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tech / sci.math / Re: Natural numbers and vases

SubjectAuthor
* Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesRoss A. Finlayson
+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
|+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
|| +- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
|| `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||  `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||   +- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||   `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||    `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||     +- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||     `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||      +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||      `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       ||`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       || `- Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       |`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | ||+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | ||| `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFromTheRafters
||       | |||  ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasesChris M. Thomasson
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesJim Burns
||       | |||  |||`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||| +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesJim Burns
||       | |||  ||| |`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||| | +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesJim Burns
||       | |||  ||| | |`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||| | | +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesJim Burns
||       | |||  ||| | | |`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||| | | | `- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||| | | `- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||| | `- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||| `- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||`* Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  || `- Re: Natural numbers and vasesChet Hirasi
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasesChet Hirasi
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||`* Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  || `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||  `* Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||   +* Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||   |`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesFredJeffries
||       | |||  ||   | `- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||   `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesChris M. Thomasson
||       | |||  ||    `* Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||     +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesChris M. Thomasson
||       | |||  ||     |`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||     `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesChris M. Thomasson
||       | |||  ||      `* Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||       `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesChris M. Thomasson
||       | |||  ||        +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesChris M. Thomasson
||       | |||  ||        |`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||        `- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  ||+- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  ||`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesChris M. Thomasson
||       | |||  || +* Re: Natural numbers and vasesFromTheRafters
||       | |||  || `* Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesGus Gassmann
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWilliam
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  |`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vaseszelos...@gmail.com
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vaseszelos...@gmail.com
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vaseszelos...@gmail.com
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vaseszelos...@gmail.com
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vaseszelos...@gmail.com
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
||       | |||  +- Re: Natural numbers and vaseszelos...@gmail.com
||       | |||  `- Re: Natural numbers and vaseszelos...@gmail.com
||       | ||`- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | |`* Re: Natural numbers and vasesWM
||       | +- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
||       | `* Re: Natural numbers and vasesJim Burns
||       `- Re: Natural numbers and vasessergio
|+- Re: Natural numbers and vasesRoss A. Finlayson
|`- Re: Natural numbers and vasesFritz Feldhase
+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesChris M. Thomasson
+* Re: Natural numbers and vasesMostowski Collapse
`- Re: Natural numbers and vasesSocratis T.n.p.

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Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 13:12:53 +0000
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 by: WM - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 13:12 UTC

William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 23:12:57 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:15:17 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
> > My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.
> Nope, You demonstrate that your method does not get the bijection.

My method is Cantor's method. Only the language differs slightly. But we could even use Cantor's original language, if only the indices first were associated with the integer fractions and then taken from there.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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 by: sergi o - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 13:24 UTC

On 6/23/2022 8:12 AM, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 23:12:57 UTC+2:
>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:15:17 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>> not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
>>> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.
>> Nope, You demonstrate that your method does not get the bijection.
>
> My method is Cantor's method.

Liar. You cannot even generate an equation.

> Only the language differs slightly.

Liar. Admit your Swaparoofest is purely deception.

> But we could even use Cantor's original language,if only the indices first were associated with the integer fractions and then taken from there.

Clearly, you will not understand Cantor.

>
> Regards, WM

the only reason you try to disprove Cantor, is because you cannot post any original math yourself.

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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 by: Python - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 13:43 UTC

Crank Wolfgang Mückenheim, aka WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 23:12:57 UTC+2:
>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:15:17 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>> not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
>>> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.
>> Nope, You demonstrate that your method does not get the bijection.
>
> My method is Cantor's method. Only the language differs slightly.

No, you're doing far more than that. There is an irrefutable way
to check that Cantor's argument is sound, while yours is not:
Cantor's proof can be written in a theorem solver such as Coq
or HOL (and checked), while your idiotic sophistry and shell
game cannot.

You are a kook, Wolfgang, and a shame to German Academia.

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 14:45:22 +0000
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 by: WM - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 14:45 UTC

Python schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 15:44:00 UTC+2:
> There is an irrefutable way
> to check that Cantor's argument is sound, while yours is not:
> Cantor's proof can be written in a theorem solver such as Coq
> or HOL (and checked),

There are no irrefutable ways. The basis of these problem solvers is wrong. Therefore they are as wrong as their masters.

Look: There are mostly dark numbers. They cannot be used for mappings. That is what the problem solvers and their masters did not know. Here is the proof:

Every definable endsegment is infinite. Compared to |N it has lost only few natnumbers. More cannot get lost in a definable way.
But all natnumbers have vanished in the itersection of all undefinable endsegments.

Regards, WM

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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 by: FromTheRafters - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 14:56 UTC

WM presented the following explanation :
> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 23:12:57 UTC+2:
>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:15:17 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>> not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
>>> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.
>> Nope, You demonstrate that your method does not get the bijection.
>
> My method is Cantor's method. Only the language differs slightly. But we
> could even use Cantor's original language, if only the indices first were
> associated with the integer fractions and then taken from there.

Which they were not, and for good reason. It simply doesn't *SHOW* that
the bijection exists when done your way. Your inability to prove the
existence of something does not mean that that something does not
exist.

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:16 UTC

FromTheRafters schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 16:56:50 UTC+2:
> WM presented the following explanation :
> > William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 23:12:57 UTC+2:
> >> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:15:17 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> >> not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
> >>> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.
> >> Nope, You demonstrate that your method does not get the bijection.
> >
> > My method is Cantor's method. Only the language differs slightly. But we
> > could even use Cantor's original language, if only the indices first were
> > associated with the integer fractions and then taken from there.
> Which they were not, and for good reason.

Can you name one?

> It simply doesn't *SHOW* that
> the bijection exists when done your way. Your inability to prove the
> existence of something does not mean that that something does not
> exist.

It seems to be detrimental first to check the number of indices by indexing the integer fractions. Strange.

Regards, WM

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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 08:19:16 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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 by: William - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:19 UTC

On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 10:13:03 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:

> My method is Cantor's method.

Nope. Cantor defined an algorithm by which you could get rational given a natural. . Cantor does not use a series of exchanges to define a set. Let the algorithm be f. Then the bijection is { (n, f(n) ) | n element of N} . You cannot use a series of exchanges to define this set.
(You can use a series of exchanges to define the algorithm.

--
William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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 by: William - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:24 UTC

On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 11:45:32 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:

> There are mostly dark numbers.

Piffle. The natural numbers are a Peano set and a Peano set does not contain "dark" numbers.

William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: franz.fr...@gmail.com (Fritz Feldhase)
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 by: Fritz Feldhase - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:38 UTC

On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 5:19:26 PM UTC+2, William wrote:
> On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 10:13:03 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> >
> > My method is Cantor's method.
> >
> Nope. Cantor defined an algorithm [etc,]

I don't think so. Cantor defined a _function_.

See: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantorsche_Paarungsfunktion

(The Wikipedia entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pairing_function is misleading, sorry.)

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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From: nom...@afraid.org (FromTheRafters)
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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 12:01:38 -0400
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 by: FromTheRafters - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 16:01 UTC

WM pretended :
> FromTheRafters schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 16:56:50 UTC+2:
>> WM presented the following explanation :
>>> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 23:12:57 UTC+2:
>>>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:15:17 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>> not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
>>>>> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.
>>>> Nope, You demonstrate that your method does not get the bijection.
>>>
>>> My method is Cantor's method. Only the language differs slightly. But we
>>> could even use Cantor's original language, if only the indices first were
>>> associated with the integer fractions and then taken from there.
>> Which they were not, and for good reason.
>
> Can you name one?
>
>> It simply doesn't *SHOW* that
>> the bijection exists when done your way. Your inability to prove the
>> existence of something does not mean that that something does not
>> exist.
>
> It seems to be detrimental first to check the number of indices by indexing
> the integer fractions. Strange.

In this sense there are 'just as many' elements in any countably
infinite set. You make a sequence which doesn't *demonstrate* this and
think it proves non-existence of a bijection.

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 17:20:29 +0000
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 by: WM - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 17:20 UTC

William schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 17:19:26 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 10:13:03 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>
> > My method is Cantor's method.
> Nope. Cantor defined an algorithm by which you could get rational given a natural.

Just as I do, because I use his algorithm.

>. Cantor does not use a series of exchanges to define a set.

He was careful not to do that, because it shows his failure.

> Let the algorithm be f. Then the bijection is { (n, f(n) ) | n element of N} . You cannot use a series of exchanges to define this set.

But you must use it if you are honest enough first to check the set |N.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 17:22:52 +0000
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 by: WM - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 17:22 UTC

Fritz Feldhase schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 17:38:39 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 5:19:26 PM UTC+2, William wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 10:13:03 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > >
> > > My method is Cantor's method.
> > >
> > Nope. Cantor defined an algorithm [etc,]
>
> I don't think so. Cantor defined a _function_

Whatever he did. I do precisely the same. Only, in addition, I first check the set |N.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 17:27:02 +0000
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 by: WM - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 17:27 UTC


FromTheRafters schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 18:01:55 UTC+2:
> WM pretended :
> > FromTheRafters schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 16:56:50 UTC+2:
> >> WM presented the following explanation :
> >>> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 23:12:57 UTC+2:
> >>>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:15:17 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> >>>> not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
> >>>>> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.
> >>>> Nope, You demonstrate that your method does not get the bijection.
> >>>
> >>> My method is Cantor's method. Only the language differs slightly. But we
> >>> could even use Cantor's original language, if only the indices first were
> >>> associated with the integer fractions and then taken from there.
> >> Which they were not, and for good reason.
> >
> > Can you name one?
Obviously not.
> >
> >> It simply doesn't *SHOW* that
> >> the bijection exists when done your way. Your inability to prove the
> >> existence of something does not mean that that something does not
> >> exist.
> >
> > It seems to be detrimental first to check the number of indices by indexing
> > the integer fractions. Strange.
> In this sense there are 'just as many' elements in any countably
> infinite set.

Then it should be possible to first enumerate the integer fractions and the all fractions.

> You make a sequence which doesn't *demonstrate* this

I make a sequence which shows that you are wrong.

> and
> think it proves non-existence of a bijection.

It proves the impossibility of Cantor's attempt.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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From: nom...@afraid.org (FromTheRafters)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 14:41:24 -0400
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 by: FromTheRafters - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 18:41 UTC

After serious thinking WM wrote :
>
> FromTheRafters schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 18:01:55 UTC+2:
>> WM pretended :
>>> FromTheRafters schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 16:56:50 UTC+2:
>>>> WM presented the following explanation :
>>>>> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 23:12:57 UTC+2:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:15:17 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>>>> not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
>>>>>>> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.
>>>>>> Nope, You demonstrate that your method does not get the bijection.
>>>>>
>>>>> My method is Cantor's method. Only the language differs slightly. But we
>>>>> could even use Cantor's original language, if only the indices first were
>>>>> associated with the integer fractions and then taken from there.
>>>> Which they were not, and for good reason.
>>>
>>> Can you name one?
>
> Obviously not.
>>>
>>>> It simply doesn't *SHOW* that
>>>> the bijection exists when done your way. Your inability to prove the
>>>> existence of something does not mean that that something does not
>>>> exist.
>>>
>>> It seems to be detrimental first to check the number of indices by indexing
>>> the integer fractions. Strange.
>> In this sense there are 'just as many' elements in any countably
>> infinite set.
>
> Then it should be possible to first enumerate the integer fractions and the
> all fractions.
>
>> You make a sequence which doesn't *demonstrate* this
>
> I make a sequence which shows that you are wrong.
>
>> and
>> think it proves non-existence of a bijection.
>
> It proves the impossibility of Cantor's attempt.

No, it does not do that.

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
Injection-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 18:42:51 +0000
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 by: William - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 18:42 UTC

On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> >. Cantor does not use a series of exchanges to define a set.
> He was careful not to do that, because it shows his failure.

Nope, he uses a method that works instead

> > Let the algorithm be f. Then the bijection is { (n, f(n) ) | n element of N} . You cannot use a series of exchanges to define this set.
> But you must use it if you are honest enough first to check the set |N.

The set |N exists and is a Peano set (axiom of infinity). Hence if n is an element of |N, f(n) exists (induction).

--
William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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 by: sergi o - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 20:17 UTC

On 6/23/2022 12:27 PM, WM wrote:
>
> FromTheRafters schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 18:01:55 UTC+2:
>> WM pretended :
>>> FromTheRafters schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 16:56:50 UTC+2:
>>>> WM presented the following explanation :
>>>>> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 23:12:57 UTC+2:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:15:17 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>>>> not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
>>>>>>> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.
>>>>>> Nope, You demonstrate that your method does not get the bijection.
>>>>>
>>>>> My method is Cantor's method. Only the language differs slightly. But we
>>>>> could even use Cantor's original language, if only the indices first were
>>>>> associated with the integer fractions and then taken from there.
>>>> Which they were not, and for good reason.
>>>
>>> Can you name one?
>
> Obviously not.
>>>
>>>> It simply doesn't *SHOW* that
>>>> the bijection exists when done your way. Your inability to prove the
>>>> existence of something does not mean that that something does not
>>>> exist.
>>>
>>> It seems to be detrimental first to check the number of indices by indexing
>>> the integer fractions. Strange.
>> In this sense there are 'just as many' elements in any countably
>> infinite set.
>
> Then it should be possible to first enumerate the integer fractions and the all fractions.
>
>> You make a sequence which doesn't *demonstrate* this
>
> I make a sequence which shows that you are wrong.

Liar, you swaparoofest.

>
>> and
>> think it proves non-existence of a bijection.
>
> It spoofs the impossibility of Cantor's attempt.

Liar.

>
> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergi o)
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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:18:50 -0500
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 by: sergi o - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 20:18 UTC

On 6/23/2022 12:22 PM, WM wrote:
> Fritz Feldhase schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 17:38:39 UTC+2:
>> On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 5:19:26 PM UTC+2, William wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 10:13:03 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My method is Cantor's method.
>>>>
>>> Nope. Cantor defined an algorithm [etc,]
>>
>> I don't think so. Cantor defined a _function_
>
> Whatever he did. I do precisely the same.

Liar!

You swapped, swapparoo, swapparoofestival

> Only, in addition, I first check the set |N.

your entire approach is wrong.

>
> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:22:01 -0500
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 by: sergi o - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 20:22 UTC

On 6/23/2022 12:20 PM, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 17:19:26 UTC+2:
>> On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 10:13:03 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>
>>> My method is Cantor's method.
>> Nope. Cantor defined an algorithm by which you could get rational given a natural.
>
> Just as I do, because I use his algorithm.

no, you use swaps, because you cannot understand or generate equations.

>
>> . Cantor does not use a series of exchanges to define a set.
>
> He was careful not to do that, because it shows his failure.

wrong.

>
>> Let the algorithm be f. Then the bijection is { (n, f(n) ) | n element of N} . You cannot use a series of exchanges to define this set.
>
> But you must use it if you are honest enough first to check the set |N.

says you, but you are totally confused.

>
> Regards, WM

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: franz.fr...@gmail.com (Fritz Feldhase)
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 by: Fritz Feldhase - Fri, 24 Jun 2022 06:22 UTC

On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 7:23:02 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:

> [...] in addition, I first check the set IN.

You are like Chuck Norris, man!

You know, he counted to infinity - twice.

Keep up the good work, Mückenheim!

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: franz.fr...@gmail.com (Fritz Feldhase)
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 by: Fritz Feldhase - Fri, 24 Jun 2022 06:31 UTC

On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 3:13:03 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:

> My method is Cantor's method. Only the language differs slightly.

Yes, you are like Cantor. Only better!

Keep up the good work, Mückenheim!

Save the world!

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 15:50:20 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: WM - Fri, 24 Jun 2022 15:50 UTC

William schrieb am Donnerstag, 23. Juni 2022 um 20:42:59 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>
> > >. Cantor does not use a series of exchanges to define a set.
> > He was careful not to do that, because it shows his failure.
> Nope, he uses a method that works instead

A method that appears to work if not checked but believed in matheology.
As I have shown it does not work.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
Injection-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:05:35 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: William - Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:05 UTC

On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 12:50:30 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > He was careful not to do that, because it shows his failure.
> > Nope, he uses a method that works instead
> A method that appears to work if not checked

|N exists and is a Peano set (axiom of infinity). f(n) exists for every element of |N (induction). Hence the bijection { (n,f(n) | n in |N} exists.
Checking done.

--
William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:24:42 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: WM - Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:24 UTC

William schrieb am Freitag, 24. Juni 2022 um 18:05:45 UTC+2:
> On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 12:50:30 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > He was careful not to do that, because it shows his failure.
> > > Nope, he uses a method that works instead
> > A method that appears to work if not checked
> |N exists and is a Peano set (axiom of infinity). f(n) exists for every element of |N (induction). Hence the bijection { (n,f(n) | n in |N} exists.
> Checking done.

Of course. The function { (n, n/1) | n in |N} exists. Here you can see it:

XOOO...
XOOO...
XOOO...
XOOO...
....

But never the matrix

1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ...
2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ...
3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ...
4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ...
5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ...
....

will be covered by indeXes. That function does not exist except the first few terms.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
Injection-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:05:55 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: William - Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:05 UTC

On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 1:24:52 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Freitag, 24. Juni 2022 um 18:05:45 UTC+2:
at appears to work if not checked
> > |N exists and is a Peano set (axiom of infinity). f(n) exists for every element of |N (induction). Hence the bijection { (n,f(n) | n in |N} exists.
<snip>
>That function does not exist except the first few terms.

Nope. |N is a Peano set thus induction holds for every element of |N. f(n) exist for every element of |N (induction),

--
William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: zelos.ma...@gmail.com (zelos...@gmail.com)
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 by: zelos...@gmail.com - Sat, 25 Jun 2022 07:45 UTC

onsdag 22 juni 2022 kl. 15:47:43 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 01:45:38 UTC+2:
> > On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 5:04:51 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > use a method that is "proved" to be a bijection.
> > > > Nope. The method you use does not get to the bijection designed by Cantor. Every step only produces part of the bijection. You have not defined a state where all steps are done.
> > > >
> > > Neither has Cantor. All he does is this:
> > > k = (m + n - 1)(m + n - 2)/2 + m
> > E.g. gives an algorithm relating k and (m,n). Note that this algorithm works for any k.
> Just like mine. The reason is that I plagiated Cantor's algorithm.
> > A matrix at any step represents only part of this algorithm.
> My infinite sequence of matrices is constructed according to k = (m + n - 1)(m + n - 2)/2 + m, just like Cantor's sequence 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, ... At any step it represents only part of this algorithm.
> > Given any k, you can find a matrix, M_k, which will work for k. There is no single matrix that works for any k.
> There is the infinite sequence of matrices, just like Cantor's infinite sequence. There is no last term just like in Cantor's sequence. Only all terms are given. One and the same algorithm is the basis for Cantor's and for my sequence. Cantor's sequence is plagiated by my matrices. It is the same item, only a slightly different language, showing that he fails.
>
> Regards, WM
He doesn't fail, you fail to understand basic fucking mathematics.

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