whit3rd wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>
>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
>>> to speak of.
>
>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>
> That fails any kind of reality check.
>
>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>
> ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
> continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
> but ought not command our respect either.
>
> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop. <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>

Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing
him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:31:05 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>> >On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> >> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>> >
>> >Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>> >example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
>> >Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
>> >to speak of.
>
>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>
>That fails any kind of reality check.

Great book:

https://www.amazon.com/Band-Played-Politics-Epidemic-20th-Anniversary/dp/0312374631/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MY39G2KTGHC2&keywords=and+the+band+played+on&qid=1657825484&s=books&sprefix=and+the%2Cstripbooks%2C114&sr=1-1

Randy wrote that as he was dying of AIDS.

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:

>> My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
>> laser beam on certain patient's eyes.
>>
>> One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
>> for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
>> stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.
>
> After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
> of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
> part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
> some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
> later.
>
> I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
> to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
> helps.
>
> I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
> other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.
>
> So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific
distance from the laser, so the beam doesn't damage tissue on the way to
that point?

Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of
interest?

Neat stuff.

On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>>> whit3rd
>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>
>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
>>>> were all infants.
>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
>>>> involvement
>>>> to speak of.
>>
>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>
>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>
>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
>>> covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>
>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
>> rumors can be found, or created,
>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>
>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>
>
> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing
> him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
> dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
> starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs

I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
*all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
people in his working environment are no better.
I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

On 15/7/22 21:34, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 7:28:58 PM UTC+10, Edward Hernandez Smells Funny wrote:
>> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>
>>> Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:
>>>> My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
>>>> laser beam on certain patient's eyes.
>>>>
>>>> One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
>>>> for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
>>>> stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.
>>>
>>> After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
>>> of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
>>> part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
>>> some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
>>> later.
>>>
>>> I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
>>> to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
>>> helps.
>>>
>>> I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
>>> other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.
>>>
>>> So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.
>>
>> Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific
>> distance from the laser, so the beam doesn't damage tissue on the way to
>> that point?
>
> It could be a focussing lens, but the aqueous and vitreous humors are transparent (as they have to be for the eye to work) so not a lot of the laser energy would get deposited there anyway.
>
>> Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of interest?
>
> They may select the lasing medium (and any frequency multiplication that they may go in for) with a view to getting an effective frequency at the targetted point, but tweaking a laser frequency isn't all that easy
>
>> Neat stuff.
>
> Neater than it used to be.
>
The sign on our eye surgeons laser room mentions a fixed frequency in
its warning.

--
Marty

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
wrote:

>On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>>>> whit3rd
>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
>>>>> were all infants.
>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
>>>>> involvement
>>>>> to speak of.
>>>
>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>
>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>
>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
>>>> covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>
>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
>>> rumors can be found, or created,
>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>
>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>
>>
>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing
>> him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
>> dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
>> starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
>I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
>Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
>In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>*all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>people in his working environment are no better.
>I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
history.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 09:28:52 -0000 (UTC), Edward Hernandez Smells
Funny <view@post.header> wrote:

>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:
>
>>> My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
>>> laser beam on certain patient's eyes.
>>>
>>> One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
>>> for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
>>> stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.
>>
>> After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
>> of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
>> part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
>> some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
>> later.
>>
>> I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
>> to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
>> helps.
>>
>> I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
>> other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.
>>
>> So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.
>
>Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific
>distance from the laser, so the beam doesn't damage tissue on the way to
>that point?
>
>Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of
>interest?
>
>Neat stuff.

Your nym is dumb and repulsive.

Do you have a name?

On 7/15/2022 16:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>>>>> whit3rd
>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
>>>>>> were all infants.
>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
>>>>>> involvement
>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>
>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>
>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>
>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
>>>>> covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>
>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
>>>> rumors can be found, or created,
>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>
>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing
>>> him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
>>> dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
>>> starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>
>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>> people in his working environment are no better.
>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>
> I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
> be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
> country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
> history.
>

Unfortunately you are correct. No such thing as a "normal prosperous
country" in sight. It appears that even the younger generations, those
who were brought up in post soviet times has not evolved much. The
regularity they put some psychopath in the Kremlin with speaks for
itself.

What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment
sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
propaganda nonsense.
Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the
civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
would like to.
But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
condition.

fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 13.27.16 UTC+2 skrev Dimiter Popoff:
> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> > whit3rd wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> >>> whit3rd
> >>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
> >>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
> >>>>
> >>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
> >>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
> >>>> were all infants.
> >>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
> >>>> involvement
> >>>> to speak of.
> >>
> >>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
> >>
> >> That fails any kind of reality check.
> >>
> >>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
> >>> covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
> >>
> >> ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for
> >> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
> >> continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy
> >> rumors can be found, or created,
> >> but ought not command our respect either.
> >>
> >> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
> >> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
> >>
> >
> > Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing
> > him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
> > dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
> > starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Phil Hobbs
> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
> people in his working environment are no better.
> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

seems like they have just convinced themselves that anything the western media, "establishment", and most people
believe must be something the "Illuminati" has planted so it must be wrong, and the opposite how ever silly is it must be correct

On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:20:24 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
wrote:

>On 7/15/2022 16:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>>>>>> whit3rd
>>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
>>>>>>> were all infants.
>>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
>>>>>>> involvement
>>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>>
>>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
>>>>>> covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>>
>>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
>>>>> rumors can be found, or created,
>>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>>
>>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing
>>>> him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
>>>> dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
>>>> starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>>> people in his working environment are no better.
>>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>>
>> I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
>> be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
>> country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
>> history.
>>
>
>Unfortunately you are correct. No such thing as a "normal prosperous
>country" in sight. It appears that even the younger generations, those
>who were brought up in post soviet times has not evolved much. The
>regularity they put some psychopath in the Kremlin with speaks for
>itself.
>
>What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment
>sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
>propaganda nonsense.

In the times before WWII it was obvious that the USSR was run by
murderous psychopaths, but there were lots of people in England and
the US who idolized the workers paradise.

>Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
>inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the
>civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
>who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
>would like to.
>But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
>nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
>condition.

Yes. When theory is confounded by reality, some people stick with
theory.

I made two good friends when I was in the USSR, and both came to live
with me here for a year or so. Sergei, the native Russian, never
learned English and didn't like America and went back to Moscow. Nick,
a Ukranian, loved the US and stayed and imported his family. He's an
IT consultant in Sacramento.

Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>>>> whit3rd
>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
>>>>> were all infants.
>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
>>>>> involvement
>>>>> to speak of.
>>>
>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>
>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>
>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
>>>> covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>
>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
>>> rumors can be found, or created,
>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>
>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>
>>
>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are
>> going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
>> famous for. ;)

>
> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
> people in his working environment are no better.
> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

He does it about other stuff too. Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 7/15/2022 16:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
>> wrote:
<snip>
>> I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
>> be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
>> country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
>> history.
>>
>
> Unfortunately you are correct. No such thing as a "normal prosperous
> country" in sight. It appears that even the younger generations, those
> who were brought up in post soviet times has not evolved much. The
> regularity they put some psychopath in the Kremlin with speaks for
> itself.
>
> What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment
> sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
> propaganda nonsense.
> Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
> inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the
> civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
> who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
> would like to.
> But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
> nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
> condition.

I have a Russian history book whose preface begins, "It is not true that
people get the government they deserve, and nowhere is it more
grotesquely false than in Russia."

After the local Slavs were taken over by Vikings, there was a long
period of warlordism and foreign domination. After that, the Russians
endured two centuries of Mongol rule, five centuries of serfdom that
gradually became more and more crushing, a brief interlude of
comparative freedom, then three quarters of a century of Bolshevism, two
catastrophic wars, deliberately imposed starvation on a huge scale, the
breakup of empire and the looting of the economy by oligarchs. Then
they've had Putin.

It's really no wonder that they're both crazy and pathologically
suspicious--it's the only rational response. :(

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:31:05 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>
>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
>>>> to speak of.
>>
>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>
>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>
> Great book:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Band-Played-Politics-Epidemic-20th-Anniversary/dp/0312374631/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MY39G2KTGHC2&keywords=and+the+band+played+on&qid=1657825484&s=books&sprefix=and+the%2Cstripbooks%2C114&sr=1-1
>
> Randy wrote that as he was dying of AIDS.
>
That was Fauci too.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>>>>> whit3rd
>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
>>>>>> were all infants.
>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
>>>>>> involvement
>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>
>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>
>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>
>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
>>>>> covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>
>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
>>>> rumors can be found, or created,
>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>
>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are
>>> going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
>>> famous for. ;)
>
>>
>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>> people in his working environment are no better.
>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>
> He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
> well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
> on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>

I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>>>>>> whit3rd
>>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
>>>>>>> were all infants.
>>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
>>>>>>> involvement
>>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>>
>>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>>
>>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
>>>>> rumors can be found, or created,
>>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>>
>>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are
>>>> going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
>>>> famous for. ;)
>>
>>>
>>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>>> people in his working environment are no better.
>>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>>
>> He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
>> well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
>> on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.

>
> I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
<https://theeasternborder.lv>). One of his regular segments is
translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin, which
is very much along the lines you mention.

I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it. (FWIW I think that
enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border is geopolitical
insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin on my part. Once
a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 20.44.33 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> > On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> >>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >>>> whit3rd wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> >>>>>> whit3rd
> >>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
> >>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
> >>>>>>> were all infants.
> >>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
> >>>>>>> involvement
> >>>>>>> to speak of.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
> >>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for
> >>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
> >>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy
> >>>>> rumors can be found, or created,
> >>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
> >>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try
> >>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
> >>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are
> >>>> going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
> >>>> famous for. ;)
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
> >>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
> >>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
> >>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
> >>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
> >>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
> >>> people in his working environment are no better.
> >>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
> >>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
> >>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
> >>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
> >>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
> >>
> >> He does it about other stuff too. Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
> >> well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
> >> on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.
>
> >
> > I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
> > And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
> I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
> <https://theeasternborder.lv>). One of his regular segments is
> translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin, which
> is very much along the lines you mention.
>
> I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it. (FWIW I think that
> enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border is geopolitical
> insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin on my part. Once
> a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

Ukraine was no/is where near fulfilling the requirements to join NATO
So Putin can't use that as an excuse

On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>> On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
>>>>>>> happened whit3rd
>>>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
>>>>>>>> were all infants.
>>>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no
>>>>>>>> US involvement
>>>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
>>>>>> conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
>>>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that
>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland
>>>>> is famous for. ;)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
>>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
>>>> nonsense.
>>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
>>>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>>>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>>>
>>> He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor
>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
>>> on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.
>
>>
>> I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
>
> I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
> <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
> translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin, which
> is very much along the lines you mention.
>
> I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.

Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.

>  (FWIW I think that
> enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border is geopolitical
> insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin on my part.  Once
> a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
be swallowed. It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets
swallowed without giving a fight.

On 2022-07-15, Edward Hernandez Smells Funny <view@post.header> wrote:
> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:
>
>>> My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
>>> laser beam on certain patient's eyes.
>>>
>>> One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
>>> for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
>>> stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.
>>
>> After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
>> of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
>> part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
>> some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
>> later.
>>
>> I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
>> to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
>> helps.
>>
>> I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
>> other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.
>>
>> So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.
>
> Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific
> distance from the laser, so the beam doesn't damage tissue on the way to
> that point?

they use a convex lens to concentrate the laser, in much the same way
that one can be used to concentrate sunlight. So this only works through
transparent tissue,

--
Jasen.

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 20.44.33 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>> On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>>>>>>>> whit3rd
>>>>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
>>>>>>>>> were all infants.
>>>>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
>>>>>>>>> involvement
>>>>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for
>>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy
>>>>>>> rumors can be found, or created,
>>>>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try
>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are
>>>>>> going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
>>>>>> famous for. ;)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
>>>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
>>>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
>>>>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>>>>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>>>>
>>>> He does it about other stuff too. Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
>>>> well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
>>>> on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.
>>
>>>
>>> I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
>> I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
>> <https://theeasternborder.lv>). One of his regular segments is
>> translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin, which
>> is very much along the lines you mention.
>>
>> I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it. (FWIW I think that
>> enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border is geopolitical
>> insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin on my part. Once
>> a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)
>
> Ukraine was no/is where near fulfilling the requirements to join NATO
> So Putin can't use that as an excuse
>

Finland?

(Not even counting the coup the Obama swamp launched in Ukraine in 2014.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>> On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
>>>>>>>> happened whit3rd
>>>>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when
>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
>>>>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no
>>>>>>>>> US involvement
>>>>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
>>>>>>> conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
>>>>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that
>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
>>>>>> Holland is famous for. ;)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with
>>>>> the
>>>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
>>>>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>>>>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>>>>
>>>> He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor
>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
>>>> reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.
>>
>>>
>>> I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
>>
>> I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
>> <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
>> translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
>> which is very much along the lines you mention.
>>
>> I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.
>
> Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
> on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.
>
>>   (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border
>> is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin
>> on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)
>
> Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
> be swallowed.

You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)

> It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
> it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets
> swallowed without giving a fight.

Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
of the commies were overseas.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
<9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92-6f3d-0fc0f4c3d538@electrooptical.net>:

>Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>> On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>> On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
>>>>>>>>> happened whit3rd
>>>>>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when
>>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
>>>>>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no
>>>>>>>>>> US involvement
>>>>>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
>>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>>>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
>>>>>>>> conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
>>>>>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>>>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
>>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that
>>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
>>>>>>> Holland is famous for. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
>>>>>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>>>>>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>>>>>
>>>>> He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor
>>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
>>>>> reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
>>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
>>>
>>> I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
>>> <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
>>> translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
>>> which is very much along the lines you mention.
>>>
>>> I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.
>>
>> Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
>> on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.
>>
>>>   (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border
>>> is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin
>>> on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)
>>
>> Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
>> be swallowed.
>
>You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)
>
>> It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
>> it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets
>> swallowed without giving a fight.
>
>Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
>of the commies were overseas.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

ByeThen wants a common enemy to destract from his total failure
You puppet, you dance,

Simple Simon says:
clap your hands ...
sort of song comes to mind.

On 7/17/2022 16:33, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>> On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>> On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
>>>>>>>>> happened whit3rd
>>>>>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when
>>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
>>>>>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no
>>>>>>>>>> US involvement
>>>>>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
>>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci,
>>>>>>>> for instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>>>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
>>>>>>>> conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
>>>>>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>>>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
>>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that
>>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
>>>>>>> Holland is famous for. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize
>>>>>> with the
>>>>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an
>>>>>> engineer,
>>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a
>>>>>> fake,
>>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
>>>>>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>>>>>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>>>>>
>>>>> He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor
>>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
>>>>> reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken
>>>> seriously.
>>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
>>>
>>> I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
>>> <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
>>> translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
>>> which is very much along the lines you mention.
>>>
>>> I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.
>>
>> Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
>> on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.
>>
>>>   (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border
>>> is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of
>>> Putin on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)
>>
>> Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
>> be swallowed.
>
> You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)

Living under a more direct threat certainly makes you more open-eyed
about the world's vulnerabilities, of course.

>
>> It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
>> it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets
>> swallowed without giving a fight.
>
> Yup.  One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
> of the commies were overseas.

Today there are really no "commies", those who identify as such are
just hypocrites. The real danger comes from the KGB mafia, which has
spread its tentacles worldwide. The Chinese are following closely.

I can sympathize with your lost feeling of having all (well, most)
the truly criminal statesmen abroad but for me that time meant I had
to live under them... (back then I "defected" because of this).

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 9:45:25 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
> googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

Yeah, we Americans figured McCarthy was excessive, long
before Jan did. He has been an historic example for us to avoid.
So was Stalin, even for his native Russia.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:35:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs
><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
><9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92-6f3d-0fc0f4c3d538@electrooptical.net>:
>
>>Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>> On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>> On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
>>>>>>>>>> happened whit3rd
>>>>>>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when
>>>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
>>>>>>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no
>>>>>>>>>>> US involvement
>>>>>>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
>>>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>>>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>>>>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
>>>>>>>>> conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
>>>>>>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>>>>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
>>>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>>>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that
>>>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
>>>>>>>> Holland is famous for. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
>>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>>>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>>>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>>>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>>>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
>>>>>>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>>>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>>>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>>>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>>>>>>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor
>>>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
>>>>>> reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
>>>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
>>>>
>>>> I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
>>>> <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
>>>> translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
>>>> which is very much along the lines you mention.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.
>>>
>>> Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
>>> on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.
>>>
>>>>   (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border
>>>> is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin
>>>> on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)
>>>
>>> Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
>>> be swallowed.
>>
>>You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)
>>
>>> It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
>>> it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets
>>> swallowed without giving a fight.
>>
>>Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
>>of the commies were overseas.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Phil Hobbs
>
>Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
>googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

But there were commies everywhere.

On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jul 2022 08:34:17 -0700) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<oavadhljphjvu85lqdddj7pk007tel6fh9@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:35:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs
>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
>><9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92-6f3d-0fc0f4c3d538@electrooptical.net>:
>>
>>>Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>> On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
>>>>>>>>>>> happened whit3rd
>>>>>>>>>>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try google for US regime change since WW2
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
>>>>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when
>>>>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no
>>>>>>>>>>>> US involvement
>>>>>>>>>>>> to speak of.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That fails any kind of reality check.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
>>>>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
>>>>>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
>>>>>>>>>> continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
>>>>>>>>>> conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
>>>>>>>>>> but ought not command our respect either.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
>>>>>>>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
>>>>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
>>>>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that
>>>>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
>>>>>>>>> Holland is famous for. ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
>>>>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>>>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
>>>>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
>>>>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
>>>>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
>>>>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
>>>>>>>> I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
>>>>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
>>>>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
>>>>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
>>>>>>>> literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor
>>>>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
>>>>>>> reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
>>>>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
>>>>>
>>>>> I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
>>>>> <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
>>>>> translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
>>>>> which is very much along the lines you mention.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.
>>>>
>>>> Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
>>>> on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.
>>>>
>>>>>   (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border
>>>>> is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin
>>>>> on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)
>>>>
>>>> Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
>>>> be swallowed.
>>>
>>>You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)
>>>
>>>> It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
>>>> it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets
>>>> swallowed without giving a fight.
>>>
>>>Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
>>>of the commies were overseas.
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>Phil Hobbs
>>
>>Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
>>googgle wikipedia mccarthysism
>
>But there were commies everywhere.

Well, "beauty is in the beholders eye" (is the expression), so is evil I think.
Are not all commies united in the Demoncrates party these days?
Oh wait ...
probably a bit more complicatiantiated than that
There was an science topic in sci.daily.com about the making an enemy and that making
people more happy or something (header all the way down that page)
I personally believe more in cooperation, make peace with Russia, China, Iran,
better for business, kills less people, sentence war criminals / mass murderers like Dr Faulty
and ByeThen to: well what have you these days...
Is the last chance for the US, drop the support for that Military Industrial Complex and it political salesmen.
Putin is just selling gas US tries to destroy the competition by selling stuff they got using fracking
a system that poisons their own people,
Bit of a big bully US is... it keeps asking for something, was reading Iran now enriched enough plutonium
to make a bomb...
US people will have to rise up against that US weapon industry, you are outnumbered many times.
US mafia