I Envy JTEM wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> Do you need it explained to you?
>
> You're trolling. Go back under your bridge.
>
>>> Again, because the emotional damage you suffered did not allow you to
>>> register it the last time, if there had been standing water they would have
>>> drank it, instead of delving further & further into the cave before becoming
>>> trapped and slowly dying.
>>>
>>> It's kind of a requirement, this lack of standing water...
> [...]
>>> Tell me, I said "cool moist air" and you're pretending I said "It was filled with
>>> water." Why's that?
>
>> I quoted the paper about no water action.
>
> Wow and I made it clear multiple times that NOTHING I said implied water. In

"moist"

> fact, my words EXCLUDED water! If there was water they would have drank it,

"moist"

> instead of being drawn BY THE COOL, MOIST AIR deeper & deeper into the

"moist"

> cave until they were trapped & died.

Here on earth, "moist" :

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moist

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> I Envy JTEM wrote:

> > Wow and I made it clear multiple times that NOTHING I said implied water. In
> "moist"

"Cool, moist air."

I'm literally saying "Air" and your hemorrhoid that you call a brain is claiming that
I said "Water."

Repeatedly.

A lack of reading comprehension does NOT an argument make.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/673133387413913600

I Envy JTEM wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> I Envy JTEM wrote:
>
>>> Wow and I made it clear multiple times that NOTHING I said implied water. In
>> "moist"
>
> "Cool, moist air."
>
> I'm literally saying "Air" and your hemorrhoid that you call a brain is claiming that
> I said "Water."
>
> Repeatedly.
>
> A lack of reading comprehension does NOT an argument make.

Here on Earth "moist" has a cause... you know, water... What does "moist"
imply?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moist

Why are you literally saying "moist"?

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> Here on Earth "moist" has a cause...

Yeah. Moisture.

And like I pointed out and you still can't grasp: "Moist AIR."

"Moist" is used as an adjective. The noun is "Air."

What was I talking about? AIR. The AIR is moist.

Now move on with your life before I start to saying something mean.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/673305954924822528

I Envy JTEM wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> Here on Earth "moist" has a cause...
>
> Yeah. Moisture.
>
> And like I pointed out and you still can't grasp: "Moist AIR."
>
> "Moist" is used as an adjective. The noun is "Air."
>
> What was I talking about? AIR. The AIR is moist.
>
> Now move on with your life before I start to saying something mean.

And how did the air get "moist"?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moist

https://elifesciences.org/articles/09561

"With the exception of six avian bones and isolated non-diagnostic rodent
elements, all identifiable, macro-skeletal specimens recovered to date from
the Dinaledi Chamber are clearly hominin..."

"The skeletal assemblage of H. naledi displays little variation in surface
structure and condition, indicating that the hominin material has been
exposed to a limited range of environmental fluctuation during its
depositional history. "

"None of the bone fragments studied preserve evidence of bleaching,
cortical exfoliation, delamination or deep patination, indicating that the
bones were not affected by solar radiation (Lyman and Fox, 1989, 1997);
that is, no bone fragment was exposed to weathering on surface outside
the cave, which is consistent with sedimentation patterns observed in the
chamber."

"The matrix sediments surrounding the fossils do not present evidence for
sedimentation processes that involved significant water action able to
transport coarse-grained material including bone fragments."

"No evidence is noted of vertebrate modifications such as those caused by
carnivores, rodents or other hominins. The specimens were assessed for
evidence of edge polish from repeated gnawing, tooth pits or punctures
perpendicular to the surface of the bone, tooth scores, striations and/or
furrows (V or U-shaped in cross section), and traces of gastric corrosion
(Haynes, 1983; de Ruiter and Berger, 2000; Pickering et al., 2004; Pokines
and Symes, 2013; Supplementary file 2). There is no evidence of stone tool
inflicted cuts, scrapes, impact or chop marks (White, 2014). Tooth scores
and pits, crenulated edges and splintered shafts associated with carnivore
damage (Kuhn, 2011) are absent. None of the specimens are burnt (Stiner
et al., 1995) or shows signs of trampling other than limited incidental recent
breakage by cavers that is readily evident (Behrensmeyer et al., 1986)."

"Overall, weathering patterns of the bone surfaces are consistent with the
effects of sub-aerial and sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or
water-saturated, dark depositional environment that experienced stable
temperatures."

"Limited weathering (physical and chemical) indicative of sub-aerial,
sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or water-saturated, dark
environment (Figure 10) indicate that the bones were never exposed to the
earth's surface and elements (the sun and rain) outside the cave (Lyman
and Fox, 1989; Backwell et al., 2012; Junod and Pokines, 2013)."

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> And how did the air get "moist"?

So, you being a blithering idiot, allow me to grant you a powerful hint, one
which should leave you incredibly embarrassed:

https://elifesciences.org/articles/24231

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4559842/

Clink a link. Go up to your browser menu and select "Find." Search on the
word "Moist."

This site, on the other hand, references "humidity." I'm guessing even if you
are perplexed by that word you will have no trouble finding an adult who
can explain what it means, even if you are most unlikely to understand their
answer.

-- --

https://rumble.com/vr5fsv-confessions-of-an-ex-hippie.html

I Envy JERM wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> And how did the air get "moist"?
>
> So, you being a blithering idiot, allow me to grant you a powerful hint, one
> which should leave you incredibly embarrassed:
>
> https://elifesciences.org/articles/24231
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4559842/
>
> Clink a link. Go up to your browser menu and select "Find." Search on the
> word "Moist."
>
> This site, on the other hand, references "humidity." I'm guessing even if you
> are perplexed by that word you will have no trouble finding an adult who
> can explain what it means, even if you are most unlikely to understand their
> answer.

Neither "humidity" nor "moist" found in the articles.

And how did the air get "moist"?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moist

https://elifesciences.org/articles/09561

"With the exception of six avian bones and isolated non-diagnostic rodent
elements, all identifiable, macro-skeletal specimens recovered to date from
the Dinaledi Chamber are clearly hominin..."

"The skeletal assemblage of H. naledi displays little variation in surface
structure and condition, indicating that the hominin material has been
exposed to a limited range of environmental fluctuation during its
depositional history. "

"None of the bone fragments studied preserve evidence of bleaching,
cortical exfoliation, delamination or deep patination, indicating that the
bones were not affected by solar radiation (Lyman and Fox, 1989, 1997);
that is, no bone fragment was exposed to weathering on surface outside
the cave, which is consistent with sedimentation patterns observed in the
chamber."

"The matrix sediments surrounding the fossils do not present evidence for
sedimentation processes that involved significant water action able to
transport coarse-grained material including bone fragments."

"No evidence is noted of vertebrate modifications such as those caused by
carnivores, rodents or other hominins. The specimens were assessed for
evidence of edge polish from repeated gnawing, tooth pits or punctures
perpendicular to the surface of the bone, tooth scores, striations and/or
furrows (V or U-shaped in cross section), and traces of gastric corrosion
(Haynes, 1983; de Ruiter and Berger, 2000; Pickering et al., 2004; Pokines
and Symes, 2013; Supplementary file 2). There is no evidence of stone tool
inflicted cuts, scrapes, impact or chop marks (White, 2014). Tooth scores
and pits, crenulated edges and splintered shafts associated with carnivore
damage (Kuhn, 2011) are absent. None of the specimens are burnt (Stiner
et al., 1995) or shows signs of trampling other than limited incidental recent
breakage by cavers that is readily evident (Behrensmeyer et al., 1986)."

"Overall, weathering patterns of the bone surfaces are consistent with the
effects of sub-aerial and sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or
water-saturated, dark depositional environment that experienced stable
temperatures."

"Limited weathering (physical and chemical) indicative of sub-aerial,
sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or water-saturated, dark
environment (Figure 10) indicate that the bones were never exposed to the
earth's surface and elements (the sun and rain) outside the cave (Lyman
and Fox, 1989; Backwell et al., 2012; Junod and Pokines, 2013)."

I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish I could be JTEM, Primum Sapienti wrote:

> Neither "humidity" nor "moist" found in the articles.

I sometimes lose track of which article says what but, my very first search
found here...

: Unit 3 deposits are spread across the cave floor as loosely packed, semi-moist, orange
: mud clasts of varying sizes in which bone material of H. naledi is distributed.

So. You really are lame. If it'll help, I'll try to act surprised.

Naledi wandered deep into the cave, drawn in by cool, moist air during a
time of drought, only to be trapped & die. It was nature's own "Roach Motel"
where Naledi checked in but they didn't check out.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/676775721186869248

I Envy JTEM wrote:

> This site, on the other hand, references "humidity." I'm guessing even if you
> are perplexed by that word you will have no trouble finding an adult who
> can explain what it means, even if you are most unlikely to understand their
> answer.

It's pretty clear from the context that I had forgotten to actually paste this
third cite:

https://wildonscience.com/2015/09/from-cradle-to-grave/

Do your word search on "Humidity" there... but seeing how you couldn't
find any references to "moist" or "moisture" in the first two cites, the
prospects seem grim.

Blessings.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/676775721186869248

Jerm wrote:
> I Envy JTEM wrote:
>
>> This site, on the other hand, references "humidity." I'm guessing even if you
>> are perplexed by that word you will have no trouble finding an adult who
>> can explain what it means, even if you are most unlikely to understand their
>> answer.
>
> It's pretty clear from the context that I had forgotten to actually paste this
> third cite:

It's clear you're "incredibly embarrassed", as you put it.

> https://wildonscience.com/2015/09/from-cradle-to-grave/
>
> Do your word search on "Humidity" there... but seeing how you couldn't
> find any references to "moist" or "moisture" in the first two cites, the
> prospects seem grim.

"...University professor Lee Berger put out a call for “skinny
anthropologists, biologists, cavers, not afraid of confined spaces”. Six
women were chosen as the explorers who would brave this dark cave system
with its high humidity. "

Lee Berger's ad for volunteers:

https://news.wisc.edu/naledi/gurtov.html

“We need perhaps three or four individuals with excellent
archaeological/paleontological
excavation skills for a short term project that may kick off as early as
November 1st 2013
and last the month if all logistics go as planned. The catch is this – the
person must be
skinny and preferably small. They must not be claustrophobic, they must be
fit, they
should have some caving experience, climbing experience would be a bonus.
They must
be willing to work in cramped quarters, have a good attitude and be a team
player.”

No mention of "high humidity"...

Schematic of the Rising Star cave system

<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Cross-section_of_the_Rising_Star_Cave_system_Dinaledi_Chamber.svg/388px-Cross-section_of_the_Rising_Star_Cave_system_Dinaledi_Chamber.svg.png>

going through the narrow channels make little sense in a search for water...

https://elifesciences.org/articles/09561

"With the exception of six avian bones and isolated non-diagnostic rodent
elements, all identifiable, macro-skeletal specimens recovered to date from
the Dinaledi Chamber are clearly hominin..."

"The skeletal assemblage of H. naledi displays little variation in surface
structure and condition, indicating that the hominin material has been
exposed to a limited range of environmental fluctuation during its
depositional history. "

"None of the bone fragments studied preserve evidence of bleaching,
cortical exfoliation, delamination or deep patination, indicating that the
bones were not affected by solar radiation (Lyman and Fox, 1989, 1997);
that is, no bone fragment was exposed to weathering on surface outside
the cave, which is consistent with sedimentation patterns observed in the
chamber."

"The matrix sediments surrounding the fossils do not present evidence for
sedimentation processes that involved significant water action able to
transport coarse-grained material including bone fragments."

"No evidence is noted of vertebrate modifications such as those caused by
carnivores, rodents or other hominins. The specimens were assessed for
evidence of edge polish from repeated gnawing, tooth pits or punctures
perpendicular to the surface of the bone, tooth scores, striations and/or
furrows (V or U-shaped in cross section), and traces of gastric corrosion
(Haynes, 1983; de Ruiter and Berger, 2000; Pickering et al., 2004; Pokines
and Symes, 2013; Supplementary file 2). There is no evidence of stone tool
inflicted cuts, scrapes, impact or chop marks (White, 2014). Tooth scores
and pits, crenulated edges and splintered shafts associated with carnivore
damage (Kuhn, 2011) are absent. None of the specimens are burnt (Stiner
et al., 1995) or shows signs of trampling other than limited incidental recent
breakage by cavers that is readily evident (Behrensmeyer et al., 1986)."

"Overall, weathering patterns of the bone surfaces are consistent with the
effects of sub-aerial and sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or
water-saturated, dark depositional environment that experienced stable
temperatures."

"Limited weathering (physical and chemical) indicative of sub-aerial,
sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or water-saturated, dark
environment (Figure 10) indicate that the bones were never exposed to the
earth's surface and elements (the sun and rain) outside the cave (Lyman
and Fox, 1989; Backwell et al., 2012; Junod and Pokines, 2013)."

Penis Breath Sapienti wrote:

> > I Envy JTEM wrote:
> >
> >> This site, on the other hand, references "humidity." I'm guessing even if you
> >> are perplexed by that word you will have no trouble finding an adult who
> >> can explain what it means, even if you are most unlikely to understand their
> >> answer.
> >
> > It's pretty clear from the context that I had forgotten to actually paste this
> > third cite:

> It's clear you're "incredibly embarrassed", as you put it.

Explain. As you are by no means a raving jackass and you believe this statement
of yours to be true, walk us through it. Explain your rational. Employ quotes.

NOTE: I'm laughing at you! You keep bluffing and it keeps failing!

> > https://wildonscience.com/2015/09/from-cradle-to-grave/
> >
> > Do your word search on "Humidity" there... but seeing how you couldn't
> > find any references to "moist" or "moisture" in the first two cites, the
> > prospects seem grim.

> "...University professor Lee Berger put out a call for “skinny
> anthropologists, biologists, cavers, not afraid of confined spaces”. Six
> women were chosen as the explorers who would brave this dark cave system
> with its high humidity. "

Oh. Okay. So three sites, two talk about moisture and one mentions humidity
and you claimed that no cites anywhere did this.

> Lee Berger's ad for volunteers:

Why? Have you no clue how to build a case for something?

You've been proven wrong. Accept it and move on. STOP obfuscating.

> No mention of "high humidity"...

Great. YOU QUOTED IT PREVIOUSLY! You quoted the use of the word humidity
in describing the cave, and saw two previous cites mentioning the moisture.

It's done. The fat lady sang, the ship sailed... it's all over.

You are literally arguing against reality!

It's established. You helped establish it yourself by digging out the quote,
finally, after making a goddamn fool of yourself with the first two cites you
never read.

> going through the narrow channels make little sense in a search for water....

Yeah, an animal literally dying of thirst in a drought could not possibly be
enticed by cool moist air... would never be attracted to that...

You're emotionally disturbed.

> "With the exception of six avian bones and isolated non-diagnostic rodent
> elements, all identifiable, macro-skeletal specimens recovered to date from
> the Dinaledi Chamber are clearly hominin..."

And I'm wasting my time as you can't even comprehend what it's saying,
much less extrapolate it into some sort of argument but, what the hell do
you think this means? What does it refute in that scabbed over pea you
call a brain?

> "The skeletal assemblage of H. naledi displays little variation in surface
> structure and condition, indicating that the hominin material has been
> exposed to a limited range of environmental fluctuation during its
> depositional history. "

Again, not addressing a goddamn thing... but you don't know that.

Unless you're currently so oxygen deprived that you simultaneously believe
that a SMALL NUMBER of individuals might not get trapped & die over a
period estimated to be 100,000 years or more, chiefly because the cave
system is too difficult/complex, but a population would plausible deposit
SOME of their dead -- but precious few?

Damn. You honestly are an idiot. It's not just an act.

These are not intentional burials. None of the evidence so much as suggests
it. Nothing you quoted leads to your idiotic "intentional burial" ramblings..

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/677648736132923392

I Envy JTEM wrote:
> Penis Breath Sapienti wrote:
>
>>> I Envy JTEM wrote:
>>>
>>>> This site, on the other hand, references "humidity." I'm guessing even if you
>>>> are perplexed by that word you will have no trouble finding an adult who
>>>> can explain what it means, even if you are most unlikely to understand their
>>>> answer.
>>>
>>> It's pretty clear from the context that I had forgotten to actually paste this
>>> third cite:
>
>> It's clear you're "incredibly embarrassed", as you put it.
>
> Explain.

Lee Berger's ad for volunteers:

https://news.wisc.edu/naledi/gurtov.html

“We need perhaps three or four individuals with excellent
archaeological/paleontological
excavation skills for a short term project that may kick off as early as
November 1st 2013
and last the month if all logistics go as planned. The catch is this – the
person must be
skinny and preferably small. They must not be claustrophobic, they must be
fit, they
should have some caving experience, climbing experience would be a bonus.
They must
be willing to work in cramped quarters, have a good attitude and be a team
player.”

No mention of "high humidity"...

Schematic of the Rising Star cave system

<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Cross-section_of_the_Rising_Star_Cave_system_Dinaledi_Chamber.svg/388px-Cross-section_of_the_Rising_Star_Cave_system_Dinaledi_Chamber.svg.png>

going through the narrow channels make little sense in a search for water...

https://elifesciences.org/articles/09561

"With the exception of six avian bones and isolated non-diagnostic rodent
elements, all identifiable, macro-skeletal specimens recovered to date from
the Dinaledi Chamber are clearly hominin..."

"The skeletal assemblage of H. naledi displays little variation in surface
structure and condition, indicating that the hominin material has been
exposed to a limited range of environmental fluctuation during its
depositional history. "

"None of the bone fragments studied preserve evidence of bleaching,
cortical exfoliation, delamination or deep patination, indicating that the
bones were not affected by solar radiation (Lyman and Fox, 1989, 1997);
that is, no bone fragment was exposed to weathering on surface outside
the cave, which is consistent with sedimentation patterns observed in the
chamber."

"The matrix sediments surrounding the fossils do not present evidence for
sedimentation processes that involved significant water action able to
transport coarse-grained material including bone fragments."

"No evidence is noted of vertebrate modifications such as those caused by
carnivores, rodents or other hominins. The specimens were assessed for
evidence of edge polish from repeated gnawing, tooth pits or punctures
perpendicular to the surface of the bone, tooth scores, striations and/or
furrows (V or U-shaped in cross section), and traces of gastric corrosion
(Haynes, 1983; de Ruiter and Berger, 2000; Pickering et al., 2004; Pokines
and Symes, 2013; Supplementary file 2). There is no evidence of stone tool
inflicted cuts, scrapes, impact or chop marks (White, 2014). Tooth scores
and pits, crenulated edges and splintered shafts associated with carnivore
damage (Kuhn, 2011) are absent. None of the specimens are burnt (Stiner
et al., 1995) or shows signs of trampling other than limited incidental recent
breakage by cavers that is readily evident (Behrensmeyer et al., 1986)."

"Overall, weathering patterns of the bone surfaces are consistent with the
effects of sub-aerial and sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or
water-saturated, dark depositional environment that experienced stable
temperatures."

"Limited weathering (physical and chemical) indicative of sub-aerial,
sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or water-saturated, dark
environment (Figure 10) indicate that the bones were never exposed to the
earth's surface and elements (the sun and rain) outside the cave (Lyman
and Fox, 1989; Backwell et al., 2012; Junod and Pokines, 2013)."

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> Lee Berger's ad for volunteers:

Great. Besides CONFIRMING what I stated, what else did you hope to accomplish?

Pretending that these were intentional burials is an embarrassment. It's beyond
stupid, it's laughable.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/678857025448558592

On Thursday 17 March 2022 at 03:18:20 UTC, Primum Sapienti wrote:

..> Lee Berger's ad for volunteers:
> https://news.wisc.edu/naledi/gurtov.html
>
> “We need perhaps three or four individuals with excellent
> archaeological/paleontological excavation skills for a short term
> project that may kick off as early as November 1st 2013 and last
> the month if all logistics go as planned. The catch is this – the
> person must be skinny and preferably small. They must not be
> claustrophobic, they must be fit, they should have some caving
> experience, climbing experience would be a bonus. They must be
> willing to work in cramped quarters, have a good attitude and be
> a team player.

> No mention of "high humidity"...

Google "caving humidity".

The applicants were required to have
caving experience, and so would have
known about the constant humidity.
No need to tell them.

Berger mentions in his videos about
the initial discovery that the first guys
to see the fossils found their cameras
would not work. The humidity was
so high.

On Thursday 17 March 2022 at 08:55:25 UTC, I Envy JTEM wrote:

> Pretending that these were intentional burials is an embarrassment. It's
> beyond stupid, it's laughable.

When your beliefs are so rigid that you
have to block out all contrary evidence,
it's you that is the problem.

On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-5, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> I Envy JTEM wrote:
> > Primum Sapienti wrote:
> >
> >> Here on Earth "moist" has a cause...
> >
> > Yeah. Moisture.
> >
> > And like I pointed out and you still can't grasp: "Moist AIR."
> >
> > "Moist" is used as an adjective. The noun is "Air."
> >
> > What was I talking about? AIR. The AIR is moist.
> >
> > Now move on with your life before I start to saying something mean.
> And how did the air get "moist"?
>
> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moist
> https://elifesciences.org/articles/09561
>
> "With the exception of six avian bones and isolated non-diagnostic rodent
> elements, all identifiable, macro-skeletal specimens recovered to date from
> the Dinaledi Chamber are clearly hominin..."
>
> "The skeletal assemblage of H. naledi displays little variation in surface
> structure and condition, indicating that the hominin material has been
> exposed to a limited range of environmental fluctuation during its
> depositional history. "
>
> "None of the bone fragments studied preserve evidence of bleaching,
> cortical exfoliation, delamination or deep patination, indicating that the
> bones were not affected by solar radiation (Lyman and Fox, 1989, 1997);
> that is, no bone fragment was exposed to weathering on surface outside
> the cave, which is consistent with sedimentation patterns observed in the
> chamber."
> "The matrix sediments surrounding the fossils do not present evidence for
> sedimentation processes that involved significant water action able to
> transport coarse-grained material including bone fragments."
> "No evidence is noted of vertebrate modifications such as those caused by
> carnivores, rodents or other hominins. The specimens were assessed for
> evidence of edge polish from repeated gnawing, tooth pits or punctures
> perpendicular to the surface of the bone, tooth scores, striations and/or
> furrows (V or U-shaped in cross section), and traces of gastric corrosion
> (Haynes, 1983; de Ruiter and Berger, 2000; Pickering et al., 2004; Pokines
> and Symes, 2013; Supplementary file 2). There is no evidence of stone tool
> inflicted cuts, scrapes, impact or chop marks (White, 2014). Tooth scores
> and pits, crenulated edges and splintered shafts associated with carnivore
> damage (Kuhn, 2011) are absent. None of the specimens are burnt (Stiner
> et al., 1995) or shows signs of trampling other than limited incidental recent
> breakage by cavers that is readily evident (Behrensmeyer et al., 1986)."
>
> "Overall, weathering patterns of the bone surfaces are consistent with the
> effects of sub-aerial and sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or
> water-saturated, dark depositional environment that experienced stable
> temperatures."
>
> "Limited weathering (physical and chemical) indicative of sub-aerial,
> sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or water-saturated, dark
> environment (Figure 10) indicate that the bones were never exposed to the
> earth's surface and elements (the sun and rain) outside the cave (Lyman
> and Fox, 1989; Backwell et al., 2012; Junod and Pokines, 2013)."

Caves are almost universally consistently damp and cool. If the surface entrance exuded the scent of humid air in an arid drought, many species would have detected it and attempted to enter for refreshment, gotten trapped and died leaving skeletons. There was something not obvious today which enabled hominins but not others to leave their carcasses there.
I suspect that hominins entered (by sight not scent) for cool air (not water) during the heat of the day, and being good wiry climbers of small slender size were easily able to go deeper seeking a large chamber to sleep, died from heavier-than-air toxic fumes. Most other fauna would have simply not gone deep, seeking only shade. The scent of water was not the key to this cave. Nor was deliberate burial. Nor was (insert mandatory macro) aquarboreal swampiness. They sought cool large space which had no predators or biting flies, and found it. Rest in peace.

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:15:46 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-5, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> > I Envy JTEM wrote:
> > > Primum Sapienti wrote:
> > >
> > >> Here on Earth "moist" has a cause...
> > >
> > > Yeah. Moisture.
> > >
> > > And like I pointed out and you still can't grasp: "Moist AIR."
> > >
> > > "Moist" is used as an adjective. The noun is "Air."
> > >
> > > What was I talking about? AIR. The AIR is moist.
> > >
> > > Now move on with your life before I start to saying something mean.
> > And how did the air get "moist"?
> >
> > https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moist
> > https://elifesciences.org/articles/09561
> >
> > "With the exception of six avian bones and isolated non-diagnostic rodent
> > elements, all identifiable, macro-skeletal specimens recovered to date from
> > the Dinaledi Chamber are clearly hominin..."
> >
> > "The skeletal assemblage of H. naledi displays little variation in surface
> > structure and condition, indicating that the hominin material has been
> > exposed to a limited range of environmental fluctuation during its
> > depositional history. "
> >
> > "None of the bone fragments studied preserve evidence of bleaching,
> > cortical exfoliation, delamination or deep patination, indicating that the
> > bones were not affected by solar radiation (Lyman and Fox, 1989, 1997);
> > that is, no bone fragment was exposed to weathering on surface outside
> > the cave, which is consistent with sedimentation patterns observed in the
> > chamber."
> > "The matrix sediments surrounding the fossils do not present evidence for
> > sedimentation processes that involved significant water action able to
> > transport coarse-grained material including bone fragments."
> > "No evidence is noted of vertebrate modifications such as those caused by
> > carnivores, rodents or other hominins. The specimens were assessed for
> > evidence of edge polish from repeated gnawing, tooth pits or punctures
> > perpendicular to the surface of the bone, tooth scores, striations and/or
> > furrows (V or U-shaped in cross section), and traces of gastric corrosion
> > (Haynes, 1983; de Ruiter and Berger, 2000; Pickering et al., 2004; Pokines
> > and Symes, 2013; Supplementary file 2). There is no evidence of stone tool
> > inflicted cuts, scrapes, impact or chop marks (White, 2014). Tooth scores
> > and pits, crenulated edges and splintered shafts associated with carnivore
> > damage (Kuhn, 2011) are absent. None of the specimens are burnt (Stiner
> > et al., 1995) or shows signs of trampling other than limited incidental recent
> > breakage by cavers that is readily evident (Behrensmeyer et al., 1986)."
> >
> > "Overall, weathering patterns of the bone surfaces are consistent with the
> > effects of sub-aerial and sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or
> > water-saturated, dark depositional environment that experienced stable
> > temperatures."
> >
> > "Limited weathering (physical and chemical) indicative of sub-aerial,
> > sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or water-saturated, dark
> > environment (Figure 10) indicate that the bones were never exposed to the
> > earth's surface and elements (the sun and rain) outside the cave (Lyman
> > and Fox, 1989; Backwell et al., 2012; Junod and Pokines, 2013)."
> Caves are almost universally consistently damp and cool. If the surface entrance exuded the scent of humid air in an arid drought, many species would have detected it and attempted to enter for refreshment, gotten trapped and died leaving skeletons. There was something not obvious today which enabled hominins but not others to leave their carcasses there.
> I suspect that hominins entered (by sight not scent) for cool air (not water) during the heat of the day, and being good wiry climbers of small slender size were easily able to go deeper seeking a large chamber to sleep, died from heavier-than-air toxic fumes. Most other fauna would have simply not gone deep, seeking only shade. The scent of water was not the key to this cave. Nor was deliberate burial. Nor was (insert mandatory macro) aquarboreal swampiness. They sought cool large space which had no predators or biting flies, and found it. Rest in peace.

http://www.sci-news.com/featurednews/homo-naledi-fossils-04843.html

Hnaledi had unique vertebrae only found elsewhere in Hneandertal.

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:31:06 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:15:46 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-5, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> > > I Envy JTEM wrote:
> > > > Primum Sapienti wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Here on Earth "moist" has a cause...
> > > >
> > > > Yeah. Moisture.
> > > >
> > > > And like I pointed out and you still can't grasp: "Moist AIR."
> > > >
> > > > "Moist" is used as an adjective. The noun is "Air."
> > > >
> > > > What was I talking about? AIR. The AIR is moist.
> > > >
> > > > Now move on with your life before I start to saying something mean.
> > > And how did the air get "moist"?
> > >
> > > https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moist
> > > https://elifesciences.org/articles/09561
> > >
> > > "With the exception of six avian bones and isolated non-diagnostic rodent
> > > elements, all identifiable, macro-skeletal specimens recovered to date from
> > > the Dinaledi Chamber are clearly hominin..."
> > >
> > > "The skeletal assemblage of H. naledi displays little variation in surface
> > > structure and condition, indicating that the hominin material has been
> > > exposed to a limited range of environmental fluctuation during its
> > > depositional history. "
> > >
> > > "None of the bone fragments studied preserve evidence of bleaching,
> > > cortical exfoliation, delamination or deep patination, indicating that the
> > > bones were not affected by solar radiation (Lyman and Fox, 1989, 1997);
> > > that is, no bone fragment was exposed to weathering on surface outside
> > > the cave, which is consistent with sedimentation patterns observed in the
> > > chamber."
> > > "The matrix sediments surrounding the fossils do not present evidence for
> > > sedimentation processes that involved significant water action able to
> > > transport coarse-grained material including bone fragments."
> > > "No evidence is noted of vertebrate modifications such as those caused by
> > > carnivores, rodents or other hominins. The specimens were assessed for
> > > evidence of edge polish from repeated gnawing, tooth pits or punctures
> > > perpendicular to the surface of the bone, tooth scores, striations and/or
> > > furrows (V or U-shaped in cross section), and traces of gastric corrosion
> > > (Haynes, 1983; de Ruiter and Berger, 2000; Pickering et al., 2004; Pokines
> > > and Symes, 2013; Supplementary file 2). There is no evidence of stone tool
> > > inflicted cuts, scrapes, impact or chop marks (White, 2014). Tooth scores
> > > and pits, crenulated edges and splintered shafts associated with carnivore
> > > damage (Kuhn, 2011) are absent. None of the specimens are burnt (Stiner
> > > et al., 1995) or shows signs of trampling other than limited incidental recent
> > > breakage by cavers that is readily evident (Behrensmeyer et al., 1986)."
> > >
> > > "Overall, weathering patterns of the bone surfaces are consistent with the
> > > effects of sub-aerial and sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or
> > > water-saturated, dark depositional environment that experienced stable
> > > temperatures."
> > >
> > > "Limited weathering (physical and chemical) indicative of sub-aerial,
> > > sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or water-saturated, dark
> > > environment (Figure 10) indicate that the bones were never exposed to the
> > > earth's surface and elements (the sun and rain) outside the cave (Lyman
> > > and Fox, 1989; Backwell et al., 2012; Junod and Pokines, 2013)."
> > Caves are almost universally consistently damp and cool. If the surface entrance exuded the scent of humid air in an arid drought, many species would have detected it and attempted to enter for refreshment, gotten trapped and died leaving skeletons. There was something not obvious today which enabled hominins but not others to leave their carcasses there.
> > I suspect that hominins entered (by sight not scent) for cool air (not water) during the heat of the day, and being good wiry climbers of small slender size were easily able to go deeper seeking a large chamber to sleep, died from heavier-than-air toxic fumes. Most other fauna would have simply not gone deep, seeking only shade. The scent of water was not the key to this cave. Nor was deliberate burial. Nor was (insert mandatory macro) aquarboreal swampiness. They sought cool large space which had no predators or biting flies, and found it. Rest in peace.
> http://www.sci-news.com/featurednews/homo-naledi-fossils-04843.html
>
> Hnaledi had unique vertebrae only found elsewhere in Hneandertal.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Temperature-in-Sakoto-cave-versus-woodland-habitat-and-chimpanzee-cave-visits-weeks_fig1_6214729

Chimps in Fongoli Senegal savannah rest in caves during dry season (no water) during the hottest time of the day. In tropical forests, they make day nests in canopy shade.

Paul Crowley wrote:

> When your beliefs are so rigid that you
> have to block out all contrary evidence,
> it's you that is the problem.

Is this a come-on? Are you hitting on me? Look. I'm flattered, I'm sure, but
I don't think I want to $#%& you. Sorry.

I mean, *I Know* you're not serious about this retarded "Intentional burial"
thing. How many individuals are represented? Over how long a period of
time?

Where are the rest?

These animals didn't have fire, they certainly weren't ritualistic...

That's insane. No, clearly, you're trying to win my sexual favors with a
display of your humor. But, sorry, not interested.

-- --

https://rumble.com/vr5fsv-confessions-of-an-ex-hippie.html

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:15:46 AM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-5, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> > I Envy JTEM wrote:
> > > Primum Sapienti wrote:
> > >
> > >> Here on Earth "moist" has a cause...
> > >
> > > Yeah. Moisture.
> > >
> > > And like I pointed out and you still can't grasp: "Moist AIR."
> > >
> > > "Moist" is used as an adjective. The noun is "Air."
> > >
> > > What was I talking about? AIR. The AIR is moist.
> > >
> > > Now move on with your life before I start to saying something mean.
> > And how did the air get "moist"?
> >
> > https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moist
> > https://elifesciences.org/articles/09561
> >
> > "With the exception of six avian bones and isolated non-diagnostic rodent
> > elements, all identifiable, macro-skeletal specimens recovered to date from
> > the Dinaledi Chamber are clearly hominin..."
> >
> > "The skeletal assemblage of H. naledi displays little variation in surface
> > structure and condition, indicating that the hominin material has been
> > exposed to a limited range of environmental fluctuation during its
> > depositional history. "
> >
> > "None of the bone fragments studied preserve evidence of bleaching,
> > cortical exfoliation, delamination or deep patination, indicating that the
> > bones were not affected by solar radiation (Lyman and Fox, 1989, 1997);
> > that is, no bone fragment was exposed to weathering on surface outside
> > the cave, which is consistent with sedimentation patterns observed in the
> > chamber."
> > "The matrix sediments surrounding the fossils do not present evidence for
> > sedimentation processes that involved significant water action able to
> > transport coarse-grained material including bone fragments."
> > "No evidence is noted of vertebrate modifications such as those caused by
> > carnivores, rodents or other hominins. The specimens were assessed for
> > evidence of edge polish from repeated gnawing, tooth pits or punctures
> > perpendicular to the surface of the bone, tooth scores, striations and/or
> > furrows (V or U-shaped in cross section), and traces of gastric corrosion
> > (Haynes, 1983; de Ruiter and Berger, 2000; Pickering et al., 2004; Pokines
> > and Symes, 2013; Supplementary file 2). There is no evidence of stone tool
> > inflicted cuts, scrapes, impact or chop marks (White, 2014). Tooth scores
> > and pits, crenulated edges and splintered shafts associated with carnivore
> > damage (Kuhn, 2011) are absent. None of the specimens are burnt (Stiner
> > et al., 1995) or shows signs of trampling other than limited incidental recent
> > breakage by cavers that is readily evident (Behrensmeyer et al., 1986)."
> >
> > "Overall, weathering patterns of the bone surfaces are consistent with the
> > effects of sub-aerial and sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or
> > water-saturated, dark depositional environment that experienced stable
> > temperatures."
> >
> > "Limited weathering (physical and chemical) indicative of sub-aerial,
> > sub-surface processes in a periodically wet or water-saturated, dark
> > environment (Figure 10) indicate that the bones were never exposed to the
> > earth's surface and elements (the sun and rain) outside the cave (Lyman
> > and Fox, 1989; Backwell et al., 2012; Junod and Pokines, 2013)."
> Caves are almost universally consistently damp and cool. If the surface entrance exuded the scent of humid air in an arid drought, many species would have detected it and attempted to enter for refreshment, gotten trapped and died leaving skeletons. There was something not obvious today which enabled hominins but not others to leave their carcasses there.
> I suspect that hominins entered (by sight not scent) for cool air (not water) during the heat of the day, and being good wiry climbers of small slender size were easily able to go deeper seeking a large chamber to sleep, died from heavier-than-air toxic fumes. Most other fauna would have simply not gone deep, seeking only shade. The scent of water was not the key to this cave. Nor was deliberate burial. Nor was (insert mandatory macro) aquarboreal swampiness. They sought cool large space which had no predators or biting flies, and found it. Rest in peace.

I use 'hominins' here in the sense of basal kin to Homo, they were probably a branch of Pan-bonobo/Homo that slept in arboreal bowl nests in wet season and ground nests (possibly in caves when available) in dry swamps during dry season (as some chimps do, avoiding both wet and dry predators, probably mostly bipedal with only incipient knucklewalking). Dominant bonobo females sleep highest in trees, curved finger bones aid climbing.

Paul Crowley wrote:
> On Thursday 17 March 2022 at 03:18:20 UTC, Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
> .> Lee Berger's ad for volunteers:
>> https://news.wisc.edu/naledi/gurtov.html
>>
>> “We need perhaps three or four individuals with excellent
>> archaeological/paleontological excavation skills for a short term
>> project that may kick off as early as November 1st 2013 and last
>> the month if all logistics go as planned. The catch is this – the
>> person must be skinny and preferably small. They must not be
>> claustrophobic, they must be fit, they should have some caving
>> experience, climbing experience would be a bonus. They must be
>> willing to work in cramped quarters, have a good attitude and be
>> a team player.
>
>> No mention of "high humidity"...
>
> Google "caving humidity".

We're talking about one and only one cave here.

> The applicants were required to have
> caving experience, and so would have
> known about the constant humidity.
> No need to tell them.
>
> Berger mentions in his videos about
> the initial discovery that the first guys
> to see the fossils found their cameras
> would not work. The humidity was
> so high.
>

I Envy JTEM wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> Lee Berger's ad for volunteers:
>
> Great. Besides CONFIRMING what I stated, what else did you hope to accomplish?
>
> Pretending that these were intentional burials is an embarrassment. It's beyond
> stupid, it's laughable.

Germ would look at a tiny narrow hole and say, hey everyone, let's squeeze
in there
and cool off... someone give me a push...

On Thursday 17 March 2022 at 13:15:46 UTC, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
..
> I suspect that hominins entered (by sight not scent) for cool
> air (not water) during the heat of the day, and being good
> wiry climbers of small slender size were easily able to go
> deeper seeking a large chamber to sleep, died from heavier-
> than-air toxic fumes. Most other fauna would have simply not
> gone deep, seeking only shade. The scent of water was not the
> key to this cave. Nor was deliberate burial. Nor was (insert
> mandatory macro) aquarboreal swampiness. They sought cool
> large space which had no predators or biting flies, and found
> it. Rest in peace.

When your beliefs are so rigid that you
have to block out all contrary evidence,
it's you that is the problem.

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> We're talking about one and only one cave here.

No we're not. The point about the moist air was settled long ago. But
you're still mouthing off. So it's not about any cave, no facts matter
here, this is all about YOU and YOUR inability to admit that you were
wrong.

https://groups.google.com/g/sci.anthropology.paleo/c/_MTWZY_Vxe4/m/cBQieefIFgAJ

I had forgotten the third cite, which I clearly reference there, but as it's
in this very thread, and you are pretending to be talking about a cave
and the facts surrounding it, you no doubt are already looking back and
finding it. That third cite. Pretending the two I presented in the abover
weren't enough.

So what's the issue here? a cave?

No. It's your inability to admit that you were wrong.

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/680033542752829440

Primum Sapienti wrote:

[...]

Grow some pubic hair, finally, and pretend that you're maturing. That way
you can maybe find enough integrity to admit that you were wrong.

Or you could just continue down this toboggan plunge into shame...

-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/680033542752829440