I know that even most new flagship Android phones have dropped the FM
radio, and iPhones never had one to begin with (even though early iPhone
chipsets did have the FM radio hardware capability embedded).

This morning I was working out on an elliptical at the gym that I go to
and there were three televisions, each with different programming,
showing. Underneath each television monitor there was a sign with an FM
frequency. You tune to that frequency with an FM radio to get the audio.
There's a low-power FM (LPFM) transmitter on the shelf above each monitor.

I only had my iPhone with me so I could not get the audio. Next time I
go there I'm going to bring along one of my Android devices that has an
FM radio to try it out and see how well it works. Of course you could
also bring along a separate FM radio with Bluetooth or a headphone jack,
but I've never seen anyone go to that much trouble.

What would be better would be if they used Bluetooth Audio LE broadcast,
aka Auracast: "Auracast will also be useful in public places, where for
instance, users could listen to the audio from muted televisions at
airports, gymnasiums, or train stations, and public announcements (e.g.
gate changes, boarding announcements…)."
<https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/06/09/bluetooth-auracast-broadcast-audio-is-new-name-for-bluetooth-le-audio-sharing/>
but AFAIK this system hasn't been deployed anywhere yet. I doubt that
the health club that I go to would spend the money on something like
this either. At another gym I go to, they have the TVs on at low volume,
with all of them tuned to the same programming.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 15:31:30 -0700, sms wrote:

> I know that even most new flagship Android phones have dropped the FM
> radio, and iPhones never had one to begin with (even though early iPhone
> chipsets did have the FM radio hardware capability embedded).

https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
2019 to today number of Android phones (not tablets) = 1850 = 100%

https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nRamMin=6000&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
Android phones with >=6GB RAM = 1119 = 60%

https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nCPUCoresMin=8&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
Android phones with >=8 CPU cores = 1643 = 89%

https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
Android phones with FM radio = 1031 = 56%

https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
Android phones with 3.5mm jack = 1440 = 78%

https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkUSBC=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
Android phones with USB-C = 1341 = 72%

https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nBatCapacityMin=5000&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
Android phones with >=5,000mAh Battery = 733 = 40%

https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1
Android phones with Removable Battery = 82 = 4%

https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nChargingWMin=1&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
Android phones with wireless charging = 161 = 9%

On 8/15/2022 3:31 PM, sms wrote:

> I know that even most new flagship Android phones have dropped the FM
> radio

Probably because most folks likely don't want to carry around or have
the hassle of using the required wired earphone/antenna these days.

> This morning I was working out on an elliptical at the gym that I go
> to and there were three televisions, each with different programming,
> showing. Underneath each television monitor there was a sign with an
> FM frequency. You tune to that frequency with an FM radio to get the
> audio.

Do they have WiFi? Does the elliptical have a tablet shelf? If yes I'd
bring a small tablet and watch what I want instead of being stuck with
what they have.

The treadmill I use has both so that's what I do. But then it's in the
comfort of my own home... ;)

On 8/15/2022 8:51 PM, dan wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 15:31:30 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>> I know that even most new flagship Android phones have dropped the FM
>> radio, and iPhones never had one to begin with (even though early iPhone
>> chipsets did have the FM radio hardware capability embedded).
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> 2019 to today number of Android phones (not tablets) = 1850 = 100%
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nRamMin=6000&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with >=6GB RAM = 1119 = 60%
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nCPUCoresMin=8&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with >=8 CPU cores = 1643 = 89%
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with FM radio = 1031 = 56%
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with 3.5mm jack = 1440 = 78%
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkUSBC=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with USB-C = 1341 = 72%
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nBatCapacityMin=5000&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with >=5,000mAh Battery = 733 = 40%
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1
> Android phones with Removable Battery = 82 = 4%
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nChargingWMin=1&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with wireless charging = 161 = 9%

By those figures FM radios are on more than half of current Android phones.

Am 16.08.22 um 07:25 schrieb knuttle:
> On 8/15/2022 8:51 PM, dan wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 15:31:30 -0700, sms wrote:
>>
>>> I know that even most new flagship Android phones have dropped the FM
>>> radio, and iPhones never had one to begin with (even though early iPhone
>>> chipsets did have the FM radio hardware capability embedded).
>>
>> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
>> 2019 to today number of Android phones (not tablets) = 1850 = 100%
>>
>> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nRamMin=6000&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
>> Android phones with >=6GB RAM = 1119 = 60%
>>
>> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nCPUCoresMin=8&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
>> Android phones with >=8 CPU cores = 1643 = 89%
>>
>> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
>> Android phones with FM radio = 1031 = 56%
>>
>> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
>> Android phones with 3.5mm jack = 1440 = 78%
>>
>> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkUSBC=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
>> Android phones with USB-C = 1341 = 72%
>>
>> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nBatCapacityMin=5000&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
>> Android phones with >=5,000mAh Battery = 733 = 40%
>>
>> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2&idBatRemovable=1
>> Android phones with Removable Battery = 82 = 4%
>>
>> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nChargingWMin=1&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
>> Android phones with wireless charging = 161 = 9%
>
> By those figures FM radios are on more than half of current Android phones.

Completely irrelevant. FM will be shut down in a year in Switzerland and
in ca. 3 years in the EU.

Today DAB+ is the standard. Or even better and smarter is a radio app to
stream content.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 8/15/2022 5:51 PM, dan wrote:

<snip>

> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&nCPUCoresMin=8&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with >=8 CPU cores = 1643 = 89%

Counting CPU cores is meaningless. You can have a very slow CPU with
eight cores and a very fast CPU with four cores.
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with FM radio = 1031 = 56%
>
> https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2019&chk35mm=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2
> Android phones with 3.5mm jack = 1440 = 78%

Unfortunately, more and more Android devices are being decontented with
the headphone jack being removed, which also causes the loss of other
functionality like the FM radio.

On 8/15/2022 9:23 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 8/15/2022 3:31 PM, sms wrote:
>
>> I know that even most new flagship Android phones have dropped the FM
>> radio
>
> Probably because most folks likely don't want to carry around or have
> the hassle of using the required wired earphone/antenna these days.

FM radios on some Android phones work without wired headphones, as long
as there's a strong signal. On my newest Android device, a mid-range 5G
phone, I get this message when I turn on the FM radio
<https://i.imgur.com/hesq5rq.png>:

"Headphones act as an antenna for the radio, so you may experience lower
audio quality if you don't plug them in. If you'd like to listen on
another device, choose from the options below

Bluetooth

Loudspeaker"

Also, you can plug an FM antenna into the headphone jack, i.e.
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803892269095.html> and still use
Bluetooth earpods.

>> This morning I was working out on an elliptical at the gym that I go
>> to and there were three televisions, each with different programming,
>> showing. Underneath each television monitor there was a sign with an
>> FM frequency. You tune to that frequency with an FM radio to get the
>> audio.
>
> Do they have WiFi? Does the elliptical have a tablet shelf? If yes I'd
> bring a small tablet and watch what I want instead of being stuck with
> what they have.

There is Wi-Fi throughout the building and at least part of the outside
areas like by the pools, so I usually just use Amazon Prime music or
music stored on the phone.

There is a tablet shelf on some equipment. Some of the newer ellipticals
essentially have a tablet built in with an Internet browser and some
apps (Netflix, Spotify, Pandora, etc.).

I really don't want to be bringing one of my tablets to the gym, The
most I really want to carry around is a water bottle and a phone,
preferably a small phone.

Besides the elliptical, I use other equipment that doesn't have anyplace
for a tablet or phone, like the rowing machine and the weight equipment.

In any case, the large screen TVs are more practical to watch when
working out, as long as you can get the audio. The new Bluetooth LE
broadcast mode will be very useful, as long as it is synced with the
video when used in that way (FM transmitters have no perceptible delay),
and it would work with phones that have no FM receiver.

Note that most radio stations also stream their programming, so as long
as you're willing to use your data, or if you have Wi-Fi access, you can
listen to broadcast stations that way. But that usage model doesn't work
with LPFM transmitters like the ones in gyms.

I'd say that at least 80% of the people listening to music when working
out in that facility are using an iPhone and genuine Airpods. I usually
use my iPhone and my Bluetooth earpods (not Airpods, I bought some
higher-end Bluetooth earpods that support aptX Lossless audio
(supposedly the AirPods Pro 2, coming soon, will support some form of
lossless audio either aptX or something else)); I go into this in the
document <<https://tinyurl.com/iOS-Android-Features>, #143a on page 64.

On 8/15/2022 10:25 PM, knuttle wrote:

<snip>

> By those figures FM radios are on more than half of current Android phones.

No, they're on more than half of Android phones in use. They're not on
more than half of new models.

119 current (2022) Android phones with an FM radio
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2022&chkFMradio=selected&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2>

325 current (2022) Android phones
<https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2022&sAvailabilities=1&sOSes=2>

Also, most of the phones that do have an FM radio are not phones sold in
the U.S..

Am 16.08.22 um 11:39 schrieb sms:
> On 8/15/2022 10:25 PM, knuttle wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> By those figures FM radios are on more than half of current Android phones.
>
> No, they're on more than half of Android phones in use. They're not on
> more than half of new models.

Android phones are completely outdated when new. *SCNR*
FM in a digital device is simply ridiculous.

Only users 70+ are using FM anyway.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

In article <tdfif0$k4c$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately, more and more Android devices are being decontented with
> the headphone jack being removed, which also causes the loss of other
> functionality like the FM radio.

almost nobody uses the fm radio on a phone, and the space needed for
the analog headphone jack can be repurposed for other features, that
people actually do use, which makes for a more compelling product.

those who do want to use wired headphones can continue to do so via the
usb-c or lightning port, depending on the phone.

On 2022-08-16 00:31, sms wrote:
> I know that even most new flagship Android phones have dropped the FM
> radio, and iPhones never had one to begin with (even though early iPhone
> chipsets did have the FM radio hardware capability embedded).
>
> This morning I was working out on an elliptical at the gym that I go to
> and there were three televisions, each with different programming,
> showing. Underneath each television monitor there was a sign with an FM
> frequency. You tune to that frequency with an FM radio to get the audio.
> There's a low-power FM (LPFM) transmitter on the shelf above each monitor.
>
> I only had my iPhone with me so I could not get the audio. Next time I
> go there I'm going to bring along one of my Android devices that has an
> FM radio to try it out and see how well it works. Of course you could
> also bring along a separate FM radio with Bluetooth or a headphone jack,
> but I've never seen anyone go to that much trouble.

I think that there are headsets with an FM receiver in them, so you
don't need anything else. Yes, confirmed, Amazon has them. Most of them
have both BT and FM.

<https://www.amazon.es/auriculares-radio-incorporada/s?k=auriculares+con+radio+incorporada>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 8/16/2022 4:45 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2022-08-16 00:31, sms wrote:
>> I know that even most new flagship Android phones have dropped the FM
>> radio, and iPhones never had one to begin with (even though early
>> iPhone chipsets did have the FM radio hardware capability embedded).
>>
>> This morning I was working out on an elliptical at the gym that I go
>> to and there were three televisions, each with different programming,
>> showing. Underneath each television monitor there was a sign with an
>> FM frequency. You tune to that frequency with an FM radio to get the
>> audio. There's a low-power FM (LPFM) transmitter on the shelf above
>> each monitor.
>>
>> I only had my iPhone with me so I could not get the audio. Next time I
>> go there I'm going to bring along one of my Android devices that has
>> an FM radio to try it out and see how well it works. Of course you
>> could also bring along a separate FM radio with Bluetooth or a
>> headphone jack, but I've never seen anyone go to that much trouble.
>
> I think that there are headsets with an FM receiver in them, so you
> don't need anything else. Yes, confirmed, Amazon has them. Most of them
> have both BT and FM.

You really wouldn't want to be wearing a large headset while exercising.

Something like this would be okay <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C588X7P>.

On 8/16/2022 1:57 AM, sms wrote:

> FM radios on some Android phones work without wired headphones, as
> long as there's a strong signal.

Several websites say that my Galaxy S10+ supports FM radio but that the
phone didn't come with an app to use it. They suggest downloading the
Nextradio app. But when I try it, it says "FM Radio Is Unavailable".
Perhaps an upgrade broke it? I never tried FM when the phone was young
so perhaps mine never worked?

> Besides the elliptical, I use other equipment that doesn't have
> anyplace for a tablet or phone, like the rowing machine and the
> weight equipment.

I wonder if one of those on the head eye goggles gadgets would work. Do
they do movies or TV? Probably would look like a bunch of aliens took
over the place...

> In any case, the large screen TVs are more practical to watch when
> working out, as long as you can get the audio. The new Bluetooth LE
> broadcast mode will be very useful, as long as it is synced with the
> video when used in that way (FM transmitters have no perceptible
> delay), and it would work with phones that have no FM receiver.

Talk to gym management...

> I'd say that at least 80% of the people listening to music when
> working out in that facility are using an iPhone and genuine
> Airpods. I usually use my iPhone and my Bluetooth earpods

I would get bored with music. I'm currently walking through one episode
of Mad Men a day. Obviously a YMMV thing, huh...

On 8/16/2022 3:13 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:

> Only users 70+ are using FM anyway.

Of the 38 FM broadcast stations in my area over 75% are geared to young
folks. You can tell by the horrible sounding music... 8-O

On 8/16/2022 7:25 AM, nospam wrote:

> almost nobody uses the fm radio on a phone, and the space needed for
> the analog headphone jack can be repurposed for other features, that
> people actually do use, which makes for a more compelling product.

Of course nobody wants all these things which most Android phones have.

> those who do want to use wired headphones can continue to do so via the
> usb-c or lightning port, depending on the phone.

Why would we want to no longer be able to use the charging & data port for
charging and data when most Android phones have a 3.5mm port for audio?

In article <tdgl4e$443m$1@dont-email.me>, knuttle
<keith_nuttle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
> > almost nobody uses the fm radio on a phone, and the space needed for
> > the analog headphone jack can be repurposed for other features, that
> > people actually do use, which makes for a more compelling product.
>
> Of course nobody wants all these things which most Android phones have.

what matters is how much a feature is actually used, not whether it
exists.

a feature that exists and not used is a waste of space and expense.

users would be better served with that space being repurposed for
something that more people want.

no device can do everything, so product designers choose what they
think is most important.

On 8/16/2022 1:58 PM, nospam wrote:

>> Of course nobody wants all these things which most Android phones have.
>
> what matters is how much a feature is actually used, not whether it
> exists.

The useful hardware exists in most Android phones because it's useful.

> a feature that exists and not used is a waste of space and expense.

To you any useful hardware on a phone is a waste of space and expense.

> users would be better served with that space being repurposed for
> something that more people want.

Like overly expensive battery operated profit making air pods maybe?

> no device can do everything, so product designers choose what they
> think is most important.

Most Android phones have the 3.5mm jack and FM radio and card slot
because they're useful. It's not the other way around like you think.

On 8/16/2022 9:14 AM, AJL wrote:

<snip>

> Of the 38 FM broadcast stations in my area over 75% are geared to young
> folks. You can tell by the horrible sounding music...  8-O

It's not music that the most popular radio stations are broadcasting. I
doubt if many people, young or old, are using a radio to listen to music
anymore.

In my area, the top two stations have a huge market lead. Both are news
stations, the NPR station has the greatest market share, followed by an
all-news station. Third is an all sports station.There was one very
popular news-talk station that was purchased by Cumulus Media who
promptly destroyed it by firing nearly all the hosts to save money.

The foreign language stations, both TV and radio, are also popular here,
Spanish, Cantonese, Mandarin, and Vietnamese. I get about 120 TV
stations with my outdoor antenna but the majority of them are not
English language stations.

On 8/16/2022 10:46 AM, knuttle wrote:
> On 8/16/2022 7:25 AM, nospam wrote:
>
>> almost nobody uses the fm radio on a phone, and the space needed for
>> the analog headphone jack can be repurposed for other features, that
>> people actually do use, which makes for a more compelling product.
>
> Of course nobody wants all these things which most Android phones have.

LOL, the reality is that enough people want those things that they are
still in existence. Actually I rarely use the FM radio anymore since
data has become so cheap, but when I saw that the gym was using LPFM to
broadcast the audio on their big monitors I thought that that was a good
idea. BLE Broadcast modes sounds promising, but it's a ways off from
being deployed.

>> those who do want to use wired headphones can continue to do so via the
>> usb-c or lightning port, depending on the phone.
>
> Why would we want to no longer be able to use the charging & data port
> for charging and data when most Android phones have a 3.5mm port for audio?

Because iPhones don't have a 3.5mm headphone jack.

I think that I'll try one of these:
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804421552114.html>.

I can use it to listen to the LPFM audio being broadcast from the TV. I
can use it to connect to the exercise equipment that has Bluetooth
connectivity for audio for the various music and video services that are
available.

I can stick in a MicroSD card with music or audio books.

I can leave my phone in the locker which is really what I want to do;
they don't allow cell phone use in any of the workout areas so I really
don't need the phone with me for that hour.

This would be a good solution for the tens of millions of iPhone users
(and tens of millions of Android users as well), that are upset about
the lack of an FM radio in their phones.

In article <tdhcb9$6iem$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> This would be a good solution for the tens of millions of iPhone users
> (and tens of millions of Android users as well), that are upset about
> the lack of an FM radio in their phones.

tens of millions (a number you made up) out billions of devices
confirms that it's not a feature in high demand.

On 8/16/2022 4:07 PM, sms wrote:
> On 8/16/2022 9:14 AM, AJL wrote:

>> Of the 38 FM broadcast stations in my area over 75% are geared to
>> young folks. You can tell by the horrible sounding music... 8-O

> It's not music that the most popular radio stations are
> broadcasting.

I'm not sure how to judge 'popular' but the vast majority of broadcast
FM stations in my area are music. Check the link below.

> I doubt if many people, young or old, are using a radio to listen to
> music anymore.

I doubt there would be that many stations broadcasting music here if
there weren't more than a few folks listening.

> In my area, the top two stations have a huge market lead. Both are
> news stations,

There is only one FM broadcast NEWS station (out of 37) in that link. It
is listed as talk but is actually news-talk. (The news-talk stations
here are mostly on AM.)

> the NPR station has the greatest market share,

The 2 NPR FM stations here share their time with (what else?) music.
(Jazz, blues, and classics).

> The foreign language stations, both TV and radio, are also popular
> here, Spanish, Cantonese, Mandarin, and Vietnamese.

Mostly Spanish here. Our Hispanic population is around 40%.

> I get about 120 TV stations with my outdoor antenna

No outdoor antennas allowed in my neighborhood. But I can get 60+
channels on indoor rabbit ears. However I only need them if the cable
(couple hundred channels) goes out...

<https://www.a2zphoenix.com/media/radio/>

On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 21:01:45 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> This would be a good solution for the tens of millions of iPhone users
>> (and tens of millions of Android users as well), that are upset about
>> the lack of an FM radio in their phones.
>
> tens of millions (a number you made up) out billions of devices
> confirms that it's not a feature in high demand.

Why would anyone want something that Steve Jobs thinks you shouldn't get?

Am 17.08.22 um 03:35 schrieb AJL:
> On 8/16/2022 4:07 PM, sms wrote:
>> On 8/16/2022 9:14 AM, AJL wrote:
>
>>> Of the 38 FM broadcast stations in my area over 75% are geared to
>>> young folks. You can tell by the horrible sounding music... 8-O
>
>> It's not music that the most popular radio stations are
>> broadcasting.
>
> I'm not sure how to judge 'popular' but the vast majority of broadcast
> FM stations in my area are music. Check the link below.

sms always lives in a parallel-universe.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On 8/16/22 10:52 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> sms always lives in a parallel-universe.

In that parallel universe, let's hope there is a parallel you who can tell
us something that isn't always stupid and always wrong and always of
absolutely no use to anyone and not just you bloviating yourself again.
--
Jerry Friedman