https://nypost.com/2022/07/19/mets-push-back-jacob-degroms-simulated-game-due-to-soreness/

Of course as a fan I want a full recovery ASAP. I'm having my doubts if
we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again. It always seems to be something.

--
ernie k.
alreadydeleted9@hotmail.com

On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.

I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.

IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
> > I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point..
>
> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.

I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.

On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
>> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
>>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
>> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
>> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
>> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
>>
>> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
>
> I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.

Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
Scherzer's. Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.

On 7/24/22 00:41, *ernie wrote:
> Good chance that Cohen matches any offer

I love how everyone predicts what he is going to do. He is going to do
what his baseball people tell him to do. If he can't Fing pitch he is
not going to throw money at him for sentimental reasons.

On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:41:57 AM UTC-4, *ernie wrote:
> On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> >> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
> >>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
> >> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
> >> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
> >> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
> >>
> >> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
> >
> > I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.
> Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
> still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
> sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
> Scherzer's.

I find that hard to believe. I can see him getting offers, but not of that magnitude. They'd have to be crazy.....well maybe I just hit on it, the whole world HAS gone crazy, so who knows?

Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.

Yes, well, I've already said my piece.

On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:41:57 AM UTC-4, *ernie wrote:
> > On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> > >> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
> > >>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
> > >> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
> > >> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
> > >> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
> > >>
> > >> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
> > >
> > > I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out.. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.
> > Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
> > still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
> > sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
> > Scherzer's.
> I find that hard to believe. I can see him getting offers, but not of that magnitude. They'd have to be crazy.....well maybe I just hit on it, the whole world HAS gone crazy, so who knows?
> Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.
> Yes, well, I've already said my piece.

Welp, he throws tomorrow then comes back Thu I guess...lines up to prob face the lowly Nats. Been loving MiLB.TV this year...tomorrow's SYR game is a noon start so I know when I'll be killing an hour in front of the TV. Working from home post-Covid has its advantages.

On 7/26/2022 4:56 PM, Hass wrote:
> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
>> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:41:57 AM UTC-4, *ernie wrote:
>>> On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
>>>>> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
>>>>>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
>>>>> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
>>>>> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
>>>>> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.
>>> Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
>>> still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
>>> sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
>>> Scherzer's.
>> I find that hard to believe. I can see him getting offers, but not of that magnitude. They'd have to be crazy.....well maybe I just hit on it, the whole world HAS gone crazy, so who knows?
>> Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.
>> Yes, well, I've already said my piece.
>
> Welp, he throws tomorrow then comes back Thu I guess...lines up to prob face the lowly Nats. Been loving MiLB.TV this year...tomorrow's SYR game is a noon start so I know when I'll be killing an hour in front of the TV. Working from home post-Covid has its advantages.

Just to clarify for my own head; by SYR, do you mean SYRACUSE?

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:32:09 PM UTC-5, *ernie wrote:
> On 7/26/2022 4:56 PM, Hass wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
> >> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:41:57 AM UTC-4, *ernie wrote:
> >>> On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> >>>>> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
> >>>>>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
> >>>>> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
> >>>>> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
> >>>>> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.
> >>> Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
> >>> still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
> >>> sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
> >>> Scherzer's.
> >> I find that hard to believe. I can see him getting offers, but not of that magnitude. They'd have to be crazy.....well maybe I just hit on it, the whole world HAS gone crazy, so who knows?
> >> Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.
> >> Yes, well, I've already said my piece.
> >
> > Welp, he throws tomorrow then comes back Thu I guess...lines up to prob face the lowly Nats. Been loving MiLB.TV this year...tomorrow's SYR game is a noon start so I know when I'll be killing an hour in front of the TV. Working from home post-Covid has its advantages.
> Just to clarify for my own head; by SYR, do you mean SYRACUSE?

Yup...gets to throw to Alvarez today!

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:59:58 AM UTC-4, Hass wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:32:09 PM UTC-5, *ernie wrote:
> > On 7/26/2022 4:56 PM, Hass wrote:
> > > On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
> > >> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:41:57 AM UTC-4, *ernie wrote:
> > >>> On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
> > >>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> > >>>>> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
> > >>>>>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
> > >>>>> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
> > >>>>> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
> > >>>>> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.
> > >>> Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
> > >>> still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
> > >>> sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
> > >>> Scherzer's.
> > >> I find that hard to believe. I can see him getting offers, but not of that magnitude. They'd have to be crazy.....well maybe I just hit on it, the whole world HAS gone crazy, so who knows?
> > >> Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.
> > >> Yes, well, I've already said my piece.
> > >
> > > Welp, he throws tomorrow then comes back Thu I guess...lines up to prob face the lowly Nats. Been loving MiLB.TV this year...tomorrow's SYR game is a noon start so I know when I'll be killing an hour in front of the TV. Working from home post-Covid has its advantages.
> > Just to clarify for my own head; by SYR, do you mean SYRACUSE?
> Yup...gets to throw to Alvarez today!

It certainly could have gone better....4 IP, 4 runs, 2 hits (both HR), 3 BB, 6 K, 67 pitches, 41 strikes.
Of course the only result that really matters is that his arm is OK....or not.

We'll see.

On 7/27/2022 2:54 PM, tmp wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:59:58 AM UTC-4, Hass wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:32:09 PM UTC-5, *ernie wrote:
>>> On 7/26/2022 4:56 PM, Hass wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:41:57 AM UTC-4, *ernie wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
>>>>>>>> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
>>>>>>>> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
>>>>>>>> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.
>>>>>> Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
>>>>>> still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
>>>>>> sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
>>>>>> Scherzer's.
>>>>> I find that hard to believe. I can see him getting offers, but not of that magnitude. They'd have to be crazy.....well maybe I just hit on it, the whole world HAS gone crazy, so who knows?
>>>>> Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.
>>>>> Yes, well, I've already said my piece.
>>>>
>>>> Welp, he throws tomorrow then comes back Thu I guess...lines up to prob face the lowly Nats. Been loving MiLB.TV this year...tomorrow's SYR game is a noon start so I know when I'll be killing an hour in front of the TV. Working from home post-Covid has its advantages.
>>> Just to clarify for my own head; by SYR, do you mean SYRACUSE?
>> Yup...gets to throw to Alvarez today!
>
> It certainly could have gone better....4 IP, 4 runs, 2 hits (both HR), 3 BB, 6 K, 67 pitches, 41 strikes.
> Of course the only result that really matters is that his arm is OK....or not.
>
> We'll see.

If he delays it again, that's a good sign you won't see him till next
year. His problem lies between his ears.

*ernie <alreadydeleted9@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/27/2022 2:54 PM, tmp wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:59:58 AM UTC-4, Hass wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:32:09 PM UTC-5, *ernie wrote:
>>>> On 7/26/2022 4:56 PM, Hass wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:41:57 AM UTC-4, *ernie wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
>>>>>>>>> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
>>>>>>>>> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
>>>>>>>>> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.
>>>>>>> Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
>>>>>>> still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
>>>>>>> sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
>>>>>>> Scherzer's.
>>>>>> I find that hard to believe. I can see him getting offers, but not of that magnitude. They'd have to be crazy.....well maybe I just hit on it, the whole world HAS gone crazy, so who knows?
>>>>>> Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.
>>>>>> Yes, well, I've already said my piece.
>>>>>
>>>>> Welp, he throws tomorrow then comes back Thu I guess...lines up to prob face the lowly Nats. Been loving MiLB.TV this year...tomorrow's SYR game is a noon start so I know when I'll be killing an hour in front of the TV. Working from home post-Covid has its advantages.
>>>> Just to clarify for my own head; by SYR, do you mean SYRACUSE?
>>> Yup...gets to throw to Alvarez today!
>>
>> It certainly could have gone better....4 IP, 4 runs, 2 hits (both HR), 3 BB, 6 K, 67 pitches, 41 strikes.
>> Of course the only result that really matters is that his arm is OK....or not.
>>
>> We'll see.
>
>
> If he delays it again, that's a good sign you won't see him till next
> year. His problem lies between his ears.
>
>

I don't know about that. It is possible but nothing deGrom has ever
done seems to demonstrate this kind of emotional instability. It is
more likely that his arm can not handle the way he pitches, and he is
afraid to cripple himself.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 1:54:42 PM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:59:58 AM UTC-4, Hass wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:32:09 PM UTC-5, *ernie wrote:
> > > On 7/26/2022 4:56 PM, Hass wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
> > > >> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:41:57 AM UTC-4, *ernie wrote:
> > > >>> On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
> > > >>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> > > >>>>> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
> > > >>>>>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
> > > >>>>> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
> > > >>>>> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
> > > >>>>> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.
> > > >>> Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
> > > >>> still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
> > > >>> sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
> > > >>> Scherzer's.
> > > >> I find that hard to believe. I can see him getting offers, but not of that magnitude. They'd have to be crazy.....well maybe I just hit on it, the whole world HAS gone crazy, so who knows?
> > > >> Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.
> > > >> Yes, well, I've already said my piece.
> > > >
> > > > Welp, he throws tomorrow then comes back Thu I guess...lines up to prob face the lowly Nats. Been loving MiLB.TV this year...tomorrow's SYR game is a noon start so I know when I'll be killing an hour in front of the TV. Working from home post-Covid has its advantages.
> > > Just to clarify for my own head; by SYR, do you mean SYRACUSE?
> > Yup...gets to throw to Alvarez today!
> It certainly could have gone better....4 IP, 4 runs, 2 hits (both HR), 3 BB, 6 K, 67 pitches, 41 strikes.
> Of course the only result that really matters is that his arm is OK....or not.
>
> We'll see.

Threw a bunch of curveballs for some reason...more than the 1 he normally throws in a whole game. Watching it live, he didn't seem overly concerned, almost like he was just trying out all his pitches, whether the situation called for it or not. Alvarez looks like a high schooler on defense...I think they ended up stealing 6 bases on him. Framing was awful as deGrom would've had at least 3 more k's with an MLB caliber catcher. If they bring him up, stick him in for DH...he's not ready for prime time behind the plate. Haven't seen any of deGrom's postgame comments yet so no idea how he feels or if he thought his velocity was down. The stadium gun showed him less than average, but who knows how accurate that was. The commentators were worthless when it came to analysis.

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 7:03:31 PM UTC-4, Hass wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 1:54:42 PM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:59:58 AM UTC-4, Hass wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:32:09 PM UTC-5, *ernie wrote:
> > > > On 7/26/2022 4:56 PM, Hass wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 8:30:13 AM UTC-5, tmp wrote:
> > > > >> On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 12:41:57 AM UTC-4, *ernie wrote:
> > > > >>> On 7/22/2022 4:27 PM, tmp wrote:
> > > > >>>> On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 7:36:54 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> > > > >>>>> On 7/21/22 15:59, *ernie wrote:
> > > > >>>>>> I'm having my doubts if we'll ever see a healthy deGrom again.
> > > > >>>>> I have no doubts. I think Degrom, you might gets peek of outstanding
> > > > >>>>> pitching but never a healthy full season again. The guy blows up his
> > > > >>>>> arm pitching normally, so how can anything else be expected at this point.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> IMO, the Mets can not depend on Degrom in their future.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I'm not quite that negative on him, but close. I'll reserve judgement until we see what the Mets actually get out of him for the rest of this season. But if he ends up not pitching at all (or very little) for the rest of this season, he's probably going to be changing his mind about opting out. He's got a sure $32.5M coming to him next year with the Mets.
> > > > >>> Even if he doesn't throw one meaningful pitch this season, there will
> > > > >>> still be a couple of teams (like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and I'm
> > > > >>> sure a few more) that will offer him a contract at least as good as
> > > > >>> Scherzer's.
> > > > >> I find that hard to believe. I can see him getting offers, but not of that magnitude. They'd have to be crazy.....well maybe I just hit on it, the whole world HAS gone crazy, so who knows?
> > > > >> Good chance that Cohen matches any offer.
> > > > >> Yes, well, I've already said my piece.
> > > > >
> > > > > Welp, he throws tomorrow then comes back Thu I guess...lines up to prob face the lowly Nats. Been loving MiLB.TV this year...tomorrow's SYR game is a noon start so I know when I'll be killing an hour in front of the TV. Working from home post-Covid has its advantages.
> > > > Just to clarify for my own head; by SYR, do you mean SYRACUSE?
> > > Yup...gets to throw to Alvarez today!
> > It certainly could have gone better....4 IP, 4 runs, 2 hits (both HR), 3 BB, 6 K, 67 pitches, 41 strikes.
> > Of course the only result that really matters is that his arm is OK....or not.
> >
> > We'll see.
> Threw a bunch of curveballs for some reason...more than the 1 he normally throws in a whole game. Watching it live, he didn't seem overly concerned, almost like he was just trying out all his pitches, whether the situation called for it or not. Alvarez looks like a high schooler on defense...I think they ended up stealing 6 bases on him. Framing was awful as deGrom would've had at least 3 more k's with an MLB caliber catcher. If they bring him up, stick him in for DH...he's not ready for prime time behind the plate. Haven't seen any of deGrom's postgame comments yet so no idea how he feels or if he thought his velocity was down. The stadium gun showed him less than average, but who knows how accurate that was. The commentators were worthless when it came to analysis.

Interesting stuff about Alvarez. I doubt we see him until at least Sept, barring an emergency situation due to injuries. A bad (or just inexperienced) defensive catcher can really hurt a team.

On 7/27/22 20:51, tmp wrote:
> I doubt we see him until at least Sept, barring an emergency situation due to injuries. A bad (or just inexperienced) defensive catcher can really hurt a team.

Not worst than a 500 OPS+

On 7/27/22 20:51, tmp wrote:
> I doubt we see him until at least Sept, barring an emergency situation due to injuries. A bad (or just inexperienced) defensive catcher can really hurt a team.

correct a 48 OPS+

On 7/27/22 20:51, tmp wrote:
> I doubt we see him until at least Sept, barring an emergency situation due to injuries. A bad (or just inexperienced) defensive catcher can really hurt a team.

At least as measured by war the Mets catching is the worst in the NL at
MINUS 1.5 amd 3rd base is MINUS 1.2

Improve both those positions to league average can gain 2.7 OPS+ which
is an all-star level regular.

FWIW

On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 6:16:49 AM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> On 7/27/22 20:51, tmp wrote:
> > I doubt we see him until at least Sept, barring an emergency situation due to injuries. A bad (or just inexperienced) defensive catcher can really hurt a team.
> At least as measured by war the Mets catching is the worst in the NL at
> MINUS 1.5 amd 3rd base is MINUS 1.2
>
>
> Improve both those positions to league average can gain 2.7 OPS+ which
> is an all-star level regular.
>
> FWIW

Alvarez (by all accounts I've heard) is simply not ready to catch in the major leagues yet. If they want to DH him, fine, but the price to pay for that will be to slow down his development as a defensive catcher.

On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 6:16:49 AM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> On 7/27/22 20:51, tmp wrote:
> > I doubt we see him until at least Sept, barring an emergency situation due to injuries. A bad (or just inexperienced) defensive catcher can really hurt a team.
> At least as measured by war the Mets catching is the worst in the NL at
> MINUS 1.5 amd 3rd base is MINUS 1.2

Primarily due to hitting, as neither of the Mets 2 primary catchers (Nido, McCann) are good hitters - although they've gotten some big hits this year. Nido has certainly been chipping in recently. Both are solid and reliable defensively to my eyes.

On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 6:09:31 AM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> On 7/27/22 20:51, tmp wrote:
> > I doubt we see him until at least Sept, barring an emergency situation due to injuries. A bad (or just inexperienced) defensive catcher can really hurt a team.
> Not worst than a 500 OPS+

Oh yes, it definitely can be worse than that. A catcher who the pitching staff is not comfortable throwing to can adversely affect the pitching too. Wilson Ramos?
The trust has to be there. It wouldn't be fair to the kid to put him in that spot at 20. Again, as DH fine, if they want to got that way at some point.

On 7/28/22 09:32, tmp wrote:
> Oh yes, it definitely can be worse than that. A catcher who the pitching staff is not comfortable throwing to can adversely affect the pitching too. Wilson Ramos?
regardless of how comportable the pitchers are we can't have a catching
staff is an OPS+ of 0.50

They have to hit to be in the big leagues, let alone to be on a club
that projects itself to be a WS contender.

On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 7:42:59 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> On 7/28/22 09:32, tmp wrote:
> > Oh yes, it definitely can be worse than that. A catcher who the pitching staff is not comfortable throwing to can adversely affect the pitching too. Wilson Ramos?
> regardless of how comportable the pitchers are we can't have a catching
> staff is an OPS+ of 0.50
>
> They have to hit to be in the big leagues, let alone to be on a club
> that projects itself to be a WS contender.

FWIW, McCann's track record as a hitter (career .681 OPS ) is better than Nido's (.550), but he's been down twice now this year with significant injuries. He should be back soon, as he just started his rehab. There also could be a trade for a catcher coming up.

tmp <tpfeife1@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 7:42:59 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
>> On 7/28/22 09:32, tmp wrote:
>> > Oh yes, it definitely can be worse than that. A catcher who the pitching staff is not comfortable throwing to can adversely affect the pitching too. Wilson Ramos?
>> regardless of how comportable the pitchers are we can't have a catching
>> staff is an OPS+ of 0.50
>>
>> They have to hit to be in the big leagues, let alone to be on a club
>> that projects itself to be a WS contender.
>
> FWIW, McCann's track record as a hitter (career .681 OPS ) is better than Nido's (.550), but he's been down twice now this year with significant injuries. He should be back soon, as he just started his rehab. There also could be a trade for a catcher coming up.

The mets Defensive runs saved for catching for the year is 4th in the
league at 9 defensive runs saved above average. That would be 19 total
runs saved including team factors, which is right in the middle of the
pack.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2022-specialpos_c-fielding.shtml

they are third in the league based on framing... however they measure
that for an extra 5 runs.

Nido is a -1.3 WPA which wipes out the production from Pete Alosno

MCcan is - 0.2 WPA games

It is hard to do WORSE than this.

Nido is a whopping -12/5 runs BtRuns - which wipes out the offensive
production of Brandon Nimo

The Mets catching is 3rd worst in baseball at -1.5 WAR... which in
theory means they pick up 1.5 games in the standing by having a
replacement AAA catcher instead of the ones they have.

Can you say Choo Choo Coleman?

The 1962 Mets had a -1.4 WAR catching corps

On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 11:28:13 AM UTC-4, Ruben Safir wrote:
> tmp <tpfe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 7:42:59 PM UTC-4, Popping Mad wrote:
> >> On 7/28/22 09:32, tmp wrote:
> >> > Oh yes, it definitely can be worse than that. A catcher who the pitching staff is not comfortable throwing to can adversely affect the pitching too. Wilson Ramos?
> >> regardless of how comportable the pitchers are we can't have a catching
> >> staff is an OPS+ of 0.50
> >>
> >> They have to hit to be in the big leagues, let alone to be on a club
> >> that projects itself to be a WS contender.
> >
> > FWIW, McCann's track record as a hitter (career .681 OPS ) is better than Nido's (.550), but he's been down twice now this year with significant injuries. He should be back soon, as he just started his rehab. There also could be a trade for a catcher coming up.
> The mets Defensive runs saved for catching for the year is 4th in the
> league at 9 defensive runs saved above average. That would be 19 total
> runs saved including team factors, which is right in the middle of the
> pack.
>
>
> https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2022-specialpos_c-fielding.shtml
>
> they are third in the league based on framing... however they measure
> that for an extra 5 runs.
>
> Nido is a -1.3 WPA which wipes out the production from Pete Alosno
>
> MCcan is - 0.2 WPA games
>
>
> It is hard to do WORSE than this.
>
> Nido is a whopping -12/5 runs BtRuns - which wipes out the offensive
> production of Brandon Nimo
>
> The Mets catching is 3rd worst in baseball at -1.5 WAR... which in
> theory means they pick up 1.5 games in the standing by having a
> replacement AAA catcher instead of the ones they have.

Somehow, I really doubt that. Anyway, all I really meant was that it would probably be unwise, for defensive reasons, to insert Franciso Alvarez as the Mets 1st string catcher at this point in this season, and at this point in his career. And I doubt they will be doing that. I certainly wasn't trying to say that the Mets couldn't use more hitting from the catching position than they have now. Of course they could.

>
>
> Can you say Choo Choo Coleman?
Sure I remember (vaguely) seeing him play, but was too young to know or care how bad he was.
Roger Craig once said: "Choo Choo would give you the sign and then look down to see what it was."

>
> The 1962 Mets had a -1.4 WAR catching corps
And that was probably the team's strongest area!

On 8/2/22 21:25, tmp wrote:
> Sure I remember (vaguely) seeing him play, but was too young to know or care how bad he was.
> Roger Craig once said: "Choo Choo would give you the sign and then look down to see what it was."
>

This one really happened: Charlie Neal, who roomed with Coleman in 1962,
was ragging him in spring training of 1963, saying, “I bet you don’t
know my name.” To which Coleman replied, “You No. 4.”

Then there is the Ralph Kiner story about interviewing Coleman in 1962,
and asking, “What’s your wife’s name, and what’s she like?” Coleman
replied, “Her name is Mrs. Coleman — and she likes me, bub.”

On Sunday, Coleman shook his head politely and said it never happened
that way. Kiner, on the phone from Florida, softly said it did.

Another part of the legend is that Kiner asked Coleman how he got his
nickname and that Coleman said he did not know.

“When I was 8 or 9, I ran around a lot,” Coleman said Sunday. “My
friends called me Choo Choo because I was fast.”

https://cantstopthebleeding.com/kiner-korrected-choo-choo-coleman-sets-the-record-straight