Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 8/10/2021 2:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>
>> Since I'm wasting time, here is another wrong place, wrong time
>> products story. I represented this company that made camper trailers.
>> One of their campers was driving down the road (HWY 5 again), a wheel
>> came off and went careening toward the shoulder. Moments earlier, a man
>> had stopped his car to help a woman with a flat tire. He got out of his
>> car, started walking back towards the woman -- and then stopped to tie
>> his shoe. He bends over, and at that exact moment, the errant wheel
>> hits him in the head. He dies a few days later. Damn. An excellent
>> reason for wearing slip-on shoes. Safety inflation!
>
> When we see warnings "Never wear shoes that use shoelaces," _that_ will
> be safety inflation.
>
> And FWIW, I've read that warning regarding motorcycles. The author
> advocated boots, because he once had a shoelace snag in some part of the
> motorcycle. He couldn't get his foot down at a stop light and tipped the
> bike.
>

To bring things back on topic, I greatly prefer cycling shoes with Velcro
or Boa fasteners because of the absence of shoelaces, which need to be
managed to keep them out of your chainrings.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2021 08:47:54 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
<i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>On Monday, August 9, 2021 at 10:30:24 a.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 8/9/2021 12:00 AM, John B. wrote:
>> > On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 20:29:34 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sunday, August 8, 2021 at 3:15:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> It must be hard being the only unafraid and authentic cyclist. Meanwhile, in the real world: (1) adults in the US did not commute in the '50s and '60s -- or even '70s. Or at least I never saw them, and I hardly ever saw an adult ride recreationally. Did you?
>> >>
>> >> Adult bicycling in America essentially began in the 1970s "bike boom." Before that approximately zero adults rode.
>> >>
>> >> For the last 30 years or so, American bike commuting mode share has been flat, consistently less than 1%.
>> >>
>> >>> (2) I have never once heard someone say that STI is necessary because DT shifting is dangerous.
>> >>
>> >> That statement was in an article much discussed here, the one using young racers to compare 1990s (IIRC) racing bikes
>> >> with modern racing bikes. A couple of the young guys worried about taking their hands off the hoods to shift gears.
>> >> They said it didn't feel safe.
>> >>
>> >>> STI is just a lot more convenient. Imagine selling DT shifting to a current racer ...
>> >>
>> >> Sure, as I've said perhaps 30 times, a racer needs brifters. But normal bicyclists don't need to change gears while standing
>> >> to catch up with an explosive breakaway. For them, the difference is the most minor convenience - not moving their hand
>> >> to shift if they happen to be riding the hoods. They still need to move their hands if they happen to be riding the tops, so I
>> >> guess it's time for you to be slagging on STI and promoting Di2 and multiple shift buttons, right? STI is _so_ mechanical!
>> >>
>> >>> All of the things you claim as safety inflation equipment are just better. (
>> >>
>> >> It's "better" to have a large, fragile styrofoam hat to keep track of and protect from harm every time you want to ride a bike?
>> >> It's "better" to have strobe lights as bright as the sun glaring in the eyes of oncoming road users?
>> >> It's "better" to have to change your shirt just to ride a bike, to conform with the "always be super visible" hand wringing?
>> >>
>> >> 3) Some spin class people don't like riding on the road, and some do.
>> >>
>> >> I never made any 100% claims. I said I believe most non-winter spin class denizens fear the road. I still think so, even though
>> >> there are exceptions.
>> >>
>> >>> You hang in there as the standard bearer for the 1980s. I've moved on. I also moved on from the '60s and '70s, except for my track bike. But for those who want the Velo Orange or Rivendell experience, nobody is holding them back.
>> >>
>> >> You're having great trouble keeping track of my main point. As I said, I'm not much bothered by people spending their excess
>> >> money on useless "safety" gear, whether it's a daytime blinky taillight or a bathmat that warns if the water's too hot. I do think
>> >> a lot of this is weird societal paranoia, making the safest society the earth has ever seen safer and safer, without limit. Spend
>> >> away, Jay!
>> >>
>> >> My bigger objection is the dangerizing of bicycling that goes with, and beyond, that general paranoia. I've read enough and
>> >> heard enough "He should have worn a helmet" or "He shouldn't ride wearing dark clothes." Heck, in another forum there's a
>> >> guy who told the victim of a 6" clearance punishment pass "Well, that could have been avoided if you had watched your
>> >> mirror and acknowledged the presence of the oncoming motorist." (Right, do that for every oncoming car!)
>> >>
>> >> Imposing ever more "safety" requirements on bicycling _must_ dissuade people from riding, and is very likely to harm
>> >> those who do choose to ride, because they can never keep up with the extremes of the "safety" advice.
>> >>
>> >> (Do you use the loud electric horn Scharf has touted?)
>> >>
>> >> - Frank Krygowski
>> >>
>> >
>> > But Frank, the world is just so dangerious these days.
>> >
>> > As proof of this I believe that I've mentioned that I recently bought
>> > a ladder from Home Pro and there is a label on it that says,
>> > "Improper use of this device may result in injury or death."
>> >
>> > Now I remember my Granddad had a ladder and my father had a ladder and
>> > neither of them were labeled as being unsafe so, logically, as ladders
>> > now require a label testifying to their danger, it must indicate that
>> > ladders have become far more dangerious then they were "back in the
>> > day".
>> >
>> > Perhaps bicycles, being inanimate objects like ladders, have also
>> > grown more dangerious.
>> There's this:
>> https://www.forbes.com/2011/02/23/dumbest-warning-labels-entrepreneurs-sales-marketing-warning-labels_slide.html?sh=a417e1b54fca
>>
>> Because safety.
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
>NO! It's because of frivolous litigation. Someone has an accident and they sue the manufacturer and/or everyone else who had a hand in making and/or selling the item. IMHO, that's where the so called safety inflation comes from.
>
>Cheers

"frivolous litigation"?? You mean that you buy a cup of hot coffee and
then spill it on yourself and then sue the guy that made the coffee
and collect some $500,000 it is "frivolous"? I'd say that it was
"serious".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 07:48:18 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>"frivolous litigation"?? You mean that you buy a cup of hot coffee and
>then spill it on yourself and then sue the guy that made the coffee
>and collect some $500,000 it is "frivolous"? I'd say that it was
>"serious".

Opinions vary and that's not what happened:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants>
"...coffee continues to be served as hot or hotter at McDonald's and
chains like Starbucks. They further stated that the vast majority of
judges who consider similar cases dismiss them before they get to a
jury."

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 10 Aug 2021 18:12:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 07:48:18 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>"frivolous litigation"?? You mean that you buy a cup of hot coffee and
>>then spill it on yourself and then sue the guy that made the coffee
>>and collect some $500,000 it is "frivolous"? I'd say that it was
>>"serious".
>
>Opinions vary and that's not what happened:
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants>
>"...coffee continues to be served as hot or hotter at McDonald's and
>chains like Starbucks. They further stated that the vast majority of
>judges who consider similar cases dismiss them before they get to a
>jury."

Yes, I read the case when it was first reported and one thing that was
mentioned then was the attorney for the claimant frequently mentioned
of what McDonald's world wide income from coffee was. The implication,
I thought was "Hey! Look! They got all that money so give my client
some".

And yes, the first account I read of the case had the observation that
someone in England had tried the same thing and the judge had tossed
the case with the comment that "That is ridicules".

But the fact remains that Mrs. Liebeck, or perhaps more accurately
"Mrs. Liebeck and her attorney' collected in the vicinity of $500,000.

And, if memory serves Mrs. Liebeck admitted, or stated, that she had
spilled the coffee on herself.

And yes I am aware of the argument about how hot coffee should be and
just the other day I read some instructions for making the perfect cup
of coffee and it was stated that the temperature should be 200 degrees
(F).
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 08:46:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>But the fact remains that Mrs. Liebeck, or perhaps more accurately
>"Mrs. Liebeck and her attorney' collected in the vicinity of $500,000.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants#Verdict>
The judge reduced punitive damages to $480,000,
three times the compensatory amount, for a total
of $640,000. The decision was appealed by both
McDonald's and Liebeck in December 1994, but the
parties settled out of court for an undisclosed
amount.

Translation: The attorneys received most of the award money.

>And, if memory serves Mrs. Liebeck admitted, or stated, that she had
>spilled the coffee on herself.

True. While the coffee cup contained a warning label some operating
instructions, these were deemed to be in an insufficiently large font.
McDonalds was assumed to be responsible for instructing their
customers on the operation of a hot coffee cup (i.e. do not place
between legs), and providing warning text in a font that even the
blind can read. For this crime, McDonalds was sentence to supporting
the plaintiff attorneys mortgage and car payments. What little
remained would go to Mrs Liebeck.

>And yes I am aware of the argument about how hot coffee should be and
>just the other day I read some instructions for making the perfect cup
>of coffee and it was stated that the temperature should be 200 degrees
>(F).

Warning label: Coffee prepared at a temperature below 200F may taste
awful.

Think about tort reform:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort_reform>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 10 Aug 2021 19:31:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 08:46:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>But the fact remains that Mrs. Liebeck, or perhaps more accurately
>>"Mrs. Liebeck and her attorney' collected in the vicinity of $500,000.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants#Verdict>
> The judge reduced punitive damages to $480,000,
> three times the compensatory amount, for a total
> of $640,000. The decision was appealed by both
> McDonald's and Liebeck in December 1994, but the
> parties settled out of court for an undisclosed
> amount.
>
>Translation: The attorneys received most of the award money.
>
>>And, if memory serves Mrs. Liebeck admitted, or stated, that she had
>>spilled the coffee on herself.
>
>True. While the coffee cup contained a warning label some operating
>instructions, these were deemed to be in an insufficiently large font.
>McDonalds was assumed to be responsible for instructing their
>customers on the operation of a hot coffee cup (i.e. do not place
>between legs), and providing warning text in a font that even the
>blind can read. For this crime, McDonalds was sentence to supporting
>the plaintiff attorneys mortgage and car payments. What little
>remained would go to Mrs Liebeck.
>
>>And yes I am aware of the argument about how hot coffee should be and
>>just the other day I read some instructions for making the perfect cup
>>of coffee and it was stated that the temperature should be 200 degrees
>>(F).
>
>Warning label: Coffee prepared at a temperature below 200F may taste
>awful.
>
>Think about tort reform:
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort_reform>

(:-) I don't live there any more and here if you tried to being a
case where you claimed that a cup of coffee was "too hot" I doubt that
the courts would hear the case. At least, to date the news has never
reported a case, here, where "the devil made me do it" has been an
acceptable excuse :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 08:46:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

> But the fact remains that Mrs. Liebeck, or perhaps more accurately
> "Mrs. Liebeck and her attorney' collected in the vicinity of $500,000.

At the time I commented "she poured coffee on herself and sued because
it wasn't bath water." Someone replied "You don't UNDERSTAND! Click
this LINK and get the WHOLE STORY!"

So I clicked the link, and the whole story was "she poured coffee on
herself, was horribly injured, and sued because it wasn't bath water."

One of my classmates in college was horribly injured when a boy
snitched a cup of coffee off the tray she was carrying and suddenly
the center of gravity of the tray was no longer over her hand.

Anybody who doesn't know what the word "scald" means isn't old enough
to drink coffee.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On 8/11/2021 12:21 AM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 08:46:21 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> But the fact remains that Mrs. Liebeck, or perhaps more accurately
>> "Mrs. Liebeck and her attorney' collected in the vicinity of $500,000.
>
> At the time I commented "she poured coffee on herself and sued because
> it wasn't bath water." Someone replied "You don't UNDERSTAND! Click
> this LINK and get the WHOLE STORY!"
>
> So I clicked the link, and the whole story was "she poured coffee on
> herself, was horribly injured, and sued because it wasn't bath water."
>
> One of my classmates in college was horribly injured when a boy
> snitched a cup of coffee off the tray she was carrying and suddenly
> the center of gravity of the tray was no longer over her hand.
>
> Anybody who doesn't know what the word "scald" means isn't old enough
> to drink coffee.

Tea instructions usually specify using boiling water.

Perhaps every teacup needs a warning label, "Caution, tea is HOT!"

For safety! (Or safe tea.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 8:50:16 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 11:41:42 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 9:19:55 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 4:47:56 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > >
> > > > NO! It's because of frivolous litigation. Someone has an accident and they sue the manufacturer and/or everyone else who had a hand in making and/or selling the item. IMHO, that's where the so called safety inflation comes from.
> > > >
> > > Definitely a very likely influence. I remember a case where Lotus, a small British manufacturer of sports cars sold a car to person A, who eventually sold it on to person B, who modified it without any input by Lotus or knowledge by Lotus of his activities, and then sold it on to person C, who crashed it and then sued Lotus, who were forced to pay up. They stopped distributing their cars to the States. Jay may remember the case.
> > I don't know that case, but its not unique. A manufacturer can be liable for used products.
> >
> > I had a case for Uniroyal Goodrich (Michelin) where a guy bought a set of used tires with unknown pedigree from a garage sale, put them on his car, and while driving south on HWY 5, a tire exploded; he lost control of the car, crossed the median, the car popped up in the air and landed on another car -- killing the occupants. The estates won in the trial court based on expert testimony that the tires were mis-manufactured years earlier resulting in catastrophic belt separation. I was supposed to salvage the case in the Ninth Circuit based on the erroneous admission of expert testimony (long boring story), but in one of my weirdest moments in front of that court, the panel stopped me mid-argument and asked if the parties had attempted to settle the case. I and the woman arguing for plaintiffs looked at each other and shrugged our shoulders, and then we got sent down the hall to schedule a mediation with Judge Levy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Leavy Great guy. Anyway, this is not the sort of thing that happens during an appellate argument. https://pioneercourthouse.org/images/slider/courtroom-slider.jpg Classic courtroom with a fire place in back. https://pioneercourthouse.org/images/timeline/ThomasVisit2013.jpg (with Ed Levy, Clarence Thomas and Diarmuid O'Scannlain).
> >
> > Since I'm wasting time, here is another wrong place, wrong time products story. I represented this company that made camper trailers. One of their campers was driving down the road (HWY 5 again), a wheel came off and went careening toward the shoulder. Moments earlier, a man had stopped his car to help a woman with a flat tire. He got out of his car, started walking back towards the woman -- and then stopped to tie his shoe. He bends over, and at that exact moment, the errant wheel hits him in the head. He dies a few days later. Damn. An excellent reason for wearing slip-on shoes. Safety inflation!
> Still, the fact that used things of unknown previous actions should not be allowed in a suit against the manufacturer. Too many people see dollar signs in their eyes for the slightest reason.
..
I blame the jury system together with weak judges who must run fr reelection or are politically appointed. In Britain and Ireland jury award inflation has been dealt with by capping the awards in such cases (and in libel cases) and doing away with the jury. Not perfect but it appears to work. All the same, in libel at least, I admire the French system where there is a right to personal privacy and breach of it is a criminal offence; it works better for the suppression of libel at least than any other system I know of. -- AJ

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 09:20:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Tea instructions usually specify using boiling water.
>Perhaps every teacup needs a warning label, "Caution, tea is HOT!"
>For safety! (Or safe tea.)

I have this hanging in my kitchen. I drink mostly herbal. I forgot
from where I stole it:

Type Temp Steep time (minutes)
Delicate Tea 160F 1-2
Green Tea 175F 2-3
White Tea 185F 2-3
Oolong Tea 190F 3-4
French Press 200F 4-5
Black & Herbal 212F 3-5
(full boil)

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 7:39:10 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have this hanging in my kitchen. I drink mostly herbal. I forgot
> from where I stole it:
>
> Type Temp Steep time (minutes)
> Delicate Tea 160F 1-2
> Green Tea 175F 2-3
> White Tea 185F 2-3
> Oolong Tea 190F 3-4
> French Press 200F 4-5
> Black & Herbal 212F 3-5
> (full boil)
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

D'you know Red Bush Tea? Apparently it doesn't contain caffein or tannin. -- AJ

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 11:39:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 09:20:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>Tea instructions usually specify using boiling water.
>>Perhaps every teacup needs a warning label, "Caution, tea is HOT!"
>>For safety! (Or safe tea.)
>
>I have this hanging in my kitchen. I drink mostly herbal. I forgot
>from where I stole it:
>
> Type Temp Steep time (minutes)
>Delicate Tea 160F 1-2
>Green Tea 175F 2-3
>White Tea 185F 2-3
>Oolong Tea 190F 3-4
>French Press 200F 4-5
>Black & Herbal 212F 3-5
> (full boil)

Yup, and "Time and Temperature Relationship to Severe Burns" it is 155
degrees(F) for 1 second.
http://ameriburn.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/scaldinjuryeducatorsguide.pdf
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 14:38:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 7:39:10 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have this hanging in my kitchen. I drink mostly herbal. I forgot
>> from where I stole it:
>>
>> Type Temp Steep time (minutes)
>> Delicate Tea 160F 1-2
>> Green Tea 175F 2-3
>> White Tea 185F 2-3
>> Oolong Tea 190F 3-4
>> French Press 200F 4-5
>> Black & Herbal 212F 3-5
>> (full boil)

>D'you know Red Bush Tea? Apparently it doesn't contain caffein or tannin. -- AJ

No, I've never tried it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooibos>
Yep, no caffeine because it's not derived from:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camellia_sinensis>
like black, white, yellow, green, etc teas, all of which contain some
amount of caffeine.

I'm not a connoisseur of imported or exotic teas. I drink whatever
the local supermarket has on sale. Current favorite is Celestial
Seasonings: Country Peach Passion. Herbal, of course:
<https://celestialseasonings.com/products/country-peach-passion-herbal-tea>
Notice the nutritional information chart. It contains 0% of all the
usually chemicals, making the tea little better than colored water.
Add honey and lemon, and I have tea the way I like it.

We have a good tea importer in town, Good Earth Teas:
<https://www.goodearth.com>
Long ago, I did some computah work for them and was blessed by the
ultimate sample collection of teas. I tried them all and didn't like
any. I think rooibos was in there somewhere. Yep.
<https://www.goodearth.com/products/rooibos-chaitea-bags>
I suspect my computah support contract was not renewed because I
brought my own tea bags to meetings.

Momentarily changing targets to John B., I noticed that Thailand has
the 2nd highest import tariffs on coffee:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_production_in_Thailand>
"Thailand's import tariffs for coffee are the second highest in the
world, making it a pricey endeavor for coffee shops to feature beans
from abroad."
This seems like the Thai coffee production is going to exports and
tourists, forcing Thailand residents to drink the apparently inferior
local coffee. Because none of the locals voluntarily drink the
available local coffee, there probably isn't a sufficient number of
coffee spill and burn cases to support a personal injury litigation
industry.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 19:13:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 14:38:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
><fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 7:39:10 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I have this hanging in my kitchen. I drink mostly herbal. I forgot
>>> from where I stole it:
>>>
>>> Type Temp Steep time (minutes)
>>> Delicate Tea 160F 1-2
>>> Green Tea 175F 2-3
>>> White Tea 185F 2-3
>>> Oolong Tea 190F 3-4
>>> French Press 200F 4-5
>>> Black & Herbal 212F 3-5
>>> (full boil)
>
>>D'you know Red Bush Tea? Apparently it doesn't contain caffein or tannin. -- AJ
>
>No, I've never tried it.
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooibos>
>Yep, no caffeine because it's not derived from:
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camellia_sinensis>
>like black, white, yellow, green, etc teas, all of which contain some
>amount of caffeine.
>
>I'm not a connoisseur of imported or exotic teas. I drink whatever
>the local supermarket has on sale. Current favorite is Celestial
>Seasonings: Country Peach Passion. Herbal, of course:
><https://celestialseasonings.com/products/country-peach-passion-herbal-tea>
>Notice the nutritional information chart. It contains 0% of all the
>usually chemicals, making the tea little better than colored water.
>Add honey and lemon, and I have tea the way I like it.
>
>We have a good tea importer in town, Good Earth Teas:
><https://www.goodearth.com>
>Long ago, I did some computah work for them and was blessed by the
>ultimate sample collection of teas. I tried them all and didn't like
>any. I think rooibos was in there somewhere. Yep.
><https://www.goodearth.com/products/rooibos-chaitea-bags>
>I suspect my computah support contract was not renewed because I
>brought my own tea bags to meetings.
>
>Momentarily changing targets to John B., I noticed that Thailand has
>the 2nd highest import tariffs on coffee:
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_production_in_Thailand>
>"Thailand's import tariffs for coffee are the second highest in the
>world, making it a pricey endeavor for coffee shops to feature beans
>from abroad."
>This seems like the Thai coffee production is going to exports and
>tourists, forcing Thailand residents to drink the apparently inferior
>local coffee. Because none of the locals voluntarily drink the
>available local coffee, there probably isn't a sufficient number of
>coffee spill and burn cases to support a personal injury litigation
>industry.

Re Thailand and import duties :-)

As it happens we went to the wholesale grocery store (Macro) yesterday
and as part of my "shopping duties" I bought some coffee - my wife
doesn't drink coffee - and as my usual coffee wasn't in stock I bought
some "FESTA Gold Freeze Dried Coffee Extract", 100 gram bottle. Cost
TB 150 (about US$4.47 as of this morning's rate). Fine tasting coffee
and made in Thailand.

As a comparison I checked with Amazon who lists a 100 gram bottle of
"New BELLAROM Gold freeze-dried instant coffee 100%" for only $18.99
delivered to Thailand.

https://www.amazon.com/BELLAROM-Gold-freeze-dried-instant-Arabica/dp/B076NW8FL6

As an aside, the premium coffees grown in Northern Thailand are
selling here at a higher price then imported coffees - Nescafe, etc.

As for "Local's" drinking coffee I can only say that the "coffee
aisle" in the store has, probably, 15 meters of shelves, from ground
level to higher then one's head... full of coffee for sale. Nearly all
of them "3 in 1" mix.

But as for personal injury litigation industry, well, it does exist
and I see occasional mention in the news, but rarely and usually only
cases where intent of injury can be proved. Example, a month or so ago
a bloke (he may have been drunk) fell asleep laying on the railroad
tracks and a train came along. No case.

Sort of like the, what is it?, 40 cases that the Republicans have
brought for voter fraud? No case :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 3:14:04 AM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 14:38:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 7:39:10 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I have this hanging in my kitchen. I drink mostly herbal. I forgot
> >> from where I stole it:
> >>
> >> Type Temp Steep time (minutes)
> >> Delicate Tea 160F 1-2
> >> Green Tea 175F 2-3
> >> White Tea 185F 2-3
> >> Oolong Tea 190F 3-4
> >> French Press 200F 4-5
> >> Black & Herbal 212F 3-5
> >> (full boil)
> >D'you know Red Bush Tea? Apparently it doesn't contain caffein or tannin.. -- AJ
> No, I've never tried it.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooibos>
> Yep, no caffeine because it's not derived from:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camellia_sinensis>
> like black, white, yellow, green, etc teas, all of which contain some
> amount of caffeine.
>
> I'm not a connoisseur of imported or exotic teas. I drink whatever
> the local supermarket has on sale. Current favorite is Celestial
> Seasonings: Country Peach Passion. Herbal, of course:
> <https://celestialseasonings.com/products/country-peach-passion-herbal-tea>
> Notice the nutritional information chart. It contains 0% of all the
> usually chemicals, making the tea little better than colored water.
> Add honey and lemon, and I have tea the way I like it.
>
> We have a good tea importer in town, Good Earth Teas:
> <https://www.goodearth.com>
> Long ago, I did some computah work for them and was blessed by the
> ultimate sample collection of teas. I tried them all and didn't like
> any. I think rooibos was in there somewhere. Yep.
> <https://www.goodearth.com/products/rooibos-chaitea-bags>
> I suspect my computah support contract was not renewed because I
> brought my own tea bags to meetings.
>
I doubt Rooibos was in a boutique collection. You'd have a firmer memory of it if it were in there, because it is the only tea that needs to be stewed and is without exception drunk with milk.
..
Rooibos a workman's tea, a soldier's comfort. You know old soldiers by their asking, when you put the Rooibos in the pot, whether you have a tin of condensed milk handy... An acquired taste, of course. I make a pot of Rooibos four or five times a year, but normally I don't have time for making anything but a pot of Lady Grey made with supermarketteabags and boosted with extra lime (half a lime to four-cup pot) plus a squirt of honey. -- AJ

On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 4:34:41 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
> Sort of like the, what is it?, 40 cases that the Republicans have
> brought for voter fraud? No case :-)
>
You're not exactly the brains trust, are you, Slow Johnny?

For a start, an accident isn't even remotely or, as you have it, "sort of" analogous to election fraud, which is strictly volitional, even for Democrats who grew up hearing their fathers discuss how they would steal the election.

>40 cases that the Republicans have
> brought for voter fraud?

Of course it is Republicans who bring cases for election fraud. Democrats are the fraudsters, so why should Democrats bring cases for elections they have won?

> No case :-)

Of course it is "no case". That's because the Republicans complaining about Democrat election fraud have their cases heard before Democrat judges. Gee, even you must see that.

Incidentally, what's the smirk ( :-) ) for? Triumph at the crookedness of your party? Typical.

You're a walking, talking non sequitur, Slow Johnny. Fortunately you're only a gnat-size non sequitur. Think of the harm you could do if you were twice the man.

Andre Jute
Can't the Biden government send us, as part of the multi-trillion giveaway, a taller clown than Slow Johnny? It gets tiresome to bend over to see his lips move.

On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 7:14:04 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 14:38:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 7:39:10 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I have this hanging in my kitchen. I drink mostly herbal. I forgot
> >> from where I stole it:
> >>
> >> Type Temp Steep time (minutes)
> >> Delicate Tea 160F 1-2
> >> Green Tea 175F 2-3
> >> White Tea 185F 2-3
> >> Oolong Tea 190F 3-4
> >> French Press 200F 4-5
> >> Black & Herbal 212F 3-5
> >> (full boil)
> >D'you know Red Bush Tea? Apparently it doesn't contain caffein or tannin. -- AJ
> No, I've never tried it.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooibos>
> Yep, no caffeine because it's not derived from:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camellia_sinensis>
> like black, white, yellow, green, etc teas, all of which contain some
> amount of caffeine.
>
> I'm not a connoisseur of imported or exotic teas. I drink whatever
> the local supermarket has on sale. Current favorite is Celestial
> Seasonings: Country Peach Passion. Herbal, of course:
> <https://celestialseasonings.com/products/country-peach-passion-herbal-tea>
> Notice the nutritional information chart. It contains 0% of all the
> usually chemicals, making the tea little better than colored water.
> Add honey and lemon, and I have tea the way I like it.
>
> We have a good tea importer in town, Good Earth Teas:
> <https://www.goodearth.com>
> Long ago, I did some computah work for them and was blessed by the
> ultimate sample collection of teas. I tried them all and didn't like
> any. I think rooibos was in there somewhere. Yep.
> <https://www.goodearth.com/products/rooibos-chaitea-bags>
> I suspect my computah support contract was not renewed because I
> brought my own tea bags to meetings.
>
> Momentarily changing targets to John B., I noticed that Thailand has
> the 2nd highest import tariffs on coffee:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_production_in_Thailand>
> "Thailand's import tariffs for coffee are the second highest in the
> world, making it a pricey endeavor for coffee shops to feature beans
> from abroad."
> This seems like the Thai coffee production is going to exports and
> tourists, forcing Thailand residents to drink the apparently inferior
> local coffee. Because none of the locals voluntarily drink the
> available local coffee, there probably isn't a sufficient number of
> coffee spill and burn cases to support a personal injury litigation
> industry.
Does this mean that I can make tea from the leaves of my Camellia plant?

On Thursday, August 12, 2021 at 3:28:13 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 7:14:04 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 14:38:41 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
> > <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 7:39:10 PM UTC+1, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> I have this hanging in my kitchen. I drink mostly herbal. I forgot
> > >> from where I stole it:
> > >>
> > >> Type Temp Steep time (minutes)
> > >> Delicate Tea 160F 1-2
> > >> Green Tea 175F 2-3
> > >> White Tea 185F 2-3
> > >> Oolong Tea 190F 3-4
> > >> French Press 200F 4-5
> > >> Black & Herbal 212F 3-5
> > >> (full boil)
> > >D'you know Red Bush Tea? Apparently it doesn't contain caffein or tannin. -- AJ
> > No, I've never tried it.
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooibos>
> > Yep, no caffeine because it's not derived from:
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camellia_sinensis>
> > like black, white, yellow, green, etc teas, all of which contain some
> > amount of caffeine.
> >
> > I'm not a connoisseur of imported or exotic teas. I drink whatever
> > the local supermarket has on sale. Current favorite is Celestial
> > Seasonings: Country Peach Passion. Herbal, of course:
> > <https://celestialseasonings.com/products/country-peach-passion-herbal-tea>
> > Notice the nutritional information chart. It contains 0% of all the
> > usually chemicals, making the tea little better than colored water.
> > Add honey and lemon, and I have tea the way I like it.
> >
> > We have a good tea importer in town, Good Earth Teas:
> > <https://www.goodearth.com>
> > Long ago, I did some computah work for them and was blessed by the
> > ultimate sample collection of teas. I tried them all and didn't like
> > any. I think rooibos was in there somewhere. Yep.
> > <https://www.goodearth.com/products/rooibos-chaitea-bags>
> > I suspect my computah support contract was not renewed because I
> > brought my own tea bags to meetings.
> >
> > Momentarily changing targets to John B., I noticed that Thailand has
> > the 2nd highest import tariffs on coffee:
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_production_in_Thailand>
> > "Thailand's import tariffs for coffee are the second highest in the
> > world, making it a pricey endeavor for coffee shops to feature beans
> > from abroad."
> > This seems like the Thai coffee production is going to exports and
> > tourists, forcing Thailand residents to drink the apparently inferior
> > local coffee. Because none of the locals voluntarily drink the
> > available local coffee, there probably isn't a sufficient number of
> > coffee spill and burn cases to support a personal injury litigation
> > industry.
> Does this mean that I can make tea from the leaves of my Camellia plant?
..
Good question. I'm looking forward to Jeff's answer. -- AJ