Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young man was certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet. This was taken from an analysis of the isotopes, or elements, including of carbon and nitrogen, found in his skull.

https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/03/neanderthal-mans-recreated-face-takes-internet-by-storm/

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young
> man was certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet.

Wow, and with a sample of one, no less. That is truly amazing.

And of course it never occurred to you that they're saying something as porous
as bone had soaked in marine isotopes for tens of thousands of years, and yet
their test was unable to find any. While we're at it...

I won't try to explain to you the concept of the Straw Man Argument, as this has
proved fruitless in the past, so maybe you could instead quote someone --
ANYONE -- who both supports Aquatic Ape *and* insists that absolutely
every last member of the genus Homo had to sustained themselves on an aquatic
diet, or Homo never spread across the globe.

It would be interesting. That is, seeing if your failure would expose your error to
you. That would be interesting. Doubtful, but interesting.

You're trying to "Win" and "Be clever," instead of discussing a topic of interest. This
is why you keep losing and look like such an idiot.

Stop trying.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/686063009321336832

On Friday, June 3, 2022 at 10:55:42 PM UTC-4, I Envy JTEM wrote:
> DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
>
> > Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young
> > man was certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet.
> Wow, and with a sample of one, no less. That is truly amazing.
>
> And of course it never occurred to you that they're saying something as porous
> as bone had soaked in marine isotopes for tens of thousands of years, and yet
> their test was unable to find any. While we're at it...
>
> I won't try to explain to you the concept of the Straw Man Argument, as this has
> proved fruitless in the past, so maybe you could instead quote someone --
> ANYONE -- who both supports Aquatic Ape *and* insists that absolutely
> every last member of the genus Homo had to sustained themselves on an aquatic
> diet, or Homo never spread across the globe.
>
> It would be interesting. That is, seeing if your failure would expose your error to
> you. That would be interesting. Doubtful, but interesting.
>
> You're trying to "Win" and "Be clever," instead of discussing a topic of interest. This
> is why you keep losing and look like such an idiot.
>
> Stop trying.
>
>
> -- --
>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/686063009321336832

Jealous jermy?

Op zaterdag 4 juni 2022 om 03:59:52 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young man was certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet.

I didn't know you were so stupid, DD?!
C & N isotopes were *super*carnivorous:
are you really so stupid to believe you can be more carnivorous than felids??

C & N isotopes simply show marine or aquatic foods, probably mostly shellfish.

> This was taken from an analysis of the isotopes, or elements, including of carbon and nitrogen, found in his skull.
> https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/03/neanderthal-mans-recreated-face-takes-internet-by-storm/

Yes, this one of numerous indications that neandertals often dived for food.
:-)
Only incredible imbeciles believe their ancestors ran after kudus. :-DDD

Op zaterdag 4 juni 2022 om 03:59:52 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young man was certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet. This was taken from an analysis of the isotopes, or elements, including of carbon and nitrogen, found in his skull.
> https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/03/neanderthal-mans-recreated-face-takes-internet-by-storm/

Why not inform a *little* bit before talking nonsense??

Google e.g.
"Homo coastal dispersal Verhaegen".

On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 02:16:52 -0700 (PDT), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littoral.homo@gmail.com> wrote:

>Op zaterdag 4 juni 2022 om 03:59:52 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
>
>> Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young man was
>> certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet. This was taken from an analysis
>> of the isotopes, or elements, including of carbon and nitrogen, found in his skull.
>> https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/03/neanderthal-mans-recreated-face-takes-internet-by-storm/
>
>Why not inform a *little* bit before talking nonsense??

From the paper:

"Carbon and nitrogen isotope analysis is a well-established
method for reconstructing the protein portion of past human diets,
especially in terms of the amount of marine vs. terrestrial protein,
and the amount of animal vs. plant protein (see the recent review
by Lee-Thorp, 2008). The carbon isotope values of -20.6 permille
(>30 kDa) and -20.2 permille (10–30 kDa) indicate that there was no
significant (i.e., none, or less than 10%) consumption of marine
protein by this Neandertal. This is confirmed by the nitrogen
isotope values of 10.1 permille (>30 kDa) and 10.2 permille (10–30
kDa), which also do not indicate a significant marine protein input.
This finding is in line with all previously published studies of
Neandertals, in which in each case there is also no evidence for any
significant and regular consumption of marine protein (e.g., Richards
et al., 2000, 2008; Bocherens et al., 2001,2005; Richards and Schmitz,
2008). In order to accurately interpret the d15N value (to determine
the relative amounts of animal vs. plant proteins in their diet)
requires comparative faunal isotope values. However, these are
impossible to obtain with a specimen like this recovered from marine
sediments. A comparison with other Neandertals from Europe shows
that this Neandertal has very similar d15N values, and in all of the
published isotopic studies of Neandertals (where comparison with
associated fauna was possible), the authors have concluded that
Neandertals were top-level carnivores (e.g., Richards et al.,
2000,2008; Bocherens et al., 2001,2005; Richards and Schmitz,
2008). Without comparative faunal evidence we cannot yet determine
if that is the case with the Zeeland Ridges Neandertal, but as
the d15N value is very similar to many of the other Neandertals, we
can suggest that this Neandertal followed the same dietary pattern."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248409001560

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 18:59:51 -0700 (PDT), "DD'eDeN aka
note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud.deden@gmail.com> wrote:

>Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young man was
>certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet. This was taken from an analysis
>of the isotopes, or elements, including of carbon and nitrogen, found in his skull.
>
>
>https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/03/neanderthal-mans-recreated-face-takes-internet-by-storm/

Obviously the reconstruction of the face could not be based on the
Zeeland Ridges specimen itself since it only preserves a fragment of
the frontal bone:
https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/en/news/2009/07/a-neandertal-fossil-from-the-north-sea

Now, do they reallly think the Turkana Boy had that much hair on his
head?
https://www.kenniskennis.com/turkana-boy/

How could that be adaptive?

On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 5:15:40 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zaterdag 4 juni 2022 om 03:59:52 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young man was certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet.
> I didn't know you were so stupid, DD?!
Compared to whom?

> C & N isotopes were *super*carnivorous:
Like dolphins, whales and sea otters.

> are you really so stupid to believe you can be more carnivorous than felids??
Non sequitur.
I am not a Dutch neanderthal.
Dolphins, whales and sea otters are meat eating carnivores.
Cats can live on an omnivorous diet of 50% meat-fat, 50% carbs.

>
> C & N isotopes simply show marine or aquatic foods, probably mostly shellfish.
Delusions abound.
"no evidence of any seafood in his diet"

> > This was taken from an analysis of the isotopes, or elements, including of carbon and nitrogen, found in his skull.
> > https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/03/neanderthal-mans-recreated-face-takes-internet-by-storm/
> Yes, this one of numerous indications that neandertals often dived for food.
Delusions abound. "no evidence of any seafood in his diet"
> Only incredible imbeciles believe their ancestors ran after kudus. :-DDD
Kudu = fish trap.
Saiga = big nosed antelope.
Dutch neandertals may have hunted ungulates, but never chased fish traps.

On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 7:25:41 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 18:59:51 -0700 (PDT), "DD'eDeN aka
> note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young man was
> >certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet. This was taken from an analysis
> >of the isotopes, or elements, including of carbon and nitrogen, found in his skull.
> >
> >
> >https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/03/neanderthal-mans-recreated-face-takes-internet-by-storm/
> Obviously the reconstruction of the face could not be based on the
> Zeeland Ridges specimen itself since it only preserves a fragment of
> the frontal bone:
> https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/en/news/2009/07/a-neandertal-fossil-from-the-north-sea

Articles with cool pics sell more!

> Now, do they reallly think the Turkana Boy had that much hair on his
> head?
> https://www.kenniskennis.com/turkana-boy/

I think they overdid it a bit. A point is that a large brow ridge would shade the eyes while upright, so a big afro wouldn't be advantageous in that regard.

> How could that be adaptive?

Central Africans tend to keep shorter hair, east Africans keep longer less-tightly-coiled hair (less forest canopy so more direct sun exposure, plus mixed genetics with straight haired Asians) that might have influenced the artists.

What hairstyle did the Dutch neanderthal have? Probably a straight-wavy long mane, warmer in winter?
Tightly-coiled hair allows too much wind through the scalp, so afros best only in humid tropics; in temperate zone heat loss (no sc fat in scalp).

On Saturday 4 June 2022 at 12:25:41 UTC+1, Pandora wrote:

> Now, do they reallly think the Turkana Boy had that much hair on his
> head?
> https://www.kenniskennis.com/turkana-boy/

They (fairly reasonably) assumed that
earlier hominins were similar to the
later ones that occupied Central and
Southern Africa. Google "afro hair
tribesmen" or see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians

> How could that be adaptive?

If it was adaptive later, why not earlier?
"Adaptive to what?" is the question.

I suggest that humans (and later
hominins) had large heads because
they had large brains, and they had
large brains as a reserve source of
heat for those occasions when they
had to swim in cold ice-age seas.
Their heads would be out of the
water, and this enormously thick hair
was to help preserve that heat --
enabling the best to reach shore and
survive. Even if the swimming event
(or 'shipwreck') was less than once in
a lifetime, it would still be powerfully
selective.

On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 06:16:22 -0700 (PDT), Paul Crowley
<yelworcp@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday 4 June 2022 at 12:25:41 UTC+1, Pandora wrote:
>
>> Now, do they reallly think the Turkana Boy had that much hair on his
>> head?
>> https://www.kenniskennis.com/turkana-boy/
>
>They (fairly reasonably) assumed that
>earlier hominins were similar to the
>later ones that occupied Central and
>Southern Africa. Google "afro hair
>tribesmen" or see:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians

The physique of the Turkana Boy has been likened to that of Nilotic
people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_peoples

>> How could that be adaptive?
>
>If it was adaptive later, why not earlier?
>"Adaptive to what?" is the question.
>
>I suggest that humans (and later
>hominins) had large heads because
>they had large brains, and they had
>large brains as a reserve source of
>heat for those occasions when they
>had to swim in cold ice-age seas.
>Their heads would be out of the
>water, and this enormously thick hair
>was to help preserve that heat --
>enabling the best to reach shore and
>survive. Even if the swimming event
>(or 'shipwreck') was less than once in
>a lifetime, it would still be powerfully
>selective.

Humans are not cetaceans, and if anything they have a problem
dissipating heat in tropical environments. That explains the sweating,
the long distal limb segments, the strong vascularization of the scalp
and emissary veins of the skull, etc.
Based on its hypertropical distal limb segments (a case of Allen's
Rule) the Turkana Boy is inferred to have lived in an environment with
a mean annual temperature of about 30 degrees Celsius.

Op zaterdag 4 juni 2022 om 13:19:31 UTC+2 schreef Pandora:
> On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 02:16:52 -0700 (PDT), "littor...@gmail.com"
> <littor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >Op zaterdag 4 juni 2022 om 03:59:52 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> >> Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young man was
> >> certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet. This was taken from an analysis
> >> of the isotopes, or elements, including of carbon and nitrogen, found in his skull.
> >> https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/03/neanderthal-mans-recreated-face-takes-internet-by-storm/

> >Why not inform a *little* bit before talking nonsense??

> From the paper:

Typical article of kudu runner:
prejudiced information, using part of the info:

> "Carbon and nitrogen isotope analysis is a well-established
> method for reconstructing the protein portion of past human diets,
> especially in terms of the amount of marine vs. terrestrial protein,
> and the amount of animal vs. plant protein (see the recent review
> by Lee-Thorp, 2008). The carbon isotope values of -20.6 permille
> (>30 kDa) and -20.2 permille (10–30 kDa) indicate:

that neandertal (Hn) diet was simply intermediate between marine & freshwater foods !!
(more freshwater than marine foods).
This suggests Hn seasonally followed the river from the sea.
Google https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323832499_Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo
p.25
Why not inform inform a *little* bit before talking nonsense ????

> that there was no
> significant (i.e., none, or less than 10%) consumption of marine
> protein by this Neandertal.

Hn diet was indeed nearer to freshwater than to marine foods.

> This is confirmed by the nitrogen
> isotope values of 10.1 permille (>30 kDa) and 10.2 permille (10–30
> kDa), which also do not indicate a significant marine protein input.

Yes, they indicate a diet between freshwater & marine!!
Why are all those kudu-runners so stupid??
> This finding is in line with all previously published studies of
> Neandertals, in which in each case there is also no evidence for any
> significant and regular consumption of marine protein (e.g., Richards
> et al., 2000, 2008; Bocherens et al., 2001,2005; Richards and Schmitz,
> 2008). In order to accurately interpret the d15N value (to determine
> the relative amounts of animal vs. plant proteins in their diet)
> requires comparative faunal isotope values. However, these are
> impossible to obtain with a specimen like this recovered from marine
> sediments. A comparison with other Neandertals from Europe shows
> that this Neandertal has very similar d15N values, and in all of the

= more carnivorous on land mammals than felids are
IOW = impossible, of course, unless you eat more kudus than lions. :-DDD
Hn diet was simply between marine & freshwater foods!
N isotopes show Hn did NOT eat terrestrial foods (unless you are super-carnivorous = impossible).

> published isotopic studies of Neandertals (where comparison with
> associated fauna was possible), the authors have concluded that
> Neandertals were top-level carnivores (e.g., Richards et al.,

:-DDD
"top-level" is a lot more carnivorous than felids if terrestrial foods,
but simply intermediate between freshwater & marine if aquatic foods.

> 2000,2008; Bocherens et al., 2001,2005; Richards and Schmitz,
> 2008). Without comparative faunal evidence we cannot yet determine
> if that is the case with the Zeeland Ridges Neandertal, but as
> the d15N value is very similar to many of the other Neandertals, we
> can suggest that this Neandertal followed the same dietary pattern."
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248409001560

Yes, Hn followed the pattern we see everywhere:
- no terrestrial foods (N isotopes) unless they were more carnivorous than cats (=impssible),
- not competely freshwater, but some marine foods:
- in any case, foods between freshwater & marine (C isotopes).

The *combined* info from C & N isotopes leaves no doubt:
- Hn = intermediate between freshwater & marine foods,
- Hs (fossil) halfway between freshwater & marine.

Apparently Hn seasonally followed the river (Rhine, Meuse...) from the sea.
Probably they ate more freshwater than marine foods.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323832499_Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo
simply see p.24.

Why not inform inform a *little* bit before talking nonsense ????
Disgusting uninformed + stupid top-level idiots.
Keep running after your kudus, little boys.

On Saturday 4 June 2022 at 16:59:11 UTC+1, Pandora wrote:

>> They (fairly reasonably) assumed that
>> earlier hominins were similar to the
>> later ones that occupied Central and
>> Southern Africa. Google "afro hair
>> tribesmen" or see:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians
>. .
> The physique of the Turkana Boy has been likened to that of Nilotic
> people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_peoples
.. .
The current fashion in East Africa appears
to be to keep the hair short. That may be
for comfort, or could be to emphasise
differences from Bantu etc. Take a look
at photos from the colonial era. Search
for images of "fuzzy-wuzzy sudan". You'll
see a lot of Nilotic people with "Afro hair"

>>> How could that be adaptive?
>>. .
>> If it was adaptive later, why not earlier?
>> "Adaptive to what?" is the question.

What is your answer?

> Humans are not cetaceans, and if anything they have a problem
> dissipating heat in tropical environments.

It's common to have two or more competing
pressures. Many would have died from heat
exhaustion, and so selecting for naked bodies
and sweating.

> That explains the sweating,

Sweating needs replacements of salts of
sodium, iodine, potassium, etc.

> the long distal limb segments, the strong vascularization of the scalp
> and emissary veins of the skull, etc.

Vascularisation might be better explained
by the need to keep all that hair growing.

On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 13:17:39 -0700 (PDT), Paul Crowley
<yelworcp@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday 4 June 2022 at 16:59:11 UTC+1, Pandora wrote:
>
>>> They (fairly reasonably) assumed that
>>> earlier hominins were similar to the
>>> later ones that occupied Central and
>>> Southern Africa. Google "afro hair
>>> tribesmen" or see:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians
>>. .
>> The physique of the Turkana Boy has been likened to that of Nilotic
>> people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_peoples
>. .
>The current fashion in East Africa appears
>to be to keep the hair short. That may be
>for comfort, or could be to emphasise
>differences from Bantu etc. Take a look
>at photos from the colonial era. Search
>for images of "fuzzy-wuzzy sudan". You'll
>see a lot of Nilotic people with "Afro hair"

Some of the oldest images are engravings from the 19th century:
https://pixels.com/featured/nuer-chief-collection-abecasisscience-photo-library.html

Or photographs from pioneering 20th century ethnographic studies such
as those by Evans-Pritchard:
<https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249628407_Comparative_Anthropology_and_Evans-Pritchard%27s_Nuer_Photograph_y>

The hair dress varies, but none is as luxureus as in the Turkana Boy
reconstruction.
>>>> How could that be adaptive?
>>>. .
>>> If it was adaptive later, why not earlier?
>>> "Adaptive to what?" is the question.
>
>What is your answer?

First of all, human head hair is not fur, it grows longer and faster:
Also, "The ancestral hair form is frizzier and much shorter. It
survives in sub-Saharan Africans and in other groups whose ancestors
never left the tropics":
https://www.scirp.org/html/6-1590518_60916.htm

I would opt for sexual selection hypothesis.

>> Humans are not cetaceans, and if anything they have a problem
>> dissipating heat in tropical environments.
>
>It's common to have two or more competing
>pressures. Many would have died from heat
>exhaustion, and so selecting for naked bodies
>and sweating.

Since the Turkana Boy lived in the Turkana Basin that must have been
his most urgent thermoregulatory problem. He probably never even saw
the ocean during his entire life.

>> That explains the sweating,
>
>Sweating needs replacements of salts of
>sodium, iodine, potassium, etc.

And water.
That's why we eat and drink.

>> the long distal limb segments, the strong vascularization of the scalp
>> and emissary veins of the skull, etc.
>
>Vascularisation might be better explained
>by the need to keep all that hair growing.

Most of that circulation bypasses the papilla of the hair (the area of
active growth):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermis#/media/File:Blausen_0802_Skin_DermalCirculation.png

On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 6:06:58 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 13:17:39 -0700 (PDT), Paul Crowley
> <yelw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday 4 June 2022 at 16:59:11 UTC+1, Pandora wrote:
> >
> >>> They (fairly reasonably) assumed that
> >>> earlier hominins were similar to the
> >>> later ones that occupied Central and
> >>> Southern Africa. Google "afro hair
> >>> tribesmen" or see:
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians
> >>. .
> >> The physique of the Turkana Boy has been likened to that of Nilotic
> >> people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_peoples
> >. .
> >The current fashion in East Africa appears
> >to be to keep the hair short. That may be
> >for comfort, or could be to emphasise
> >differences from Bantu etc. Take a look
> >at photos from the colonial era. Search
> >for images of "fuzzy-wuzzy sudan". You'll
> >see a lot of Nilotic people with "Afro hair"
> Some of the oldest images are engravings from the 19th century:
> https://pixels.com/featured/nuer-chief-collection-abecasisscience-photo-library.html
>
> Or photographs from pioneering 20th century ethnographic studies such
> as those by Evans-Pritchard:
> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249628407_Comparative_Anthropology_and_Evans-Pritchard%27s_Nuer_Photograph_y>
>
> The hair dress varies, but none is as luxureus as in the Turkana Boy
> reconstruction.
> >>>> How could that be adaptive?
> >>>. .
> >>> If it was adaptive later, why not earlier?
> >>> "Adaptive to what?" is the question.
> >
> >What is your answer?
> First of all, human head hair is not fur, it grows longer and faster:
> Also, "The ancestral hair form is frizzier and much shorter.

Longer/shorter not significant, frizzier is meaningless.

Human scalp hair is ape fur with a longer growth phase and later cut-off phase directly associated with baby piggyback riding in archaic Homo and H sapiens.

Tightly coiled hair (Africa) and ultra-straight hair (Asia) are recently derived geographic/climate induced selection.

It
> survives in sub-Saharan Africans and in other groups whose ancestors
> never left the tropics":
> https://www.scirp.org/html/6-1590518_60916.htm
>
> I would opt for sexual selection hypothesis.

Aside from pregnancy effect, M & F scalp hair is identical, disproving sexual selection.

> >> Humans are not cetaceans, and if anything they have a problem
> >> dissipating heat in tropical environments.
> >
> >It's common to have two or more competing
> >pressures. Many would have died from heat
> >exhaustion, and so selecting for naked bodies
> >and sweating.
> Since the Turkana Boy lived in the Turkana Basin that must have been
> his most urgent thermoregulatory problem. He probably never even saw
> the ocean during his entire life.
> >> That explains the sweating,
> >
> >Sweating needs replacements of salts of
> >sodium, iodine, potassium, etc.
> And water.
> That's why we eat and drink.
> >> the long distal limb segments, the strong vascularization of the scalp
> >> and emissary veins of the skull, etc.
> >
> >Vascularisation might be better explained
> >by the need to keep all that hair growing.
> Most of that circulation bypasses the papilla of the hair (the area of
> active growth):
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermis#/media/File:Blausen_0802_Skin_DermalCirculation.png

On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 7:59:25 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Monday, June 6, 2022 at 6:06:58 AM UTC-4, Pandora wrote:
> > On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 13:17:39 -0700 (PDT), Paul Crowley
> > <yelw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Saturday 4 June 2022 at 16:59:11 UTC+1, Pandora wrote:
> > >
> > >>> They (fairly reasonably) assumed that
> > >>> earlier hominins were similar to the
> > >>> later ones that occupied Central and
> > >>> Southern Africa. Google "afro hair
> > >>> tribesmen" or see:
> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians
> > >>. .
> > >> The physique of the Turkana Boy has been likened to that of Nilotic
> > >> people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_peoples
> > >. .
> > >The current fashion in East Africa appears
> > >to be to keep the hair short. That may be
> > >for comfort, or could be to emphasise
> > >differences from Bantu etc. Take a look
> > >at photos from the colonial era. Search
> > >for images of "fuzzy-wuzzy sudan". You'll
> > >see a lot of Nilotic people with "Afro hair"
> > Some of the oldest images are engravings from the 19th century:
> > https://pixels.com/featured/nuer-chief-collection-abecasisscience-photo-library.html
> >
> > Or photographs from pioneering 20th century ethnographic studies such
> > as those by Evans-Pritchard:
> > <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249628407_Comparative_Anthropology_and_Evans-Pritchard%27s_Nuer_Photograph_y>
> >
> > The hair dress varies, but none is as luxureus as in the Turkana Boy
> > reconstruction.
> > >>>> How could that be adaptive?
> > >>>. .
> > >>> If it was adaptive later, why not earlier?
> > >>> "Adaptive to what?" is the question.
> > >
> > >What is your answer?
> > First of all, human head hair is not fur, it grows longer and faster:
> > Also, "The ancestral hair form is frizzier and much shorter.
> Longer/shorter not significant, frizzier is meaningless.
>
> Human scalp hair is ape fur with a longer growth phase and later cut-off phase directly associated with baby piggyback riding in archaic Homo and H sapiens.
>
> Tightly coiled hair (Africa) and ultra-straight hair (Asia) are recently derived geographic/climate induced selection.
> It
> > survives in sub-Saharan Africans and in other groups whose ancestors
> > never left the tropics":
> > https://www.scirp.org/html/6-1590518_60916.htm
> >
> > I would opt for sexual selection hypothesis.
> Aside from pregnancy effect, M & F scalp hair is identical, disproving sexual selection.
> > >> Humans are not cetaceans, and if anything they have a problem
> > >> dissipating heat in tropical environments.
> > >
> > >It's common to have two or more competing
> > >pressures. Many would have died from heat
> > >exhaustion, and so selecting for naked bodies
> > >and sweating.
> > Since the Turkana Boy lived in the Turkana Basin that must have been
> > his most urgent thermoregulatory problem. He probably never even saw
> > the ocean during his entire life.
> > >> That explains the sweating,
> > >
> > >Sweating needs replacements of salts of
> > >sodium, iodine, potassium, etc.
> > And water.
> > That's why we eat and drink.
> > >> the long distal limb segments, the strong vascularization of the scalp
> > >> and emissary veins of the skull, etc.
> > >
> > >Vascularisation might be better explained
> > >by the need to keep all that hair growing.
> > Most of that circulation bypasses the papilla of the hair (the area of
> > active growth):
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermis#/media/File:Blausen_0802_Skin_DermalCirculation.png

Examine: https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/local/2016/11/25/zoos-baby-orangutan-charmer/94170736/

infant grasps mother's head hair but not skin, piggybacking infant has human-like scalp hair.

Pandora wrote:

> First of all, human head hair is not fur, it grows longer and faster:
> Also, "The ancestral hair form is frizzier and much shorter. It
> survives in sub-Saharan Africans and in other groups whose ancestors
> never left the tropics":
> https://www.scirp.org/html/6-1590518_60916.htm
>
> I would opt for sexual selection hypothesis.

From the paper:

"2.1.

"Aquatic Ape HypothesisThe aquatic ape hypothesis was first proposed by
the German
pathologist Max Westenhöfer in 1942 and later by the English marine
biologist Alister
Hardy in 1960. It is best known to the public through the writings of
Elaine Morgan, who
argued that head hair lengthened during an aquatic phase of human
evolution that forced
infants to hang on to their mother’s hair while in the water “and if the
hair floated around
her for a yard or so on the surface [the infant] wouldn’t have to make so
accurate a beeline
in swimming towards her” (Morgan, 1972: p. 36) .

"Yard-long hair did not yet exist when modern humans began to spread out
of Africa.
Between then and now, there is no evidence of humans going through an
aquatic stage.
Admittedly, this explanation of long head hair is of marginal importance
in the aquatic ape
hypothesis, which itself has been marginal in the scientific community."

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> Interestingly, a study in the Journal of Human Evolution showed that although the young man was certainly carnivorous, there was no evidence of any seafood in his diet. This was taken from an analysis of the isotopes, or elements, including of carbon and nitrogen, found in his skull.
>
>
> https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/03/neanderthal-mans-recreated-face-takes-internet-by-storm/
>

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047248409001560
Journal of Human Evolution
Volume 57, Issue 6, December 2009, Pages 777-785

Out of the North Sea: the Zeeland Ridges Neandertal

Abstract
In 2001, a portion of human frontal bone was discovered in sediments
extracted
from the bottom of the North Sea, 15 km off the coast of the Netherlands. The
extraction zone is located in the so-called Zeeland Ridges area located at
51°40′
northern latitude and 3°20′ eastern longitude. The specimen was dredged up
from sediments containing Late Pleistocene faunal remains and Middle
Palaeolithic
artefacts, including well-finished small handaxes and Levallois flakes.
The details of
the supraorbital morphology, as well as the quantitative assessment of the
shape
of the external surface of the squama using traditional and 3D geometric
morphometrics, unambiguously assign the Zeeland Ridges frontal bone to Homo
neanderthalensis. Carbon and nitrogen isotopic analysis indicate that the
Zeeland
Ridges hominin, like other Neandertals, was highly carnivorous and does
not show
evidence for the consumption of aquatic foods. A lesion on the outer table
and
diploic layer of the bone in the area of the supratoral sulcus can be
interpreted as
the result of an intradiploic epidermoid cyst, a type of neoplasm
diagnosed for the
first time in Neandertal remains. So far, the Zeeland Ridges Neandertal is
the first Pleistocene fossil hominin found under seawater and the first
recorded in the
Netherlands.

THe non pay walled paper is here

<https://www.academia.edu/14168620/Out_of_the_North_Sea_the_Zeeland_Ridges_Neandertal>

<https://www.academia.edu/9566466/Marc_Verhaegen_1985_1995_Medical_Hypotheses_papers_on_AAT>

"When the Moustier Neandertal was excavated (1908), the nostrils, which
could still be discerned then, were situated at the top instead of underneath
the nose as in H.sapiens(55)."

"In a Neandertal swimmingon his back, the large nose with distal nostrils and
the protruding midface surrounded by large air sinuses functioned as a
snorkel."

55. Moerman P. In het spoor van de Neanderthal-mens. Boekerij, Baarn, 1977

On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 21:37:26 -0600, Primum Sapienti
<invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Pandora wrote:
>
>
>> First of all, human head hair is not fur, it grows longer and faster:
>> Also, "The ancestral hair form is frizzier and much shorter. It
>> survives in sub-Saharan Africans and in other groups whose ancestors
>> never left the tropics":
>> https://www.scirp.org/html/6-1590518_60916.htm
>>
>> I would opt for sexual selection hypothesis.
>
> From the paper:
>
>"2.1.
>
>"Aquatic Ape HypothesisThe aquatic ape hypothesis was first proposed by
>the German
>pathologist Max Westenhöfer in 1942 and later by the English marine
>biologist Alister
>Hardy in 1960. It is best known to the public through the writings of
>Elaine Morgan, who
>argued that head hair lengthened during an aquatic phase of human
>evolution that forced
>infants to hang on to their mother’s hair while in the water “and if the
>hair floated around
>her for a yard or so on the surface [the infant] wouldn’t have to make so
>accurate a beeline
>in swimming towards her” (Morgan, 1972: p. 36) .
>
>"Yard-long hair did not yet exist when modern humans began to spread out
>of Africa.
>Between then and now, there is no evidence of humans going through an
>aquatic stage.
>Admittedly, this explanation of long head hair is of marginal importance
>in the aquatic ape
>hypothesis, which itself has been marginal in the scientific community."

I'm pretty sure somebody is going to complain about those stupid kudu
runners again.

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 11:37:27 PM UTC-4, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> Pandora wrote:
>
>
> > First of all, human head hair is not fur, it grows longer and faster:
> > Also, "The ancestral hair form is frizzier and much shorter. It
> > survives in sub-Saharan Africans and in other groups whose ancestors
> > never left the tropics":
> > https://www.scirp.org/html/6-1590518_60916.htm
> >
> > I would opt for sexual selection hypothesis.
> From the paper:
>
> "2.1.
>
> "Aquatic Ape HypothesisThe aquatic ape hypothesis was first proposed by
> the German
> pathologist Max Westenhöfer in 1942 and later by the English marine
> biologist Alister
> Hardy in 1960. It is best known to the public through the writings of
> Elaine Morgan, who
> argued that head hair lengthened during an aquatic phase of human
> evolution that forced
> infants to hang on to their mother’s hair while in the water “and if the
> hair floated around
> her for a yard or so on the surface [the infant] wouldn’t have to make so
> accurate a beeline
> in swimming towards her” (Morgan, 1972: p. 36) .
>
> "Yard-long hair did not yet exist when modern humans began to spread out
> of Africa.
> Between then and now, there is no evidence of humans going through an
> aquatic stage.
> Admittedly, this explanation of long head hair is of marginal importance
> in the aquatic ape
> hypothesis, which itself has been marginal in the scientific community."

Yard-long scalp hair is found only among post-agricultural peoples, no H&G people had such lengthy locks.
Morgan was correct that scalp hair was held by infants, but it was while piggyback riding upon parents walking and hill climbing that produced a selective advantage, enabling parents to carry food, tools, weapons while unhindered.

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> <https://www.academia.edu/9566466/Marc_Verhaegen_1985_1995_Medical_Hypotheses_papers_on_AAT>
>
> "When the Moustier Neandertal was excavated (1908), the nostrils, which
> could still be discerned then, were situated at the top instead of underneath
> the nose as in H.sapiens(55)."

You're not an "Elaborate" thinker, to borrow a term, so let me help you out a
little here: What do you think might establish the validity of the claim?

Obviously you of all people can't be a scientific FRAUD so you test ideas, you
never grasp at a-priori assumptions.

Heaven forbid! No, not you! So when you hear a claim that you FEEL is
anomalous you of course want to test it. Because, leaving it to knee jerk
is the furthest thing from scientific and you, Madame, are science
incarnate. So that leaves us with HOW to test this claim.

Well? How would YOU propose that the claim be tested?

.....I am literally *Gushing* in anticipation here! I'm on the edge of my seat,
awaiting your answer.

And thank you so very much, in advance, for what will undoubtedly be another
triumph of scientific thought.

Thank you! Nay; BLESS YOU!

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/686507620949966848

The *only* "argument" of the kudu runners:
> ... the aquatic ape
> hypothesis ... has been marginal in the scientific community."

:-DDD

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 3:40:08 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> The *only* "argument" of the kudu runners:
> > ... the aquatic ape
> > hypothesis ... has been marginal in the scientific community."
>
> :-DDD

https://www.quora.com/Is-anybodys-race-100-pure-I-saw-an-article-that-white-supremacists-are-using-DNA-test-to-prove-their-whiteness-and-are-being-disappointed-to-find-out-they-are-of-mixed-race?ch=10&oid=18124969&share=04143bdb&srid=RPhZF&target_type=question

Op donderdag 9 juni 2022 om 03:19:13 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 3:40:08 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> > The *only* "argument" of the kudu runners:
> > "... the aquatic ape hypothesis ... has been marginal in the scientific community."
> > :-DDD

> https://www.quora.com/Is-anybodys-race-100-pure-I-saw-an-article-that-white-supremacists-are-using-DNA-test-to-prove-their-whiteness-and-are-being-disappointed-to-find-out-they-are-of-mixed-race?ch=10&oid=18124969&share=04143bdb&srid=RPhZF&target_type=question

Yes, thanks, my boy, this confirms that the savanna idea is the most ridiculous & scientifically impossible nonsense.