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tech / sci.math / Re: Natural numbers and vases

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t8sj1e$4ds$1@gioia.aioe.org>

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=103875&group=sci.math#103875

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergi o)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 09:02:20 -0500
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by: sergi o - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 14:02 UTC

On 6/21/2022 6:50 AM, WM wrote:
> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 23:10:30 UTC+2:
>> It happens that WM formulated :
>>> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 17:57:15 UTC+2:
>>>
>>>> Endsegments don't shrink.
>>>
>>> They do, compared to their predecessors:
>>> ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
>> No, they don't. They are all the same size.
>
> Nevertheless they do
> ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
> ∀k ∈ ℕ: |E(k+1)| = |E(k)| - 1.
>
> Regards, WM

Wrong.

|E(k+1)| = aleph_0

|E(k)| = aleph_0

|E(1)| = aleph_0

Go learn the math of infinity!

you are not doing any better here.

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t8sj6i$4ds$2@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergi o)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 09:05:04 -0500
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by: sergi o - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 14:05 UTC

On 6/21/2022 6:50 AM, WM wrote:
> Fritz Feldhase schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 23:27:26 UTC+2:
>> On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 10:08:37 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:
>>> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 17:57:15 UTC+2:
>>>>
>>>> Endsments don't shrik.
>>>>
>>> They do
>>>
>>> ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
>> No, they don't: ∀k ∈ ℕ: |E(k+1)| = |E(k)|.
>
> They do
> ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
> ∀k ∈ ℕ: |E(k+1)| = |E(k)| - 1.
>
> Regards, WM

Wrong.

|E(k+1)| = aleph_0

|E(k)| = aleph_0

|E(1)| = aleph_0

|E(k+1)| = |E(k)| - 1 = aleph_0

Go learn the math of infinity!

go learn to read and write equations!

you are not doing any good here.

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t8t0pb$onn$3@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: anu...@bnryagry.oo (Berry Nagumo)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:57:01 -0000 (UTC)
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by: Berry Nagumo - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:57 UTC

sergi o wrote:

>> They do ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k} ∀k ∈ ℕ: |E(k+1)| = |E(k)| - 1.
>> Regards, WM
>
> Wrong. |E(k+1)| = aleph_0

morone,

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Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:04:42 +0000
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by: WM - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:04 UTC

William schrieb am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2022 um 15:38:51 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 8:53:20 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > William schrieb am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2022 um 04:00:33 UTC+2:
> > > On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 5:14:12 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > > ... Proof:
> > > >
> > > > 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ...
> > > > 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ...
> > > > 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ...
> > > > 4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ...
> > > > 5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ...
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > 1/1, 2/1, 1/3, 1/4, ... 1/1, 3/1, 1/3, 1/4, ... 1/1, 3/1, 4/1, 1/4, ... 1/1, 3/1, 4/1, 1/4, ...
> > > > 1/2, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ... 1/2, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ... 1/2, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ... 1/2, 5/1, 2/3, 2/4, ...
> > > > 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ... 2/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ... 2/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ... 2/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ...
> > > > 4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ... 4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ... 1/3, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ... 1/3, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ...
> > > > 5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ... 5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ... 5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ... 2/2, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ...
> > > > ... ... ... ...
> > > >
> > > > will never gather all fractions in te first column:
> > > So what? If you use a method that cannot get to the bijection, the method will not get to the bijection.
> > But I use a method that is "proved" to be a bijection.
> Nope. The method you use does not get to the bijection designed by Cantor. Every step only produces part of the bijection. You have not defined a state where all steps are done.
>
Neither has Cantor. All he does is this:
k = (m + n - 1)(m + n - 2)/2 + m
No last k, no all k's.
1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, 2/4, 3/3, 4/2, 5/1, 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2, 6/1, ... No last term, no all terms.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:08 UTC

FromTheRafters schrieb am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2022 um 15:17:28 UTC+2:
> WM formulated on Tuesday :
> > FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 23:10:30 UTC+2:
> >> It happens that WM formulated :
> >>> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 17:57:15 UTC+2:
> >>>
> >>>> Endsegments don't shrink.
> >>>
> >>> They do, compared to their predecessors:
> >>> ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
> >> No, they don't. They are all the same size.
> >
> > Nevertheless they do
> > ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
> > ∀k ∈ ℕ: |E(k+1)| = |E(k)| - 1.
> Use Cardinal Arithmetic when working with infinite cardinalities.

I showed that they are nonsense.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: franz.fr...@gmail.com (Fritz Feldhase)
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by: Fritz Feldhase - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:10 UTC

On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 10:04:51 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:

> No last k, no all k's.

Holy shit!

Consider the sequence of all natural numbers:

(1, 2, 3, ...)

No last natural number in this sequence, hence not all natural number in this sequence [of all natural number]?

> 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, 2/4, 3/3, 4/2, 5/1, 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2, 6/1, ... No last term, no all terms.

You are cracy, Mückenheim!

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:12 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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by: sergi o - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:53 UTC

On 6/21/2022 3:08 PM, WM wrote:
> FromTheRafters schrieb am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2022 um 15:17:28 UTC+2:
>> WM formulated on Tuesday :
>>> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 23:10:30 UTC+2:
>>>> It happens that WM formulated :
>>>>> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 17:57:15 UTC+2:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Endsegments don't shrink.
>>>>>
>>>>> They do, compared to their predecessors:
>>>>> ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
>>>> No, they don't. They are all the same size.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless they do
>>> ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
>>> ∀k ∈ ℕ: |E(k+1)| = |E(k)| - 1.
>> Use Cardinal Arithmetic when working with infinite cardinalities.
>
> I showed that they are nonsense.
>
> Regards, WM

no, you showed that you are nonsense.

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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by: sergi o - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:55 UTC

On 6/21/2022 12:57 PM, Berry Nagumo wrote:
> sergi o wrote:
>
>>> They do ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k} ∀k ∈ ℕ: |E(k+1)| = |E(k)| - 1.
>>> Regards, WM
>>
>> Wrong. |E(k+1)| = aleph_0
>
> morone,
>
> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴
> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴
> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🔴
> 🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴
> 🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴
> 🔴🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴
> 🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴
> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴
> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴
> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴
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> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴
>

Ya!

ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
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ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸŒ•ðŸŒ•ðŸ”´ðŸ”´
ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t8tbhc$1hqf$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergi o)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 16:00:27 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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by: sergi o - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:00 UTC

On 6/21/2022 3:04 PM, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2022 um 15:38:51 UTC+2:
>> On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 8:53:20 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>> William schrieb am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2022 um 04:00:33 UTC+2:
>>>> On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 5:14:12 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:

>>>> So what? If you use a method that cannot get to the bijection, the method will not get to the bijection.
>>> But I use a method that is "proved" to be a bijection.
>> Nope. The method you use does not get to the bijection designed by Cantor. Every step only produces part of the bijection. You have not defined a state where all steps are done.
>>

> Neither has Cantor. All he does is this:
> k = (m + n - 1)(m + n - 2)/2 + m
> No last k, no all k's.
> 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, 2/4, 3/3, 4/2, 5/1, 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2, 6/1, ... No last term, no all terms.

You should follow the Master, instead of incorrectly criticizing him.

> Regards, WM

Cantor re-indexing the matrix of rationals, into a one to one mapping with the natural numbers to all of the fractions. A Winner.

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t8tbkq$1hqf$2@gioia.aioe.org>

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Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 16:02:18 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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by: sergi o - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 21:02 UTC

On 6/21/2022 3:12 PM, WM wrote:
> Fritz Feldhase schrieb am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2022 um 22:10:29 UTC+2:
>> On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 10:04:51 PM UTC+2, WM wrote:
>>
>>> No last k, no all k's.
>>
>> Consider the sequence of all natural numbers:
>>
>> (1, 2, 3, ...)
>>
>> No last natural number in this sequence, hence not all natural number in this sequence
>
> Hence never all indices issued.

you stopped at k again! this time it k = 3

go ahead and stay in first grade.

>
> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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by: Tomi Masuko - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 22:00 UTC

sergi o wrote:

>> morone,
>>
>> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴
>> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴
>> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🔴
>> 🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴
>> 🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴
>> 🔴🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴
>> 🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴
>> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴
>> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴
>> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴
>> 🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴
>> 🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴
>> 🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴🔴🌕🌕🌕🔴🔴🌕🌕🔴🔴
>> 🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴🔴
>>
> Ya!ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´ðŸ”´

still no, undrestanding tensors?? Then try 46:06 or 1:08:24, you stinking
capitalist sons of the bitches. You are wankers, not humans. Wankers don't
undrestand tensors, in mathematics.

Ion Paladi - Concert 'Dorul Basarabiei' 24 martie 2013 Chișinău, Palatul
Național 'N.Sulac' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvEpLUllXh4?t=46m06s

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t8tfom$e19$1@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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by: FromTheRafters - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 22:12 UTC

WM formulated the question :
> FromTheRafters schrieb am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2022 um 15:17:28 UTC+2:
>> WM formulated on Tuesday :
>>> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 23:10:30 UTC+2:
>>>> It happens that WM formulated :
>>>>> FromTheRafters schrieb am Montag, 20. Juni 2022 um 17:57:15 UTC+2:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Endsegments don't shrink.
>>>>>
>>>>> They do, compared to their predecessors:
>>>>> ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
>>>> No, they don't. They are all the same size.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless they do
>>> ∀k ∈ ℕ: E(k+1) = E(k) \ {k}
>>> ∀k ∈ ℕ: |E(k+1)| = |E(k)| - 1.
>> Use Cardinal Arithmetic when working with infinite cardinalities.
>
> I showed that they are nonsense.

You're dreaming.

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Tue, 21 Jun 2022 23:45 UTC

On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 5:04:51 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
use a method that is "proved" to be a bijection.
> > Nope. The method you use does not get to the bijection designed by Cantor. Every step only produces part of the bijection. You have not defined a state where all steps are done.
> >
> Neither has Cantor. All he does is this:
> k = (m + n - 1)(m + n - 2)/2 + m

E.g. gives an algorithm relating k and (m,n). Note that this algorithm works for any k. A matrix at any step represents only part of this algorithm. Given any k, you can find a matrix, M_k, which will work for k. There is no single matrix that works for any k.

--
William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
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by: zelos...@gmail.com - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 11:07 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 13:47 UTC

William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 01:45:38 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 5:04:51 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> use a method that is "proved" to be a bijection.
> > > Nope. The method you use does not get to the bijection designed by Cantor. Every step only produces part of the bijection. You have not defined a state where all steps are done.
> > >
> > Neither has Cantor. All he does is this:
> > k = (m + n - 1)(m + n - 2)/2 + m
> E.g. gives an algorithm relating k and (m,n). Note that this algorithm works for any k.

Just like mine. The reason is that I plagiated Cantor's algorithm.

> A matrix at any step represents only part of this algorithm.

My infinite sequence of matrices is constructed according to k = (m + n - 1)(m + n - 2)/2 + m, just like Cantor's sequence 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, ... At any step it represents only part of this algorithm.

> Given any k, you can find a matrix, M_k, which will work for k. There is no single matrix that works for any k.

There is the infinite sequence of matrices, just like Cantor's infinite sequence. There is no last term just like in Cantor's sequence. Only all terms are given. One and the same algorithm is the basis for Cantor's and for my sequence. Cantor's sequence is plagiated by my matrices. It is the same item, only a slightly different language, showing that he fails.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 14:54 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 15:33 UTC

William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 16:54:50 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:47:43 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> , ... At any step it represents only part of this algorithm.
> > > Given any k, you can find a matrix, M_k, which will work for k. There is no single matrix that works for any k.
> > There is the infinite sequence of matrices, just like Cantor's infinite sequence. There is no last term
> Note that you only get a contradiction at the "last term", a single matrix that works for any k.

Not at all! I show that all terms which are existing (may there be a last term or no last term) fail to satisfy Cantor's expectation.

> No last term, no contradiction.

No last term, no proof of completeness. But as I said above, my argument need not and does not consider special terms. The indexes X will never cover the whole matrix.

XOOO...
XOOO...
XOOO...
XOOO...
....

XXOO...
OOOO...
XOOO...
XOOO...
....

XXOO...
XOOO...
OOOO...
XOOO...
....

And here never means never. Never Cantor's expectation can be satisfied.

You should be glad that nonsense like same number of primes as of algebraics could be abolished.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 11:51:41 -0400
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by: FromTheRafters - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 15:51 UTC

WM brought next idea :
> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 16:54:50 UTC+2:
>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:47:43 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>> , ... At any step it represents only part of this algorithm.
>>>> Given any k, you can find a matrix, M_k, which will work for k. There is
>>>> no single matrix that works for any k.
>>> There is the infinite sequence of matrices, just like Cantor's infinite
>>> sequence. There is no last term
>> Note that you only get a contradiction at the "last term", a single matrix
>> that works for any k.
>
> Not at all! I show that all terms which are existing (may there be a last
> term or no last term) fail to satisfy Cantor's expectation.
>
>> No last term, no contradiction.
>
> No last term, no proof of completeness. But as I said above, my argument need
> not and does not consider special terms. The indexes X will never cover the
> whole matrix.
>
> XOOO...
> XOOO...
> XOOO...
> XOOO...
> ...
>
> XXOO...
> OOOO...
> XOOO...
> XOOO...
> ...
>
> XXOO...
> XOOO...
> OOOO...
> XOOO...
> ...
>
> And here never means never. Never Cantor's expectation can be satisfied.
>
> You should be glad that nonsense like same number of primes as of algebraics
> could be abolished.

Good that we can retain the sets being the same size then.

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
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by: William - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 16:15 UTC

On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 12:33:46 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 16:54:50 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:47:43 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > , ... At any step it represents only part of this algorithm.
> > > > Given any k, you can find a matrix, M_k, which will work for k. There is no single matrix that works for any k.
> > > There is the infinite sequence of matrices, just like Cantor's infinite sequence. There is no last term
> > Note that you only get a contradiction at the "last term", a single matrix that works for any k.
> Not at all! I show that all terms which are existing (may there be a last term or no last term) fail to satisfy Cantor's expectation

Indeed, no term is the bijection. There is no single term which works for all k. Your method does not produce a single matrix which represents the bijection.

> > No last term, no contradiction.
> No last term, no proof of completeness

Nope. The fact that your method does not prove the existence of the bijection, does not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.

--
William Hughes

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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by: WM - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 20:15 UTC

William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 18:15:11 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 12:33:46 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 16:54:50 UTC+2:
> > > On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:47:43 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > , ... At any step it represents only part of this algorithm.
> > > > > Given any k, you can find a matrix, M_k, which will work for k. There is no single matrix that works for any k.
> > > > There is the infinite sequence of matrices, just like Cantor's infinite sequence. There is no last term
> > > Note that you only get a contradiction at the "last term", a single matrix that works for any k.
> > Not at all! I show that all terms which are existing (may there be a last term or no last term) fail to satisfy Cantor's expectation
> Indeed, no term is the bijection. There is no single term which works for all k. Your method does not produce a single matrix which represents the bijection.
> > > No last term, no contradiction.
> > No last term, no proof of completeness
> Nope. The fact that your method does not prove the existence of the bijection

Nice that you recognize that finally!

>, does not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.

My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.

Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: franz.fr...@gmail.com (Fritz Feldhase)
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by: Fritz Feldhase - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 20:24 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

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Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
From: wpihug...@gmail.com (William)
Injection-Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 21:12:48 +0000
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by: William - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 21:12 UTC

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t903b4$1jnc$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=104024&group=sci.math#104024

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergi o)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 16:58:59 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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by: sergi o - Wed, 22 Jun 2022 21:58 UTC

On 6/22/2022 3:15 PM, WM wrote:
> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 18:15:11 UTC+2:
>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 12:33:46 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 16:54:50 UTC+2:
>>>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:47:43 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>> , ... At any step it represents only part of this algorithm.
>>>>>> Given any k, you can find a matrix, M_k, which will work for k. There is no single matrix that works for any k.
>>>>> There is the infinite sequence of matrices, just like Cantor's infinite sequence. There is no last term
>>>> Note that you only get a contradiction at the "last term", a single matrix that works for any k.
>>> Not at all! I show that all terms which are existing (may there be a last term or no last term) fail to satisfy Cantor's expectation
>> Indeed, no term is the bijection. There is no single term which works for all k. Your method does not produce a single matrix which represents the bijection.
>>>> No last term, no contradiction.
>>> No last term, no proof of completeness
>> Nope. The fact that your method does not prove the existence of the bijection
>
> Nice that you recognize that finally!
>
>> , does not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
>
> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.

no, you got it wrong. Your Swaparoofest n-card Monte got no where at all.

Once it has been proved in Math, you cannot un-prove it, and Cantor proved it.

>
> Regards, WM

Re: Natural numbers and vases

<t91bp4$qgq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nom...@afraid.org (FromTheRafters)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Natural numbers and vases
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 05:29:02 -0400
Organization: Peripheral Visions
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by: FromTheRafters - Thu, 23 Jun 2022 09:29 UTC

WM presented the following explanation :
> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 18:15:11 UTC+2:
>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 12:33:46 PM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>> William schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2022 um 16:54:50 UTC+2:
>>>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:47:43 AM UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>> , ... At any step it represents only part of this algorithm.
>>>>>> Given any k, you can find a matrix, M_k, which will work for k. There is
>>>>>> no single matrix that works for any k.
>>>>> There is the infinite sequence of matrices, just like Cantor's infinite
>>>>> sequence. There is no last term
>>>> Note that you only get a contradiction at the "last term", a single matrix
>>>> that works for any k.
>>> Not at all! I show that all terms which are existing (may there be a last
>>> term or no last term) fail to satisfy Cantor's expectation Indeed, no term
>>> is the bijection. There is no single term which works for all k. Your
>>> method does not produce a single matrix which represents the bijection.
>>>> No last term, no contradiction.
>>> No last term, no proof of completeness
>> Nope. The fact that your method does not prove the existence of the
>> bijection
>
> Nice that you recognize that finally!
>
>> , does not mean the bijection (a set) does not exist.
>
> My argument proves the not existence of the most famous bijection.

No, it doesn't. It only proves your misunderstandings.

Subject	Author
Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Ross A. Finlayson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	FromTheRafters
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chet Hirasi
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chet Hirasi
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	FredJeffries
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	FromTheRafters
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Gus Gassmann
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	William
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	zelos...@gmail.com
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	WM
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Jim Burns
Re: Natural numbers and vases	sergio
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Ross A. Finlayson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Fritz Feldhase
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Chris M. Thomasson
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Mostowski Collapse
Re: Natural numbers and vases	Socratis T.n.p.