Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air defence alarmed and/or activated.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044

The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his truck.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-theories

Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of some projectile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU

Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get answers.

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 6:01:16 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air defence alarmed and/or activated.
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044

They have this anti-shipping cruise missile:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-360_Neptune

Range is about right to hit targets in Crimea when launched from a ship. Anti-shipping missiles are designed to evade ship close in defensive weapons, which they usually do by flying low and under the radar, at least when they get close. By the time the air defense is able to see the missile, there's not enough time for them to do anything about it. Looks like this Saky air base is right on the water, so it's a straight shot in from a sea-based platform.

>
> The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his truck.

Who cares what they did? Truck bombs are pretty crude. The bridge was a for- show target, and that little bit of damage won't make any difference to anything. And because the detonation *may* have been synchronized with a passing train, the idiot commentators are saying it was sophisticated military attack- what a joke.

>
> https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-theories
>
> Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of some projectile.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU
>
> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get answers.

Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote in
news:2552e00e-d982-4e98-a2d3-7ac916a0fcb2n@googlegroups.com:

> Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air
> defence alarmed and/or activated.

Oh boy! The retreating Russians are not operating their piss poor
detection systems as they retreat... Whodathunkit?

> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044
>
> The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian
> custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his
> truck.

Or you are just being totally retarded... again.

Unlike Islamic extremist mindsets, real military men do not commit
suicide when they take out an enemy military asset, idiot.

> https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-theo
> ries
>
> Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of
> some projectile.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU
>
> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
> air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
> answers.

If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:
> > Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air
> > defence alarmed and/or activated.
> Oh boy! The retreating Russians are not operating their piss poor
> detection systems as they retreat... Whodathunkit?
> > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044
> >
> > The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian
> > custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his
> > truck.
> Or you are just being totally retarded... again.
>
> Unlike Islamic extremist mindsets, real military men do not commit
> suicide when they take out an enemy military asset, idiot.

And it's not necessary. Once the driver activates the timer for however long it takes him to run a half mile, there's nothing anyone can do to stop the explosion.

>
> > https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-theo
> > ries
> >
> > Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of
> > some projectile.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU
> >
> > Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
> > air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
> > answers.
> If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
> retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.

I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for 8 years now.

The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can get. It's not some hastily set up field station of a retreating army.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 7:27:19 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> > Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
> > news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:
> > > Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air
> > > defence alarmed and/or activated.
> > Oh boy! The retreating Russians are not operating their piss poor
> > detection systems as they retreat... Whodathunkit?
> > > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044
> > >
> > > The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian
> > > custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his
> > > truck.
> > Or you are just being totally retarded... again.
> >
> > Unlike Islamic extremist mindsets, real military men do not commit
> > suicide when they take out an enemy military asset, idiot.
> And it's not necessary. Once the driver activates the timer for however long it takes him to run a half mile, there's nothing anyone can do to stop the explosion.

According to their analysis, the truck already passed the point of detonation, on the incline of the arc. The truck would need to have some bomb release mechanism, and safely drive away. The videos would have shown release of a large bomb. They are lots of video cameras on the bridge.

> >
> > > https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-theo
> > > ries
> > >
> > > Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of
> > > some projectile.
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU
> > >
> > > Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
> > > air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
> > > answers.
> > If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
> > retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.
> I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for 8 years now.
>
> The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can get. It's not some hastily set up field station of a retreating army.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)

And the Crimea bridge is the most heavily protected site in the world, with many air defence systems in place, if only they are effective.

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 11:45:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 7:27:19 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> > > Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
> > > news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:
> > > > Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air
> > > > defence alarmed and/or activated.
> > > Oh boy! The retreating Russians are not operating their piss poor
> > > detection systems as they retreat... Whodathunkit?
> > > > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044
> > > >
> > > > The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian
> > > > custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his
> > > > truck.
> > > Or you are just being totally retarded... again.
> > >
> > > Unlike Islamic extremist mindsets, real military men do not commit
> > > suicide when they take out an enemy military asset, idiot.
> > And it's not necessary. Once the driver activates the timer for however long it takes him to run a half mile, there's nothing anyone can do to stop the explosion.
> According to their analysis, the truck already passed the point of detonation, on the incline of the arc. The truck would need to have some bomb release mechanism, and safely drive away. The videos would have shown release of a large bomb. They are lots of video cameras on the bridge.

Co-conspirators probably just pushed the bomb or bombs out the back door.

> > >
> > > > https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-theo
> > > > ries
> > > >
> > > > Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of
> > > > some projectile.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU
> > > >
> > > > Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
> > > > air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
> > > > answers.
> > > If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
> > > retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.
> > I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for 8 years now.
> >
> > The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can get. It's not some hastily set up field station of a retreating army.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)
> And the Crimea bridge is the most heavily protected site in the world, with many air defence systems in place, if only they are effective.

You need a big bomb to disable the bridge. The experts are estimating about 50,000 lbs was used, and that's about right. A missile is comparatively a firecracker compared to that- maybe create a pothole.

The bridge is not vital. It was only recently completed. A big barge ferry is good enough for them.

Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote in
news:76d18cd0-b17d-49a4-aad5-0ffe9615a0e8n@googlegroups.com:

> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4,
> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:
>> > Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air
>> > defence alarmed and/or activated.
>> Oh boy! The retreating Russians are not operating their piss poor
>> detection systems as they retreat... Whodathunkit?
>> > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044
>> >
>> > The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian
>> > custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his
>> > truck.
>> Or you are just being totally retarded... again.
>>
>> Unlike Islamic extremist mindsets, real military men do not
>> commit suicide when they take out an enemy military asset, idiot.
>
> And it's not necessary. Once the driver activates the timer for
> however long it takes him to run a half mile, there's nothing
> anyone can do to stop the explosion.
>
I pretty much made the point that the Ukraine defenders would not
perform a suicide mission, so I am quite sure it was never in any
plan.
>> > https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-t
>> > heo ries
>> >
>> > Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of
>> > some projectile.
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU
>> >
>> > Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
>> > air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
>> > answers.
>> If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as
>> they retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally
>> estimated.
>
> I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an
> autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for
> 8 years now.
>
> The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can
> get. It's not some hastily set up field station of a retreating
> army.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)
>

It is, however, very much withing range. And our runway
destruction bombs do a real good job. Just wait to see what is next
for the invaders, regardless of how many years ago they did their
filching.

Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote in news:5ee0d10f-98d4-408a-
97b1-9a8c0910b19dn@googlegroups.com:

> They are lots of video cameras on the bridge.

Not nearly as many as just the other day. Bwuahahahahahaha!

On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 03:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air defence alarmed and/or activated.
>
>https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044
>
>The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his truck.
>
>https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-theories
>
>Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of some projectile.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU
>
>Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get answers.

The Russian military equipment, and the operators, are junk. Probably
all the tubes were stolen years ago.

On 10/14/2022 3:01 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
> The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian custody. He
> must be superman to survive such blast from his truck.

Or, the truck made of something that could survive (and shelter) the
blast. Tell Putin to make his NEXT bridge out of that same stuff!!!

> Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of some
> projectile.

Seems like that would require a long-range munition to cross the sea
(and some russian territory) to strike from that north side.

The position of the scorched asphalt does draw into question the idea that
the "first" truck was the source of the explosion. It's not like the
truck could have *dropped* something and sped past (which would possibly
allow the driver to survive -- is the truck intact??)

Water-based attacks (from below) seem to have been ruled out as the underside
of the bridge structures doesn't show the same scorching as the roadway
surface.

"Egg, meet face"

> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian air defence?
> We might have to wait until the war is over to get answers.

Whatever the cause, one would have to be wary of a repeat performance!
Esp if you claim to have caught the perpetrator (and it was accomplished
via a vehicle THAT YOUR FOLKS INSPECTED PRIOR TO THE CROSSING).

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in
news:tidbb6$2gmf8$2@dont-email.me:

> On 10/14/2022 3:01 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
>> The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian
>> custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his
>> truck.
>
> Or, the truck made of something that could survive (and shelter)
> the blast. Tell Putin to make his NEXT bridge out of that same
> stuff!!!
>
>> Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of
>> some projectile.
>
> Seems like that would require a long-range munition to cross the
> sea (and some russian territory) to strike from that north side.

Ever heard of "The Upkeep" weapon? Or "Operation Chastise"?

> The position of the scorched asphalt does draw into question the
> idea that the "first" truck was the source of the explosion. It's
> not like the truck could have *dropped* something and sped past
> (which would possibly allow the driver to survive -- is the truck
> intact??)
>
> Water-based attacks (from below) seem to have been ruled out as
> the underside of the bridge structures doesn't show the same
> scorching as the roadway surface.
>
> "Egg, meet face"
>
>> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
>> air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
>> answers.
>
> Whatever the cause, one would have to be wary of a repeat
> performance!

I will bet that they (Ukraine) apply further damage. The gains are
military, unlike Putin's blatant attacks on civillians throughout his
entire criminal "campaign" invasion of Ukraine.

When Ukraine starts taking EVERYTHING Putin has illicitly claimed
and occupied back, Putin will again try to convince his people that
Russia is under threat. When no one has attacked them in many many
decades. If he steps over the line, the Kremlin itself becomes
vulnerable, whether he is in it when it happens or not. He has to
weigh that before he does anything stupid.

> Esp if you claim to have caught the perpetrator (and
> it was accomplished via a vehicle THAT YOUR FOLKS INSPECTED PRIOR
> TO THE CROSSING).

Maybe they were paid off with new boots, Russian Rubles, and
hookers. I'd bet it would not take much to get cooperation from a
lot of Putin's "men in the field". They probably like fireworks as
much as the next guy.

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 9:01:49 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> On 10/14/2022 3:01 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
> > The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian custody. He
> > must be superman to survive such blast from his truck.
> Or, the truck made of something that could survive (and shelter) the
> blast. Tell Putin to make his NEXT bridge out of that same stuff!!!
> > Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of some
> > projectile.
> Seems like that would require a long-range munition to cross the sea
> (and some russian territory) to strike from that north side.

Russia control the entire area north of the bridge. The air defence systems are pointing to the south.

> The position of the scorched asphalt does draw into question the idea that
> the "first" truck was the source of the explosion. It's not like the
> truck could have *dropped* something and sped past (which would possibly
> allow the driver to survive -- is the truck intact??)

No mention of the truck and no truck parts on the bridge. I think they are just holding the driver to stop him from speaking out.
It's better to blame the truck than to admit failure of their "air defence".

> Water-based attacks (from below) seem to have been ruled out as the underside
> of the bridge structures doesn't show the same scorching as the roadway
> surface.

I bet it's a mini-sub firing stealth missiles from the north. Same type that hit the Saky airfield.

> "Egg, meet face"
> > Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian air defence?
> > We might have to wait until the war is over to get answers.
> Whatever the cause, one would have to be wary of a repeat performance!
> Esp if you claim to have caught the perpetrator (and it was accomplished
> via a vehicle THAT YOUR FOLKS INSPECTED PRIOR TO THE CROSSING).

On 10/15/2022 6:57 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
>> The position of the scorched asphalt does draw into question the idea
>> that the "first" truck was the source of the explosion. It's not like the
>> truck could have *dropped* something and sped past (which would possibly
>> allow the driver to survive -- is the truck intact??)
>
> No mention of the truck and no truck parts on the bridge. I think they are
> just holding the driver to stop him from speaking out. It's better to blame
> the truck than to admit failure of their "air defence".

I think blaming the truck looks like a worse situation -- "why couldn't you
STOP the truck from getting onto the bridge FROM RUSSIAN CONTROLLED TERRITORY?"

This seems like it should have been easier than stopping a "high speed
weapon"

"How are you going to stop OTHER trucks from repeating this attack?
Why weren't THOSE (new) measures in place, before?"

>> Water-based attacks (from below) seem to have been ruled out as the
>> underside of the bridge structures doesn't show the same scorching as the
>> roadway surface.
>
> I bet it's a mini-sub firing stealth missiles from the north. Same type
> that hit the Saky airfield.

Not an expert on high explosives but it seems like getting a sub to
navigate in a shallow sea (6-7 fathoms), undetected AND carry a munition
sufficient to cause that sort of damage AND approach from the north
(russian held territory) AND target the roadway instead of the
railway AND escape AND cause the blast damage to appear on the TOP of
the roadway surface seems a bit too far-fetched.

On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 8:23:48 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 03:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air defence alarmed and/or activated.
> >
> >https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044
> >
> >The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his truck.
> >
> >https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-theories
> >
> >Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of some projectile.
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU
> >
> >Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get answers.
> The Russian military equipment, and the operators, are junk. Probably
> all the tubes were stolen years ago.

To be sold on a black market or EBay... They probably have miscreants "throwing" military successes to Ukraine as well as giving them weapons- FOR A PRICE. "We're going to do a tactical withdrawal today- and leave those ammo depots right where they are. We're not taking them."

In Chechnya relatively high ranking Russian military were selling their advanced SAMs to the separatists.

On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 10:15:10 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

> Not an expert on high explosives but it seems like getting a sub to
> navigate in a shallow sea (6-7 fathoms), undetected AND carry a munition
> sufficient to cause that sort of damage AND approach from the north
> (russian held territory) AND target the roadway instead of the
> railway AND escape AND cause the blast damage to appear on the TOP of
> the roadway surface seems a bit too far-fetched.

https://www.pci.org/PCI/Design_Resources/Building_Engineering_Resources/Design_for_Blast_Resistance.aspx#:~:text=Precast%20concrete%20provides%20excellent%20Anti,structures%20providing%20protection%20and%20resiliency.

Not all concrete is created equal. Use your common sense. In addition to constant exposure to highly corrosive influences in the sea water and air, the bridge components need to be about the strongest available to handle the dead load of the bridge itself as well as the live load of fast moving heavy vehicles. Those piers they have are positively HUGE. The equivalent weight of TNT explosives required to knock stuff like that down is an integer multiple of the weight of the concrete- so that makes it a really large amount.

On 10/14/2022 8:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 03:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
> <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ukraine claims responsibility of Saky airfield attack. No air defence alarmed and/or activated.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62821044
>>
>> The supposed truck bomb driver is alive and well, under Russian custody. He must be superman to survive such blast from his truck.
>>
>> https://www.npr.org/2022/10/13/1128625322/crimea-bridge-attack-theories
>>
>> Enforcer has detail analysis of damages, likely side impact of some projectile.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ltMCxKOPU
>>
>> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get answers.
>
> The Russian military equipment, and the operators, are junk. Probably
> all the tubes were stolen years ago.
>

Whew, good thing the DOD spent like 2 trillion dollars over the past 30
years to "keep up" with all their "advanced hardware."

On 14/10/2022 17:11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 11:45:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 7:27:19 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>>>> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:

>>>>> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
>>>>> air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
>>>>> answers.
>>>> If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
>>>> retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.
>>> I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for 8 years now.
>>>
>>> The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can get. It's not some hastily set up field station of a retreating army.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)
>> And the Crimea bridge is the most heavily protected site in the world, with many air defence systems in place, if only they are effective.
>
> You need a big bomb to disable the bridge. The experts are estimating about 50,000 lbs was used, and that's about right. A missile is comparatively a firecracker compared to that- maybe create a pothole.
>
> The bridge is not vital. It was only recently completed. A big barge ferry is good enough for them.

Conjecture in the UK is that the bomb was delivered either by boat,
barge or aquatic drone see the second video on this page. There is a
wake near one of the supports just before the big bang.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63192757

Even on the first video you see substantial amounts of water raining
down from the right which would be consistent with an explosion
underneath the road deck (exploiting the design of a bridge to damage
it). Gravity acts downwards so sudden upwards forces can do a lot more
damage to the structure on the recoil when it falls back down again.

I doubt if anything even using military high explosives that could be
manhandled off the back of a lorry would give such a very big bang.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 1:05:48 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 14/10/2022 17:11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 11:45:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> >> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 7:27:19 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> >>>> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>> news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:
> >>>>> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
> >>>>> air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
> >>>>> answers.
> >>>> If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
> >>>> retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.
> >>> I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for 8 years now..
> >>>
> >>> The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can get.. It's not some hastily set up field station of a retreating army.
> >>>
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)
> >> And the Crimea bridge is the most heavily protected site in the world, with many air defence systems in place, if only they are effective.
> >
> > You need a big bomb to disable the bridge. The experts are estimating about 50,000 lbs was used, and that's about right. A missile is comparatively a firecracker compared to that- maybe create a pothole.
> >
> > The bridge is not vital. It was only recently completed. A big barge ferry is good enough for them.
> Conjecture in the UK is that the bomb was delivered either by boat,
> barge or aquatic drone see the second video on this page. There is a
> wake near one of the supports just before the big bang.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63192757

That does show the explosion initiated underneath the road deck. And that makes sense. The standard combat engineering methodology for demolishing a bridge is to cut the spans. Those would be those big steel I-beams, and would explain the presence of steel cutting thermite. I don't care what they missed on their video, but someone or even a group, got under that bridge and placed charges on those I-beams. If a submarine delivered anything it was frogmen.

>
> Even on the first video you see substantial amounts of water raining
> down from the right which would be consistent with an explosion
> underneath the road deck (exploiting the design of a bridge to damage
> it). Gravity acts downwards so sudden upwards forces can do a lot more
> damage to the structure on the recoil when it falls back down again.
>
> I doubt if anything even using military high explosives that could be
> manhandled off the back of a lorry would give such a very big bang.

There are such things as casters. They could have used lifts that get tilted up and are lined with zero coefficient of friction material- and yes, such material is readily available for the industrial handling of goods that are moved down chutes.

>
> --
> Regards,
> Martin Brown

On 10/15/2022 8:23 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 10:15:10 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>
>> Not an expert on high explosives but it seems like getting a sub to
>> navigate in a shallow sea (6-7 fathoms), undetected AND carry a munition
>> sufficient to cause that sort of damage AND approach from the north
>> (russian held territory) AND target the roadway instead of the railway AND
>> escape AND cause the blast damage to appear on the TOP of the roadway
>> surface seems a bit too far-fetched.
>
> https://www.pci.org/PCI/Design_Resources/Building_Engineering_Resources/Design_for_Blast_Resistance.aspx#:~:text=Precast%20concrete%20provides%20excellent%20Anti,structures%20providing%20protection%20and%20resiliency.
>
> Not all concrete is created equal. Use your common sense. In addition to
> constant exposure to highly corrosive influences in the sea water and air,
> the bridge components need to be about the strongest available to handle the
> dead load of the bridge itself as well as the live load of fast moving heavy
> vehicles. Those piers they have are positively HUGE. The equivalent weight
> of TNT explosives required to knock stuff like that down is an integer
> multiple of the weight of the concrete- so that makes it a really large
> amount.

Had you been less aggressive in your quoting, you'd have found:

I bet it's a mini-sub firing stealth missiles from the north. Same type
---------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
that hit the Saky airfield.

I.e., something that came OUT of the water to target the structures
atop the piers:

AND cause the blast damage to appear on the TOP of the roadway

On Sat, 15 Oct 2022 18:05:35 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 14/10/2022 17:11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 11:45:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 7:27:19 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>>>>> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:
>
>>>>>> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
>>>>>> air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
>>>>>> answers.
>>>>> If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
>>>>> retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.
>>>> I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for 8 years now.
>>>>
>>>> The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can get. It's not some hastily set up field station of a retreating army.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)
>>> And the Crimea bridge is the most heavily protected site in the world, with many air defence systems in place, if only they are effective.
>>
>> You need a big bomb to disable the bridge. The experts are estimating about 50,000 lbs was used, and that's about right. A missile is comparatively a firecracker compared to that- maybe create a pothole.
>>
>> The bridge is not vital. It was only recently completed. A big barge ferry is good enough for them.
>
>Conjecture in the UK is that the bomb was delivered either by boat,
>barge or aquatic drone see the second video on this page. There is a
>wake near one of the supports just before the big bang.
>
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63192757>
>
>Even on the first video you see substantial amounts of water raining
>down from the right which would be consistent with an explosion
>underneath the road deck (exploiting the design of a bridge to damage
>it). Gravity acts downwards so sudden upwards forces can do a lot more
>damage to the structure on the recoil when it falls back down again.
>
>I doubt if anything even using military high explosives that could be
>manhandled off the back of a lorry would give such a very big bang.

I agree. Also, if it were a truck bomb, the bridge decking would be
ripped up and the guardrails torn off, but the decks look just fine
and the guardrails et al are still there.

Joe Gwinn

On 10/15/2022 10:05 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 14/10/2022 17:11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 11:45:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 7:27:19 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4,
>>>> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>>>>> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:
>
>>>>>> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
>>>>>> air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
>>>>>> answers.
>>>>> If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
>>>>> retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.
>>>> I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an
>>>> autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for 8 years
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>> The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can get. It's
>>>> not some hastily set up field station of a retreating army.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)
>>> And the Crimea bridge is the most heavily protected site in the world, with
>>> many air defence systems in place, if only they are effective.
>>
>> You need a big bomb to disable the bridge. The experts are estimating about
>> 50,000 lbs was used, and that's about right. A missile is comparatively a
>> firecracker compared to that- maybe create a pothole.
>>
>> The bridge is not vital. It was only recently completed. A big barge ferry is
>> good enough for them.
>
> Conjecture in the UK is that the bomb was delivered either by boat, barge or
> aquatic drone see the second video on this page. There is a wake near one of
> the supports just before the big bang.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63192757
>
> Even on the first video you see substantial amounts of water raining down from
> the right which would be consistent with an explosion underneath the road deck
> (exploiting the design of a bridge to damage it). Gravity acts downwards so
> sudden upwards forces can do a lot more damage to the structure on the recoil
> when it falls back down again.

Big signs of fire/explosion on top of the roadway -- yet
none underneath??

<https://twitter.com/N_Waters89/status/1579196213156810752/photo/2>

> I doubt if anything even using military high explosives that could be
> manhandled off the back of a lorry would give such a very big bang.
>

On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 4:08:31 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 10/15/2022 8:23 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 10:15:10 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> >
> >> Not an expert on high explosives but it seems like getting a sub to
> >> navigate in a shallow sea (6-7 fathoms), undetected AND carry a munition
> >> sufficient to cause that sort of damage AND approach from the north
> >> (russian held territory) AND target the roadway instead of the railway AND
> >> escape AND cause the blast damage to appear on the TOP of the roadway
> >> surface seems a bit too far-fetched.
> >
> > https://www.pci.org/PCI/Design_Resources/Building_Engineering_Resources/Design_for_Blast_Resistance.aspx#:~:text=Precast%20concrete%20provides%20excellent%20Anti,structures%20providing%20protection%20and%20resiliency.
> >
> > Not all concrete is created equal. Use your common sense. In addition to
> > constant exposure to highly corrosive influences in the sea water and air,
> > the bridge components need to be about the strongest available to handle the
> > dead load of the bridge itself as well as the live load of fast moving heavy
> > vehicles. Those piers they have are positively HUGE. The equivalent weight
> > of TNT explosives required to knock stuff like that down is an integer
> > multiple of the weight of the concrete- so that makes it a really large
> > amount.
> Had you been less aggressive in your quoting, you'd have found:
> I bet it's a mini-sub firing stealth missiles from the north. Same type
> ---------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> that hit the Saky airfield.
> I.e., something that came OUT of the water to target the structures
> atop the piers:
> AND cause the blast damage to appear on the TOP of the roadway

There is this:

https://news.usni.org/2022/10/11/suspected-ukrainian-explosive-sea-drone-made-from-jet-ski-parts

UK gave them some underwater drones, but they were strictly to be used for mine clearing.

Ukraine Navy otherwise doesn't have any submarines.

On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 11:21:59 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 10/15/2022 10:05 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > On 14/10/2022 17:11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 11:45:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> >>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 7:27:19 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4,
> >>>> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> >>>>> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>>> news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:
> >
> >>>>>> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
> >>>>>> air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
> >>>>>> answers.
> >>>>> If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
> >>>>> retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.
> >>>> I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an
> >>>> autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for 8 years
> >>>> now.
> >>>>
> >>>> The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can get. It's
> >>>> not some hastily set up field station of a retreating army.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)
> >>> And the Crimea bridge is the most heavily protected site in the world, with
> >>> many air defence systems in place, if only they are effective.
> >>
> >> You need a big bomb to disable the bridge. The experts are estimating about
> >> 50,000 lbs was used, and that's about right. A missile is comparatively a
> >> firecracker compared to that- maybe create a pothole.
> >>
> >> The bridge is not vital. It was only recently completed. A big barge ferry is
> >> good enough for them.
> >
> > Conjecture in the UK is that the bomb was delivered either by boat, barge or
> > aquatic drone see the second video on this page. There is a wake near one of
> > the supports just before the big bang.
> >
> > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63192757
> >
> > Even on the first video you see substantial amounts of water raining down from
> > the right which would be consistent with an explosion underneath the road deck
> > (exploiting the design of a bridge to damage it). Gravity acts downwards so
> > sudden upwards forces can do a lot more damage to the structure on the recoil
> > when it falls back down again.
> Big signs of fire/explosion on top of the roadway -- yet
> none underneath??

Underside was all charred too.

>
> <https://twitter.com/N_Waters89/status/1579196213156810752/photo/2>
> > I doubt if anything even using military high explosives that could be
> > manhandled off the back of a lorry would give such a very big bang.
> >

On 10/15/2022 8:33 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 11:21:59 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>> On 10/15/2022 10:05 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> On 14/10/2022 17:11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 11:45:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 7:27:19 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 10:14:41 AM UTC-4,
>>>>>> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>>>>>>> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:2552e00e-d982-4e98...@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Does Ukraine have some Stealth Missiles not detected by Russian
>>>>>>>> air defence? We might have to wait until the war is over to get
>>>>>>>> answers.
>>>>>>> If you think that Russia has good detection systems set up as they
>>>>>>> retreat, you are even more stupid than I originally estimated.
>>>>>> I'm pretty sure they're not going to retreat from Crimea. It's an
>>>>>> autonomous republic within the Russian Federation and has been for 8 years
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Saky airbase is about as permanent an installation as you can get. It's
>>>>>> not some hastily set up field station of a retreating army.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saky_(air_base)
>>>>> And the Crimea bridge is the most heavily protected site in the world, with
>>>>> many air defence systems in place, if only they are effective.
>>>>
>>>> You need a big bomb to disable the bridge. The experts are estimating about
>>>> 50,000 lbs was used, and that's about right. A missile is comparatively a
>>>> firecracker compared to that- maybe create a pothole.
>>>>
>>>> The bridge is not vital. It was only recently completed. A big barge ferry is
>>>> good enough for them.
>>>
>>> Conjecture in the UK is that the bomb was delivered either by boat, barge or
>>> aquatic drone see the second video on this page. There is a wake near one of
>>> the supports just before the big bang.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63192757
>>>
>>> Even on the first video you see substantial amounts of water raining down from
>>> the right which would be consistent with an explosion underneath the road deck
>>> (exploiting the design of a bridge to damage it). Gravity acts downwards so
>>> sudden upwards forces can do a lot more damage to the structure on the recoil
>>> when it falls back down again.
>> Big signs of fire/explosion on top of the roadway -- yet
>> none underneath??
>
> Underside was all charred too.

And you know that how?

>
>>
>> <https://twitter.com/N_Waters89/status/1579196213156810752/photo/2>
>>> I doubt if anything even using military high explosives that could be
>>> manhandled off the back of a lorry would give such a very big bang.
>>>

On 10/15/2022 8:30 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 4:08:31 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>> On 10/15/2022 8:23 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>>> On Saturday, October 15, 2022 at 10:15:10 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not an expert on high explosives but it seems like getting a sub to
>>>> navigate in a shallow sea (6-7 fathoms), undetected AND carry a munition
>>>> sufficient to cause that sort of damage AND approach from the north
>>>> (russian held territory) AND target the roadway instead of the railway AND
>>>> escape AND cause the blast damage to appear on the TOP of the roadway
>>>> surface seems a bit too far-fetched.
>>>
>>> https://www.pci.org/PCI/Design_Resources/Building_Engineering_Resources/Design_for_Blast_Resistance.aspx#:~:text=Precast%20concrete%20provides%20excellent%20Anti,structures%20providing%20protection%20and%20resiliency.
>>>
>>> Not all concrete is created equal. Use your common sense. In addition to
>>> constant exposure to highly corrosive influences in the sea water and air,
>>> the bridge components need to be about the strongest available to handle the
>>> dead load of the bridge itself as well as the live load of fast moving heavy
>>> vehicles. Those piers they have are positively HUGE. The equivalent weight
>>> of TNT explosives required to knock stuff like that down is an integer
>>> multiple of the weight of the concrete- so that makes it a really large
>>> amount.
>> Had you been less aggressive in your quoting, you'd have found:
>> I bet it's a mini-sub firing stealth missiles from the north. Same type
>> ---------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> that hit the Saky airfield.
>> I.e., something that came OUT of the water to target the structures
>> atop the piers:
>> AND cause the blast damage to appear on the TOP of the roadway
>
> There is this:
>
> https://news.usni.org/2022/10/11/suspected-ukrainian-explosive-sea-drone-made-from-jet-ski-parts
>
> UK gave them some underwater drones, but they were strictly to be used for mine clearing.
>
> Ukraine Navy otherwise doesn't have any submarines.

<https://www.coffeeordie.com/ukraine-kamikaze-drone-boats>

But, none of this is really "evidence".