John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
news:v65sihlfk6a1s2u6ukok7aft19d8kfsqln@4ax.com:

>
> Which they are actively working to destroy.

You are actively trying to be even more stupid than the current group
leader of utter stupidity, Jan Pan. And you are succeeding, putz.

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>
>https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

Yet another study/guess:

https://studyfinds.org/electric-cars-charged-at-night-grid-unstable/

People need to charge when the sun shines. Good luck, Wisconsin.

On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 08:09:31 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
....
>
> https://studyfinds.org/electric-cars-charged-at-night-grid-unstable/
>
> People need to charge when the sun shines. Good luck, Wisconsin.

Wisconsin averages over four hours of sun per day for fixed tilt solar panels.

Over three hours per day in winter.

https://www.turbinegenerator.org/solar/wisconsin/

The UK and Germany both have significant amounts of solar generation and they are much further north than Wisconsin and don't have sunny weather to brag about.

kw

On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 15:19:25 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
<keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 08:09:31 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>...
>>
>> https://studyfinds.org/electric-cars-charged-at-night-grid-unstable/
>>
>> People need to charge when the sun shines. Good luck, Wisconsin.
>
>Wisconsin averages over four hours of sun per day for fixed tilt solar panels.
>
>Over three hours per day in winter.
>
>https://www.turbinegenerator.org/solar/wisconsin/
>
>The UK and Germany both have significant amounts of solar generation and they are much further north than Wisconsin and don't have sunny weather to brag about.
>
>kw

They don't have much electricity either.

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 12:46:20 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 5:09:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:58:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 2:16:00 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 8:55:20 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > > > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV's get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And California is working on making the power grid unreliable too.
> > > > >
> > > > > The US enthusiasm for privatising natural monopolies is an ideology driven idiocy. The ENRON scandal should have made that clear, but the Gnatguy component in the US electorate is vocal and unwilling to notice evidence that they don't like.
> > > >
> > > > Bill conveniently ignores that the vast majority of car parking spots DO NOT have any EV charging whatsoever.
> > >
> > > Not yet. Those used by EV car owners do tend to get them.
> >
> > Then WHEN!
> Silly question. Pick as specific parking spot and it might be be worth asking, but only for that parking spot.
>
> > You libtards say it will just materialize out of thin air, pretty much like Joe Biden.
>
> Cite?
> > The situation now is DIRE reading reports from people trying to survive with the ill-conceived monsters.
> Most of the EV drivers I've run into seem happy with their vehicles.
> > > >And people living in apartments MUST rely on public EV charging stations.
>
> > > I live in an apartment, and at our last owner's meeting we did discuss how we were going to provide charging for EV's parked in the basement.
> > >
> > > We do need smart chargers so the cost of the power fed into the car ends up getting paid for by the car's owner. Some of the speaker wanted the information passed back over wifi links, which is nuts when we've have fast data links over mains wiring for decades now.
> >
> > Hey Bozo, that is PURE GIBBERISH! At best, you have a fairy tale, pie in the sky, nightmare dream of the future.
>
> You don't understand it, but that makes you an idiot. The text isn't any kind of gibberish even if claiming that it is makes you feel better about your cognitive defect.
> > > >This is a BIG problem with relatively few EVs - imagine the problem when ALL of the cars are EVs.
> What is supposed to be a "big problem". Do tell.

Are you SERIOUS, Bozo? The BIG PROBLEM is that you have MILLIONS of EVs trying to use THOUSANDS of charging stations SIMULATEOUSLY, which means waiting times of not HOURS, but DAYS!

> > > By then the problem, such as it is, will have been solved.
> >
> > More PIE IN THE SKY!
> The solution is obvious and perfectly practical, even if you can't understand the solution.

Leaving the "solution" to libtards like you means that NOTHING HAPPENS.

> > > > Note that Bill identifies a fictitious person call "Gnatguy" who has NEVER posted to SED.
> > >
> > > If only he were fictitious. He's depressingly real, and easily identifiable. He uses the non-name Bozo quite a lot.
> >
> > NO! No one has EVER posted on SED with that moniker!
> But a fly is very like a gnat. You'd prefer Flyguy to be parsed as "flying guy" as opposed to "filthy flying insect guy" but what you post fits the second interpretation rather better. "High on some controlled substance guy" could work too, but you'd have to be high whenever you posted to be as consistently irrational as you are.

Hardly, Bozo. You WOULD NOT get on ANY aircraft flown by a "gnat." You would DEMAND a licensed pilot such as myself.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 5:10:39 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:09:31 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
> > >
> > >https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> > Yet another study/guess:
> >
> > https://studyfinds.org/electric-cars-charged-at-night-grid-unstable/
> >
> > People need to charge when the sun shines. Good luck, Wisconsin.
> Not strictly true. Put in enough grid storage and people can charge their cars any time they like. Of course you lose roughly 15% of the energy you put into a battery, so it's going to end up costing 15% more to recharge car batteries from grid storage at night.

Hey Bozo, "Put in enough grid storage" means that the people in charge, like senile pervert Lyin' Biden, are actually on top of the problem and are ACTIVELY taking measures to make this happen - this is DECIDELY NOT THE CASE, as I have detailed over and OVER AGAIN! Everybody seems to be waiting for SOMEONE ELSE to solve the problem (like YOU, Bozo!).

>
> If Wisconsin went in for wind turbines, charging overnight would be less of problem, but John Larkin doesn't seem to know much about that renewable source of electric power.

And WTF happens WHEN the wind STOPS BLOWING, BOZO????
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 12:59:12 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 5:10:39 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:09:31 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> > > On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> > > <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
> > > >
> > > >https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> > > Yet another study/guess:
> > >
> > > https://studyfinds.org/electric-cars-charged-at-night-grid-unstable/
> > >
> > > People need to charge when the sun shines. Good luck, Wisconsin.
> > Not strictly true. Put in enough grid storage and people can charge their cars any time they like. Of course you lose roughly 15% of the energy you put into a battery, so it's going to end up costing 15% more to recharge car batteries from grid storage at night.
> Hey Bozo, "Put in enough grid storage" means that the people in charge, like senile pervert Lyin' Biden, are actually on top of the problem and are ACTIVELY taking measures to make this happen - this is DECIDELY NOT THE CASE, as I have detailed over and OVER AGAIN! Everybody seems to be waiting for SOMEONE ELSE to solve the problem (like YOU, Bozo!).
> >
> > If Wisconsin went in for wind turbines, charging overnight would be less of problem, but John Larkin doesn't seem to know much about that renewable source of electric power.
> And WTF happens WHEN the wind STOPS BLOWING, BOZO????

Who will Inherit the Wind?

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 24/09/2022 02:39, Ricky wrote:
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:25:30 AM UTC-4, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 23/09/2022 04:55, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>>>>
>>>> If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
>>>> car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.
>>>
>>> Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV's get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.
>> But that wasn't what the article was about. It was about the EV charging
>> experience during a 400 mile trip. I assume that sort of distance
>> wouldn't be particularly unusual in the USA or indeed Australia
>> (although it would be in the UK where I am).
>>
>> What would have happened if the driver hadn't been able to find a
>> charging point at Interstate 5 at Frazier Mountain Park Road? Even then,
>> he could only get 9 miles of charge after a 75 minute wait. If he ran
>> out of petrol with an IC car, he'd probably be able to get a lift to a
>> garage and buy a gallon can of petrol and take it back to his vehicle,
>> which would be enough to get him 30 miles or so to a garage and to fill
>> up. With an EV, the ironic option would be to get a service vehicle with
>> a pretty big IC-powered generator in the back, and wait an hour for it
>> to charge his EV's batteries sufficiently to get enough range to reach a
>> charging station. Or are there EV service vehicles with large batteries
>> in the back with which to charge the stranded EV vehicle's batteries?
>
> Why do people who don't drive electric vehicles, get so wigged out by articles about how hard it is to charge electric vehicles???
>
> What's the deal?
>
> Most people who post in this group are old enough, that even with the 2035 mandate of some states, will never need to drive a BEV if they don't want to.
>
> So why all the bellyaching? If you aren't going to drive a BEV, stop complaining about them. The industry and the charging infrastructure are not constants. They will grow and improve, so that, someday, if you live long enough to be forced to buy one, you may actually like driving a BEV... if you still have a license by then.

Who's complaining? I was quoting from an article written by someone who
had experienced an issue - or issues - while on a 400-mile EV drive. I
took one point and extrapolated to an entirely reasonable situation
where if he'd been 9 miles on he'd have run out of power. I didn't see
Ed Lee's post, but according to Bill Sloman, Ed had suffered a very
similar situation, and required a tow truck to get him out of it - at a
price.

I actually like the idea that battery-powered EVs will be the norm *one
day*. After all, I can't see an autonomous petrol-powered car being
developed, so by the time I'm too old to drive safely, I'll appreciate
getting in to a car and telling it the destination, rather than me
driving it there.

--

Jeff

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 12:46:20 AM UTC-7, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 24/09/2022 02:39, Ricky wrote:
> > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:25:30 AM UTC-4, Jeff Layman wrote:
> >> On 23/09/2022 04:55, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> >>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> >>>>
> >>>> If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
> >>>> car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.
> >>>
> >>> Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV's get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.
> >> But that wasn't what the article was about. It was about the EV charging
> >> experience during a 400 mile trip. I assume that sort of distance
> >> wouldn't be particularly unusual in the USA or indeed Australia
> >> (although it would be in the UK where I am).
> >>
> >> What would have happened if the driver hadn't been able to find a
> >> charging point at Interstate 5 at Frazier Mountain Park Road? Even then,
> >> he could only get 9 miles of charge after a 75 minute wait. If he ran
> >> out of petrol with an IC car, he'd probably be able to get a lift to a
> >> garage and buy a gallon can of petrol and take it back to his vehicle,
> >> which would be enough to get him 30 miles or so to a garage and to fill
> >> up. With an EV, the ironic option would be to get a service vehicle with
> >> a pretty big IC-powered generator in the back, and wait an hour for it
> >> to charge his EV's batteries sufficiently to get enough range to reach a
> >> charging station. Or are there EV service vehicles with large batteries
> >> in the back with which to charge the stranded EV vehicle's batteries?
> >
> > Why do people who don't drive electric vehicles, get so wigged out by articles about how hard it is to charge electric vehicles???
> >
> > What's the deal?
> >
> > Most people who post in this group are old enough, that even with the 2035 mandate of some states, will never need to drive a BEV if they don't want to.
> >
> > So why all the bellyaching? If you aren't going to drive a BEV, stop complaining about them. The industry and the charging infrastructure are not constants. They will grow and improve, so that, someday, if you live long enough to be forced to buy one, you may actually like driving a BEV... if you still have a license by then.
> Who's complaining? I was quoting from an article written by someone who
> had experienced an issue - or issues - while on a 400-mile EV drive. I
> took one point and extrapolated to an entirely reasonable situation
> where if he'd been 9 miles on he'd have run out of power. I didn't see
> Ed Lee's post, but according to Bill Sloman, Ed had suffered a very
> similar situation, and required a tow truck to get him out of it - at a
> price.

Yes, at the top of Frazer Mountain, nearby charger and/or tow trucks are 25 miles either way. Don't know about AAA, but Good Sam would charge $200 to $300 for 50 miles round-trip. They count driver round-trip, regardless of your actual towing distance.

I currently have 5 miles Good Sam coverage and 100 miles AAA. I will drop Good Sam when annual coverage is over.

On 26/09/2022 17:12, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 12:46:20 AM UTC-7, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 24/09/2022 02:39, Ricky wrote:
>>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:25:30 AM UTC-4, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>> On 23/09/2022 04:55, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>>>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
>>>>>> car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV's get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.
>>>> But that wasn't what the article was about. It was about the EV charging
>>>> experience during a 400 mile trip. I assume that sort of distance
>>>> wouldn't be particularly unusual in the USA or indeed Australia
>>>> (although it would be in the UK where I am).
>>>>
>>>> What would have happened if the driver hadn't been able to find a
>>>> charging point at Interstate 5 at Frazier Mountain Park Road? Even then,
>>>> he could only get 9 miles of charge after a 75 minute wait. If he ran
>>>> out of petrol with an IC car, he'd probably be able to get a lift to a
>>>> garage and buy a gallon can of petrol and take it back to his vehicle,
>>>> which would be enough to get him 30 miles or so to a garage and to fill
>>>> up. With an EV, the ironic option would be to get a service vehicle with
>>>> a pretty big IC-powered generator in the back, and wait an hour for it
>>>> to charge his EV's batteries sufficiently to get enough range to reach a
>>>> charging station. Or are there EV service vehicles with large batteries
>>>> in the back with which to charge the stranded EV vehicle's batteries?
>>>
>>> Why do people who don't drive electric vehicles, get so wigged out by articles about how hard it is to charge electric vehicles???
>>>
>>> What's the deal?
>>>
>>> Most people who post in this group are old enough, that even with the 2035 mandate of some states, will never need to drive a BEV if they don't want to.
>>>
>>> So why all the bellyaching? If you aren't going to drive a BEV, stop complaining about them. The industry and the charging infrastructure are not constants. They will grow and improve, so that, someday, if you live long enough to be forced to buy one, you may actually like driving a BEV... if you still have a license by then.
>> Who's complaining? I was quoting from an article written by someone who
>> had experienced an issue - or issues - while on a 400-mile EV drive. I
>> took one point and extrapolated to an entirely reasonable situation
>> where if he'd been 9 miles on he'd have run out of power. I didn't see
>> Ed Lee's post, but according to Bill Sloman, Ed had suffered a very
>> similar situation, and required a tow truck to get him out of it - at a
>> price.
>
> Yes, at the top of Frazer Mountain, nearby charger and/or tow trucks are 25 miles either way. Don't know about AAA, but Good Sam would charge $200 to $300 for 50 miles round-trip. They count driver round-trip, regardless of your actual towing distance.
>
> I currently have 5 miles Good Sam coverage and 100 miles AAA. I will drop Good Sam when annual coverage is over.

Thanks for the clarification.

As you were at the top. couldn't you have "freewheeled" down using
regenerative braking to charge the battery? ;-)

--

Jeff

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 10:14:00 AM UTC-7, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 26/09/2022 17:12, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 12:46:20 AM UTC-7, Jeff Layman wrote:
> >> On 24/09/2022 02:39, Ricky wrote:
> >>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:25:30 AM UTC-4, Jeff Layman wrote:
> >>>> On 23/09/2022 04:55, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >>>>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
> >>>>>> car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV's get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.
> >>>> But that wasn't what the article was about. It was about the EV charging
> >>>> experience during a 400 mile trip. I assume that sort of distance
> >>>> wouldn't be particularly unusual in the USA or indeed Australia
> >>>> (although it would be in the UK where I am).
> >>>>
> >>>> What would have happened if the driver hadn't been able to find a
> >>>> charging point at Interstate 5 at Frazier Mountain Park Road? Even then,
> >>>> he could only get 9 miles of charge after a 75 minute wait. If he ran
> >>>> out of petrol with an IC car, he'd probably be able to get a lift to a
> >>>> garage and buy a gallon can of petrol and take it back to his vehicle,
> >>>> which would be enough to get him 30 miles or so to a garage and to fill
> >>>> up. With an EV, the ironic option would be to get a service vehicle with
> >>>> a pretty big IC-powered generator in the back, and wait an hour for it
> >>>> to charge his EV's batteries sufficiently to get enough range to reach a
> >>>> charging station. Or are there EV service vehicles with large batteries
> >>>> in the back with which to charge the stranded EV vehicle's batteries?
> >>>
> >>> Why do people who don't drive electric vehicles, get so wigged out by articles about how hard it is to charge electric vehicles???
> >>>
> >>> What's the deal?
> >>>
> >>> Most people who post in this group are old enough, that even with the 2035 mandate of some states, will never need to drive a BEV if they don't want to.
> >>>
> >>> So why all the bellyaching? If you aren't going to drive a BEV, stop complaining about them. The industry and the charging infrastructure are not constants. They will grow and improve, so that, someday, if you live long enough to be forced to buy one, you may actually like driving a BEV... if you still have a license by then.
> >> Who's complaining? I was quoting from an article written by someone who
> >> had experienced an issue - or issues - while on a 400-mile EV drive. I
> >> took one point and extrapolated to an entirely reasonable situation
> >> where if he'd been 9 miles on he'd have run out of power. I didn't see
> >> Ed Lee's post, but according to Bill Sloman, Ed had suffered a very
> >> similar situation, and required a tow truck to get him out of it - at a
> >> price.
> >
> > Yes, at the top of Frazer Mountain, nearby charger and/or tow trucks are 25 miles either way. Don't know about AAA, but Good Sam would charge $200 to $300 for 50 miles round-trip. They count driver round-trip, regardless of your actual towing distance.
> >
> > I currently have 5 miles Good Sam coverage and 100 miles AAA. I will drop Good Sam when annual coverage is over.
> Thanks for the clarification.
>
> As you were at the top. couldn't you have "freewheeled" down using
> regenerative braking to charge the battery? ;-)

Yes, if you have at least 15 miles left. You can probably make it. I was going up the mountain from CA to NV. I was around 5 miles from the top and 12 miles from the bottom of the hill. I figured that i could not make it to the top; so, i turn around and return to the foot hill with still a few miles left.

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 3:46:20 AM UTC-4, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 24/09/2022 02:39, Ricky wrote:
> > On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:25:30 AM UTC-4, Jeff Layman wrote:
> >> On 23/09/2022 04:55, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
> >>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 12:30:38 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> >>>>
> >>>> If it takes 15x as long to charge an EV as it takes to gas up an IC
> >>>> car, there is going to be a giant real estate problem.
> >>>
> >>> Twaddle. Cars are parked 95% of the time, and most EV's get charged relatively slowing from regular mains sockets, not by fast chargers.
> >> But that wasn't what the article was about. It was about the EV charging
> >> experience during a 400 mile trip. I assume that sort of distance
> >> wouldn't be particularly unusual in the USA or indeed Australia
> >> (although it would be in the UK where I am).
> >>
> >> What would have happened if the driver hadn't been able to find a
> >> charging point at Interstate 5 at Frazier Mountain Park Road? Even then,
> >> he could only get 9 miles of charge after a 75 minute wait. If he ran
> >> out of petrol with an IC car, he'd probably be able to get a lift to a
> >> garage and buy a gallon can of petrol and take it back to his vehicle,
> >> which would be enough to get him 30 miles or so to a garage and to fill
> >> up. With an EV, the ironic option would be to get a service vehicle with
> >> a pretty big IC-powered generator in the back, and wait an hour for it
> >> to charge his EV's batteries sufficiently to get enough range to reach a
> >> charging station. Or are there EV service vehicles with large batteries
> >> in the back with which to charge the stranded EV vehicle's batteries?
> >
> > Why do people who don't drive electric vehicles, get so wigged out by articles about how hard it is to charge electric vehicles???
> >
> > What's the deal?
> >
> > Most people who post in this group are old enough, that even with the 2035 mandate of some states, will never need to drive a BEV if they don't want to.
> >
> > So why all the bellyaching? If you aren't going to drive a BEV, stop complaining about them. The industry and the charging infrastructure are not constants. They will grow and improve, so that, someday, if you live long enough to be forced to buy one, you may actually like driving a BEV... if you still have a license by then.
> Who's complaining? I was quoting from an article written by someone who
> had experienced an issue - or issues - while on a 400-mile EV drive. I
> took one point and extrapolated to an entirely reasonable situation
> where if he'd been 9 miles on he'd have run out of power. I didn't see
> Ed Lee's post, but according to Bill Sloman, Ed had suffered a very
> similar situation, and required a tow truck to get him out of it - at a
> price.

Some guy, went on some trip and had X happen to him. That's pretty pointless. I have no idea why anyone would go on a trip, not knowing for certain they would be able to charge and reach their destination. I can't think of a reason why anyone would only get 9 miles in an hour and a quarter of charging. That's only 3 kW, 12 amps at 240V. I've never seen or heard of a level 2 charger that lame. Even the units at 208V and 24 amps (free at the hospital) give 5 kW. The guy clearly had to shop around for such a low end charger. I also have no idea why the guy would run so low before charging up. So I'm calling BS on this report. Just like the one where a reporter rented an EV in Chicago and drove, round trip to NO, I believe. They did the minimum to verify the chargers existed and were functioning.

It's not great that you have to work so hard to take trips in BEVs today. It won't be like that forever, but if you want reliable charging, buy (or rent) a Tesla. I never have these problems and I drove from DC to Houston two weeks after I bought the car in 2018, without any of these problems.

> I actually like the idea that battery-powered EVs will be the norm *one
> day*. After all, I can't see an autonomous petrol-powered car being
> developed, so by the time I'm too old to drive safely, I'll appreciate
> getting in to a car and telling it the destination, rather than me
> driving it there.

Why can't an ICE be autonomous? With an automatic transmission attached, you can barely tell what type of engine it has... well, until you punch it hard and hear nothing from the electric car. Over the last century, they have made amazing progress in ICE improvements, taming most of their problems.. All except the exhaust problem.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>
>https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point

In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
eventually be able to help that energy time shift.

Make the electricity where you use it if possible.

Not that good in the north of course.

boB

On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>>
>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>
>
> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
> cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
>
> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
>
> Not that good in the north of course.

You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...

On 2022-09-27 07:50, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>>>
>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>>
>>
>> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
>> cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
>> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
>> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
>>
>> Not that good in the north of course.
>
> You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...

Oh, well now, that isn't at all evident. There is extensive
infrastructure for both. A single tanker truck full of fuel
delivers about as much usable energy as 450s of work of your
typical 1GW nuclear power plant. How this works out in terms
of convenience or cost of transport is not so easy to find.

Jeroen Belleman

On 9/27/2022 5:10 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-09-27 07:50, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be
>>>> more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better
>>>> than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV
>>>> conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>>>
>>>
>>> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
>>> cars.  If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
>>> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
>>> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
>>>
>>> Not that good in the north of course.
>>
>> You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
>
> Oh, well now, that isn't at all evident. There is extensive
> infrastructure for both.

No, there isn't. You can't, for example, drive a tanker full of
fuel through most residential neighborhoods. Yet, damn near every home
has power lines run to it!

Power lines don't worry about "low overpasses" or weight limits on roads.
Or, flood waters, high winds, etc. Power is restored to disaster
areas a lot quicker than fuel deliveries (of course, pumping that fuel
is kinda hard without POWER running to the pumping stations. oops!)

> A single tanker truck full of fuel
> delivers about as much usable energy as 450s of work of your
> typical 1GW nuclear power plant. How this works out in terms
> of convenience or cost of transport is not so easy to find.

Wow, almost *8* minutes! So, we'd need 8 trucks every hour, about
180 a day, 65,000 annually. Each spewing exhaust as they make their
deliveries. To replace that *one* power plant.

Palo Verde (here) is a 3.3GW plant serving ~4M people. So, 215,000
trucks to deliver that equivalent power -- one for every 20 people.
Day, night, rain, etc.

On 2022-09-27 15:39, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/27/2022 5:10 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>> On 2022-09-27 07:50, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>>> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
>>>> cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
>>>> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
>>>> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
>>>>
>>>> Not that good in the north of course.
>>>
>>> You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
>>
>> Oh, well now, that isn't at all evident. There is extensive
>> infrastructure for both.
>
> No, there isn't. You can't, for example, drive a tanker full of
> fuel through most residential neighborhoods. Yet, damn near every home
> has power lines run to it!
>

Don't be silly. They don't run a tanker to your door, but they also
don't run a 400kV power line to your home!

> Power lines don't worry about "low overpasses" or weight limits on roads.
> Or, flood waters, high winds, etc. Power is restored to disaster
> areas a lot quicker than fuel deliveries (of course, pumping that fuel
> is kinda hard without POWER running to the pumping stations. oops!)
>
>> A single tanker truck full of fuel
>> delivers about as much usable energy as 450s of work of your
>> typical 1GW nuclear power plant. How this works out in terms
>> of convenience or cost of transport is not so easy to find.
>
> Wow, almost *8* minutes! So, we'd need 8 trucks every hour, about
> 180 a day, 65,000 annually. Each spewing exhaust as they make their
> deliveries. To replace that *one* power plant.

Well, yes. Coal power plants used to have whole trains full of coal
every day. So?

>
> Palo Verde (here) is a 3.3GW plant serving ~4M people. So, 215,000
> trucks to deliver that equivalent power -- one for every 20 people.
> Day, night, rain, etc.

You're confusing power and energy here. Try again.

Jeroen Belleman

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 22:50:38 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

>On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>>>
>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>>
>>
>> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
>> cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
>> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
>>
>> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
>>
>> Not that good in the north of course.
>
>You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
>

One small product pipeline moves multiples of the power of a giant HV
transmission line. NG enters my house through a tiny plastic tube,
much smaller than the electric lines. Much more reliable and cheaper
too.

I can gas up my car from 0 to 100% in 5 minutes. An equivalent
electric charge at home would take about a week... if California
allowed charging 24/7.

Chemicals pack a lot of energy. That's why tanks don't have rail guns.

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 8:10:15 AM UTC-4, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-09-27 07:50, Don Y wrote:
> > On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
> >> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> >>
> >>
> >> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
> >> cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
> >> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
> >> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
> >>
> >> Not that good in the north of course.
> >
> > You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
> Oh, well now, that isn't at all evident. There is extensive
> infrastructure for both. A single tanker truck full of fuel
> delivers about as much usable energy as 450s of work of your
> typical 1GW nuclear power plant. How this works out in terms
> of convenience or cost of transport is not so easy to find.
>
> Jeroen Belleman

We will have a pretty good subjective answer when they start delivering fossil fuels to service stations using electric trucks. Give it a few years. It's not that much further out.

Of course some people here think there are far too many problems to solve to let this happen. You know, the ones with little imagination. The ones who have trouble brainstorming to find solutions. The rest of us seem to have no trouble picturing the future.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-09-27 15:39, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/27/2022 5:10 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-27 07:50, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>>>> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it
>>>>>> may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got
>>>>>> to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to
>>>>>> accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many
>>>>>> cars trying to get on the chargers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
>>>>> cars.  If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
>>>>> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
>>>>> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not that good in the north of course.
>>>>
>>>> You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
>>>
>>> Oh, well now, that isn't at all evident. There is extensive
>>> infrastructure for both.
>>
>> No, there isn't.  You can't, for example, drive a tanker full of
>> fuel through most residential neighborhoods.  Yet, damn near every home
>> has power lines run to it!
>>
>
> Don't be silly. They don't run a tanker to your door, but they also
> don't run a 400kV power line to your home!

And round here they _do too_ run a tanker to your house. Lots of folks
use oil heat, usually with a service contract so that the oil company
guarantees that your tank won't run dry, and they look after fixing your
furnace too.

>> Power lines don't worry about "low overpasses" or weight limits on roads.
>> Or, flood waters, high winds, etc.  Power is restored to disaster
>> areas a lot quicker than fuel deliveries (of course, pumping that fuel
>> is kinda hard without POWER running to the pumping stations.  oops!)
>>
>>> A single tanker truck full of fuel
>>> delivers about as much usable energy as 450s of work of your
>>> typical 1GW nuclear power plant. How this works out in terms
>>> of convenience or cost of transport is not so easy to find.
>>
>> Wow, almost *8* minutes!  So, we'd need 8 trucks every hour, about
>> 180 a day, 65,000 annually.  Each spewing exhaust as they make their
>> deliveries.  To replace that *one* power plant.
>
> Well, yes. Coal power plants used to have whole trains full of coal
> every day. So?
>
>>
>> Palo Verde (here) is a 3.3GW plant serving ~4M people.  So, 215,000
>> trucks to deliver that equivalent power -- one for every 20 people.
>> Day, night, rain, etc.
>
> You're confusing power and energy here. Try again.
>
> Jeroen Belleman
>
>
>

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 10:45:18 AM UTC-4, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-09-27 15:39, Don Y wrote:
> > On 9/27/2022 5:10 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> >> On 2022-09-27 07:50, Don Y wrote:
> >>> On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
> >>>> cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
> >>>> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
> >>>> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not that good in the north of course.
> >>>
> >>> You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
> >>
> >> Oh, well now, that isn't at all evident. There is extensive
> >> infrastructure for both.
> >
> > No, there isn't. You can't, for example, drive a tanker full of
> > fuel through most residential neighborhoods. Yet, damn near every home
> > has power lines run to it!
> >
> Don't be silly. They don't run a tanker to your door, but they also
> don't run a 400kV power line to your home!

No, they don't bring gasoline to your door. You have to drive to pick it up. Meet them "halfway", so to speak. That's the point. Electricity *is* brought to your home. No 400kV power lines because they aren't needed. What a silly idea.

> > Power lines don't worry about "low overpasses" or weight limits on roads.
> > Or, flood waters, high winds, etc. Power is restored to disaster
> > areas a lot quicker than fuel deliveries (of course, pumping that fuel
> > is kinda hard without POWER running to the pumping stations. oops!)
> >
> >> A single tanker truck full of fuel
> >> delivers about as much usable energy as 450s of work of your
> >> typical 1GW nuclear power plant. How this works out in terms
> >> of convenience or cost of transport is not so easy to find.
> >
> > Wow, almost *8* minutes! So, we'd need 8 trucks every hour, about
> > 180 a day, 65,000 annually. Each spewing exhaust as they make their
> > deliveries. To replace that *one* power plant.
> Well, yes. Coal power plants used to have whole trains full of coal
> every day. So?

Still do. It's a silly comparison. Some electric wires, or a wagon train of fuel trucks. No comparison. They put nuke plants far away from civilization because they are not considered safe. Then you talk about connecting them to civilization with a tanker truck train. You can't see the issue that electric wires solve here?

> > Palo Verde (here) is a 3.3GW plant serving ~4M people. So, 215,000
> > trucks to deliver that equivalent power -- one for every 20 people.
> > Day, night, rain, etc.
> You're confusing power and energy here. Try again.

No, he's about right. I couldn't find a number for how much fuel a tanker can carry. The tank size is 11,500 gallons maximum, but they are limited by the gross weight. 10,000 gal is a good ball park number, or 60,000 lbs of fuel, giving 337 MWh. But in a car, that fuel is about a quarter to a third the efficiency of electricity, so more like 100 MWh. That's 6 minutes of a 1 GW nuclear plant output. So, 87,600 loads in a year, day, night, rain, snow... the mail must go on! No, wait, that's someone else. I wonder what the fuel efficiency of a tanker truck is? Certainly, that depends on the distance.

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 22:50:38 -0700, Don Y
> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
> >> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> >>
> >>
> >> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
> >> cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
> >> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
> >>
> >> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
> >>
> >> Not that good in the north of course.
> >
> >You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
> >
> One small product pipeline moves multiples of the power of a giant HV
> transmission line. NG enters my house through a tiny plastic tube,
> much smaller than the electric lines. Much more reliable and cheaper
> too.
>
> I can gas up my car from 0 to 100% in 5 minutes. An equivalent
> electric charge at home would take about a week... if California
> allowed charging 24/7.
>
> Chemicals pack a lot of energy. That's why tanks don't have rail guns.

All those advantages of chemical fuel, yet you still have electricity. That's very odd.

How about we brainstorm some of these problems? See if we can find potential solutions?

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 12:09:17 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> > On 2022-09-27 15:39, Don Y wrote:
> >> On 9/27/2022 5:10 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> >>> On 2022-09-27 07:50, Don Y wrote:
> >>>> On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >>>>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it
> >>>>>> may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got
> >>>>>> to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to
> >>>>>> accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many
> >>>>>> cars trying to get on the chargers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
> >>>>> cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
> >>>>> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
> >>>>> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not that good in the north of course.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
> >>>
> >>> Oh, well now, that isn't at all evident. There is extensive
> >>> infrastructure for both.
> >>
> >> No, there isn't. You can't, for example, drive a tanker full of
> >> fuel through most residential neighborhoods. Yet, damn near every home
> >> has power lines run to it!
> >>
> >
> > Don't be silly. They don't run a tanker to your door, but they also
> > don't run a 400kV power line to your home!
> And round here they _do too_ run a tanker to your house. Lots of folks
> use oil heat, usually with a service contract so that the oil company
> guarantees that your tank won't run dry, and they look after fixing your
> furnace too.

That is very disingenuous. An oil delivery truck is not a "tanker" truck. I guess it is by Phil's view of the world though.

> --
> Dr Philip C D Hobbs
> Principal Consultant
> ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
> Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
> Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
>
> http://electrooptical.net
> http://hobbs-eo.com

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 9/27/2022 9:09 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>> On 2022-09-27 15:39, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 9/27/2022 5:10 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-27 07:50, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>>>>>> <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be
>>>>>>> more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way
>>>>>>> better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a
>>>>>>> total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on
>>>>>>> the chargers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
>>>>>> cars.  If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
>>>>>> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
>>>>>> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not that good in the north of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
>>>>
>>>> Oh, well now, that isn't at all evident. There is extensive
>>>> infrastructure for both.
>>>
>>> No, there isn't.  You can't, for example, drive a tanker full of
>>> fuel through most residential neighborhoods.  Yet, damn near every home
>>> has power lines run to it!
>>>
>>
>> Don't be silly. They don't run a tanker to your door, but they also
>> don't run a 400kV power line to your home!
>
> And round here they _do too_ run a tanker to your house.  Lots of folks use oil
> heat, usually with a service contract so that the oil company guarantees that
> your tank won't run dry, and they look after fixing your furnace too.

A tanker (of the size Jeroen is speaking) holds ~12000 gallons.
The "oil man" drives a tiny little thing that can't fill the 200G tanks
of more than a few homes. And, make several visits each heating season
(less frequently in the other months if you have oil-fired hot water)

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:35:13 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 11:19:47 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 22:50:38 -0700, Don Y
>> <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >On 9/26/2022 9:50 PM, boB wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> What a mess! Wonder what is causing the failures? Sounds like it may be more with connection issues than the hardware. They've got to do way better than this if they expect to even come close to accommodating a total EV conversion- there are going to be so many cars trying to get on the chargers.
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2022-09-22/boiling-point-californias-ev-charging-network-could-use-a-jolt-a-trip-down-i-5-shows-boiling-point
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In the southern USA where the sun works, PV will be able to charge the
>> >> cars. If they need to be charged at night, then batteries will
>> >> eventually be able to help that energy time shift.
>> >>
>> >> Make the electricity where you use it if possible.
>> >>
>> >> Not that good in the north of course.
>> >
>> >You can move electricity a lot easier than liquid fuels...
>> >
>> One small product pipeline moves multiples of the power of a giant HV
>> transmission line. NG enters my house through a tiny plastic tube,
>> much smaller than the electric lines. Much more reliable and cheaper
>> too.
>>
>> I can gas up my car from 0 to 100% in 5 minutes. An equivalent
>> electric charge at home would take about a week... if California
>> allowed charging 24/7.
>>
>> Chemicals pack a lot of energy. That's why tanks don't have rail guns.
>
>All those advantages of chemical fuel, yet you still have electricity. That's very odd.
>
>How about we brainstorm some of these problems? See if we can find potential solutions?

Your prime motivation is to insult, which makes you not very good at
brainstorming.

No thanks.