Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email

seems it still has to be confirmed today?

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:06:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
>
>seems it still has to be confirmed today?

Interesting link.

If you mean the NIF thing, it made more energy out than laser energy
in, but is wildly unlikely to ever be a practical power source.
Wall-plug efficiency is still minute, and neutrons are hard to convert
to electricity.

We did the master timing system and two generations of beam
modulators. We recently redesigned the modulators because
ultra-precise low-noise optical waveforms are needed to stably
compress a fuel pellet to fusion density using 192 laser beams, sort
of like squeezing a balloon (or a plutonium sphere.) Tokamaks have a
similar compression instability problem.

I think NIF got over unity once in a single freak shot last year that
was unexplained. Maybe with better theory (and better gear!) they can
do it repeatedly.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:48:52 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:06:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
>> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
>>
>>seems it still has to be confirmed today?
>
>Interesting link.
>
>If you mean the NIF thing, it made more energy out than laser energy
>in, but is wildly unlikely to ever be a practical power source.
>Wall-plug efficiency is still minute, and neutrons are hard to convert
>to electricity.
>
>We did the master timing system and two generations of beam
>modulators. We recently redesigned the modulators because
>ultra-precise low-noise optical waveforms are needed to stably
>compress a fuel pellet to fusion density using 192 laser beams, sort
>of like squeezing a balloon (or a plutonium sphere.) Tokamaks have a
>similar compression instability problem.
>
>I think NIF got over unity once in a single freak shot last year that
>was unexplained. Maybe with better theory (and better gear!) they can
>do it repeatedly.

A step in the right direction.

Maybe I will see a sustained reaction sometime in my life.

That's somewhere around 20 years, maybe.

boB

On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:48:52 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<ip6hphp2tl5a0kha0bs27n19hrv5jk3g0m@4ax.com>:

>On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:06:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
>> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
>>
>>seems it still has to be confirmed today?
>
>Interesting link.
>
>If you mean the NIF thing, it made more energy out than laser energy
>in, but is wildly unlikely to ever be a practical power source.
>Wall-plug efficiency is still minute, and neutrons are hard to convert
>to electricity.
>
>We did the master timing system and two generations of beam
>modulators. We recently redesigned the modulators because
>ultra-precise low-noise optical waveforms are needed to stably
>compress a fuel pellet to fusion density using 192 laser beams, sort
>of like squeezing a balloon (or a plutonium sphere.) Tokamaks have a
>similar compression instability problem.
>
>I think NIF got over unity once in a single freak shot last year that
>was unexplained. Maybe with better theory (and better gear!) they can
>do it repeatedly.

Sorry wrong link, this was the intended one:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/fusion-energy-breakthrough-by-us-scientists-boosts-clean-power-hopes/

Was also on CNN today, so must be real ;-(

If its real then its cool!

confinement fusion is noting new, look up 'Farnsworth fusor'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
kids have done it.
but break-even sure is!

On 2022-12-14 05:26, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:48:52 -0800) it happened John Larkin
> <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
> <ip6hphp2tl5a0kha0bs27n19hrv5jk3g0m@4ax.com>:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:06:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
>>> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
>>>
>>> seems it still has to be confirmed today?
>>
>> Interesting link.
>>
>> If you mean the NIF thing, it made more energy out than laser energy
>> in, but is wildly unlikely to ever be a practical power source.
>> Wall-plug efficiency is still minute, and neutrons are hard to convert
>> to electricity.
>>
>> We did the master timing system and two generations of beam
>> modulators. We recently redesigned the modulators because
>> ultra-precise low-noise optical waveforms are needed to stably
>> compress a fuel pellet to fusion density using 192 laser beams, sort
>> of like squeezing a balloon (or a plutonium sphere.) Tokamaks have a
>> similar compression instability problem.
>>
>> I think NIF got over unity once in a single freak shot last year that
>> was unexplained. Maybe with better theory (and better gear!) they can
>> do it repeatedly.
>
> Sorry wrong link, this was the intended one:
> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/fusion-energy-breakthrough-by-us-scientists-boosts-clean-power-hopes/
>
> Was also on CNN today, so must be real ;-(
>
> If its real then its cool!
>
> confinement fusion is noting new, look up 'Farnsworth fusor'
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
> kids have done it.
> but break-even sure is!
>

Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.

What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
the efficiency of the whole facility?

Jeroen Belleman

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:08:09 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
>
> seems it still has to be confirmed today?

LOL- the bat night signal lamp crafts project is a fusion energy breakthrough?

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 11:27:48 PM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:48:52 -0800) it happened John Larkin
> <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
> <ip6hphp2tl5a0kha0...@4ax.com>:
> >On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:06:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
> ><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
> >> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
> >>
> >>seems it still has to be confirmed today?
> >
> >Interesting link.
> >
> >If you mean the NIF thing, it made more energy out than laser energy
> >in, but is wildly unlikely to ever be a practical power source.
> >Wall-plug efficiency is still minute, and neutrons are hard to convert
> >to electricity.
> >
> >We did the master timing system and two generations of beam
> >modulators. We recently redesigned the modulators because
> >ultra-precise low-noise optical waveforms are needed to stably
> >compress a fuel pellet to fusion density using 192 laser beams, sort
> >of like squeezing a balloon (or a plutonium sphere.) Tokamaks have a
> >similar compression instability problem.
> >
> >I think NIF got over unity once in a single freak shot last year that
> >was unexplained. Maybe with better theory (and better gear!) they can
> >do it repeatedly.
> Sorry wrong link, this was the intended one:
> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/fusion-energy-breakthrough-by-us-scientists-boosts-clean-power-hopes/

It does no such thing. That's just another public relations news release, borderline fraud, to justify spending exorbitant sums of money with nothing to show for it. Three generations of humans have transpired in the time those people have been working this cash cow.

>
> Was also on CNN today, so must be real ;-(
>
> If its real then its cool!
>
> confinement fusion is noting new, look up 'Farnsworth fusor'
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
> kids have done it.
> but break-even sure is!

On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:44:18 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

>On 2022-12-14 05:26, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:48:52 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>> <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>> <ip6hphp2tl5a0kha0bs27n19hrv5jk3g0m@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:06:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
>>>> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
>>>>
>>>> seems it still has to be confirmed today?
>>>
>>> Interesting link.
>>>
>>> If you mean the NIF thing, it made more energy out than laser energy
>>> in, but is wildly unlikely to ever be a practical power source.
>>> Wall-plug efficiency is still minute, and neutrons are hard to convert
>>> to electricity.
>>>
>>> We did the master timing system and two generations of beam
>>> modulators. We recently redesigned the modulators because
>>> ultra-precise low-noise optical waveforms are needed to stably
>>> compress a fuel pellet to fusion density using 192 laser beams, sort
>>> of like squeezing a balloon (or a plutonium sphere.) Tokamaks have a
>>> similar compression instability problem.
>>>
>>> I think NIF got over unity once in a single freak shot last year that
>>> was unexplained. Maybe with better theory (and better gear!) they can
>>> do it repeatedly.
>>
>> Sorry wrong link, this was the intended one:
>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/fusion-energy-breakthrough-by-us-scientists-boosts-clean-power-hopes/
>>
>> Was also on CNN today, so must be real ;-(
>>
>> If its real then its cool!
>>
>> confinement fusion is noting new, look up 'Farnsworth fusor'
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
>> kids have done it.
>> but break-even sure is!
>>
>
>Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
>
>What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
>the efficiency of the whole facility?
>
>Jeroen Belleman

It's air conditioned to +- millikelvins, in Livermore CA.

Possibly the world's biggest clean room.

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

> Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
>
> What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
> the efficiency of the whole facility?
>
> Jeroen Belleman

This is not a breakthrough. The energy required to produce the laser
pulses is significant but it is ignored. See
https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/the-beamline-to-ignition-video

NIF has no way to turn the energy into electricity. This will incur
additional losses, so the overall net energy will be much less than
unity. Sabine Hossenfelder has written about this problem in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4W1g-6JiY

The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.

--
MRM

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 8:13:23 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 5:44:43 AM UTC+11, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> > Jeroen Belleman <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
> >
> > > Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
> > >
> > > What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
> > > the efficiency of the whole facility?
> > >
> > > Jeroen Belleman
> > This is not a breakthrough. The energy required to produce the laser
> > pulses is significant but it is ignored. See
> > https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/the-beamline-to-ignition-video
> >
> > NIF has no way to turn the energy into electricity. This will incur
> > additional losses, so the overall net energy will be much less than
> > unity. Sabine Hossenfelder has written about this problem in
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4W1g-6JiY
> >
> > The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
> > provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.
> And the usual highly radioactive fission residues that will have to be kept safely isolated for hundreds of thousands of year. What is actually fissioned is U-233.
> The difference from regular nuclear reactors is that it is formed in situ by neutron capture from Th-232. There's no U-238 around so you don't get any pjutonium
>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

I wouldn't get too excited about fusion yet: the experiment produced enough energy to power a Tesla for about one mile (305 WHr). And if you compare the cost to produce that energy vs what it costs off of the grid you would be massively disappointed. The main point was that they were able to have a net power output, a first for fusion research.

BTW, what is "pjutonium?"

On 2022-12-14 19:38, John Larkin wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:44:18 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-14 05:26, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:48:52 -0800) it happened John Larkin
>>> <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>> <ip6hphp2tl5a0kha0bs27n19hrv5jk3g0m@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:06:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
>>>>> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
>>>>>
>>>>> seems it still has to be confirmed today?
>>>>
>>>> Interesting link.
>>>>
>>>> If you mean the NIF thing, it made more energy out than laser energy
>>>> in, but is wildly unlikely to ever be a practical power source.
>>>> Wall-plug efficiency is still minute, and neutrons are hard to convert
>>>> to electricity.
>>>>
>>>> We did the master timing system and two generations of beam
>>>> modulators. We recently redesigned the modulators because
>>>> ultra-precise low-noise optical waveforms are needed to stably
>>>> compress a fuel pellet to fusion density using 192 laser beams, sort
>>>> of like squeezing a balloon (or a plutonium sphere.) Tokamaks have a
>>>> similar compression instability problem.
>>>>
>>>> I think NIF got over unity once in a single freak shot last year that
>>>> was unexplained. Maybe with better theory (and better gear!) they can
>>>> do it repeatedly.
>>>
>>> Sorry wrong link, this was the intended one:
>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/fusion-energy-breakthrough-by-us-scientists-boosts-clean-power-hopes/
>>>
>>> Was also on CNN today, so must be real ;-(
>>>
>>> If its real then its cool!
>>>
>>> confinement fusion is noting new, look up 'Farnsworth fusor'
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
>>> kids have done it.
>>> but break-even sure is!
>>>
>>
>> Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
>>
>> What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
>> the efficiency of the whole facility?
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
>
> It's air conditioned to +- millikelvins, in Livermore CA.
>
> Possibly the world's biggest clean room.
>

Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
I don't believe it.

Jeroen Belleman

On 2022-12-14 19:44, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
>>
>> What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
>> the efficiency of the whole facility?
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
>
> This is not a breakthrough. The energy required to produce the laser
> pulses is significant but it is ignored. See
> https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/the-beamline-to-ignition-video
>
> NIF has no way to turn the energy into electricity. This will incur
> additional losses, so the overall net energy will be much less than
> unity. Sabine Hossenfelder has written about this problem in
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4W1g-6JiY
>
> The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
> provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.

While I tend to agree that thorium reactors merit more attention,
I don't think that they are as ideal as you want us to believe.
There will still be radioactive waste and should one ever have
an accident causing a core dump, that probably means the end of
that reactor. A very expensive failure, even without radioactive
leaks.

The real problem is that the people who have to decide on the
energy production strategy are very susceptible to public
opinion, and the general public understands bugger all about
energy.

Jeroen Belleman

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

> While I tend to agree that thorium reactors merit more attention,
> I don't think that they are as ideal as you want us to believe.
> There will still be radioactive waste and should one ever have
> an accident causing a core dump, that probably means the end of
> that reactor. A very expensive failure, even without radioactive
> leaks.

A core dump merely means heating the salt back to temperature and pumping it
back into the reactor. How do you think they got it there in the first place.

The radioactive waste is a very small fraction of the initial load, and it
decays very quickly - in about 300 years instead of the 30,000 years in
conventional pressurized water reactors.

Many of the materials in the thorium reactor waste are very valuable. Since
the process is molten, they can be separated fairly easily. Here is one
article that describes it:

LFTR Chemical Processing & Power Conversion - Kirk Sorensen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBmk7t5K35A

--
MRM

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:19:06 AM UTC-5, Flyguy wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 8:13:23 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 5:44:43 AM UTC+11, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> > > Jeroen Belleman <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
> > > >
> > > > What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
> > > > the efficiency of the whole facility?
> > > >
> > > > Jeroen Belleman
> > > This is not a breakthrough. The energy required to produce the laser
> > > pulses is significant but it is ignored. See
> > > https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/the-beamline-to-ignition-video
> > >
> > > NIF has no way to turn the energy into electricity. This will incur
> > > additional losses, so the overall net energy will be much less than
> > > unity. Sabine Hossenfelder has written about this problem in
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4W1g-6JiY
> > >
> > > The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
> > > provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.
> > And the usual highly radioactive fission residues that will have to be kept safely isolated for hundreds of thousands of year. What is actually fissioned is U-233.
> > The difference from regular nuclear reactors is that it is formed in situ by neutron capture from Th-232. There's no U-238 around so you don't get any pjutonium
> >
> > --
> > Bill Sloman, Sydney
> I wouldn't get too excited about fusion yet: the experiment produced enough energy to power a Tesla for about one mile (305 WHr). And if you compare the cost to produce that energy vs what it costs off of the grid you would be massively disappointed. The main point was that they were able to have a net power output, a first for fusion research.
>
> BTW, what is "pjutonium?"

Total BS. Their results were either 1) data processing error, or 2) intentional fabrication. LL has been caught doing things like that in the past- numerous occasions.

Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-12-14 19:38, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:44:18 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-12-14 05:26, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:48:52 -0800) it happened John
>>>> Larkin
>>>> <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>> <ip6hphp2tl5a0kha0bs27n19hrv5jk3g0m@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:06:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
>>>>>> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> seems it still has to be confirmed today?
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting link.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you mean the NIF thing, it made more energy out than laser energy
>>>>> in, but is wildly unlikely to ever be a practical power source.
>>>>> Wall-plug efficiency is still minute, and neutrons are hard to convert
>>>>> to electricity.
>>>>>
>>>>> We did the master timing system and two generations of beam
>>>>> modulators. We recently redesigned the modulators because
>>>>> ultra-precise low-noise optical waveforms are needed to stably
>>>>> compress a fuel pellet to fusion density using 192 laser beams, sort
>>>>> of like squeezing a balloon (or a plutonium sphere.) Tokamaks have a
>>>>> similar compression instability problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think NIF got over unity once in a single freak shot last year that
>>>>> was unexplained. Maybe with better theory (and better gear!) they can
>>>>> do it repeatedly.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry wrong link, this was the intended one:
>>>>
>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/fusion-energy-breakthrough-by-us-scientists-boosts-clean-power-hopes/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Was also on CNN today, so must be real ;-(
>>>>
>>>> If its real then its cool!
>>>>
>>>> confinement fusion is noting new, look up 'Farnsworth fusor'
>>>>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
>>>>     kids have done it.
>>>> but break-even sure is!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
>>>
>>> What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
>>> the efficiency of the whole facility?
>>>
>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>
>> It's air conditioned to +- millikelvins, in Livermore CA.
>>
>> Possibly the world's biggest clean room.
>>
>
> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
> I don't believe it.
>
> Jeroen Belleman

In tabletop-sized volumes, yes. You put a box in a box, and stir the
space between with a fan. Over an entire building? Ambitious. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 10:48:25 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>> On 2022-12-14 19:38, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:44:18 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-12-14 05:26, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:48:52 -0800) it happened John
>>>>> Larkin
>>>>> <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>>> <ip6hphp2tl5a0kha0bs27n19hrv5jk3g0m@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 07:06:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fusion energy breakthrough by US scientists boosts clean power hopes
>>>>>>> https://www.instructables.com/Bat-Signal-Night-Lamp/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> seems it still has to be confirmed today?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you mean the NIF thing, it made more energy out than laser energy
>>>>>> in, but is wildly unlikely to ever be a practical power source.
>>>>>> Wall-plug efficiency is still minute, and neutrons are hard to convert
>>>>>> to electricity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We did the master timing system and two generations of beam
>>>>>> modulators. We recently redesigned the modulators because
>>>>>> ultra-precise low-noise optical waveforms are needed to stably
>>>>>> compress a fuel pellet to fusion density using 192 laser beams, sort
>>>>>> of like squeezing a balloon (or a plutonium sphere.) Tokamaks have a
>>>>>> similar compression instability problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think NIF got over unity once in a single freak shot last year that
>>>>>> was unexplained. Maybe with better theory (and better gear!) they can
>>>>>> do it repeatedly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry wrong link, this was the intended one:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/fusion-energy-breakthrough-by-us-scientists-boosts-clean-power-hopes/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Was also on CNN today, so must be real ;-(
>>>>>
>>>>> If its real then its cool!
>>>>>
>>>>> confinement fusion is noting new, look up 'Farnsworth fusor'
>>>>>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
>>>>>     kids have done it.
>>>>> but break-even sure is!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
>>>>
>>>> What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
>>>> the efficiency of the whole facility?
>>>>
>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>
>>> It's air conditioned to +- millikelvins, in Livermore CA.
>>>
>>> Possibly the world's biggest clean room.
>>>
>>
>> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
>> I don't believe it.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
>
>In tabletop-sized volumes, yes. You put a box in a box, and stir the
>space between with a fan. Over an entire building? Ambitious. ;)
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

Our gear, in the Master Oscillator Room, is spec'd to work over a
+-0.3c range, but MOR isn't as stable as the laser lines. We're in a
rack with some horrificly hot Tektronix gear, and MOR gets a lot of
tourists.

We have an oven inside our box to control the optical modulator to a
few mK.

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Dec 2022 06:24:51 -0800 (PST)) it happened Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote in
<03ed5ded-5c47-4d9b-a6ab-cef4ad5b9cb6n@googlegroups.com>:

>Total BS. Their results were either 1) data processing error, or 2) intentional
>fabrication. LL has been caught doing things like that in the past- numerous
>occasions.

My first thought it was perhaps a 'Reagan' tactic
Reagan had laser weapons ready to defeat the USSR...
Next US would claim it has a fusion powered space force ...

May still go! :-)

On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Dec 2022 12:02:04 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tneurc$1610$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>The real problem is that the people who have to decide on the
>energy production strategy are very susceptible to public
>opinion, and the general public understands bugger all about
>energy.

The Dutch government has just decided to build 2 new nuclear plants
next to the old one, then we have 3.

The plutonium will be useful to ?rule the world?
:-)

Shoot not cern have its own to power the search for the Got pqrticle?

On a sunny day (Fri, 16 Dec 2022 02:29:11 -0800 (PST)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<129378a9-c6a5-4f2a-984c-ad5de29fd707n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 5:21:12 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Dec 2022 12:02:04 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
>> <jer...@nospam.please> wrote in <tneurc$1610$1...@gioia.aioe.org>:
>> >The real problem is that the people who have to decide on the
>> >energy production strategy are very susceptible to public
>> >opinion, and the general public understands bugger all about
>> >energy.
>> The Dutch government has just decided to build 2 new nuclear plants
>> next to the old one, then we have 3.
>>
>> The plutonium will be useful to rule the world? :-)
>
>The only Dutch nuclear I knew about was used to produce radioactive isotopes for medical procedures, Whenever it had to be
>closed down for maintenance they had to import them - which was tricky for some of the short-half-life isotopes.
>
>With three you would have a more reliable supply.
>
>Any uranium-based nuclear reactor produces plutonium, but Putin has lots of plutonium and he can't even rule the Ukraine, let
>alone the world
>
>> Should not Cern have its own to power the search for the God particle?

I wrote Got particle, seem you use a spell sjeker

>There are cheaper ways of generating electric power.

Not really
Some guys are putin eh putting solar panels on the house next door here.

No sun no wind is a common event here, the first one most of the day in winter
panteltje20: ~ # sun

Current Date and Time: 16-Dec-2022 12:46 CET

Target Information ...

Location: 53.121400N, 4.099500E
Date: 16-Dec-2022
Timezone: CET
Sun directly north/south: 12:32
Twilight angle: -0.83 degrees (daylight)
Day with twilight: 08:43 to 16:21
It is: Day (or twilight)

General Information (no offset) ...

Times ... Daylight: 08:43 to 16:21
with Civil twilight: 08:03 to 17:01
with Nautical twilight: 07:17 to 17:46
with Astronomical twilight: 06:35 to 18:29

Duration ... Day length: 07:38 hours <----------------------
with civil twilight: 08:58 hours
with nautical twilight: 10:29 hours
with astronomical twilight: 11:53 hours

panteltje20: ~ # cat /usr/local/sbin/sun
sunwait report 53.121400N, 4.099500E

No wind here either now.

On 12/14/2022 10:44 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>
> Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
>
> What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
> the efficiency of the whole facility?
>
> Jeroen Belleman

Yes! The news is that they got net 3MJ out of the reactor, without
mentioning that the lasers used 300MJ from the grid. And "out of the
reactor" isn't right - it's heat in the reactor. A factor of 1k is
underestimated, looking at it from the grid.

The whole fusion thing is just going on inertia - too many people would
have to admit it's off-base to stop it. Too many people invested.

Bob Engelhardt wrote:
> On 12/14/2022 10:44 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>
>> Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
>>
>> What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
>> the efficiency of the whole facility?
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
>
>
> Yes!  The news is that they got net 3MJ out of the reactor, without
> mentioning that the lasers used 300MJ from the grid.  And "out of the
> reactor" isn't right - it's heat in the reactor.  A factor of 1k is
> underestimated, looking at it from the grid.
>
> The whole fusion thing is just going on inertia - too many people would
> have to admit it's off-base to stop it.  Too many people invested.

Well, they're up front about it--it's called "inertial confinement
fusion". ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On a sunny day (Fri, 16 Dec 2022 18:00:52 -0800 (PST)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<0a9f313f-e3f8-4c92-a4d1-48bc6f7d2572n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 10:53:02 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 16 Dec 2022 02:29:11 -0800 (PST)) it happened Anthony
>> William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote in
>> <129378a9-c6a5-4f2a...@googlegroups.com>:
>> >On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 5:21:12 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Dec 2022 12:02:04 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman <jer...@nospam.please> wrote in
>> >> <tneurc$1610$1...@gioia.aioe.org>:
>
><snip>
>
>> >> Should not Cern have its own to power the search for the God particle?
>>
>> I wrote Got particle, seem you use a spell checker.
>
>Not in that particular case. There is a history of people saying that CERN was built to find the Higgs Boson or "God particle".
>Your stupid pun played off that.
>I changed the name to make the line more easily comprehensible.

Meybe for idiots like you?

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:47:46 AM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-12-14 19:38, John Larkin wrote:

> > It's air conditioned to +- millikelvins, in Livermore CA.
> >
> > Possibly the world's biggest clean room.
> >
> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
> I don't believe it.

Why not? Other than a gas thermometer, how would you even calibrate millikelvin
sensors? Fine control of atmospheric pressure (and related adiabatic heating) is
the hardest part.

On 2022-12-16 07:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Dec 2022 12:02:04 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tneurc$1610$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>
>> The real problem is that the people who have to decide on the
>> energy production strategy are very susceptible to public
>> opinion, and the general public understands bugger all about
>> energy.
>
> The Dutch government has just decided to build 2 new nuclear plants
> next to the old one, then we have 3.

Yeah. A panicky reaction to the current crisis or maybe just political
opportunism. This does nothing for at least another 15 years and so
much can change in that interval that those reactors will likely never
be finished.

Jeroen Belleman

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 00:05:41 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:47:46 AM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>> On 2022-12-14 19:38, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> > It's air conditioned to +- millikelvins, in Livermore CA.
>> >
>> > Possibly the world's biggest clean room.
>> >
>> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
>> I don't believe it.
>
>Why not? Other than a gas thermometer, how would you even calibrate millikelvin
>sensors?

Platinum RTDs are available with millikelvin calibration. Or for just
equality and stability, calibrate a batch yourself.