On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:38:16 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<s73jbidgt975ahkbmorm8asm3t95n3oo01@4ax.com>:

>On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>>> <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252F3kvvU1@mid.individual.net>:
>>>
>>>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> The missing Americans:
>>>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Summary:
>>>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>>>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>>>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>>>
>>>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>>>
>>>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>>>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>>>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>>>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>>>
>>> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>>>
>>
>>Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
>>differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
>>
>>>
>>>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
>>>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
>>>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
>>>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
>>>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
>>>> having a blast.
>>>
>>> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
>>> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
>>> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
>>> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
>>> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
>>> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
>>> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
>>>
>>> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
>>> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
>>> Biking a lot..
>>>
>>
>>Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
>>should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
>>
>>[...]
>
>I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.

I had some pizza last night, bought in the supermarket,
kept in the deep freeze, added my own toppings... mmmm

I do like to cook things.
Maybe it helps that I am a vegetarian (since the mid seventies).
And I do not drink alcohol either.
So for today spaghetti and a banana and tofu and olives, olive oil, mushrooms, is planned
Yogurt, apple juice, kiwis, whole wheat cookies, ice cream, and some H2O.
Kiwis or grapes every other day!

On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:38:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>> >> <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252...@mid.individual.net>:
>> >>
>> >>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >>>> The missing Americans:
>> >>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>> >>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Summary:
>> >>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>> >>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>> >>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>> >>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>> >>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>> >>> sedentary lifestyle.
>> >>>
>> >>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>> >>>
>> >>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>> >>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>> >>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>> >>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>> >>
>> >> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>> >>
>> >
>> >Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
>> >differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
>> >>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
>> >>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
>> >>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
>> >>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
>> >>> having a blast.
>> >>
>> >> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
>> >> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
>> >> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
>> >> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
>> >> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
>> >> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
>> >> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
>> >>
>> >> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
>> >> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
>> >> Biking a lot..
>> >>
>> >
>> >Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
>> >should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
>> >
>> >[...]
>> I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
>
>https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/fitness/fitness-basics/aha-recs-for-physical-activity-in-adults

0.94 miles round trip, 246 feet delta elevation, lugging pizza dough
and parmnesan back up the hill. The dough is great but gets sold out
by 2PM or so.

Hiking to shop, lots of small loads a few times per week, instead of
driving, is great. I guess that's not a good idea in parts of the
country where it's brutally hot and stores are 20 miles away.

The French village concept is healthy, a lot of small shops and a lot
of small shopping trips on foot every day. Fresh bread and such.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 05:21:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:38:16 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
><s73jbidgt975ahkbmorm8asm3t95n3oo01@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>>>> <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252F3kvvU1@mid.individual.net>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> The missing Americans:
>>>>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>>>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>>>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>>>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>>>>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>>>>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>>>>
>>>>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>>>>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>>>>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>>>>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>>>>
>>>> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>>>>
>>>
>>>Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
>>>differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
>>>>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
>>>>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
>>>>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
>>>>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
>>>>> having a blast.
>>>>
>>>> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
>>>> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
>>>> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
>>>> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
>>>> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
>>>> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
>>>> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
>>>>
>>>> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
>>>> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
>>>> Biking a lot..
>>>>
>>>
>>>Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
>>>should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
>>>
>>>[...]
>>
>>I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
>
>I had some pizza last night, bought in the supermarket,
>kept in the deep freeze, added my own toppings... mmmm
>
>I do like to cook things.
>Maybe it helps that I am a vegetarian (since the mid seventies).
>And I do not drink alcohol either.
>So for today spaghetti and a banana and tofu and olives, olive oil, mushrooms, is planned
>Yogurt, apple juice, kiwis, whole wheat cookies, ice cream, and some H2O.
>Kiwis or grapes every other day!

The little market down the hill sells fresh sourdough pizza dough
every day, until they run out. It's in a thin plastic bag and feels
gross. It makes a fabulous pizza, or you can make fried bread which is
great. But a little sweet Italian sausage on the pizza wouldn't kill
you.

We just scored two bags of cranberry beans, also called borlottis. We
plan a cook-off on Saturday, one vegetarian and one my way.

Try this, if you can get it.

https://www.amazon.com/SFOGLINI-Cascatelli-Pasta-16-OZ/dp/B09YB51CFT/ref=sr_1_4_pp?crid=2CZPB1E4GEDN&keywords=cascatelli+pasta&qid=1689939206&sprefix=cascatelli%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-4

It's a weird, wonderful take on pasta. Boil in very salty water for 21
minutes at sea level.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:41:35 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>On 7/20/23 7:51 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 12:15:58?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> The missing Americans:
>>>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Summary:
>>>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>>>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>>>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>>>
>>>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>>
>>> We have an enormous geographic and ethnic diversity, including
>>> millions of legal and illegal immigrants. The US is the crossroads of
>>> the world and inherits the problems of the world. Ocean to ocean,
>>> arctic circle to Mexico.
>>
>> Don't be silly. Europe also has a lot of ethnic diversity - and for exactly the same reason. The are lots of poorer countries around it's border and work within is better paid than work outside it.
>>
>>> Paris has had some difficulty lately. Actually, the USA does pretty well absorbing immigrants. We don't have giant single-language enclaves or police keepout zones.
>>
>> Most of the US is still English only which makes it a huge ethnic enclave.
>>
>
>Absolutely not. For example, the displays in our hardware stores are
>English and Spanish. Not that I think this is right but that's how it is.

What's weird is that lots of food products are labeled in English and
French. I think that's bogus food snobbery. Not many people speak
French here.

>
>When I got lost in Oakland about 20 years ago due to a bad map I asked
>at a car repair shop. No English. Looked aropnd the plaza, same thing
>everywhere, all the signs in Vietnamese. The owner of the shop motioned
>to a bus stop and said "yielohw ... weet". Aha! So I waited for the big
>yellow school bus, lots of kids including his son popped out and he
>translated.

All the construction crews here speak Spanish, except for the
occasional chinese. The Mission District is heavy hispanic. Roughly
half of my employees grew up speaking non-English. Chinese dialects,
Spanish, Portugese. Dinner was yummy chinese/korean dumplings.

>
>Our election ballot material is sent out in other languages. Now, to be
>eligible to vote you must be a citizen and to become citizen one must
>pass the language test. Weird.

Yes, weird.

>
>When moving to another country I expect the new arrivals to learn that
>country's official language if they plan to stay. Just as I did in the
>Netherlands even though I only lived there a few years. I felt it was
>the right thing to do. It takes effort but man has got to do what man
>has got to do (Johne Wayne).
>
>[...]

On a sunny day (Fri, 21 Jul 2023 04:35:37 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<6pqkbih38se7khurdotp551tp4mt4gdii7@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 05:21:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:38:16 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>><s73jbidgt975ahkbmorm8asm3t95n3oo01@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>>>>> <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252F3kvvU1@mid.individual.net>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> The missing Americans:
>>>>>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>>>>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>>>>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>>>>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>>>>>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>>>>>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>>>>>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>>>>>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>>>>>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
>>>>differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
>>>>>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
>>>>>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
>>>>>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
>>>>>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
>>>>>> having a blast.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
>>>>> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
>>>>> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
>>>>> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
>>>>> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
>>>>> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
>>>>> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
>>>>>
>>>>> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
>>>>> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
>>>>> Biking a lot..
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
>>>>should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
>>>>
>>>>[...]
>>>
>>>I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
>>
>>I had some pizza last night, bought in the supermarket,
>>kept in the deep freeze, added my own toppings... mmmm
>>
>>I do like to cook things.
>>Maybe it helps that I am a vegetarian (since the mid seventies).
>>And I do not drink alcohol either.
>>So for today spaghetti and a banana and tofu and olives, olive oil, mushrooms, is planned
>>Yogurt, apple juice, kiwis, whole wheat cookies, ice cream, and some H2O.
>>Kiwis or grapes every other day!
>
>The little market down the hill sells fresh sourdough pizza dough
>every day, until they run out. It's in a thin plastic bag and feels
>gross. It makes a fabulous pizza, or you can make fried bread which is
>great. But a little sweet Italian sausage on the pizza wouldn't kill
>you.
>
>We just scored two bags of cranberry beans, also called borlottis. We
>plan a cook-off on Saturday, one vegetarian and one my way.
>
>Try this, if you can get it.
>
>https://www.amazon.com/SFOGLINI-Cascatelli-Pasta-16-OZ/dp/B09YB51CFT/ref=sr_1_4_pp?crid=2CZPB1E4GEDN&keywords=cascatelli+pasta&qid=1689939206&sprefix=cascatelli%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-4
>
>It's a weird, wonderful take on pasta. Boil in very salty water for 21
>minutes at sea level.

Seems nice
I also use a lot of ketchup, and tomatoes too yesterday.
And we have nice brown sliced bread...
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi512387/ah-waldkorn-classic-heel
recently tested as best bread..
with good butter... and cheese every day
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi197228/de-zaanse-hoeve-belegen-48-plakken
And they have great apple pie ... baked while you wait for it, still warm..
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi231911/ah-roomboter-appeltaart
nice with cream:
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi475115/ah-slagroom-spuitbus

On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:12:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Fri, 21 Jul 2023 04:35:37 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
><6pqkbih38se7khurdotp551tp4mt4gdii7@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 05:21:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:38:16 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>><s73jbidgt975ahkbmorm8asm3t95n3oo01@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>>>>>> <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252F3kvvU1@mid.individual.net>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>> The missing Americans:
>>>>>>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>>>>>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>>>>>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>>>>>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>>>>>>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>>>>>>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>>>>>>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>>>>>>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>>>>>>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
>>>>>differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
>>>>>>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
>>>>>>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
>>>>>>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
>>>>>>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
>>>>>>> having a blast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
>>>>>> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
>>>>>> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
>>>>>> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
>>>>>> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
>>>>>> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
>>>>>> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
>>>>>> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
>>>>>> Biking a lot..
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
>>>>>should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
>>>>>
>>>>>[...]
>>>>
>>>>I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
>>>
>>>I had some pizza last night, bought in the supermarket,
>>>kept in the deep freeze, added my own toppings... mmmm
>>>
>>>I do like to cook things.
>>>Maybe it helps that I am a vegetarian (since the mid seventies).
>>>And I do not drink alcohol either.
>>>So for today spaghetti and a banana and tofu and olives, olive oil, mushrooms, is planned
>>>Yogurt, apple juice, kiwis, whole wheat cookies, ice cream, and some H2O.
>>>Kiwis or grapes every other day!
>>
>>The little market down the hill sells fresh sourdough pizza dough
>>every day, until they run out. It's in a thin plastic bag and feels
>>gross. It makes a fabulous pizza, or you can make fried bread which is
>>great. But a little sweet Italian sausage on the pizza wouldn't kill
>>you.
>>
>>We just scored two bags of cranberry beans, also called borlottis. We
>>plan a cook-off on Saturday, one vegetarian and one my way.
>>
>>Try this, if you can get it.
>>
>>https://www.amazon.com/SFOGLINI-Cascatelli-Pasta-16-OZ/dp/B09YB51CFT/ref=sr_1_4_pp?crid=2CZPB1E4GEDN&keywords=cascatelli+pasta&qid=1689939206&sprefix=cascatelli%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-4
>>
>>It's a weird, wonderful take on pasta. Boil in very salty water for 21
>>minutes at sea level.
>
>Seems nice
>I also use a lot of ketchup, and tomatoes too yesterday.
>And we have nice brown sliced bread...
> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi512387/ah-waldkorn-classic-heel
> recently tested as best bread..
>with good butter... and cheese every day
> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi197228/de-zaanse-hoeve-belegen-48-plakken
>And they have great apple pie ... baked while you wait for it, still warm..
> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi231911/ah-roomboter-appeltaart
>nice with cream:
> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi475115/ah-slagroom-spuitbus
>

There is a trend here to more local, fresh stuff from small suppliers
or individuals, less engineered factory food. Small bakeries, small
restaurants, farmers' markets.

These folks baked fabulous goodies in their house. They have since
gone more commercial, using rented-by-the hour commercial kitchen
space but still sell in their Bernal Heights neighborhood.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dpnzy40u9ju7b1yg5wvkn/Bernal_Bakery_Basket.jpg?rlkey=s4ay94q75cwi8a9a342xmr7gg&raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7w7nyv30rqsqc6fcsjfq9/Bernal_Country.jpg?rlkey=kn6kbzs1jv4x2k1zpzcbbbne5&raw=1

You'd line up and when you got below the basket, shout up your order.
They'd lower it in the basket, you'd take it and put some money.

Lots of people are renting cooking spaces, or even restaurants for a
night, and trying to cook and sell their stuff. Food trucks and
pop-ups are common lately too.

Covid sure shook things up. Maybe we're decentralizing.

One can run an electronics company in a small place now too. Parts can
be had overnight, internet does the marketing, contract assemblers are
everywhere. You need a part-time bookkeeper, maybe a retired CPA.

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 7:25:11 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:38:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> >> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
> >> >> <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252...@mid.individual.net>:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> >>>> The missing Americans:
> >> >>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
> >> >>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Summary:
> >> >>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
> >> >>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
> >> >>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
> >> >>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
> >> >>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
> >> >>> sedentary lifestyle.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
> >> >>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
> >> >>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
> >> >>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
> >> >>
> >> >> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
> >> >differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
> >> >>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
> >> >>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
> >> >>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
> >> >>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
> >> >>> having a blast.
> >> >>
> >> >> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
> >> >> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
> >> >> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
> >> >> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
> >> >> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
> >> >> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
> >> >> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
> >> >>
> >> >> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
> >> >> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
> >> >> Biking a lot..
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
> >> >should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
> >> >
> >> >[...]
> >> I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
> >
> >https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/fitness/fitness-basics/aha-recs-for-physical-activity-in-adults
> 0.94 miles round trip, 246 feet delta elevation, lugging pizza dough
> and parmnesan back up the hill.

That's a 10% incline. What was your transit time on the return uphill, did you notice?

>The dough is great but gets sold out
> by 2PM or so.
>
> Hiking to shop, lots of small loads a few times per week, instead of
> driving, is great. I guess that's not a good idea in parts of the
> country where it's brutally hot and stores are 20 miles away.
>
> The French village concept is healthy, a lot of small shops and a lot
> of small shopping trips on foot every day. Fresh bread and such.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 08:50:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 7:25:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:38:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> >> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>> >> >> <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252...@mid.individual.net>:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> >>>> The missing Americans:
>> >> >>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>> >> >>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Summary:
>> >> >>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>> >> >>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>> >> >>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>> >> >>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>> >> >>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>> >> >>> sedentary lifestyle.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>> >> >>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>> >> >>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>> >> >>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
>> >> >differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
>> >> >>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
>> >> >>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
>> >> >>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
>> >> >>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
>> >> >>> having a blast.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
>> >> >> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
>> >> >> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
>> >> >> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
>> >> >> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
>> >> >> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
>> >> >> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
>> >> >> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
>> >> >> Biking a lot..
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
>> >> >should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
>> >> >
>> >> >[...]
>> >> I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
>> >
>> >https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/fitness/fitness-basics/aha-recs-for-physical-activity-in-adults
>> 0.94 miles round trip, 246 feet delta elevation, lugging pizza dough
>> and parmnesan back up the hill.
>
>That's a 10% incline. What was your transit time on the return uphill, did you notice?

I didn't time it, but I did stop a few times to, err, enjoy the view.

It's mostly green dirt lanes and a few staircases, some up and down
bits. I sometimes pick blackberries on the way home.

I remember driving through a suburb of Dallas. All flat
air-conditioned ranch-style houses in an infinite matrix. There was a
little kid walking alone in the blazing barren landscape. We felt sad
for him.

No stairs, no slopes, nothing within walking distance, and they need
a/c everywhere to survive. No wonder people get fat.

On a sunny day (Fri, 21 Jul 2023 08:46:43 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<859lbi12jilr0t2ivm1ks1m3ht9g4slk9g@4ax.com>:

>On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 12:12:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Fri, 21 Jul 2023 04:35:37 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>><6pqkbih38se7khurdotp551tp4mt4gdii7@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 05:21:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:38:16 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>><s73jbidgt975ahkbmorm8asm3t95n3oo01@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>>>>>>> <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252F3kvvU1@mid.individual.net>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The missing Americans:
>>>>>>>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>>>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>>>>>>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>>>>>>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>>>>>>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>>>>>>>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>>>>>>>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>>>>>>>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>>>>>>>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>>>>>>>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
>>>>>>differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
>>>>>>>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
>>>>>>>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
>>>>>>>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
>>>>>>>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
>>>>>>>> having a blast.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
>>>>>>> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
>>>>>>> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
>>>>>>> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
>>>>>>> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
>>>>>>> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
>>>>>>> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
>>>>>>> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
>>>>>>> Biking a lot..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
>>>>>>should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[...]
>>>>>
>>>>>I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
>>>>
>>>>I had some pizza last night, bought in the supermarket,
>>>>kept in the deep freeze, added my own toppings... mmmm
>>>>
>>>>I do like to cook things.
>>>>Maybe it helps that I am a vegetarian (since the mid seventies).
>>>>And I do not drink alcohol either.
>>>>So for today spaghetti and a banana and tofu and olives, olive oil, mushrooms, is planned
>>>>Yogurt, apple juice, kiwis, whole wheat cookies, ice cream, and some H2O.
>>>>Kiwis or grapes every other day!
>>>
>>>The little market down the hill sells fresh sourdough pizza dough
>>>every day, until they run out. It's in a thin plastic bag and feels
>>>gross. It makes a fabulous pizza, or you can make fried bread which is
>>>great. But a little sweet Italian sausage on the pizza wouldn't kill
>>>you.
>>>
>>>We just scored two bags of cranberry beans, also called borlottis. We
>>>plan a cook-off on Saturday, one vegetarian and one my way.
>>>
>>>Try this, if you can get it.
>>>
>>>https://www.amazon.com/SFOGLINI-Cascatelli-Pasta-16-OZ/dp/B09YB51CFT/ref=sr_1_4_pp?crid=2CZPB1E4GEDN&keywords=cascatelli+pasta&
>>>qid=1689939206&sprefix=cascatelli%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-4
>>>
>>>It's a weird, wonderful take on pasta. Boil in very salty water for 21
>>>minutes at sea level.
>>
>>Seems nice
>>I also use a lot of ketchup, and tomatoes too yesterday.
>>And we have nice brown sliced bread...
>> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi512387/ah-waldkorn-classic-heel
>> recently tested as best bread..
>>with good butter... and cheese every day
>> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi197228/de-zaanse-hoeve-belegen-48-plakken
>>And they have great apple pie ... baked while you wait for it, still warm..
>> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi231911/ah-roomboter-appeltaart
>>nice with cream:
>> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi475115/ah-slagroom-spuitbus
>>
>
>There is a trend here to more local, fresh stuff from small suppliers
>or individuals, less engineered factory food. Small bakeries, small
>restaurants, farmers' markets.
>
>These folks baked fabulous goodies in their house. They have since
>gone more commercial, using rented-by-the hour commercial kitchen
>space but still sell in their Bernal Heights neighborhood.
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dpnzy40u9ju7b1yg5wvkn/Bernal_Bakery_Basket.jpg?rlkey=s4ay94q75cwi8a9a342xmr7gg&raw=1
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7w7nyv30rqsqc6fcsjfq9/Bernal_Country.jpg?rlkey=kn6kbzs1jv4x2k1zpzcbbbne5&raw=1
>
>You'd line up and when you got below the basket, shout up your order.
>They'd lower it in the basket, you'd take it and put some money.
>
>Lots of people are renting cooking spaces, or even restaurants for a
>night, and trying to cook and sell their stuff. Food trucks and
>pop-ups are common lately too.
>
>Covid sure shook things up. Maybe we're decentralizing.
>
>One can run an electronics company in a small place now too. Parts can
>be had overnight, internet does the marketing, contract assemblers are
>everywhere. You need a part-time bookkeeper, maybe a retired CPA.

I had a TV repair shop in Amsterdam for years in the seventies and eighties.
Small space shop and an other big space for repairs later a few streets away.
Administration done by some guy who was good a it.
Turned into a VOF
https://business.gov.nl/starting-your-business/choosing-a-business-structure/general-partnership/
sales guy in the shop, truck driver...
You need some papers, diplomas, that is all.
Designed stuff too.

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 12:06:04 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 08:50:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 7:25:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:38:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> >> >> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
> >> >> >> <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252...@mid.individual..net>:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> >> >>>> The missing Americans:
> >> >> >>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
> >> >> >>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Summary:
> >> >> >>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
> >> >> >>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
> >> >> >>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
> >> >> >>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
> >> >> >>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
> >> >> >>> sedentary lifestyle.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health..
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
> >> >> >>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
> >> >> >>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
> >> >> >>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
> >> >> >differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
> >> >> >>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
> >> >> >>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
> >> >> >>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
> >> >> >>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
> >> >> >>> having a blast.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
> >> >> >> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
> >> >> >> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
> >> >> >> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
> >> >> >> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
> >> >> >> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
> >> >> >> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
> >> >> >> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
> >> >> >> Biking a lot..
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
> >> >> >should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >[...]
> >> >> I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
> >> >
> >> >https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/fitness/fitness-basics/aha-recs-for-physical-activity-in-adults
> >> 0.94 miles round trip, 246 feet delta elevation, lugging pizza dough
> >> and parmnesan back up the hill.
> >
> >That's a 10% incline. What was your transit time on the return uphill, did you notice?
> I didn't time it, but I did stop a few times to, err, enjoy the view.
>
> It's mostly green dirt lanes and a few staircases, some up and down
> bits. I sometimes pick blackberries on the way home.

That's probably in the light-moderate intensity by AHA.

There's really no substitute for programmed exercise by way of anything else.

For the longest time AHA was advocating just 15 minutes daily exercise at the high end of moderate, they defined as 70% perceived exertion, or puts you on the verge of perspiration, not heavy sweating. Now they're saying everyone needs 30 minutes. I think 15 minutes is enough. They defeat their purpose when they ask people to do something inconvenient like set aside 30 minutes on a busy day. People are just going to skip workouts. If you have a foldable treadmill ( Gold's Gym from Walmart ), you can roll it out and do your workout after some coffee and before breakfast and be done with it. You should feel mildly invigorated by it, otherwise adjust your intensity until you do.

It's way more convenient than a stroke.

>
> I remember driving through a suburb of Dallas. All flat
> air-conditioned ranch-style houses in an infinite matrix. There was a
> little kid walking alone in the blazing barren landscape. We felt sad
> for him.
>
> No stairs, no slopes, nothing within walking distance, and they need
> a/c everywhere to survive. No wonder people get fat.

Diabetes belt.

I took a bus from Dallas to El Paso once, and nearly went nuts from the endless monotony of that landscape.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 05:32:10 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 12:06:04?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 08:50:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 7:25:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:38:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> >> >> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>> >> >> >> <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252...@mid.individual.net>:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> >> >> >>>> The missing Americans:
>> >> >> >>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>> >> >> >>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> Summary:
>> >> >> >>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>> >> >> >>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>> >> >> >>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>> >> >> >>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>> >> >> >>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>> >> >> >>> sedentary lifestyle.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>> >> >> >>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>> >> >> >>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>> >> >> >>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
>> >> >> >differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
>> >> >> >>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
>> >> >> >>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
>> >> >> >>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
>> >> >> >>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
>> >> >> >>> having a blast.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
>> >> >> >> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
>> >> >> >> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
>> >> >> >> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
>> >> >> >> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
>> >> >> >> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
>> >> >> >> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
>> >> >> >> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
>> >> >> >> Biking a lot..
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
>> >> >> >should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >[...]
>> >> >> I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/fitness/fitness-basics/aha-recs-for-physical-activity-in-adults
>> >> 0.94 miles round trip, 246 feet delta elevation, lugging pizza dough
>> >> and parmnesan back up the hill.
>> >
>> >That's a 10% incline. What was your transit time on the return uphill, did you notice?
>> I didn't time it, but I did stop a few times to, err, enjoy the view.
>>
>> It's mostly green dirt lanes and a few staircases, some up and down
>> bits. I sometimes pick blackberries on the way home.
>
>That's probably in the light-moderate intensity by AHA.
>
>There's really no substitute for programmed exercise by way of anything else.
>
>For the longest time AHA was advocating just 15 minutes daily exercise at the high end of moderate, they defined as 70% perceived exertion, or puts you on the verge of perspiration, not heavy sweating. Now they're saying everyone needs 30 minutes. I think 15 minutes is enough. They defeat their purpose when they ask people to do something inconvenient like set aside 30 minutes on a busy day. People are just going to skip workouts. If you have a foldable treadmill ( Gold's Gym from Walmart ), you can roll it out and do your workout after some coffee and before breakfast and be done with it. You should feel mildly invigorated by it, otherwise adjust your intensity until you do.

What most people will feel is boredom. Used treadmills are plentiful
and cheap. What's a better long-term incentive is some really good
latte half a mile away.

>
>It's way more convenient than a stroke.
>
>>
>> I remember driving through a suburb of Dallas. All flat
>> air-conditioned ranch-style houses in an infinite matrix. There was a
>> little kid walking alone in the blazing barren landscape. We felt sad
>> for him.
>>
>> No stairs, no slopes, nothing within walking distance, and they need
>> a/c everywhere to survive. No wonder people get fat.
>
>Diabetes belt.
>
>I took a bus from Dallas to El Paso once, and nearly went nuts from the endless monotony of that landscape.

Driving clear across Texas, from Louisiana to New Mexico on Interstate
10, is an amazing experience. Over 1100 miles, much of it staring at
the vanishing point along a flat, straight highway with just dirt and
scrub on both sides.

Some people live in places like that, but towns should have some
complexity, as old natural-grown towns did. Matrix subdivisions are
abominations.

This was written in 1961

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067974195X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

but is still right on the mark. She has interesting things to say
about walkability.

On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 9:48:32 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 05:32:10 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 12:06:04?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 08:50:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 7:25:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 15:54:58 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> >> >> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:38:32?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:31:13 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >On 7/19/23 11:53 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
> >> >> >> >> <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252...@mid.individual.net>:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>> The missing Americans:
> >> >> >> >>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
> >> >> >> >>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >> >>>> Summary:
> >> >> >> >>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
> >> >> >> >>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
> >> >> >> >>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
> >> >> >> >>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
> >> >> >> >>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
> >> >> >> >>> sedentary lifestyle.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
> >> >> >> >>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
> >> >> >> >>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
> >> >> >> >>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Very unlikely. I've lived on both continents for decades and the
> >> >> >> >differences are massive. It's habits, plain and simple.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> The other tier are those who could be considered fitness buffs. I
> >> >> >> >>> regularly meet them at the gym, on my road bike, on mountain bike trails
> >> >> >> >>> or walking their dogs in the morning at a pretty fast clip. Rain or
> >> >> >> >>> shine, and that's one of the differences, the motivation. Those are the
> >> >> >> >>> people you see hammering up a rocky and steep singletrack at age 80,
> >> >> >> >>> having a blast.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Well I did some sport in my kid days, my father wanted me to join a club
> >> >> >> >> that did long marches on a regular basis, so walking, you got a medal
> >> >> >> >> if you made it.. I had a box full, never cared much about it
> >> >> >> >> but was more fascinated about all the places we went.
> >> >> >> >> We had sports at school, hokey, some soccer, swimming was required,
> >> >> >> >> I liked to play billiards and some snooker..
> >> >> >> >> biking I did a lot as a kid,..
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I see a lot of older people here walking with a stick, slowly,
> >> >> >> >> I am lucky, still running around like when I was 20..
> >> >> >> >> Biking a lot..
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Got to keep active. You can always get some sort of disease but one
> >> >> >> >should not trigger it with a sedentary lifestyle.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >[...]
> >> >> >> I think I'll hike down the hill and try to score some pizza dough.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/fitness/fitness-basics/aha-recs-for-physical-activity-in-adults
> >> >> 0.94 miles round trip, 246 feet delta elevation, lugging pizza dough
> >> >> and parmnesan back up the hill.
> >> >
> >> >That's a 10% incline. What was your transit time on the return uphill, did you notice?
> >> I didn't time it, but I did stop a few times to, err, enjoy the view.
> >>
> >> It's mostly green dirt lanes and a few staircases, some up and down
> >> bits. I sometimes pick blackberries on the way home.
> >
> >That's probably in the light-moderate intensity by AHA.
> >
> >There's really no substitute for programmed exercise by way of anything else.
> >
> >For the longest time AHA was advocating just 15 minutes daily exercise at the high end of moderate, they defined as 70% perceived exertion, or puts you on the verge of perspiration, not heavy sweating. Now they're saying everyone needs 30 minutes. I think 15 minutes is enough. They defeat their purpose when they ask people to do something inconvenient like set aside 30 minutes on a busy day. People are just going to skip workouts. If you have a foldable treadmill ( Gold's Gym from Walmart ), you can roll it out and do your workout after some coffee and before breakfast and be done with it. You should feel mildly invigorated by it, otherwise adjust your intensity until you do.
> What most people will feel is boredom. Used treadmills are plentiful
> and cheap. What's a better long-term incentive is some really good
> latte half a mile away.
> >
> >It's way more convenient than a stroke.
> >
> >>
> >> I remember driving through a suburb of Dallas. All flat
> >> air-conditioned ranch-style houses in an infinite matrix. There was a
> >> little kid walking alone in the blazing barren landscape. We felt sad
> >> for him.
> >>
> >> No stairs, no slopes, nothing within walking distance, and they need
> >> a/c everywhere to survive. No wonder people get fat.
> >
> >Diabetes belt.
> >
> >I took a bus from Dallas to El Paso once, and nearly went nuts from the endless monotony of that landscape.
> Driving clear across Texas, from Louisiana to New Mexico on Interstate
> 10, is an amazing experience. Over 1100 miles, much of it staring at
> the vanishing point along a flat, straight highway with just dirt and
> scrub on both sides.
>
> Some people live in places like that, but towns should have some
> complexity, as old natural-grown towns did. Matrix subdivisions are
> abominations.
>
> This was written in 1961
>
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067974195X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
> but is still right on the mark. She has interesting things to say
> about walkability.

You can say that about a lot of towns and cities with medieval origins in Europe, but not the USA where virtually everyplace was formed to support some kind of industry. Central and south America are the same way.

On 20/07/2023 07:53, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
> <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252F3kvvU1@mid.individual.net>:
>
>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> The missing Americans:
>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>
>>> Summary:
>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>
>>
>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>
>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>
>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>
> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...

Nah. It is difficult in the US to buy a meal the right size for an
ordinary fit adult human to eat entirely. Typical US meals start at
about twice your average European meal in weight and go upwards.

Supersize me pretty much sums up the US attitude to consuming copious
amounts of junk food high in saturated fat, sugar and salt. It also
showed its effects in short order on the guy who made the film.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me

Joerg is right that the US population is bimodal with a minority who are
fitness buffs and look more or less European. Many are just a bit
overweight but recently something like 40% of Americans are obese by the
standard medical definition. That is storing up trouble for everyone.

High BMI and its associated comorbidities of hypertension, diabetes were
potent risk factors during Covid.

--
Martin Brown

On a sunny day (Thu, 27 Jul 2023 09:35:23 +0100) it happened Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <u9ta8c$1r8bi$2@dont-email.me>:

>On 20/07/2023 07:53, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>> <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252F3kvvU1@mid.individual.net>:
>>
>>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> The missing Americans:
>>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>>
>>>> Summary:
>>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>>
>>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>>
>>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>>
>> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>
>Nah. It is difficult in the US to buy a meal the right size for an
>ordinary fit adult human to eat entirely. Typical US meals start at
>about twice your average European meal in weight and go upwards.
>
>Supersize me pretty much sums up the US attitude to consuming copious
>amounts of junk food high in saturated fat, sugar and salt. It also
>showed its effects in short order on the guy who made the film.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me
>
>Joerg is right that the US population is bimodal with a minority who are
>fitness buffs and look more or less European. Many are just a bit
>overweight but recently something like 40% of Americans are obese by the
>standard medical definition. That is storing up trouble for everyone.
>
>High BMI and its associated comorbidities of hypertension, diabetes were
> potent risk factors during Covid.

Just did read that site, but it also says:
As a counterpoint:
the film features interviews with Big Mac aficionado Don Gorske,
who eats an average of two Big Macs a day,
yet maintains his weight and cholesterol.

Much depends on our gut microbes, what they like, what they do.
Not been to Mc Donalds for many years myself..
Have lived on french fries and some cheese for long times.
French fries and some meat before the mid seventies.
And used to eat at Chinese restaurants a lot...
was one next to where I lived in the early seventies.
And at work, the media center has its own restaurant.
No idea what was in it, never payed much attention, taste was good..
Have not eaten meat or used alcohol since 1976 or so.

I eat a lot more fruit these days.
In the UK I mainly lived on pitas, bought from
one of the many Indian stores.
Some cheese... hardly any fruit.
So, not everybody is the same.
Survived in the wild from things I found, taking some chances,
not even boiled water from a stream, things I dug up.

Now the grapes in my garden look big enough to have a go :-)
And was eating a lot of chocolate lately...
sometimes month long none, then lots of chocolate...
Use no drugs either.
Plenty exercise, biking, gardening, now running up and down stairs putting in some cables for something..
But also sitting still and watching movies or just coding...

On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 09:35:23 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 20/07/2023 07:53, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>> <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252F3kvvU1@mid.individual.net>:
>>
>>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> The missing Americans:
>>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>>
>>>> Summary:
>>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>>
>>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>>
>>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>>
>> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>
>Nah. It is difficult in the US to buy a meal the right size for an
>ordinary fit adult human to eat entirely. Typical US meals start at
>about twice your average European meal in weight and go upwards.

We take our leftover restaurant food to-go. That gets us two or
sometimes three meals for the price of one.

I read somewhere that europeans think it's bad form to take leftover
food to go. Is that true?

Sushi is one food that you buy in small increments. We also have tapas
type restaurants where one orders several small portions. Dim sum is
like that, too. Or one can just order appetizers, which make a nice
light meal.

We usually share entrees too. We recently had three people at a
fabulous Portugese restaurant and we shared four appetizers and three
entrees and took some home.
Restaurants have to factor in sharing: If an entree is enoumous, it
will feed two or three people.

Some people thing sharing is bad manners too. We have shared food with
strangers at another table.

Nobody forces anyone to order a giant amount of food, or to eat it all
themselves.

And nobody forces you to repeat mindless America-bashing.

I undestand why nobody wants to eat a lot of British food.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 05:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:16:20?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 2:45:21?PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> > The missing Americans:
>> > Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>> > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>> >
>> > Summary:
>> > A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>> > could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>> > In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>> > to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>> >
>> > Don't wanna be in America?
>> It shows up in the life expectancy tables,
>>
>> https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/
>>
>> The US is 47th on the list at 79.74 years. The Netherlands is 24th at 82.58 years. Universal health care - which the US hasn't got - may have a lot to do with this.
>
>
>If anything, judging by the performance of NHS in other 'advanced' countries, the absence of an NHS results in people living longer.
>
>Canada and UK NHS are a complete joke! Americans won't put up with that kind of fiasco for five minutes.

The UK government over the past 10 years at least has been a shower of
monumental incompetence in every area, so it's hardly surprising their
health service has deteriorated so badly, along with everything else
in their public sector.
Introducing a National Health Service in America would be *vastly* and
crushingly expensive. It couldn't be funded out of further borrowing
so something like defense would have to take a major, major hit. I
don't see them going down that road unless they deliberately decide
they want to bankrupt the nation (which they may well do at some point
it is rumoured - but that's another story).

On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 19:49:14 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 05:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 1:16:20?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 2:45:21?PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> > The missing Americans:
>>> > Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>> > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>> >
>>> > Summary:
>>> > A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>> > could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>> > In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>> > to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>> >
>>> > Don't wanna be in America?
>>> It shows up in the life expectancy tables,
>>>
>>> https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/
>>>
>>> The US is 47th on the list at 79.74 years. The Netherlands is 24th at 82.58 years. Universal health care - which the US hasn't got - may have a lot to do with this.
>>
>>
>>If anything, judging by the performance of NHS in other 'advanced' countries, the absence of an NHS results in people living longer.
>>
>>Canada and UK NHS are a complete joke! Americans won't put up with that kind of fiasco for five minutes.
>
>The UK government over the past 10 years at least has been a shower of
>monumental incompetence in every area, so it's hardly surprising their
>health service has deteriorated so badly, along with everything else
>in their public sector.
>Introducing a National Health Service in America would be *vastly* and
>crushingly expensive. It couldn't be funded out of further borrowing
>so something like defense would have to take a major, major hit. I
>don't see them going down that road unless they deliberately decide
>they want to bankrupt the nation (which they may well do at some point
>it is rumoured - but that's another story).

We need more Kaisers, true flat-fee HMOs whose incentives are to keep
their clients healthy and happy. Let them compete and give poor people
vouchers to let them shop around.

Public education should work the same way, vouchers and competition.

On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 09:35:23 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 20/07/2023 07:53, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:16:16 -0700) it happened Joerg
>> <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <khr252F3kvvU1@mid.individual.net>:
>>
>>> On 7/18/23 9:43 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> The missing Americans:
>>>> Unprecedented US mortality far exceeds other wealthy nations
>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717143216.htm
>>>>
>>>> Summary:
>>>> A new study found that more than one million US deaths per year -- including many young and working-age adults --
>>>> could be avoided if the US had mortality rates similar to its peer nations.
>>>> In 2021, 1.1 million deaths would have been averted in the United States if the US had mortality rates similar
>>>> to other wealthy nations, according to a new study.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Much of the reasons can be summed up in very few words: Fast food, not
>>> much sports, plenty of audio-visual entertainment, too much drug use. A
>>> sedentary lifestyle.
>>>
>>> There is almost a two-tier society here when it comes to health.
>>>
>>> On one side those that are more of less couch potatoes, generally rather
>>> overweight. These folks develop ailments such as high cholesterol
>>> levels, diabetes, almost mortal obesity, cardiac events and such quite
>>> early in life. Usually before retirement.
>>
>> Could be genetics, inherited from parents etc...
>
>Nah. It is difficult in the US to buy a meal the right size for an
>ordinary fit adult human to eat entirely. Typical US meals start at
>about twice your average European meal in weight and go upwards.

It's true that portions at US restaurants are often grotesque, so
taking at least half home is common.

But it's also true that genetics matter. If a Bulldog diets, the
result is not an Afghan Hound, it's an emaciated and hangry Bulldog.

>Supersize me pretty much sums up the US attitude to consuming copious
>amounts of junk food high in saturated fat, sugar and salt. It also
>showed its effects in short order on the guy who made the film.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me>

The issue of manufactured food and its effect on the population is
rising to the top of the agenda, after many decades of assuming that
obesity was due only to lack of willpower.

The core issue was only recently discovered, that vertebrates
(including humans) have two "taste" sensor systems, one in the nose
and tongue (which is used to select foods, or more importantly to
reject some foods), and the other in the gut, to assess how much amino
acids, carbohydrates, et al the recently eaten food in fact yielded.
The general desire to eat is driven by the gut taste systems, not the
nose and tongue.

Diet foods may taste good, but yield too little of substance to
satisfy hunger. So people keep on eating until the gut stops
complaining.

And now Ozempic proves the point: despite its many serious side
effects, it directly abolishes the urge to eat, obviating the need for
willpower.

>Joerg is right that the US population is bimodal with a minority who are
>fitness buffs and look more or less European. Many are just a bit
>overweight but recently something like 40% of Americans are obese by the
>standard medical definition. That is storing up trouble for everyone.
>
>High BMI and its associated comorbidities of hypertension, diabetes were
> potent risk factors during Covid.

As was excessive alcohol consumption - there were many jokes about
"COVID Liver" in the early days of the lockdown.

Joe Gwinn