There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much..

Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.

What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.

So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.

Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.

In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.

But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.

Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.

In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.

The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
>
>Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
>
>What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
>
>So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
>
>Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
>
>In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
>
>But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
>
>Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
>
>In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
>
>The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.

The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'

To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
"Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
and special funds.

Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."

As for the national debt - well
"On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
accomplished"

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
> >
> >Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
> >
> >What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
> >
> >So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
> >
> >Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
> >
> >In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
> >
> >But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
> >
> >Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
> >
> >In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
> >
> >The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
> The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
> renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
>
> To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
> "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
> Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
> and special funds.
>
> Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
> corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
> GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
>
> As for the national debt - well
> "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
> national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
> accomplished"

John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.

Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:19:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
> > >
> > >Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
> > >
> > >What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
> > >
> > >So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
> > >
> > >Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
> > >
> > >In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
> > >
> > >But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
> > >
> > >Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
> > >
> > >In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
> > >
> > >The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
> > The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
> > renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
> >
> > To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
> > "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
> > Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
> > and special funds.
> >
> > Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
> > corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
> > GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
> >
> > As for the national debt - well
> > "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
> > national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
> > accomplished"
> John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.
>
> Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.

??????????

Tommy wrote: "NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT?"

I see you are up to your usual conniving, scheming, tricky ways Tommy boy. Inventing, making up something no one said and then yelling and screaming about it. Good job.

On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
>> >
>> >Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
>> >
>> >What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
>> >
>> >So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
>> >
>> >Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
>> >
>> >In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
>> >
>> >But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
>> >
>> >Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
>> >
>> >In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
>> >
>> >The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
>> The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
>> renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
>>
>> To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
>> "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
>> Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
>> and special funds.
>>
>> Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
>> corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
>> GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
>>
>> As for the national debt - well
>> "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
>> national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
>> accomplished"
>
>John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.
>
>Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.

No, you are correct I never owned any U.S. Government Bonds although I
did, for a while, own some bonds issued by the City of Boston.

As for your capitalized "NO BOND HOLDER" above. I can't find the
statement on your Penny site and it doesn't make any sense at all, at
least as you post it, since someone who "holds a bond" is quite
obviously not responsible for the debts of the government, after he is
one of the people that the government owes the debt to.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 3:55:48 PM UTC-7, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:19:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
> > > >
> > > >Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
> > > >
> > > >What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
> > > >
> > > >So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
> > > >
> > > >Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
> > > >
> > > >In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
> > > >
> > > >But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
> > > >
> > > >Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
> > > >
> > > >In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
> > > >
> > > >The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
> > > The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
> > > renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
> > >
> > > To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
> > > "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
> > > Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
> > > and special funds.
> > >
> > > Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
> > > corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
> > > GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
> > >
> > > As for the national debt - well
> > > "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
> > > national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
> > > accomplished"
> > John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.
> >
> > Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.
> ??????????
>
> Tommy wrote: "NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT?"
>
> I see you are up to your usual conniving, scheming, tricky ways Tommy boy.. Inventing, making up something no one said and then yelling and screaming about it. Good job.

And the bad news is that we're all assuming the debt of the United States. It's not like the United States is making money selling magazines or something. It has to collect taxes to pay off its debt.

I pay an incredible amount of general taxes and self-employment tax to support welfare slags like Tom. We should have a Gofundme page for the US. We could put sad pictures of Tom on it: "Please, help this poor man. All he has are his old titanium bicycles and his unhinged ranting on a bicycle newsgroup. Only you can help. Donate today." https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/funny-sign21.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 7:11:44 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 3:55:48 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:19:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
> > > > >
> > > > >Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
> > > > >
> > > > >What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
> > > > >
> > > > >So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
> > > > >
> > > > >Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
> > > > >
> > > > >In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
> > > > >
> > > > >But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
> > > > >
> > > > >Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
> > > > >
> > > > >In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
> > > > >
> > > > >The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
> > > > The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
> > > > renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
> > > >
> > > > To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
> > > > "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
> > > > Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
> > > > and special funds.
> > > >
> > > > Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
> > > > corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
> > > > GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
> > > >
> > > > As for the national debt - well
> > > > "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
> > > > national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
> > > > accomplished"
> > > John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.
> > >
> > > Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.
> > ??????????
> >
> > Tommy wrote: "NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT?"
> >
> > I see you are up to your usual conniving, scheming, tricky ways Tommy boy. Inventing, making up something no one said and then yelling and screaming about it. Good job.
> And the bad news is that we're all assuming the debt of the United States.. It's not like the United States is making money selling magazines or something. It has to collect taxes to pay off its debt.
>

I doubt anyone except maybe maybe the Sports Illustrated swimsuit magazine makes any money selling magazines today. Although I'm not really sure how. Since anyone with money to spend on a magazine also has a smart phone and a laptop computer. So they can look at pretty girls in swimsuits, or not, anywhere and everywhere today.

> I pay an incredible amount of general taxes and self-employment tax to support welfare slags like Tom. We should have a Gofundme page for the US. We could put sad pictures of Tom on it: "Please, help this poor man. All he has are his old titanium bicycles and his unhinged ranting on a bicycle newsgroup. Only you can help. Donate today." https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/funny-sign21.jpg
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

On 10/15/2021 10:54 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I doubt anyone except maybe maybe the Sports Illustrated swimsuit magazine makes any money selling magazines today. Although I'm not really sure how. Since anyone with money to spend on a magazine also has a smart phone and a laptop computer. So they can look at pretty girls in swimsuits, or not, anywhere and everywhere today.

Magazines are making money. The proof of that is, magazines still exist.
In our local bookstore, there are well over 100 different ones on the
shelf for sale.

In fact, on our kitchen table are two recently arrived Free Samples, one
directed at my wife, one at me. They're willing to give an issue away
hoping to hook us using amazingly low subscription prices, less then $10
per year.

I think the key is, publishers don't make much money from the
subscriptions. They make money from the advertisers. But as with TV and
the internet, the ad income depends on the number of eyeballs they can
deliver to the ad men.

I've subscribed to certain magazines, then let the subscription lapse.
The magazines kept coming, along with warnings "Renew now! This is your
last copy!" then "This is _really_ your last copy!" and beyond. (Kind of
like the supposedly _Last Whole Earth Catalog_ of the 1970s.) I think
they didn't want to own up to a smaller subscriber count.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:11:44 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 3:55:48 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:19:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
> > > > >
> > > > >Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
> > > > >
> > > > >What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
> > > > >
> > > > >So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
> > > > >
> > > > >Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
> > > > >
> > > > >In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
> > > > >
> > > > >But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
> > > > >
> > > > >Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
> > > > >
> > > > >In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
> > > > >
> > > > >The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
> > > > The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
> > > > renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
> > > >
> > > > To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
> > > > "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
> > > > Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
> > > > and special funds.
> > > >
> > > > Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
> > > > corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
> > > > GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
> > > >
> > > > As for the national debt - well
> > > > "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
> > > > national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
> > > > accomplished"
> > > John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.
> > >
> > > Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.
> > ??????????
> >
> > Tommy wrote: "NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT?"
> >
> > I see you are up to your usual conniving, scheming, tricky ways Tommy boy. Inventing, making up something no one said and then yelling and screaming about it. Good job.
> And the bad news is that we're all assuming the debt of the United States.. It's not like the United States is making money selling magazines or something. It has to collect taxes to pay off its debt.
>
> I pay an incredible amount of general taxes and self-employment tax to support welfare slags like Tom. We should have a Gofundme page for the US. We could put sad pictures of Tom on it: "Please, help this poor man. All he has are his old titanium bicycles and his unhinged ranting on a bicycle newsgroup. Only you can help. Donate today." https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/funny-sign21.jpg

So what you're saying is that you don't contribute to the Social Security system?

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 9:43:47 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/15/2021 10:54 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > I doubt anyone except maybe maybe the Sports Illustrated swimsuit magazine makes any money selling magazines today. Although I'm not really sure how. Since anyone with money to spend on a magazine also has a smart phone and a laptop computer. So they can look at pretty girls in swimsuits, or not, anywhere and everywhere today.
> Magazines are making money. The proof of that is, magazines still exist.
> In our local bookstore, there are well over 100 different ones on the
> shelf for sale.
>
> In fact, on our kitchen table are two recently arrived Free Samples, one
> directed at my wife, one at me. They're willing to give an issue away
> hoping to hook us using amazingly low subscription prices, less then $10
> per year.
>
> I think the key is, publishers don't make much money from the
> subscriptions. They make money from the advertisers. But as with TV and
> the internet, the ad income depends on the number of eyeballs they can
> deliver to the ad men.
>
> I've subscribed to certain magazines, then let the subscription lapse.
> The magazines kept coming, along with warnings "Renew now! This is your
> last copy!" then "This is _really_ your last copy!" and beyond. (Kind of
> like the supposedly _Last Whole Earth Catalog_ of the 1970s.) I think
> they didn't want to own up to a smaller subscriber count.

They are making money, but not much. And they do it by hiring "journalists" who could barely write for the high school newspaper. Our local newspaper can't even correct spelling properly.

On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 12:43:43 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 10/15/2021 10:54 AM, russellseaton1@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> I doubt anyone except maybe maybe the Sports Illustrated swimsuit magazine makes any money selling magazines today. Although I'm not really sure how. Since anyone with money to spend on a magazine also has a smart phone and a laptop computer. So they can look at pretty girls in swimsuits, or not, anywhere and everywhere today.
>
>Magazines are making money. The proof of that is, magazines still exist.
>In our local bookstore, there are well over 100 different ones on the
>shelf for sale.
>
>In fact, on our kitchen table are two recently arrived Free Samples, one
>directed at my wife, one at me. They're willing to give an issue away
>hoping to hook us using amazingly low subscription prices, less then $10
>per year.
>
>I think the key is, publishers don't make much money from the
>subscriptions. They make money from the advertisers. But as with TV and
>the internet, the ad income depends on the number of eyeballs they can
>deliver to the ad men.
>
>I've subscribed to certain magazines, then let the subscription lapse.
>The magazines kept coming, along with warnings "Renew now! This is your
>last copy!" then "This is _really_ your last copy!" and beyond. (Kind of
>like the supposedly _Last Whole Earth Catalog_ of the 1970s.) I think
>they didn't want to own up to a smaller subscriber count.

I think that magazines, and newspapers, always made the bulk of their
profits from divertimenti.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 9:46:27 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:11:44 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 3:55:48 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:19:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > > > > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
> > > > > The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
> > > > > renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
> > > > >
> > > > > To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
> > > > > "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
> > > > > Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
> > > > > and special funds.
> > > > >
> > > > > Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
> > > > > corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
> > > > > GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
> > > > >
> > > > > As for the national debt - well
> > > > > "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
> > > > > national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
> > > > > accomplished"
> > > > John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.
> > > >
> > > > Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.
> > > ??????????
> > >
> > > Tommy wrote: "NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT?"
> > >
> > > I see you are up to your usual conniving, scheming, tricky ways Tommy boy. Inventing, making up something no one said and then yelling and screaming about it. Good job.
> > And the bad news is that we're all assuming the debt of the United States. It's not like the United States is making money selling magazines or something. It has to collect taxes to pay off its debt.
> >
> > I pay an incredible amount of general taxes and self-employment tax to support welfare slags like Tom. We should have a Gofundme page for the US. We could put sad pictures of Tom on it: "Please, help this poor man. All he has are his old titanium bicycles and his unhinged ranting on a bicycle newsgroup. Only you can help. Donate today." https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/funny-sign21.jpg
> So what you're saying is that you don't contribute to the Social Security system?

I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.

-- John Galt

On 10/15/2021 7:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 9:46:27 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:11:44 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 3:55:48 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:19:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
>>>>>> The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
>>>>>> renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
>>>>>> "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
>>>>>> Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
>>>>>> and special funds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
>>>>>> corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
>>>>>> GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the national debt - well
>>>>>> "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
>>>>>> national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
>>>>>> accomplished"
>>>>> John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.
>>>> ??????????
>>>>
>>>> Tommy wrote: "NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT?"
>>>>
>>>> I see you are up to your usual conniving, scheming, tricky ways Tommy boy. Inventing, making up something no one said and then yelling and screaming about it. Good job.
>>> And the bad news is that we're all assuming the debt of the United States. It's not like the United States is making money selling magazines or something. It has to collect taxes to pay off its debt.
>>>
>>> I pay an incredible amount of general taxes and self-employment tax to support welfare slags like Tom. We should have a Gofundme page for the US. We could put sad pictures of Tom on it: "Please, help this poor man. All he has are his old titanium bicycles and his unhinged ranting on a bicycle newsgroup. Only you can help. Donate today." https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/funny-sign21.jpg
>> So what you're saying is that you don't contribute to the Social Security system?
>
> I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.
>
> -- John Galt
>
>

+1

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 10/15/2021 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

> I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.

I just sent $4000+ to the IRS yesterday and I feel good knowing that
part of that money goes to help Tom.

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> On 10/15/2021 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.
> I just sent $4000+ to the IRS yesterday and I feel good knowing that
> part of that money goes to help Tom.
I notice that the likes of you cannot keep yourself from lying about anything and everything. I've said too many times to count that I had calculated at what point I would exceed my own contributions to the SS system and I will be 92 years old before that point and I am unlikely to live that long except for sheer spite to collect money from liars like you.

On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 6:40:54 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 10/15/2021 7:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 9:46:27 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:11:44 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 3:55:48 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:19:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U..S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
> >>>>>> The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
> >>>>>> renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
> >>>>>> "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
> >>>>>> Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
> >>>>>> and special funds.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
> >>>>>> corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
> >>>>>> GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As for the national debt - well
> >>>>>> "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
> >>>>>> national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
> >>>>>> accomplished"
> >>>>> John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.
> >>>> ??????????
> >>>>
> >>>> Tommy wrote: "NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT?"
> >>>>
> >>>> I see you are up to your usual conniving, scheming, tricky ways Tommy boy. Inventing, making up something no one said and then yelling and screaming about it. Good job.
> >>> And the bad news is that we're all assuming the debt of the United States. It's not like the United States is making money selling magazines or something. It has to collect taxes to pay off its debt.
> >>>
> >>> I pay an incredible amount of general taxes and self-employment tax to support welfare slags like Tom. We should have a Gofundme page for the US.. We could put sad pictures of Tom on it: "Please, help this poor man. All he has are his old titanium bicycles and his unhinged ranting on a bicycle newsgroup. Only you can help. Donate today." https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/funny-sign21.jpg
> >> So what you're saying is that you don't contribute to the Social Security system?
> >
> > I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.
> >
> > -- John Galt
> >
> >
> +1

Andrew, why would you feel that you're giving any of your own money to the SS system when you wouldn't be doing that unless you were employing someone in which case it is nothing more than additional salary.

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 1:33:35 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > On 10/15/2021 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.
> > I just sent $4000+ to the IRS yesterday and I feel good knowing that
> > part of that money goes to help Tom.
> I notice that the likes of you cannot keep yourself from lying about anything and everything. I've said too many times to count that I had calculated at what point I would exceed my own contributions to the SS system and I will be 92 years old before that point and I am unlikely to live that long except for sheer spite to collect money from liars like you.

Well that's wrong, particularly if you look at both SS benefits and Medicare. For a 2010 high-wage earner retiree, it is about a 4X difference on average between Medicare contributions and pay-out. Embrace socialism. You are being supported by current income earners such as myself.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/16/2021 3:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 6:40:54 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 10/15/2021 7:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 9:46:27 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:11:44 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 3:55:48 PM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:19:32 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 11:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are two portions of the national debt. The actual running expenses are referred to as Intragovernmental holdings. These are things such as running expenses of the departments of government and usually do not change much.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then there is the ACTUAL Debt of the government and that is called Debt Held By the Public. This is money that the government spent that it did not have.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What the SOB Democrats did was to combine these both so that it appeared that Obama wasn't actually spending as much money as he was.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So when Obama entered office he was handed a Debt Held by the Public of 5.11 Trillion by the Bush Administration. Actually Bush had only a DHbtP of 3.5 Trillion but a Democrat Congress was elected in his final two years that they started spending as if there was no tomorrow in a typical Democrat manner.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now when Obama was only THREE years into his presidency the debt he had run up was $10.4 Trillion and by the end of his second term it was $13.6 or nearly three times as much as when he entered office.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In actuality the Democrats in 10 years had quadrupled the national debt spending virtually every cent in the American treasury.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the financial geniuses here will claim differently because my numbers come directly from Debt to the Penny "An official website of the U.S. government" When people like Russy or FuzzyWuzzy or Jay can possibly lie about these things, that is exactly what they will do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Likewise, Trump started with the $13.5 Trillion debt and at the end of his term it was $16 Trillion or a growth of only 15% rather than the doubling and tripling of Obama.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In Biden's FIRST YEAR in office he has added and additional 28% to the national debt and he proposes tripling that in his first term.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Democrat don't like YOU to have your money. It is theirs and they intend to take it. By force if necessary.
>>>>>>>> The title of this post "Further lies of the left" might better be
>>>>>>>> renamed "Tommy's delusions" as he starts right out getting it wrong'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To quote his source, "treasury Direct"
>>>>>>>> "Intragovernmental Holdings are mostly made up of the Government
>>>>>>>> Account Series (GAS) held by government trust funds, revolving funds,
>>>>>>>> and special funds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Debt Held by the Public includes all federal debt held by individuals,
>>>>>>>> corporations, state and local governments, foreign governments, and
>>>>>>>> GAS deposit funds, such as the Thrift Savings Plan."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for the national debt - well
>>>>>>>> "On January 8, 1835, president Andrew Jackson paid off the entire
>>>>>>>> national debt, the only time in U.S. history that has been
>>>>>>>> accomplished"
>>>>>>> John, I realize that you feel the need to criticize anything I say, but the Debt to the Penny site has the total explanations and perhaps you might use that mighty ability of yours to find things on the Internet and actually read it rather than inventing anything you would like it to have meant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since you have never owned bonds why are you even pretending to have some sort of idea about them? NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT? Who do you suppose would every buy a government bond if they did? God, sometimes I simply cannot believe just how stupid you people actually are.
>>>>>> ??????????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tommy wrote: "NO BOND HOLDER ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DEBTS OF THE GOVERNMENT?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see you are up to your usual conniving, scheming, tricky ways Tommy boy. Inventing, making up something no one said and then yelling and screaming about it. Good job.
>>>>> And the bad news is that we're all assuming the debt of the United States. It's not like the United States is making money selling magazines or something. It has to collect taxes to pay off its debt.
>>>>>
>>>>> I pay an incredible amount of general taxes and self-employment tax to support welfare slags like Tom. We should have a Gofundme page for the US. We could put sad pictures of Tom on it: "Please, help this poor man. All he has are his old titanium bicycles and his unhinged ranting on a bicycle newsgroup. Only you can help. Donate today." https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/funny-sign21.jpg
>>>> So what you're saying is that you don't contribute to the Social Security system?
>>>
>>> I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.
>>>
>>> -- John Galt
>>>
>>>
>> +1
>
> Andrew, why would you feel that you're giving any of your own money to the SS system when you wouldn't be doing that unless you were employing someone in which case it is nothing more than additional salary.
>

If that's humor it went over my head. Let me tell you about
my home planet:

Yes, there's the deduction from 'employee compensation' for
SS/FICA (which is arguably just my payroll expense since the
employee never sees it anyway).

Then those amounts are matched. Plus WC and UC. Plus
insurance expense (Yes, employees do sue employers. All the
while).

Then the State gets into the game. Smaller numbers, but the
expenses are surely, painfully there.

Yes, I'm bitter after fifty years of funding The Welfare
State but I'm frankly on the light end of 'contributions'.
Larger employers pay ridiculously high proportions (not just
higher amounts, higher % of payroll) with additional layers
I do not (medical services, retirement plans, paid leave, on
and on)

Employers in several major cities pay a head tax above all
those, too. Note these expenses are all on payroll; not a
mention of the many and varied and deviously creative taxes
beyond employment.

I'm sure Mr Seaton could elucidate further.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 06:00:50 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think that magazines, and newspapers, always made the bulk of their
> profits from divertimenti.

The last magazine I subscribed to had an index to advertisers in the
back.

Once I bought a copy of Organic Gardening just to get the
advertisments. Alas, when I got it home, it was a special motor-tools
issue, and the advertisements were all the opposite of what I was
looking for. A hand-push cultivator, perhaps; I did buy my Culta-Eze
two-wheel hoe about that part of the century. It's still going
strong, and I would reccommend it highly if it were still being made.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On 10/16/2021 2:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:

<snip>

> Employers in several major cities pay a head tax above all those, too.
> Note these expenses are all on payroll; not a mention of the many and
> varied and deviously creative taxes beyond employment.

We had one City Council member that was advocating for a head tax for
large employers. It would have ended up applying to only one large fruit
company. I was not in favor of it, even though a similar head tax was
passed in neighboring Mountain View, that applied mainly to Google, and
Google did not oppose it.

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 2:01:36 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 1:33:35 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > > On 10/15/2021 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > > > I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.
> > > I just sent $4000+ to the IRS yesterday and I feel good knowing that
> > > part of that money goes to help Tom.
> > I notice that the likes of you cannot keep yourself from lying about anything and everything. I've said too many times to count that I had calculated at what point I would exceed my own contributions to the SS system and I will be 92 years old before that point and I am unlikely to live that long except for sheer spite to collect money from liars like you.
> Well that's wrong, particularly if you look at both SS benefits and Medicare. For a 2010 high-wage earner retiree, it is about a 4X difference on average between Medicare contributions and pay-out. Embrace socialism. You are being supported by current income earners such as myself.

Sorry stupid, Medicare is a Democrat institution. Social Security is not the same thing and we would be FAR ahead if it wasn't for Obama. Whether or not you like it, you WILL pay back the money I paid into the system. I have my own medical insurance. And I'm a veteran of foreign wars in case you're unaware of what that means.

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 5:47:22 p.m. UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 06:00:50 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I think that magazines, and newspapers, always made the bulk of their
> > profits from divertimenti.
> The last magazine I subscribed to had an index to advertisers in the
> back.
>
> Once I bought a copy of Organic Gardening just to get the
> advertisments. Alas, when I got it home, it was a special motor-tools
> issue, and the advertisements were all the opposite of what I was
> looking for. A hand-push cultivator, perhaps; I did buy my Culta-Eze
> two-wheel hoe about that part of the century. It's still going
> strong, and I would reccommend it highly if it were still being made.
>
> --
> Joy Beeson
> joy beeson at centurylink dot net
> http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

I gave up on magazines when they started to break up the articles and scatter bits and pieces of those articles throughout the advertising. That was decades ago.

Cheers

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 3:48:02 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 2:01:36 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 1:33:35 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > > > On 10/15/2021 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.
> > > > I just sent $4000+ to the IRS yesterday and I feel good knowing that
> > > > part of that money goes to help Tom.
> > > I notice that the likes of you cannot keep yourself from lying about anything and everything. I've said too many times to count that I had calculated at what point I would exceed my own contributions to the SS system and I will be 92 years old before that point and I am unlikely to live that long except for sheer spite to collect money from liars like you.
> > Well that's wrong, particularly if you look at both SS benefits and Medicare. For a 2010 high-wage earner retiree, it is about a 4X difference on average between Medicare contributions and pay-out. Embrace socialism. You are being supported by current income earners such as myself.
> Sorry stupid, Medicare is a Democrat institution. Social Security is not the same thing and we would be FAR ahead if it wasn't for Obama. Whether or not you like it, you WILL pay back the money I paid into the system. I have my own medical insurance. And I'm a veteran of foreign wars in case you're unaware of what that means.

Social Security and Medicare are "Democrat institutions." You have Medicare -- either classic, advantage or classic with a medi-gap plan. If you are buying pure private insurance, you're a total idiot -- plus you couldn't afford it. Income earners such as myself are paying both your Medicare expense and your Veterans benefits. You served during the Viet Nam war era (assuming you served in '64-72), so yes you are a war-era veteran, which entitles you to certain enhanced benefits, regardless of the fact that you did not fight in Viet Nam -- which is O.K., it was a stupid war. You can get a nice burial plot at a veteran's cemetery, and a funeral with an MP3 playing taps. Been there done that with my father-in-law, who was in Patton's Third Army, Battle of the Bulge and all that.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 5:48:02 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 2:01:36 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 1:33:35 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > > > On 10/15/2021 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.
> > > > I just sent $4000+ to the IRS yesterday and I feel good knowing that
> > > > part of that money goes to help Tom.
> > > I notice that the likes of you cannot keep yourself from lying about anything and everything. I've said too many times to count that I had calculated at what point I would exceed my own contributions to the SS system and I will be 92 years old before that point and I am unlikely to live that long except for sheer spite to collect money from liars like you.
> > Well that's wrong, particularly if you look at both SS benefits and Medicare. For a 2010 high-wage earner retiree, it is about a 4X difference on average between Medicare contributions and pay-out. Embrace socialism. You are being supported by current income earners such as myself.
> Sorry stupid, Medicare is a Democrat institution. Social Security is not the same thing and we would be FAR ahead if it wasn't for Obama. Whether or not you like it, you WILL pay back the money I paid into the system. I have my own medical insurance. And I'm a veteran of foreign wars in case you're unaware of what that means.

Yes Tommy boy. Lyndon Johnson Democrat passed Medicare in mid 1965.

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 7:07:43 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
> On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 3:48:02 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 2:01:36 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 1:33:35 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > > > > On 10/15/2021 5:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > I contribute far too much. Unlike you, I haven't been a W-2 employee for >25 years and pay both sides with self-employment taxes, and I pay employer-side FICA for our employees, at least my share of it. Anyone who owns a business pays a lot into the Social Security system -- among other systems (health, retirement, disability, etc., etc.). Slackers like you just pretended to work and got paid every two weeks.
> > > > > I just sent $4000+ to the IRS yesterday and I feel good knowing that
> > > > > part of that money goes to help Tom.
> > > > I notice that the likes of you cannot keep yourself from lying about anything and everything. I've said too many times to count that I had calculated at what point I would exceed my own contributions to the SS system and I will be 92 years old before that point and I am unlikely to live that long except for sheer spite to collect money from liars like you.
> > > Well that's wrong, particularly if you look at both SS benefits and Medicare. For a 2010 high-wage earner retiree, it is about a 4X difference on average between Medicare contributions and pay-out. Embrace socialism. You are being supported by current income earners such as myself.
> > Sorry stupid, Medicare is a Democrat institution. Social Security is not the same thing and we would be FAR ahead if it wasn't for Obama. Whether or not you like it, you WILL pay back the money I paid into the system. I have my own medical insurance. And I'm a veteran of foreign wars in case you're unaware of what that means.
> Social Security and Medicare are "Democrat institutions." You have Medicare -- either classic, advantage or classic with a medi-gap plan. If you are buying pure private insurance, you're a total idiot -- plus you couldn't afford it. Income earners such as myself are paying both your Medicare expense and your Veterans benefits. You served during the Viet Nam war era (assuming you served in '64-72), so yes you are a war-era veteran, which entitles you to certain enhanced benefits, regardless of the fact that you did not fight in Viet Nam -- which is O.K., it was a stupid war. You can get a nice burial plot at a veteran's cemetery, and a funeral with an MP3 playing taps. Been there done that with my father-in-law, who was in Patton's Third Army, Battle of the Bulge and all that.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

I had an uncle, now deceased, who did officially serve IN Vietnam in the US army. IN Vietnam. Another uncle, who is still fortunately still alive, who joined the Navy in the 1970s so he would not get drafted into the army and end up in Vietnam. He has told me he qualifies officially as a Vietnam era veteran and gets special benefits. Whatever those are. My Dad served in the army in the mid 1950s. Officially he was stationed OUTSIDE of the United States of America because he was stationed to the Alaskan TERRITORY. Before Alaska became a state. I am very glad my Dad did not serve in the Korean conflict. We make heroes out of war heroes. But I don't think fighting and killing is a good thing overall. It would be better to not have wars.