On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams simply
>>>>> demonstrates your long-running antipathy towards Hamilton.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
>>>>
>>>
>>> LOL.
>>>
>>> It must upset you deeply that so many people have expressed
>>> disbelief over the years.
>>>
>>
>> Nope. Sorry.
>
> Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
>

Wow. Wrong again.

Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.

On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:16:45 AM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> Wow. Wrong again.

you forgot to say sorry
you fucking pussy

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> >>>
> > > > > > Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams simply
> > > > > > demonstrates your long-running antipathy towards Hamilton.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > LOL.
> > > >
> > > > It must upset you deeply that so many people have expressed
> > > > disbelief over the years.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Nope. Sorry.
> >
> > Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
> >
>
> Wow. Wrong again.
>
> Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.

I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over the years and
defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.

Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.

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On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams simply
>>>>>>> demonstrates your long-running antipathy towards Hamilton.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL.
>>>>>
>>>>> It must upset you deeply that so many people have expressed
>>>>> disbelief over the years.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Sorry.
>>>
>>> Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
>>>
>>
>> Wow. Wrong again.
>>
>> Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.
>
> I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over the years and
> defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
>
> Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
>

You claim I must be "upset".

I'm not.

Do you understand now?

:-)

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > Alan wrote:
> >>>>>
> > > > > > > > Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams
> > > > > > > > simply demonstrates your long-running antipathy towards
> > > > > > > > Hamilton.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LOL.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It must upset you deeply that so many people have expressed
> > > > > > disbelief over the years.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope. Sorry.
> > > >
> > > > Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Wow. Wrong again.
> > >
> > > Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.
> >
> > I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over the years and
> > defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
> >
> > Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
> >
>
> You claim I must be "upset".
>
> I'm not.
>

I already surmised that you claimed as much and responded.

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On 2021-12-19 3:59 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams
>>>>>>>>> simply demonstrates your long-running antipathy towards
>>>>>>>>> Hamilton.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It must upset you deeply that so many people have expressed
>>>>>>> disbelief over the years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. Sorry.
>>>>>
>>>>> Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wow. Wrong again.
>>>>
>>>> Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.
>>>
>>> I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over the years and
>>> defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
>>>
>>> Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
>>>
>>
>> You claim I must be "upset".
>>
>> I'm not.
>>
>
> I already surmised that you claimed as much and responded.
>

Really?

What post of mine led to that surmise.

Go ahead and quote it.

:-)

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-19 3:59 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > > > Alan wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams
> > > > > > > > > > simply demonstrates your long-running antipathy
> > > > > > > > > > towards Hamilton.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > LOL.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It must upset you deeply that so many people have
> > > > > > > > expressed disbelief over the years.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nope. Sorry.
> > > > > >

^^^^^

> > > > > > Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow. Wrong again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.
> > > >
> > > > I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over the years
> > > > and defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
> > > >
> > > > Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You claim I must be "upset".
> > >
> > > I'm not.
> > >
> >
> > I already surmised that you claimed as much and responded.
> >
>
> Really?
>
> What post of mine led to that surmise.
>
> Go ahead and quote it.

FFS you infantile little twat, I have above and so have you. I have now
added emphasis for the weak of mind.

I think that is enough of your drunken, drugged or plain retarded
nonsense for one night.

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On 2021-12-19 4:34 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-19 3:59 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams
>>>>>>>>>>> simply demonstrates your long-running antipathy
>>>>>>>>>>> towards Hamilton.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LOL.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It must upset you deeply that so many people have
>>>>>>>>> expressed disbelief over the years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope. Sorry.
>>>>>>>
>
> ^^^^^
>
>>>>>>> Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow. Wrong again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over the years
>>>>> and defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You claim I must be "upset".
>>>>
>>>> I'm not.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I already surmised that you claimed as much and responded.
>>>
>>
>> Really?
>>
>> What post of mine led to that surmise.
>>
>> Go ahead and quote it.
>
> FFS you infantile little twat, I have above and so have you. I have now
> added emphasis for the weak of mind.
>
> I think that is enough of your drunken, drugged or plain retarded
> nonsense for one night.
>

That's where I say it didn't upset me.

You're supposed to quote where I said something that could be
interpreted as me being upset.

Try again.

:-)

On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 3:27:23 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> Try again.

blow yourself idiot

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-19 4:34 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2021-12-19 3:59 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Alan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a
> > > > > > > > > > > > Williams simply demonstrates your long-running
> > > > > > > > > > > > antipathy towards Hamilton.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply
> > > > > > > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > LOL.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It must upset you deeply that so many people have
> > > > > > > > > > expressed disbelief over the years.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nope. Sorry.
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > ^^^^^
> >
> > > > > > > > Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wow. Wrong again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over the
> > > > > > years and defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You claim I must be "upset".
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I already surmised that you claimed as much and responded.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Really?
> > >
> > > What post of mine led to that surmise.
> > >
> > > Go ahead and quote it.
> >
> > FFS you infantile little twat, I have above and so have you. I have
> > now added emphasis for the weak of mind.
> >
> > I think that is enough of your drunken, drugged or plain retarded
> > nonsense for one night.
> >
>
> That's where I say it didn't upset me.
>

Quite.

> You're supposed to quote where I said something that could be
> interpreted as me being upset.
>

No. You seem to have tied yourself in knots. Perhaps you were upset.

> Try again.
>

No. I think I've indulged your stupidity quite enough.

We can summarise that plenty of people think you are prejudiced against
Lewis and they have said as much over the years and you claim it
doesn't upset you.

:-)

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On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 13:28:37 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:

>On 2021-12-18 12:44 p.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 10:09:11 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-12-18 4:38 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:37:35 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2021-12-17 2:22 p.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 11:49:44 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2021-12-17 9:53 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 19:48:07 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-16 3:51 p.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 20:04:05 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-15 7:07 p.m., Philip wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <xn0n6nvnu39k4v8008@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> bigbird.nospam.usenet@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7/8 WDC; GOAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's some participation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> GOAT??????????
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamilton made a lucky/clever (choose one) decision to join Mercedes when he
>>>>>>>>>>>> did. If Alonso, Vettel or probably half a dozen other drivers had got that
>>>>>>>>>>>> seat, they would be the one with the full trophy cabinet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Rosberg, in the same Mercedes, was able to get a WDC. And George
>>>>>>>>>>>> Russell was able to just jump in to the Mercedes and go faster than anybody
>>>>>>>>>>>> else first time out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So well done Mercedes on their 8th Constructors Championship, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>> driver was never anything more than a cog in the machine, and very rarely
>>>>>>>>>>>> did anything exceptional with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The driver is clearly much more than just a cog.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, Hamilton 387.5 points, Bottas 226; Verstappen 395.5 points,
>>>>>>>>>> Perez190 tells its own tale.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW, glad to see you changing your tune at last, you insisted for
>>>>>>>>>> rather a long time that that the driver is only a small part of it,
>>>>>>>>>> that it's really all down to the car!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Being a small part doesn't mean he's no part.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If teh driver is only a small part of it, what's your explanation for
>>>>>>>> the massive points gap between Hamiltion and Bottas and between
>>>>>>>> Verstappen and Perez?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at it the other way around.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the driver is a large part of the performance of the package, what's
>>>>>>> your explanation for Russell being so fast in the Mercedes (a car he had
>>>>>>> to be shoehorned into) versus his performance in the Williams?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You first - what's your explanation for the massive points gap between
>>>>>> Hamiltion and Bottas and between Verstappen and Perez?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. I've said they are a much smaller part than the car is. It doesn't
>>>>> mean they aren't important. Hamilton is better than Bottas. Verstappen
>>>>> is better than Perez.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Apparently, you consider one driver in one race [1] to somehow
>>>> diminish Hamilton being 71% ahead of Bottas in points and Verstappen
>>>> scoring more than double Perez.
>>>
>>> No. I don't consider it diminishes Hamilton at all.
>>
>> So why have you been trying to downplay his impact all year? And why
>> are you ignoring the Verstappen/Perez difference.
>
>I'm not.
>
>But clearly the car is a far larger part of the equation.
>
>Russell in a Mercedes is instantly a threat to win.
>
>Hamilton in a Williams would be lucky to score points.
>
>>>
>>> But it does very much point out how much it is the CAR that matters.
>>
>> No one is arguing that a driver needs a good car to become WDC but the
>> points difference between Ham and Ver clearly illustrate the
>> difference made by exceptional driving abilities.
>>
>> Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams simply
>> demonstrates your long-running antipathy towards Hamilton.
>
>Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.

Your record of trying to diminish Hamilton's achievements is well
established.

>
>>
>>>
>>> Ask yourself the opposite question if you like:
>>>
>>> Put Hamilton in the Williams, and how often would he have scored points
>>> this year?
>>
>> A *lot* more than most other drivers out there including, I suspect,
>> Russell but I'll be delighted if I'm proved wrong in that next year.
>
>You know as well as I do that Hamilton would only have scored a few more
>than Russell.
>
>Russell demonstrated he's instantly good enough to win if you put him in
>a Mercedes, and discounting the weirdness that was Belgium, his best
>finish all year was 8th in Hungary.
>
>He only scored points in 4 GPs all year.
>
>He was only as many as two places out of the points two other times.
>
>Hamilton would have no chance to win in the Williams unless something
>bizarre happened. None at all.
>
>The car is simply much more important than the driver.

On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 14:19:04 -0000 (UTC), "Bigbird"
<bigbird.nospam.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Alan wrote:
>
>> > Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams simply
>> > demonstrates your long-running antipathy towards Hamilton.
>>
>> Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
>>
>
>LOL.
>
>It must upset you deeply that so many people have expressed disbelief
>over the years.

It probably does upset him because the inability to recognise one's
own biases is a pretty common human characteristic.

Bernie no fan of knighthood.....that seems about wight. :-D

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a38560324/does-f1-champion-lewis-hamilton-deserve-a-knighthood

leonard hofstatder wrote:

> Bernie no fan of knighthood.....that seems about wight. :-D
>
>
https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a38560324/does-f1-champion-lewis-hamilton-deserve-a-knighthood

Everyone is entitled ( ;-) ) to their opinion but sometimes it would be
better if it were not given a voice.

Many sportsmen have been knighted and Lewis does not stand out among
them as any less deserving; only in that any former heads of their
sports have not voiced their resentment but rather been happy for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sporting_knights_and_dames

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On 2021-12-21 2:05 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 14:19:04 -0000 (UTC), "Bigbird"
> <bigbird.nospam.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Alan wrote:
>>
>>>> Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams simply
>>>> demonstrates your long-running antipathy towards Hamilton.
>>>
>>> Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
>>>
>>
>> LOL.
>>
>> It must upset you deeply that so many people have expressed disbelief
>> over the years.
>
> It probably does upset him because the inability to recognise one's
> own biases is a pretty common human characteristic.

Nope.

You imagine an antipathy where none exists.

I don't agree with the hero worship of Hamilton, but I acknowledge he is
one of the finest F1 drivers who have raced over the past decade.

Do I think he's in the running for the greatest of all time? No. It's
hard to compare drivers of different eras, but I'll go with the
consensus of Senna, Clark, or Fangio probably taking it.

On 2021-12-21 6:55 a.m., leonard hofstatder wrote:
> Bernie no fan of knighthood.....that seems about wight.  :-D
>
> https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a38560324/does-f1-champion-lewis-hamilton-deserve-a-knighthood
>

If any sports figure deserves a knighthood, Hamilton certainly does.

On 2021-12-21 7:30 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> leonard hofstatder wrote:
>
>> Bernie no fan of knighthood.....that seems about wight. :-D
>>
>>
> https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a38560324/does-f1-champion-lewis-hamilton-deserve-a-knighthood
>
> Everyone is entitled ( ;-) ) to their opinion but sometimes it would be
> better if it were not given a voice.
>
> Many sportsmen have been knighted and Lewis does not stand out among
> them as any less deserving; only in that any former heads of their
> sports have not voiced their resentment but rather been happy for them.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sporting_knights_and_dames
>

I suspect this is nothing but pure envy from Bernie.

If HE hasn't received a knighthood, then no one in F1 should get one.

On 2021-12-21 2:04 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 13:28:37 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-18 12:44 p.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 10:09:11 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-12-18 4:38 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:37:35 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2021-12-17 2:22 p.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 11:49:44 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-17 9:53 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 19:48:07 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-16 3:51 p.m., Martin Harran wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2021 20:04:05 -0500, Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-15 7:07 p.m., Philip wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <xn0n6nvnu39k4v8008@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bigbird.nospam.usenet@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7/8 WDC; GOAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's some participation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GOAT??????????
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamilton made a lucky/clever (choose one) decision to join Mercedes when he
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did. If Alonso, Vettel or probably half a dozen other drivers had got that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seat, they would be the one with the full trophy cabinet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even Rosberg, in the same Mercedes, was able to get a WDC. And George
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Russell was able to just jump in to the Mercedes and go faster than anybody
>>>>>>>>>>>>> else first time out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So well done Mercedes on their 8th Constructors Championship, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver was never anything more than a cog in the machine, and very rarely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did anything exceptional with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The driver is clearly much more than just a cog.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, Hamilton 387.5 points, Bottas 226; Verstappen 395.5 points,
>>>>>>>>>>> Perez190 tells its own tale.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, glad to see you changing your tune at last, you insisted for
>>>>>>>>>>> rather a long time that that the driver is only a small part of it,
>>>>>>>>>>> that it's really all down to the car!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Being a small part doesn't mean he's no part.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If teh driver is only a small part of it, what's your explanation for
>>>>>>>>> the massive points gap between Hamiltion and Bottas and between
>>>>>>>>> Verstappen and Perez?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look at it the other way around.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the driver is a large part of the performance of the package, what's
>>>>>>>> your explanation for Russell being so fast in the Mercedes (a car he had
>>>>>>>> to be shoehorned into) versus his performance in the Williams?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You first - what's your explanation for the massive points gap between
>>>>>>> Hamiltion and Bottas and between Verstappen and Perez?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. I've said they are a much smaller part than the car is. It doesn't
>>>>>> mean they aren't important. Hamilton is better than Bottas. Verstappen
>>>>>> is better than Perez.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently, you consider one driver in one race [1] to somehow
>>>>> diminish Hamilton being 71% ahead of Bottas in points and Verstappen
>>>>> scoring more than double Perez.
>>>>
>>>> No. I don't consider it diminishes Hamilton at all.
>>>
>>> So why have you been trying to downplay his impact all year? And why
>>> are you ignoring the Verstappen/Perez difference.
>>
>> I'm not.
>>
>> But clearly the car is a far larger part of the equation.
>>
>> Russell in a Mercedes is instantly a threat to win.
>>
>> Hamilton in a Williams would be lucky to score points.

No rebuttal?

Of course not.

>>
>>>>
>>>> But it does very much point out how much it is the CAR that matters.
>>>
>>> No one is arguing that a driver needs a good car to become WDC but the
>>> points difference between Ham and Ver clearly illustrate the
>>> difference made by exceptional driving abilities.
>>>
>>> Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a Williams simply
>>> demonstrates your long-running antipathy towards Hamilton.
>>
>> Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply wrong.
>
> Your record of trying to diminish Hamilton's achievements is well
> established.

My record of understanding the fact that he has competed for almost his
entire F1 career in a dominant car is well established you mean.

>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ask yourself the opposite question if you like:
>>>>
>>>> Put Hamilton in the Williams, and how often would he have scored points
>>>> this year?
>>>
>>> A *lot* more than most other drivers out there including, I suspect,
>>> Russell but I'll be delighted if I'm proved wrong in that next year.
>>
>> You know as well as I do that Hamilton would only have scored a few more
>> than Russell.
>>
>> Russell demonstrated he's instantly good enough to win if you put him in
>> a Mercedes, and discounting the weirdness that was Belgium, his best
>> finish all year was 8th in Hungary.
>>
>> He only scored points in 4 GPs all year.
>>
>> He was only as many as two places out of the points two other times.
>>
>> Hamilton would have no chance to win in the Williams unless something
>> bizarre happened. None at all.
>>
>> The car is simply much more important than the driver.

Answer the question:

Does Hamilton have any chance at all to win if he's put in the Williams;
in the course of an ordinary race?

On Tuesday, December 21, 2021 at 8:54:31 AM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> Answer the question:

fuck off you piece of shit

On 2021-12-20 4:46 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-19 4:34 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-12-19 3:59 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Williams simply demonstrates your long-running
>>>>>>>>>>>>> antipathy towards Hamilton.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LOL.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It must upset you deeply that so many people have
>>>>>>>>>>> expressed disbelief over the years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope. Sorry.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> ^^^^^
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wow. Wrong again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over the
>>>>>>> years and defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You claim I must be "upset".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I already surmised that you claimed as much and responded.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Really?
>>>>
>>>> What post of mine led to that surmise.
>>>>
>>>> Go ahead and quote it.
>>>
>>> FFS you infantile little twat, I have above and so have you. I have
>>> now added emphasis for the weak of mind.
>>>
>>> I think that is enough of your drunken, drugged or plain retarded
>>> nonsense for one night.
>>>
>>
>> That's where I say it didn't upset me.
>>
>
> Quite.
>
>> You're supposed to quote where I said something that could be
>> interpreted as me being upset.
>>
>
> No. You seem to have tied yourself in knots. Perhaps you were upset.
>
>> Try again.
>>
>
> No. I think I've indulged your stupidity quite enough.
>
> We can summarise that plenty of people think you are prejudiced against
> Lewis and they have said as much over the years and you claim it
> doesn't upset you.

I claim it because it's true.

I simply recognize that a lot of his success is down to being in the
right car at the right time.

In 2007, he and Alonso were almost dead even.

In 2008, he was certainly better than his teammate Kovalainen

In 2009, the same, but the car wasn't sufficient to win the championship.

In 2010, he and Button were pretty close to level, but again the car
didn't have what it took.

In 2011, Button finished the season well up on him, mostly by virtue of
having had one fewer retirements (2 to Hamilton's 3).

In 2012, Hamilton definitely had the edge as he finished a little ahead
of Button despite having retired from 5 races to Button's 2. But again,
the car just wasn't capable of winning championships.

In 2013, he moved to Mercedes and guess what: he and Rosberg were pretty
much level after you account for Rosberg retiring two more times than
Hamilton.

In 2014 (the first of the turbo hybrid era), the car was clearly the
best of the new formula, and Rosberg and Hamilton finished close to each
other, with Ricciardo being a fairly distant 3rd in the WDC

And so on it went.

Hamilton was pretty much as quick as some other driver's capable of
winning WDCs themselves, but he wasn't far faster than either Button or
Alonso or even Rosberg.

I'm sorry these facts upset so many, but they are the facts.

Hamilton is among the very best of the F1 drivers of the last 15 years...

....but his championships are more about the car than they are about his
ability.

On Tuesday, December 21, 2021 at 9:19:15 AM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> I'm sorry

sorry is for pussys
you fucking pussy

On 22/12/2021 5:19 am, Alan wrote:
> On 2021-12-20 4:46 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>> Alan wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-12-19 4:34 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2021-12-19 3:59 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Williams simply demonstrates your long-running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> antipathy towards Hamilton.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It must upset you deeply that so many people have
>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed disbelief over the years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope. Sorry.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ^^^^^
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wow. Wrong again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look to the actual heart of your claim for your answer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over the
>>>>>>>> years and defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You claim I must be "upset".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I already surmised that you claimed as much and responded.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Really?
>>>>>
>>>>> What post of mine led to that surmise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go ahead and quote it.
>>>>
>>>> FFS you infantile little twat, I have above and so have you. I have
>>>> now added emphasis for the weak of mind.
>>>>
>>>> I think that is enough of your drunken, drugged or plain retarded
>>>> nonsense for one night.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's where I say it didn't upset me.
>>>
>>
>> Quite.
>>
>>> You're supposed to quote where I said something that could be
>>> interpreted as me being upset.
>>>
>>
>> No. You seem to have tied yourself in knots. Perhaps you were upset.
>>
>>> Try again.
>>>
>>
>> No. I think I've indulged your stupidity quite enough.
>>
>> We can summarise that plenty of people think you are prejudiced against
>> Lewis and they have said as much over the years and you claim it
>> doesn't upset you.
>
> I claim it because it's true.
>
> I simply recognize that a lot of his success is down to being in the
> right car at the right time.
>
> In 2007, he and Alonso were almost dead even.
>
> In 2008, he was certainly better than his teammate Kovalainen
>
> In 2009, the same, but the car wasn't sufficient to win the championship.
>
> In 2010, he and Button were pretty close to level, but again the car
> didn't have what it took.
>
> In 2011, Button finished the season well up on him, mostly by virtue of
> having had one fewer retirements (2 to Hamilton's 3).
>
> In 2012, Hamilton definitely had the edge as he finished a little ahead
> of Button despite having retired from 5 races to Button's 2. But again,
> the car just wasn't capable of winning championships.
>
> In 2013, he moved to Mercedes and guess what: he and Rosberg were pretty
> much level after you account for Rosberg retiring two more times than
> Hamilton.
>
> In 2014 (the first of the turbo hybrid era), the car was clearly the
> best of the new formula, and Rosberg and Hamilton finished close to each
> other, with Ricciardo being a fairly distant 3rd in the WDC
>
> And so on it went.
>
> Hamilton was pretty much as quick as some other driver's capable of
> winning WDCs themselves, but he wasn't far faster than either Button or
> Alonso or even Rosberg.
>
> I'm sorry these facts upset so many, but they are the facts.
>
> Hamilton is among the very best of the F1 drivers of the last 15 years...
>
> ...but his championships are more about the car than they are about his
> ability.

You forgot to mention HAM's rotten car luck in 2013. Maybe that was
because the other German car was being driven by a German. Or maybe not.

geoff

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-20 4:46 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2021-12-19 4:34 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2021-12-19 3:59 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Alan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Williams simply demonstrates your
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > long-running antipathy towards Hamilton.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > LOL.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It must upset you deeply that so many people
> > > > > > > > > > > > have expressed disbelief over the years.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Nope. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ^^^^^
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wow. Wrong again.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Look to the actual heart of your claim for your
> > > > > > > > > answer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over
> > > > > > > > the years and defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You claim I must be "upset".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I already surmised that you claimed as much and responded.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Really?
> > > > >
> > > > > What post of mine led to that surmise.
> > > > >
> > > > > Go ahead and quote it.
> > > >
> > > > FFS you infantile little twat, I have above and so have you. I
> > > > have now added emphasis for the weak of mind.
> > > >
> > > > I think that is enough of your drunken, drugged or plain
> > > > retarded nonsense for one night.
> > > >
> > >
> > > That's where I say it didn't upset me.
> > >
> >
> > Quite.
> >
> > > You're supposed to quote where I said something that could be
> > > interpreted as me being upset.
> > >
> >
> > No. You seem to have tied yourself in knots. Perhaps you were upset.
> >
> > > Try again.
> > >
> >
> > No. I think I've indulged your stupidity quite enough.
> >
> > We can summarise that plenty of people think you are prejudiced
> > against Lewis and they have said as much over the years and you
> > claim it doesn't upset you.
>
> I claim it because it's true.
>
> I simply recognize that a lot of his success is down to being in the
> right car at the right time.
>

Oh, it goes deeper than that. Of course your reputation may down to
being argumentative and contradictory but the result is similar. If
there is a 50/50 or even 80/20 call in favour of Hamilton you will be
the one against.

--
Bozo bin
Build
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-20 4:46 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2021-12-19 4:34 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > Alan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2021-12-19 3:59 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2021-12-19 3:12 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 2021-12-19 11:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Alan wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On 2021-12-19 9:19 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Alan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your pathetic comparison of a Mercedes to a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Williams simply demonstrates your
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > long-running antipathy towards Hamilton.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I have no such antipathy, you're simply
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > LOL.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It must upset you deeply that so many people
> > > > > > > > > > > > have expressed disbelief over the years.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Nope. Sorry.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ^^^^^
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Really, so you expect to be disbelieved.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wow. Wrong again.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Look to the actual heart of your claim for your
> > > > > > > > > answer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I need look nowhere. I have seen how you respond over
> > > > > > > > the years and defy anyone to have concluded otherwise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your lack of self-awareness is not a defence.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You claim I must be "upset".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I already surmised that you claimed as much and responded.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Really?
> > > > >
> > > > > What post of mine led to that surmise.
> > > > >
> > > > > Go ahead and quote it.
> > > >
> > > > FFS you infantile little twat, I have above and so have you. I
> > > > have now added emphasis for the weak of mind.
> > > >
> > > > I think that is enough of your drunken, drugged or plain
> > > > retarded nonsense for one night.
> > > >
> > >
> > > That's where I say it didn't upset me.
> > >
> >
> > Quite.
> >
> > > You're supposed to quote where I said something that could be
> > > interpreted as me being upset.
> > >
> >
> > No. You seem to have tied yourself in knots. Perhaps you were upset.
> >
> > > Try again.
> > >
> >
> > No. I think I've indulged your stupidity quite enough.
> >
> > We can summarise that plenty of people think you are prejudiced
> > against Lewis and they have said as much over the years and you
> > claim it doesn't upset you.
>
> I claim it because it's true.
>
> I simply recognize that a lot of his success is down to being in the
> right car at the right time.
>
> In 2007, he and Alonso were almost dead even.
>
> In 2008, he was certainly better than his teammate Kovalainen
>
> In 2009, the same, but the car wasn't sufficient to win the
> championship.
>
> In 2010, he and Button were pretty close to level, but again the car
> didn't have what it took.
>
> In 2011, Button finished the season well up on him, mostly by virtue
> of having had one fewer retirements (2 to Hamilton's 3).
>
> In 2012, Hamilton definitely had the edge as he finished a little
> ahead of Button despite having retired from 5 races to Button's 2.
> But again, the car just wasn't capable of winning championships.
>
> In 2013, he moved to Mercedes and guess what: he and Rosberg were
> pretty much level after you account for Rosberg retiring two more
> times than Hamilton.
>
> In 2014 (the first of the turbo hybrid era), the car was clearly the
> best of the new formula, and Rosberg and Hamilton finished close to
> each other, with Ricciardo being a fairly distant 3rd in the WDC
>

Have you ever done this for other drivers? Or is it just Hamilton's
success that you feel the need to qualify so frequently?

Shcumacher was often in the dominant in the "favoured" team and had
favoured stabs in that team but I didn't feel the need to use that to
belittle his fantastic drives.

> And so on it went.
>
> Hamilton was pretty much as quick as some other driver's capable of
> winning WDCs themselves, but he wasn't far faster than either Button
> or Alonso or even Rosberg.
>
> I'm sorry these facts upset so many, but they are the facts.
>
> Hamilton is among the very best of the F1 drivers of the last 15
> years...
>
> ...but his championships are more about the car than they are about
> his ability.

LOL. If you need to tell yourself that in order to diminish his
accomplishments then go ahead but feeling the need to emphasise it to
others so frequently will always look like conceit, sour grapes and
bias.

--
Bozo bin
Build
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 23/12/2021 1:30 am, Bigbird wrote:

>
> LOL. If you need to tell yourself that in order to diminish his
> accomplishments then go ahead but feeling the need to emphasise it to
> others so frequently will always look like conceit, sour grapes and
> bias.
>

Makes me think of my twist on a classic saying "Nobody made their own
coffee taste better by pissing in somebody else's".

geoff