On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:00:16 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/26/2021 5:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:23:07 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Your iPhone also has an installed app that monitors your every move down
> >>> to your location. No thanks. I can turn the GPS position off on my phone.
> >>>
> >> I assume you mean Google maps and similar? You can turn these off quite
> >> easily if one wishes.
> >>
> >> Which in Apple is location services.
> >
> > iPhone has a permanent tracker built into it supposedly so that you can find it id you lose it or it is stolen.
> Are there really people who worry about their phone tracking their
> location, but who are using Garmin and Strava?

Who is surprised that you don't even understand what is being discussed?

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:09:28 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 14:48:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >iPhone has a permanent tracker built into it supposedly so that you can find it id you lose it or it is stolen.
> Mostly wrong.
> You can turn off GPS tracking (except for 911 emergency calls). You
> cannot turn off cellular CSLI location tracking:
> <https://www.eff.org/files/2019/03/28/csli_one-pager.pdf>
> Even if you disable GPS and cellular, you can be located and tracked
> using Wi-Fi.
> <https://www.howtogeek.com/708500/how-devices-use-wi-fi-to-determine-your-physical-location/>
> You can also be located by pinging your phone from various known
> locations, recording the delays, and using geolocation to produce a
> tolerable guess as to where you're hiding.

While you CAN turn off GPS positioning it is complicated and many apps automatically turn it back on, perhaps without your knowledge by asking if you are allowing their app to look at "information".

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:23:21 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 8/27/2021 2:09 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 3:09:19 AM UTC+2, sms wrote:
>>> On 8/26/2021 3:54 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:52:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/25/2021 8:23 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/25/2021 7:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/25/2021 7:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:00:50 PM UTC-7, Frank
>>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2021 12:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The on-line manual for the Edge 810 is not helpful. You
>>>>>>>>>> can discover a whole lot more by simply going through
>>>>>>>>>> the menus.
>>>>>>>>> And I count that as a failure by the manual writer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO, a well-structured explanation should always beat
>>>>>>>>> trial and error
>>>>>>>>> bumbling through menus.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The menu's are obvious, the manuals aren't. There wasn't
>>>>>>>> any place I would find that said that if certain sensors
>>>>>>>> were missing that those windows wouldn't open correctly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I asked you before if you had a 5G phone. If so what
>>>>>>>> manual did you read so that you were completely familiar
>>>>>>>> with it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My phone doesn't support 5G, but I don't see how that's
>>>>>>> relevant. It has an online PDF manual. I downloaded it,
>>>>>>> saved it and read it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow I'm impressed. You read it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "This user license gives us rights but none to you. The next 237 pages
>>>>>> describe some but not all of the various ways we may, and likely will,
>>>>>> screw you either now or later at a time and in a manner we may choose.
>>>>>> Viewing this page, however briefly, constitutes your acceptance of our
>>>>>> terms. Click here to download this document in Urdo or Estonian."
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read all my cars' owners manuals too. I read them pencil in hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Granted, "read" means turning past dozens and dozens of pages and
>>>>> paragraphs, including the countless warnings. And I certainly don't try
>>>>> to memorize anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> But one tiny example of benefit: This car came with an Oil Change
>>>>> Monitoring system that notified when an oil change was needed, based on
>>>>> driving conditions. However, it was turned off by default, and it
>>>>> required a visit to the dealer to have them hook to a computer to enable
>>>>> it. They said I was the first customer to request that; and it took them
>>>>> 45 minutes to figure out how to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our car is used 95% for freeway miles. I go over 12000 miles between oil
>>>>> changes, as opposed to something like 6000 if I were on the manual's
>>>>> fixed schedule.
>>>>
>>>> Our car dealer calls us on the phone to tell us that we are scheduled
>>>> for an oil change :-)
>>> On our vehicles the vehicle displays "Service Required Soon," about 1000
>>> miles before the mileage when service is required. Then I change the oil.
>>>
>>> It's faster to change it myself then to make an appointment at the
>>> dealer, drive there, wait around, and drive back (though they do provide
>>> free donuts, or used to).
>>>
>>> It costs me about $20 for the synthetic oil, OEM filter, and drain plug
>>> gasket (less for the older vehicle that can't use synthetic). Lately the
>>> dealer has been sending out coupons for $8.88 synthetic oil changes but
>>> I haven't used one yet. When you try to use one of those coupons they
>>> invariably try to sell you a bunch of other needless services like the
>>> Bilstein Wallet Flush, or changing the air in your tires.
>>
>> How do you discard the old oil? That is a problem here.
>
>My situation is like Scharf's. The dealer sends coupons for discounts on
>oil changes, at what they guess is 6000 mile intervals. I used only the
>first: a completely free oil change, at which I asked them to activate
>the Oil Change Monitoring system, or whatever it's called. I've ignored
>every notice since.
>
>I've always changed my own oil because it takes less time than
>scheduling, driving to and from, and waiting for others to do it; and I
>prefer to keep watch on my car's mechanical systems. Also, my mechanical
>work gave me some "street cred" with my students.
>
>But I'm beginning to change my mind. I guess the "quick change" places
>are faster, I no longer have motorhead students, the process is now more
>complicated because of a lower car with more shielding to remove. And I
>am getting older. When I last changed it about a month ago I thought
>"This is not fun."
>
>As to old oil: Around here, shops that change oil are required to accept
>it for proper recycling. I collect it in spare jugs and periodically
>drop several jugs off at such a shop.

Here oil changes are combined with other services and checks by the
dealer are part of the routine "service" that is (I believe) part of
the guarantee system and I suppose I could change the oil myself, why
bother?

As for waiting, etc., since I'm a great guy and have always treated my
wife so well I've bought her a new car every few years so she takes
HER car for service while I sit home and play with the computer :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:00:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 8/26/2021 5:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:23:07 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Your iPhone also has an installed app that monitors your every move down
>>>> to your location. No thanks. I can turn the GPS position off on my phone.
>>>>
>>> I assume you mean Google maps and similar? You can turn these off quite
>>> easily if one wishes.
>>>
>>> Which in Apple is location services.
>>
>> iPhone has a permanent tracker built into it supposedly so that you can find it id you lose it or it is stolen.
>
>Are there really people who worry about their phone tracking their
>location, but who are using Garmin and Strava?

Tracking is a common subject in "phone groups" and I've always
wondered "Why worry about someone knowing where you are at this
moment"?

O.K. if you are robbing stores, stealing cars or "having it off" with
the neighbor lady, I can see a reason, but for Joe Everyone?

And, of course, the phone system must know where you are in reference
to the various "sectors" covered or you couldn't receive a call.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 15:24:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Like the signs that have appeared below stop signs in recent years:
> "Warning: Cross traffic does not stop." Is that sign really necessary?

I've seen them only where they *are* necessary - such as an
intersection near my house, where the road was frequently blocked by
ambulances before they added emphasis.

(During that time, I thought that they should put up a scoreboard,
with crashed-vehicle and hospital-bed icons.)

At another, the added sign says "Traffic from the right and left does
not stop." This is close to an intersection where traffic from the
right stops and traffic from the left doesn't.

And I haven't seen three-way stop signs at all-way stops lately. I
hope that isn't just because I don't get around much.

I'm pretty sure that the three-way sign that didn't mark an all-way
stop was replaced with one that said "incoming traffic does not stop".

But the city council is increasingly enthusiastic about placing
straight-through lanes to the right of right-turn lanes.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 08:57:45 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:09:28 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 14:48:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >iPhone has a permanent tracker built into it supposedly so that you can find it id you lose it or it is stolen.
>> Mostly wrong.
>> You can turn off GPS tracking (except for 911 emergency calls). You
>> cannot turn off cellular CSLI location tracking:
>> <https://www.eff.org/files/2019/03/28/csli_one-pager.pdf>
>> Even if you disable GPS and cellular, you can be located and tracked
>> using Wi-Fi.
>> <https://www.howtogeek.com/708500/how-devices-use-wi-fi-to-determine-your-physical-location/>
>> You can also be located by pinging your phone from various known
>> locations, recording the delays, and using geolocation to produce a
>> tolerable guess as to where you're hiding.

>While you CAN turn off GPS positioning it is complicated and many apps automatically turn it back on, perhaps without your knowledge by asking if you are allowing their app to look at "information".

Yep. It's really horribly complicated, especially if you don't read
the instructions. Fortunately, for such a complicated 2.5 minute
procedure, there are videos that will read the instructions to you.

"How to Disable Location Tracking on iPhone - iOS 13 Turn Off Location
Sharing"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYoWOqJBxHY>

If you find an app that turns the GPS on WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION, I
would be interested. Apple used to give a bounty for identifying such
mishaving applications. To see the applications which you have given
permission to share your location, see:
Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services
Go through the list of apps that want to know where you're hiding and
set the apps permission appropriately.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:35:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 8/27/2021 11:09 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 14:48:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> iPhone has a permanent tracker built into it supposedly so that you can find it id you lose it or it is stolen.
>>
>> Mostly wrong.
>> You can turn off GPS tracking (except for 911 emergency calls). You
>> cannot turn off cellular CSLI location tracking:
>> <https://www.eff.org/files/2019/03/28/csli_one-pager.pdf>
>> Even if you disable GPS and cellular, you can be located and tracked
>> using Wi-Fi.
>> <https://www.howtogeek.com/708500/how-devices-use-wi-fi-to-determine-your-physical-location/>
>> You can also be located by pinging your phone from various known
>> locations, recording the delays, and using geolocation to produce a
>> tolerable guess as to where you're hiding.

>So you put your phone into a Faraday pouch.
>https://www.wired.com/story/silent-pocket-signal-blocking-smartphone-pouch/

The mesh version leaks badly at UHF frequencies. The foil versions
work better. However, these have a problem. If you loose contact
with the MSC (mobile switching center), your phone will immediately
become lonely and try to continuously contact any MSC at full transmit
power. That's a guaranteed way to run your smartphone battery down.

Try it. Charge your phone battery. Wrap the phone in aluminum foil
and wait about 2-3 hrs. Unwrap the phone and you'll find a discharged
battery.

> It goes well with a tin foil hat.

Tin foil hats also don't work. There are only two things you can do
with RF radiation. You can reflect it, or you can absorb it.
Reflecting RF does not destroy the RF. It simply re-directs it
somewhere else, where it will continue doing whatever RF does in its
spare time. Worst case is that it concentrates the RF (as in a dish
reflector) and burns a hole in your brain.

Absorption converts the RF into heat. That's what the carbon anechoic
cones do in an RF test chamber. If you really want protection from
the evil RF rays emitted by your cell phone, wrap it in carbon foam
(used to eliminate static electricity in shipping bags used for
sensitive electronic components). When made from activated charcoal,
they also work as an air filter:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=carbon+foam&tbm=isch>
If you want RF to go away, absorb it. Don't reflect it.

>Someone should develop one for a Garmin! :-)

Yep. Carbon fiber should work:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=transparent+carbon+fiber&tbm=isch>
However, I can't tell if these products are made from genuine carbon
fiber, or simply textured to look like they were made from woven
carbon fiber. My guess(tm) is mostly textured fake carbon fiber.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 8/27/2021 10:41 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 15:24:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Like the signs that have appeared below stop signs in recent years:
>> "Warning: Cross traffic does not stop." Is that sign really necessary?
>
> I've seen them only where they *are* necessary - such as an
> intersection near my house, where the road was frequently blocked by
> ambulances before they added emphasis.

I assume that one became necessary because a certain proportion of
drivers decided it wasn't necessary to stop until the way was clear. You
know, as the "STOP" sign instructed.

Will the "Cross traffic does not stop" sign someday be followed by a
sign saying "Honest! We really mean it!" ?

--
- Frank Krygowski