I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.

The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.

Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.

One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.

The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.

Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.

One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.

Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.

I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
>
> The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
>
> Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
>
> One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
>
> The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
>
> Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
>
> One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
>
> Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
>
> I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 10:26:17 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
> >
> > The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
> >
> > Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
> >
> > One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
> >
> > The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
> >
> > Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
> >
> > One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder.. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
> >
> > Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
> >
> > I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
> I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.
Here I am meaning to price out the necessary Campy 12 speed parts (Chorus levers and Centaur derailleurs and a 12 speed cassette) and Amazon is off the air. This seems to happen rather regularly. I wonder why that is. Especially during working hours.

On 7/16/2021 12:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 10:26:17 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
>>>
>>> The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
>>>
>>> Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
>>>
>>> One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
>>>
>>> The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
>>>
>>> Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
>>>
>>> One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
>>>
>>> Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
>>>
>>> I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
>> I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.
> Here I am meaning to price out the necessary Campy 12 speed parts (Chorus levers and Centaur derailleurs and a 12 speed cassette) and Amazon is off the air. This seems to happen rather regularly. I wonder why that is. Especially during working hours.
>

Nope.
CHR Ergo-12 with CHR or REC or SREC changers, not 11 speed
CEN changers.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 11:27:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/16/2021 12:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 10:26:17 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
> >>>
> >>> The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
> >>>
> >>> Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
> >>>
> >>> One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
> >>>
> >>> The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
> >>>
> >>> Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
> >>>
> >>> One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
> >>>
> >>> Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
> >>>
> >>> I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
> >> I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.
> > Here I am meaning to price out the necessary Campy 12 speed parts (Chorus levers and Centaur derailleurs and a 12 speed cassette) and Amazon is off the air. This seems to happen rather regularly. I wonder why that is. Especially during working hours.
> >
> Nope.
> CHR Ergo-12 with CHR or REC or SREC changers, not 11 speed
> CEN changers.

With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.

On 7/16/2021 1:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 11:27:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 7/16/2021 12:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 10:26:17 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
>>>>>
>>>>> The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
>>>>>
>>>>> The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
>>>> I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.
>>> Here I am meaning to price out the necessary Campy 12 speed parts (Chorus levers and Centaur derailleurs and a 12 speed cassette) and Amazon is off the air. This seems to happen rather regularly. I wonder why that is. Especially during working hours.
>>>
>> Nope.
>> CHR Ergo-12 with CHR or REC or SREC changers, not 11 speed
>> CEN changers.
>
> With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.
>

www.campagnolo.com

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 7/16/2021 1:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
>>
>> The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
>>
>> Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
>>
>> One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
>>
>> The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
>>
>> Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
>>
>> One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
>>
>> Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
>>
>> I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
> I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.
>

I don't think more churning is going to solve your problems.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:17:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 7/16/2021 1:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
> >>
> >> The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
> >>
> >> Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
> >>
> >> One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
> >>
> >> The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
> >>
> >> Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
> >>
> >> One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
> >>
> >> Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
> >>
> >> I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
> > I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.
> >
> I don't think more churning is going to solve your problems.

Tell me Frank, how many upper end bicycle do you own? Don't be afraid of telling us for fear that you'll be laughed at since you seem to think that you're a bicycle mechanic because you can fix your 6 speed freewheel touring bike.

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:04:12 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/16/2021 1:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 11:27:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 7/16/2021 12:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 10:26:17 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>> I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
> >>>> I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.
> >>> Here I am meaning to price out the necessary Campy 12 speed parts (Chorus levers and Centaur derailleurs and a 12 speed cassette) and Amazon is off the air. This seems to happen rather regularly. I wonder why that is. Especially during working hours.
> >>>
> >> Nope.
> >> CHR Ergo-12 with CHR or REC or SREC changers, not 11 speed
> >> CEN changers.
> >
> > With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.
> >
> www.campagnolo.com

Since you cannot buy their products off of that site and if you use their dealer networks you are hideously overcharged I don't use their website. Case in point: Asking a local Campy dealer how much Chorus levers would cost I got a quote of $637. The Amazon UK site is presently running and the cost of Super Record levers there is about that price. On the American Amazon I believe that the Chorus was $250 or so. With free shipping mind you.

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 14:54:01 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:17:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 7/16/2021 1:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >> I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
>> >>
>> >> The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
>> >>
>> >> Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
>> >>
>> >> One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
>> >>
>> >> The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
>> >>
>> >> Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
>> >>
>> >> One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
>> >>
>> >> Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
>> >>
>> >> I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
>> > I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.
>> >
>> I don't think more churning is going to solve your problems.
>
>Tell me Frank, how many upper end bicycle do you own? Don't be afraid of telling us for fear that you'll be laughed at since you seem to think that you're a bicycle mechanic because you can fix your 6 speed freewheel touring bike.

"Upper end"??

And here you've been regaling us with tales about how you buy second
hand stuff cheap on ebay or other second hand sources?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 7/16/2021 5:54 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:17:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 7/16/2021 1:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:40:22 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.
>>>>
>>>> The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.
>>>>
>>>> Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.
>>>>
>>>> One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.
>>>>
>>>> The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.
>>>>
>>>> Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.
>>>>
>>>> One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.
>>>>
>>>> Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.
>>>>
>>>> I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.
>>> I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.
>>>
>> I don't think more churning is going to solve your problems.
>
> Tell me Frank, how many upper end bicycle do you own?

I don't churn. I don't have your problems.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/16/2021 6:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:04:12 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 7/16/2021 1:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>>> CHR Ergo-12 with CHR or REC or SREC changers, not 11 speed
>>>> CEN changers.
>>>
>>> With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.
>>>
>> www.campagnolo.com
>
> Since you cannot buy their products off of that site and if you use their dealer networks you are hideously overcharged I don't use their website.

<sigh> "I can't look anything up."

The website Andrew cited offers free information, direct from the
manufacturer.

You seem compulsively dedicated to maintaining your own ignorance.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.

Amazon not working?
<https://status.aws.amazon.com>
No sign of massive user complaints:
<https://downdetector.com/status/amazon/>

Maybe just search Amazon for Campagnolo stuff?
<https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Campagnolo&s=price-desc-rank>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 6:22:59 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 7/16/2021 6:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:04:12 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 7/16/2021 1:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> CHR Ergo-12 with CHR or REC or SREC changers, not 11 speed
> >>>> CEN changers.
> >>>
> >>> With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.
> >>>
> >> www.campagnolo.com
> >
> > Since you cannot buy their products off of that site and if you use their dealer networks you are hideously overcharged I don't use their website.
> <sigh> "I can't look anything up."
>
> The website Andrew cited offers free information, direct from the
> manufacturer.
>
> You seem compulsively dedicated to maintaining your own ignorance.

And you seem dedicated to shooting your mouth off about absolutely anything and then when you are proven wrong you simply misrepresent what was said. Or perhaps you simply do not understand the English language.

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 10:46:35 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.
> Amazon not working?
> <https://status.aws.amazon.com>
> No sign of massive user complaints:
> <https://downdetector.com/status/amazon/>
>
> Maybe just search Amazon for Campagnolo stuff?
> <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Campagnolo&s=price-desc-rank>

So let me get you straight. After Amazon is off of the air for over 16 hours, you're "proving me wrong" because they are back on the air? There is really something wrong with you and it isn't getting any better.

On 2021-07-16, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:17:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> I don't think more churning is going to solve your problems.
>
> Tell me Frank, how many upper end bicycle do you own? Don't be afraid of telling us for
fear that you'll be laughed at since you seem to think that you're a bicycle mechanic because
you can fix your 6 speed freewheel touring bike.

Hi Tom.
One thing I've noticed (and liked) about bicyclists is how they tend to be more individualistic than
your average bear. It *does* lead to lots of strong opinions,
of course.

But: I *love* my 6-speed freewheel touring bike with barcon
shifters, et. al.

I also love my old Morris Minor and keep it postitive earth
even though I get told all the time to make it negative--kind
of like the people who think I should convert from 27" to 700C
(that fad).

pH in Aptos

On 7/17/2021 2:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 6:22:59 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 7/16/2021 6:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:04:12 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 7/16/2021 1:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> CHR Ergo-12 with CHR or REC or SREC changers, not 11 speed
>>>>>> CEN changers.
>>>>>
>>>>> With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.
>>>>>
>>>> www.campagnolo.com
>>>
>>> Since you cannot buy their products off of that site and if you use their dealer networks you are hideously overcharged I don't use their website.
>> <sigh> "I can't look anything up."
>>
>> The website Andrew cited offers free information, direct from the
>> manufacturer.
>>
>> You seem compulsively dedicated to maintaining your own ignorance.
>
> And you seem dedicated to shooting your mouth off about absolutely anything and then when you are proven wrong you simply misrepresent what was said. Or perhaps you simply do not understand the English language.

I didn't misrepresent what was said. I quoted it. It's there in the
thread. Anybody can see it.

Tom, if you don't like what you said, you're free to say so. "Oops" or
"My mistake" or similar words will do.

It's so much classier than spewing more insults and deflections.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 10:46:35 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.

>> Amazon not working?
>> <https://status.aws.amazon.com>
>> No sign of massive user complaints:
>> <https://downdetector.com/status/amazon/>
>>
>> Maybe just search Amazon for Campagnolo stuff?
>> <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Campagnolo&s=price-desc-rank>

>So let me get you straight. After Amazon is off of the air for over 16 hours, you're "proving me wrong" because they are back on the air?

The correct term is "back online" not "back on the air".

What I was demonstrating was:
1. Amazon was fully functional as of Saturday 10:46AM.
2. Amazon had no complaints of being offline for the previous 24 hrs.
3. Amazon has not had any reported outages for the month of July
2021:
<https://downdetector.com/archive/>
I use Downdetector quite often for determining is there is a problem.
I also use various "internet weather" sites to check on the ISP's. For
example:
<http://www.internettrafficreport.com/namerica.htm>
4. If Amazon were down for 16 hrs, I'm sure the media would have
reported the incident. The loss in revenue to Amazon would have been
substantial and quite newsworthy.

None of the aforementioned show any evidence of Amazon having been
recently offline. Therefore, I would conclude that either you
experienced a local outage (unlikely), experienced an Amazon specific
routing failure at your ISP (also unlikely), or you screwed up somehow
using your computah (highly probable).

I hate to mention the obvious, but troubleshooting is not your forte.

>There is really something wrong with you and it isn't getting any better.

True. I'm wasting my time keeping you entertained and should be doing
something useful.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 1:50:25 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
> On 2021-07-16, Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:17:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> I don't think more churning is going to solve your problems.
> >
> > Tell me Frank, how many upper end bicycle do you own? Don't be afraid of telling us for
> fear that you'll be laughed at since you seem to think that you're a bicycle mechanic because
> you can fix your 6 speed freewheel touring bike.
> Hi Tom.
> One thing I've noticed (and liked) about bicyclists is how they tend to be more individualistic than
> your average bear. It *does* lead to lots of strong opinions,
> of course.
>
> But: I *love* my 6-speed freewheel touring bike with barcon
> shifters, et. al.
>
> I also love my old Morris Minor and keep it postitive earth
> even though I get told all the time to make it negative--kind
> of like the people who think I should convert from 27" to 700C
> (that fad).

Well I agree with you. I have a touring bike sitting in the back yard under cover with an 8 speed XT setup but bar-end shifters. I don't use it anymore but it is available. The last time I went from here down to Aptos and back the next day, everyone was so burned out that they couldn't ride for a week. We stayed at the motel at the overpass. Everyone had to race up to the grocery store up on (Summit?) and then they were all dead after that. I had some sort of problem, and pulled over to the side of the road and all 15 of them rode away. Without any sort term memory I had to ride over to El Camino and go north to Palo Alto. They had stopped at a cafe and had food and drink while I was taking the long way. We finally met up at the Town and Country mall and continued across the Dumbarton Bridge where most of them had rides waiting for them. Three others and I rode back to San Leandro and two of those were so burned out that they didn't know where they were. But since I was riding one of my road bikes I was tired but OK. Though I would have been better if I had been able to stop at that cafe.

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 2:42:44 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 7/17/2021 2:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 6:22:59 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 7/16/2021 6:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:04:12 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 7/16/2021 1:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> CHR Ergo-12 with CHR or REC or SREC changers, not 11 speed
> >>>>>> CEN changers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.
> >>>>>
> >>>> www.campagnolo.com
> >>>
> >>> Since you cannot buy their products off of that site and if you use their dealer networks you are hideously overcharged I don't use their website.
> >> <sigh> "I can't look anything up."
> >>
> >> The website Andrew cited offers free information, direct from the
> >> manufacturer.
> >>
> >> You seem compulsively dedicated to maintaining your own ignorance.
> >
> > And you seem dedicated to shooting your mouth off about absolutely anything and then when you are proven wrong you simply misrepresent what was said. Or perhaps you simply do not understand the English language.
> I didn't misrepresent what was said. I quoted it. It's there in the
> thread. Anybody can see it.
>
> Tom, if you don't like what you said, you're free to say so. "Oops" or
> "My mistake" or similar words will do.
>
> It's so much classier than spewing more insults and deflections.

Yes, I understand Frank. You do not read the English language well and don't know what quotation marks mean. That is besides the fact that you prefer to act stupid rather than to understand what is being said.

On 7/17/2021 2:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> 1. Amazon was fully functional as of Saturday 10:46AM.
> 2. Amazon had no complaints of being offline for the previous 24 hrs.
> 3. Amazon has not had any reported outages for the month of July
> 2021:

Obviously San Leandro has a different Amazon than Boulder Creek.

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 2:54:47 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 10:46:35 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.
>
> >> Amazon not working?
> >> <https://status.aws.amazon.com>
> >> No sign of massive user complaints:
> >> <https://downdetector.com/status/amazon/>
> >>
> >> Maybe just search Amazon for Campagnolo stuff?
> >> <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Campagnolo&s=price-desc-rank>
>
> >So let me get you straight. After Amazon is off of the air for over 16 hours, you're "proving me wrong" because they are back on the air?
> The correct term is "back online" not "back on the air".
>
> What I was demonstrating was:
> 1. Amazon was fully functional as of Saturday 10:46AM.
> 2. Amazon had no complaints of being offline for the previous 24 hrs.
> 3. Amazon has not had any reported outages for the month of July
> 2021:
> <https://downdetector.com/archive/>
> I use Downdetector quite often for determining is there is a problem.
> I also use various "internet weather" sites to check on the ISP's. For
> example:
> <http://www.internettrafficreport.com/namerica.htm>
> 4. If Amazon were down for 16 hrs, I'm sure the media would have
> reported the incident. The loss in revenue to Amazon would have been
> substantial and quite newsworthy.
>
> None of the aforementioned show any evidence of Amazon having been
> recently offline. Therefore, I would conclude that either you
> experienced a local outage (unlikely), experienced an Amazon specific
> routing failure at your ISP (also unlikely), or you screwed up somehow
> using your computah (highly probable).
>
> I hate to mention the obvious, but troubleshooting is not your forte.
> >There is really something wrong with you and it isn't getting any better..
> True. I'm wasting my time keeping you entertained and should be doing
> something useful.

Jeff, do you know how to find out when I posted that message? Please do not tell me that Amazon wasn't down when it clearly was. I tested it every 15 minutes for at least 12 hours and it had been down before I started and until after I went to bed. Your pretense that this was NEWS NEWS NEWS seems to miss the point that this happens regularly. For all I know it is scheduled..

On Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 7:57:49 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> On 7/17/2021 2:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > 1. Amazon was fully functional as of Saturday 10:46AM.
> > 2. Amazon had no complaints of being offline for the previous 24 hrs.
> > 3. Amazon has not had any reported outages for the month of July
> > 2021:
> Obviously San Leandro has a different Amazon than Boulder Creek.
How many purchases did you make from Amazon on Friday?

On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 08:00:04 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jeff, do you know how to find out when I posted that message?

Yes I know everything. You have only to ask. From the message
header:
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
Your original announcement is at:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/6vYL7JsVilE/m/9b_ErJ_vAQAJ>

>Please do not tell me that Amazon wasn't down when it clearly was.

Ok, I won't tell you. I'll simply point out that the Amazon status
report, status logs, and crowd sourced DownDetector history shows
clearly that Amazon was not down.

>I tested it every 15 minutes for at least 12 hours and it had been down before I started and until after I went to bed. Your pretense that this was NEWS NEWS NEWS seems to miss the point that this happens regularly. For all I know it is scheduled.

I'm not impressed with your troubleshooting skills. You did the same
thing over and over and over for 12 hrs and expected different
results. That doesn't work. I rarely rely on a single tool to do
troubleshooting. That also applies to bicycles, where I measure
things twice using two different measuring tools. Same with
troubleshooting web services and site. There are plenty of tools
available to help isolate problems. I have seen individual sites
disappear due to DDoS attacks, router misconfiguration, trashed BGP
tables, and load balancing anomalies. You can also have problems on
your own computer that will block a single site. For example, your
browser could have been attact by malware which uses a DNS redirector
to send all DNS lookups to the malware site instead of the real DNS
site. In extreme cases, malware might have added a few lines to your
hosts file sending any Amazon web page lookup into a black hole.

One thing I know for sure. There was nobody else complaining about
Amazon being down. Even a few minutes downtime on a major site would
get the attention of the internet news services. For example, on June
25, 2021 Amazon had a 1 hr outage that immediately appeared on
DownDetector with 6,200 complaints:
<https://www.reuters.com/technology/amazon-services-down-multiple-users-downdetector-2021-06-24/>
When you see a major internet site go down, you won't be alone.

Anyway, I suggest you do a better job of troubleshooting and
verification BEFORE you accuse someone of ruining your internet
shopping experience.

"How to check if a website is down"?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+check+if+a+website+is+down>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 7/18/2021 12:01 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> Ok, I won't tell you. I'll simply point out that the Amazon status
> report, status logs, and crowd sourced DownDetector history shows
> clearly that Amazon was not down.

Some people don't understand that problems with their ISP≠problems with
Amazon (or problems with their computer≠problems with Amazon).

As you stated, Amazon was not down.

Jeff, you may have to travel to San Leandro to troubleshoot Tom's
computer or network.