On 9/25/2021 9:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 12:33:27 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/25/2021 1:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry, I don't buy the "penalize"characteristic about having
>>> the wealthy pay more taxes.
>>>
>>> Civilization costs money. As I said, if a certain amount of
>>> money is required, it makes much more sense to get it from
>>> those who have an excess than from those who have little.
>>>
>>> Yes, I've seen the data showing the wealthy pay more. The
>>> question is, do they pay _enough_ more. If they are building
>>> immense mansions along roads the county can't afford to
>>> properly pave, I'd say they aren't paying enough.
>>>
>> For USA the top 10% of earners pay half the income tax.
>>
>> What is enough for you?
>
> I don't know. More than that. Enough to reduce U.S. financial disparity
> to, say, the level of Europe?
> https://www.npr.org/2019/12/05/783001561/why-americas-1-percenters-are-richer-than-europe-s
>
>> Couldn't you say 'Our system is highly tilted against those
>> who work and invest' and call it a victory?
>
> No, Andrew. I worked and invested and am doing extremely well. I don't feel the system was
> tilted against me.
>
> More to the point, today I again drove by that enormous new mansion on a multi-
> acre lot surrounded by a hand-built stone wall over four feet high. I didn't see any
> evidence of anything tilting against them. And of course I could list dozens or hundreds
> of other examples.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

I did not mean that in any way regarding your personal
station in life.

For the nation generally, structural impedimenta to
investment, creativity and growth hurt everyone. It's a
classic structural inefficiency. As more power and money
accrues to government, the actual society is poorer in
things not made, things not done, things not built.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/25/2021 9:17 PM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>> everyone what the actually need.
>>
>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>
>> John B.
>
> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>

Can't hang him for that. He's already dead.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/25/2021 10:43 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 19:17:45 -0700 (PDT), "russellseaton1@yahoo.com"
> <ritzannaseaton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>>> everyone what the actually need.
>>>
>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>>
>>> John B.
>>
>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>
> Actually, I always though that the CCC and the WPA were great ideas.
> Not only did it give people jobs but it actually accomplished
> something. A couple of summers I worked for the Vermont Forest Service
> and number of state parks and forests had signs that This or That was
> built by the CCC.
>
> Unemployment really has to be taken in the context of the times. I can
> remember back when I was a child being told "Don't play with those
> people. They are on the town". "On the town" being a synonym for being
> on the Dole. It was actually shameful to be unemployed in those
> days... How things have changed (:-)
>
>

We are not better for it.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>>> everyone what the actually need.
>>>
>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>>
>>> John B.
>>
>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
>

Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
the extent one is a different term for the other).

When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
understands insurance!". And so it was.

[1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
companion/ minder.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
> >>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
> >>> everyone what the actually need.
> >>>
> >>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
> >>> where they could get rich (:-)
> >>>
> >>> John B.
> >>
> >> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> > Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
> >
> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
> the extent one is a different term for the other).
>
> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
> understands insurance!". And so it was.
>
> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
> companion/ minder.

Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
> >>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
> >>> everyone what the actually need.
> >>>
> >>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
> >>> where they could get rich (:-)
> >>>
> >>> John B.
> >>
> >> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> > Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
> >
> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
> the extent one is a different term for the other).
>
> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
> understands insurance!". And so it was.
>
> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
> companion/ minder.

Andrew, perhaps because I am older I have a different view of what went on. In WW II - all of the women's husbands were off to war, a large segment never to return. It was the WOMEN who wanted and needed a source of support in their old age. And all around them were old people and little else to remind them they were still young.

Was FDR's social security a ponzi scheme? Most assuredly at the time since the age at which you became eligible for it was 2 years more than the average lifespan of a man and only one year less than the average age of death of women. So only a select few could ever hope to gain any income from it.

But it was properly designed and indeed as people returned from the war and they began contributing to it and the average age of death rose, it became a significant savings device. Most people were economically unwise and could not actually save for their retirements and SS forced them to.

Russell is supposedly a CPA and supposedly had economics training and that moron doesn't understand the first thing about economics.

Will SS break down? Well, it wouldn't if American was not bringing millions of illegals from every part of the world in here. Under the original planning of the USCIS, the population in the US would grow more self supporting (richer if you will) and rich people have a FAR lower birth rate since they do not need children to support them in their old age as was the world normal. So the population would finally reach a constant and the percentage of working people to retired would remain constant and it would be easy to maintain a balance.

But the Democrats who made the SS system simply to supply courage in the time of need, have now decided to destroy it to maintain power. As in everything else they have done, the Democrats us fear and loathing to take the freedoms from the population.

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 9:30:38 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo..com wrote:
> > >> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
> > >>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
> > >>> everyone what the actually need.
> > >>>
> > >>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
> > >>> where they could get rich (:-)
> > >>>
> > >>> John B.
> > >>
> > >> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> > > Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
> > >
> > Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
> > the extent one is a different term for the other).
> >
> > When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
> > putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
> > It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
> > made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
> > understands insurance!". And so it was.
> >
> > [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
> > companion/ minder.
> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.

Yes indeed Jay - the MAGA set are the homeless and the criminals burning down police stations in Portland and Seattle. You certainly have an objective observations entirely i opposition to reality.

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 9:39:00 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 9:30:38 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > > >>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
> > > >>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
> > > >>> everyone what the actually need.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
> > > >>> where they could get rich (:-)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> John B.
> > > >>
> > > >> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> > > > Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
> > > >
> > > Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
> > > the extent one is a different term for the other).
> > >
> > > When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
> > > putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
> > > It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
> > > made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
> > > understands insurance!". And so it was.
> > >
> > > [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
> > > companion/ minder.
> > Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
> Yes indeed Jay - the MAGA set are the homeless and the criminals burning down police stations in Portland and Seattle. You certainly have an objective observations entirely i opposition to reality.

You are Exhibit 1 for the narcissistic lunatic MAGA set, every day spewing vitriol, unfounded conspiracy theories and fact-free nonsense -- and drawing welfare benefits. For every Antifa, there was a Proud Boy. The unhinged on both sides, and none get a pass. https://tinyurl.com/8m473u7z

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:26:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 9:39:00 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Yes indeed Jay - the MAGA set are the homeless and the criminals burning down police stations in Portland and Seattle. You certainly have an objective observations entirely i opposition to reality.
> You are Exhibit 1 for the narcissistic lunatic MAGA set, every day spewing vitriol, unfounded conspiracy theories and fact-free nonsense -- and drawing welfare benefits. For every Antifa, there was a Proud Boy. The unhinged on both sides, and none get a pass. https://tinyurl.com/8m473u7z

Tell me Jay, where in Portland was that picture taken? Antifa destroyed most of Berkeley's small businesses and they couldn't give a shit less it the owners were black, afghan refugees or Iranians. I'm sure you see what your eventual outcome will be. We will morn your loss.

On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
>>>>>
>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> John B.
>>>>
>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
>>>
>> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
>> the extent one is a different term for the other).
>>
>> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
>> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
>> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
>> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
>> understands insurance!". And so it was.
>>
>> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
>> companion/ minder.
>
> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>
>

I'm with you in principle.

NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
highway spending is another excellent example- once
productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
and the results are scant.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:44:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo..com wrote:
> >>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
> >>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
> >>>>> everyone what the actually need.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
> >>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John B.
> >>>>
> >>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> >>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
> >>>
> >> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
> >> the extent one is a different term for the other).
> >>
> >> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
> >> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
> >> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
> >> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
> >> understands insurance!". And so it was.
> >>
> >> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
> >> companion/ minder.
> >
> > Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> >
> >
> I'm with you in principle.
>
> NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
> how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
> US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
> pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
> Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
> not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
> highway spending is another excellent example- once
> productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
> and the results are scant.
You could close down the entire government and see nothing negative. So what they will do is to shut down people's social security checks. The Democrat's means of defending their treason.

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:48:15 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:44:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>
> > I'm with you in principle.
> >
> > NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
> > how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
> > US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
> > pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
> > Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
> > not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
> > highway spending is another excellent example- once
> > productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
> > and the results are scant.
> You could close down the entire government and see nothing negative. So what they will do is to shut down people's social security checks. The Democrat's means of defending their treason.

My view that this is the real War of the Worlds and that people like Jay with his twisted left coast view of things actually believes he is on the side of right and that they will win. I really have to wonder what will go through his mind if he ever bothers to listen to those 60,000 college kids in a college football stadium chanting "Fuck Joe Biden". That is a generation he cannot understand and hates. They are his enemies because they have the ability to look and see what is happening that he will never ever have himself.

On 9/26/2021 12:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:44:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>>>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>>>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>>>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>>>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
>>>>>
>>>> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
>>>> the extent one is a different term for the other).
>>>>
>>>> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
>>>> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
>>>> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
>>>> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
>>>> understands insurance!". And so it was.
>>>>
>>>> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
>>>> companion/ minder.
>>>
>>> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
>>>
>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>
>>>
>> I'm with you in principle.
>>
>> NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
>> how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
>> US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
>> pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
>> Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
>> not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
>> highway spending is another excellent example- once
>> productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
>> and the results are scant.
> You could close down the entire government and see nothing negative. So what they will do is to shut down people's social security checks. The Democrat's means of defending their treason.
>

For various values of 'you'.
The Treasury, the military and the Courts are Constitutional
so that might take a whole lot of 'you'.

I agree mostly. There's a lot of expensive useless out
there; easy targets.

One of my favorite people ever, Clare Booth Luce, wrote that
she'd close HEW in a minute except there are so many
employees they themselves would become a social problem (!).

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 11:45:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/26/2021 12:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:44:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
> >>>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
> >>>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
> >>>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> John B.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> >>>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
> >>>> the extent one is a different term for the other).
> >>>>
> >>>> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
> >>>> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
> >>>> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
> >>>> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
> >>>> understands insurance!". And so it was.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
> >>>> companion/ minder.
> >>>
> >>> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
> >>>
> >>> -- Jay Beattie.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I'm with you in principle.
> >>
> >> NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
> >> how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
> >> US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
> >> pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
> >> Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
> >> not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
> >> highway spending is another excellent example- once
> >> productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
> >> and the results are scant.
> > You could close down the entire government and see nothing negative. So what they will do is to shut down people's social security checks. The Democrat's means of defending their treason.
> >
> For various values of 'you'.
> The Treasury, the military and the Courts are Constitutional
> so that might take a whole lot of 'you'.
>
> I agree mostly. There's a lot of expensive useless out
> there; easy targets.
>
> One of my favorite people ever, Clare Booth Luce, wrote that
> she'd close HEW in a minute except there are so many
> employees they themselves would become a social problem (!).

The military works regardless of what the rest of the government is doing. What do you think that the Treasury does? It would probably astonish you to know that for every $1000 in circulation you have perhaps one $10 bill. All the rest is in faceless financial transactions. So, the Treasury Department is almost meaningless. What are the courts doing now? Besides supporting a bunch of leaches on society? When laws become meaningless, courts become non-essential.

On 9/26/2021 1:50 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 11:45:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/26/2021 12:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:44:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>>>>>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>>>>>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>>>>>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>>>>>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
>>>>>> the extent one is a different term for the other).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
>>>>>> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
>>>>>> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
>>>>>> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
>>>>>> understands insurance!". And so it was.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
>>>>>> companion/ minder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I'm with you in principle.
>>>>
>>>> NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
>>>> how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
>>>> US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
>>>> pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
>>>> Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
>>>> not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
>>>> highway spending is another excellent example- once
>>>> productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
>>>> and the results are scant.
>>> You could close down the entire government and see nothing negative. So what they will do is to shut down people's social security checks. The Democrat's means of defending their treason.
>>>
>> For various values of 'you'.
>> The Treasury, the military and the Courts are Constitutional
>> so that might take a whole lot of 'you'.
>>
>> I agree mostly. There's a lot of expensive useless out
>> there; easy targets.
>>
>> One of my favorite people ever, Clare Booth Luce, wrote that
>> she'd close HEW in a minute except there are so many
>> employees they themselves would become a social problem (!).
>
> The military works regardless of what the rest of the government is doing. What do you think that the Treasury does? It would probably astonish you to know that for every $1000 in circulation you have perhaps one $10 bill. All the rest is in faceless financial transactions. So, the Treasury Department is almost meaningless. What are the courts doing now? Besides supporting a bunch of leaches on society? When laws become meaningless, courts become non-essential.
>

Well, then! Start a petition and amend the Constitution.

You only need 60 Legislatures to put it before Congress and
then just 75 State Legislatures to ratify. You could start
this afternoon!

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 1:31:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/26/2021 1:50 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 11:45:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 9/26/2021 12:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:44:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
> >>>>>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
> >>>>>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
> >>>>>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> John B.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> >>>>>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
> >>>>>> the extent one is a different term for the other).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
> >>>>>> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
> >>>>>> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
> >>>>>> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
> >>>>>> understands insurance!". And so it was.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
> >>>>>> companion/ minder.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -- Jay Beattie.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> I'm with you in principle.
> >>>>
> >>>> NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
> >>>> how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
> >>>> US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
> >>>> pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
> >>>> Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
> >>>> not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
> >>>> highway spending is another excellent example- once
> >>>> productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
> >>>> and the results are scant.
> >>> You could close down the entire government and see nothing negative. So what they will do is to shut down people's social security checks. The Democrat's means of defending their treason.
> >>>
> >> For various values of 'you'.
> >> The Treasury, the military and the Courts are Constitutional
> >> so that might take a whole lot of 'you'.
> >>
> >> I agree mostly. There's a lot of expensive useless out
> >> there; easy targets.
> >>
> >> One of my favorite people ever, Clare Booth Luce, wrote that
> >> she'd close HEW in a minute except there are so many
> >> employees they themselves would become a social problem (!).
> >
> > The military works regardless of what the rest of the government is doing. What do you think that the Treasury does? It would probably astonish you to know that for every $1000 in circulation you have perhaps one $10 bill.. All the rest is in faceless financial transactions. So, the Treasury Department is almost meaningless. What are the courts doing now? Besides supporting a bunch of leaches on society? When laws become meaningless, courts become non-essential.
> >
> Well, then! Start a petition and amend the Constitution.
>
> You only need 60 Legislatures to put it before Congress and
> then just 75 State Legislatures to ratify. You could start
> this afternoon!
>

Apropos of that, Tom should do something -- anything -- but whine all day long on a bicycle usenet group. As a retiree and a Federally supported leach, he should devote his time to making his community a better place, even if it is only picking-up trash along the road or filling bags of apples at the food bank (surprisingly hard work, BTW). Maybe go down to the local cycling center and donate time fixing bikes. He can go annoy his state legislators -- monitor legislation and go to the committee meetings. Anyone who signs in gets to talk, subject to getting cut off for being crazy (always hard to watch). People who want to make a difference can make a difference -- Frank, SMS, I and many others on this NG prove the point. In fact, I'm about to write a fancy letter to PBOT complaining about a new and dangerous bicycle chute on my commute route -- see if I still have any clout down there. https://www.leagle.com/decision/19951583891p2d69211571

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 1:52:47 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 1:31:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 9/26/2021 1:50 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 11:45:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> On 9/26/2021 12:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:44:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>> On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> > >>>>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>>>>> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
> > >>>>>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
> > >>>>>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
> > >>>>>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> John B.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> > >>>>>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
> > >>>>>> the extent one is a different term for the other).
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
> > >>>>>> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
> > >>>>>> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
> > >>>>>> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
> > >>>>>> understands insurance!". And so it was.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
> > >>>>>> companion/ minder.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -- Jay Beattie.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> I'm with you in principle.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
> > >>>> how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
> > >>>> US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
> > >>>> pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
> > >>>> Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
> > >>>> not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
> > >>>> highway spending is another excellent example- once
> > >>>> productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
> > >>>> and the results are scant.
> > >>> You could close down the entire government and see nothing negative.. So what they will do is to shut down people's social security checks. The Democrat's means of defending their treason.
> > >>>
> > >> For various values of 'you'.
> > >> The Treasury, the military and the Courts are Constitutional
> > >> so that might take a whole lot of 'you'.
> > >>
> > >> I agree mostly. There's a lot of expensive useless out
> > >> there; easy targets.
> > >>
> > >> One of my favorite people ever, Clare Booth Luce, wrote that
> > >> she'd close HEW in a minute except there are so many
> > >> employees they themselves would become a social problem (!).
> > >
> > > The military works regardless of what the rest of the government is doing. What do you think that the Treasury does? It would probably astonish you to know that for every $1000 in circulation you have perhaps one $10 bill. All the rest is in faceless financial transactions. So, the Treasury Department is almost meaningless. What are the courts doing now? Besides supporting a bunch of leaches on society? When laws become meaningless, courts become non-essential.
> > >
> > Well, then! Start a petition and amend the Constitution.
> >
> > You only need 60 Legislatures to put it before Congress and
> > then just 75 State Legislatures to ratify. You could start
> > this afternoon!
> >
> Apropos of that, Tom should do something -- anything -- but whine all day long on a bicycle usenet group. As a retiree and a Federally supported leach, he should devote his time to making his community a better place, even if it is only picking-up trash along the road or filling bags of apples at the food bank (surprisingly hard work, BTW). Maybe go down to the local cycling center and donate time fixing bikes. He can go annoy his state legislators -- monitor legislation and go to the committee meetings. Anyone who signs in gets to talk, subject to getting cut off for being crazy (always hard to watch). People who want to make a difference can make a difference -- Frank, SMS, I and many others on this NG prove the point. In fact, I'm about to write a fancy letter to PBOT complaining about a new and dangerous bicycle chute on my commute route -- see if I still have any clout down there. https://www.leagle.com/decision/19951583891p2d69211571

Sure must make you feel bad that I put together the 11 speed on the Airborne and then fixed a rattle on the Douglas which turned out to be a slipped front derailleur cable. Seems like a lot of work for someone who you claim to be spending all of their time on the Internet. You must be confusing me with that other Air Force vet. You know, the one that can't even get on a bike but loves to look things up on the Internet that he can't understand and pasting there here where you can agree with him.

I expect you to be looking out after yourself but instead you're trying to pretend that you're looking out for simpleton Democrats. As if that was possible.

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 1:31:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/26/2021 1:50 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 11:45:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 9/26/2021 12:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 10:44:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>>>> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
> >>>>>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
> >>>>>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
> >>>>>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> John B.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
> >>>>>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
> >>>>>> the extent one is a different term for the other).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
> >>>>>> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
> >>>>>> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
> >>>>>> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
> >>>>>> understands insurance!". And so it was.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
> >>>>>> companion/ minder.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -- Jay Beattie.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> I'm with you in principle.
> >>>>
> >>>> NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
> >>>> how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
> >>>> US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
> >>>> pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
> >>>> Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
> >>>> not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
> >>>> highway spending is another excellent example- once
> >>>> productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
> >>>> and the results are scant.
> >>> You could close down the entire government and see nothing negative. So what they will do is to shut down people's social security checks. The Democrat's means of defending their treason.
> >>>
> >> For various values of 'you'.
> >> The Treasury, the military and the Courts are Constitutional
> >> so that might take a whole lot of 'you'.
> >>
> >> I agree mostly. There's a lot of expensive useless out
> >> there; easy targets.
> >>
> >> One of my favorite people ever, Clare Booth Luce, wrote that
> >> she'd close HEW in a minute except there are so many
> >> employees they themselves would become a social problem (!).
> >
> > The military works regardless of what the rest of the government is doing. What do you think that the Treasury does? It would probably astonish you to know that for every $1000 in circulation you have perhaps one $10 bill.. All the rest is in faceless financial transactions. So, the Treasury Department is almost meaningless. What are the courts doing now? Besides supporting a bunch of leaches on society? When laws become meaningless, courts become non-essential.
> >
> Well, then! Start a petition and amend the Constitution.
>
> You only need 60 Legislatures to put it before Congress and
> then just 75 State Legislatures to ratify. You could start
> this afternoon!

Are you suggesting that Congress would do ANYTHING to reduce their own power?

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> > A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>> > his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>> > everyone what the actually need.
>> >
>> > And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>> > where they could get rich (:-)
>> >
>> > John B.
>>
>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.

Nope Tommy, the "social security" plan that Roosevelt initiated is
exactly what socialist and communist countries have done, since at
about 1917. Step 1 grab the money, or simply don't pay the common
folks very much and (2) give some back when they get old.

You see, many, perhaps most, of the population never make a single
plan for the future and are usually broke by payday so the government
steps in and takes care of these feckless fools.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:20:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/25/2021 8:35 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:06:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/24/2021 10:55 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:42:49 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/24/2021 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at the expense
>>>>>>> of the middle and lower classes. But any proposal to raise taxes on the
>>>>>>> rich gets painted as "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank, the "rich" always get richer at the expense of the lower
>>>>>> classes, how can it be any different? And lets be honest, your "job"
>>>>>> wasn't to educate some poor, improvised, layabout, it was to educate
>>>>>> those who could afford to pay your price. and, as you have told us,
>>>>>> you are pretty well off these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am pretty well off. But I don't believe the rich must always get
>>>>> richer at the expense of the lower classes - at least, not to the degree
>>>>> it happens in this country.
>>>>>
>>>>> America is a land of extreme income disparity, and even more extreme
>>>>> wealth disparity. Those disparities are far larger than in many
>>>>> prosperous European and Asian countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see that situation as being good for the nation, or for society.
>>>>> We've already seen disastrous effects of disenfranchized folks voting
>>>>> for a shyster celebrity who pretended that he would single-handedly fix
>>>>> their problems. ("Those jobs are all coming back! Don't sell your houses!")
>>>>>
>>>>> There are historical examples of similar situations triggering
>>>>> revolutions, resulting in much bloodshed and misery but ultimately no
>>>>> real improvement. We don't need that.
>>>>
>>>> I recently looked up "rich folks" on the Web and it seems that
>>>> something like 64% of them are rich because of their own efforts. And,
>>>> I read, that Only 21% of millionaires received any inheritance at all.
>>>> So... is it justifiable to effectively penalize these "get up and go"
>>>> people because the multitudes don't have the push to get ahead?
>>>
>>> Sorry, I don't buy the "penalize"characteristic about having the wealthy
>>> pay more taxes.
>>>
>>> Civilization costs money. As I said, if a certain amount of money is
>>> required, it makes much more sense to get it from those who have an
>>> excess than from those who have little.
>>>
>>> Yes, I've seen the data showing the wealthy pay more. The question is,
>>> do they pay _enough_ more. If they are building immense mansions along
>>> roads the county can't afford to properly pave, I'd say they aren't
>>> paying enough.
>>
>> A rather socialistic attitude. Essentially what Russia tried... and
>> it didn't work.
>>
>> What you are missing is, what appears to be a fact, that some people
>> are more important then others and deserve more of the common pie.
>> Should a chap who discovers a treatment for AIDS, for example, deserve
>> more? Or the guy that developed the pacemaker that is keeping me
>> alive? Or anyone else that accomplished something?
>>
>> Or even the guy that taught bunch of people to be engineers? Or me,
>> building oil drilling sites in the jungle and thus increasing the
>> volume of crude being produced and indirectly decreasing the cost of
>> gasoline in America?
>>
>> But whining about bumpy roads? A fair method would be to simply
>> increase the tax on those that use the road. Perhaps by how much they
>> actually use the roads by an increase in motor vehicle fuel taxes. And
>> bicycle rider, who complain the loudest don't pay any tax at all and
>> ride around on bicycles that might cost more then $10,000. Shouldn't
>> they be taxed? After all they appear to want private "roads".
>>
>
>Good theory.
>We've come to a point, however, where taxes/fees/assessments
>continue to rise while every 'targeted' problem (such as
>road maintenance) gets worse.
>
>Small datum- NYC[1], with layers of crushing tax on every
>human activity has a budget equal to the State of
>Florida[2]. Which is doing well? Who's responsible with the
>taxpayers' money?
>
>Here's another regarding The War On Poverty- Poverty won.
>It's now an established industry; just like cancer, more
>people live off it than die from it.
>
>[1] 8 million humans on 321 sq miles
>[2] 22 million squeezed into 53,600 sq miles

But Andrew, I didn't assert that the road tax worked efficiently, I
merely said it was a fair method of paying for roads. Whether or not
your elected officials administer the system efficiently is a whole
different problem. But remember; "Y'all" elected them (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/26/2021 7:45 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>>>> everyone what the actually need.
>>>>
>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>>>
>>>> John B.
>>>
>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
>
> Nope Tommy, the "social security" plan that Roosevelt initiated is
> exactly what socialist and communist countries have done, since at
> about 1917. Step 1 grab the money, or simply don't pay the common
> folks very much and (2) give some back when they get old.
>
> You see, many, perhaps most, of the population never make a single
> plan for the future and are usually broke by payday so the government
> steps in and takes care of these feckless fools.
>

IIRC Otto von Bismark gets the prize for dreaming up a
government pension scheme with taxes now and payouts later-
starting at age 70 for a population mostly dead before 70.

The German regime lowered the payout age to 65 during the
Great War.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/26/2021 7:57 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:20:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 9/25/2021 8:35 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:06:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/24/2021 10:55 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:42:49 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/24/2021 7:19 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:11:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's a concrete example of the rich getting even richer at the expense
>>>>>>>> of the middle and lower classes. But any proposal to raise taxes on the
>>>>>>>> rich gets painted as "punishing hard work" or other nonsense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frank, the "rich" always get richer at the expense of the lower
>>>>>>> classes, how can it be any different? And lets be honest, your "job"
>>>>>>> wasn't to educate some poor, improvised, layabout, it was to educate
>>>>>>> those who could afford to pay your price. and, as you have told us,
>>>>>>> you are pretty well off these days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am pretty well off. But I don't believe the rich must always get
>>>>>> richer at the expense of the lower classes - at least, not to the degree
>>>>>> it happens in this country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> America is a land of extreme income disparity, and even more extreme
>>>>>> wealth disparity. Those disparities are far larger than in many
>>>>>> prosperous European and Asian countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see that situation as being good for the nation, or for society.
>>>>>> We've already seen disastrous effects of disenfranchized folks voting
>>>>>> for a shyster celebrity who pretended that he would single-handedly fix
>>>>>> their problems. ("Those jobs are all coming back! Don't sell your houses!")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are historical examples of similar situations triggering
>>>>>> revolutions, resulting in much bloodshed and misery but ultimately no
>>>>>> real improvement. We don't need that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I recently looked up "rich folks" on the Web and it seems that
>>>>> something like 64% of them are rich because of their own efforts. And,
>>>>> I read, that Only 21% of millionaires received any inheritance at all.
>>>>> So... is it justifiable to effectively penalize these "get up and go"
>>>>> people because the multitudes don't have the push to get ahead?
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I don't buy the "penalize"characteristic about having the wealthy
>>>> pay more taxes.
>>>>
>>>> Civilization costs money. As I said, if a certain amount of money is
>>>> required, it makes much more sense to get it from those who have an
>>>> excess than from those who have little.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I've seen the data showing the wealthy pay more. The question is,
>>>> do they pay _enough_ more. If they are building immense mansions along
>>>> roads the county can't afford to properly pave, I'd say they aren't
>>>> paying enough.
>>>
>>> A rather socialistic attitude. Essentially what Russia tried... and
>>> it didn't work.
>>>
>>> What you are missing is, what appears to be a fact, that some people
>>> are more important then others and deserve more of the common pie.
>>> Should a chap who discovers a treatment for AIDS, for example, deserve
>>> more? Or the guy that developed the pacemaker that is keeping me
>>> alive? Or anyone else that accomplished something?
>>>
>>> Or even the guy that taught bunch of people to be engineers? Or me,
>>> building oil drilling sites in the jungle and thus increasing the
>>> volume of crude being produced and indirectly decreasing the cost of
>>> gasoline in America?
>>>
>>> But whining about bumpy roads? A fair method would be to simply
>>> increase the tax on those that use the road. Perhaps by how much they
>>> actually use the roads by an increase in motor vehicle fuel taxes. And
>>> bicycle rider, who complain the loudest don't pay any tax at all and
>>> ride around on bicycles that might cost more then $10,000. Shouldn't
>>> they be taxed? After all they appear to want private "roads".
>>>
>>
>> Good theory.
>> We've come to a point, however, where taxes/fees/assessments
>> continue to rise while every 'targeted' problem (such as
>> road maintenance) gets worse.
>>
>> Small datum- NYC[1], with layers of crushing tax on every
>> human activity has a budget equal to the State of
>> Florida[2]. Which is doing well? Who's responsible with the
>> taxpayers' money?
>>
>> Here's another regarding The War On Poverty- Poverty won.
>> It's now an established industry; just like cancer, more
>> people live off it than die from it.
>>
>> [1] 8 million humans on 321 sq miles
>> [2] 22 million squeezed into 53,600 sq miles
>
> But Andrew, I didn't assert that the road tax worked efficiently, I
> merely said it was a fair method of paying for roads. Whether or not
> your elected officials administer the system efficiently is a whole
> different problem. But remember; "Y'all" elected them (:-)
>

It's not a 'tax to fund road maintenance' program any
longer. It's just a racket.

If any potholes are filled it's an anomalous miracle.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:44:46 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>
>>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
>>>>
>>> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
>>> the extent one is a different term for the other).
>>>
>>> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
>>> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
>>> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
>>> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
>>> understands insurance!". And so it was.
>>>
>>> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
>>> companion/ minder.
>>
>> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.
>>
>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>
>>
>
>I'm with you in principle.
>
>NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
>how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
>US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
>pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
>Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
>not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
>highway spending is another excellent example- once
>productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
>and the results are scant.

But, you are "shooting yourself in the foot", as it were. You live in
a democracy and You elect the government that controls things, like
NASA for example.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/26/2021 8:17 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:44:46 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 9/26/2021 11:30 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 9/26/2021 9:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>>>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>>>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>>>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>>>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
>>>>>
>>>> Uh, FDR's Ponzi scheme is both socialist and fraudulent (to
>>>> the extent one is a different term for the other).
>>>>
>>>> When cooking up that mess, the White House was despairing of
>>>> putting this over to a Democrat Congress and the citizenry.
>>>> It was Stalin's man on FDR's staff[1], Harry Hopkins, who
>>>> made the breakthrough, "Let's call it insurance! No one
>>>> understands insurance!". And so it was.
>>>>
>>>> [1] He lived in the White House and was FDR's constant
>>>> companion/ minder.
>>>
>>> Social Security was passed by a congress that had seen unimaginable hardship, and it could have been unwound at any time by subsequent administrations -- but it wasn't. Roosevelt's administration built public works projects comprising some of the greatest engineering feats ever accomplished -- from bombs to dams. Eisenhower used public funds to build the interstates. Kennedy got us headed to the moon. The MAGA set seems to ignore what made America great -- collective action coordinated by governments and paid for with tax dollars. We should demand that government be efficient, and taxes can be oppressive, but I'm tired of the evil government meme. Its weak. Go run for office or even get on a citizen's board. I look forward to the return of conservatives who are not a bunch of lunatics or side-show barkers raving about Jewish space lasers, stolen elections, child sex-slaves in Wayfair wardrobes, etc., etc. We need a strong middle of the road to anchor the outside lanes.

>>>
>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'm with you in principle.
>>
>> NASA is a good example- once efficient and productive but oh
>> how that has ended. DARPA has had some excellent returns to
>> US and culture generally. This is not the same as defending
>> pissholes for taxpayer money like the failed Education
>> Department which hasn't done anything useful ever but it's
>> not done anything at great expense. Federalization of
>> highway spending is another excellent example- once
>> productive but now pernicious, in that the dollars are huge
>> and the results are scant.
>
> But, you are "shooting yourself in the foot", as it were. You live in
> a democracy and You elect the government that controls things, like
> NASA for example.
>

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what
they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/01/12/more-than-eight-in-ten-americans-get-news-from-digital-devices/
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:00:46 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/26/2021 7:45 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:14:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:17:47 PM UTC-7, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:50:20 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>>>>> A bunch of foreigners thought the idea that "From each according to
>>>>> his ability, to each according to his needs" was a good plan. Give
>>>>> everyone what the actually need.
>>>>>
>>>>> And a bunch of people moved to the U.S. (The Land Of Opportunity)
>>>>> where they could get rich (:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> John B.
>>>>
>>>> And then Franklin Delano Roosevelt came along in 1932 and started that communist, socialist, Social Security stuff. And WPA. A government giving its poor, old, unemployed citizens work and food and money? CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!
>>> Another stupid ass that doesn't have a passing clue what he is talking about. There is and never was anything socialist about social security. Like all of you really bright economics majors, you think that a savings account is socialist.
>>
>> Nope Tommy, the "social security" plan that Roosevelt initiated is
>> exactly what socialist and communist countries have done, since at
>> about 1917. Step 1 grab the money, or simply don't pay the common
>> folks very much and (2) give some back when they get old.
>>
>> You see, many, perhaps most, of the population never make a single
>> plan for the future and are usually broke by payday so the government
>> steps in and takes care of these feckless fools.
>>
>
>IIRC Otto von Bismark gets the prize for dreaming up a
>government pension scheme with taxes now and payouts later-
>starting at age 70 for a population mostly dead before 70.
>
>The German regime lowered the payout age to 65 during the
>Great War.

I hadn't realized that. and interestingly that the U.S. plan seems to
have been modeled very closely to the German scheme.
--
Cheers,

John B.