't
> choose to do so, but why in the world should the order change based on
> pit stall position?

Didn't. The difference was the servicing time and when they could have
slotted back out into the queue. FIFO if servicing times all equal. If
slow servicing, tough.

geoff

In article <4sqdnURwRtUHKJT8nZ2dnUU7-RvNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
geoff@nospamgeoffwood.org says...
> And they should have been aware that you can't flit around inside to get
> back up front.
>
> Ineptitude.
>

The more I look at it, the more it appears to fall on Russell's head.
Russell did, apparently, ask the team if it was alright to 'do this' but
before the team could say no, the pit light turned green and he was off.
He was told almost immediately by Williams that (it was not alright and)
he would have to give the places back.

KR ran wide at a corner and didn't get the place handed back but I don't
know if that was Russell or Williams that called it. Stewards were happy
with the outcome so that appears to have been the right call.

--
Alan LeHun

On 2021-08-03 2:31 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 3/08/2021 5:12 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-02 9:46 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 3/08/2021 3:55 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-02 7:26 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> On 3/08/2021 11:54 am, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/08/2021 6:33 am, Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/2/2021 2:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'd like to know more about what the team said to Lewis about
>>>>>>>> the restart and whether or not they should pit for dry tires.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He was told to stay out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/wolff-stands-by-decision-to-not-pit-hamilton-before-standing-restart-/6640674/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I found interesting is Mercedes thought they'd drop too many
>>>>>> places due to their pit box being first and that they'd have to
>>>>>> hold Hamilton as other cars went by yeah?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then how come Russell had the opposite thing and managed to get
>>>>>> out first (from 8th) but was told by the stewards to give places
>>>>>> back on the next lap? Why only Russell? Latifi and Tsunoda also
>>>>>> got past Sainz in the 'stop' (Latifi from 6th to 3rd) and they
>>>>>> weren't instructed to give the places back, in fact a few cars
>>>>>> shuffled forward or back a place or three but were left where they
>>>>>> came out. If Hamilton had ended up coming out say 10th would the
>>>>>> stewards have told everyone to let him past?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a lot of questions about this restart and can find few
>>>>>> answers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, RUS's problem was that he over(under)took cars in the pit lane
>>>>> - at least three had pulled up alongside or in front of him at the
>>>>> pit exit line, and he drove forward on the inside non-lane area to
>>>>> get around them and jump them at the re-start.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3S4A0T-QrA
>>>>>
>>>>> Enough to make you cry, eh. Future champ, or chump ?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJA1EtZyDNI
>>>>
>>>>  From what I saw watching his in-car camera, a queue had formed to
>>>> the left of his pit box, so his option would have been to sit until
>>>> every other car had left.
>>>>
>>>> Not something that's going to sit well with any racing driver.
>>>>
>>>> Better to try it on and then have to give back places.
>>>>
>>>> It's not likely to come up more than once a millennium, but clearly,
>>>> there should be rules in place about start order. It's absurd that
>>>> the position of a driver's pit box should play a role in the start
>>>> order when the race is restarting.
>>>
>>> Ineptitude to have not got out onto the line first if there was no
>>> rule about it.
>>
>> There's no "ineptitude" about it. When a bunch of cars all come
>> streaming into the pits together, the ones who are at the front of the
>> line are going to have to hold after their pit stops are done because
>> cars further back are driving by. Obviously, the position of one's pit
>> box is a huge factor in this.
>
> No. WHEN you come out of your pit box in relation to the other cars is
> the only factor in this. The minimum time driving down the lane plus
> servicing-time should be near the same for each car, so FIFO could
> apply. If they took too long servicing the car, that's their mistake.

20 cars running close enough together that there is no space large
enough to slot into if they are going by your pit box.

You are in front, but your pit box is nearest to the pit entrance.

You pull over, stop, get new tires and are let go.

There is NO WAY that all 19 cars went by you in that amount of time.

So when you come out, you will be BEHIND every car on the grid.

Because the first available space for safe release will be behind the
last car.

Do you get it yet?

On 2021-08-03 2:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 4/08/2021 5:39 am, Mark Jackson wrote:
>> On 8/3/2021 12:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-03 7:07 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>
>>>> The correct procedure is to wait until the queue starts moving and
>>>> slot into one's correct position, based on the order cars entered
>>>> the pits at the end of the formation lap.
>>>
>>> Is it? Where is that codified, exactly?
>>
>> I find I was wrong, and Alan LeHun is correct - the proper order is
>> determined by when one joins the queue at the end of the pit lane.
>>
>>>>> It's not likely to come up more than once a millennium, but clearly,
>>>>> there should be rules in place about start order. It's absurd that
>>>>> the position of a driver's pit box should play a role in the start
>>>>> order when the race is restarting.
>>>>
>>>> There are rules.  Someone on the team should have had the
>>>> responsibility of telling the drivers what they were.
>>> So show this rule.
>>
>> Current sporting regs 42.1(c):
>>
>> "Any other car entering the pit lane during the formation laps may
>> re-join the track but must enter the pit lane after the safety car
>> returns to the pits and start the sprint qualifying session or the
>> race from the end of the pit lane in the order they get there."
>>
>
> There Master Baker, that's where the rule is.

Which is why I asked...

....because Mr. Jackson had it WRONG.

On 2021-08-03 2:37 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 4/08/2021 8:20 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-03 10:39 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>> On 8/3/2021 12:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-03 7:07 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The correct procedure is to wait until the queue starts moving and
>>>>> slot into one's correct position, based on the order cars entered
>>>>> the pits at the end of the formation lap.
>>>>
>>>> Is it? Where is that codified, exactly?
>>>
>>> I find I was wrong, and Alan LeHun is correct - the proper order is
>>> determined by when one joins the queue at the end of the pit lane.
>>
>> Spoken like a gentleman!
>>
>> :-)
>>
>>>
>>>>>> It's not likely to come up more than once a millennium, but clearly,
>>>>>> there should be rules in place about start order. It's absurd that
>>>>>> the position of a driver's pit box should play a role in the start
>>>>>> order when the race is restarting.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are rules.  Someone on the team should have had the
>>>>> responsibility of telling the drivers what they were.
>>>> So show this rule.
>>>
>>> Current sporting regs 42.1(c):
>>>
>>> "Any other car entering the pit lane during the formation laps may
>>> re-join the track but must enter the pit lane after the safety car
>>> returns to the pits and start the sprint qualifying session or the
>>> race from the end of the pit lane in the order they get there."
>>>
>>
>> And given that the race isn't actually happening prior to the restart,
>> I think they should rewrite this rule so that all cars that choose to
>> pit for tires remain in the order they were to maintain if didn't pit.
>
> A different scenario if all cars told to return to the pits, and restart
> from there.
>
> But pitting this time was OPTIONAL. They chose to do it, and suffer the
> consequences.

But some of those consequences were the result of of the placement of
pit boxes.

>
>
>> Yes: those who choose to pit should have to follow anyone who doesn't
>> choose to do so, but why in the world should the order change based on
>> pit stall position?
>
> Didn't. The difference was the servicing time and when they could have
> slotted back out into the queue. FIFO if servicing times all equal. If
> slow servicing, tough.

You're simply wrong about this.

They couldn't NOT have all slotted back out...

....because the spaces between cars were less in time than that necessary
to pull over, stop, get tires and get back in line.

Yes: if precisely TWO cars stop, it doesn't matter.

But it was many more than two cars.

On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 2:20:23 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:

> Spoken like a gentleman!

As if you even know what that means.
Spare me the bullshit.
You phony fuck.

On 4/08/2021 10:06 am, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-03 2:37 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> On 4/08/2021 8:20 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-03 10:39 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>> On 8/3/2021 12:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-03 7:07 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> The correct procedure is to wait until the queue starts moving and
>>>>>> slot into one's correct position, based on the order cars entered
>>>>>> the pits at the end of the formation lap.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it? Where is that codified, exactly?
>>>>
>>>> I find I was wrong, and Alan LeHun is correct - the proper order is
>>>> determined by when one joins the queue at the end of the pit lane.
>>>
>>> Spoken like a gentleman!
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not likely to come up more than once a millennium, but clearly,
>>>>>>> there should be rules in place about start order. It's absurd that
>>>>>>> the position of a driver's pit box should play a role in the start
>>>>>>> order when the race is restarting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are rules.  Someone on the team should have had the
>>>>>> responsibility of telling the drivers what they were.
>>>>> So show this rule.
>>>>
>>>> Current sporting regs 42.1(c):
>>>>
>>>> "Any other car entering the pit lane during the formation laps may
>>>> re-join the track but must enter the pit lane after the safety car
>>>> returns to the pits and start the sprint qualifying session or the
>>>> race from the end of the pit lane in the order they get there."
>>>>
>>>
>>> And given that the race isn't actually happening prior to the
>>> restart, I think they should rewrite this rule so that all cars that
>>> choose to pit for tires remain in the order they were to maintain if
>>> didn't pit.
>>
>> A different scenario if all cars told to return to the pits, and
>> restart from there.
>>
>> But pitting this time was OPTIONAL. They chose to do it, and suffer
>> the consequences.
>
> But some of those consequences were the result of of the placement of
> pit boxes.
>
>>
>>
>>> Yes: those who choose to pit should have to follow anyone who doesn't
>>> choose to do so, but why in the world should the order change based
>>> on pit stall position?
>>
>> Didn't. The difference was the servicing time and when they could have
>> slotted back out into the queue. FIFO if servicing times all equal. If
>> slow servicing, tough.
>
> You're simply wrong about this.
>
> They couldn't NOT have all slotted back out...
>
> ...because the spaces between cars were less in time than that necessary
> to pull over, stop, get tires and get back in line.
>
> Yes: if precisely TWO cars stop, it doesn't matter.
>
> But it was many more than two cars.

One hundred cars pull in, in order. They all stop for 2 seconds in their
boxes, wherever they may be. They all pull out out again. How is this
not in the same order as they came in ? Is that too difficult to
comprehend ?

BUT there was no necessity for ANY order to be followed. It was a
voluntary pit-stop, not mandatory. So the order should have been (and
was, apart from RUS) whatever order they finished their stop and
proceeded to the pit-exit line, and if some were slower stops than
others then they had to fit in line where they could.

geoff

On 4/08/2021 10:06 am, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-03 2:37 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> On 4/08/2021 8:20 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-03 10:39 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>> On 8/3/2021 12:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-03 7:07 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> The correct procedure is to wait until the queue starts moving and
>>>>>> slot into one's correct position, based on the order cars entered
>>>>>> the pits at the end of the formation lap.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it? Where is that codified, exactly?
>>>>
>>>> I find I was wrong, and Alan LeHun is correct - the proper order is
>>>> determined by when one joins the queue at the end of the pit lane.
>>>
>>> Spoken like a gentleman!
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not likely to come up more than once a millennium, but clearly,
>>>>>>> there should be rules in place about start order. It's absurd that
>>>>>>> the position of a driver's pit box should play a role in the start
>>>>>>> order when the race is restarting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are rules.  Someone on the team should have had the
>>>>>> responsibility of telling the drivers what they were.
>>>>> So show this rule.
>>>>
>>>> Current sporting regs 42.1(c):
>>>>
>>>> "Any other car entering the pit lane during the formation laps may
>>>> re-join the track but must enter the pit lane after the safety car
>>>> returns to the pits and start the sprint qualifying session or the
>>>> race from the end of the pit lane in the order they get there."
>>>>
>>>
>>> And given that the race isn't actually happening prior to the
>>> restart, I think they should rewrite this rule so that all cars that
>>> choose to pit for tires remain in the order they were to maintain if
>>> didn't pit.
>>
>> A different scenario if all cars told to return to the pits, and
>> restart from there.
>>
>> But pitting this time was OPTIONAL. They chose to do it, and suffer
>> the consequences.
>
> But some of those consequences were the result of of the placement of
> pit boxes.
>
>>
>>
>>> Yes: those who choose to pit should have to follow anyone who doesn't
>>> choose to do so, but why in the world should the order change based
>>> on pit stall position?
>>
>> Didn't. The difference was the servicing time and when they could have
>> slotted back out into the queue. FIFO if servicing times all equal. If
>> slow servicing, tough.
>
> You're simply wrong about this.
>
> They couldn't NOT have all slotted back out...
>
> ...because the spaces between cars were less in time than that necessary
> to pull over, stop, get tires and get back in line.
>
> Yes: if precisely TWO cars stop, it doesn't matter.
>
> But it was many more than two cars.

But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do it, you
bear the consequences of it.

geoff

On 2021-08-03 4:24 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 4/08/2021 10:06 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-03 2:37 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 4/08/2021 8:20 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-03 10:39 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>> On 8/3/2021 12:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 7:07 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The correct procedure is to wait until the queue starts moving
>>>>>>> and slot into one's correct position, based on the order cars
>>>>>>> entered the pits at the end of the formation lap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it? Where is that codified, exactly?
>>>>>
>>>>> I find I was wrong, and Alan LeHun is correct - the proper order is
>>>>> determined by when one joins the queue at the end of the pit lane.
>>>>
>>>> Spoken like a gentleman!
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not likely to come up more than once a millennium, but
>>>>>>>> clearly,
>>>>>>>> there should be rules in place about start order. It's absurd that
>>>>>>>> the position of a driver's pit box should play a role in the start
>>>>>>>> order when the race is restarting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are rules.  Someone on the team should have had the
>>>>>>> responsibility of telling the drivers what they were.
>>>>>> So show this rule.
>>>>>
>>>>> Current sporting regs 42.1(c):
>>>>>
>>>>> "Any other car entering the pit lane during the formation laps may
>>>>> re-join the track but must enter the pit lane after the safety car
>>>>> returns to the pits and start the sprint qualifying session or the
>>>>> race from the end of the pit lane in the order they get there."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And given that the race isn't actually happening prior to the
>>>> restart, I think they should rewrite this rule so that all cars that
>>>> choose to pit for tires remain in the order they were to maintain if
>>>> didn't pit.
>>>
>>> A different scenario if all cars told to return to the pits, and
>>> restart from there.
>>>
>>> But pitting this time was OPTIONAL. They chose to do it, and suffer
>>> the consequences.
>>
>> But some of those consequences were the result of of the placement of
>> pit boxes.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes: those who choose to pit should have to follow anyone who
>>>> doesn't choose to do so, but why in the world should the order
>>>> change based on pit stall position?
>>>
>>> Didn't. The difference was the servicing time and when they could
>>> have slotted back out into the queue. FIFO if servicing times all
>>> equal. If slow servicing, tough.
>>
>> You're simply wrong about this.
>>
>> They couldn't NOT have all slotted back out...
>>
>> ...because the spaces between cars were less in time than that
>> necessary to pull over, stop, get tires and get back in line.
>>
>> Yes: if precisely TWO cars stop, it doesn't matter.
>>
>> But it was many more than two cars.
>
>
> One hundred cars pull in, in order. They all stop for 2 seconds in their
> boxes, wherever they may be. They all pull out out again. How is this
> not in the same order as they came in ? Is that too difficult to
> comprehend ?

What you fail to comprehend is that it isn't possible to pull out just
any time you want.

>
> BUT there was no necessity for ANY order to be followed. It was a
> voluntary pit-stop, not mandatory. So the order should have been (and
> was, apart from RUS) whatever order they finished their stop and
> proceeded to the pit-exit line, and if some were slower stops than
> others then they had to fit in line where they could.

It isn't all about slower stops.

100 cars pull in all doing the pit lane speed limit, each with only as
single car length between them. Each F1 car is about 18 feet long, and
so with the cars two car lengths from nose of one to nose of the next,
that means a car is going by any pit box ever half second (80kph is
about 72ft/s and 36 feet nose to nose). So the entire train takes 50
seconds to pass by.

The lead car is in the first slot.

His stop is over from pulling out to wanting to pull back into line in
(say) 6 seconds, only...

....there is not gap in the line of cars passing by his pit box, so they
have to hold his release.

Do you get it yet?

On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 4/08/2021 10:06 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-03 2:37 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 4/08/2021 8:20 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-03 10:39 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>> On 8/3/2021 12:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 7:07 a.m., Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The correct procedure is to wait until the queue starts moving
>>>>>>> and slot into one's correct position, based on the order cars
>>>>>>> entered the pits at the end of the formation lap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it? Where is that codified, exactly?
>>>>>
>>>>> I find I was wrong, and Alan LeHun is correct - the proper order is
>>>>> determined by when one joins the queue at the end of the pit lane.
>>>>
>>>> Spoken like a gentleman!
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not likely to come up more than once a millennium, but
>>>>>>>> clearly,
>>>>>>>> there should be rules in place about start order. It's absurd that
>>>>>>>> the position of a driver's pit box should play a role in the start
>>>>>>>> order when the race is restarting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are rules.  Someone on the team should have had the
>>>>>>> responsibility of telling the drivers what they were.
>>>>>> So show this rule.
>>>>>
>>>>> Current sporting regs 42.1(c):
>>>>>
>>>>> "Any other car entering the pit lane during the formation laps may
>>>>> re-join the track but must enter the pit lane after the safety car
>>>>> returns to the pits and start the sprint qualifying session or the
>>>>> race from the end of the pit lane in the order they get there."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And given that the race isn't actually happening prior to the
>>>> restart, I think they should rewrite this rule so that all cars that
>>>> choose to pit for tires remain in the order they were to maintain if
>>>> didn't pit.
>>>
>>> A different scenario if all cars told to return to the pits, and
>>> restart from there.
>>>
>>> But pitting this time was OPTIONAL. They chose to do it, and suffer
>>> the consequences.
>>
>> But some of those consequences were the result of of the placement of
>> pit boxes.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes: those who choose to pit should have to follow anyone who
>>>> doesn't choose to do so, but why in the world should the order
>>>> change based on pit stall position?
>>>
>>> Didn't. The difference was the servicing time and when they could
>>> have slotted back out into the queue. FIFO if servicing times all
>>> equal. If slow servicing, tough.
>>
>> You're simply wrong about this.
>>
>> They couldn't NOT have all slotted back out...
>>
>> ...because the spaces between cars were less in time than that
>> necessary to pull over, stop, get tires and get back in line.
>>
>> Yes: if precisely TWO cars stop, it doesn't matter.
>>
>> But it was many more than two cars.
>
> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do it, you
> bear the consequences of it.

It's absurd: the race is not yet on.

Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is not yet on?

On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:

>>
>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do it, you
>> bear the consequences of it.
>
> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>
> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is not yet on?

I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going off, and
all the cars racing around a bend.

geoff

On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>
>>>
>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do it,
>>> you bear the consequences of it.
>>
>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>
>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is not
>> yet on?
>
> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going off, and
> all the cars racing around a bend.

All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went out.

I guess you didn't notice that.

On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do it,
>>>> you bear the consequences of it.
>>>
>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>
>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is not
>>> yet on?
>>
>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going off, and
>> all the cars racing around a bend.
>
> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went out.
>
> I guess you didn't notice that.

That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from the Start.

geoff

On 2021-08-03 9:17 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do it,
>>>>> you bear the consequences of it.
>>>>
>>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>>
>>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is not
>>>> yet on?
>>>
>>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going off,
>>> and all the cars racing around a bend.
>>
>> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went out.
>>
>> I guess you didn't notice that.
>
>
> That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from the Start.

Yes: it was a restart.

But that still means that the order is held until after the grid has
formed up and the race green flag drops again (lights go out again).

You don't get to swap the order out on the track, so why should you be
allowed to do it in the pit lane?

On 4/08/2021 4:28 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-03 9:17 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do it,
>>>>>> you bear the consequences of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is not
>>>>> yet on?
>>>>
>>>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going off,
>>>> and all the cars racing around a bend.
>>>
>>> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went out.
>>>
>>> I guess you didn't notice that.
>>
>>
>> That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from the Start.
>
> Yes: it was a restart.
>
> But that still means that the order is held until after the grid has
> formed up and the race green flag drops again (lights go out again).

Apparently not when they pit, and nor it should !

> You don't get to swap the order out on the track, so why should you be
> allowed to do it in the pit lane?

Because it was the teams' decision to pit, not compulsory.

Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
started, or all cede their gained places back to him.

geoff

geoff

On 2021-08-03 10:12 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 4/08/2021 4:28 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-03 9:17 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do
>>>>>>> it, you bear the consequences of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is
>>>>>> not yet on?
>>>>>
>>>>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going off,
>>>>> and all the cars racing around a bend.
>>>>
>>>> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went out.
>>>>
>>>> I guess you didn't notice that.
>>>
>>>
>>> That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from the Start.
>>
>> Yes: it was a restart.
>>
>> But that still means that the order is held until after the grid has
>> formed up and the race green flag drops again (lights go out again).
>
> Apparently not when they pit, and nor it should !

The race hasn't restarted.

You aren't allowed to overtake on track before the race restarts.

>
>
>> You don't get to swap the order out on the track, so why should you be
>> allowed to do it in the pit lane?
>
> Because it was the teams' decision to pit, not compulsory.
>
> Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
> order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
> started, or all cede their gained places back to him.

You realize that is actually the rule...

....right?

On 4/08/2021 5:18 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-03 10:12 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> On 4/08/2021 4:28 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-03 9:17 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do
>>>>>>>> it, you bear the consequences of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is
>>>>>>> not yet on?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going off,
>>>>>> and all the cars racing around a bend.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you didn't notice that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from the
>>>> Start.
>>>
>>> Yes: it was a restart.
>>>
>>> But that still means that the order is held until after the grid has
>>> formed up and the race green flag drops again (lights go out again).
>>
>> Apparently not when they pit, and nor it should !
>
> The race hasn't restarted.
>
> You aren't allowed to overtake on track before the race restarts.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> You don't get to swap the order out on the track, so why should you
>>> be allowed to do it in the pit lane?
>>
>> Because it was the teams' decision to pit, not compulsory.
>>
>> Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
>> order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
>> started, or all cede their gained places back to him.
>
> You realize that is actually the rule...
>
> ...right?

So they all ceded their gained places back to HAM, or were penalised the
same as RUS ?

geoff

On 2021-08-04 3:53 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 4/08/2021 5:18 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-03 10:12 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 4/08/2021 4:28 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:17 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do
>>>>>>>>> it, you bear the consequences of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is
>>>>>>>> not yet on?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going
>>>>>>> off, and all the cars racing around a bend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess you didn't notice that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from the
>>>>> Start.
>>>>
>>>> Yes: it was a restart.
>>>>
>>>> But that still means that the order is held until after the grid has
>>>> formed up and the race green flag drops again (lights go out again).
>>>
>>> Apparently not when they pit, and nor it should !
>>
>> The race hasn't restarted.
>>
>> You aren't allowed to overtake on track before the race restarts.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You don't get to swap the order out on the track, so why should you
>>>> be allowed to do it in the pit lane?
>>>
>>> Because it was the teams' decision to pit, not compulsory.
>>>
>>> Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
>>> order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
>>> started, or all cede their gained places back to him.
>>
>> You realize that is actually the rule...
>>
>> ...right?
>
>
> So they all ceded their gained places back to HAM, or were penalised the
> same as RUS ?

Did you even WATCH the race?

No: they did not ceded their places back to Hamilton...

....because they all waited for Hamilton to go past before they left the
pit lane.

And before you ask how Hamilton then ended up behind, it was because he
then chose to pit while the race was on and he wasn't a whole pit delta
time ahead of second place.

Russell was penalized because he ran up to the front of the queue in the
slow lane; passing cars as he did so.

Passing isn't allowed in the pit lane.

On 5/08/2021 11:03 am, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-04 3:53 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> On 4/08/2021 5:18 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-03 10:12 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:28 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:17 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to do
>>>>>>>>>> it, you bear the consequences of it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race is
>>>>>>>>> not yet on?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going
>>>>>>>> off, and all the cars racing around a bend.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess you didn't notice that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from the
>>>>>> Start.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes: it was a restart.
>>>>>
>>>>> But that still means that the order is held until after the grid
>>>>> has formed up and the race green flag drops again (lights go out
>>>>> again).
>>>>
>>>> Apparently not when they pit, and nor it should !
>>>
>>> The race hasn't restarted.
>>>
>>> You aren't allowed to overtake on track before the race restarts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You don't get to swap the order out on the track, so why should you
>>>>> be allowed to do it in the pit lane?
>>>>
>>>> Because it was the teams' decision to pit, not compulsory.
>>>>
>>>> Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
>>>> order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
>>>> started, or all cede their gained places back to him.
>>>
>>> You realize that is actually the rule...
>>>
>>> ...right?
>>
>>
>> So they all ceded their gained places back to HAM, or were penalised
>> the same as RUS ?
>
> Did you even WATCH the race?
>
> No: they did not ceded their places back to Hamilton...
>
> ...because they all waited for Hamilton to go past before they left the
> pit lane.
>
> And before you ask how Hamilton then ended up behind, it was because he
> then chose to pit while the race was on and he wasn't a whole pit delta
> time ahead of second place.
>
> Russell was penalized because he ran up to the front of the queue in the
> slow lane; passing cars as he did so.
>
> Passing isn't allowed in the pit lane.

Exactly. Which is why RUS was penalised !

geoff

On Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 5:03:52 PM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:

> Passing isn't allowed in the pit lane.

You dont like passing period.
You pussy.

On 2021-08-04 4:07 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 5/08/2021 11:03 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-04 3:53 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 4/08/2021 5:18 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-03 10:12 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:28 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:17 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to
>>>>>>>>>>> do it, you bear the consequences of it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race
>>>>>>>>>> is not yet on?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going
>>>>>>>>> off, and all the cars racing around a bend.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went
>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess you didn't notice that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from the
>>>>>>> Start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes: it was a restart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that still means that the order is held until after the grid
>>>>>> has formed up and the race green flag drops again (lights go out
>>>>>> again).
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently not when they pit, and nor it should !
>>>>
>>>> The race hasn't restarted.
>>>>
>>>> You aren't allowed to overtake on track before the race restarts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't get to swap the order out on the track, so why should
>>>>>> you be allowed to do it in the pit lane?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because it was the teams' decision to pit, not compulsory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
>>>>> order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
>>>>> started, or all cede their gained places back to him.
>>>>
>>>> You realize that is actually the rule...
>>>>
>>>> ...right?
>>>
>>>
>>> So they all ceded their gained places back to HAM, or were penalised
>>> the same as RUS ?
>>
>> Did you even WATCH the race?
>>
>> No: they did not ceded their places back to Hamilton...
>>
>> ...because they all waited for Hamilton to go past before they left
>> the pit lane.
>>
>> And before you ask how Hamilton then ended up behind, it was because
>> he then chose to pit while the race was on and he wasn't a whole pit
>> delta time ahead of second place.
>>
>> Russell was penalized because he ran up to the front of the queue in
>> the slow lane; passing cars as he did so.
>>
>> Passing isn't allowed in the pit lane.
>
> Exactly. Which is why RUS was penalised !

But you said:

Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
started, or all cede their gained places back to him."

What did you mean if you weren't implying that that did not happen?

On 5/08/2021 11:21 am, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-08-04 4:07 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> On 5/08/2021 11:03 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-04 3:53 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>> On 4/08/2021 5:18 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-03 10:12 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:28 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:17 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to
>>>>>>>>>>>> do it, you bear the consequences of it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race
>>>>>>>>>>> is not yet on?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going
>>>>>>>>>> off, and all the cars racing around a bend.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights went
>>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I guess you didn't notice that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from
>>>>>>>> the Start.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes: it was a restart.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that still means that the order is held until after the grid
>>>>>>> has formed up and the race green flag drops again (lights go out
>>>>>>> again).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently not when they pit, and nor it should !
>>>>>
>>>>> The race hasn't restarted.
>>>>>
>>>>> You aren't allowed to overtake on track before the race restarts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You don't get to swap the order out on the track, so why should
>>>>>>> you be allowed to do it in the pit lane?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because it was the teams' decision to pit, not compulsory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
>>>>>> order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
>>>>>> started, or all cede their gained places back to him.
>>>>>
>>>>> You realize that is actually the rule...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So they all ceded their gained places back to HAM, or were penalised
>>>> the same as RUS ?
>>>
>>> Did you even WATCH the race?
>>>
>>> No: they did not ceded their places back to Hamilton...
>>>
>>> ...because they all waited for Hamilton to go past before they left
>>> the pit lane.
>>>
>>> And before you ask how Hamilton then ended up behind, it was because
>>> he then chose to pit while the race was on and he wasn't a whole pit
>>> delta time ahead of second place.
>>>
>>> Russell was penalized because he ran up to the front of the queue in
>>> the slow lane; passing cars as he did so.
>>>
>>> Passing isn't allowed in the pit lane.
>>
>> Exactly. Which is why RUS was penalised !
>
> But you said:
>
> Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
> order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
> started, or all cede their gained places back to him."
>
> What did you mean if you weren't implying that that did not happen?

Implying that the whole pit/not-pit restart was ridiculous. Because if
pitting HAM could not have got out of his pit-box to be first to the
exit line - because the other cars would still be filing past when he
was ready to leave, and other cars would have been out of their stops in
front of him .... as you said, and is patently obvious. . Maybe I should
prefix sarcasm with a (S) first or something.

The race should have had a proper *grid* re-start in the order they were
in when the red-flag was signaled.

However it did all make for a fun race.

geoff

On 2021-08-04 10:44 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 5/08/2021 11:21 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-04 4:07 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 5/08/2021 11:03 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-04 3:53 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>> On 4/08/2021 5:18 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 10:12 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:28 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:17 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 4:13 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 9:06 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/08/2021 11:47 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-08-03 4:32 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But still, the pit-stop was voluntary. And if you decide to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it, you bear the consequences of it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's absurd: the race is not yet on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why should the order of pit boxes come into it when the race
>>>>>>>>>>>> is not yet on?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I must have imagined the 5 red lights lighting up, then going
>>>>>>>>>>> off, and all the cars racing around a bend.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All the "passing" in the pits happened before those lights
>>>>>>>>>> went out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I guess you didn't notice that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That was a restart. The race was already under way, 'on' from
>>>>>>>>> the Start.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes: it was a restart.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But that still means that the order is held until after the grid
>>>>>>>> has formed up and the race green flag drops again (lights go out
>>>>>>>> again).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apparently not when they pit, and nor it should !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The race hasn't restarted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You aren't allowed to overtake on track before the race restarts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You don't get to swap the order out on the track, so why should
>>>>>>>> you be allowed to do it in the pit lane?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because it was the teams' decision to pit, not compulsory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept
>>>>>>> in order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before
>>>>>>> they started, or all cede their gained places back to him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You realize that is actually the rule...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...right?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So they all ceded their gained places back to HAM, or were
>>>>> penalised the same as RUS ?
>>>>
>>>> Did you even WATCH the race?
>>>>
>>>> No: they did not ceded their places back to Hamilton...
>>>>
>>>> ...because they all waited for Hamilton to go past before they left
>>>> the pit lane.
>>>>
>>>> And before you ask how Hamilton then ended up behind, it was because
>>>> he then chose to pit while the race was on and he wasn't a whole pit
>>>> delta time ahead of second place.
>>>>
>>>> Russell was penalized because he ran up to the front of the queue in
>>>> the slow lane; passing cars as he did so.
>>>>
>>>> Passing isn't allowed in the pit lane.
>>>
>>> Exactly. Which is why RUS was penalised !
>>
>> But you said:
>>
>> Following your 'logic', those who had pitted, and had they kept in
>> order, should also have waited for HAM to go past them before they
>> started, or all cede their gained places back to him."
>>
>> What did you mean if you weren't implying that that did not happen?
>
>
>
>
> Implying that the whole pit/not-pit restart was ridiculous. Because if
> pitting HAM could not have got out of his pit-box to be first to the
> exit line - because the other cars would still be filing past when he
> was ready to leave, and other cars would have been out of their stops in
> front of him .... as you said, and is patently obvious. . Maybe I should
> prefix sarcasm with a (S) first or something.

Please. Now you're ret-conning.

>
> The race should have had a proper *grid* re-start in the order they were
> in when the red-flag was signaled.
>
> However it did all make for a fun race.

There's nothing wrong with the idea of letting the drivers change tires.

But it's a basic principle of racing that you can't overtake until after
the green flag drops. So if you do allow stopping for tires before the
race has restarted, then the order of the cars that stop should not
change. If you're the lead car of the pack that enters the pits, you
should be the lead car when you leave the pits. Letting the random order
of pit boxes be a determining factor is absurd (at least you FINALLY
realize that it's not as simple as "if you lose places in the pits, it
can only be because you did a slow pit stop").

No. Let the cars pit, but preserve the order just as you would if you
had multiple cars starting from the pit lane after the formation lap at
the start of the race.

Those that choose not to pit... ...well there's no reasonable way other
than letting all those that choose to start from the grid race after the
green flag has dropped, and cars starting from the pit lane have to wait
until the field goes by.

On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 1:10:38 AM UTC-6, Alan Baker wrote:

> Now you're ret-conning.

lol