On 7/10/23 9:45 AM, sms wrote:
>On 7/10/2023 8:55 AM, AJL wrote:
>
>
>> Waste of taxes. Libraries are so old fashioned with most everything
>> available online these days...

>OMG, never say that in my City. The library is extremely popular, not so
>much for books,

When I say library I mean the book kind.

> but for the other services that they provide that are
>not available online.
>There's a line outside when it opens in the morning. The meeting spaces,
>the teen rooms, and the children's section are all popular.

My city has such a place but sans books.

>The foreign
>language books, newspapers and magazines are also popular. There are
>thousands of videos in multiple languages.

Most all are likely available online. Just not free at taxpayer expense

> It's open seven days a week,
>for long hours.

Yep. I've heard of CAs legendary taxes... ;)

On 7/10/2023 9:55 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> To have different upload and download speed on fibre is ridiculous:
> there is no technical reason whatsoever that justifies it. In fact, the
> provider has to invest in hardware and software (and admin work) to
> impose the limitation.
>
> They do it for commercial reasons, meaning, lack of competition, and
> charging more for a symmetric connection. It is somewhat dishonest.
>
> There are reasons why users may want better upload speeds. Sharing
> content is the obvious one, but not necessarily for publication. Just
> uploading your photos for someone else to see, for instance, or
> uploading your backup to some cloud service. And eventually they will
> charge for this, so it has a business advantage.

They differentiate the product between business users and residential
users so they can compete in the residential space while not leaving
money on the table for business users.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 7/10/2023 10:00 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

> I can imagine that AT&T attaches a lot of importance to those stats.
> They have been seeing it for decades :-)

The other issue with "fewest dropped calls" is that it assumes that it
was possible to place a call in the first place. You can drop a lower
percentage of calls when you can't place or receive a call to begin with.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 7/10/23 10:07 AM, Neil wrote:
>On 7/10/2023 3:55 PM, AJL wrote:
>> Waste of taxes. Libraries are so old fashioned with most everything
>> available online these days...
>
>You must not be aware of school age children existing since in my town,
>when the high school lets out, the kids stream to the library en masse.
>
>They have their own section, complete with non-messy snacks. Yes. Snacks.
>There is a sign saying no adults are allowed after 2pm on school days.
>
>They even have their own (female, very friendly, unarmed) police officer.
>
>I asked her once, why she is "guarding the teens in the library", and she
>said it's a plan to make the kids feel safe - even as it's already one of
>the richest safest most well-educated gentrified towns in the nation.

Why waste tax money on a cop if the library's safe?

Funny story: Our high schools had city cops. Then the anti-cop movement took
over and they fired them. Now things are worse and the schools want them
back. But the city's now short of officers so no deal...

>They turned the old library into a used bookstore run by volunteers.

Good idea if no taxpayer funds used...

In article <u8hf5c$2j60l$3@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> The other issue with "fewest dropped calls" is that it assumes that it
> was possible to place a call in the first place. You can drop a lower
> percentage of calls when you can't place or receive a call to begin with.

that's not how it's calculated.

On 7/10/2023 10:07 AM, Neil wrote:
> On 7/10/2023 3:55 PM, AJL wrote:
>> Waste of taxes. Libraries are so old fashioned with most everything
>>  available online these days...
>
> You must not be aware of school age children existing since in my town,
> when the high school lets out, the kids stream to the library en masse.
>
> They have their own section, complete with non-messy snacks. Yes. Snacks.
> There is a sign saying no adults are allowed after 2pm on school days.

+1. Our library is the primary meeting place for teens after school. In
the morning it's popular for seniors, especially non-English speaking
seniors because of the collection of materials in other languages.
There's a coffee shop attached to the library. I really like the
audiobook selection which is good to have on road trips.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 7/10/2023 10:36 AM, AJL wrote:

> Why waste tax money on a cop if the library's safe?

It discourages problem individuals from entering and being disruptive.
During the height of Covid the security people enforced mask mandates.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 7/10/2023 10:36 AM, AJL wrote:

<snip>

>> They turned the old library into a used bookstore run by volunteers.
>
> Good idea if no taxpayer funds used...

Taxpayer funds are used for lots of things that not every taxpayer uses.

We no longer use the playgrounds, we don't use the senior center, we
don't use the city-owned golf course. We don't use the public schools
anymore. And some of the people that use those things don't use the library.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 7/10/23 4:21 AM, sms wrote:

> That works for you, but more and more people are no longer willing to
> pay for cable TV service and get only broadband internet. Paying for one
> or two streaming services is a lot cheaper, especially with all the
> hidden fees that cable companies have been adding. If you have Amazon
> Prime anyway, then they have a large selection of included movies.
> Personally, I also have a place that I can walk to in five minutes with
> a huge selection of DVDs and Blu-Ray discs that they lend out for free
> (the public library).

Ours also lends ebooks. AND I recently discovered that they will also
lend chromebooks and/or hotspots for a month with a 1-month renewal.
They have maybe 30 hotspots, but all were either out or in transit.
Depending on how long you need to reserve in advance of need, a hotspot
would be perfect for taking on vacation when you (I, actually!) have no
data plan and depend on the kindness of strangers, McD, Pilot and
Starbucks. No idea what network they use, but it's gotta be better than
none.

I had one of the Freedompop $20 hotspots which I used ONCE before they
closed up shop. THAT was a good deal. Too good, apparently.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?" --Juvenal

On 7/10/23 7:57 AM, sms wrote:
> On 7/10/2023 6:48 AM, AJL wrote:
>> On 7/10/2023 4:21 AM, sms wrote:

>>> Personally, I also have a place that I can walk to in five minutes
>>> with a huge selection of DVDs and Blu-Ray discs that they lend out
>>> for free (the public library).
>>
>> I'm fortunate that I don't have to skimp in my later life. YMMV.
>
> LOL, I don't see it as skimping.

Neither do I. We have Amazon Prime. I've looked at the video
offerings. Seem to be the same as the other people who offer paid
streaming. Not worth the time or money.

> Having a huge collection of movies to
> watch, far more than available streaming, in exchange for a yearly
> parcel tax assessment to pay for the library, is worthwhile. I also
> helped push through an $8 million library expansion when I was on my
> city's city council.

Good for you. Our city council is pretty much worthless for anything
beyond annoying the residents. Two years ago it was discovered that the
nearly-100-years-old main library has earthquake problems and might
collapse and cause myriad legal and financial problems to the city
government and maybe loss of life or something else unimportant like
books. They just appointed a committee to Figure Out What To Do About
It. I think they've spent a couple $million so far. Fortunately we
have a lot of branch libraries to take up the slack, but moving all that
stuff is a slow process.

>> I can get around 60 channels on a pair of rabbit ears. Just not the
>> one's the wife likes to watch (like Naked and Afraid) but don't tell her
>> I told you or I'll be in deep doo doo...  8-O
>
> I get about 200 channels, with about 1/4 in English.

And STILL nothing to watch! Apparently more and more YOUNG people are
using subtitles for their own language because modern sound design is
much worse than it used to be. Look at old movies -- you could always
understand the dialog. Not any more.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?" --Juvenal

On 7/10/23 8:55 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 7/10/23 7:57 AM, sms wrote:
>>On 7/10/2023 6:48 AM, AJL wrote:
>>> On 7/10/2023 4:21 AM, sms wrote:
>>>
>>>> more and more people are no longer willing to pay for cable TV
>>>> service and get only broadband internet.
>>>
>>> True.
>>>
>>>> Paying for one or two streaming services is a lot cheaper
>>>
>>> Depends on what you want. Some folks (from what I read) actually pay
>>> more for several streaming services than cable.
>>>
>>>> If you have Amazon Prime anyway, then they have a large selection of
>>>> included movies.
>>>
>>> I have Prime. AND (gasp) Netflix...
>>>
>>>> Personally, I also have a place that I can walk to in five minutes
>>>> with a huge selection of DVDs and Blu-Ray discs that they lend out
>>>> for free (the public library).
>>>
>>> I'm fortunate that I don't have to skimp in my later life. YMMV.
>>
>>LOL, I don't see it as skimping. Having a huge collection of movies to
>>watch, far more than available streaming
>
> Doubt that. I have many 1000s available on Netflix alone. And I don't
> pollute driving to the library...
>
>>, in exchange for a yearly
>>parcel tax assessment to pay for the library, is worthwhile.
>
>>I also
>>helped push through an $8 million library expansion when I was on my
>>city's city council.
>
> Waste of taxes. Libraries are so old fashioned with most everything
> available online these days...

Sorry, that's absolutely wrong. There may be a lot of stuff available
on line, but I don't trust the custodians to NOT pull the plug. We need
both.

Whatever happened to google's highly-virtuous plan to digitize the
world's books? I think the publishers banded together and screamed
COPYRIGHT VIOLATION, but I haven't heard anything about it for years.

--
Cheers, Bev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

On 7/10/23 9:45 AM, sms wrote:
> On 7/10/2023 8:55 AM, AJL wrote:
>
>> Waste of taxes. Libraries are so old fashioned with most everything
>> available online these days...
>
> OMG, never say that in my City. The library is extremely popular, not so
> much for books, but for the other services that they provide that are
> not available online.
>
> There's a line outside when it opens in the morning. The meeting spaces,
> the teen rooms, and the children's section are all popular. The foreign
> language books, newspapers and magazines are also popular. There are
> thousands of videos in multiple languages. It's open seven days a week,
> for long hours.

They're the custodians of civilization. Lots of things we should give
up before the libraries.

--
Cheers, Bev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

On 7/10/23 10:54 AM, sms wrote:
>On 7/10/2023 10:36 AM, AJL wrote:

>> Why waste tax money on a cop if the library's safe?

>It discourages problem individuals from entering and being disruptive.

Apparently wasn't a safe place so they had to hire the heat...

On 7/10/23 10:21 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 7/10/23 9:45 AM, sms wrote:
>>On 7/10/2023 8:55 AM, AJL wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Waste of taxes. Libraries are so old fashioned with most everything
>>> available online these days...
>
>>OMG, never say that in my City. The library is extremely popular, not so
>>much for books,
>
> When I say library I mean the book kind.
>
>> but for the other services that they provide that are
>>not available online.
>>There's a line outside when it opens in the morning. The meeting spaces,
>>the teen rooms, and the children's section are all popular.
>
> My city has such a place but sans books.
>
>>The foreign
>>language books, newspapers and magazines are also popular. There are
>>thousands of videos in multiple languages.
>
> Most all are likely available online. Just not free at taxpayer expense
>
>> It's open seven days a week,
>>for long hours.
>
> Yep. I've heard of CAs legendary taxes... ;)

One of the few things worth spending tax money on. Most are garbage
created by venal shitheads victimizing ignorant voters.

--
Cheers, Bev
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

On 7/10/2023 12:08 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> They're the custodians of civilization.  Lots of things we should give
> up before the libraries.

The 1st and 3rd most educated towns in the U.S. (Saratoga, CA and
Cupertino, CA)
<https://dwellics.com/rankings/most-educated-cities-america-2023> have
excellent libraries that are part of our county's library system (some
cities in the county opted out and operate their own libraries). This is
not causation, it's correlation. Towns where the residents are highly
educated are willing to tax themselves to provide the kinds of services
that libraries provide.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

5On 7/10/23 10:57 AM, sms wrote:
>On 7/10/2023 10:36 AM, AJL wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>> They turned the old library into a used bookstore run by volunteers.
>>
>> Good idea if no taxpayer funds used...
>
>Taxpayer funds are used for lots of things that not every taxpayer uses.

>We no longer use the playgrounds

Most of the playgrounds in my area are owned by the various HOA
neighborhoods. No tax support.

> we don't use the senior center,

The 2 senior centers in my compound are HOA owned No tax support.

> we
>don't use the city-owned golf course.

No city owned course im my city. The 2 golf courses in my compound are HOA
owned. But they are open to the public and PAY taxes...

>We don't use the public schools
>anymore.

Both public and accredited private schools here are tax supported. That does
make sense.

>And some of the people that use those things don't use the library.

Likely the vast super majority use the net instead of wasting a trip to the
library...

On 7/10/2023 10:21 AM, AJL wrote:

<snip>

> Yep. I've heard of CAs legendary taxes...  ;)

The California total tax burden is 8.89%. Texas is 8.01%. That extra
0.88% is well worth it. The California taxes are also much less
regressive. Texas has no State income tax but its property and other
taxes are higher.
<https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494>.

>

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

hiOn 7/10/23 12:07 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>On 7/10/23 8:55 AM, AJL wrote:

>> Waste of taxes. Libraries are so old fashioned with most everything
>> available online these days...
>
>Sorry, that's absolutely wrong. There may be a lot of stuff available
>on line, but I don't trust the custodians to NOT pull the plug.

There are billions of custodians. Some are trustworthy.

> We need
>both.

'We' don't. I havn't been in a library in years.

>Whatever happened to google's highly-virtuous plan to digitize the
>world's books?
>I think the publishers banded together and screamed
>COPYRIGHT VIOLATION, but I haven't heard anything about it for years.

And rightly so. Authors should have control over their work...

On 7/10/23 12:13 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>On 7/10/23 10:21 AM, AJL wrote:
>> On 7/10/23 9:45 AM, sms wrote:
>>>On 7/10/2023 8:55 AM, AJL wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Waste of taxes. Libraries are so old fashioned with most everything
>>>> available online these days...
>>
>>>OMG, never say that in my City. The library is extremely popular, not so
>>>much for books,
>>
>> When I say library I mean the book kind.
>>
>>> but for the other services that they provide that are
>>>not available online.
>>>There's a line outside when it opens in the morning. The meeting spaces,
>>>the teen rooms, and the children's section are all popular.
>>
>> My city has such a place but sans books.
>>
>>>The foreign
>>>language books, newspapers and magazines are also popular. There are
>>>thousands of videos in multiple languages.
>>
>> Most all are likely available online. Just not free at taxpayer expense
>>
>>> It's open seven days a week,
>>>for long hours.
>>
>> Yep. I've heard of CAs legendary taxes... ;)
>
>One of the few things worth spending tax money on. Most are garbage
>created by venal shitheads victimizing ignorant voters.

YMMV...

On 2023-07-10 19:29, sms wrote:
> On 7/10/2023 10:00 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I can imagine that AT&T attaches a lot of importance to those stats.
>> They have been seeing it for decades :-)
>
> The other issue with "fewest dropped calls" is that it assumes that it
> was possible to place a call in the first place. You can drop a lower
> percentage of calls when you can't place or receive a call to begin with.

No, that wasn't how it was calculated.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In article <u8hmrh$2jsvh$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > Yep. I've heard of CAs legendary taxes...  ;)
>
> The California total tax burden is 8.89%. Texas is 8.01%. That extra
> 0.88% is well worth it. The California taxes are also much less
> regressive. Texas has no State income tax but its property and other
> taxes are higher.

nice bit of cherry picking, as well as being wrong. the 'total tax
burden' includes other taxes, notably sales tax. which is over 9% where
you live and nearly 11% in the east bay, a short drive away. meanwhile,
neighboring oregon has *no* sales tax.

On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 11:55:53 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
> ..... Apparently more and more YOUNG people are
> using subtitles for their own language because modern sound design is
> much worse than it used to be. Look at old movies -- you could always
> understand the dialog. Not any more.

So true. So true.
Notice, too, how they rarely use well lit scenes,
and play pointless loud 'music' over dialog.