Got a 100A 240V spur.
In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
I see rotary converters. Seen one in-real-life.
Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
So in your experience what's the real deal?
What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
sort of autotransformer starter or resistor? I was in a shop which
had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
motor at speed.
Sorry if frequently asked. I'd happily follow-up leads.

On 10/10/2022 1:21 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
> Got a 100A 240V spur.
> In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
> I see rotary converters. Seen one in-real-life.
> Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
> So in your experience what's the real deal?
> What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
> Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
> sort of autotransformer starter or resistor? I was in a shop which
> had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
> then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
> motor at speed.
> Sorry if frequently asked. I'd happily follow-up leads.
>

Have you considered a VFD ? I've no direct experience with them , but
they get good reviews from those I know who have used them .
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

On 10/10/2022 1:24 PM, Snag wrote:
> On 10/10/2022 1:21 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
>> Got a 100A 240V spur.
>> In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
>> I see rotary converters.  Seen one in-real-life.
>> Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
>> So in your experience what's the real deal?
>> What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
>> Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
>> sort of autotransformer starter or resistor?  I was in a shop which
>> had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
>> then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
>> motor at speed.
>> Sorry if frequently asked.  I'd happily follow-up leads.
>>
>
>   Have you considered a VFD ? I've no direct experience with them , but
> they get good reviews from those I know who have used them .

I have several VFDs. The biggest advantage to a properly sized VFD is
the ability to vary speed (within the capabilities of the motor (mostly
cooling)) by varying frequency, and act as phase converter.

The biggest advantage to a rotary phase converter (often called RPC) is
the ability to run multiple motors on different pieces of equipment and
switch them at the equipment without damaging the RPC.

I don't know of any big advantage to a static phase converter. Price
maybe.

There are lots of RPC manufacturers who have guidelines for choosing an
RPC size. This is just one of many:

https://www.southern-tool.com/store/phase_converters-sizing-details.php#:~:text=CNC%20Rotary%20Phase%20Converters%20For%20Single%20Motor%20Loads,60%25%20of%20full%20load%203-phase%20current.%20More%20items

Basically it looks like you would have no issue with a 50HP motor on a
100HP RPC. If its no-load balanced you can run any size motor from
fractional horse power to max horse power. I bet you could run a 60HP,
and maybe a little more if it has soft start capability. Of course
lockup could still cause problems.

Also, if your RPC is well balanced and filtered to provide clean 3 phase
power you can run a VFD (or multiple VFDs) down stream of the RPC on
individual pieces of equipment.

I DO NOT run an RPC in my shop, but use multiple VFDs on individual
machines to act as both a phase converter and speed control. If
choosing a VFD for a piece of equipment its considered by many to have a
high likelihood of damaging your VFD if you switch the power between the
VFD and the motor it is controlling. Use the inputs on the VFD and
disconnects should be between the power source and the VFD. I have had
a power failure (a few) with VFDs running spindles on machines. I have
also powered down a machine a couple times with the disconnect while
running. I have not experienced a failure from sudden disconnect of
source power other than of course... it had no power. I do not have any
switching between the VFD and the motor.

Generally the rule of thumb is if a VFD is used with a single phase
source to provide 3 phase output that it should be derated by 30-40%.
HOWEVER, there are VFDs sold and marketed specifically for phase
conversion that are rated at 100% when used as a phase converter. IN my
opinion its not about efficient use of available power, but rather the
power handling capability of the capacitors. I could be wrong of
course. I often am.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyzge34k0g.fsf@void.com...

Got a 100A 240V spur.
In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
I see rotary converters. Seen one in-real-life.
Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
So in your experience what's the real deal?
What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
sort of autotransformer starter or resistor? I was in a shop which
had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
motor at speed.
Sorry if frequently asked. I'd happily follow-up leads.

----------------------
100A, 240V is 24 Kilowatts or 32 HP, though as the PFC article below
mentions you probably can't use that much.

For the low budget, technically educated hobbyist:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/fitch-williams-converter-design-balancing-instructions.101882/
Fitch was highly respected in R.C.M and heavily involved in the power
systems on the International Space Station.

There are other ways to cobble a spare 3ph motor into a 3 phase rotary
converter, including starting it with a pull rope.

Single phase motors may have internal centrifugal Start-Run switches that
click back to Start as they slow down after switching them off. If the Start
circuit fails they just hum loudly without turning. My father had a bench
grinder like that, switch it on while yanking the belt to get it turning,
and try to avoid catching a finger in the pulley. The belt was so loose that
damage to the finger wasn't serious. I appreciate solid modern technology
but I can deal with primitive, at my first factory job the machinery ran on
leather belts from overhead line shafts.

In my opinion unless you are familiar with and equipped to troubleshoot AC
power, buy a solution from a company whose technical skills you trust. You
might ask about Power Factor Correction and see if the salesman refers you
to a tech who can explain it, or tries to blow you off.

https://energyace.co.uk/2019/01/18/what-is-power-factor-correction-and-how-does-it-work-uk/

BTW my house was built for electric heat and wired for 240V, 200A, plenty
for any machine tools and welders I could stuff into it. I've been exploring
energy conservation and reduced my electricity demand from 4 to 2 KWH per
day.

On 10/10/2022 3:56 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Richard Smith"  wrote in message news:lyzge34k0g.fsf@void.com...
>
> Got a 100A 240V spur.
> In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
> I see rotary converters.  Seen one in-real-life.
> Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
> So in your experience what's the real deal?
> What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
> Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
> sort of autotransformer starter or resistor?  I was in a shop which
> had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
> then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
> motor at speed.
> Sorry if frequently asked.  I'd happily follow-up leads.
>
> ----------------------
> 100A, 240V is 24 Kilowatts or 32 HP, though as the PFC article below
> mentions you probably can't use that much.
>
> For the low budget, technically educated hobbyist:
> https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/fitch-williams-converter-design-balancing-instructions.101882/
> Fitch was highly respected in R.C.M and heavily involved in the power
> systems on the International Space Station.
>
> There are other ways to cobble a spare 3ph motor into a 3 phase rotary
> converter, including starting it with a pull rope.
>
> Single phase motors may have internal centrifugal Start-Run switches
> that click back to Start as they slow down after switching them off. If
> the Start circuit fails they just hum loudly without turning. My father
> had a bench grinder like that, switch it on while yanking the belt to
> get it turning, and try to avoid catching a finger in the pulley. The
> belt was so loose that damage to the finger wasn't serious. I appreciate
> solid modern technology but I can deal with primitive, at my first
> factory job the machinery ran on leather belts from overhead line shafts.
>
> In my opinion unless you are familiar with and equipped to troubleshoot
> AC power, buy a solution from a company whose technical skills you
> trust. You might ask about Power Factor Correction and see if the
> salesman refers you to a tech who can explain it, or tries to blow you off.
>
> https://energyace.co.uk/2019/01/18/what-is-power-factor-correction-and-how-does-it-work-uk/
>
> BTW my house was built for electric heat and wired for 240V, 200A,
> plenty for any machine tools and welders I could stuff into it. I've
> been exploring energy conservation and reduced my electricity demand
> from 4 to 2 KWH per day.
>

OOPS!!!

I saw 100A and thought 100HP. My bad. Biggest motor on circuit might
be 16-20HP. Not 50-60. LOL. Again. My bad.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

> On 10/10/2022 3:56 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Richard Smith"  wrote in message news:lyzge34k0g.fsf@void.com...
>>
>> Got a 100A 240V spur.
>> In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
>> I see rotary converters.  Seen one in-real-life.
>> Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
>> So in your experience what's the real deal?
>> What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
>> Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
>> sort of autotransformer starter or resistor?  I was in a shop which
>> had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
>> then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
>> motor at speed.
>> Sorry if frequently asked.  I'd happily follow-up leads.
>>
>> ----------------------
>> 100A, 240V is 24 Kilowatts or 32 HP, though as the PFC article below
>> mentions you probably can't use that much.
>>
>> For the low budget, technically educated hobbyist:
>> https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/fitch-williams-converter-design-balancing-instructions.101882/
>> Fitch was highly respected in R.C.M and heavily involved in the
>> power systems on the International Space Station.
>>
>> There are other ways to cobble a spare 3ph motor into a 3 phase
>> rotary converter, including starting it with a pull rope.
>>
>> Single phase motors may have internal centrifugal Start-Run switches
>> that click back to Start as they slow down after switching them
>> off. If the Start circuit fails they just hum loudly without
>> turning. My father had a bench grinder like that, switch it on while
>> yanking the belt to get it turning, and try to avoid catching a
>> finger in the pulley. The belt was so loose that damage to the
>> finger wasn't serious. I appreciate solid modern technology but I
>> can deal with primitive, at my first factory job the machinery ran
>> on leather belts from overhead line shafts.
>>
>> In my opinion unless you are familiar with and equipped to
>> troubleshoot AC power, buy a solution from a company whose technical
>> skills you trust. You might ask about Power Factor Correction and
>> see if the salesman refers you to a tech who can explain it, or
>> tries to blow you off.
>>
>> https://energyace.co.uk/2019/01/18/what-is-power-factor-correction-and-how-does-it-work-uk/
>>
>> BTW my house was built for electric heat and wired for 240V, 200A,
>> plenty for any machine tools and welders I could stuff into it. I've
>> been exploring energy conservation and reduced my electricity demand
>> from 4 to 2 KWH per day.
>>
>
> OOPS!!!
>
> I saw 100A and thought 100HP. My bad. Biggest motor on circuit might
> be 16-20HP. Not 50-60. LOL. Again. My bad.
>
>
> --
> Bob La Londe
> CNC Molds N Stuff
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> www.avg.com

No worries.
I knew that could not be the case.
10HP would be a bonanza.

Thanks everyone for phase converter (1ph->3ph) advice.
At least I've touched the subject and have something to think on.
I followed the links.
Seems like could be done. Converter, then have access to ex
industrial machines.
Noting Jim's advice
"...
In my opinion unless you are familiar with and equipped to
troubleshoot AC power, buy a solution from a company whose technical
skills you trust. ..."
unless you wanted the converter to become the project, if you have
missions you are on, get one delivered ready-to-run.
Regards,
Rich S

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lymta2n1hm.fsf@void.com...

unless you wanted the converter to become the project, if you have
missions you are on, get one delivered ready-to-run.
Regards,
Rich S

----------
When designing custom industrial test equipment I had to repeatedly decide
whether to buy or build parts of it. Usually I was running at or beyond my
experience level and would have to study how to build the module and risk
delays, though the knowledge would be valuable. My usual compromise was to
learn enough that I could buy wisely.

Every time I was pushed into a different branch of electricity/electronics I
found I had to learn a new set of test equipment and a new way to think
about the flow of electricity. Digital radio was so complicated I had to
take night school classes in the mathematics of it.

For audio, TV and telephone communications you look at the voltage on a
meter or an oscilloscope. Current might be nice to know but it's difficult
and disruptive to measure in-circuit. The useful tool for digital
communications over phone lines is the eye pattern. Analyzing it was more
artistic judgment than measurement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_pattern

If you are interested in the British Enigma project you might like the
reference to SIGSALY. Computers arose from the joint US/UK efforts at
breaking enemy codes and securing our own. Though an impressive advance your
Colossus wasn't quite a true computer, nor were ours of the wartime period.
Early developers tried to avoid creating a general-purpose computer because
they realized they would lose control of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC
"Although ENIAC was designed and primarily used to calculate artillery
firing tables ... its first program was a study of the feasibility of the
thermonuclear weapon.

For industrial AC motors the basic tool is the clamp-on ammeter, an analog
Amprobe when I started, now a digital Fluke if the company is paying for it.
Unlike DC circuits the voltage is usually constant and the load's inductive
reactance determines the current.
https://www.watelectrical.com/phase-sequence-meter-and-its-working-principle/

For radio the measured quantity is power and the instrument selectively
measures the power flowing in one direction since some of it can echo back
from the intended destination. A common example is the SWR meter. I had to
learn to operate these for more sophisticated measurements:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_analyzer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_analyzer_(electrical)
I bought a NanoVNA that I haven't had time to use.

I *should* learn electrics and electronics as a project - but it must
be a free-standing project.
I have worked so hard on welding - maybe I should continue to do that
and graciously accept help when needed and given...

On 10/11/2022 12:44 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
> I *should* learn electrics and electronics as a project - but it must
> be a free-standing project.
> I have worked so hard on welding - maybe I should continue to do that
> and graciously accept help when needed and given...
>

My downfall is wanting to know too much about everything ... and
having infinite knowledge at my fingertips has made me more aware of it
.. I try now to get just the info I need right now to do whatever it is
that I'm doing . If I need to know more I can always go back for a
second helping . Or even thirds ...
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

What's a spur?

Hul

Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
> Got a 100A 240V spur.
> In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
> I see rotary converters. Seen one in-real-life.
> Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
> So in your experience what's the real deal?
> What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
> Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
> sort of autotransformer starter or resistor? I was in a shop which
> had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
> then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
> motor at speed.
> Sorry if frequently asked. I'd happily follow-up leads.

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lysfju8dbl.fsf@void.com...

I *should* learn electrics and electronics as a project - but it must
be a free-standing project.
I have worked so hard on welding - maybe I should continue to do that
and graciously accept help when needed and given...

---------------------------

After day and night college courses, Army training and a career in it I'm
nowhere near being able to consider myself an electrical engineer, though
I'm pretty good in some of the scattered areas where I've worked. As with
mechanical engineering the calculus becomes intense in some areas, more than
I had to survive in Chemistry. The Army training, which to be fair was on
very arcane equipment, began with around 100 in the class, of which 4 of us
graduated. I learned the art and craft of building electronic hardware
mostly on the job and from examining high end industrial and military
equipment.

A good start would be learning Volts, Amps and Watts, resistors, capacitors
and inductors (since you use welders), transformers, relays and motors.
Digital electronics is an extensively complex assembly of simple building
blocks and you don't have to dive too deep into its innards to be able to
tame and train a microcomputer, an Arduino for example. Analog electronics,
transistors etc, is being swallowed up by Digital.

"Hul Tytus" wrote in message news:ti4o1i$mlu$1@reader2.panix.com...

What's a spur?

Hul

Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
> Got a 100A 240V spur.
> In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
> I see rotary converters. Seen one in-real-life.
> Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
> So in your experience what's the real deal?
> What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
> Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
> sort of autotransformer starter or resistor? I was in a shop which
> had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
> then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
> motor at speed.
> Sorry if frequently asked. I'd happily follow-up leads.

--------------------------

I took the railway/railroad meaning of 'spur'.

You're lucky he's British instead of Australian.

"Once a jolly swagman camped by a billabong
Under the shade of a Coolibah tree
And he sang as he watched and waited till his billy boiled
"You'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me"
Down came a jumbuck to drink at that billabong
Up jumped the swagging and grabbed him with glee
And he sang as he stowed that jumbuck in his tucker bag
"You'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me"
Down came the squatter mounted on his thorough-bred
Up came the troopers one, two, three
"Whose that jolly jumbuck you've got in your tucker bag?
You'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me"
Up cut the swagging and jumped into the billabong
"You'll never catch me alive" said he
And his ghost may be heard if you pass by that billabong
"Who'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me?"

On 10/11/2022 5:58 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Hul Tytus"  wrote in message news:ti4o1i$mlu$1@reader2.panix.com...
> What's a spur?
>

> I took the railway/railroad meaning of 'spur'.
> You're lucky he's British instead of Australian.
> "Once a jolly swagman camped by a billabong
> Under the shade of a Coolibah tree
> And he sang as he watched and waited till his billy boiled
> "You'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me"
> Down came a jumbuck to drink at that billabong
> Up jumped the swagging and grabbed him with glee
> And he sang as he stowed that jumbuck in his tucker bag
> "You'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me"
> Down came the squatter mounted on his thorough-bred
> Up came the troopers one, two, three
> "Whose that jolly jumbuck you've got in your tucker bag?
> You'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me"
> Up cut the swagging and jumped into the billabong
> "You'll never catch me alive" said he
> And his ghost may be heard if you pass by that billabong
> "Who'll come a Waltzing Matilda with me?"
>

That's pretty complicated ... I figgered he meant a sub panel . I got
one out in my shop , 100 amp feed from the main . Someday I'll fall
across a 3 phase motor suitable for my lathe , at which time I'll
probably get a VFD to power it . Unless I fall across one that will fit
the milling machine first .
--
Snag
"You can lead a dummy to facts
but you can't make him think."

Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> writes:

> What's a spur?
>
> Hul

In general (?) (well, in UK), lights are on rings and sockets are on
rings. Multiple places to draw current off one supply from the breaker.

A spur is when a cable goes direct out of the distribution-board to a
single destination.

The cooker has one always (?) because of its high power draw.

Outbuildings often have a spur, as in this case.

Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> writes:

> What's a spur?
>
> Hul

In general (?) (well, in UK), lights are on rings and sockets are on
rings. Multiple places to draw current off one supply from the breaker.

A spur is when a cable goes direct out of the distribution-board to a
single destination.

The cooker has one always (?) because of its high power draw.

Outbuildings often have a spur, as in this case.

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

> "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lysfju8dbl.fsf@void.com...
>
> I *should* learn electrics and electronics as a project - but it must
> be a free-standing project.
> I have worked so hard on welding - maybe I should continue to do that
> and graciously accept help when needed and given...
>
> ---------------------------
>
> After day and night college courses, Army training and a career in it
> I'm nowhere near being able to consider myself an electrical engineer,
> though I'm pretty good in some of the scattered areas where I've
> worked. As with mechanical engineering the calculus becomes intense in
> some areas, more than I had to survive in Chemistry. The Army
> training, which to be fair was on very arcane equipment, began with
> around 100 in the class, of which 4 of us graduated. I learned the art
> and craft of building electronic hardware mostly on the job and from
> examining high end industrial and military equipment.
>
> A good start would be learning Volts, Amps and Watts, resistors,
> capacitors and inductors (since you use welders), transformers, relays
> and motors. Digital electronics is an extensively complex assembly of
> simple building blocks and you don't have to dive too deep into its
> innards to be able to tame and train a microcomputer, an Arduino for
> example. Analog electronics, transistors etc, is being swallowed up by
> Digital.

I learn during application.
The thing that seems to be missed:
* the candidate who has done exactly this before is fictitious
* the right individual has the right area of aptitude learns a lot
quickly (typically a lot by networking and getting mentoring)
Showing what's wrong with the disagreeing view...
I have a lot of knowledge in welding, Non-Destructive Examination and
design of steel / metal structures. I, like you earlier described (or
was it Bob?), need to know enough to specify what's needed - be "a
knowledgeable customer". Delegate the implementation, but oversee the
objective is the target and is being achieved.
I have to have a fair amount of knowledge on maybe something like 40
topics. Maybe it goes into 100's.
A "properly qualified person" (sic.) has "tickets" in one subject. As
much use as a chocolate fireguard for driving an endeavour to a goal.

The endeavour and the goal produces the need to acquire a new skill
and area of knoweldge, and the context makes that learning part happen
and make sense. The "case study" make taking up information hundreds
of times faster minimum that abstract study of the general area.

The "case study" might sound narrow if you don't know how learning
works, where the person spending time in general study might be the
same mistake be expected to have the broad base. But this is not the
case. The "general studying approach" will be things which come and
go, not consolidated by not having application. Whereas the "case
study" appoach, has application, and reward for new learning is seeing
application; which feeds into enthused new learning.

Another hard reality the administrator's model doesn't address is the
extent of your knowledge is dominatantly dictated by the furtherest
you've been in a topic - even if that is a narrow specific-case driven
activity - bacause you can "fill-in" "sideways" trivially in all of the
domain you did not touch in your lunge to the highest, furthest goal.

I am saddened that here in the UK I have been ready and poised like on
the starting line of track running race for most of my would-be
career, spending most of the time supporting myself with the likes of
welding and often simply doing what I am told to do having to
passively watch the "slow motion train wrecks" as the now almost
totally dominant managerial layer messes up what (everything?!) they
touch...

Example of "learn" for a person with aptitude and has benefitted from
***>good<*** education - that which develops the ability to learn.
(my website)
http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/struct/201113_u_rhs/pics_urhs_test/201118_085226_ut.jpg
I'd done the welding, tested to destruction; which proved to be gross
plastic deformation - but that weep of oil down the cylinder and
continuing down the sample is the hydraulic cylinder's seal blowing on
"that last absolutely final push of the pump handle".
[it later proved - I was not at max. pressure, and the seal had simply
worn out and / or perished in long heavy use]
I was not "grassed-up" but got icy stares and negative annoyed
mutterings.

So - I learned about hydraulic cylinders and that was my path into
hydraulics.

I made a tool to dissemble the cylinder and after work nipped around
with the bits to to the hydraulics supplier at a nearby large
industrial estate. Where they looked, pronounced all looked normal
and looked to be just the seal - which they found was a standard size.
So ordered one, bought circlip pliers knowing these would be needed
and paid for all. Then collected seal next day hidden by their door
(was after their closing time).
Next day fitted new seal, reassembled cylinder - and it was perfect.
"Persona grata" again.
Asked on here and got a recommendation for a book on hydraulics,
bought it and read through it that Christmas.
Got my own hydraulic pump and cylinder for tests.
Worked at a major engineering Co. with a big hydraulics dept. and got
to talk with them and look at major hydraulic motors, etc.

The learning path.
in context.
It is the way for the fast folk on a mission.

Example of "learn" for a person with aptitude and has benefitted from
***>good<*** education - that which develops the ability to learn.
(my website)
http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/struct/201113_u_rhs/pics_urhs_test/201118_085226_ut.jpg
I'd
* fabricated and welded to design
* tested to destruction, which proved to be gross plastic deformation
* found Finite Element Analysis modelling prediction and physical
observation matched exactly

But that weep of oil down the cylinder and continuing down the sample
is the hydraulic cylinder's seal blowing on "that last absolutely
final push of the pump handle".
[it later proved - I was not at max. pressure, and the seal had simply
worn out and / or perished in long heavy use]
I was not "grassed-up" but got icy stares and annoyed mutterings.
Needed to do something, and fast.

So - I learned about hydraulic cylinders and that was my path into
hydraulics.

I made a tool to dissemble the cylinder and after work nipped around
with the bits to a local hydraulics supplier I'd found in the Web.

They looked, pronounced all looked normal and reckoned was just the
seal. Which they found was a less-regular but standard size. So
ordered one and bought circlip pliers knowing these would be needed.

Collected seal next day hidden by their door post their closing
time.
Day after, fitted new seal, reassembled the cylinder - and it was
perfect.

"Persona very grata" - not only cylinder good, but ability to repair
cylinders as-and-when.

Asked on here and got a recommendation for a book on hydraulics,
bought it and read through it that Christmas.
Got my own hydraulic pump and cylinder for tests. Worked at a major
engineering Co. with a big hydraulics dept. and got to talk with them
and look at major hydraulic motors, etc.

The learning path.
In context.
It is the way for the fast folk on a mission.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 08:15:27 +0100
Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:

>Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com> writes:
>
>> What's a spur?
>>
>> Hul
>
>In general (?) (well, in UK), lights are on rings and sockets are on
>rings. Multiple places to draw current off one supply from the breaker.
>
>A spur is when a cable goes direct out of the distribution-board to a
>single destination.
>
>The cooker has one always (?) because of its high power draw.
>
>Outbuildings often have a spur, as in this case.
>

There is a Wiki page here with a diagram for a ring and the spur is also
discussed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly7d1573t8.fsf@void.com...
....
So - I learned about hydraulic cylinders and that was my path into
hydraulics.

I made a tool to dissemble the cylinder and after work nipped around
with the bits to a local hydraulics supplier I'd found in the Web.

They looked, pronounced all looked normal and reckoned was just the
seal. Which they found was a less-regular but standard size. So
ordered one and bought circlip pliers knowing these would be needed.

Collected seal next day hidden by their door post their closing
time.
Day after, fitted new seal, reassembled the cylinder - and it was
perfect.

"Persona very grata" - not only cylinder good, but ability to repair
cylinders as-and-when.

Asked on here and got a recommendation for a book on hydraulics,
bought it and read through it that Christmas.
Got my own hydraulic pump and cylinder for tests. Worked at a major
engineering Co. with a big hydraulics dept. and got to talk with them
and look at major hydraulic motors, etc.

The learning path.
In context.
It is the way for the fast folk on a mission.

-------------------

I was able to help you because I had been down that same path. The
second-hand gear pump and cylinders I bought for my homebrew tractor bucket
loader were worn out, the pump worse than the cylinders. Pulling it apart
revealed wear I could remove by surface-grinding the gears and their chamber
plates, and worn bronze bushings that I made an expanding internal puller to
remove. I didn't fully restore it but it taught me enough to be able to
order a properly sized new pump on-line, for a quarter of what local heavy
equipment dealers charge.

After prettying it up the bushing puller became my demo to prove I could do
machinist's as well as electronic work, and it helped get me the job at
Segway.

I referred you to the Vickers manual based on reading recommendations, and
it and you being British with your unique threads. My schoolbook was the
catalog of the Parker Hannifin hydraulics company plus a small handout to
aid beginning repairmen. Later on this became very useful by showing the
individual components well enough to understand how they fit together.
https://www.baileyhydraulics.com/electronic-catalog

I usually can figure out something like loco valve gear or an aero engine
based on seeing how its parts go together and knowing what it needs to do.
At flea markets with old tools and equipment I practice the rapid
identification game Kipling described in "Kim".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim%27s_Game

Often the seller will see me staring at the relic and ask me if I know what
it is. When I identify it as a pelorus or a bick or a steam engine indicator
he usually has an informative story to go with it.

On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 1:44:49 PM UTC-4, Richard Smith wrote:
> I *should* learn electrics and electronics as a project - but it must
> be a free-standing project.
> I have worked so hard on welding - maybe I should continue to do that
> and graciously accept help when needed and given...

I recommend getting yourself a copy of "The Art of Electronics" and reading it
cover to cover. (Yes, it's that readable.)

https://artofelectronics.net/

I have done this for all three editions of the book (each in its own time).

--
Norman Yarvin https://yarchive.net/blog

"Norman Yarvin" wrote in message
news:13c8ee49-fe5f-44a6-b1a5-17311ed9039bn@googlegroups.com...

On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 1:44:49 PM UTC-4, Richard Smith wrote:
> I *should* learn electrics and electronics as a project - but it must
> be a free-standing project.
> I have worked so hard on welding - maybe I should continue to do that
> and graciously accept help when needed and given...

I recommend getting yourself a copy of "The Art of Electronics" and reading
it
cover to cover. (Yes, it's that readable.)

https://artofelectronics.net/

I have done this for all three editions of the book (each in its own time).

--
Norman Yarvin https://yarchive.net/blog

-------------------------------

Thanks, I just downloaded a low grade .pdf of it. The information is DENSE,
something valuable in every sentence.

Get a phase converter with a 10 HP idler motor -- you will be golden

i

On 2022-10-10, Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
> Got a 100A 240V spur.
> In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
> I see rotary converters. Seen one in-real-life.
> Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
> So in your experience what's the real deal?
> What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
> Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
> sort of autotransformer starter or resistor? I was in a shop which
> had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
> then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
> motor at speed.
> Sorry if frequently asked. I'd happily follow-up leads.

On 11/7/2022 9:38 AM, Ignoramus3431877 wrote:
> Get a phase converter with a 10 HP idler motor -- you will be golden
>
> i
>
> On 2022-10-10, Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:
>> Got a 100A 240V spur.
>> In UK - so 50Hz, for what it's worth.
>> I see rotary converters. Seen one in-real-life.
>> Get converter first then could get equipment with 3-phase motors...
>> So in your experience what's the real deal?
>> What power motor could I run given 100A spur?
>> Is that answer nuanced if not a direct-online (DOL) starter but some
>> sort of autotransformer starter or resistor? I was in a shop which
>> had a WW2 era press where you pushed the handle to a starting position
>> then flipped it across to the run position when you could hear the
>> motor at speed.
>> Sorry if frequently asked. I'd happily follow-up leads.

IGGY! WELCOME BACK!

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