On 10/9/2022 5:23 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 10/9/2022 22:19, Don Y wrote:
>> Chatting with a neighbor (circling the drain) and note the .45 sitting on
>> the kitchen counter (!).
>>
>> So, looking for more "small talk" topics (kinda hard to chit-chat
>> when everyone in the room knows about the elephant) so asked him
>> how often he goes out shooting.
>>
>> "Haven't fired it in years!"
>>
>> "Then why do you have it?"
>>
>> "Protection"
>>
>> [Very safe neighborhood and I doubt he's ever lived anyplace other
>> than in a lily-white neighborhood]
>>
>> "What are you afraid of, 'snowflakes'?"
>>
>> Afterwards, made a mental tally of all the folks I know who are gun
>> owners.  All republicans.  Got me interested in the demographics of
>> gun ownership (in the US).
>>
>> <https://news.gallup.com/poll/21496/gun-ownership-higher-among-republicans-than-democrats.aspx>
>>
>> <https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/>
>>
>> Gotta wonder what all these folks are so afraid of!  It must be a
>> terrible feeling to wonder when you are NEXT going to be victimized.
>> Sad, so many of us busy enjoying our lives instead of living in fear
>> of LOSING it (or their "stuff")!
>>
>> But, hey, maybe more republicans have past histories of being assaulted,
>> robbed, etc.?
>>
>
> I am quite far from understanding how this works in the US - have never
> lived in a country where gun ownership is something casual.
> But I would be hugely disappointed if this becomes yet another line
> of political division in the US. To an outsider, it looks like it
> is a nation built by people capable of taking care of themselves.
> Then those in power need be more polite to an armed population than
> to a disarmed one.

The people in power in America tend to treat Americans like shit! If the
goal of being an armed population was their "politeness" then it sure
didn't have the intended effect.

> How much of the good part of being able to defend yourself with a
> gun is still there I am nowhere near being able to say but it would be
> a shame if this gets lost. The gun you have may come into use once
> in 50 years but if you don't have it when you need it...

Selection bias kicks in where you hear about the people who successfully
defended themselves, but many of those who didn't tell no tales. There
are plenty of possible self-defense situations that are no-win, where a
gun can't help you. Likely many more than the ones were it can.

The best defense is to not put yourself in those situations. I tend to
feel carrying a gun engenders overconfidence in one's capabilities

On 10/9/2022 7:21 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 10/9/2022 4:00 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> Having a gun for protection is like a spare tire for your car.  Hardly
>> ever needed, but good to have if you do.
>
> That's a false analogy.  I suspect MOST people will experience a flat
> tire in their life.  And, when that happens, they likely won't be in a
> high-adrenaline, split-second fight-or-flight mode where their next
> decision can result in their -- or another's -- death.
>
> "I've got a flat.  Shit!  Now I'll have to spend the next 10-15
> minutes changing it -- and then having it serviced.  Or, call AAA
> in case my spare is ALSO flat..
I carry pepper spray in my car and on my person sometimes, I like it
because I don't feel the same hesitation in using it the way I might
with a gun.

I have my do-not-cross boundaries (like someone aggressively approaching
my driver's side door and/or attempting to reach their hands thru the
window) and if they do that they're getting hit. No hesitation. I'll let
my attorney help figure it out once I'm long gone

> [Do you carry a condom in case you bump into someone at the supermarket
> that wants to have sex with you?]

When I was a younger dude and single I sure did! No woman I've ever had
sex with for the first time ever like, informed me ahead of time "We
will be having sex tonight" when I went to her place for dinner, say.

Sometimes something happened, sometimes it didn't, but good to be
prepared! Who knows what time it'll be or if she has any when you need them

On 10/10/2022 5:45 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 10/9/2022 7:21 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> [Do you carry a condom in case you bump into someone at the supermarket

---------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>> that wants to have sex with you?]
>
> When I was a younger dude and single I sure did! No woman I've ever had sex
> with for the first time ever like, informed me ahead of time "We will be having
> sex tonight" when I went to her place for dinner, say.

How many of them did you "pick up" at the grocery store?

> Sometimes something happened, sometimes it didn't, but good to be prepared! Who
> knows what time it'll be or if she has any when you need them

Keeping a condom in your wallet for any length of time (i.e., the time
from the start of the dinner/date until its conclusion) is A Bad Idea.
Condoms don't like heat or friction (despite encountering both in their
"normal mode of operation").

Unless you're getting laid regularly, chances are, that condom has lost
some of its integrity. Which means greater chance of breaking.

[You can buy a *case* designed to store/carry condoms -- but, why not just
slip one into your pocket BEFORE the date and assume the cost of discarding
it, unused, if that's the case?]

<https://www.amazon.com/Condom-Case-Discreet-Stylish-Carrier/dp/B003M72CD6>

(just a "for example", not a recommendation)

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 20:18:43 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

>On 10/10/2022 8:03 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 20:01:11 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/10/2022 12:03 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 12:19:00 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Chatting with a neighbor (circling the drain) and note the .45 sitting on
>>>>> the kitchen counter (!).
>>>>>
>>>>> So, looking for more "small talk" topics (kinda hard to chit-chat
>>>>> when everyone in the room knows about the elephant) so asked him
>>>>> how often he goes out shooting.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Haven't fired it in years!"
>>>>>
>>>>> "Then why do you have it?"
>>>>>
>>>>> "Protection"
>>>>>
>>>>> [Very safe neighborhood and I doubt he's ever lived anyplace other
>>>>> than in a lily-white neighborhood]
>>>>>
>>>>> "What are you afraid of, 'snowflakes'?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Afterwards, made a mental tally of all the folks I know who are gun
>>>>> owners. All republicans. Got me interested in the demographics of
>>>>> gun ownership (in the US).
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://news.gallup.com/poll/21496/gun-ownership-higher-among-republicans-than-democrats.aspx>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gotta wonder what all these folks are so afraid of! It must be a
>>>>> terrible feeling to wonder when you are NEXT going to be victimized.
>>>>> Sad, so many of us busy enjoying our lives instead of living in fear
>>>>> of LOSING it (or their "stuff")!
>>>>>
>>>>> But, hey, maybe more republicans have past histories of being assaulted,
>>>>> robbed, etc.?
>>>>
>>>> This is sort of related:
>>>>
>>>> https://unherd.com/thepost/why-are-liberals-less-happy-than-conservatives/
>>>>
>>>> If you were to arbitrarily divide the US population into liberal and
>>>> conservative tribes, there would be fundamental personality and
>>>> demographic differences.
>>>>
>>>> The happiest group is conservative women. Least happy, liberal women.
>>>>
>>>> Conservatives tend to be in more traditional monagamous family
>>>> relations, with wives and kids in standalone houses (not singles in
>>>> high-rise apartments) so maybe the guys feel like defenders.
>>>
>>> If I were gay or transsexual I'd definitely carry a lot of weapons
>>> around, there are plenty of conservatives out there looking to "defend
>>> themselves" against the uppity gays.
>>
>> The big threat is STDs, not yahoos.
>>
>
>Explains why many conservatives want to outlaw condoms I suppose..

Cite?

You imagine populations who didn't exist so you can deplore them.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:27:28 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

>John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>news:dr86khhgkhbnd0sja72uvsg2vavtiq4kjb@4ax.com:
>
>>
>> That anti-gun idiot Alec Baldwin has made a career pretending to kill
>> people with guns. Except the time he actually did.
>>
>
>With a tampered with load in a gun that was never supposed to be within
>a mile of a live round.

He didn't check the gun but he didn't pull the trigger. It pulled
itself.

On 10/10/22 20:29, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:27:28 -0000 (UTC),
> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>
>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>> news:dr86khhgkhbnd0sja72uvsg2vavtiq4kjb@4ax.com:
>>
>>> That anti-gun idiot Alec Baldwin has made a career pretending to
>>> kill people with guns. Except the time he actually did.
>>>
>> With a tampered with load in a gun that was never supposed to be
>> within a mile of a live round.
>
> He didn't check the gun but he didn't pull the trigger. It pulled
> itself.

"I had a great gun, a Ruger stainless steel Police Special revolver, a
beautiful piece of machining, but someone broke into my apartment and
stole it."

We don't know what your negligence there may have caused.
And "your" great gun is still out there somewhere.

On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 7:54:08 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <hjf8khlkvmc434eb4...@4ax.com>,
> jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com says...
> >
> > >[Very safe neighborhood and I doubt he's ever lived anyplace other
> > >than in a lily-white neighborhood]
> > >
> >
> >
> Just saw on the news where 2 teenagers were shot outside a congressmans
> house. I would think he would live in a neighborhood that would be
> called safe.

LOL! We are talking DC, right? I think you don't know much about DC.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:25:22 AM UTC-4, corvid wrote:
> On 10/10/22 20:29, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:27:28 -0000 (UTC),
> > DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> >
> >> John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
> >> news:dr86khhgkhbnd0sja...@4ax.com:
> >>
> >>> That anti-gun idiot Alec Baldwin has made a career pretending to
> >>> kill people with guns. Except the time he actually did.
> >>>
> >> With a tampered with load in a gun that was never supposed to be
> >> within a mile of a live round.
> >
> > He didn't check the gun but he didn't pull the trigger. It pulled
> > itself.
> "I had a great gun, a Ruger stainless steel Police Special revolver, a
> beautiful piece of machining, but someone broke into my apartment and
> stole it."
> We don't know what your negligence there may have caused.
> And "your" great gun is still out there somewhere.

He doesn't feel the need to be responsible for that obviously.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 21:25:13 -0700, corvid <bl@ckb.ird> wrote:

>On 10/10/22 20:29, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:27:28 -0000 (UTC),
>> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>> news:dr86khhgkhbnd0sja72uvsg2vavtiq4kjb@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> That anti-gun idiot Alec Baldwin has made a career pretending to
>>>> kill people with guns. Except the time he actually did.
>>>>
>>> With a tampered with load in a gun that was never supposed to be
>>> within a mile of a live round.
>>
>> He didn't check the gun but he didn't pull the trigger. It pulled
>> itself.
>
>
>"I had a great gun, a Ruger stainless steel Police Special revolver, a
>beautiful piece of machining, but someone broke into my apartment and
>stole it."
>
>We don't know what your negligence there may have caused.
>And "your" great gun is still out there somewhere.

Stainless steel. Won't rust.

On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 1:05:27 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 21:25:13 -0700, corvid <b...@ckb.ird> wrote:
>
> >On 10/10/22 20:29, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:27:28 -0000 (UTC),
> >> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> >>
> >>> John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
> >>> news:dr86khhgkhbnd0sja...@4ax.com:
> >>>
> >>>> That anti-gun idiot Alec Baldwin has made a career pretending to
> >>>> kill people with guns. Except the time he actually did.
> >>>>
> >>> With a tampered with load in a gun that was never supposed to be
> >>> within a mile of a live round.
> >>
> >> He didn't check the gun but he didn't pull the trigger. It pulled
> >> itself.
> >
> >
> >"I had a great gun, a Ruger stainless steel Police Special revolver, a
> >beautiful piece of machining, but someone broke into my apartment and
> >stole it."
> >
> >We don't know what your negligence there may have caused.
> >And "your" great gun is still out there somewhere.
> Stainless steel. Won't rust.

That's not a generally true statement. Lots of stainless steels will rust, depending on the environment. Stainless steel is not a single material. Some are even magnetic.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 10/10/2022 11:26 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 20:18:43 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On 10/10/2022 8:03 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 20:01:11 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/10/2022 12:03 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 12:19:00 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chatting with a neighbor (circling the drain) and note the .45 sitting on
>>>>>> the kitchen counter (!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, looking for more "small talk" topics (kinda hard to chit-chat
>>>>>> when everyone in the room knows about the elephant) so asked him
>>>>>> how often he goes out shooting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Haven't fired it in years!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Then why do you have it?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Protection"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [Very safe neighborhood and I doubt he's ever lived anyplace other
>>>>>> than in a lily-white neighborhood]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "What are you afraid of, 'snowflakes'?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Afterwards, made a mental tally of all the folks I know who are gun
>>>>>> owners. All republicans. Got me interested in the demographics of
>>>>>> gun ownership (in the US).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://news.gallup.com/poll/21496/gun-ownership-higher-among-republicans-than-democrats.aspx>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gotta wonder what all these folks are so afraid of! It must be a
>>>>>> terrible feeling to wonder when you are NEXT going to be victimized.
>>>>>> Sad, so many of us busy enjoying our lives instead of living in fear
>>>>>> of LOSING it (or their "stuff")!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, hey, maybe more republicans have past histories of being assaulted,
>>>>>> robbed, etc.?
>>>>>
>>>>> This is sort of related:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://unherd.com/thepost/why-are-liberals-less-happy-than-conservatives/
>>>>>
>>>>> If you were to arbitrarily divide the US population into liberal and
>>>>> conservative tribes, there would be fundamental personality and
>>>>> demographic differences.
>>>>>
>>>>> The happiest group is conservative women. Least happy, liberal women.
>>>>>
>>>>> Conservatives tend to be in more traditional monagamous family
>>>>> relations, with wives and kids in standalone houses (not singles in
>>>>> high-rise apartments) so maybe the guys feel like defenders.
>>>>
>>>> If I were gay or transsexual I'd definitely carry a lot of weapons
>>>> around, there are plenty of conservatives out there looking to "defend
>>>> themselves" against the uppity gays.
>>>
>>> The big threat is STDs, not yahoos.
>>>
>>
>> Explains why many conservatives want to outlaw condoms I suppose..
>
> Cite?
>
> You imagine populations who didn't exist so you can deplore them.
>

Guess you've never heard of the Catholic Church?

On 10/10/22 22:05, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 21:25:13 -0700, corvid <bl@ckb.ird> wrote:
>
>> On 10/10/22 20:29, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:27:28 -0000 (UTC),
>>> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>> news:dr86khhgkhbnd0sja72uvsg2vavtiq4kjb@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> That anti-gun idiot Alec Baldwin has made a career pretending
>>>>> to kill people with guns. Except the time he actually did.
>>>>>
>>>> With a tampered with load in a gun that was never supposed to
>>>> be within a mile of a live round.
>>>
>>> He didn't check the gun but he didn't pull the trigger. It
>>> pulled itself.
>>
>>
>> "I had a great gun, a Ruger stainless steel Police Special
>> revolver, a beautiful piece of machining, but someone broke into my
>> apartment and stole it."
>>
>> We don't know what your negligence there may have caused. And
>> "your" great gun is still out there somewhere.
>
> Stainless steel. Won't rust.

It's sublimating at breakneck speed.

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
news:olo9kh1ppmccj4fo1mi4s0n2s57s9jm4f7@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 17:27:28 -0000 (UTC),
> DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
>
>>John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>news:dr86khhgkhbnd0sja72uvsg2vavtiq4kjb@4ax.com:
>>
>>>
>>> That anti-gun idiot Alec Baldwin has made a career pretending to
>>> kill people with guns. Except the time he actually did.
>>>
>>
>>With a tampered with load in a gun that was never supposed to be
>>within a mile of a live round.
>
> He didn't check the gun but he didn't pull the trigger. It pulled
> itself.
>
You obviously have no clue how a single action 1870s era revolver
operates. I rate you at a very low mechanical aptitude level.

That aside from your blatant abject Trump Cult idiocy.

Actors do not 'check' the guns they are GIVEN for a scene in a
movie. It is, in fact, not even their job. They rightfully presume
that no nefarious act was committed by those whom ARE supposed to
check it, and we know that was NOT done, and the "contaminated" box
of bullets were magically also 'not checked' either, and the dope
loading the gun would have known as part of his job what a spent
actuator cap loks like. You know, the TRUMP CULT jackass first
director's assistant who handed him the gun as he declared it clean.

In other words, you could not be more stupid or Trumpian if you
tried, you pathetic loser putz motherfucker.

Tell, us, Johnny TrumpTard... do you think the election was
fraudulent? Easy question, TrumpPunk. Let's hear it.

On 10/10/22 12:00 AM, Don Y wrote:
> On 10/9/2022 11:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> On 10/9/22 12:19 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>> Chatting with a neighbor (circling the drain) and note the .45
>>> sitting on
>>> the kitchen counter (!).
>>>
>>> So, looking for more "small talk" topics (kinda hard to chit-chat
>>> when everyone in the room knows about the elephant) so asked him
>>> how often he goes out shooting.
>>>
>>> "Haven't fired it in years!"
>>>
>>> "Then why do you have it?"
>>>
>>> "Protection"
>>>
>>> [Very safe neighborhood and I doubt he's ever lived anyplace other
>>> than in a lily-white neighborhood]
>>>
>>> "What are you afraid of, 'snowflakes'?"
>>>
>>> Afterwards, made a mental tally of all the folks I know who are gun
>>> owners.  All republicans. ...
>>
>> https://ktla.com/news/local-news/2-arrested-in-gun-theft-from-karen-basss-home-lat/
>>
>>
>> Now you know a democrat.
>
> Actually, no, I don't.  (I'm amused to wonder how you think I would
> know the individual; do you have any insights into this week's
> lottery numbers?)
>
> Had you carefully read my post you would see that I never claimed
> democrats DON'T own guns; in fact, the two links try to put a number
> on the prevalence of gun ownership between democrats and republicans.
>
> But, you could have read that for yourself, right?
>

Quote from your original post "made a mental tally of all the folks I
know who are gun owners"

To me, "know" means knowing via any path, whether by press, by their
actions, or personally. So you didn't know who Karen Bass is and didn't
follow the news?

Besides, I personally know numerous democrats who are gun owners despite
the fact that most of my friends lean republican. If you don't know any
personally I find that hard to believe.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 10/12/2022 12:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
> On 10/10/22 12:00 AM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 10/9/2022 11:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>> On 10/9/22 12:19 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>>> Chatting with a neighbor (circling the drain) and note the .45 sitting on
>>>> the kitchen counter (!).
>>>>
>>>> So, looking for more "small talk" topics (kinda hard to chit-chat
>>>> when everyone in the room knows about the elephant) so asked him
>>>> how often he goes out shooting.
>>>>
>>>> "Haven't fired it in years!"
>>>>
>>>> "Then why do you have it?"
>>>>
>>>> "Protection"
>>>>
>>>> [Very safe neighborhood and I doubt he's ever lived anyplace other
>>>> than in a lily-white neighborhood]
>>>>
>>>> "What are you afraid of, 'snowflakes'?"
>>>>
>>>> Afterwards, made a mental tally of all the folks I know who are gun
>>>> owners.  All republicans. ...
>>>
>>> https://ktla.com/news/local-news/2-arrested-in-gun-theft-from-karen-basss-home-lat/
>>>
>>> Now you know a democrat.
>>
>> Actually, no, I don't.  (I'm amused to wonder how you think I would
>> know the individual; do you have any insights into this week's
>> lottery numbers?)
>>
>> Had you carefully read my post you would see that I never claimed
>> democrats DON'T own guns; in fact, the two links try to put a number
>> on the prevalence of gun ownership between democrats and republicans.
>>
>> But, you could have read that for yourself, right?
>
> Quote from your original post "made a mental tally of all the folks I know who
> are gun owners"
>
> To me, "know" means knowing via any path, whether by press, by their actions,
> or personally. So you didn't know who Karen Bass is and didn't follow the news?

No, "know" is as in "have personal experience with soas to be able to
understand the environment in which they live, their belief systems,
past history, etc."

Some "conceptual person" doesn't give me any insight as to WHY they own
a gun (and why others might NOT). So, it's a useless "thought exercise".
Look to your immediate experiences before reaching out to try to
understand the world, as a whole. You likely know more about your
immediate surroundings and experiences than anonymous/remote experiences.

By your argument, I should be able to ASSUME that there is an underprivileged
black person who lives in a troubled neighborhood and, as such, has opted
to resort to gun ownership to protect himself from a VERY REAL THREAT.

AND, is a democrat.

(But, hey, don't the two references I cited *suggest* that is likely the
case for someone in a country of 300 million? That i've not yet got around
to meeting, in person??)

> Besides, I personally know numerous democrats who are gun owners despite the
> fact that most of my friends lean republican. If you don't know any personally
> I find that hard to believe.

You will note that I cited information that clearly indicates "Democrats
own guns". Presumably, independents, as well. So, I wasn't disputing that
fact (as *I* had brought it forward).

How difficult to believe you find my assertion is immaterial; it represents the
facts of my life situation. Would I be equally valid to assume you know a
rapist -- just because there *are* rapists in California? (are you **sure**
your neighbor isn't one?)

I also don't know any murderers, drug dealers, bigamists, ex-convicts. That
doesn't mean that there aren't people that I *do* know who actually ARE each
of these things. But, I don't know any of them to be as such.

Would you like to dispute those claims, as well?

I don't rely on past experiences of seeing weapons in homes to know who owns
(or, at least ADMITS to owning) a weapon. That's deduced from conversations
over decades and the assumption that they STILL own their weapons (of course,
it is entirely possible that they are lying when they claim such so should
I only claim to know of folks whom I've actually seen the weapons, first
hand?).

On Thursday, October 13, 2022 at 1:58:44 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> On 10/12/2022 12:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
> > On 10/10/22 12:00 AM, Don Y wrote:
> >> On 10/9/2022 11:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
> >>> On 10/9/22 12:19 PM, Don Y wrote:
> >>>> Chatting with a neighbor (circling the drain) and note the .45 sitting on
> >>>> the kitchen counter (!).
> >>>>
> >>>> So, looking for more "small talk" topics (kinda hard to chit-chat
> >>>> when everyone in the room knows about the elephant) so asked him
> >>>> how often he goes out shooting.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Haven't fired it in years!"
> >>>>
> >>>> "Then why do you have it?"
> >>>>
> >>>> "Protection"
> >>>>
> >>>> [Very safe neighborhood and I doubt he's ever lived anyplace other
> >>>> than in a lily-white neighborhood]
> >>>>
> >>>> "What are you afraid of, 'snowflakes'?"
> >>>>
> >>>> Afterwards, made a mental tally of all the folks I know who are gun
> >>>> owners. All republicans. ...
> >>>
> >>> https://ktla.com/news/local-news/2-arrested-in-gun-theft-from-karen-basss-home-lat/
> >>>
> >>> Now you know a democrat.
> >>
> >> Actually, no, I don't. (I'm amused to wonder how you think I would
> >> know the individual; do you have any insights into this week's
> >> lottery numbers?)
> >>
> >> Had you carefully read my post you would see that I never claimed
> >> democrats DON'T own guns; in fact, the two links try to put a number
> >> on the prevalence of gun ownership between democrats and republicans.
> >>
> >> But, you could have read that for yourself, right?
> >
> > Quote from your original post "made a mental tally of all the folks I know who
> > are gun owners"
> >
> > To me, "know" means knowing via any path, whether by press, by their actions,
> > or personally. So you didn't know who Karen Bass is and didn't follow the news?
> No, "know" is as in "have personal experience with soas to be able to
> understand the environment in which they live, their belief systems,
> past history, etc."
>
> Some "conceptual person" doesn't give me any insight as to WHY they own
> a gun (and why others might NOT). So, it's a useless "thought exercise".
> Look to your immediate experiences before reaching out to try to
> understand the world, as a whole. You likely know more about your
> immediate surroundings and experiences than anonymous/remote experiences.
>
> By your argument, I should be able to ASSUME that there is an underprivileged
> black person who lives in a troubled neighborhood and, as such, has opted
> to resort to gun ownership to protect himself from a VERY REAL THREAT.
>
> AND, is a democrat.
>
> (But, hey, don't the two references I cited *suggest* that is likely the
> case for someone in a country of 300 million? That i've not yet got around
> to meeting, in person??)
> > Besides, I personally know numerous democrats who are gun owners despite the
> > fact that most of my friends lean republican. If you don't know any personally
> > I find that hard to believe.
> You will note that I cited information that clearly indicates "Democrats
> own guns". Presumably, independents, as well. So, I wasn't disputing that
> fact (as *I* had brought it forward).
>
> How difficult to believe you find my assertion is immaterial; it represents the
> facts of my life situation. Would I be equally valid to assume you know a
> rapist -- just because there *are* rapists in California? (are you **sure**
> your neighbor isn't one?)
>
> I also don't know any murderers, drug dealers, bigamists, ex-convicts. That
> doesn't mean that there aren't people that I *do* know who actually ARE each
> of these things. But, I don't know any of them to be as such.
>
> Would you like to dispute those claims, as well?
>
> I don't rely on past experiences of seeing weapons in homes to know who owns
> (or, at least ADMITS to owning) a weapon. That's deduced from conversations
> over decades and the assumption that they STILL own their weapons (of course,
> it is entirely possible that they are lying when they claim such so should
> I only claim to know of folks whom I've actually seen the weapons, first
> hand?).

Here is an astonishing fact: Democrats are more likely to be victims of violent crimes than Republicans. They are poorer and live in more dangerous neighborhoods. Consequently, they are more likely to be interested in self-defense than Republicans.

Defensive gun use isn't a myth - it is a FACT:
https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/

A gun is a tool just like any other. Now, I wouldn't give a Skil-Saw to an ignorant person w/o training and supervision - the same goes for guns.

You can own guns for many years and not have to use them. But one day you may. My brother was a cop on the SFPD for many years, and, of course, carried a gun every day. He never had to use it for many years until one day there was a hostage situation in a high-rise office building. He was close to the scene and responded. He talked about going up the stairwell as workers were streaming downwards in shear terror. As he got closer to the floor in question he could smell the cordite (gun powder). Entering the floor he saw the problem: one person was already dead on the floor and bleeding, a woman was being held at gun-point by the perp with a shotgun. The shotgun had a wire loop tied to it, which was around the head of the woman, and the perp had his finger on the trigger. The perp was the ex-boyfriend who was convinced that his ex-girl friend was screwing her supervisor (the dead guy). He was screaming stuff that was pretty much incomprehensible. There were FOUR cops there by then, each with their service revolver pointed at the perp. One was trying to talk the guy into releasing his ex-girl friend, but he wasn't listening. Then, there was a distraction (door slam or something), the perp looked away to see what it was and briefly took his finger off of the trigger; all four cops, including my brother, fired simultaneously, killing the perp. END OF STORY! This was the ONE AND ONLY time my brother had to use his gun in anger during his entire career.

I don't care what you think you would do in this situation, or if you will ever be in the situation. It doesn't matter. But DON'T YOU EVER decide FOR ME!!!!

On 10/20/22 20:37, Flyspeck wrote:

> A gun is a tool just like any other. Now, I wouldn't give a Skil-Saw
> to an ignorant person w/o training and supervision - the same goes
> for guns.

YOU DON'T decide who should handle SkilSaws or guns.

> I don't care what you think you would do in this situation, or if
> you will ever be in the situation. It doesn't matter. But DON'T YOU
> EVER decide FOR ME!!!!

The ignorant person above uses your argument, and enjoys the same
privileges.

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 10:25:53 PM UTC-6, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> In other words they couldn't find much evidence of defensive gun use
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

Meanwhile, these guys post videos almost every day of firearms being successfully used defensively:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEdWbBn4yMU&list=PLr9w0uxRdNytiQ9rTHfaG_soJSLFXvFPt
(it is an excellent channel by the way for anybody interested in increasing their self-defense skills)

Look, we can't deny that guns are dangerous for society. The problem with the US is the sheer amount of guns available. It is too late to ban guns here...that cow left the barn years ago. How would they do that anyway? Go house to house? I have yet to hear about logical gun control measures that wouldn't disarm lawful citizens while leaving violent criminals armed. Never mind the constitutional issues involved. To put it in perspective, you also need to understand the mindset of many Americans. Very much a do-it-yourself pioneer-minded society (not all or even most, but it is a strong thread that runs through the people here).

People who haven't spent much time in the "bad" parts of the US just don't seem to understand. Our media does not give an accurate picture of our society. With the recent cuts to law enforcement and the rising violent crime, self-defense is more important than ever.

Pointing out rednecks that believe ridiculous things or conservatives that spout nonsense (a common tactic of left-leaners) doesn't necessarily make responsible gun owners wrong. Guilt by association and all that...

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 10:50:55 PM UTC-7, corvid wrote:
> On 10/20/22 20:37, Flyspeck wrote:
>
> > A gun is a tool just like any other. Now, I wouldn't give a Skil-Saw
> > to an ignorant person w/o training and supervision - the same goes
> > for guns.
> YOU DON'T decide who should handle SkilSaws or guns.

If it is MY saw or gun I sure as hell do.

> > I don't care what you think you would do in this situation, or if
> > you will ever be in the situation. It doesn't matter. But DON'T YOU
> > EVER decide FOR ME!!!!
> The ignorant person above uses your argument, and enjoys the same
> privileges.

Hey, that IS the argument that pro-abortion people use.

On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 6:37:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 7:45:02 AM UTC+11, DemonicTubes wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 10:25:53 PM UTC-6, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > In other words they couldn't find much evidence of defensive gun use
> >
> > Meanwhile, these guys post videos almost every day of firearms being successfully used defensively:
> <snipped gun trade commercials
>
> Hollywood did the same for years
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Wish_(film_series)
>
> The people that sell guns were delighted, and presumably financed the sequels.
>
> > (it is an excellent channel by the way for anybody interested in increasing their self-defense skills).
>
> And making it more likely that their next attempted suicide will succeed - which does hapen to be the major cost of gun ownership.

South Korea has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, but also one of the LOWEST gun ownership rates, proving that guns have NOTHING to do with suicide (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country).

> > Look, we can't deny that guns are dangerous for society. The problem with the US is the sheer amount of guns available. It is too late to ban guns here...that cow left the barn years ago. How would they do that anyway? Go house to house?
> After the Port Arthur massacre in Australian the government ran a gun buy back scheme.

This was a gun CONFISCATION scheme that was improperly called a buy-back.

On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 9:13:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 1:49:02 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 10:50:55 PM UTC-7, corvid wrote:
> > > On 10/20/22 20:37, Flyspeck wrote:
> > >
> > > > A gun is a tool just like any other. Now, I wouldn't give a Skil-Saw
> > > > to an ignorant person w/o training and supervision - the same goes
> > > > for guns.
> > > YOU DON'T decide who should handle SkilSaws or guns.
> >
> > If it is MY saw or gun I sure as hell do.
> And suffer the consequences if you put them in the hands of unskilled or irresponsible people. Electing Donald Trump is a prime example.
> > > > I don't care what you think you would do in this situation, or if you will ever be in the situation. It doesn't matter. But DON'T YOU EVER decide FOR ME!!!!
> > >
> > > The ignorant person above uses your argument, and enjoys the same privileges.
> >
> > Hey, that IS the argument that pro-abortion people use.
> So what?
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

Hey Bozo, if you CAN'T see the irony I am helpless to guide you to the light.

On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 9:28:32 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 1:58:08 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 6:37:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 7:45:02 AM UTC+11, DemonicTubes wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 10:25:53 PM UTC-6, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > In other words they couldn't find much evidence of defensive gun use
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile, these guys post videos almost every day of firearms being successfully used defensively:
> > > <snipped gun trade commercials >
> > >
> > > Hollywood did the same for years
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Wish_(film_series)
> > >
> > > The people that sell guns were delighted, and presumably financed the sequels.
> > >
> > > > (it is an excellent channel by the way for anybody interested in increasing their self-defense skills).
> > >
> > > And making it more likely that their next attempted suicide will succeed - which does happen to be the major cost of gun ownership.
> > South Korea has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, but also one of the LOWEST gun ownership rates, proving that guns have NOTHING to do with suicide (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country).
> It doesn't prove anything of the sort.
>
> Anybody who uses a gun to kill themselves demonstrates that a gun can have quite a lot to do with a particular suicide.
>
> The problem is that attempted suicide by gun succeeds about 90% of the time. Most other methods only have a 10% success rate.
> > > > Look, we can't deny that guns are dangerous for society. The problem with the US is the sheer amount of guns available. It is too late to ban guns here...that cow left the barn years ago. How would they do that anyway? Go house to house?
> >
> > > After the Port Arthur massacre in Australian the government ran a gun buy back scheme.
> >
> > This was a gun CONFISCATION scheme that was improperly called a buy-back.
> The gun possession laws were changed at the same time, and quite a few of the guns bought back had become illegal, so the buy-backs were coupled with gun law amnesties, but it wasn't a gun confiscation scheme. Nobody bothered to do house to house searches to catch up with the hold-outs.
>
> People who made it obvious that they had guns when they shouldn't presumably did get chased up, but there was never a lot of fuss made about doing it.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

HA HA HA HA! Gun confiscation by another name. IF you didn't turn it in you became an outlaw, RIGHT?

On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 10:29:20 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 4:16:41 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 9:13:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 1:49:02 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 10:50:55 PM UTC-7, corvid wrote:
> > > > > On 10/20/22 20:37, Flyspeck wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > A gun is a tool just like any other. Now, I wouldn't give a Skil-Saw
> > > > > > to an ignorant person w/o training and supervision - the same goes
> > > > > > for guns.
> > > > > YOU DON'T decide who should handle SkilSaws or guns.
> > > >
> > > > If it is MY saw or gun I sure as hell do.
> > >
> > > And suffer the consequences if you put them in the hands of unskilled or irresponsible people. Electing Donald Trump is a prime example.
> > >
> > > > > > I don't care what you think you would do in this situation, or if you will ever be in the situation. It doesn't matter. But DON'T YOU EVER decide FOR ME!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > The ignorant person above uses your argument, and enjoys the same privileges.
> > > >
> > > > Hey, that IS the argument that pro-abortion people use.
> >
> > > So what?
> >
> > Hey, if you CAN'T see the irony I am helpless to guide you to the light.
>
> Gnatguy imagines that he "understands" quite a lot of subjects where he is clearly pig-ignorant.
>
> The "light" to which he thinks he is guiding me is merely one more of his addled delusions.
>
> Gantguy does have absolute confidence in the correctness of his half-baked delusions. He's much too dim to imagine that he could ever be wrong.
>
> It's odd that this over-confidence hasn't killed him already, but not every potential Darwin-award winner earns his deserved reward. It is unfair to the rest of us.
>
> --
> Bill Sloman

See Bozo, you PROVE MY POINT!

On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 10:24:23 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 2:56:58 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 9:28:32 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 1:58:08 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 6:37:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 7:45:02 AM UTC+11, DemonicTubes wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 10:25:53 PM UTC-6, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > > > In other words they couldn't find much evidence of defensive gun use
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Meanwhile, these guys post videos almost every day of firearms being successfully used defensively:
> > > > > <snipped gun trade commercials >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hollywood did the same for years
> > > > >
> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Wish_(film_series)
> > > > >
> > > > > The people that sell guns were delighted, and presumably financed the sequels.
> > > > >
> > > > > > (it is an excellent channel by the way for anybody interested in increasing their self-defense skills).
> > > > >
> > > > > And making it more likely that their next attempted suicide will succeed - which does happen to be the major cost of gun ownership.
> > > > South Korea has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, but also one of the LOWEST gun ownership rates, proving that guns have NOTHING to do with suicide (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country).
> > > It doesn't prove anything of the sort.
> > >
> > > Anybody who uses a gun to kill themselves demonstrates that a gun can have quite a lot to do with a particular suicide.
> > >
> > > The problem is that attempted suicide by gun succeeds about 90% of the time. Most other methods only have a 10% success rate.
> > > > > > Look, we can't deny that guns are dangerous for society. The problem with the US is the sheer amount of guns available. It is too late to ban guns here...that cow left the barn years ago. How would they do that anyway? Go house to house?
> > > >
> > > > > After the Port Arthur massacre in Australian the government ran a gun buy back scheme.
> > > >
> > > > This was a gun CONFISCATION scheme that was improperly called a buy-back.
> > >
> > > The gun possession laws were changed at the same time, and quite a few of the guns bought back had become illegal, so the buy-backs were coupled with gun law amnesties, but it wasn't a gun confiscation scheme. Nobody bothered to do house to house searches to catch up with the hold-outs.
> > >
> > > People who made it obvious that they had guns when they shouldn't presumably did get chased up, but there was never a lot of fuss made about doing it.
> >
> > HA HA HA HA! Gun confiscation by another name. IF you didn't turn it in you became an outlaw, RIGHT?
> If you turn it in, it isn't being confiscated. You can't become an outlaw until you have been identified as breaking the law, and for that to happen you'd have had to make a public display of owning a gun.That didn't seem to happen.
>
> Gnatguy wants to describe what happened in Australia in terms that suit him, but he's being just as unrealistic here as he is everywhere else.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

The guns in question are illegal to own under Australian law. Possessing said gun is a violation of the law, making the possessor a law breaker. Bozo should understand the law in his own country.

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:09:54 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 4:44:23 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 10:24:23 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Thursday, November 3, 2022 at 2:56:58 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 9:28:32 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 1:58:08 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, October 21, 2022 at 6:37:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 7:45:02 AM UTC+11, DemonicTubes wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 10:25:53 PM UTC-6, bill.....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > > > > > In other words they couldn't find much evidence of defensive gun use
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Meanwhile, these guys post videos almost every day of firearms being successfully used defensively:
> > > > > > > <snipped gun trade commercials >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hollywood did the same for years
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Wish_(film_series)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The people that sell guns were delighted, and presumably financed the sequels.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (it is an excellent channel by the way for anybody interested in increasing their self-defense skills).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And making it more likely that their next attempted suicide will succeed - which does happen to be the major cost of gun ownership.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > South Korea has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, but also one of the LOWEST gun ownership rates, proving that guns have NOTHING to do with suicide (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country).
> > > > >
> > > > > It doesn't prove anything of the sort.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anybody who uses a gun to kill themselves demonstrates that a gun can have quite a lot to do with a particular suicide.
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem is that attempted suicide by gun succeeds about 90% of the time. Most other methods only have a 10% success rate.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > Look, we can't deny that guns are dangerous for society. The problem with the US is the sheer amount of guns available. It is too late to ban guns here...that cow left the barn years ago. How would they do that anyway? Go house to house?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > After the Port Arthur massacre in Australian the government ran a gun buy back scheme.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was a gun CONFISCATION scheme that was improperly called a buy-back.
> > > > >
> > > > > The gun possession laws were changed at the same time, and quite a few of the guns bought back had become illegal, so the buy-backs were coupled with gun law amnesties, but it wasn't a gun confiscation scheme. Nobody bothered to do house to house searches to catch up with the hold-outs.
> > > > >
> > > > > People who made it obvious that they had guns when they shouldn't presumably did get chased up, but there was never a lot of fuss made about doing it.
> > > >
> > > > HA HA HA HA! Gun confiscation by another name. IF you didn't turn it in you became an outlaw, RIGHT?
> > > >
> > > If you turn it in, it isn't being confiscated. You can't become an outlaw until you have been identified as breaking the law, and for that to happen you'd have had to make a public display of owning a gun.That didn't seem to happen.
> > >
> > > Gnatguy wants to describe what happened in Australia in terms that suit him, but he's being just as unrealistic here as he is everywhere else.
> >
> > The guns in question are illegal to own under Australian law. Possessing said gun is a violation of the law, making the possessor a law breaker.
> But not necessarily an outlaw. People break the law all the time, and you have to do it publicly and ostentatiously to be recognised as a outlaw.
>
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/outlaw
>
> 1 : a person excluded from the benefit or protection of the law
> 2a : a lawless person or a fugitive from the law
> b : a person or organization under a ban or restriction
> c : one that is unconventional or rebellious
> 3 : an animal (such as a horse) that is wild and unmanageable
>
> > Bill should understand the law in his own country.
>
> Gnatguy should put in some work on understanding English. Granting his enthusiasm for misunderstanding English in ways that suit his demented point of view, we can be fairly confident that he won't.
>
> --
> Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

Hey Bozo, to own a firearm in Australia requires a license. If you take that unlicensed firearm into a public place you ARE breaking the law, whether it is noticed or not. Each state in Australia has its own laws that detail the penalty for these insults to law and order. In New South Wales, where you live, the penalty for having an unlicensed firearm in public (and not actually firing it) is imprisonment for up to TEN YEARS!