On 7/8/2021 9:57 AM, paul wrote:
> VanguardLH wrote on 08.07.2021 17:36
>> When have you ever looked at a city plat that did not identify roads?
>> That a property ID has been defined does not mandate there be a road
>> yet, but the plat is likely to show a proposed road. Plats have roads,
>> but the roads may not exist.
>
> Thank you for your added information about the city plats, which I believe
> you have far more experience with than I do.
>
> I've only dealt with them when I needed the assessor to talk to the GIS guy
> who needed to change _his_ maps, which then the local police and fire use.
>
> It took only a few months but when I finally flagged down a law enforcement
> car a few months after asking the GIS guys to talk to the assessors office,
> they showed their electronic maps had been corrected (they don't use paper
> maps anymore in emergency vehicles).
>
> They told me Google gets those local GIS maps which by now Google should
> have also, as should most of the other mapping outfits, where my point is my
> only experience with this stuff is when I had to get the assessor to talk to
> the GIS guy.
>
> In summary, apparently _all_ those who get their maps from the local
> authorities don't get them from the assessor but from the GIS team but the
> GIS team gets _their_ information from the assessor's office.
>
> That's my _only_ experience with this stuff, where I concede easily that
> your experience is clearly far greater than that one incident of mine.
>
> So I thank you for adding your information which helps me and others learn.
>
> By the way, back on the original technical topic, I dug up some of my old
> screenshots when I last tested downloading of offline maps in the Google
> Maps app, where this older version of Google Maps had a button for "Offline
> Maps" even if I didn't have an account set up on the phone.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/05H6kD2p/offline01.jpg> Google Offline Maps GUI
>
> The _older_ Google Maps GUI allowed you to get so far as to hit a few
> buttons to select the offline map tile of your choice... but...
> <https://i.postimg.cc/tg5TLVMn/offline02.jpg> Requires Google login
>
> Given I didn't have an account, it wouldn't allow a sign in:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/WbB1JqLP/offline03.jpg> Requires Google Account
>
> Notice the _newer_ versions of Google Maps now has a more graceful interface
> where it _knows_ there is no account set up on the phone, so it asks to
> create that account (which I'd have to be a fool to do, of course).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>
>
> I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>
>
> And now, it's more graceful in _asking_ for an account to be added
> <https://i.postimg.cc/mDmnxz0y/maps07.jpg>
>
> However, I recommend users _never_ allow the Google Maps app to turn on
> Location because I've tested this thoroughly and it turns on sleazy
> settings that no other mapping app turns on (to my knowledge).
> <https://i.postimg.cc/pry6PVvb/maps08.jpg>
>

The funny thing about that is the "add account" just goes away if I
touch it, without taking me to aa "add account" page.

On 7/8/2021 2:01 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 08.07.21 um 18:31 schrieb Ken Hart:
>> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> I did not encounter this issue on my Pixel 4 with Android 11.
>>> Google maps has no access to my contacts.
>>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>> What does your Pixel 4 with Android 11 say when you press Android
>> "Settings" & then "Apps" & then "Maps" & then "Permissions" & then
>> it provides a list of what's "Allowed" versus what's "Denied" there?
>
> Only permitted access is "Standort" (=location).
> All other accesses are denied.
>
> In a way you are Troll not giving me the credit being able to manage my
> apps. It is simple: Access to contacts is not needed for maps.
>

I disabled permission for contacts again, and when I try to download
offline maps, it now goes to the "allow maps to access your contacts"
button. I responded to that "deny" twice, and get "unfortunately, Maps
has stopped".

paul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote
>
>> Just to be sure, is there a Google account defined on your phone?
>
> The Google Maps app works fine _without_ needing a Google Account
> <https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>

Without ever creating a Google account when you got your new phone to
configure it, have you yet saved offline maps using the Google Maps app?
That was what the OP complained about: saving offline maps prompted for
a permission (to contacts). Are you saving offline maps in the Google
Maps app?

> I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>

But have you saved offline maps?

> The Google Maps app even ...

But have you saved offline maps? And with the latest version of the
Google Maps app as presumably that is what the OP has?

Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 7/8/2021 2:01 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 08.07.21 um 18:31 schrieb Ken Hart:
>>> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> I did not encounter this issue on my Pixel 4 with Android 11.
>>>> Google maps has no access to my contacts.
>>>
>>> Are you sure?
>>>
>>> What does your Pixel 4 with Android 11 say when you press Android
>>> "Settings" & then "Apps" & then "Maps" & then "Permissions" & then
>>> it provides a list of what's "Allowed" versus what's "Denied" there?
>>
>> Only permitted access is "Standort" (=location).
>> All other accesses are denied.
>>
>> In a way you are Troll not giving me the credit being able to manage my
>> apps. It is simple: Access to contacts is not needed for maps.
>>
>
> I disabled permission for contacts again, and when I try to download
> offline maps, it now goes to the "allow maps to access your contacts"
> button. I responded to that "deny" twice, and get "unfortunately, Maps
> has stopped".

Hmm, sounds like troubleshooting time. One would be to go into
Android's settings on apps, select Google Maps, go to storage, clear the
cache, and also clear the app's data (you'll get prompted to allow
that). Restart the phone and check how the Maps app behaves now. If
that doesn't help, uninstall the Maps app, and reinstall it.

Am 08.07.21 um 23:30 schrieb Bob F:
> On 7/8/2021 2:01 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> In a way you are Troll not giving me the credit being able to manage my
>> apps. It is simple: Access to contacts is not needed for maps.
>>
>
> I disabled permission for contacts again, and when I try to download
> offline maps, it now goes to the "allow maps to access your contacts"
> button. I responded to that "deny" twice, and get "unfortunately, Maps
> has stopped".

I do not use offline maps.
The data consumption of Maps is so low I always use it online to have
*always* the newest route and traffic information.
To give you an example: The 500 mile-ride from my place to the Côte
d'Azur in Sothern France used 60 MB.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 09.07.21 um 03:09 schrieb VanguardLH:
> Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I disabled permission for contacts again, and when I try to download
>> offline maps, it now goes to the "allow maps to access your contacts"
>> button. I responded to that "deny" twice, and get "unfortunately, Maps
>> has stopped".
>
> Hmm, sounds like troubleshooting time. One would be to go into
> Android's settings on apps, select Google Maps, go to storage, clear the
> cache, and also clear the app's data (you'll get prompted to allow
> that). Restart the phone and check how the Maps app behaves now. If
> that doesn't help, uninstall the Maps app, and reinstall it.

That would also be my next step. The old data should also be deleted.
That should help also in the case of offline maps.

Maps does not need access to contacts. Neither on Android nor on iOS.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 08.07.2021 21:01
> Am 08.07.21 um 18:31 schrieb Ken Hart:
>> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> I did not encounter this issue on my Pixel 4 with Android 11.
>>> Google maps has no access to my contacts.
>>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>> What does your Pixel 4 with Android 11 say when you press Android
>> "Settings" & then "Apps" & then "Maps" & then "Permissions" & then
>> it provides a list of what's "Allowed" versus what's "Denied" there?
>
> Only permitted access is "Standort" (=location).
> All other accesses are denied.
>
> In a way you are Troll not giving me the credit being able to manage my
> apps. It is simple: Access to contacts is not needed for maps.

*Jeorg Lorenz lied.*

Bear in mind for anyone responding to Joerg Lorenz is that he's stupid.
Even if he didn't lie, he's too stupid to know if his contacts are accessed.

The whole point is that the OP wanted to _download_ offline maps, and, for
that, Google Maps' access to contacts is, apparently required (AFAICT).

So, please, do not waste any of your time responding to Joerg Lorenz.
He lied.

Joerg is too stupid to realize this, so don't waste your time with him.
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al. (these people lie because they're ashamed of the facts)

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 09.07.2021 08:46
> I do not use offline maps.

In other words, *Joerg lied* and, worse, he's too stupid to realize that the
entire point is that offline maps requires an account which requires
contacts to be accessed.

It's bothersome that people as stupid as Joerg even exist, let alone that
they lie given his contacts were _clearly_ accessed (he lied about them).

Anyone discussing this with Joerg Lorenz is wasting their time as he's too
stupid to realized his contacts _are_ being accessed by Google.

Joerg lied about it.
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al. (these people are too stupid to even bother dealing with)

Am 08.07.21 um 23:30 schrieb Bob F:
> I disabled permission for contacts again, and when I try to download
> offline maps, it now goes to the "allow maps to access your contacts"
> button. I responded to that "deny" twice, and get "unfortunately, Maps
> has stopped".

Just for the sake of it I downloaded my regional offline-map. Maps did
not ask for the permission for additional access to anything.

Delete the app and delete all connected data and reinstall Maps after a
restart of the device.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Bob F wrote on 08.07.2021 22:50
>> Most Google apps should work fine _without_ needing a Google Account
>> (I think only the GMail app and the Google Voice app need an account).
>
> Google maps did not until recently for me. Now, it will not download
> offline maps.

That has been my experience also.

Google has changed what's required for online maps _many_ times over the
years, as I believe I'm the first person who reported it even exists (long
ago).

>> But they'll all give you an option to _create_ an account, that's for sure!
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/mDmnxz0y/maps07.jpg>
>
> Press the Add account in Google maps, the box goes away. Nothing else
> happens.

Mine goes to "Checking info" and then "Sign in or create account" when I
press the plus button next to "Add account".

But it doesn't really matter since the point is that currently, you can't
save an offline map using Google Maps unless you log in, and once you log
in, it insists on uploading your contacts (as far as I can tell).

Luckily, offline maps don't do much if you've already got an offline
navigation program such as MapFactor Navigator or OSMAnd~ (or equivalent).
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al. (these apologists turn every thread into their own cesspool).

VanguardLH wrote on 09.07.2021 03:03
>> The Google Maps app works fine _without_ needing a Google Account
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>
>
> Without ever creating a Google account when you got your new phone to
> configure it, have you yet saved offline maps using the Google Maps app?
> That was what the OP complained about: saving offline maps prompted for
> a permission (to contacts). Are you saving offline maps in the Google
> Maps app?

My experience is exactly the same, apparently, as that of the OP, where his
experiences mirror mine... which is the same that would happen, as far as I
can tell, to _anyone_ who doesn't set their Android OS to a google account.

>> I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>
>
> But have you saved offline maps?

As I have said many times, it can't be done currently without logging into a
Google Account, which I refuse to do (for privacy reasons). Of course, if I
log into a Google Account, it will save the offline maps, but the whole
point is to _not_ log into a Google Account.

There's an added complications that "some_ programs (such as Google Gmail
and Google Voice) will automatically _create_ an account on the phone in the
Android operating system, but I didn't test whether Google Maps is one of
those programs that automatically creates a Google Account on the phone
merely by the process of logging into the Google app.

I'll leave that exercise for others to test who care more about whether the
Google Maps app _creates_ a Google Account on the phone merely by the
process of logging into a google account using the Google Maps app.

>> The Google Maps app even ...
>
> But have you saved offline maps? And with the latest version of the
> Google Maps app as presumably that is what the OP has?

Vanguard... I'm the one who _first_ reported that Google Maps could be saved
offline to this newsgroup, years ago.

I was using the offline maps for _years_ and I have _many_ tutorials on the
topic if you simply search, where I also reported the 29/30 day iOS/Android
update requirements (many times).

As I said many times, in the past, Google Maps allowed you to save offline
maps _without_ logging into a Google Account, but currently, in my tests,
you must log into a Google Account to save offline maps. Period.

What are you trying to get at with your line of questioning that you can't
test yourself? My results mirror that of the OP who has a similar setup.

What are you trying to figure out that you can't test for yourself?
--
I'm not willing to log into Google Maps just to test this out given the OP
can do that himself if that's what he wants to do.

Bob F wrote on 08.07.2021 23:01
> Multiple. But I don't want my phone turning on wifi to access them
> unless I tell it to. I use K9 for email because it understands that.
>
> I use my phone for occasional phone calls or texts. Usually a few a week
> at most. I want the battery to need as little charging as possible for
> MY usage. I have only used mobile data a few times for testing purposes,
> which costs me 5 cents a Mb.

There are a ton of apps which manage your wifi and cellular data.

You might want to consider the NetGuard app which will allow you to prevent
any given app from using cellular data or wi-fi Internet on an app-by-app
basis. <https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard>

The Google Play version does everything but the ad blocking part, I think.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.netguard>

It doesn't require rooting.

Am 09.07.21 um 09:10 schrieb paul:
> Joerg Lorenz wrote on 09.07.2021 08:46
>> I do not use offline maps.
>
> In other words, *Joerg lied* and, worse, he's too stupid to realize that the
> entire point is that offline maps requires an account which requires
> contacts to be accessed.

I have an account with Google. But there is nothing because my contacts
are managed and synced with iCloud. I repeat: Maps has no access to
contacts. It is that simple.

> It's bothersome that people as stupid as Joerg even exist, let alone that
> they lie given his contacts were _clearly_ accessed (he lied about them).
>
> Anyone discussing this with Joerg Lorenz is wasting their time as he's too
> stupid to realized his contacts _are_ being accessed by Google.

You urgently need a *SHRINK*

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 09.07.2021 09:27
>> In other words, *Joerg lied* and, worse, he's too stupid to realize that the
>> entire point is that offline maps requires an account which requires
>> contacts to be accessed.
>
> I have an account with Google. But there is nothing because my contacts
> are managed and synced with iCloud. I repeat: Maps has no access to
> contacts. It is that simple.

Joerg,
I know what your phone is doing better than you do, because you're stupid.
And besides, you lied.

*We all know you lied.*
But even worse, you're too stupid to know Google has your contacts.

People like you who are as stupid as you are, actually bother me you exist.
It shouldn't be possible for people as stupid as you are to even exist.

Go away and infest the apple newsgroups please.
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al. (these people are all too stupid to know what their phone does)

Joerg Lorenz wrote on 09.07.2021 09:11
> Just for the sake of it I downloaded my regional offline-map. Maps did
> not ask for the permission for additional access to anything.
>
> Delete the app and delete all connected data and reinstall Maps after a
> restart of the device.

Jesus Christ.

Stop fabricating imaginary functionality Joerg.
You're going to send people on fruitless wild-goose chases by saying this.

You lied.
We all know you lied.

You're too stupid to realize what your phone is doing, Joerg.

Please stop making this shit up just because you're too stupid to know what
your own phone is doing.

Show us a screenshot, for example, of your Google Maps permissions.
You won't.

I know what's on your phone better than you do Joerg.
It irks me that people as stupid as you are can even exist in this world.

Go away please.
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al. (these people strain credularity by being shockingly stupid)

Am 09.07.21 um 09:07 schrieb paul:
> Joerg Lorenz wrote on 08.07.2021 21:01
>> In a way you are Troll not giving me the credit being able to manage my
>> apps. It is simple: Access to contacts is not needed for maps.
>
> *Jeorg Lorenz lied.*
>
> Bear in mind for anyone responding to Joerg Lorenz is that he's stupid.
> Even if he didn't lie, he's too stupid to know if his contacts are accessed.

We had a very specific point in the discussion. You missed it like
always. But that is not a surprise. Maps has only access to Location.
Full stop.

That Android is data hog is known. This is also the reason why Android
is so inferior to iOS with professional users. Google is misusing its
position for years. But antitrust authorities will soon change that.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 7/6/2021 9:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

<snip>

> Don't use the Google Maps apps if you don't like Google's requirements
> or the behavior of their map app. While I do use the Google Maps app, I
> also use the HERE maps app which lets me download offline map data by
> region (city, state, country) rather than have me use their online
> service to define a region and then download the map data for the
> user-specified region. I have an SD card, so that is where I store the
> offline map data for both map apps. I like HERE's regional boundaries
> for offline maps since I could easily travel outside the user-specified
> region in the Google Maps app. HERE's offline maps can cover far larger
> areas than what Google lets you pre-select.

I think that the offline maps on Google are too annoying because you
have to plan ahead to download them in sections.

When I'm traveling outside the U.S., where high-speed data usage can be
expensive, I use programs like CoPilot or OSMAnd where the maps are
stored on the phone. You can download entire countries. It takes a lot
of storage space, but on an Android phone with a MicroSD card slot this
is of little concern. Of course with offline maps you lose a lot of what
makes Waze and Google Maps so nice, real-time traffic information, road
hazard notification, etc.

In the U.S. I was a big fan of offline mapping apps like Copilot and
OSMAnd back when data was a lot more expensive than it is now. Now, data
usage of little concern (on my Verizon MVNO four of us share 100GB per
month for under $100 and we've never exceeded even 50% of that 100GB).

There are still times when offline maps are useful though. If you're
going through areas where your cellular carrier doesn't provide coverage
then offline maps are good to have. In the western U.S. there are vast
geographic areas where one carrier doesn't have coverage even on many
highways. Even on AT&T and Verizon there are some areas of Nevada and
Utah (along U.S. 50) where I found patches of no coverage last month,
though Waze does automatically download sufficient map data to cover
gaps, though I don't know what those limits are.

My view is that if you're giving up real-time traffic information and
using offline maps, whether to not use data, or because of a lack of
coverage, that you're better off using something other than Google maps.
YMMV.

sms wrote on 09.07.2021 17:27
> I think that the offline maps on Google are too annoying because you
> have to plan ahead to download them in sections.

I agree the offline Google Maps takes planning ahead of time to download.
<https://i.postimg.cc/05H6kD2p/offline01.jpg>

Worse, last I had tested them thoroughly, they expired rather quickly.

And, when I first tested them, you couldn't even organize your tiles.
(Although tile management of offline maps got better over time, IMHO.)

Last I tested offline Google maps (admittedly a while ago, as I gave up on
them due to the nonsense involved in constantly having to update them), I
could at least download them without logging into a Google Account.

Now you can't even do that.
<https://i.postimg.cc/tg5TLVMn/offline02.jpg>

> When I'm traveling outside the U.S., where high-speed data usage can be
> expensive, I use programs like CoPilot or OSMAnd where the maps are
> stored on the phone. You can download entire countries. It takes a lot
> of storage space, but on an Android phone with a MicroSD card slot this
> is of little concern.

Agreed that in today's modern phones, with _huge_ sdcards, the size of the
map downloads matters not the least bit (many have over 512GB of storage).

> Of course with offline maps you lose a lot of what
> makes Waze and Google Maps so nice, real-time traffic information, road
> hazard notification, etc.

The problem with Waze, last I checked, is you need to log into it.

The Android Google Maps app doesn't need a login for traffic.
Neither does a static web page set up for any given area of traffic.

In addition, I listed in another thread _hundreds_ of apps which give free
real time traffic around the world _without_ needing to log into anything.

These apps (e.g., 511.org & sigalert) provide real time traffic cameras, and
real time police reports, and real time accident & road closure details.
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=511%20traffic&c=apps>

All of these, combined, means that there is never a need for Google Maps,
although I do readily admit Google Maps is almost as good as it can get.

> In the U.S. I was a big fan of offline mapping apps like Copilot and
> OSMAnd back when data was a lot more expensive than it is now. Now, data
> usage of little concern (on my Verizon MVNO four of us share 100GB per
> month for under $100 and we've never exceeded even 50% of that 100GB).

I agree that "back in the day" when I had data blocks (on AT&T for example),
it mattered a lot to use offline road map apps, but now, everyone in the USA
with any data plan has full unlimited high speed (including 5G) data.

So, like you, I find no need, currently, to limit the amount of data used by
any apps, although it's still nice to have free no-root apps like NetGuard
which limit any given app to either Wi-Fi or cellular data (or neither).
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.faircode.netguard>

> There are still times when offline maps are useful though. If you're
> going through areas where your cellular carrier doesn't provide coverage
> then offline maps are good to have.

I used to anonymously scrape the Google Map POI db using "addresstogps" but
Google killed that wonderful service long ago, although I see in a quick
doublecheck that plenty of apps _say_ they do this address to gps lookup.
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=address%20to%20gps&c=apps>

What I do now, is anonymously look up an address in Google Maps app or, more
likely, in a browser shorcut set to the Google Maps web page, and once those
coordinates are in my clipboard, I can easily route using _any_ offline map
program.

I've tested _all_ the free offline map routing programs for the USA, where I
most prefer an older ad-free version of MapFactor Navigator for routing
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator>

Which is why I advocate auto saving APKs _before_ you install the app!
<https://i.postimg.cc/FFYqg9Dv/maps05.jpg>

Although plenty of people use the free ad free OSMAnd~ routing program:
<http://osmand.net/>

Note the F-Droid FOSS version is "more free" so to speak, than those.
<https://f-droid.org/forums/topic/osmand-vs-osmand/>

> In the western U.S. there are vast
> geographic areas where one carrier doesn't have coverage even on many
> highways. Even on AT&T and Verizon there are some areas of Nevada and
> Utah (along U.S. 50) where I found patches of no coverage last month,
> though Waze does automatically download sufficient map data to cover
> gaps, though I don't know what those limits are.

The problem with Waze, as I see it, is it requires a login just to work.
At least Google Maps (web site or app) doesn't require a login to work.
Neither do any of the good offline map routing programs.

For real time traffic, the thousands of sigalert & 511 apps work even
_better_ than do Google Maps for traffic because they provide real time
cameras, and real time construction, and detour information, and road
closure information, and even police reports which I use frequently.
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=sigalert&c=apps>

> My view is that if you're giving up real-time traffic information and
> using offline maps, whether to not use data, or because of a lack of
> coverage, that you're better off using something other than Google maps.
> YMMV.

What you give up is your privacy when you use Waze.
You also give up privacy when you _log into_ Google Maps.
Although there are ways to preserve your privacy when you need to.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NfsF7n4H/maps04.jpg>

And, the Google Maps app won't work if you can't connect to the net
(unless you've downloaded the offline maps, and that takes planning).
<https://i.postimg.cc/WbB1JqLP/offline03.jpg>

Luckily, Google Maps is (almost) as good as it gets, even _without_ logging
into any Google account (either a web page shortcut or the Maps app itself).
<https://i.postimg.cc/qqYQXB7Y/shortcut14.jpg>

The _combination_ of Google Maps with offline maps (and often, if time is
critical, with sigalert/511 apps), is the cat's meow, in my humble opinion.
<https://i.postimg.cc/2y2zKzwB/maps03.jpg>
--
Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, nospam, Rod Speed, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, Wolffan, Your Name,
et al.

Why do these dozen apologists brazenly deny what Apple is?
I don't know why.

I suspect they're ashamed & embarrassed Apple isn't what it says it is.

paul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> sms wrote on 09.07.2021 17:27
> > I think that the offline maps on Google are too annoying because you
> > have to plan ahead to download them in sections.
>
> I agree the offline Google Maps takes planning ahead of time to download.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/05H6kD2p/offline01.jpg>
>
> Worse, last I had tested them thoroughly, they expired rather quickly.
>
> And, when I first tested them, you couldn't even organize your tiles.
> (Although tile management of offline maps got better over time, IMHO.)
>
> Last I tested offline Google maps (admittedly a while ago, as I gave up on
> them due to the nonsense involved in constantly having to update them), I
> could at least download them without logging into a Google Account.
>
It's one of the reasons I use Here Wego, off line maps in that work
very well. You download maps for the areas you want to travel around,
tell Here Wego to work off-line and that's it.

I use it in an ancient Android phone without a SIM, since I regularly
leave it on my 'bike by mistake that's a good idea! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

On 7/9/2021 10:21 AM, Chris Green wrote:

<snip>

> It's one of the reasons I use Here Wego, off line maps in that work
> very well. You download maps for the areas you want to travel around,
> tell Here Wego to work off-line and that's it.
>
> I use it in an ancient Android phone without a SIM, since I regularly
> leave it on my 'bike by mistake that's a good idea! :-)

On a bike, with a phone with no SIM, offline maps make a lot of sense.
You're not worried about traffic congestion or speed traps so the
real-time information is of limited importance.

On the other hand, Google Maps has done a great job when it comes to
bicycle routing since it includes bicycle-only infrastructure, and it
sometimes includes roads that are open to cyclists but not cars. For
example, in my area there are quite a few intersections where cars are
not allowed to go straight across. This is done to prevent cut-through
traffic into residential neighborhoods. But bicycles are allowed to go
straight. Google Maps usually knows about these when you choose a
bicycle as your mode of transport. We also have a lot of bike bridges
over freeways as well as a lot of multi-use paths that are more direct
than using roads (as well as not having stop signs or traffic lights).

Google is very responsive when you submit a report that points out an
error or omission in Google Maps.

paul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote on 09.07.2021 03:03
>>> The Google Maps app works fine _without_ needing a Google Account
>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>
>>
>> Without ever creating a Google account when you got your new phone to
>> configure it, have you yet saved offline maps using the Google Maps app?
>> That was what the OP complained about: saving offline maps prompted for
>> a permission (to contacts). Are you saving offline maps in the Google
>> Maps app?
>
> My experience is exactly the same, apparently, as that of the OP, where his
> experiences mirror mine... which is the same that would happen, as far as I
> can tell, to _anyone_ who doesn't set their Android OS to a google account.
>
>>> I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>
>>
>> But have you saved offline maps?
>
> As I have said many times, it can't be done currently without logging into a
> Google Account, which I refuse to do (for privacy reasons). Of course, if I
> log into a Google Account, it will save the offline maps, but the whole
> point is to _not_ log into a Google Account.
>
> There's an added complications that "some_ programs (such as Google Gmail
> and Google Voice) will automatically _create_ an account on the phone in the
> Android operating system, but I didn't test whether Google Maps is one of
> those programs that automatically creates a Google Account on the phone
> merely by the process of logging into the Google app.
>
> I'll leave that exercise for others to test who care more about whether the
> Google Maps app _creates_ a Google Account on the phone merely by the
> process of logging into a google account using the Google Maps app.
>
>>> The Google Maps app even ...
>>
>> But have you saved offline maps? And with the latest version of the
>> Google Maps app as presumably that is what the OP has?
>
> Vanguard... I'm the one who _first_ reported that Google Maps could be saved
> offline to this newsgroup, years ago.
>
> I was using the offline maps for _years_ and I have _many_ tutorials on the
> topic if you simply search, where I also reported the 29/30 day iOS/Android
> update requirements (many times).
>
> As I said many times, in the past, Google Maps allowed you to save offline
> maps _without_ logging into a Google Account, but currently, in my tests,
> you must log into a Google Account to save offline maps. Period.
>
> What are you trying to get at with your line of questioning that you can't
> test yourself? My results mirror that of the OP who has a similar setup.
>
> What are you trying to figure out that you can't test for yourself?

I do have a Google account, and the app does login, so I cannot emulate
the situation.

It appears there has been a change from how the process was working
years ago. Things change. Google now wants you to login if you are
going to consume their bandwidth to download offline maps. Non-Google
users can do the online maps stuff.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Don't use the Google Maps apps if you don't like Google's
>> requirements or the behavior of their map app. While I do use the
>> Google Maps app, I also use the HERE maps app which lets me download
>> offline map data by region (city, state, country) rather than have
>> me use their online service to define a region and then download the
>> map data for the user-specified region. I have an SD card, so that
>> is where I store the offline map data for both map apps. I like
>> HERE's regional boundaries for offline maps since I could easily
>> travel outside the user-specified region in the Google Maps app.
>> HERE's offline maps can cover far larger areas than what Google lets
>> you pre-select.
>
> I think that the offline maps on Google are too annoying because you
> have to plan ahead to download them in sections.

And why I augment Google Maps with Here[wego] Maps. When vacationing, I
know where I'll be staying and the areas I will visit, but plans change,
and I could easily travel outside the pre-selected map area that got
downloaded for use offline. HERE maps let you select by city, state, or
country, or continent, so you can get some rather large maps; however,
bigger maps means more storage space, but luckily I added an SD card
that is far more than adequate to store offline maps for both Google
Maps and Here Maps.

If you're doing a road trip, like halfway across the country, offline
maps for Google Maps are useless unless you create many overlapping
offline maps along your planned route. With HERE, I can download all of
the North and Central America (7.2 GB), Africa (2 GB), Asia (7.6 GB),
Australia/Oceania (0.8 GB), Europe (12 GB), and South America (2.4 GB)
regions. As I recall, 128 GB is the largest sized SD card usable in my
phone, so that's what I got after getting the phone.

With all the gigabytes all those regions consume, and if you get them
all, I would suggest to make sure your phone is connected to a wifi
hotspot. Despite having a wifi connection, downloads can take a long
time because their server will throttle your connection to afford some
response to connections from other hosts.

Unlike some apps that let you select cellular+wifi or just wifi for
Internet connections, the HERE Maps doesn't have that option. So, you
need to make sure you have a wifi connection from your phone before
downloading those huge maps unless you happen to have unlimited data,
but that'll be slower than a wifi connection, so you'd be punished with
longer download times with cellular data.

> There are still times when offline maps are useful though. If you're
> going through areas where your cellular carrier doesn't provide coverage
> then offline maps are good to have.

Those commercials regarding coverage are misleading. They'll say "We
cover 99% of all users". That is NOT the same as 99% of the land mass.
Humans are not evenly distributed across the land mass.

There is also the problem that even in a "red" (high coverage) area in
their coverage maps, you may still not get a good connection. My area
is shows as red in the coverage maps of every cellular provider, yet
their towers are at the top of high hills, and I'm in a low river
valley. I'm lucky to get 3 signal bars, but going into the basement
barely gives me 1 bar, and most times less. When driving through
mountainous areas, connections come and go.

I'm still waiting for Tesla's scheme of using Earth as an antenna
(Wardenclyffe Tower) becomes a reality. No cell towers, no antenna
towers, no satellites, just your phone and that big clod of dirt.

In article <1pmiemwfl2ez6$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
wrote:

>
> And why I augment Google Maps with Here[wego] Maps. When vacationing, I
> know where I'll be staying and the areas I will visit, but plans change,
> and I could easily travel outside the pre-selected map area that got
> downloaded for use offline. HERE maps let you select by city, state, or
> country, or continent, so you can get some rather large maps; however,
> bigger maps means more storage space, but luckily I added an SD card
> that is far more than adequate to store offline maps for both Google
> Maps and Here Maps.
>
> If you're doing a road trip, like halfway across the country, offline
> maps for Google Maps are useless unless you create many overlapping
> offline maps along your planned route. With HERE, I can download all of
> the North and Central America (7.2 GB), Africa (2 GB), Asia (7.6 GB),
> Australia/Oceania (0.8 GB), Europe (12 GB), and South America (2.4 GB)
> regions. As I recall, 128 GB is the largest sized SD card usable in my
> phone, so that's what I got after getting the phone.

if you're doing a road trip halfway across the country, you only need
half of that country, not the entire planet. you also only need areas
along the route, not parts you have no intentions of visiting.

you say that here maps has granularity as little as individual cities,
so the total amount to store won't be that much.

for devices with limited space, only the next day's worth of maps is
needed (or two days to be safe), which can be updated overnight at the
hotel or campground or wherever.

> With all the gigabytes all those regions consume, and if you get them
> all, I would suggest to make sure your phone is connected to a wifi
> hotspot. Despite having a wifi connection, downloads can take a long
> time because their server will throttle your connection to afford some
> response to connections from other hosts.
>
> Unlike some apps that let you select cellular+wifi or just wifi for
> Internet connections, the HERE Maps doesn't have that option.

the phone does.

> So, you
> need to make sure you have a wifi connection from your phone before
> downloading those huge maps unless you happen to have unlimited data,
> but that'll be slower than a wifi connection, so you'd be punished with
> longer download times with cellular data.

lte advanced (aka gigabit lte) and certainly 5g will be faster than
wifi in nearly every case.

very few people have gigabit internet and most phones couldn't take
full advantage of that even if they did.

using cellular will consume plan bandwidth, but it should only be a
couple of gig at the most, which is not a big deal.

On 7/9/2021 5:53 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> Don't use the Google Maps apps if you don't like Google's
>>> requirements or the behavior of their map app. While I do use the
>>> Google Maps app, I also use the HERE maps app which lets me download
>>> offline map data by region (city, state, country) rather than have
>>> me use their online service to define a region and then download the
>>> map data for the user-specified region. I have an SD card, so that
>>> is where I store the offline map data for both map apps. I like
>>> HERE's regional boundaries for offline maps since I could easily
>>> travel outside the user-specified region in the Google Maps app.
>>> HERE's offline maps can cover far larger areas than what Google lets
>>> you pre-select.
>>
>> I think that the offline maps on Google are too annoying because you
>> have to plan ahead to download them in sections.
>
> And why I augment Google Maps with Here[wego] Maps. When vacationing, I
> know where I'll be staying and the areas I will visit, but plans change,
> and I could easily travel outside the pre-selected map area that got
> downloaded for use offline. HERE maps let you select by city, state, or
> country, or continent, so you can get some rather large maps; however,
> bigger maps means more storage space, but luckily I added an SD card
> that is far more than adequate to store offline maps for both Google
> Maps and Here Maps.
>
> If you're doing a road trip, like halfway across the country, offline
> maps for Google Maps are useless unless you create many overlapping
> offline maps along your planned route. With HERE, I can download all of
> the North and Central America (7.2 GB), Africa (2 GB), Asia (7.6 GB),
> Australia/Oceania (0.8 GB), Europe (12 GB), and South America (2.4 GB)
> regions. As I recall, 128 GB is the largest sized SD card usable in my
> phone, so that's what I got after getting the phone.
>
> With all the gigabytes all those regions consume, and if you get them
> all, I would suggest to make sure your phone is connected to a wifi
> hotspot. Despite having a wifi connection, downloads can take a long
> time because their server will throttle your connection to afford some
> response to connections from other hosts.
>
> Unlike some apps that let you select cellular+wifi or just wifi for
> Internet connections, the HERE Maps doesn't have that option. So, you
> need to make sure you have a wifi connection from your phone before
> downloading those huge maps unless you happen to have unlimited data,
> but that'll be slower than a wifi connection, so you'd be punished with
> longer download times with cellular data.
>
>> There are still times when offline maps are useful though. If you're
>> going through areas where your cellular carrier doesn't provide coverage
>> then offline maps are good to have.
>
> Those commercials regarding coverage are misleading. They'll say "We
> cover 99% of all users". That is NOT the same as 99% of the land mass.
> Humans are not evenly distributed across the land mass.

The poorer carriers always use "users" when they do the percentage of
coverage. On a recent long road trip through California, Nevada,
Arizona, and Utah, even on rural roads, there was Verizon coverage most
of the time, though there were a few gaps with no coverage. AT&T had
similar coverage.

> There is also the problem that even in a "red" (high coverage) area in
> their coverage maps, you may still not get a good connection. My area
> is shows as red in the coverage maps of every cellular provider, yet
> their towers are at the top of high hills, and I'm in a low river
> valley. I'm lucky to get 3 signal bars, but going into the basement
> barely gives me 1 bar, and most times less. When driving through
> mountainous areas, connections come and go.

Actually I've had Verizon coverage in areas where their maps show no
coverage. They seem to be more conservative in their coverage maps than
I would have expected.

On 7/9/2021 5:21 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> paul <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote on 09.07.2021 03:03
>>>> The Google Maps app works fine _without_ needing a Google Account
>>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/wBcPVb2P/maps05.jpg>
>>>
>>> Without ever creating a Google account when you got your new phone to
>>> configure it, have you yet saved offline maps using the Google Maps app?
>>> That was what the OP complained about: saving offline maps prompted for
>>> a permission (to contacts). Are you saving offline maps in the Google
>>> Maps app?
>>
>> My experience is exactly the same, apparently, as that of the OP, where his
>> experiences mirror mine... which is the same that would happen, as far as I
>> can tell, to _anyone_ who doesn't set their Android OS to a google account.
>>
>>>> I can run a search & get routing directions _without_ a Google Account
>>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9rPyfyS/maps06.jpg>
>>>
>>> But have you saved offline maps?
>>
>> As I have said many times, it can't be done currently without logging into a
>> Google Account, which I refuse to do (for privacy reasons). Of course, if I
>> log into a Google Account, it will save the offline maps, but the whole
>> point is to _not_ log into a Google Account.
>>
>> There's an added complications that "some_ programs (such as Google Gmail
>> and Google Voice) will automatically _create_ an account on the phone in the
>> Android operating system, but I didn't test whether Google Maps is one of
>> those programs that automatically creates a Google Account on the phone
>> merely by the process of logging into the Google app.
>>
>> I'll leave that exercise for others to test who care more about whether the
>> Google Maps app _creates_ a Google Account on the phone merely by the
>> process of logging into a google account using the Google Maps app.
>>
>>>> The Google Maps app even ...
>>>
>>> But have you saved offline maps? And with the latest version of the
>>> Google Maps app as presumably that is what the OP has?
>>
>> Vanguard... I'm the one who _first_ reported that Google Maps could be saved
>> offline to this newsgroup, years ago.
>>
>> I was using the offline maps for _years_ and I have _many_ tutorials on the
>> topic if you simply search, where I also reported the 29/30 day iOS/Android
>> update requirements (many times).
>>
>> As I said many times, in the past, Google Maps allowed you to save offline
>> maps _without_ logging into a Google Account, but currently, in my tests,
>> you must log into a Google Account to save offline maps. Period.
>>
>> What are you trying to get at with your line of questioning that you can't
>> test yourself? My results mirror that of the OP who has a similar setup.
>>
>> What are you trying to figure out that you can't test for yourself?
>
> I do have a Google account, and the app does login, so I cannot emulate
> the situation.
>
> It appears there has been a change from how the process was working
> years ago. Things change. Google now wants you to login if you are
> going to consume their bandwidth to download offline maps. Non-Google
> users can do the online maps stuff.
>

This is a recent change. I last downloaded a map probably less than a
month ago. I have not updated the maps app for a couple years.

I updated the map recently because the one I had, which was supposed to
be good for a year went away early. The new one was only good for a
month, which was the way it was up to a year or so ago. Now, I cannot
get an offline map at all.

Thanks again for all the info you have offered. I will try out
alternatives when I get a gap in summer projects.