Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?

Why, you should, if you voted for him.

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech

I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.

Andre Jute
--(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States

On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
>
> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
>
> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
>
> Andre Jute
> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
>

Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
consequences."

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/

Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.”

The consequences have only just begun.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
>> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
>>
>> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
>>
>> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
>>
>> Andre Jute
>> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
>>
>
>Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
>consequences."
>
>https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
>
>Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
>want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
>or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.”
>
>The consequences have only just begun.

That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?

I guess that she missed the part about
“From the Halls of Montezuma
To the shores of Tripoli;
We fight our country’s battles"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> >> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
> >>
> >> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
> >>
> >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
> >>
> >> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
> >>
> >> Andre Jute
> >> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
> >>
> >
> >Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
> >consequences."
> >
> >https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
> >
> >Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
> >want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
> >or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.”
> >
> >The consequences have only just begun.
> That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
> Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
>
> I guess that she missed the part about
> “From the Halls of Montezuma
> To the shores of Tripoli;
> We fight our country’s battles"

Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.

Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.

Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?

If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 9:36:06 p.m. UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> > >On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
> > >>
> > >> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
> > >>
> > >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
> > >>
> > >> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
> > >>
> > >> Andre Jute
> > >> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
> > >>
> > >
> > >Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
> > >consequences."
> > >
> > >https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
> > >
> > >Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
> > >want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
> > >or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.”
> > >
> > >The consequences have only just begun.
> > That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
> > Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
> >
> > I guess that she missed the part about
> > “From the Halls of Montezuma
> > To the shores of Tripoli;
> > We fight our country’s battles"
> Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
>
> Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
>
> Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
>
> If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

There are many great reasons as to why Afghanistan is referred to in History as: "The graveyard of nations".

Was this Afghanistan thing done to feed the USA Industrial Military Complex that Roosevelt warned about?

IMHO, I don't think that governments or corporations are all that concerned about individuals or even small groups of people. What they ARE concerned about is gaining and keeping POWER and MONEY.

Cheers

On 8/30/2021 8:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
>>>>
>>>> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
>>>>
>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
>>>>
>>>> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
>>>>
>>>> Andre Jute
>>>> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
>>>>
>>>
>>> Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
>>> consequences."
>>>
>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
>>>
>>> Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
>>> want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
>>> or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.”
>>>
>>> The consequences have only just begun.
>> That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
>> Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
>>
>> I guess that she missed the part about
>> “From the Halls of Montezuma
>> To the shores of Tripoli;
>> We fight our country’s battles"
>
> Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
>
> Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
>
> Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
>
> If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>
>

Washington paid ransom as did Adams. Jefferson refused and
sent Decatur & Easton instead, to great effect, as noted by
Mr Slocumb above.

There is disaster and then there are command/strategic
errors. Mr Gorbachev made an orderly four year withdrawal
leaving a commie satrap regime which lasted several years.
No one can say there was no precedent because there is.

You have to go back to Corregidor/Bataan to get near this
sort of command failure. We haven't seen hostages. Yet.

Afghan regulars were not getting their pay and since June
not even resupply of 'beans bullets & bandaids' as the
Afghan regime or civil service (or probably both) were
diverting our payments from soldiers in the field. Those
among us who have followed Long War Journal every week for
twenty years saw this happening but it was news to Foggy
Bottom and the Pentagon (!). Or so we're told.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/30/2021 8:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>>> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
> >>>>
> >>>> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
> >>>>
> >>>> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
> >>>>
> >>>> Andre Jute
> >>>> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
> >>> consequences."
> >>>
> >>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
> >>>
> >>> Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
> >>> want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
> >>> or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.â€
> >>>
> >>> The consequences have only just begun.
> >> That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
> >> Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
> >>
> >> I guess that she missed the part about
> >> “From the Halls of Montezuma
> >> To the shores of Tripoli;
> >> We fight our country’s battles"
> >
> > Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
> >
> > Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
> >
> > Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
> >
> > If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> >
> >
> Washington paid ransom as did Adams. Jefferson refused and
> sent Decatur & Easton instead, to great effect, as noted by
> Mr Slocumb above.
>
Washington and Adams paid a tribute. Jefferson paid a ransom, which was an important point for him. That was how the First Barbary War concluded -- shores of Tripoli and then paid a ransom for prisoners.

> There is disaster and then there are command/strategic
> errors. Mr Gorbachev made an orderly four year withdrawal
> leaving a commie satrap regime which lasted several years.
> No one can say there was no precedent because there is.
>
> You have to go back to Corregidor/Bataan to get near this
> sort of command failure. We haven't seen hostages. Yet.

Right. Thirteen marines blown up by a terrorist bomber compared to hundreds of soldiers killed, thousands taken prison in Corregidor/Bataan. Nazis!

>
> Afghan regulars were not getting their pay and since June
> not even resupply of 'beans bullets & bandaids' as the
> Afghan regime or civil service (or probably both) were
> diverting our payments from soldiers in the field. Those
> among us who have followed Long War Journal every week for
> twenty years saw this happening but it was news to Foggy
> Bottom and the Pentagon (!). Or so we're told.

It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had created no sustainable government. We should have bombed Tora Bora and split.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:36:03 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
<jbeattie57@msn.com> wrote:

>On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
>> >> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
>> >>
>> >> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
>> >>
>> >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
>> >>
>> >> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
>> >>
>> >> Andre Jute
>> >> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
>> >>
>> >
>> >Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
>> >consequences."
>> >
>> >https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
>> >
>> >Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
>> >want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
>> >or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.”
>> >
>> >The consequences have only just begun.
>> That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
>> Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
>>
>> I guess that she missed the part about
>> “From the Halls of Montezuma
>> To the shores of Tripoli;
>> We fight our country’s battles"
>
>Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
>
>Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
>
>Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
>
>If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
>
>-- Jay Beattie.
>
Win the war? In Afghanistan? The British, Russians, etc.? Surely you
jest (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:05:48 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
<i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 9:36:06 p.m. UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
>> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> > On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > >On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
>> > >> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
>> > >>
>> > >> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
>> > >>
>> > >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
>> > >>
>> > >> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
>> > >>
>> > >> Andre Jute
>> > >> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
>> > >consequences."
>> > >
>> > >https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
>> > >
>> > >Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
>> > >want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
>> > >or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.”
>> > >
>> > >The consequences have only just begun.
>> > That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
>> > Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
>> >
>> > I guess that she missed the part about
>> > “From the Halls of Montezuma
>> > To the shores of Tripoli;
>> > We fight our country’s battles"
>> Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
>>
>> Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
>>
>> Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
>>
>> If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
>>
>> -- Jay Beattie.
>
>There are many great reasons as to why Afghanistan is referred to in History as: "The graveyard of nations".
>
>Was this Afghanistan thing done to feed the USA Industrial Military Complex that Roosevelt warned about?
>
>IMHO, I don't think that governments or corporations are all that concerned about individuals or even small groups of people. What they ARE concerned about is gaining and keeping POWER and MONEY.
>
>Cheers

Actually it was Eisenhower who warned of a Military-Industrial
Complex.

But more interesting, a very large portion of the military budget
flows back into the U.S. economy. Example, during the period of
October 1, 2020, through September 30, 202 the Air Force spent $11
billion for 79 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters and $739 million for five
presidential helicopters. So where did the money go? It didn't just go
up in smoke it was paid to companies who manufactured the aircraft and
their component parts. Yes, I know, Big Business. But Big Business
employs how many people, supports how many small contractors, pays how
much in taxes and rent? Anyone who is old enough to remember when
Boeing, Seattle shut down and laid off some 50,000 employees over a
two year in 1970-71 period has some idea of just how important the
Defense Budget is to the U.S. Economy.
--
Cheers,

John B.

I really thought Trump was going to win the election because everyone would realize how bad Biden's mental debility is, but people either didn't seem to notice it or didn't care. I still fail to understand why they couldn't see it.

On 8/30/2021 10:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 8/30/2021 8:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>>> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
>>>>> consequences."
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
>>>>>
>>>>> Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
>>>>> want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
>>>>> or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.â€
>>>>>
>>>>> The consequences have only just begun.
>>>> That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
>>>> Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
>>>>
>>>> I guess that she missed the part about
>>>> “From the Halls of Montezuma
>>>> To the shores of Tripoli;
>>>> We fight our country’s battles"
>>>
>>> Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
>>>
>>> Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
>>>
>>> Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
>>>
>>> If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
>>>
>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>>
>>>
>> Washington paid ransom as did Adams. Jefferson refused and
>> sent Decatur & Easton instead, to great effect, as noted by
>> Mr Slocumb above.
>>
> Washington and Adams paid a tribute. Jefferson paid a ransom, which was an important point for him. That was how the First Barbary War concluded -- shores of Tripoli and then paid a ransom for prisoners.
>
>> There is disaster and then there are command/strategic
>> errors. Mr Gorbachev made an orderly four year withdrawal
>> leaving a commie satrap regime which lasted several years.
>> No one can say there was no precedent because there is.
>>
>> You have to go back to Corregidor/Bataan to get near this
>> sort of command failure. We haven't seen hostages. Yet.
>
> Right. Thirteen marines blown up by a terrorist bomber compared to hundreds of soldiers killed, thousands taken prison in Corregidor/Bataan. Nazis!
>
>>
>> Afghan regulars were not getting their pay and since June
>> not even resupply of 'beans bullets & bandaids' as the
>> Afghan regime or civil service (or probably both) were
>> diverting our payments from soldiers in the field. Those
>> among us who have followed Long War Journal every week for
>> twenty years saw this happening but it was news to Foggy
>> Bottom and the Pentagon (!). Or so we're told.
>
> It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had created no sustainable government. We should have bombed Tora Bora and split.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>

On that last point I heartily agree.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/31/2021 7:20 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> I really thought Trump was going to win the election because everyone would realize how bad Biden's mental debility is, but people either didn't seem to notice it or didn't care. I still fail to understand why they couldn't see it.
>
Or wondered, 'How bad could it be?'.
This s**tshow has just begun.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/30/2021 11:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>
> It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had created no sustainable government. We should have bombed Tora Bora and split.

I'm amazed that the hundreds of amateur experts in foreign policy and
military matters waited until just weeks ago to dispense their wisdom.
They said so little about Afghanistan during the past several
presidential administrations!

In fact, where were the protests when the GOP was still praising the
"peace agreement" and pullout?
(see "GOP Takes Down 2020 Page..." at
https://theweek.com/news/1004350/the-afghanistan-war-was-the-least-reported-war-since-at-least-wwi
)

All these "experts" must have known when we were going to pull out.
Where were the brilliant posts telling exactly how our pullout should be
arranged?

Related: Why are so many amateur quarterbacks at their very best on the
Monday after the game?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 8/31/2021 10:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/30/2021 11:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>
>> It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with
>> American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The
>> simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a
>> concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had
>> created no sustainable government. We should have bombed
>> Tora Bora and split.
>
>
> I'm amazed that the hundreds of amateur experts in foreign
> policy and military matters waited until just weeks ago to
> dispense their wisdom. They said so little about Afghanistan
> during the past several presidential administrations!
>
> In fact, where were the protests when the GOP was still
> praising the "peace agreement" and pullout?
> (see "GOP Takes Down 2020 Page..." at
> https://theweek.com/news/1004350/the-afghanistan-war-was-the-least-reported-war-since-at-least-wwi
> )
>
> All these "experts" must have known when we were going to
> pull out. Where were the brilliant posts telling exactly how
> our pullout should be arranged?
>
> Related: Why are so many amateur quarterbacks at their very
> best on the Monday after the game?
>

Many people, including me, criticized Mr Bush, Mr Obama and
Mr Trump in turn. (the preset situation is almost beyond
words and is yet active[1]) I think there may be an RBT post
early on in which I asked for a definition of victory and a
plan to get there. Such was never forthcoming in all these
years, down to this morning.

My turning point was reading the account of a Navy Seal at
Tora Bora who wrote that his commander asked for more
soldiers & air support to block the exodus to Pakistan. He
blames Rumsfeld for denying the request.

I'm sympathetic to, even admiring of, Rumsfeld's push for
lighter faster cheaper but as with any habit there are
exigencies which need a different solution urgently.

[1] Radio news endlessly repeats 'end of a twenty year war'.
pffft. As in all things, the enemy gets a vote and it's not
nearly over to them. Just beginning, in fact.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 9:00:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/31/2021 10:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/30/2021 11:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>
> >> It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with
> >> American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The
> >> simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a
> >> concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had
> >> created no sustainable government. We should have bombed
> >> Tora Bora and split.
> >
> >
> > I'm amazed that the hundreds of amateur experts in foreign
> > policy and military matters waited until just weeks ago to
> > dispense their wisdom. They said so little about Afghanistan
> > during the past several presidential administrations!
> >
> > In fact, where were the protests when the GOP was still
> > praising the "peace agreement" and pullout?
> > (see "GOP Takes Down 2020 Page..." at
> > https://theweek.com/news/1004350/the-afghanistan-war-was-the-least-reported-war-since-at-least-wwi
> > )
> >
> > All these "experts" must have known when we were going to
> > pull out. Where were the brilliant posts telling exactly how
> > our pullout should be arranged?
> >
> > Related: Why are so many amateur quarterbacks at their very
> > best on the Monday after the game?
> >
> Many people, including me, criticized Mr Bush, Mr Obama and
> Mr Trump in turn. (the preset situation is almost beyond
> words and is yet active[1]) I think there may be an RBT post
> early on in which I asked for a definition of victory and a
> plan to get there. Such was never forthcoming in all these
> years, down to this morning.

Its not beyond words, and in fact it is predictable -- and can be modeled. Casualties can be estimated, assuming good intelligence. This is like waking up from surgery and being surprised about having a scar. Whether Dr. Biden produces more surgical complications than Drs. Trump, Obama or Bush is yet to be seen, but the surgery needed to be done, unless, of course, you believe that we should have a permanent presence in Afghanistan, as some do.

>
> My turning point was reading the account of a Navy Seal at
> Tora Bora who wrote that his commander asked for more
> soldiers & air support to block the exodus to Pakistan. He
> blames Rumsfeld for denying the request.

To block the exodus of a bunch of radicalized Saudis. After the US attacks and the at least temporary dissolution of the Taliban, my turning point was watching the Bush administration engage in the fantasy act of nation-building in a region controlled by waring ethnic tribes that shared two things -- Islam and a hatred for Western nations. We were a bunch of rubes who got fleeced by the locals. We could have paid-off some Saudis to grab bin Laden and dissolve his body in acid.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:36:06 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >
> > >On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
> > >>
> > >> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
> > >>
> > >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
> > >>
> > >> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
> > >>
> > >> Andre Jute
> > >> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
> > >>
> > >
> > >Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
> > >consequences."
> > >
> > >https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
> > >
> > >Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
> > >want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
> > >or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.”
> > >
> > >The consequences have only just begun.
> > That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
> > Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
> >
> > I guess that she missed the part about
> > “From the Halls of Montezuma
> > To the shores of Tripoli;
> > We fight our country’s battles"
> Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
>
> Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
>
> Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
>
> If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.

Jay, what you mean to say is that you wouldn't vote for him today because he stood for truth and honesty and honor in government and you stand with your governor and believe that children should be able to graduate from school unable to read, write or do math. It is that honor thing that really gets to you though.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 7:05:50 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 9:36:06 p.m. UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > > On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > >> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
> > > >>
> > > >> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
> > > >>
> > > >> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
> > > >>
> > > >> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
> > > >>
> > > >> Andre Jute
> > > >> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
> > > >consequences."
> > > >
> > > >https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
> > > >
> > > >Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
> > > >want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
> > > >or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.”
> > > >
> > > >The consequences have only just begun.
> > > That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
> > > Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
> > >
> > > I guess that she missed the part about
> > > “From the Halls of Montezuma
> > > To the shores of Tripoli;
> > > We fight our country’s battles"
> > Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
> >
> > Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
> >
> > Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
> >
> > If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> There are many great reasons as to why Afghanistan is referred to in History as: "The graveyard of nations".
>
> Was this Afghanistan thing done to feed the USA Industrial Military Complex that Roosevelt warned about?
>
> IMHO, I don't think that governments or corporations are all that concerned about individuals or even small groups of people. What they ARE concerned about is gaining and keeping POWER and MONEY.

You really need to have a little education before you hide behind your pseudonym to spout your lack of it. It wasn't Roosevelt that "warned about the military-industrial complex", it was Eisenhower who had an up close and personal relationship with it and knew their intent to destroy our Republic for profit.

On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:07:17 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 8/30/2021 8:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >>>> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Andre Jute
> > >>>> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
> > >>> consequences."
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
> > >>>
> > >>> Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
> > >>> want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
> > >>> or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.â€
> > >>>
> > >>> The consequences have only just begun.
> > >> That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
> > >> Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
> > >>
> > >> I guess that she missed the part about
> > >> “From the Halls of Montezuma
> > >> To the shores of Tripoli;
> > >> We fight our country’s battles"
> > >
> > > Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
> > >
> > > Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
> > >
> > > Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
> > >
> > > If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
> > >
> > > -- Jay Beattie.
> > >
> > >
> > Washington paid ransom as did Adams. Jefferson refused and
> > sent Decatur & Easton instead, to great effect, as noted by
> > Mr Slocumb above.
> >
> Washington and Adams paid a tribute. Jefferson paid a ransom, which was an important point for him. That was how the First Barbary War concluded -- shores of Tripoli and then paid a ransom for prisoners.
> > There is disaster and then there are command/strategic
> > errors. Mr Gorbachev made an orderly four year withdrawal
> > leaving a commie satrap regime which lasted several years.
> > No one can say there was no precedent because there is.
> >
> > You have to go back to Corregidor/Bataan to get near this
> > sort of command failure. We haven't seen hostages. Yet.
> Right. Thirteen marines blown up by a terrorist bomber compared to hundreds of soldiers killed, thousands taken prison in Corregidor/Bataan. Nazis!
> >
> > Afghan regulars were not getting their pay and since June
> > not even resupply of 'beans bullets & bandaids' as the
> > Afghan regime or civil service (or probably both) were
> > diverting our payments from soldiers in the field. Those
> > among us who have followed Long War Journal every week for
> > twenty years saw this happening but it was news to Foggy
> > Bottom and the Pentagon (!). Or so we're told.
> It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had created no sustainable government. We should have bombed Tora Bora and split.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
Maybe you'd like to explain what Nazi's had to do with Bataan and Corregidor?

We had NO business in Afghanistan other than to find and kill terrorists. But the USA has historically tried to save people from themselves and Afghanistan was no different in the PUBLIC eye even if the the government here under Bush made that entire idea a joke.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 12:01:50 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:07:17 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 8/30/2021 8:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > > >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > >>>> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Andre Jute
> > > >>>> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
> > > >>> consequences."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
> > > >>> want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
> > > >>> or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.â€
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The consequences have only just begun.
> > > >> That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
> > > >> Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
> > > >>
> > > >> I guess that she missed the part about
> > > >> “From the Halls of Montezuma
> > > >> To the shores of Tripoli;
> > > >> We fight our country’s battles"
> > > >
> > > > Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
> > > >
> > > > Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
> > > >
> > > > Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
> > > >
> > > > If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
> > > >
> > > > -- Jay Beattie.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Washington paid ransom as did Adams. Jefferson refused and
> > > sent Decatur & Easton instead, to great effect, as noted by
> > > Mr Slocumb above.
> > >
> > Washington and Adams paid a tribute. Jefferson paid a ransom, which was an important point for him. That was how the First Barbary War concluded -- shores of Tripoli and then paid a ransom for prisoners.
> > > There is disaster and then there are command/strategic
> > > errors. Mr Gorbachev made an orderly four year withdrawal
> > > leaving a commie satrap regime which lasted several years.
> > > No one can say there was no precedent because there is.
> > >
> > > You have to go back to Corregidor/Bataan to get near this
> > > sort of command failure. We haven't seen hostages. Yet.
> > Right. Thirteen marines blown up by a terrorist bomber compared to hundreds of soldiers killed, thousands taken prison in Corregidor/Bataan. Nazis!
> > >
> > > Afghan regulars were not getting their pay and since June
> > > not even resupply of 'beans bullets & bandaids' as the
> > > Afghan regime or civil service (or probably both) were
> > > diverting our payments from soldiers in the field. Those
> > > among us who have followed Long War Journal every week for
> > > twenty years saw this happening but it was news to Foggy
> > > Bottom and the Pentagon (!). Or so we're told.
> > It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had created no sustainable government. We should have bombed Tora Bora and split.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> Maybe you'd like to explain what Nazi's had to do with Bataan and Corregidor?
>
> We had NO business in Afghanistan other than to find and kill terrorists. But the USA has historically tried to save people from themselves and Afghanistan was no different in the PUBLIC eye even if the the government here under Bush made that entire idea a joke.

Nazi was a reference to Goodwin's Law -- and the hysterical way in which opinions are expressed these days -- comparing sometimes minor events to a nuclear holocaust, slavery, the plague, fascism, etc., etc. I have similar views on the term "hero."

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 6:13:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/31/2021 7:20 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> > I really thought Trump was going to win the election because everyone would realize how bad Biden's mental debility is, but people either didn't seem to notice it or didn't care. I still fail to understand why they couldn't see it.
> >
> Or wondered, 'How bad could it be?'.
> This s**tshow has just begun.

The Democrat Oligarchy has been working very hard to control this country by turning it against itself by installing the most virulent loony tune idealists in power.

There was no real threat from Russia after the Berlin wall fell. Why is Russia still considered our enemy and not a simple less competitive nation of the world? China is and always has been since communism took over, the enemy of the entire world with the virulent intent of owning and ordering their world in their own image.

There is no such thing as man-made climate change and never was. I don't know if you remember that I am somewhat an expert in spectroscopy and CO2 has NO effect in the atmosphere or anything to do with climate. The Earth's slightly elliptical orbit is the cause of the cyclic climate variations. But if you teach children that they can't own a car you have them by the nuts since that is one of the prime sources of freedom in this world.

Covid-19 is almost entirely harmless. Not only were there only about 12-15,000 deaths caused by it and not the CDC reported 600,000 but, the additional 30,000 or so deaths were caused by the lockdowns and NOT covid-19. The CHIEF indicator of deaths were gross obesity. If you stop these people from working which is in general their only form of exercise, you kill them with a fork.

Since December of 2020 there hasn't been a single excess death in any of the health categories so exactly where are the Delta Variant deaths? How are they diagnosing covid-19? It is an influenza and the so is easy to diagnose through symptomatic presentation, but having the flu and dying from it are substantially different things. Why the big lie that covid is killing people? The CDC is not reporting actual deaths, they have a computer model that they are using that supposes that all of the normal deaths are occurring. So any reported covid deaths must be excess. But since there are NO additional deaths above the yearly norm, they can only be doing that on purpose.

People better start wising up and realize that the only people to benefit from all of this crap is the Chinese Communist Party. I don't think that they did it on purpose but I do think that after it happened they took advantage of it.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 8:08:20 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/30/2021 11:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >
> > It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had created no sustainable government. We should have bombed Tora Bora and split.
> I'm amazed that the hundreds of amateur experts in foreign policy and
> military matters waited until just weeks ago to dispense their wisdom.
> They said so little about Afghanistan during the past several
> presidential administrations!
>
> In fact, where were the protests when the GOP was still praising the
> "peace agreement" and pullout?
> (see "GOP Takes Down 2020 Page..." at
> https://theweek.com/news/1004350/the-afghanistan-war-was-the-least-reported-war-since-at-least-wwi
> )
>
> All these "experts" must have known when we were going to pull out.
> Where were the brilliant posts telling exactly how our pullout should be
> arranged?
>
> Related: Why are so many amateur quarterbacks at their very best on the
> Monday after the game?

Tell us all Frank, until Obama exactly WHAT IN THE HELL DID YOU KNOW ABOUT AFGHANISTAN? Obama was ELECTED on the promise of withdrawal and he immediately increased America's presence there 4 fold. Your continual commenting on things you so obviously know nothing about is certainly no surprise. The surprise is when you don't comment.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 9:00:12 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/31/2021 10:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 8/30/2021 11:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>
> >> It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with
> >> American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The
> >> simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a
> >> concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had
> >> created no sustainable government. We should have bombed
> >> Tora Bora and split.
> >
> >
> > I'm amazed that the hundreds of amateur experts in foreign
> > policy and military matters waited until just weeks ago to
> > dispense their wisdom. They said so little about Afghanistan
> > during the past several presidential administrations!
> >
> > In fact, where were the protests when the GOP was still
> > praising the "peace agreement" and pullout?
> > (see "GOP Takes Down 2020 Page..." at
> > https://theweek.com/news/1004350/the-afghanistan-war-was-the-least-reported-war-since-at-least-wwi
> > )
> >
> > All these "experts" must have known when we were going to
> > pull out. Where were the brilliant posts telling exactly how
> > our pullout should be arranged?
> >
> > Related: Why are so many amateur quarterbacks at their very
> > best on the Monday after the game?
> >
> Many people, including me, criticized Mr Bush, Mr Obama and
> Mr Trump in turn. (the preset situation is almost beyond
> words and is yet active[1]) I think there may be an RBT post
> early on in which I asked for a definition of victory and a
> plan to get there. Such was never forthcoming in all these
> years, down to this morning.
>
> My turning point was reading the account of a Navy Seal at
> Tora Bora who wrote that his commander asked for more
> soldiers & air support to block the exodus to Pakistan. He
> blames Rumsfeld for denying the request.
>
> I'm sympathetic to, even admiring of, Rumsfeld's push for
> lighter faster cheaper but as with any habit there are
> exigencies which need a different solution urgently.
>
> [1] Radio news endlessly repeats 'end of a twenty year war'.
> pffft. As in all things, the enemy gets a vote and it's not
> nearly over to them. Just beginning, in fact.

Bush was in the pockets of the Military-Industrial Complex. As was Obama who it is easily recognized by his immense accumulation of wealth in so short a period.

Trump was never a politician and as a businessman he ASSUMED that the people in the government were working for the America people and not grasping for power. It took him a little while to learn who he could trust and whom he could not. This is how Fauci fell so rapidly out of favor when it became obvious that HE was touting his own investments over public health concerns.. Military officers on the level of the Joint Chiefs are always difficult to read because it is so easy for them to fool themselves that they are in it for the good of the country rather than accumulation of honors. These people actually believe that they are doing good if they earn yet another ribbon. Yet a PFC accomplishing the same thing would never even put in for the same honor.

Andrew, never being around a political power structure has left you with the idea that a normal person like you, would know how to react without more experience. Of all of those companies I was in that failed, it became increasingly clear that those companies that did succeed were kissing some politicians ass. And after I rose to the levels of those people I too was dumped for not bringing credit not to the company but to a politician who could make the difference between a successful product or not.

Of needs this is partially necessary just as advertising which is generally a pack of lies is necessary to make products salable. But the line has to be drawn. And the Democrats have no intensions of drawing any lines. You need ONLY look to New York, Chicago and Philadelphia.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 12:16:08 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 12:01:50 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 8:07:17 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 8/30/2021 8:36 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 6:02:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > > > >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 19:38:22 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> On 8/30/2021 7:26 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > > >>>> Who should take the blame for Joe Biden's continual fuck-ups?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Why, you should, if you voted for him.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I warned you the blame would arrive. Now , after only seven months, the blame for your frivolous crime of electing someone, who *everyone* (1) knows for a fuckup, has arrived.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Andre Jute
> > > > >>>> --(1) "Don't ever underestimate Joe' Biden's talent for fucking up everything." -- Barack Obama, sometime President of the United States
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Mr Obama, with some prescience, also said, "Elections have
> > > > >>> consequences."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/30/slain-marines-mom-tells-biden-voters-you-just-kill/
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Noted expert in that link says, “My son is gone, and I just
> > > > >>> want [to tell] all you Democrats who cheated in the election
> > > > >>> or who voted for him legitimately, you just killed my son.â€
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> The consequences have only just begun.
> > > > >> That is ridicules. The son voluntarily enlisted in the Marine Corps.
> > > > >> Does the mother believe that somehow makes him bullet proof?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I guess that she missed the part about
> > > > >> “From the Halls of Montezuma
> > > > >> To the shores of Tripoli;
> > > > >> We fight our country’s battles"
> > > > >
> > > > > Jefferson paid a ransom to the Barbary Pirates. He couldn't get elected these days.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pulling troops out of a corrupt and unstable nation will result in casualties, and in this case, it wasn't even the incoming regime that caused the casualties -- it was their enemy, ISIS, once again proving that the enemy of my enemy is not my friend -- its just another enemy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does/did anyone have an entirely safe exit strategy that did not involve a perpetual presence in Afghanistan and an endless drain on the US economy? Did Trump have one? Bush? Is there some standard for measuring Biden's performance and the performance of his generals?
> > > > >
> > > > > If we only had the resolve to win the war . . . like the Russians, or the British . . . or the Mongolians or Macedonians.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Jay Beattie.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Washington paid ransom as did Adams. Jefferson refused and
> > > > sent Decatur & Easton instead, to great effect, as noted by
> > > > Mr Slocumb above.
> > > >
> > > Washington and Adams paid a tribute. Jefferson paid a ransom, which was an important point for him. That was how the First Barbary War concluded -- shores of Tripoli and then paid a ransom for prisoners.
> > > > There is disaster and then there are command/strategic
> > > > errors. Mr Gorbachev made an orderly four year withdrawal
> > > > leaving a commie satrap regime which lasted several years.
> > > > No one can say there was no precedent because there is.
> > > >
> > > > You have to go back to Corregidor/Bataan to get near this
> > > > sort of command failure. We haven't seen hostages. Yet.
> > > Right. Thirteen marines blown up by a terrorist bomber compared to hundreds of soldiers killed, thousands taken prison in Corregidor/Bataan. Nazis!
> > > >
> > > > Afghan regulars were not getting their pay and since June
> > > > not even resupply of 'beans bullets & bandaids' as the
> > > > Afghan regime or civil service (or probably both) were
> > > > diverting our payments from soldiers in the field. Those
> > > > among us who have followed Long War Journal every week for
> > > > twenty years saw this happening but it was news to Foggy
> > > > Bottom and the Pentagon (!). Or so we're told.
> > > It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had created no sustainable government. We should have bombed Tora Bora and split.
> > >
> > > -- Jay Beattie.
> > Maybe you'd like to explain what Nazi's had to do with Bataan and Corregidor?
> >
> > We had NO business in Afghanistan other than to find and kill terrorists. But the USA has historically tried to save people from themselves and Afghanistan was no different in the PUBLIC eye even if the the government here under Bush made that entire idea a joke.
> Nazi was a reference to Goodwin's Law -- and the hysterical way in which opinions are expressed these days -- comparing sometimes minor events to a nuclear holocaust, slavery, the plague, fascism, etc., etc. I have similar views on the term "hero."

I should have thought by now that you'd know that references to slavery are every bit accurate to what the Democrats are attempting to do. Election fraud IS the very essence of slavery.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 12:44:36 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 12:16:08 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > Maybe you'd like to explain what Nazi's had to do with Bataan and Corregidor?
> > >
> > > We had NO business in Afghanistan other than to find and kill terrorists. But the USA has historically tried to save people from themselves and Afghanistan was no different in the PUBLIC eye even if the the government here under Bush made that entire idea a joke.
> > Nazi was a reference to Goodwin's Law -- and the hysterical way in which opinions are expressed these days -- comparing sometimes minor events to a nuclear holocaust, slavery, the plague, fascism, etc., etc. I have similar views on the term "hero."
> I should have thought by now that you'd know that references to slavery are every bit accurate to what the Democrats are attempting to do. Election fraud IS the very essence of slavery.
Here is a perfect example of what is going on around you Jay. Does this sound as if the Democrats want you to know the truth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsBFLEapzfw

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 11:08:15 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 8/30/2021 11:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>
>> It was a wickedly corrupt and unpopular regime with American dollars going down endless rat-holes. The simultaneous collapse of numerous provinces suggests a concerted sell-out, and that after 20 years, we had created no sustainable government. We should have bombed Tora Bora and split.
>
>
>I'm amazed that the hundreds of amateur experts in foreign policy and
>military matters waited until just weeks ago to dispense their wisdom.
>They said so little about Afghanistan during the past several
>presidential administrations!
>
>In fact, where were the protests when the GOP was still praising the
>"peace agreement" and pullout?
>(see "GOP Takes Down 2020 Page..." at
>https://theweek.com/news/1004350/the-afghanistan-war-was-the-least-reported-war-since-at-least-wwi
> )
>
>All these "experts" must have known when we were going to pull out.
>Where were the brilliant posts telling exactly how our pullout should be
>arranged?
>
>Related: Why are so many amateur quarterbacks at their very best on the
>Monday after the game?

Well it is certainly easier to be an "expert" Monday morning after the
match (:-)

But what I find interesting is that major military forces had invaded
Afghanistan since the 1800's and crept away licking their wounds.
Didn't anyone noticed?

Or is this simply a matter of "those who ignore history are doomed to
repeat it"?
--
Cheers,

John B.