I recall in EE school when one of the graduate assistants bought one of
the first HP calculators. It cost around $600 which was for me a
month's pay if not more.

Dan
5J

On 12/23/22 13:48, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:05:31 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> A B-52 can easily fly with a couple (or more!) engines out.
>
> Speaking about the B-52, HP created a plug-in module for their HP41C calculator to continue nav and "other" functions in case the onboard systems died for some reason.

On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 12:37:11 PM UTC-8, n5...@comcast.net wrote:
> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:15:34 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > Are we talking about RPN here? Most engineers of my vintage will know
> > what I'm talking about but I don't want to spell it out for fear of
> > being called "racist". Again... I never could get used to that. RPN...
> >
> > Dan
> > 5J
> > On 12/23/22 07:38, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:26:18 PM UTC-8, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > >>>> All a manifestation of too few people taking science class. Too many marketing degrees and too few scientists.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> UH
> > >>> Well, Hank - that's where the money in US corporations is (unfortunately)! I am an engineer and have worked and still work for large companies - ask me how I know. :-{
> > >> And if it isn't bad enough, with MBAs taking precedence over engineering, just watch what happens with politicians and unicorn herders thinking they can repeal the Laws of Physics and Thermodynamics.
> > >>
> > >> "Hope is not a strategy."
> > >
> > > Perhaps a bit of MBA and engineering working together is the way to go. I was there when HP's calculator division went belly up because it was run 100% by engineers and would NOT listen to their MBA's about what the market wanted. The engineers arrogance was palpable in the office. A few years later production was off shore and almost no new devices were developed. HP went on to other products.
> LOL. No. RPN had nothing to do with it. Product features, demographics of the target markets, and pricing to name just a few factors caused the demise of the calculator division. TI listened to the broad market and HP didn't.
Ti did and still does make a crap calculator compared to anything HP put out. I guess there are some things you just can't make a self respecting engineer do :-). I still have a functioning HP 67 (complete with card reader) sitting here. Also an HP 100LX which ran DOS - speaking of things a self respecting engineer shouldn't do - on which I ran the very first sailplane moving map/tactical computer, written by Chip Garner I think. Now however, when I need a calculator I just use my iPhone which can be set up to look like an HP calculator. Using RPN, of course.

On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 7:41:34 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 12/23/2022 6:11 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
> > On 12/23/2022 12:01 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >> The battery fire doesn't seem like the big news for Beta Technologies: they have orders
> >> for several hundred of it's Alia 250 aircraft from UPS and other companies, and the Alia
> >> 250 has made a number of cross-country trips, including one of 5 days and 876 mile.
> >>
> >> https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2022-12-19/beta-makes-second-cross-country-evtol-flight-charging-infrastructure
> >
> > While the XC flight is impressive, ask a few questions:
> >
> > 1) the pictures show lift props not installed and area faired;
> > much less drag (and maybe weight) than expected configuration?
> >
> > 2) What was the weight at which they flew, and payload?
> >
> > 3) Has it done vertical take-offs through transitions? What is the expected range given
> > high energy use during vertical flight?
> >
> The article says the current prototype is configured as CTOL - conventional takeoff and
> landing - and will be certified first. The second prototype is configured as a VTOL, and
> has made several test flights. It's certification will be about two years after the CTOL,
> as I recall.
>
> I didn't see (and didn't look for) any detailed performance numbers. My impression is the
> XC was important as a "meet and greet" trip to show people it could operate like a gas
> engine aircraft at multiple airports with traffic and ATC, and that there were chargers at
> the airports that could recharge it quickly.
>
> Check out their many flights using FlightAware and the tail number N250UT.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - USA
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
https://lilium.com/jet

> https://lilium.com/jet

Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.

On 12/23/22 8:25 PM, Mark Mocho wrote:
>> https://lilium.com/jet
>
> Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.

It will be a lot of batteries they're hauling. 36 small ducted fans are
going to be sucking a bunch of power, and making quite a racket.

Took forever for these guys to demonstrate a transition from vertical to
horizontal flight, plus they burned up one of their prototypes a while
back. The eVTOL market is way too crowded for these guys to survive.
IMMHO.

On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 6:46:56 PM UTC-8, d...@nadler.com wrote:
> On 12/21/2022 7:29 PM, kinsell wrote:
> > https://dronexl.co/2022/07/28/passenger-drone-evtol-catches-fire/
> >
> > Having a little trouble with the Guardian, Aura Aerospace is setting
> > their sights higher, announcing the Ranger with range to fly half way
> > around the world:
> >
> > https://newatlas.com/aircraft/aura-ranger-long-range-evtol/
> >
> > Hope it works better than the first one.
> How bout this one:
> https://www.futureflight.aero/news-article/2022-09-01/beta-evtol-aircraft-battery-catches-fire-while-awaiting-ground-testing?utm_source=Electric+VTOL+News&utm_campaign=dafe86c45f-eVTOL+eNews%2C+Sept+29%2C+2017_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_5d82db6e49-dafe86c45f-50854323

Here is an excerpt:

"While lithium-ion battery fires are relatively rare, they do pose a risk that electric aircraft developers need to take seriously. According to Luminati Aerospace CEO Daniel Preston, just about every major eVTOL developer has experienced a fire caused by lithium-ion batteries, though these incidents are not always reported to the public.

One recent high-profile fire took place in January 2020, when a battery fire severely damaged Eviation’s Alice all-electric commuter aircraft during ground testing at Prescott Regional Airport in Arizona. Just a few weeks later, Lilium Air Mobility’s first full-scale eVTOL technology demonstrator was destroyed when a battery fire broke out during ground maintenance activities at the company’s headquarters near Munich."
====================All electric aircraft developers should be required to publish the results of their investigation into these fires to help eliminate them. It just isn't good enough that an event that will result in the loss of the aircraft is "rare," whatever that means.

On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 8:40:43 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> On 12/23/22 8:25 PM, Mark Mocho wrote:
> >> https://lilium.com/jet
> >
> > Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
> It will be a lot of batteries they're hauling. 36 small ducted fans are
> going to be sucking a bunch of power, and making quite a racket.
>
> Took forever for these guys to demonstrate a transition from vertical to
> horizontal flight, plus they burned up one of their prototypes a while
> back. The eVTOL market is way too crowded for these guys to survive.
> IMMHO.
A paradigm shift might change the game, though AFAIK none have yet been constructed in sizes to power a vehicle.
https://drexel.edu/news/archive/2022/february/lithium-sulfur-cathode-carbonate-electrolyte

I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit.
Did I miss something?

Dan
5J

On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
>> https://lilium.com/jet
>
> Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.

On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit.
> Did I miss something?
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
> >> https://lilium.com/jet
> >
> > Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.

They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.

Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?

Dan
5J

On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit.
>> Did I miss something?
>>
>> Dan
>> 5J
>> On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
>>>> https://lilium.com/jet
>>>
>>> Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
>
> They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.

On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 11:18:17 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit.
> >> Did I miss something?
> >>
> >> Dan
> >> 5J
> >> On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
> >>>> https://lilium.com/jet
> >>>
> >>> Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
> >
> > They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.

Hello - they're doing it already!

On 12/24/2022 3:12 PM, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 11:18:17 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
>>
>> Dan
>> 5J
>> On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
>>> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit.
>>>> Did I miss something?
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>> 5J
>>>> On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
>>>>>> https://lilium.com/jet
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
>>>
>>> They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.
>
> Hello - they're doing it already!

Yep, and not just the airliners. You can buy a Garmin "Save my ass" system that will
detect you are incapacitated, then it'll find a landable airport it can get to, then go
there, make radio calls, and land.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:18:17 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit.
> >> Did I miss something?
> >>
> >> Dan
> >> 5J
> >> On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
> >>>> https://lilium.com/jet
> >>>
> >>> Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
> >
> > They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.

Hi, I'm HAL, how can I assist you? No, I won't open the outer door....l....

On 12/24/2022 8:49 PM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 2:18:17 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
>>
>> Dan
>> 5J
>> On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
>>> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a cockpit.
>>>> Did I miss something?
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>> 5J
>>>> On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
>>>>>> https://lilium.com/jet
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
>>>
>>> They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.
>
> Hi, I'm HAL, how can I assist you? No, I won't open the outer door....l....
>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31j_A2BC8kA

Not in any aircraft that I can afford.

Dan
5J

On 12/24/22 16:20, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 12/24/2022 3:12 PM, 2G wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 11:18:17 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>> Oh, yeah... I'll let a computer fly me around. What could go wrong?
>>>
>>> Dan
>>> 5J
>>> On 12/24/22 10:28, 2G wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 8:25:33 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>>> I was looking at their interior configurations and didn't see a
>>>>> cockpit.
>>>>> Did I miss something?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>> 5J
>>>>> On 12/23/22 20:25, Mark Mocho wrote:
>>>>>>> https://lilium.com/jet
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like a great way to haul batteries around.
>>>>
>>>> They will be pilotless. A pilot is a lot of dead weight.
>>
>> Hello - they're doing it already!
>
> Yep, and not just the airliners. You can buy a Garmin "Save my ass"
> system that will detect you are incapacitated, then it'll find a
> landable airport it can get to, then go there, make radio calls, and land.