I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use. It's not on a bicycle yet because...

When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However, if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel sitting on the table overnight, the next day the freewheel is seized again.

Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?

Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses) that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or rebuild it.

Thanks and cheers

On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use. It's not on a bicycle yet because...
>
> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However, if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel sitting on the table overnight, the next day the freewheel is seized again.
>
> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
>
> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses) that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or rebuild it.
>
> Thanks and cheers
>

Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is to
spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it runs
clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the ideal
problem as it has a simple solution.

It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly (rarely)
a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I suggest a
freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.

You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html

It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home with
insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.

We have a vise mounted tool[1] to hold the body (I do a
rare/expensive freewheel body every other year or so). Cover
removes anticlockwise with a punch, alternating the two
divots until free.

Bearing is adjusted by adding[1] or removing shims under the
cover plate, just like a classic Jaguar V12 valve adjustment
(x24 valves) which is the most tedious mechanical job known
to man[2].

Cover plate is driven home tight with a punch when you're
done. If it's not fully tight, your freewheel will
self-disassemble in use.

bon chance

[1]something you do not have
[2]http://www.jag-lovers.org/saloons/faq/valve.html
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:53:56 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use. It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> >
> > When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However, if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel sitting on the table overnight, the next day the freewheel is seized again.
> >
> > Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> >
> > Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses) that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or rebuild it.
> >
> > Thanks and cheers
> >
> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is to
> spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it runs
> clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the ideal
> problem as it has a simple solution.
>
> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly (rarely)
> a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I suggest a
> freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
>
> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
>
> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home with
> insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
>
> We have a vise mounted tool[1] to hold the body (I do a
> rare/expensive freewheel body every other year or so). Cover
> removes anticlockwise with a punch, alternating the two
> divots until free.
>
> Bearing is adjusted by adding[1] or removing shims under the
> cover plate, just like a classic Jaguar V12 valve adjustment
> (x24 valves) which is the most tedious mechanical job known
> to man[2].
>
> Cover plate is driven home tight with a punch when you're
> done. If it's not fully tight, your freewheel will
> self-disassemble in use.
>
> bon chance
>
> [1]something you do not have
> [2]http://www.jag-lovers.org/saloons/faq/valve.html

I remember the first time I opened a freewheel and all the tiny balls fell out. I think it was $10-12 for a Regina Oro at the time and sub-$10 for a Suntour or Everest or some other brand. Freewheels were cheap except for the super-exotic models. If a flush didn't work, you just saved the cogs and got a new freewheel.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use. It's not on
>> a bicycle yet because...
>>
>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However, if I run oil
>> along the very slight gap on t he front of the freewheel between  the
>> cogs holder and the body and then do t he same to the rear, I can get
>> the freewheel to spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the freewheel is seized
>> again.
>>
>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
>>
>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses) that holds
>> everything together turn counterclockwise to loosen? I want to open up
>> this freewheel and take a peak inside to see if I can figure out the
>> problem and/or rebuild it.
>>
>> Thanks and cheers
>>
>
> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is to spin it in
> your fingers while running oil through it. Usually the oil comes out
> with crud; continue until it runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight.
> This would be the ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
>
> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be large enough
> to not fall through the back. Possibly (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or
> spring[1]. At which point I suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only
> $59.95.
>
> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your freewheel body.
> Even dead people know this:
> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
>
> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home with
> insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.

I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many years ago.
But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel body, just trade them out.

My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With my brand new
touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio with a friend, west to
east, starting Labor Day.

A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with me called
out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour freewheel had come
apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded prongs that received the outside
cone had cracked.) That part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and
completely dead on Labor Day.

We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find when a
homeowner living along the rural road asked if we were OK. He soon
volunteered his garage workshop.

We could put things back together, but we were short maybe 100 little
balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of electrical wire whose
insulation outer diameter was close enough to 1/8". We greased that up
and used it on the inside race. We put balls in the outside race, and
IIRC used Loctite to keep the cone in place.

It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try coasting. So
he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50 miles farther that day,
to our stop in a town with a bike shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
>>>
>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
>>> freewheel is seized again.
>>>
>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
>>>
>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
>>> rebuild it.
>>>
>>> Thanks and cheers
>>>
>>
>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
>>
>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
>>
>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
>>
>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
>
> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> body, just trade them out.
>
> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
>
> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> dead on Labor Day.
>
> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
>
> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
>
> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
>

What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
For extra points, note that any related or unrelated
subsequent failure is your liability.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:53:56 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use. It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> >
> > When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However, if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel sitting on the table overnight, the next day the freewheel is seized again.
> >
> > Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> >
> > Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses) that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or rebuild it.
> >
> > Thanks and cheers
> >
> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is to
> spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it runs
> clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the ideal
> problem as it has a simple solution.
>
> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly (rarely)
> a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I suggest a
> freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
>
> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
>
> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home with
> insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
>
> We have a vise mounted tool[1] to hold the body (I do a
> rare/expensive freewheel body every other year or so). Cover
> removes anticlockwise with a punch, alternating the two
> divots until free.
>
> Bearing is adjusted by adding[1] or removing shims under the
> cover plate, just like a classic Jaguar V12 valve adjustment
> (x24 valves) which is the most tedious mechanical job known
> to man[2].
>
> Cover plate is driven home tight with a punch when you're
> done. If it's not fully tight, your freewheel will
> self-disassemble in use.
>
> bon chance
>
> [1]something you do not have
> [2]http://www.jag-lovers.org/saloons/faq/valve.html
I don't think that the problem is crud alone but rusty and pitted bearings. Freewheels are still too cheap to bother rebuilding.

On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
>>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
>>>>
>>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
>>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
>>>> the freewheel between  the cogs holder and the body and
>>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
>>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
>>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
>>>> freewheel is seized again.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
>>>>
>>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
>>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
>>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
>>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
>>>> rebuild it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks and cheers
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
>>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
>>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
>>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
>>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
>>>
>>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
>>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
>>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
>>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
>>>
>>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
>>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
>>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
>>>
>>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
>>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
>>
>> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
>> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
>> body, just trade them out.
>>
>> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
>> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
>> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
>>
>> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
>> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
>> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
>> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
>> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
>> dead on Labor Day.
>>
>> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
>> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
>> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
>>
>> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
>> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
>> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
>> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
>> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
>> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
>>
>> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
>> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
>> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
>> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
>>
>
> What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> For extra  points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> is your liability.

As I said: I agree, just trade them out.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:53:56 a.m. UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use. It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> >
> > When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However, if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel sitting on the table overnight, the next day the freewheel is seized again.
> >
> > Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> >
> > Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses) that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or rebuild it.
> >
> > Thanks and cheers
> >
> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is to
> spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it runs
> clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the ideal
> problem as it has a simple solution.
>
> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly (rarely)
> a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I suggest a
> freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
>
> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
>
> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home with
> insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
>
> We have a vise mounted tool[1] to hold the body (I do a
> rare/expensive freewheel body every other year or so). Cover
> removes anticlockwise with a punch, alternating the two
> divots until free.
>
> Bearing is adjusted by adding[1] or removing shims under the
> cover plate, just like a classic Jaguar V12 valve adjustment
> (x24 valves) which is the most tedious mechanical job known
> to man[2].
>
> Cover plate is driven home tight with a punch when you're
> done. If it's not fully tight, your freewheel will
> self-disassemble in use.
>
> bon chance
>
> [1]something you do not have
> [2]http://www.jag-lovers.org/saloons/faq/valve.html
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Thanks Andrew.

I have take apart and reassemble many freewheels but it's been a number of years since I've done so and I just wanted to confirm t hat the lockring turned counter-clockwise to loosen. I have the too for undoing that lockring without having to resort to the hammer and punch method of loosening it.

My idea was to loosen that lockring enough so that any small foreign material inside could be flushed out past the rear of the body. In a worst case scenario I'd then disassemble the freewheel and rebuild it. That's cheaper than ordering one online as freewheels are very rare right now anywhere around here especially 6-speed ones. Plus I know that the Suntour Perfect is a quality product.

I hate to throw away components that can be salvaged and made to work as good as new with a bit of effort and tender loving care.

I went and bought a can of WD-40 and gave t he freewheel a really good flushing. We'll see if it seizes up again overnight.

Cheers

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> >>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
> >>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> >>>>
> >>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
> >>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
> >>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
> >>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
> >>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
> >>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
> >>>> freewheel is seized again.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
> >>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
> >>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
> >>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
> >>>> rebuild it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks and cheers
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
> >>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> >>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
> >>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
> >>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
> >>>
> >>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> >>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
> >>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
> >>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
> >>>
> >>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> >>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> >>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
> >>>
> >>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
> >>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
> >>
> >> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> >> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> >> body, just trade them out.
> >>
> >> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> >> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> >> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
> >>
> >> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> >> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> >> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> >> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> >> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> >> dead on Labor Day.
> >>
> >> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> >> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> >> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
> >>
> >> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> >> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> >> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> >> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> >> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> >> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
> >>
> >> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> >> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> >> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> >> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
> >>
> >
> > What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> > For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> > is your liability.
> As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt a Shimano 7-speed freehub.

Cheers

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > >> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > >>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
> > >>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
> > >>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
> > >>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
> > >>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
> > >>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
> > >>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
> > >>>> freewheel is seized again.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
> > >>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
> > >>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
> > >>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
> > >>>> rebuild it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks and cheers
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
> > >>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> > >>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
> > >>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
> > >>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
> > >>>
> > >>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> > >>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
> > >>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
> > >>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
> > >>>
> > >>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> > >>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> > >>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
> > >>>
> > >>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
> > >>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
> > >>
> > >> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> > >> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> > >> body, just trade them out.
> > >>
> > >> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> > >> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> > >> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
> > >>
> > >> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> > >> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> > >> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> > >> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> > >> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> > >> dead on Labor Day.
> > >>
> > >> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> > >> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> > >> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
> > >>
> > >> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> > >> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> > >> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> > >> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> > >> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> > >> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
> > >>
> > >> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> > >> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> > >> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> > >> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
> > >>
> > >
> > > What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> > > For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> > > is your liability.
> > As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt a Shimano 7-speed freehub..
>
> Cheers
If there is one thing that is really worthwhile it is trying to repair a freewheel which no doubt has bad bearings when you can buy a new replacement for $20. https://www.ebay.com/itm/402352487539?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5dae13bc73:g:-ZQAAOSwBLNfLDFK&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzTrfxU0PnnINOOwAXiWgrwkrCtGGmTSH%252FEorCrHAhnAwlvnrMJS2qdpx5Uff0H4WcVcX%252BQhfzGzGOl2%252FS13GqolXTqOSfIF1ht7apfSWWt2Z6fz4tR0u%252BqVNJE%252FQ1efLum6ABpUInffM%252FO6p3aqLnS%252F5wzYfYbP4gjuDZDsT2Mu7F%252F2IFTVF7farCYThmRMa28U6XaoOAI9UI6EXJEhh%252F0XsZxQtXBW%252FOlRP5A4tfSjfIEnZ8G2YG5%252FvfSgQY7WxadYLgVOAPw%252BeRUb93Dea%252FTXcCXjJOVCEs1yE7Bvi6nsc249rYG71Cblq9G%252BCARKs9KaKycFMJT6Ks8BMp%252FuGrAncH2U1wIvl0kx%252FkRo8ln2dEJh5VIUihbvdgXrCTsX1UZrpfRfUN0Kl8ybQBBFE60ylaC9GlpJdy2T%252B973bcQCT4tsO1HY6rQ0YMT0hhfllPh%252BJYkpegfF9bL585QosduiYNoT3ZOd97PH%252F1FewNfPIZZNYKQdVPPloISfYLIAXTFJ%252F6AtQd6WcIEg3nx79rpUCzLvQCVIEaytuSO3AvOO78QEhMmR7Lz8jPA9g42EYgLbpq7PtnGEln%252BM4IzR70Ar61LJ79C03R9Pv6fpFIzWmcJhahi3bsEZT0bo5jJa7m2NIvWJC2r%252FlqMK%252FYCd90GAd0Nbv4nQQXgN9XhBKNetVmWqn11kYzlXcB2T0xjXlaxTnvvFYtDWOuTCXASFOrWQTdoNdJONPbAJyuacs0vTVjAA9tQv1UDshFFdPt%252BBLLp0qXiMp8PlT6sdRMc59SSDxknnK2J2n26nD8dwBrcml%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:05:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > >> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > >>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
> > > >>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
> > > >>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
> > > >>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
> > > >>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
> > > >>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
> > > >>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
> > > >>>> freewheel is seized again.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
> > > >>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
> > > >>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
> > > >>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
> > > >>>> rebuild it.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks and cheers
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
> > > >>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> > > >>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
> > > >>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
> > > >>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> > > >>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
> > > >>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
> > > >>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> > > >>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> > > >>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
> > > >>>
> > > >>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
> > > >>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
> > > >>
> > > >> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> > > >> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> > > >> body, just trade them out.
> > > >>
> > > >> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> > > >> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> > > >> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
> > > >>
> > > >> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> > > >> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> > > >> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> > > >> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> > > >> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> > > >> dead on Labor Day.
> > > >>
> > > >> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> > > >> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> > > >> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
> > > >>
> > > >> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> > > >> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> > > >> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> > > >> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> > > >> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> > > >> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
> > > >>
> > > >> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> > > >> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> > > >> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> > > >> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> > > > For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> > > > is your liability.
> > > As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Frank Krygowski
> > Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt a Shimano 7-speed freehub.
> >
> > Cheers
> If there is one thing that is really worthwhile it is trying to repair a freewheel which no doubt has bad bearings when you can buy a new replacement for $20. https://www.ebay.com/itm/402352487539?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5dae13bc73:g:-ZQAAOSwBLNfLDFK&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzTrfxU0PnnINOOwAXiWgrwkrCtGGmTSH%252FEorCrHAhnAwlvnrMJS2qdpx5Uff0H4WcVcX%252BQhfzGzGOl2%252FS13GqolXTqOSfIF1ht7apfSWWt2Z6fz4tR0u%252BqVNJE%252FQ1efLum6ABpUInffM%252FO6p3aqLnS%252F5wzYfYbP4gjuDZDsT2Mu7F%252F2IFTVF7farCYThmRMa28U6XaoOAI9UI6EXJEhh%252F0XsZxQtXBW%252FOlRP5A4tfSjfIEnZ8G2YG5%252FvfSgQY7WxadYLgVOAPw%252BeRUb93Dea%252FTXcCXjJOVCEs1yE7Bvi6nsc249rYG71Cblq9G%252BCARKs9KaKycFMJT6Ks8BMp%252FuGrAncH2U1wIvl0kx%252FkRo8ln2dEJh5VIUihbvdgXrCTsX1UZrpfRfUN0Kl8ybQBBFE60ylaC9GlpJdy2T%252B973bcQCT4tsO1HY6rQ0YMT0hhfllPh%252BJYkpegfF9bL585QosduiYNoT3ZOd97PH%252F1FewNfPIZZNYKQdVPPloISfYLIAXTFJ%252F6AtQd6WcIEg3nx79rpUCzLvQCVIEaytuSO3AvOO78QEhMmR7Lz8jPA9g42EYgLbpq7PtnGEln%252BM4IzR70Ar61LJ79C03R9Pv6fpFIzWmcJhahi3bsEZT0bo5jJa7m2NIvWJC2r%252FlqMK%252FYCd90GAd0Nbv4nQQXgN9XhBKNetVmWqn11kYzlXcB2T0xjXlaxTnvvFYtDWOuTCXASFOrWQTdoNdJONPbAJyuacs0vTVjAA9tQv1UDshFFdPt%252BBLLp0qXiMp8PlT6sdRMc59SSDxknnK2J2n26nD8dwBrcml%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524

Yikes! You need TinyURL. And who says the bearings are shot?

It is true that once you get into the freewheel and find some serious damage like a bad pawl or spring, you're basically at the end of the road unless you have a bunch of donor freewheel bodies sitting around. Most fixable problems are fixable with a flush and relube without opening the freewheel. One fixable problem that may or may not be solved with flushing is serious grease solidification gooping up the pawls -- which may be an issue with some NOS freewheel from the '70s or an unused freewheel with heavy grease injected way-back-when with one of those injectors. It sounds like Sir may have that problem -- throwing in the light oil gets it to work, but when that evaporates or migrates, the pawl gets stuck. It sounds like a pawl issue because the freewheel seizes and just doesn't get draggy. But I can be totally wrong, because I haven't opened a freewheel in 30 years, being that I live in the modern era. Anyway, this might be one of those situations where it can be opened up and fixed, and for a hobbyist, the time isn't that big of an issue.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:31:53 p.m. UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:05:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > >>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
> > > > >>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
> > > > >>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
> > > > >>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
> > > > >>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
> > > > >>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
> > > > >>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
> > > > >>>> freewheel is seized again.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
> > > > >>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
> > > > >>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
> > > > >>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
> > > > >>>> rebuild it.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Thanks and cheers
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
> > > > >>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> > > > >>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
> > > > >>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
> > > > >>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> > > > >>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
> > > > >>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
> > > > >>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> > > > >>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> > > > >>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
> > > > >>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> > > > >> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> > > > >> body, just trade them out.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> > > > >> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> > > > >> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> > > > >> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> > > > >> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> > > > >> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> > > > >> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> > > > >> dead on Labor Day.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> > > > >> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> > > > >> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> > > > >> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> > > > >> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> > > > >> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> > > > >> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> > > > >> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> > > > >> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> > > > >> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> > > > >> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> > > > > For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> > > > > is your liability.
> > > > As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt a Shimano 7-speed freehub.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > If there is one thing that is really worthwhile it is trying to repair a freewheel which no doubt has bad bearings when you can buy a new replacement for $20. https://www.ebay.com/itm/402352487539?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5dae13bc73:g:-ZQAAOSwBLNfLDFK&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzTrfxU0PnnINOOwAXiWgrwkrCtGGmTSH%252FEorCrHAhnAwlvnrMJS2qdpx5Uff0H4WcVcX%252BQhfzGzGOl2%252FS13GqolXTqOSfIF1ht7apfSWWt2Z6fz4tR0u%252BqVNJE%252FQ1efLum6ABpUInffM%252FO6p3aqLnS%252F5wzYfYbP4gjuDZDsT2Mu7F%252F2IFTVF7farCYThmRMa28U6XaoOAI9UI6EXJEhh%252F0XsZxQtXBW%252FOlRP5A4tfSjfIEnZ8G2YG5%252FvfSgQY7WxadYLgVOAPw%252BeRUb93Dea%252FTXcCXjJOVCEs1yE7Bvi6nsc249rYG71Cblq9G%252BCARKs9KaKycFMJT6Ks8BMp%252FuGrAncH2U1wIvl0kx%252FkRo8ln2dEJh5VIUihbvdgXrCTsX1UZrpfRfUN0Kl8ybQBBFE60ylaC9GlpJdy2T%252B973bcQCT4tsO1HY6rQ0YMT0hhfllPh%252BJYkpegfF9bL585QosduiYNoT3ZOd97PH%252F1FewNfPIZZNYKQdVPPloISfYLIAXTFJ%252F6AtQd6WcIEg3nx79rpUCzLvQCVIEaytuSO3AvOO78QEhMmR7Lz8jPA9g42EYgLbpq7PtnGEln%252BM4IzR70Ar61LJ79C03R9Pv6fpFIzWmcJhahi3bsEZT0bo5jJa7m2NIvWJC2r%252FlqMK%252FYCd90GAd0Nbv4nQQXgN9XhBKNetVmWqn11kYzlXcB2T0xjXlaxTnvvFYtDWOuTCXASFOrWQTdoNdJONPbAJyuacs0vTVjAA9tQv1UDshFFdPt%252BBLLp0qXiMp8PlT6sdRMc59SSDxknnK2J2n26nD8dwBrcml%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
> Yikes! You need TinyURL. And who says the bearings are shot?
>
> It is true that once you get into the freewheel and find some serious damage like a bad pawl or spring, you're basically at the end of the road unless you have a bunch of donor freewheel bodies sitting around. Most fixable problems are fixable with a flush and relube without opening the freewheel. One fixable problem that may or may not be solved with flushing is serious grease solidification gooping up the pawls -- which may be an issue with some NOS freewheel from the '70s or an unused freewheel with heavy grease injected way-back-when with one of those injectors. It sounds like Sir may have that problem -- throwing in the light oil gets it to work, but when that evaporates or migrates, the pawl gets stuck. It sounds like a pawl issue because the freewheel seizes and just doesn't get draggy. But I can be totally wrong, because I haven't opened a freewheel in 30 years, being that I live in the modern era. Anyway, this might be one of those situations where it can be opened up and fixed, and for a hobbyist, the time isn't that big of an issue.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

+10

I just checked that freewheel and it's still working like it should. I'm leaving it sitting on a piece of paper towel and if it's still working right tomorrow morning I'll install it on the wheel.

Exactly.

Cheers

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 11:31:53 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:05:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > >> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > >>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
> > > > >>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
> > > > >>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
> > > > >>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
> > > > >>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
> > > > >>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
> > > > >>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
> > > > >>>> freewheel is seized again.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
> > > > >>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
> > > > >>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
> > > > >>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
> > > > >>>> rebuild it.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Thanks and cheers
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
> > > > >>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> > > > >>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
> > > > >>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
> > > > >>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> > > > >>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
> > > > >>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
> > > > >>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> > > > >>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> > > > >>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
> > > > >>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> > > > >> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> > > > >> body, just trade them out.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> > > > >> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> > > > >> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> > > > >> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> > > > >> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> > > > >> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> > > > >> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> > > > >> dead on Labor Day.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> > > > >> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> > > > >> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> > > > >> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> > > > >> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> > > > >> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> > > > >> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> > > > >> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> > > > >> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> > > > >> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> > > > >> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> > > > > For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> > > > > is your liability.
> > > > As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt a Shimano 7-speed freehub.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > If there is one thing that is really worthwhile it is trying to repair a freewheel which no doubt has bad bearings when you can buy a new replacement for $20. https://www.ebay.com/itm/402352487539?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5dae13bc73:g:-ZQAAOSwBLNfLDFK&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzTrfxU0PnnINOOwAXiWgrwkrCtGGmTSH%252FEorCrHAhnAwlvnrMJS2qdpx5Uff0H4WcVcX%252BQhfzGzGOl2%252FS13GqolXTqOSfIF1ht7apfSWWt2Z6fz4tR0u%252BqVNJE%252FQ1efLum6ABpUInffM%252FO6p3aqLnS%252F5wzYfYbP4gjuDZDsT2Mu7F%252F2IFTVF7farCYThmRMa28U6XaoOAI9UI6EXJEhh%252F0XsZxQtXBW%252FOlRP5A4tfSjfIEnZ8G2YG5%252FvfSgQY7WxadYLgVOAPw%252BeRUb93Dea%252FTXcCXjJOVCEs1yE7Bvi6nsc249rYG71Cblq9G%252BCARKs9KaKycFMJT6Ks8BMp%252FuGrAncH2U1wIvl0kx%252FkRo8ln2dEJh5VIUihbvdgXrCTsX1UZrpfRfUN0Kl8ybQBBFE60ylaC9GlpJdy2T%252B973bcQCT4tsO1HY6rQ0YMT0hhfllPh%252BJYkpegfF9bL585QosduiYNoT3ZOd97PH%252F1FewNfPIZZNYKQdVPPloISfYLIAXTFJ%252F6AtQd6WcIEg3nx79rpUCzLvQCVIEaytuSO3AvOO78QEhMmR7Lz8jPA9g42EYgLbpq7PtnGEln%252BM4IzR70Ar61LJ79C03R9Pv6fpFIzWmcJhahi3bsEZT0bo5jJa7m2NIvWJC2r%252FlqMK%252FYCd90GAd0Nbv4nQQXgN9XhBKNetVmWqn11kYzlXcB2T0xjXlaxTnvvFYtDWOuTCXASFOrWQTdoNdJONPbAJyuacs0vTVjAA9tQv1UDshFFdPt%252BBLLp0qXiMp8PlT6sdRMc59SSDxknnK2J2n26nD8dwBrcml%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
> Yikes! You need TinyURL. And who says the bearings are shot?
>
> It is true that once you get into the freewheel and find some serious damage like a bad pawl or spring, you're basically at the end of the road unless you have a bunch of donor freewheel bodies sitting around. Most fixable problems are fixable with a flush and relube without opening the freewheel. One fixable problem that may or may not be solved with flushing is serious grease solidification gooping up the pawls -- which may be an issue with some NOS freewheel from the '70s or an unused freewheel with heavy grease injected way-back-when with one of those injectors. It sounds like Sir may have that problem -- throwing in the light oil gets it to work, but when that evaporates or migrates, the pawl gets stuck. It sounds like a pawl issue because the freewheel seizes and just doesn't get draggy. But I can be totally wrong, because I haven't opened a freewheel in 30 years, being that I live in the modern era. Anyway, this might be one of those situations where it can be opened up and fixed, and for a hobbyist, the time isn't that big of an issue.

Sure Jay, sticking AFTER oiling the freewheel from both ends and then sticking again after it frees up tells you that the bearings are just like new.

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 11:31:53 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:05:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > >> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > >>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > > >>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
> > > > > >>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
> > > > > >>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
> > > > > >>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
> > > > > >>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
> > > > > >>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
> > > > > >>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
> > > > > >>>> freewheel is seized again.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
> > > > > >>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
> > > > > >>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
> > > > > >>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
> > > > > >>>> rebuild it.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Thanks and cheers
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
> > > > > >>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> > > > > >>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
> > > > > >>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
> > > > > >>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> > > > > >>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
> > > > > >>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
> > > > > >>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> > > > > >>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> > > > > >>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
> > > > > >>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> > > > > >> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> > > > > >> body, just trade them out.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> > > > > >> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> > > > > >> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> > > > > >> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> > > > > >> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> > > > > >> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> > > > > >> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> > > > > >> dead on Labor Day.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> > > > > >> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> > > > > >> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> > > > > >> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> > > > > >> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> > > > > >> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> > > > > >> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> > > > > >> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> > > > > >> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> > > > > >> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> > > > > >> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> > > > > > For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> > > > > > is your liability.
> > > > > As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > > Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt a Shimano 7-speed freehub.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > If there is one thing that is really worthwhile it is trying to repair a freewheel which no doubt has bad bearings when you can buy a new replacement for $20. https://www.ebay.com/itm/402352487539?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5dae13bc73:g:-ZQAAOSwBLNfLDFK&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzTrfxU0PnnINOOwAXiWgrwkrCtGGmTSH%252FEorCrHAhnAwlvnrMJS2qdpx5Uff0H4WcVcX%252BQhfzGzGOl2%252FS13GqolXTqOSfIF1ht7apfSWWt2Z6fz4tR0u%252BqVNJE%252FQ1efLum6ABpUInffM%252FO6p3aqLnS%252F5wzYfYbP4gjuDZDsT2Mu7F%252F2IFTVF7farCYThmRMa28U6XaoOAI9UI6EXJEhh%252F0XsZxQtXBW%252FOlRP5A4tfSjfIEnZ8G2YG5%252FvfSgQY7WxadYLgVOAPw%252BeRUb93Dea%252FTXcCXjJOVCEs1yE7Bvi6nsc249rYG71Cblq9G%252BCARKs9KaKycFMJT6Ks8BMp%252FuGrAncH2U1wIvl0kx%252FkRo8ln2dEJh5VIUihbvdgXrCTsX1UZrpfRfUN0Kl8ybQBBFE60ylaC9GlpJdy2T%252B973bcQCT4tsO1HY6rQ0YMT0hhfllPh%252BJYkpegfF9bL585QosduiYNoT3ZOd97PH%252F1FewNfPIZZNYKQdVPPloISfYLIAXTFJ%252F6AtQd6WcIEg3nx79rpUCzLvQCVIEaytuSO3AvOO78QEhMmR7Lz8jPA9g42EYgLbpq7PtnGEln%252BM4IzR70Ar61LJ79C03R9Pv6fpFIzWmcJhahi3bsEZT0bo5jJa7m2NIvWJC2r%252FlqMK%252FYCd90GAd0Nbv4nQQXgN9XhBKNetVmWqn11kYzlXcB2T0xjXlaxTnvvFYtDWOuTCXASFOrWQTdoNdJONPbAJyuacs0vTVjAA9tQv1UDshFFdPt%252BBLLp0qXiMp8PlT6sdRMc59SSDxknnK2J2n26nD8dwBrcml%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
> > Yikes! You need TinyURL. And who says the bearings are shot?
> >
> > It is true that once you get into the freewheel and find some serious damage like a bad pawl or spring, you're basically at the end of the road unless you have a bunch of donor freewheel bodies sitting around. Most fixable problems are fixable with a flush and relube without opening the freewheel. One fixable problem that may or may not be solved with flushing is serious grease solidification gooping up the pawls -- which may be an issue with some NOS freewheel from the '70s or an unused freewheel with heavy grease injected way-back-when with one of those injectors. It sounds like Sir may have that problem -- throwing in the light oil gets it to work, but when that evaporates or migrates, the pawl gets stuck. It sounds like a pawl issue because the freewheel seizes and just doesn't get draggy. But I can be totally wrong, because I haven't opened a freewheel in 30 years, being that I live in the modern era. Anyway, this might be one of those situations where it can be opened up and fixed, and for a hobbyist, the time isn't that big of an issue.
> Sure Jay, sticking AFTER oiling the freewheel from both ends and then sticking again after it frees up tells you that the bearings are just like new..

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 4:26:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 11:31:53 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:05:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > >> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > >>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > > > >>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
> > > > > > >>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
> > > > > > >>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
> > > > > > >>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
> > > > > > >>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
> > > > > > >>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
> > > > > > >>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
> > > > > > >>>> freewheel is seized again.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
> > > > > > >>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
> > > > > > >>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
> > > > > > >>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
> > > > > > >>>> rebuild it.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Thanks and cheers
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
> > > > > > >>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> > > > > > >>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
> > > > > > >>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
> > > > > > >>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> > > > > > >>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
> > > > > > >>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
> > > > > > >>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> > > > > > >>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> > > > > > >>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
> > > > > > >>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> > > > > > >> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> > > > > > >> body, just trade them out.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> > > > > > >> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> > > > > > >> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> > > > > > >> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> > > > > > >> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> > > > > > >> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> > > > > > >> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> > > > > > >> dead on Labor Day.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> > > > > > >> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> > > > > > >> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> > > > > > >> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> > > > > > >> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> > > > > > >> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> > > > > > >> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> > > > > > >> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> > > > > > >> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> > > > > > >> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> > > > > > >> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> > > > > > > For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> > > > > > > is your liability.
> > > > > > As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > > > Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt a Shimano 7-speed freehub.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > If there is one thing that is really worthwhile it is trying to repair a freewheel which no doubt has bad bearings when you can buy a new replacement for $20. https://www.ebay.com/itm/402352487539?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5dae13bc73:g:-ZQAAOSwBLNfLDFK&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzTrfxU0PnnINOOwAXiWgrwkrCtGGmTSH%252FEorCrHAhnAwlvnrMJS2qdpx5Uff0H4WcVcX%252BQhfzGzGOl2%252FS13GqolXTqOSfIF1ht7apfSWWt2Z6fz4tR0u%252BqVNJE%252FQ1efLum6ABpUInffM%252FO6p3aqLnS%252F5wzYfYbP4gjuDZDsT2Mu7F%252F2IFTVF7farCYThmRMa28U6XaoOAI9UI6EXJEhh%252F0XsZxQtXBW%252FOlRP5A4tfSjfIEnZ8G2YG5%252FvfSgQY7WxadYLgVOAPw%252BeRUb93Dea%252FTXcCXjJOVCEs1yE7Bvi6nsc249rYG71Cblq9G%252BCARKs9KaKycFMJT6Ks8BMp%252FuGrAncH2U1wIvl0kx%252FkRo8ln2dEJh5VIUihbvdgXrCTsX1UZrpfRfUN0Kl8ybQBBFE60ylaC9GlpJdy2T%252B973bcQCT4tsO1HY6rQ0YMT0hhfllPh%252BJYkpegfF9bL585QosduiYNoT3ZOd97PH%252F1FewNfPIZZNYKQdVPPloISfYLIAXTFJ%252F6AtQd6WcIEg3nx79rpUCzLvQCVIEaytuSO3AvOO78QEhMmR7Lz8jPA9g42EYgLbpq7PtnGEln%252BM4IzR70Ar61LJ79C03R9Pv6fpFIzWmcJhahi3bsEZT0bo5jJa7m2NIvWJC2r%252FlqMK%252FYCd90GAd0Nbv4nQQXgN9XhBKNetVmWqn11kYzlXcB2T0xjXlaxTnvvFYtDWOuTCXASFOrWQTdoNdJONPbAJyuacs0vTVjAA9tQv1UDshFFdPt%252BBLLp0qXiMp8PlT6sdRMc59SSDxknnK2J2n26nD8dwBrcml%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
> > > Yikes! You need TinyURL. And who says the bearings are shot?
> > >
> > > It is true that once you get into the freewheel and find some serious damage like a bad pawl or spring, you're basically at the end of the road unless you have a bunch of donor freewheel bodies sitting around. Most fixable problems are fixable with a flush and relube without opening the freewheel. One fixable problem that may or may not be solved with flushing is serious grease solidification gooping up the pawls -- which may be an issue with some NOS freewheel from the '70s or an unused freewheel with heavy grease injected way-back-when with one of those injectors. It sounds like Sir may have that problem -- throwing in the light oil gets it to work, but when that evaporates or migrates, the pawl gets stuck. It sounds like a pawl issue because the freewheel seizes and just doesn't get draggy. But I can be totally wrong, because I haven't opened a freewheel in 30 years, being that I live in the modern era. Anyway, this might be one of those situations where it can be opened up and fixed, and for a hobbyist, the time isn't that big of an issue.
> > Sure Jay, sticking AFTER oiling the freewheel from both ends and then sticking again after it frees up tells you that the bearings are just like new.
> Who knows. Periodic locking-up seems like a pawl/ratchet issue and not a bearing issues. If this is a NOS, I doubt the bearings are bad, and if the lubrication is bad, then they would just be draggy or rough. It apparently now works, so we'll never know -- and we'll never know if Sir could have gotten it back together. The nice part about freehub bodies that you don't have to wrestle with the pawls.
Once you have oiled and freed up a ratchet assembly in a freewheel what would you suggest would cause it to freeze again?

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:01:36 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 4:26:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 11:31:53 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:05:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use..
> > > > > > > >>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
> > > > > > > >>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
> > > > > > > >>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
> > > > > > > >>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
> > > > > > > >>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
> > > > > > > >>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
> > > > > > > >>>> freewheel is seized again.
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
> > > > > > > >>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
> > > > > > > >>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
> > > > > > > >>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
> > > > > > > >>>> rebuild it.
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> Thanks and cheers
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
> > > > > > > >>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
> > > > > > > >>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
> > > > > > > >>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
> > > > > > > >>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> > > > > > > >>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
> > > > > > > >>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
> > > > > > > >>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> > > > > > > >>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> > > > > > > >>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
> > > > > > > >>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> > > > > > > >> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> > > > > > > >> body, just trade them out.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> > > > > > > >> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> > > > > > > >> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> > > > > > > >> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> > > > > > > >> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> > > > > > > >> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> > > > > > > >> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> > > > > > > >> dead on Labor Day.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> > > > > > > >> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> > > > > > > >> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> > > > > > > >> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> > > > > > > >> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> > > > > > > >> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> > > > > > > >> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> > > > > > > >> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> > > > > > > >> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> > > > > > > >> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> > > > > > > >> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> > > > > > > > For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> > > > > > > > is your liability.
> > > > > > > As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > > > > Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt a Shimano 7-speed freehub.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > If there is one thing that is really worthwhile it is trying to repair a freewheel which no doubt has bad bearings when you can buy a new replacement for $20. https://www.ebay.com/itm/402352487539?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5dae13bc73:g:-ZQAAOSwBLNfLDFK&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzTrfxU0PnnINOOwAXiWgrwkrCtGGmTSH%252FEorCrHAhnAwlvnrMJS2qdpx5Uff0H4WcVcX%252BQhfzGzGOl2%252FS13GqolXTqOSfIF1ht7apfSWWt2Z6fz4tR0u%252BqVNJE%252FQ1efLum6ABpUInffM%252FO6p3aqLnS%252F5wzYfYbP4gjuDZDsT2Mu7F%252F2IFTVF7farCYThmRMa28U6XaoOAI9UI6EXJEhh%252F0XsZxQtXBW%252FOlRP5A4tfSjfIEnZ8G2YG5%252FvfSgQY7WxadYLgVOAPw%252BeRUb93Dea%252FTXcCXjJOVCEs1yE7Bvi6nsc249rYG71Cblq9G%252BCARKs9KaKycFMJT6Ks8BMp%252FuGrAncH2U1wIvl0kx%252FkRo8ln2dEJh5VIUihbvdgXrCTsX1UZrpfRfUN0Kl8ybQBBFE60ylaC9GlpJdy2T%252B973bcQCT4tsO1HY6rQ0YMT0hhfllPh%252BJYkpegfF9bL585QosduiYNoT3ZOd97PH%252F1FewNfPIZZNYKQdVPPloISfYLIAXTFJ%252F6AtQd6WcIEg3nx79rpUCzLvQCVIEaytuSO3AvOO78QEhMmR7Lz8jPA9g42EYgLbpq7PtnGEln%252BM4IzR70Ar61LJ79C03R9Pv6fpFIzWmcJhahi3bsEZT0bo5jJa7m2NIvWJC2r%252FlqMK%252FYCd90GAd0Nbv4nQQXgN9XhBKNetVmWqn11kYzlXcB2T0xjXlaxTnvvFYtDWOuTCXASFOrWQTdoNdJONPbAJyuacs0vTVjAA9tQv1UDshFFdPt%252BBLLp0qXiMp8PlT6sdRMc59SSDxknnK2J2n26nD8dwBrcml%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
> > > > Yikes! You need TinyURL. And who says the bearings are shot?
> > > >
> > > > It is true that once you get into the freewheel and find some serious damage like a bad pawl or spring, you're basically at the end of the road unless you have a bunch of donor freewheel bodies sitting around. Most fixable problems are fixable with a flush and relube without opening the freewheel. One fixable problem that may or may not be solved with flushing is serious grease solidification gooping up the pawls -- which may be an issue with some NOS freewheel from the '70s or an unused freewheel with heavy grease injected way-back-when with one of those injectors. It sounds like Sir may have that problem -- throwing in the light oil gets it to work, but when that evaporates or migrates, the pawl gets stuck. It sounds like a pawl issue because the freewheel seizes and just doesn't get draggy. But I can be totally wrong, because I haven't opened a freewheel in 30 years, being that I live in the modern era. Anyway, this might be one of those situations where it can be opened up and fixed, and for a hobbyist, the time isn't that big of an issue.
> > > Sure Jay, sticking AFTER oiling the freewheel from both ends and then sticking again after it frees up tells you that the bearings are just like new.
> > Who knows. Periodic locking-up seems like a pawl/ratchet issue and not a bearing issues. If this is a NOS, I doubt the bearings are bad, and if the lubrication is bad, then they would just be draggy or rough. It apparently now works, so we'll never know -- and we'll never know if Sir could have gotten it back together. The nice part about freehub bodies that you don't have to wrestle with the pawls.
> Once you have oiled and freed up a ratchet assembly in a freewheel what would you suggest would cause it to freeze again?

On 8/27/2021 12:34 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:01:36 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Once you have oiled and freed up a ratchet assembly in a freewheel what would you suggest would cause it to freeze again?
>
> A number of things, including rust, congealed grease or some contaminant that is redeposited after oil recedes -- in the space between the pawl and the freewheel body or at the base of the pawl. But who knows. Freewheel bearings don't see a big load, and in what I assume is a NOS or new freewheel, I wouldn't expect there to be a ball/race that is damaged to the degree it seizes the freewheel, and if there was generalized gunk in the bearings, I would expect the whole mechanism to be draggy -- but I suppose you could get something floating around in the bearing space that causes them to seize up periodically. A lot of flushing would fix contaminants in the balls and pawls, which is apparently what happened. If there were a bad bearing(s), then Sir would still be having problems. The outcome indicates that the bearings/races were not damaged.

Mechanical weirdness happens.

This wasn't a freewheel, but I remember a ride where a friend's pedal
locked up. We stopped to inspect, the pedal spun freely, we re-started,
then it locked up again. We removed the pedal's end cap and found a ball
bearing had split cleanly in two. That was the only time I'd seen a
bearing ball split like that.

Thankfully, mechanical weirdness is more rare then electronic weirdness.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:34:50 p.m. UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:01:36 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 4:26:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 11:31:53 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:05:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
> > > > > > > > >>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
> > > > > > > > >>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
> > > > > > > > >>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
> > > > > > > > >>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
> > > > > > > > >>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
> > > > > > > > >>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
> > > > > > > > >>>> freewheel is seized again.
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
> > > > > > > > >>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
> > > > > > > > >>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
> > > > > > > > >>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
> > > > > > > > >>>> rebuild it.
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> Thanks and cheers
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
> > > > > > > > >>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it..
> > > > > > > > >>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
> > > > > > > > >>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
> > > > > > > > >>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
> > > > > > > > >>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
> > > > > > > > >>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
> > > > > > > > >>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
> > > > > > > > >>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
> > > > > > > > >>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
> > > > > > > > >>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
> > > > > > > > >> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
> > > > > > > > >> body, just trade them out.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
> > > > > > > > >> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
> > > > > > > > >> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
> > > > > > > > >> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
> > > > > > > > >> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
> > > > > > > > >> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
> > > > > > > > >> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
> > > > > > > > >> dead on Labor Day.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
> > > > > > > > >> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
> > > > > > > > >> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
> > > > > > > > >> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
> > > > > > > > >> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
> > > > > > > > >> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
> > > > > > > > >> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
> > > > > > > > >> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
> > > > > > > > >> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
> > > > > > > > >> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
> > > > > > > > >> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
> > > > > > > > > For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
> > > > > > > > > is your liability.
> > > > > > > > As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > - Frank Krygowski
> > > > > > > Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt a Shimano 7-speed freehub.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > If there is one thing that is really worthwhile it is trying to repair a freewheel which no doubt has bad bearings when you can buy a new replacement for $20. https://www.ebay.com/itm/402352487539?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5dae13bc73:g:-ZQAAOSwBLNfLDFK&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzTrfxU0PnnINOOwAXiWgrwkrCtGGmTSH%252FEorCrHAhnAwlvnrMJS2qdpx5Uff0H4WcVcX%252BQhfzGzGOl2%252FS13GqolXTqOSfIF1ht7apfSWWt2Z6fz4tR0u%252BqVNJE%252FQ1efLum6ABpUInffM%252FO6p3aqLnS%252F5wzYfYbP4gjuDZDsT2Mu7F%252F2IFTVF7farCYThmRMa28U6XaoOAI9UI6EXJEhh%252F0XsZxQtXBW%252FOlRP5A4tfSjfIEnZ8G2YG5%252FvfSgQY7WxadYLgVOAPw%252BeRUb93Dea%252FTXcCXjJOVCEs1yE7Bvi6nsc249rYG71Cblq9G%252BCARKs9KaKycFMJT6Ks8BMp%252FuGrAncH2U1wIvl0kx%252FkRo8ln2dEJh5VIUihbvdgXrCTsX1UZrpfRfUN0Kl8ybQBBFE60ylaC9GlpJdy2T%252B973bcQCT4tsO1HY6rQ0YMT0hhfllPh%252BJYkpegfF9bL585QosduiYNoT3ZOd97PH%252F1FewNfPIZZNYKQdVPPloISfYLIAXTFJ%252F6AtQd6WcIEg3nx79rpUCzLvQCVIEaytuSO3AvOO78QEhMmR7Lz8jPA9g42EYgLbpq7PtnGEln%252BM4IzR70Ar61LJ79C03R9Pv6fpFIzWmcJhahi3bsEZT0bo5jJa7m2NIvWJC2r%252FlqMK%252FYCd90GAd0Nbv4nQQXgN9XhBKNetVmWqn11kYzlXcB2T0xjXlaxTnvvFYtDWOuTCXASFOrWQTdoNdJONPbAJyuacs0vTVjAA9tQv1UDshFFdPt%252BBLLp0qXiMp8PlT6sdRMc59SSDxknnK2J2n26nD8dwBrcml%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
> > > > > Yikes! You need TinyURL. And who says the bearings are shot?
> > > > >
> > > > > It is true that once you get into the freewheel and find some serious damage like a bad pawl or spring, you're basically at the end of the road unless you have a bunch of donor freewheel bodies sitting around. Most fixable problems are fixable with a flush and relube without opening the freewheel. One fixable problem that may or may not be solved with flushing is serious grease solidification gooping up the pawls -- which may be an issue with some NOS freewheel from the '70s or an unused freewheel with heavy grease injected way-back-when with one of those injectors. It sounds like Sir may have that problem -- throwing in the light oil gets it to work, but when that evaporates or migrates, the pawl gets stuck. It sounds like a pawl issue because the freewheel seizes and just doesn't get draggy. But I can be totally wrong, because I haven't opened a freewheel in 30 years, being that I live in the modern era. Anyway, this might be one of those situations where it can be opened up and fixed, and for a hobbyist, the time isn't that big of an issue.
> > > > Sure Jay, sticking AFTER oiling the freewheel from both ends and then sticking again after it frees up tells you that the bearings are just like new.
> > > Who knows. Periodic locking-up seems like a pawl/ratchet issue and not a bearing issues. If this is a NOS, I doubt the bearings are bad, and if the lubrication is bad, then they would just be draggy or rough. It apparently now works, so we'll never know -- and we'll never know if Sir could have gotten it back together. The nice part about freehub bodies that you don't have to wrestle with the pawls.
> > Once you have oiled and freed up a ratchet assembly in a freewheel what would you suggest would cause it to freeze again?
> A number of things, including rust, congealed grease or some contaminant that is redeposited after oil recedes -- in the space between the pawl and the freewheel body or at the base of the pawl. But who knows. Freewheel bearings don't see a big load, and in what I assume is a NOS or new freewheel, I wouldn't expect there to be a ball/race that is damaged to the degree it seizes the freewheel, and if there was generalized gunk in the bearings, I would expect the whole mechanism to be draggy -- but I suppose you could get something floating around in the bearing space that causes them to seize up periodically. A lot of flushing would fix contaminants in the balls and pawls, which is apparently what happened. If there were a bad bearing(s), then Sir would still be having problems. The outcome indicates that the bearings/races were not damaged.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

Sir, I agree with Jay that the most likely cause is dried, hardened grease inside the freewheel. Often regular mineral spirits-type solvent won't dissolve this because the grease is bound too tightly to the dirt it is mixed with, and it requires a stronger solvent like acetone, lacquer thinner or naptha to do it. Having a parts washer filled with naptha can be a real godsend in cases like this. You can buy 5-gallon containers of naptha for a pretty reasonable price at Tractor Supply, and probably elsewhere. Keep it off your skin, though.

On Saturday, August 28, 2021 at 5:17:33 AM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> Sir, I agree with Jay that the most likely cause is dried, hardened grease inside the freewheel. Often regular mineral spirits-type solvent won't dissolve this because the grease is bound too tightly to the dirt it is mixed with, and it requires a stronger solvent like acetone, lacquer thinner or naptha to do it. Having a parts washer filled with naptha can be a real godsend in cases like this. You can buy 5-gallon containers of naptha for a pretty reasonable price at Tractor Supply, and probably elsewhere. Keep it off your skin, though.
I use a powerful soap in an ultrasonic cleaner, rinse well in water, dry completely in the sunlight and then heavy weight oil. My experience is that TriFlow and the like doesn't have any lubricating capabilities after a couple of hours of evaporation.

On 2021-08-28, William Crowell <retroguybilly@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sir, I agree with Jay that the most likely cause is dried, hardened grease
> inside the freewheel. Often regular mineral spirits-type solvent won't
> dissolve this because the grease is bound too tightly to the dirt it is
> mixed with, and it requires a stronger solvent like acetone, lacquer
> thinner or naptha to do it. Having a parts washer filled with naptha can
> be a real godsend in cases like this. You can buy 5-gallon containers of
> naptha for a pretty reasonable price at Tractor Supply, and probably
> elsewhere. Keep it off your skin, though.

Supposedly "Coleman fuel" is naptha....I have a *lot* of Coleman stoves and
lanterns....what do you consider to be a "reasonable" price?

I would love to get my fuel at decent prices. Long gone is the time my Dad
sent me down to the local gas station which filled my can with a gallon of
"white gas" for 25 cents which I dutifully biked home.

pH in Aptos

Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 12:34:50 p.m. UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 9:01:36 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 4:26:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 2:41:16 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 11:31:53 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:05:05 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:06:16 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 2:58:09 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2021 12:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2021 11:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2021 9:53 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2021 7:18 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a 6-speed Suntour Perfect freewheel I want to use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not on a bicycle yet because...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When let sitting the freewheel seizes up solid. However,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if I run oil along the very slight gap on t he front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the freewheel between the cogs holder and the body and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then do t he same to the rear, I can get the freewheel to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spin quite freely. BUT... if I leave the freewheel
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting on the table overnight, the next day the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> freewheel is seized again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas as to what's causing this weird behaviour?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, does the lockring (with the two round recesses)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that holds everything together turn counterclockwise to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> loosen? I want to open up this freewheel and take a peak
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inside to see if I can figure out the problem and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuild it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks and cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Most probably just full of crud in which case the cure is
>>>>>>>>>>>> to spin it in your fingers while running oil through it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Usually the oil comes out with crud; continue until it
>>>>>>>>>>>> runs clear. Leave on a towel overnight. This would be the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ideal problem as it has a simple solution.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It may be rusted inside and the rust flakes/shards can be
>>>>>>>>>>>> large enough to not fall through the back. Possibly
>>>>>>>>>>>> (rarely) a cracked pawl[1] or spring[1]. At which point I
>>>>>>>>>>>> suggest a freewheel, the new IRD being only $59.95.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You may or may not heed this advice, but don't open your
>>>>>>>>>>>> freewheel body. Even dead people know this:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://sheldonbrown.com/rebuild-freewheel.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's tedious at best, success rates are low and at home
>>>>>>>>>>>> with insufficient tooling add frustration to tedium.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I admit it's tedious, but I have done it successfully, many
>>>>>>>>>>> years ago. But I agree, if you've got a spare freewheel
>>>>>>>>>>> body, just trade them out.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My most unusual freewheel repair happened about 1987. With
>>>>>>>>>>> my brand new touring bike, I did a four day tour across Ohio
>>>>>>>>>>> with a friend, west to east, starting Labor Day.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A few hours after our start, the friend who was riding with
>>>>>>>>>>> me called out from behind "Something is wrong!" His SunTour
>>>>>>>>>>> freewheel had come apart. (IIRC, one of the four threaded
>>>>>>>>>>> prongs that received the outside cone had cracked.) That
>>>>>>>>>>> part of western Ohio is empty at all times, and completely
>>>>>>>>>>> dead on Labor Day.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We were gathering as many of the 1/8" balls as we could find
>>>>>>>>>>> when a homeowner living along the rural road asked if we
>>>>>>>>>>> were OK. He soon volunteered his garage workshop.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We could put things back together, but we were short maybe
>>>>>>>>>>> 100 little balls. But the homeowner gave me a length of
>>>>>>>>>>> electrical wire whose insulation outer diameter was close
>>>>>>>>>>> enough to 1/8". We greased that up and used it on the inside
>>>>>>>>>>> race. We put balls in the outside race, and IIRC used
>>>>>>>>>>> Loctite to keep the cone in place.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It all worked well enough as long as my friend didn't try
>>>>>>>>>>> coasting. So he pedaled a multi-speed fixed gear for over 50
>>>>>>>>>>> miles farther that day, to our stop in a town with a bike
>>>>>>>>>>> shop. Next day they sold him a freewheel.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What would you charge at shop rate to do another one?
>>>>>>>>>> For extra points, note that any related or unrelated subsequent failure
>>>>>>>>>> is your liability.
>>>>>>>>> As I said: I agree, just trade them out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> Rebuilding a freewheel is a lot different for a shop because of
>>>>>>>> labour costs and liability concerns. My buddy who is not a bicycle
>>>>>>>> mechanic or overly bicycle savvy recently disassembled and rebuilt
>>>>>>>> a Shimano 7-speed freehub.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> If there is one thing that is really worthwhile it is trying to
>>>>>>> repair a freewheel which no doubt has bad bearings when you can buy
>>>>>>> a new replacement for $20.
>>>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/402352487539?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5dae13bc73:g:-ZQAAOSwBLNfLDFK&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzTrfxU0PnnINOOwAXiWgrwkrCtGGmTSH%252FEorCrHAhnAwlvnrMJS2qdpx5Uff0H4WcVcX%252BQhfzGzGOl2%252FS13GqolXTqOSfIF1ht7apfSWWt2Z6fz4tR0u%252BqVNJE%252FQ1efLum6ABpUInffM%252FO6p3aqLnS%252F5wzYfYbP4gjuDZDsT2Mu7F%252F2IFTVF7farCYThmRMa28U6XaoOAI9UI6EXJEhh%252F0XsZxQtXBW%252FOlRP5A4tfSjfIEnZ8G2YG5%252FvfSgQY7WxadYLgVOAPw%252BeRUb93Dea%252FTXcCXjJOVCEs1yE7Bvi6nsc249rYG71Cblq9G%252BCARKs9KaKycFMJT6Ks8BMp%252FuGrAncH2U1wIvl0kx%252FkRo8ln2dEJh5VIUihbvdgXrCTsX1UZrpfRfUN0Kl8ybQBBFE60ylaC9GlpJdy2T%252B973bcQCT4tsO1HY6rQ0YMT0hhfllPh%252BJYkpegfF9bL585QosduiYNoT3ZOd97PH%252F1FewNfPIZZNYKQdVPPloISfYLIAXTFJ%252F6AtQd6WcIEg3nx79rpUCzLvQCVIEaytuSO3AvOO78QEhMmR7Lz8jPA9g42EYgLbpq7PtnGEln%252BM4IzR70Ar61LJ79C03R9Pv6fpFIzWmcJhahi3bsEZT0bo5jJa7m2NIvWJC2r%252FlqMK%252FYCd90GAd0Nbv4nQQXgN9XhBKNetVmWqn11kYzlXcB2T0xjXlaxTnvvFYtDWOuTCXASFOrWQTdoNdJONPbAJyuacs0vTVjAA9tQv1UDshFFdPt%252BBLLp0qXiMp8PlT6sdRMc59SSDxknnK2J2n26nD8dwBrcml%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yikes! You need TinyURL. And who says the bearings are shot?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is true that once you get into the freewheel and find some
>>>>>> serious damage like a bad pawl or spring, you're basically at the
>>>>>> end of the road unless you have a bunch of donor freewheel bodies
>>>>>> sitting around. Most fixable problems are fixable with a flush and
>>>>>> relube without opening the freewheel. One fixable problem that may
>>>>>> or may not be solved with flushing is serious grease solidification
>>>>>> gooping up the pawls -- which may be an issue with some NOS
>>>>>> freewheel from the '70s or an unused freewheel with heavy grease injected
>>>>>> way-back-when with one of those injectors. It sounds like Sir may
>>>>>> have that problem -- throwing in the light oil gets it to work, but
>>>>>> when that evaporates or migrates, the pawl gets stuck. It sounds
>>>>>> like a pawl issue because the freewheel seizes and just doesn't get
>>>>>> draggy. But I can be totally wrong, because I haven't opened a
>>>>>> freewheel in 30 years, being that I live in the modern era. Anyway,
>>>>>> this might be one of those situations where it can be opened up and
>>>>>> fixed, and for a hobbyist, the time isn't that big of an issue.
>>>>> Sure Jay, sticking AFTER oiling the freewheel from both ends and then
>>>>> sticking again after it frees up tells you that the bearings are just like new.
>>>> Who knows. Periodic locking-up seems like a pawl/ratchet issue and not
>>>> a bearing issues. If this is a NOS, I doubt the bearings are bad, and
>>>> if the lubrication is bad, then they would just be draggy or rough. It
>>>> apparently now works, so we'll never know -- and we'll never know if
>>>> Sir could have gotten it back together. The nice part about freehub
>>>> bodies that you don't have to wrestle with the pawls.
>>> Once you have oiled and freed up a ratchet assembly in a freewheel what
>>> would you suggest would cause it to freeze again?
>> A number of things, including rust, congealed grease or some contaminant
>> that is redeposited after oil recedes -- in the space between the pawl
>> and the freewheel body or at the base of the pawl. But who knows.
>> Freewheel bearings don't see a big load, and in what I assume is a NOS
>> or new freewheel, I wouldn't expect there to be a ball/race that is
>> damaged to the degree it seizes the freewheel, and if there was
>> generalized gunk in the bearings, I would expect the whole mechanism to
>> be draggy -- but I suppose you could get something floating around in
>> the bearing space that causes them to seize up periodically. A lot of
>> flushing would fix contaminants in the balls and pawls, which is
>> apparently what happened. If there were a bad bearing(s), then Sir would
>> still be having problems. The outcome indicates that the bearings/races were not damaged.
>>
>> -- Jay Beattie.
>
> I checked the freewheel again an hour ago and it's still working like it
> should. I guess the flushing with WD-40 worked. I'm going to put some
> light non detergent oil into the freewheel via the front and rear where
> the body meets the cogs holder. Looks like I don't have to disassemble it
> after or nor loosen the lockring.
>
> Loosening the lockring a couple of turns would allow more crud (if and &
> larger) to escape during flushing.
>
> Cheers
>
With the BMX freewheels on the single speed used to have the problem in
that being fairly cheap simple things and this being uk, water would get
in, and then freeze in winter so it wouldn’t reliably engage again WD40
often came to the rescue!

I don't think Coleman fuel is anything like naptha. Coleman fuel seems to be akin to what we used to call "white gas" (very low octane gasoline, like that used in '20s and '30s cars which had only a 5-or-6-to-1 compression ratio). Naptha is the solvent they used to dry clean clothes until the '50s, when the government found that industrial exposure to naptha was carcinogenic, so they switched to percholoroethylene (sp?) instead, which turned out to be even more carcinogenic, but I digress. The 5-gallon containers of naptha that I've bought are nothing like Coleman fuel. They are manufactured by Packaging Service Co., Inc. and are sold under the brand name of "Crown PSC 1000 Parts Cleaner". $45 for 5 gallons. That is pretty reasonable compared to other parts cleaning solvents. Tractor Supply:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/crown-psc-1000-parts-cleaner-5-gal-3893915?cm_mmc=feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-3893915&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpreJBhDvARIsAF1_BU0CNDOApErIsidCl_KjNSOZjvQ5uJnTu5aQfPZih-VWSjZk1BqT0GgaAv8jEALw_wcB

Often Tractor Supply doesn't stock this item in their stores, so you have to order it on their website and have it shipped to your local store.

On 8/31/2021 2:01 PM, William Crowell wrote:
> I don't think Coleman fuel is anything like naptha. Coleman fuel seems to be akin to what we used to call "white gas" (very low octane gasoline, like that used in '20s and '30s cars which had only a 5-or-6-to-1 compression ratio). Naptha is the solvent they used to dry clean clothes until the '50s, when the government found that industrial exposure to naptha was carcinogenic, so they switched to percholoroethylene (sp?) instead, which turned out to be even more carcinogenic, but I digress. The 5-gallon containers of naptha that I've bought are nothing like Coleman fuel. They are manufactured by Packaging Service Co., Inc. and are sold under the brand name of "Crown PSC 1000 Parts Cleaner". $45 for 5 gallons. That is pretty reasonable compared to other parts cleaning solvents. Tractor Supply:
>
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/crown-psc-1000-parts-cleaner-5-gal-3893915?cm_mmc=feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-3893915&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpreJBhDvARIsAF1_BU0CNDOApErIsidCl_KjNSOZjvQ5uJnTu5aQfPZih-VWSjZk1BqT0GgaAv8jEALw_wcB
>
>
> Often Tractor Supply doesn't stock this item in their stores, so you have to order it on their website and have it shipped to your local store.
>

with some terminology and semantic caveats, it does contain
naptha. Coleman fuel is not gasoline at any rate:
https://mbsportscamps.com/what-is-coleman-fuel/

"Coleman fuel is also commonly referred to as "the white
gas". It is a naphtha-based fuel that is often used in
lanterns, stoves and it's also popular among fire dancers.
This gas is 100% light hydrotreated distillate. "

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 1:01:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/31/2021 2:01 PM, William Crowell wrote:
> > I don't think Coleman fuel is anything like naptha. Coleman fuel seems to be akin to what we used to call "white gas" (very low octane gasoline, like that used in '20s and '30s cars which had only a 5-or-6-to-1 compression ratio). Naptha is the solvent they used to dry clean clothes until the '50s, when the government found that industrial exposure to naptha was carcinogenic, so they switched to percholoroethylene (sp?) instead, which turned out to be even more carcinogenic, but I digress. The 5-gallon containers of naptha that I've bought are nothing like Coleman fuel. They are manufactured by Packaging Service Co., Inc. and are sold under the brand name of "Crown PSC 1000 Parts Cleaner". $45 for 5 gallons. That is pretty reasonable compared to other parts cleaning solvents. Tractor Supply:
> >
> > https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/crown-psc-1000-parts-cleaner-5-gal-3893915?cm_mmc=feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-3893915&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpreJBhDvARIsAF1_BU0CNDOApErIsidCl_KjNSOZjvQ5uJnTu5aQfPZih-VWSjZk1BqT0GgaAv8jEALw_wcB
> >
> >
> > Often Tractor Supply doesn't stock this item in their stores, so you have to order it on their website and have it shipped to your local store.
> >
> with some terminology and semantic caveats, it does contain
> naptha. Coleman fuel is not gasoline at any rate:
> https://mbsportscamps.com/what-is-coleman-fuel/
>
>
> "Coleman fuel is also commonly referred to as "the white
> gas". It is a naphtha-based fuel that is often used in
> lanterns, stoves and it's also popular among fire dancers.
> This gas is 100% light hydrotreated distillate. "

Coleman fuel is just what they say it is - Kerosene. That is why the lantern has a wick. It's the only way to get Kerosene to evaporate to a flammable gas rapidly enough. Once the heat is high enough the wick has no effect. I don't remember about their stoves but the kerosene stoves I used on sailboats required preheating with alcohol in order to operate. Since I have a Coleman stove in the garage you'd think I would remember how they operate. But for that matter I still have a boat kerosene stove. And a camping tent that we used for bike camping. etc. etc. etc. And I wouldn't think of bicycle touring any more. Being very far from my supply of medication is not something I would look forward to. The micro-seizures I get the way it is, aren't fun.