On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> >
> > 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
>
> I think Tom is misremembering something here.

Pffff. My wife could do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJETokbfnNI&ab_channel=SpecializedBicycles

-- Jay Beattie.

On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 20:36:32 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
<jbeattie57@msn.com> wrote:

>On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> > On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
>> >
>> > 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
>>
>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
>
>Pffff. My wife could do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJETokbfnNI&ab_channel=SpecializedBicycles
>
>-- Jay Beattie.

Does your wife know that you refer to her as "Grandma"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> >
> > 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
>
> I think Tom is misremembering something here.

Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?

On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
>>>
>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
>>
>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
>
> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?

A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.

_Bicycling Science_, 3rd edition, p. has some data indicating an
extraordinary athlete can do it for less than a minute if he pedals to
exhaustion - not if he keeps riding afterward. I doubt any human can
maintain that for a minute, or can do it repeatedly.

I'd welcome properly cited data showing otherwise. How long do you think
"that kid" can produce that much power, Tom? What's your source, other
than your "memory"?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 21:45:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
>>>>
>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
>>>
>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
>>
>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
>
>A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
>
>_Bicycling Science_, 3rd edition, p. has some data indicating an
>extraordinary athlete can do it for less than a minute if he pedals to
>exhaustion - not if he keeps riding afterward. I doubt any human can
>maintain that for a minute, or can do it repeatedly.
>
>I'd welcome properly cited data showing otherwise. How long do you think
>"that kid" can produce that much power, Tom? What's your source, other
>than your "memory"?

https://tinyurl.com/xwkxu8jb
A quick look seems to indicate that 22 seconds is, approximately, the
limit.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> >>>
> >>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> >> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> >> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> >> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> >> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> >>
> >> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> >
> > Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.

Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds. When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.

Lou

On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
>>>>>
>>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
>>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
>>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
>>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
>>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
>>>>
>>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
>>>
>>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
>> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
>
> Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.

How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
less than a minute to full exhaustion.

If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
was talking about.

> When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.

For how long?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> >>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> >>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> >>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total..
> >>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> >>>
> >>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> >> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> >
> > Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
> less than a minute to full exhaustion.
>
> If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
> do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
> it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
> was talking about.
> > When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> For how long?
>
> --

Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche

The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.

Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.

How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.

Tom was mistaken about the speed of that 'kid' on that 14% grade climb and I pointed that out but what is the point going on and on about his mistake?

Lou

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> > >>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> > >>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> > >>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> > >>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> > >>>
> > >>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> > >> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > >
> > > Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
> > less than a minute to full exhaustion.
> >
> > If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
> > do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
> > it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
> > was talking about.
> > > When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> > For how long?
> >
> > --
> Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
> https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche
>
> The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'.. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.
>
> Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.
>
> How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.

Pfff. Not even long enough to make toast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ&ab_channel=TheToasterChallenge

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 6:29:02 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > >> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > >>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> > > >>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> > > >>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> > > >>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> > > >>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> > > >> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > > >
> > > > Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > > How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
> > > less than a minute to full exhaustion.
> > >
> > > If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
> > > do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
> > > it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
> > > was talking about.
> > > > When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> > > For how long?
> > >
> > > --
> > Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
> > https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche
> >
> > The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.
> >
> > Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.
> >
> > How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.
> Pfff. Not even long enough to make toast.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ&ab_channel=TheToasterChallenge

That is funny. Mathieu van der Poel averaged 738 Watt for 60 seconds during a gravel stretch. That German guy will be better on peak power but not necessarily better on average power over 1 minute. I think Mathieu would have produce a browner toast.

Lou

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 12:39:08 p.m. UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 6:29:02 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > >>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> > > > >>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> > > > >>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> > > > >>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> > > > >>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> > > > >> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > > > >
> > > > > Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > > > How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
> > > > less than a minute to full exhaustion.
> > > >
> > > > If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
> > > > do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please.. Is
> > > > it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
> > > > was talking about.
> > > > > When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> > > > For how long?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
> > > https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche
> > >
> > > The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.
> > >
> > > Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.
> > >
> > > How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.
> > Pfff. Not even long enough to make toast.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ&ab_channel=TheToasterChallenge
> That is funny. Mathieu van der Poel averaged 738 Watt for 60 seconds during a gravel stretch. That German guy will be better on peak power but not necessarily better on average power over 1 minute. I think Mathieu would have produce a browner toast.
>
> Lou

I noticed that at the 1:30 point that there was a graph showing 40 degrees climb. What power would he had maintained if he had been pedaling a f lat route the entire time?

Cheers

On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 11:53:31 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> > >>>
> > >>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> > >> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> > >> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> > >> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total..
> > >> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> > >>
> > >> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> > >
> > > Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> > A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.. When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
>
> Lou
There is a video on the net someplace that shows a Cat 2 in a race and the video displays the power readings. For the first several laps he is exceeding 1200 watts. Later in the race he is still hitting 900 watts. Franks continued reference to people who show the results of tests from half assed "athletes" is just the sort of thing that you can expect of someone that thinks that the world stopped with the invention of bar-end friction shifters.

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> > >>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> > >>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> > >>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> > >>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> > >>>
> > >>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> > >> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > >
> > > Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
> > less than a minute to full exhaustion.
> >
> > If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
> > do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
> > it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
> > was talking about.
> > > When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> > For how long?
> >
> > --
> Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
> https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche
>
> The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'.. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.
>
> Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.
>
> How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.
>
> Tom was mistaken about the speed of that 'kid' on that 14% grade climb and I pointed that out but what is the point going on and on about his mistake?

Lou, I was NOT mistaken, perhaps the speed reading of the Vuelta race management were, but I only reported their information. Telling me that I am wrong when I simply report the information supplied by the race management makes me wonder what your objective is.

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:39:08 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 6:29:02 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > >>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> > > > >>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> > > > >>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> > > > >>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> > > > >>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> > > > >> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > > > >
> > > > > Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > > > How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
> > > > less than a minute to full exhaustion.
> > > >
> > > > If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
> > > > do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please.. Is
> > > > it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
> > > > was talking about.
> > > > > When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> > > > For how long?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
> > > https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche
> > >
> > > The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.
> > >
> > > Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.
> > >
> > > How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.
> > Pfff. Not even long enough to make toast.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ&ab_channel=TheToasterChallenge
> That is funny. Mathieu van der Poel averaged 738 Watt for 60 seconds during a gravel stretch. That German guy will be better on peak power but not necessarily better on average power over 1 minute. I think Mathieu would have produce a browner toast.

"Road sprinters produce impressive watt outputs as they hurtle down the closing metres of a Grand Tour stage. Much has been made of André Greipel’s watt outputs: in 2018, the German Lotto Soudal sprinter reached 1903w and a peak speed of 76.8km/h in the final sprint of stage six at the Tour Down Under. He averaged 1326w over the entirety of his winning sprint. This came at the end of two hours racing on a 90km street circuit in Adelaide."

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 10:52:50 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 11:53:31 PM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > >> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> > > >> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> > > >> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> > > >> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> > > >> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> > > >>
> > > >> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> > > >
> > > > Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> > > A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds. When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> >
> > Lou
> There is a video on the net someplace that shows a Cat 2 in a race and the video displays the power readings. For the first several laps he is exceeding 1200 watts. Later in the race he is still hitting 900 watts. Franks continued reference to people who show the results of tests from half assed "athletes" is just the sort of thing that you can expect of someone that thinks that the world stopped with the invention of bar-end friction shifters.

Uh, no. A world class track cyclist with 74cm thighs is barely hitting 700 watts long enough to make a piece of toast. Some local Cat 2 rider is not exceeding 1200 wats for "several laps" -- whatever a lap may be, and then continuing to ride at 900 watts. BTW, I could easily ride at 1200 watts all day long if I cook the data I enter in the head-unit. I wouldn't put to much faith into the data.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/22/2021 12:01 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
>>>>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
>>>>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
>>>>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
>>>>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
>>>> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
>>>
>>> Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
>> How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
>> less than a minute to full exhaustion.
>>
>> If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
>> do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
>> it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
>> was talking about.
>>> When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
>> For how long?
>>
>> --
>
> Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec.

Your entire argument is based on your personal interpretation of "few."
You believe "few" should be less than ten. But when I said "a few
seconds" I meant in contrast to durations over a minute, as would apply
to someone climbing a 14% grade in a race - not just sprinting over a
hump in the road.

I think I made that clear in my further comments, when I said
"_Bicycling Science_, 3rd edition, p. has some data indicating an
extraordinary athlete can do it for less than a minute if he pedals to
exhaustion - not if he keeps riding afterward. I doubt any human can
maintain that for a minute, or can do it repeatedly."

Don't think like Tom. You're an engineer.

(P.S. I apologize for omitting the page number. It's page 44 of that
book. It's also in earlier editions, IIRC.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 8:01:16 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > >> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > >>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > >>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> > > >>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> > > >>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> > > >>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> > > >>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> > > >> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > > >
> > > > Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > > How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
> > > less than a minute to full exhaustion.
> > >
> > > If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
> > > do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
> > > it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
> > > was talking about.
> > > > When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> > > For how long?
> > >
> > > --
> > Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
> > https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche
> >
> > The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.
> >
> > Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.
> >
> > How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.
> >
> > Tom was mistaken about the speed of that 'kid' on that 14% grade climb and I pointed that out but what is the point going on and on about his mistake?
> Lou, I was NOT mistaken, perhaps the speed reading of the Vuelta race management were, but I only reported their information. Telling me that I am wrong when I simply report the information supplied by the race management makes me wonder what your objective is.

Tom, I saw the stage live (we have live coverage) and they were 'creeping' up the steep (14% grade) sections. of that climb. I would be surprised if the were going faster than 10 km/hr. The best GC riders doing about 400-450 Watt on a final climb like that.

Lou

On 8/22/2021 2:42 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 8:01:16 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
>>>>>>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
>>>>>>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
>>>>>>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
>>>>>>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
>>>>>> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
>>>> How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
>>>> less than a minute to full exhaustion.
>>>>
>>>> If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
>>>> do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
>>>> it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
>>>> was talking about.
>>>>> When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
>>>> For how long?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
>>> https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche
>>>
>>> The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.
>>>
>>> Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.
>>>
>>> How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.
>>>
>>> Tom was mistaken about the speed of that 'kid' on that 14% grade climb and I pointed that out but what is the point going on and on about his mistake?
>> Lou, I was NOT mistaken, perhaps the speed reading of the Vuelta race management were, but I only reported their information. Telling me that I am wrong when I simply report the information supplied by the race management makes me wonder what your objective is.
>
> Tom, I saw the stage live (we have live coverage) and they were 'creeping' up the steep (14% grade) sections. of that climb. I would be surprised if the were going faster than 10 km/hr. The best GC riders doing about 400-450 Watt on a final climb like that.

Thank you.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 11:44:20 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/22/2021 2:42 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 8:01:16 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>> On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> >>>>>>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> >>>>>>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> >>>>>>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> >>>>>>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> >>>>>> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> >>>> How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
> >>>> less than a minute to full exhaustion.
> >>>>
> >>>> If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
> >>>> do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
> >>>> it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
> >>>> was talking about.
> >>>>> When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> >>>> For how long?
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>> Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
> >>> https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche
> >>>
> >>> The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.
> >>>
> >>> Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.
> >>>
> >>> How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.
> >>>
> >>> Tom was mistaken about the speed of that 'kid' on that 14% grade climb and I pointed that out but what is the point going on and on about his mistake?
> >> Lou, I was NOT mistaken, perhaps the speed reading of the Vuelta race management were, but I only reported their information. Telling me that I am wrong when I simply report the information supplied by the race management makes me wonder what your objective is.
> >
> > Tom, I saw the stage live (we have live coverage) and they were 'creeping' up the steep (14% grade) sections. of that climb. I would be surprised if the were going faster than 10 km/hr. The best GC riders doing about 400-450 Watt on a final climb like that.https://www.velonews.com/events/vuelta-a-espana/power-analysis-vuelta-a-espana-stage-12/
> Thank you.
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Here is Sepp Kuss' power from stage 12 of the 2020 Vuelta. Speed on the steep section of the l'Angliru was 8.4mph. https://www.velonews.com/events/vuelta-a-espana/power-analysis-vuelta-a-espana-stage-12/ He got 6th place, so he wasn't back in the laughing group.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 1:11:51 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 11:44:20 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/22/2021 2:42 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 8:01:16 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:01:09 AM UTC-7, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 4:58:43 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>> On 8/22/2021 2:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 3:45:34 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>> On 8/21/2021 2:55 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 3:34:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On 8/20/2021 3:51 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 9:29:15 PM UTC+2, cycl...@gmail..com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Today, in the Vuelta on the steepest part of the final climb that kid was riding at almost 25 mph. Do you think he was going that with compact gearing?
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> 25 mph on a 14% climb? Yeah right. I think they have 52/36 cranksets.
> > >>>>>>>> To climb 14% at 25 mph, a lightweight 135 pound rider on a 15 pound bike
> > >>>>>>>> would need to put out 1050 Watts just to fight gravity. Add perhaps
> > >>>>>>>> another 150 Watts to fight air resistance, so about 1200 Watts total.
> > >>>>>>>> Even a pro won't be able to do that for more than a few seconds.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I think Tom is misremembering something here.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Unless you watched the Vuelta and saw the 39.4 kph rating perhaps you should keep your mouth shut. Cat 1 racers can accelerate at over a kilowatt out of every corner on a course. Why don't you tell me that isn't possible you sissy?
> > >>>>>> A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Few seconds, a sprinter? He can do more than 1200 Watts for a few seconds.
> > >>>> How many is your "more"? The source I cited with ergometer data said
> > >>>> less than a minute to full exhaustion.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If John and I can give links or citations to data, you should be able to
> > >>>> do the same. So give us data on how many Watts for how long, please. Is
> > >>>> it enough to climb a 14% grade of any practical length? That's what Tom
> > >>>> was talking about.
> > >>>>> When I accelerate out of a corner I can do 700-800 Watts.
> > >>>> For how long?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>> Frank you said : 'A top category athlete can produce 1200 Watts for a few seconds. '. A few seconds in my world is let's say less than 10 sec. In that case your statements in nonsense. The power numbers of Mathieu van der Poel during his win in this years edition of Strade Bianche are published. After a very hard race during his final attack he managed a maximum power of 1362 Watts.:
> > >>> https://wielerrevue.nl/artikel/447870/dit-zijn-de-indrukwekkende-cijfers-van-mathieu-van-der-poel-in-strade-bianche
> > >>>
> > >>> The Dutch track sprinters are currently the world best (number 1 and 2 during the last Olympics and winner of the team sprint). All of the 4 Dutch track sprinters manage power numbers well over 2000 Watt for a 'few seconds'. During training Jeffrey Hoogland broke his power meter crank at a power value of 2500 Watt and Jeffrey lost the Olympic final from Harrie Lavreysen another Dutch track sprinter that won the golden medal.
> > >>>
> > >>> Frank the winner of every sprint in the big races (currently the Vuelta = Tour of Spain) manage power over 1200 Watts for a few seconds. I know Marcel Kittel, the now retired German sprinter, could do 1800 Watts during a sprint in his best years.
> > >>>
> > >>> How long I manage 700-800 Watt accelerating hard out of a corner? 2 seconds I think.
> > >>>
> > >>> Tom was mistaken about the speed of that 'kid' on that 14% grade climb and I pointed that out but what is the point going on and on about his mistake?
> > >> Lou, I was NOT mistaken, perhaps the speed reading of the Vuelta race management were, but I only reported their information. Telling me that I am wrong when I simply report the information supplied by the race management makes me wonder what your objective is.
> > >
> > > Tom, I saw the stage live (we have live coverage) and they were 'creeping' up the steep (14% grade) sections. of that climb. I would be surprised if the were going faster than 10 km/hr. The best GC riders doing about 400-450 Watt on a final climb like that.https://www.velonews.com/events/vuelta-a-espana/power-analysis-vuelta-a-espana-stage-12/
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> Here is Sepp Kuss' power from stage 12 of the 2020 Vuelta. Speed on the steep section of the l'Angliru was 8.4mph. https://www.velonews.com/events/vuelta-a-espana/power-analysis-vuelta-a-espana-stage-12/ He got 6th place, so he wasn't back in the laughing group.

Jay, I was talking about, I believe it was, stage 7 which has a series of very hard climbs. That was the stage where Gandia literally flew away from the lead group and took time out of them all the way to the finish.

They showed a window on the screen while the picture was on Gandia that said 39.4 kph. Now that might have been a mistake and it might have been the pack which was descending but that is slow for descending isn't it?