John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 00:05:41 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:47:46 AM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>> On 2022-12-14 19:38, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>>> It's air conditioned to +- millikelvins, in Livermore CA.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly the world's biggest clean room.
>>>>
>>> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
>>> I don't believe it.
>>
>> Why not? Other than a gas thermometer, how would you even calibrate millikelvin
>> sensors?
>
> Platinum RTDs are available with millikelvin calibration. Or for just
> equality and stability, calibrate a batch yourself.
>

Whenever you have some bit of equipment with dissipation, you get a
convective plume. A normal semiconductor clean room has HEPA filters
covering the ceiling, with corresponding vents in the floor, so that you
get reasonably uniform, laminar downward flow of about 100 feet per
minute.

But that's with ~10 foot ceilings. I don't know if you can maintain
that in a space with a less flat aspect ratio.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

On 2022-12-17 17:07, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 00:05:41 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:47:46 AM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>> On 2022-12-14 19:38, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>>> It's air conditioned to +- millikelvins, in Livermore CA.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly the world's biggest clean room.
>>>>
>>> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
>>> I don't believe it.
>>
>> Why not? Other than a gas thermometer, how would you even calibrate millikelvin
>> sensors?
>
> Platinum RTDs are available with millikelvin calibration. Or for just
> equality and stability, calibrate a batch yourself.
>

The problem isn't in getting a measurement to that accuracy.
The problem is that a room full of equipment that dissipates
power will have warm and cool spots, even if the RTD never
gets to see them.

Jeroen Belleman

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 19:57:42 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

>On 2022-12-17 17:07, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 00:05:41 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:47:46 AM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>> On 2022-12-14 19:38, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It's air conditioned to +- millikelvins, in Livermore CA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Possibly the world's biggest clean room.
>>>>>
>>>> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
>>>> I don't believe it.
>>>
>>> Why not? Other than a gas thermometer, how would you even calibrate millikelvin
>>> sensors?
>>
>> Platinum RTDs are available with millikelvin calibration. Or for just
>> equality and stability, calibrate a batch yourself.
>>
>
>The problem isn't in getting a measurement to that accuracy.
>The problem is that a room full of equipment that dissipates
>power will have warm and cool spots, even if the RTD never
>gets to see them.
>
>Jeroen Belleman

https://lasers.llnl.gov/content/assets/docs/news/pk_fun_facts2.pdf

This says +- 0.25 c. That's also our spec for rackmount gear in the
master oscillator room. We insisted that our gear be in the bottom of
the rack so we get the fresh air ducted in from below, before all the
power hog Tek stuff heats it up.

On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Dec 2022 12:46:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tnka6b$qp2$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>On 2022-12-16 07:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Dec 2022 12:02:04 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tneurc$1610$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>
>>> The real problem is that the people who have to decide on the
>>> energy production strategy are very susceptible to public
>>> opinion, and the general public understands bugger all about
>>> energy.
>>
>> The Dutch government has just decided to build 2 new nuclear plants
>> next to the old one, then we have 3.
>
>Yeah. A panicky reaction to the current crisis or maybe just political
>opportunism. This does nothing for at least another 15 years and so
>much can change in that interval that those reactors will likely never
>be finished.

It is a wise decision, we need the power now our gas fields sort of close.
If you are real you would stop your Got a particle search as you cause climate change !!!
(Not that I believe you causing CO2 changes much).

CERN is just a job creation program, as is ITER, to keep
fresh students converted to Einsteinianism and other crap theories busy
and then saying 'we are doing something for science'
Get a real job

CERN millions in, zero out, ITER million in zero out

Pedaling on a bike with dynamo makes more electricity
HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE US MAKING REAL POWER YOU POWER SUCKER.

On 2022-12-18 10:58, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>
>
> The only Dutch reactor I knew about made medicial isotopes, not power, and if the new reactors going next to that one, they will probably make medical isotopes too.

That one is in Petten and will be replced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petten_nuclear_reactor
An energy providing one is in Borssele, where the other two will come.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borssele_Nuclear_Power_Station

A.

On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 8:07:37 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 00:05:41 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:47:46 AM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

> >> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
> >> I don't believe it.
> >
> >Why not? Other than a gas thermometer, how would you even calibrate millikelvin
> >sensors?

> Platinum RTDs are available with millikelvin calibration. Or for just
> equality and stability, calibrate a batch yourself.

That misses the point; gas thermometry is an absolute standard, tied by laws
of physics to a limiting case of dilute gas at temperature... a platinum resistor
is more complex, and would only serve as a secondary element in a temperature
calibration chain.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 12:16:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 8:07:37 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 00:05:41 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:47:46 AM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>
>> >> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
>> >> I don't believe it.
>> >
>> >Why not? Other than a gas thermometer, how would you even calibrate millikelvin
>> >sensors?
>
>> Platinum RTDs are available with millikelvin calibration. Or for just
>> equality and stability, calibrate a batch yourself.
>
>That misses the point; gas thermometry is an absolute standard, tied by laws
>of physics to a limiting case of dilute gas at temperature... a platinum resistor
>is more complex, and would only serve as a secondary element in a temperature
>calibration chain.

NIF just needs stability, not absolute temperature.

You can buy standard RTDs spec'd to 0.15c, and they are typically much
better. One could keep a bunch of them in a lab as your reference, and
test every other one against them, for mK repeatability.

Even the 1206 surface-mount thinfilm platinum RTDs are crazy accurate.
Their manufacturing must be interesting. Imagine keeping the
temperature constant while they are laser trimmed.

Platinum RTDs are used by standards organizations to interpolate
between cardinal points on the temp scale. Of course they can't be
cardinal points themselves.

On 2022-12-18 07:36, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Dec 2022 12:46:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tnka6b$qp2$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>
>> On 2022-12-16 07:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Dec 2022 12:02:04 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tneurc$1610$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>>
>>>> The real problem is that the people who have to decide on the
>>>> energy production strategy are very susceptible to public
>>>> opinion, and the general public understands bugger all about
>>>> energy.
>>>
>>> The Dutch government has just decided to build 2 new nuclear plants
>>> next to the old one, then we have 3.
>>
>> Yeah. A panicky reaction to the current crisis or maybe just political
>> opportunism. This does nothing for at least another 15 years and so
>> much can change in that interval that those reactors will likely never
>> be finished.
>
> It is a wise decision, we need the power now our gas fields sort of close.

It would have been a wise decision if it had been taken 15 years ago.
Now, it's too little, too late.

> If you are real you would stop your Got a particle search as you cause climate change !!!
> (Not that I believe you causing CO2 changes much).
>
> CERN is just a job creation program, as is ITER, to keep
> fresh students converted to Einsteinianism and other crap theories busy
> and then saying 'we are doing something for science'
> Get a real job
>
> CERN millions in, zero out, ITER million in zero out
>
> Pedaling on a bike with dynamo makes more electricity
> HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE US MAKING REAL POWER YOU POWER SUCKER.
>

No comment.

Jeroen Belleman

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 12:57:37 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 12:16:15 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 8:07:37 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 00:05:41 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:47:46 AM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>
>>> >> Is that even possible, conditioning air to millikelvin stability?
>>> >> I don't believe it.
>>> >
>>> >Why not? Other than a gas thermometer, how would you even calibrate millikelvin
>>> >sensors?
>>
>>> Platinum RTDs are available with millikelvin calibration. Or for just
>>> equality and stability, calibrate a batch yourself.
>>
>>That misses the point; gas thermometry is an absolute standard, tied by laws
>>of physics to a limiting case of dilute gas at temperature... a platinum resistor
>>is more complex, and would only serve as a secondary element in a temperature
>>calibration chain.

While gas thermometry follows a physical law nicely, in practice it
isn't all that precise.

>NIF just needs stability, not absolute temperature.

Radars are like that too. On a very large radar proposed some years
ago, we kept the areas with the RF electronics stable to one degree C,
thus stabilizing phase shifts all around, despite local temperature
variations due to various power components..

>You can buy standard RTDs spec'd to 0.15c, and they are typically much
>better. One could keep a bunch of them in a lab as your reference, and
>test every other one against them, for mK repeatability.
>
>Even the 1206 surface-mount thinfilm platinum RTDs are crazy accurate.
>Their manufacturing must be interesting. Imagine keeping the
>temperature constant while they are laser trimmed.

And even the cheap ones can be pretty good.

>Platinum RTDs are used by standards organizations to interpolate
>between cardinal points on the temp scale. Of course they can't be
>cardinal points themselves.

For the record, those "cardinal points" are generally the triple
points of various pure substances.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_point>

This is something that one can do at home, for some of the listed
substances.

Joe Gwinn

On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Dec 2022 23:16:44 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tno3gc$541$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>On 2022-12-18 07:36, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Dec 2022 12:46:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tnka6b$qp2$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>> It is a wise decision, we need the power now our gas fields sort of close.
>
>It would have been a wise decision if it had been taken 15 years ago.
>Now, it's too little, too late.

Well politics, Murkel, nuculear fear
but we are moving forward again.

After the 2014 glowball nuculear war everything will radiate anyways, so we can have RTG powered cars...
WW2 gave os rocket tech and moon landing..
WW3 will give us a cottage on mars?
JoLa will have one there I am sure!

On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Dec 2022 01:58:34 -0800 (PST)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<ff64323e-5cbd-4164-a162-52cef7750994n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 5:39:31 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Dec 2022 12:46:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
>> <jer...@nospam.please> wrote in <tnka6b$qp2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>:
>> >On 2022-12-16 07:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Dec 2022 12:02:04 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman <jer...@nospam.please> wrote in
>> >> <tneurc$1610$1...@gioia.aioe.org>:
>> >>
>> >>> The real problem is that the people who have to decide on the energy production strategy are very susceptible to public
>> >>> opinion, and the general public understands bugger all about energy.
>
>But the people who make the decisions are even more susceptible to economic arguments, and the people who pass them brown paper
>bags stuffed with cash do know about profit and loss.
>
>> >> The Dutch government has just decided to build 2 new nuclear plants next to the old one, then we have 3.
>> >
>> >Yeah. A panicky reaction to the current crisis or maybe just political opportunism. This does nothing for at least another 15
>> >years and so much can change in that interval that those reactors will likely never be finished.
>
>The only Dutch reactor I knew about made medicial isotopes, not power, and if the new reactors going next to that one, they
>will probably make medical isotopes too.
>
>> It is a wise decision, we need the power now our gas fields sort of close.
>> If you are real you would stop your Got a particle search as you cause climate change !!!
>> (Not that I believe you causing CO2 changes much).
>>
>> CERN is just a job creation program, as is ITER, to keep fresh students converted to Einsteinianism and other crap theories
>> busy and then saying 'we are doing.something for science'
>> Get a real job
>>
>> CERN millions in, zero out, ITER million in zero out.
>
>Jan does suffer from tunnel vision.

Vision, me at 76 repairing and building micro electronics, learn from it.
As to vision: my strong side has always been to see through complex things.

For example, we see CERN, ITER, and ISS
what is the common thing in those 3?
Its a circle, a go around
'tunnel' vision of course you need in CERN :-)
But the circle is a political favorite for eternal job creation
ISS does nothing for anybody like a car burning fuel and people, endlessly driving around the block
Same for CERN and ITER Columbus was the real thing!!
Money sink, taxpayer drain,
The real discoveries will come from some people with different 'vision'
even a complete idiot can see that shooting 2 Teslas at each other at 10,000 km/h (or miles per hour if
you are stuck in those units) will NOT give you a deeper understanding of that car's electronics etc..
Several CERN tunnels requiring things have now been done on the desktop.
I have said so many times: 'If you cannot do it with those small particles on the desktop
then you cannot do it in a machine the size of the universe".

What one 'sees' and my profession has been fault finding for a long time,
and that meant fault finding repair and analysis in seconds
in electronics and systems more complex than you can even imagine, is different for each person.
Martin and other astronomers look at pictures of things in the universe, I look a the same pictures
and see other things, and a mechanism, where Einstein (and he admitted that on his death bed) failed.
You see nothing and your postings can be replaced by a less than 200 line script, 'bot' if you will :-).
So this is for everybody else.
Open you eyes!

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:36:33 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 6:19:06 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 8:13:23 PM UTC-8, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 5:44:43 AM UTC+11, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> > > > Jeroen Belleman <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Only another factor of about 1k to go. Don't hold your breath.
> > > > >
> > > > > What's the efficiency of their lasers, really? And what about
> > > > > the efficiency of the whole facility?
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeroen Belleman
> > > > This is not a breakthrough. The energy required to produce the laser
> > > > pulses is significant but it is ignored. See
> > > > https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/the-beamline-to-ignition-video
> > > >
> > > > NIF has no way to turn the energy into electricity. This will incur
> > > > additional losses, so the overall net energy will be much less than
> > > > unity. Sabine Hossenfelder has written about this problem in
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4W1g-6JiY
> > > >
> > > > The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
> > > > provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.
> > > And the usual highly radioactive fission residues that will have to be kept safely isolated for hundreds of thousands of year. What is actually fissioned is U-233.
> > > The difference from regular nuclear reactors is that it is formed in situ by neutron capture from Th-232. There's no U-238 around so you don't get any putonium
> > >
> > I wouldn't get too excited about fusion yet: the experiment produced enough energy to power a Tesla for about one mile (305 WHr). And if you compare the cost to produce that energy vs what it costs off of the grid you would be massively disappointed. The main point was that they were able to have a net power output, a first for fusion research.
> Not exactly. They saw a net power output, but they weren't able to do it again.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_European_Torus
>
> didn't quite get to break even, but could do it repeatedly.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
>
> scales up the machine to a point where it should be able to do it reliably. It won't generate any power, but will give the kind of data that you could use to design an actual generating station.
>
> > BTW, what is "pjutonium?"
>
> A typo. Somebody with even slightly more sense that Sewage Sweeper wouldn't have needed to ask.
>
> --
> BozoBill Sloman, Sydney

There goes Bozo AGAIN - correcting his OWN typo in MY comment! His spelling borders on the senile!!

Bozo's Sewage Sweeper

On December 14, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
> NIF has no way to turn the energy into electricity. This will incur
> additional losses, so the overall net energy will be much less than
> unity. Sabine Hossenfelder has written about this problem in
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4W1g-6JiY

"No one expects accuracy in a TED talk."
Worth the price of admission by itself!

> The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
> provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.

Why thorium?

--
Rich

On a sunny day (Mon, 19 Dec 2022 01:52:59 -0800 (PST)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<232aed9a-a2c7-4b1d-a447-651216c57da9n@googlegroups.com>:

>> For example, we see CERN, ITER, and ISS what is the common thing in those
>3? Its a circle, a go around.
>> 'tunnel' vision of course you need in CERN :-)
>
>Topologically, Jan is right but it isn't a useful insight.
>
>> But the circle is a political favorite for eternal job creation.
>
>CERN, ITER and ISS are all there to let us learn about stuff - Jan knows it
>all already so he doesn't see the point.

There are better ways to learn about things

>> ISS does nothing for anybody like a car burning fuel and people, endlessly
>driving around the block.
>
>It doesn't burn fuel while it is doing that. Jan's grasp of orbital mechanics
>is fragile.

Wrong, it needs regular burns to keep it in orbit,
at its low altitude there is sill atmospheric drag.

>> Same for CERN and ITER. Columbus was the real thing!!
>
>Columbus thought that the circumference of the planet was about 60% of the correct
>number. Eratosthenes knew better. and so did pretty much everybody else.
>Columbus got lucky.

We have strange ideas about how things work in space.

And example
and, if Martin reads this, and if he can speak German,..
well there are programs on Astra1 satellite like N24docu, cable one docu'
and a few more that have sometimes days long space related science programs with
videos, interviews with real scientists etc, I like watching those.
Last week for the second time I watched the one about the spacecraft we did send to Pluto
One thing hit me immediately:
Pluto is much hotter than we would expect as it is so far from the sun..
The commentator then stated "This is caused by radioactive elements in Pluto's inner core'
Well, look up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage's_theory_of_gravitation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges-Louis_Le_Sage

I like that theory and it predicts internal heating of heavenly bodies
as well is possibly the 'dark matter' as it makes logic sense.

Radio active elements, not likely.. No evidence given
NASA TV on Hotbird 13 E satellite is HD and free to air too.
On the northern hemisphere spend some on a good steerable sat dish,
Get educated!

On December 19, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
>> > The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
>> > provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.
>
>> Why thorium?
>
> "Thorium" reactors relying on neutron capture by Th-232 to breed U-233 which fissions
> in much the same way as U-235, and can breed more U-233.

But you don't need radioactive processes.
Molten salts, mined from deep wells, are already in use; geothermal,
as clean it gets. And almost infinite supply. So no need for thorium.

--
Rich

On 2022-12-20 20:06, RichD wrote:
> On December 19, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
>>>> The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
>>>> provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.
>>
>>> Why thorium?
>>
>> "Thorium" reactors relying on neutron capture by Th-232 to breed U-233 which fissions
>> in much the same way as U-235, and can breed more U-233.
>
> But you don't need radioactive processes.
>
> Molten salts, mined from deep wells, are already in use; geothermal,
> as clean it gets. And almost infinite supply. So no need for thorium.
> --
> Rich
>

Where? What production level?

Jeroen Belleman

On December 20, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>> The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
>>>>> provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.
>
>>>> Why thorium?
>
>>> "Thorium" reactors relying on neutron capture by Th-232 to breed U-233 which fissions
>>> in much the same way as U-235, and can breed more U-233.
>
>> But you don't need radioactive processes.
>
>> Molten salts, mined from deep wells, are already in use; geothermal,
>> as clean it gets. And almost infinite supply. So no need for thorium.
>
> Where? What production level?

https://patents.justia.com/inventor/david-alan-mcbay

Obtaining heat this way, in molten salts, competes with solar thermal
collectors. I'm ignorant of the relative economics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS10_solar_power_plant

--
Rich

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On 2022-12-21 20:37, RichD wrote:
> On December 20, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>>> The ideal solution is a Thorium Molten Salt Reactor. This will
>>>>>> provide clean, walk-away safe energy for many thousands of years.
>>
>>>>> Why thorium?
>>
>>>> "Thorium" reactors relying on neutron capture by Th-232 to breed U-233 which fissions
>>>> in much the same way as U-235, and can breed more U-233.
>>
>>> But you don't need radioactive processes.
>>
>>> Molten salts, mined from deep wells, are already in use; geothermal,
>>> as clean it gets. And almost infinite supply. So no need for thorium.
>>
>> Where? What production level?
>
> https://patents.justia.com/inventor/david-alan-mcbay
>
[...]

But that guy is an opportunist trying to profit from other people's
work! He hasn't done anything useful himself!

Jeroen Belleman

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On December 22, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>> But you don't need radioactive processes.
>>>> Molten salts, mined from deep wells, are already in use; geothermal,
>>>> as clean it gets. And almost infinite supply. So no need for thorium.
>
>>> Where? What production level?
>
> > https://patents.justia.com/inventor/david-alan-mcbay
>
> But that guy is an opportunist trying to profit from other people's
> work! He hasn't done anything useful himself!

Well it passed the patent office obstacle course -

--
Rich

On 2022-12-22 20:17, RichD wrote:
> On December 22, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>> But you don't need radioactive processes.
>>>>> Molten salts, mined from deep wells, are already in use; geothermal,
>>>>> as clean it gets. And almost infinite supply. So no need for thorium.
>>
>>>> Where? What production level?
>>
>>> https://patents.justia.com/inventor/david-alan-mcbay
>>
>> But that guy is an opportunist trying to profit from other people's
>> work! He hasn't done anything useful himself!
>
> Well it passed the patent office obstacle course -
>
> --
> Rich
>

Yes, it did. What's this called again, a "nuisance patent"?

Jeroen Belleman

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

> On 2022-12-22 20:17, RichD wrote:
>> On December 22, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
>>>>>> But you don't need radioactive processes.
>>>>>> Molten salts, mined from deep wells, are already in use; geothermal,
>>>>>> as clean it gets. And almost infinite supply. So no need for
>>>>>> thorium.
>>>
>>>>> Where? What production level?
>>>
>>>> https://patents.justia.com/inventor/david-alan-mcbay
>>>
>>> But that guy is an opportunist trying to profit from other people's
>>> work! He hasn't done anything useful himself!
>>
>> Well it passed the patent office obstacle course -
>>
>> --
>> Rich
>>
>
> Yes, it did. What's this called again, a "nuisance patent"?
>
> Jeroen Belleman

It is actually a useless patent. There is only one place in the US where
magma is close enough to the surface to tap. Even there the magma is mostly
solid.

Quote:

How big is the magma chamber under Yellowstone?

Yellowstone is underlain by two magma bodies. The shallower one is composed
of rhyolite (a high-silica rock type) and stretches from 5 km to about 17
km (3 to 10 mi) beneath the surface and is about 90 km (55 mi) long and
about 40 km (25 mi) wide. The chamber is mostly solid, with only about 5-
15% melt. The deeper reservoir is composed of basalt (a low-silica rock
type) and extends from 20 to 50 km (12 to 30 mi) beneath the surface. Even
though the deeper chamber is about 4.5 times larger than the shallow
chamber, it contains only about 2% melt.

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-big-magma-chamber-under-yellowstone

Elsewhere you can drill down 12 km without reaching magma. The Kola
Superdeep Borehole goes down 40,230ft-deep (12.2km) and only reaches a
temperature of 180C (356F).

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190503-the-deepest-hole-we-have-ever-
dug

The advantage of Thorium Molten Salt Reactors is they can be placed
wherever they are needed, in whatever size that is required. This is not
possible with conventional Pressurized Water Reactors that have to be huge
to be economical enough to construct.

--
MRM