On 11/4/2021 7:04 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>
> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
> happened.
>
> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
> provable case to the courts.

I've avoided this discussion almost entirely, but I'll wade into it briefly.

I don't think the issue is whether there was "voter fraud" (the current
label for votes that legally should not have been counted) in any given
election. I think _some_ "voter fraud" occurs in all large elections.
Some such votes are inadvertent (so, not really "fraud") and some few
are deliberate.

The issue is, did enough "voter fraud" occur to change the results of an
election? And I think those claiming that happened with Trump's defeat
are absolute whackos - or are taking advantage of the whackos to tilt
future playing fields.

It's pretty obvious that Tom is one of the whackos.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 07:27:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 9:37:06 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I had to guess at the number of bus riders. So, I Googled for the
>> number of passengers in a full size chartered bus. Click "Read More"
>> under "How many seats are on a charter bus?":
>> <https://escotbuslines.com/charter-bus-frequently-asked-questions/>
>> "Our smallest charter bus has 38 climate-controlled
>> seats amongst other amenity choices such as Wi-Fi. The
>> next size up is our spacious 47 seat charter bus. Our
>> largest charter bus can accommodate up to 56 people in
>> a luxurious, deluxe motor coach fully equipped with 56
>> climate-controlled seats."

>City | Transit Buses have average lengths of 39’2” (11.95 m), widths of 8’4” (2.55 m), heights of 9’10” (2.99 m), and have a capacity of 29 (+1) seats with standing room for 76.
>Why is this at odds with your claims? What is 29 + 76?

Municipal transit buses are normally NOT available for rent or
charter. That's what charter bus rentals are for. Of course, since
you witnessed the event, you should be able to identify the owner or
operator of the bus that unloaded at your San Leandro voting location.
I'll make it simple. What color was the bus? You should be able to
remember that.

You seem to have forgotten to cite the source of your bus dimension.
Obviously, you didn't read what I wrote. Here it is again:

>> I had to guess at the number of bus riders. So, I Googled for the
>> number of passengers in a full size chartered bus. Click "Read More"
>> under "How many seats are on a charter bus?":
>> <https://escotbuslines.com/charter-bus-frequently-asked-questions/>
>> "Our smallest charter bus has 38 climate-controlled
>> seats amongst other amenity choices such as Wi-Fi. The
>> next size up is our spacious 47 seat charter bus. Our
>> largest charter bus can accommodate up to 56 people in
>> a luxurious, deluxe motor coach fully equipped with 56
>> climate-controlled seats."

Note that this charter bus service is in Florida. If you are unable
to operate Google for some reason, this should help you find a
California source:
<https://lmgtfy.app/?q=California+charter+bus+number+of+passengers>

This looks useful:
<https://gogocharters.com/blog/complete-guide-charter-bus-rentals/>
Click on "1. Seats". Notice the chart. Number of seats for their
buses are 47, 55, and 56.

[ 12 minutes down the drain teaching Tom how to provide sources and
how to search with Google. ]

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 8:06:17 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 07:27:37 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 9:37:06 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> I had to guess at the number of bus riders. So, I Googled for the
> >> number of passengers in a full size chartered bus. Click "Read More"
> >> under "How many seats are on a charter bus?":
> >> <https://escotbuslines.com/charter-bus-frequently-asked-questions/>
> >> "Our smallest charter bus has 38 climate-controlled
> >> seats amongst other amenity choices such as Wi-Fi. The
> >> next size up is our spacious 47 seat charter bus. Our
> >> largest charter bus can accommodate up to 56 people in
> >> a luxurious, deluxe motor coach fully equipped with 56
> >> climate-controlled seats."
> >City | Transit Buses have average lengths of 39’2” (11.95 m), widths of 8’4” (2.55 m), heights of 9’10” (2.99 m), and have a capacity of 29 (+1) seats with standing room for 76.
> >Why is this at odds with your claims? What is 29 + 76?
> Municipal transit buses are normally NOT available for rent or
> charter. That's what charter bus rentals are for. Of course, since
> you witnessed the event, you should be able to identify the owner or
> operator of the bus that unloaded at your San Leandro voting location.
> I'll make it simple. What color was the bus? You should be able to
> remember that.
>
> You seem to have forgotten to cite the source of your bus dimension.
> Obviously, you didn't read what I wrote. Here it is again:
> >> I had to guess at the number of bus riders. So, I Googled for the
> >> number of passengers in a full size chartered bus. Click "Read More"
> >> under "How many seats are on a charter bus?":
> >> <https://escotbuslines.com/charter-bus-frequently-asked-questions/>
> >> "Our smallest charter bus has 38 climate-controlled
> >> seats amongst other amenity choices such as Wi-Fi. The
> >> next size up is our spacious 47 seat charter bus. Our
> >> largest charter bus can accommodate up to 56 people in
> >> a luxurious, deluxe motor coach fully equipped with 56
> >> climate-controlled seats."
> Note that this charter bus service is in Florida. If you are unable
> to operate Google for some reason, this should help you find a
> California source:
> <https://lmgtfy.app/?q=California+charter+bus+number+of+passengers>
>
> This looks useful:
> <https://gogocharters.com/blog/complete-guide-charter-bus-rentals/>
> Click on "1. Seats". Notice the chart. Number of seats for their
> buses are 47, 55, and 56.
>
> [ 12 minutes down the drain teaching Tom how to provide sources and
> how to search with Google. ]

Why are you being stupid? Firstly it was a SCHOOL bus and those responsible for this couldn't care less how comfortable illegal aliens were. You couldn't care less that the poll workers complained so much about this massive election fraud that they move the polling place to the Police Service Yard to discourage this sort of massive fraud. Illegals are FAR less likely to appear in front of a police presence. Also those responsible for this are equally afraid of being caught at it which would end in extensive prison time.

Would you mind telling me why you're even ARGUING about something you don't know a thing about? Something you have to invent an entire scenario to explain away as if it was impossible despite it having occurred? Exactly what sort of sick mind do you have? You haven't voted in how many years?

And then again to enshrine voter fraud for the Democrats to maintain power they ELIMINATED you putting your own ballot in a counting machine. After the 2018 election which showed advancement of actual community people, they HAD to do something to stop Trump's re-election. So beside eliminating the vote counting machines and mass mailings of ballots to hide voter fraud, they moved the polling places FAR away from where they had been from inside of the neighborhood they served to 3 miles away and in a location difficult to find in the back of a lot behind an exercise center. They also supplied SUITCASES with a slot in top to place ballots and hauled these out of the poll to a remote location where ballots containing what they decided were acceptable were kept and others disappeared.

You, like most far left whackos believe that crime in the pursuit of your ambitions is perfectly moral. That only elections that result in your desired outcome should be acceptable. You reap what you sow.

On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
>>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
>>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
>>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
>>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
>>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
>>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
>>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
>>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
>>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
>>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
>>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
>>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
>>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
>>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
>>>>
>>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
>>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
>>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
>>>> one way or other like in Europe?
>>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
>>>
>>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed t
hat
>>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
>>>
>>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
>>>
>>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
>> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
>> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
>> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
>> happened.
>>
>> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
>> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
>> provable case to the courts.
> https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
>

not only:
https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 9:33:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> >>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
> >>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
> >>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
> >>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
> >>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
> >>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
> >>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
> >>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
> >>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
> >>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
> >>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
> >>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
> >>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
> >>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
> >>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
> >>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
> >>>>
> >>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
> >>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
> >>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
> >>>> one way or other like in Europe?
> >>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
> >>>
> >>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot.. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley.. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed t
> hat
> >>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes.. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
> >>>
> >>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
> >>>
> >>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
> >> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
> >> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
> >> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
> >> happened.
> >>
> >> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
> >> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
> >> provable case to the courts.
> > https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
> >
> not only:
> https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html

Well, people that are happy with the state of things always believe that they are in the right despite strong evidence to the contrary. We see Jeff inventing things that are provably wrong. This wasn't MY claim but those of the poll workers. But he simply invents a world devoid of reality.

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> >>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
> >>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
> >>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
> >>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
> >>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
> >>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
> >>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
> >>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
> >>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
> >>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
> >>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
> >>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
> >>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
> >>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
> >>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
> >>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
> >>>>
> >>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
> >>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
> >>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
> >>>> one way or other like in Europe?
> >>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
> >>>
> >>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot.. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley.. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed t
> hat
> >>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes.. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
> >>>
> >>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
> >>>
> >>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
> >> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
> >> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
> >> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
> >> happened.
> >>
> >> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
> >> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
> >> provable case to the courts.
> > https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
> >
> not only:
> https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Um, 8 people in a nursing home voted without a special deputy being sent, after getting approval from the Wisconsin Elections Commission.

It is possible the election commission overstepped their authority to grant the exception, I dunno.

But if this is the most serious case of election "fraud" anyone can find, then maybe there's no "there" there.

On 11/5/2021 2:16 PM, Tim R wrote:
> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
>>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
>>>>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
>>>>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
>>>>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
>>>>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
>>>>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
>>>>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
>>>>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
>>>>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
>>>>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
>>>>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
>>>>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
>>>>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
>>>>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
>>>>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
>>>>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
>>>>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
>>>>>> one way or other like in Europe?
>>>>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed t
>> hat
>>>>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
>>>>>
>>>>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
>>>> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
>>>> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
>>>> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
>>>> happened.
>>>>
>>>> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
>>>> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
>>>> provable case to the courts.
>>> https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
>>>
>> not only:
>> https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
> Um, 8 people in a nursing home voted without a special deputy being sent, after getting approval from the Wisconsin Elections Commission.
>
> It is possible the election commission overstepped their authority to grant the exception, I dunno.
>
> But if this is the most serious case of election "fraud" anyone can find, then maybe there's no "there" there.
+1

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:28:10 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 11/5/2021 2:16 PM, Tim R wrote:
> > On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> >>>>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> >>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
> >>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
> >>>>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
> >>>>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
> >>>>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
> >>>>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
> >>>>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
> >>>>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
> >>>>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
> >>>>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
> >>>>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
> >>>>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
> >>>>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
> >>>>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
> >>>>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
> >>>>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
> >>>>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
> >>>>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
> >>>>>> one way or other like in Europe?
> >>>>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed t
> >> hat
> >>>>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
> >>>> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
> >>>> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
> >>>> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
> >>>> happened.
> >>>>
> >>>> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
> >>>> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
> >>>> provable case to the courts.
> >>> https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
> >>>
> >> not only:
> >> https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html
> >> --
> >> Andrew Muzi
> >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> >
> > Um, 8 people in a nursing home voted without a special deputy being sent, after getting approval from the Wisconsin Elections Commission.
> >
> > It is possible the election commission overstepped their authority to grant the exception, I dunno.
> >
> > But if this is the most serious case of election "fraud" anyone can find, then maybe there's no "there" there.
> +1

We've had vote by mail for 30 years in Oregon -- 20 years for presidential primaries. No evidence of wide-spread voter fraud, and even the conservatives east of the Cascades overwhelmingly support it, probably so they don't have to drive a million miles to the nearest voting place. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b8/f1/ec/b8f1ec280162c4e23c03d4753db84d69.jpg https://journals.shareok.org/arp/article/view/297

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 11:16:45 AM UTC-7, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > >> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > >>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > >>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
> > >>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
> > >>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
> > >>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
> > >>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
> > >>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
> > >>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
> > >>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
> > >>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
> > >>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
> > >>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
> > >>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
> > >>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
> > >>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
> > >>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
> > >>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
> > >>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
> > >>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
> > >>>> one way or other like in Europe?
> > >>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
> > >>>
> > >>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed t
> > hat
> > >>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
> > >>>
> > >>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
> > >> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
> > >> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
> > >> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
> > >> happened.
> > >>
> > >> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
> > >> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
> > >> provable case to the courts.
> > > https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
> > >
> > not only:
> > https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> Um, 8 people in a nursing home voted without a special deputy being sent, after getting approval from the Wisconsin Elections Commission.
>
> It is possible the election commission overstepped their authority to grant the exception, I dunno.
>
> But if this is the most serious case of election "fraud" anyone can find, then maybe there's no "there" there.
Audits in three states have found winner changing fraud. This latest New Jersey finding of 12,000 vote all for the Democrat incumbent in the middle of the night is another example of fraud on a galactic scale. Were those 8 people even aware that their names were on ballots?

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:50:20 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:28:10 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 11/5/2021 2:16 PM, Tim R wrote:
> > > On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:33:13 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
> > >>>> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> > >>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > >>>>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
> > >>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
> > >>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
> > >>>>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
> > >>>>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
> > >>>>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
> > >>>>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
> > >>>>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
> > >>>>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
> > >>>>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
> > >>>>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
> > >>>>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
> > >>>>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
> > >>>>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
> > >>>>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
> > >>>>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
> > >>>>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
> > >>>>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
> > >>>>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
> > >>>>>> one way or other like in Europe?
> > >>>>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem.. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed t
> > >> hat
> > >>>>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
> > >>>> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
> > >>>> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
> > >>>> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
> > >>>> happened.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
> > >>>> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
> > >>>> provable case to the courts.
> > >>> https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
> > >>>
> > >> not only:
> > >> https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html
> > >> --
> > >> Andrew Muzi
> > >> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > >> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > >
> > > Um, 8 people in a nursing home voted without a special deputy being sent, after getting approval from the Wisconsin Elections Commission.
> > >
> > > It is possible the election commission overstepped their authority to grant the exception, I dunno.
> > >
> > > But if this is the most serious case of election "fraud" anyone can find, then maybe there's no "there" there.
> > +1
> We've had vote by mail for 30 years in Oregon -- 20 years for presidential primaries. No evidence of wide-spread voter fraud, and even the conservatives east of the Cascades overwhelmingly support it, probably so they don't have to drive a million miles to the nearest voting place. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b8/f1/ec/b8f1ec280162c4e23c03d4753db84d69.jpg https://journals.shareok.org/arp/article/view/297

Jay, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with voting by mail if you can verify that the voter is a legal voter. Mass mailings of ballots is nothing more than a setup for election fraud and the audits have shown that that is exactly what occurred.

On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 07:21:48 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> >> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
>> >> > On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>> >> >> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
>> >> >> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
>> >> >>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
>> >> >>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
>> >> >>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
>> >> >> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
>> >> >> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
>> >> >> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
>> >> >> becoming weirder and weirder.
>> >> >
>> >> > Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
>> >> > suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
>> >> > nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
>> >> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
>> >> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
>> >> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
>> >> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
>> >> destroying the Democrat lead again.
>> >>
>> >> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
>> >> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
>> >> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
>> >> one way or other like in Europe?
>> >Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
>> >
>> >As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed
>that
>> >but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
>> >
>> >Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
>> >
>> >Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
>> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
>> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
>> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
>> happened.
>>
>> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
>> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
>> provable case to the courts.
>https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm

A little more rational report tells us that:
Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson last year said local clerks
should start with a presumption of validity when verifying signatures
on absentee ballot applications, but a court ruling says that rule
wasn’t properly established.

A Michigan Court of Claims judge last week ruled that clerks no longer
need to follow those instructions for determining whether to send an
absentee ballot to applicants.

Which, it might be added, is hardly proof of voter fraud so the score
is still 40 - 0 in favor of the Democrats.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 11:33:07 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
>>>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
>>>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
>>>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
>>>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
>>>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
>>>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
>>>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
>>>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
>>>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
>>>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
>>>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
>>>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
>>>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
>>>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
>>>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
>>>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
>>>>> one way or other like in Europe?
>>>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
>>>>
>>>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed t
>hat
>>>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
>>>>
>>>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
>>>>
>>>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
>>> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
>>> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
>>> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
>>> happened.
>>>
>>> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
>>> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
>>> provable case to the courts.
>> https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
>>
>
>
>not only:
>https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html

Yup, 2 republicans and 3 Democrats. which makes the Demo's a tiny bit
more reprehensible then the Repubs.

But, as the Good Book says, " Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
the mote out of thy brother's eye"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 11/5/2021 8:28 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 11:33:07 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
>>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
>>>>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
>>>>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
>>>>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
>>>>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
>>>>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
>>>>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
>>>>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
>>>>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
>>>>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
>>>>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
>>>>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
>>>>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
>>>>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
>>>>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
>>>>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
>>>>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
>>>>>> one way or other like in Europe?
>>>>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed
t
>> hat
>>>>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
>>>>>
>>>>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
>>>> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
>>>> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
>>>> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
>>>> happened.
>>>>
>>>> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
>>>> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
>>>> provable case to the courts.
>>> https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
>>>
>>
>>
>> not only:
>> https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html
>
> Yup, 2 republicans and 3 Democrats. which makes the Demo's a tiny bit
> more reprehensible then the Repubs.
>
> But, as the Good Book says, " Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
> beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
> the mote out of thy brother's eye"
>

Well, if you're going to cite scripture, "Ye shall know them
by their works"

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/PfMBrUnDyXk7sOLjMZPyow--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTcwNTtoPTQ5Nw--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/zX5Dnxxvx0TGAOrlKnVmfw--~B/aD0yMTQwO3c9MzAzNDthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/milwaukee-journal-sentinel/9ad7094a6737ea037e98519d0c7eb8f6

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 20:53:16 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/5/2021 8:28 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 11:33:07 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/5/2021 9:21 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:04:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 7:57:33 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>>> Am 04.11.2021 um 15:43 schrieb Tom Kunich:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 2:37:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 12:32:03 AM UTC,
>>>>>>>>> jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Full disclosure: I volunteered and worked mostly validating
>>>>>>>>>> petition signatures and checking vote counts from about 1981 to
>>>>>>>>>> 1989. Like jury duty, it's an interesting experience that should
>>>>>>>>>> be required before any criticism can be taken seriously.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Uh-huh. I've worked in several US elections, though at a somewhat
>>>>>>>>> more isolated level and long ago, as I've worked in elections in
>>>>>>>>> other parts of the world, sometimes to such good effect that I was
>>>>>>>>> asked to stay and enter politics. Today American politics is
>>>>>>>>> becoming weirder and weirder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you mean like the New Jersey Election when the Democrat was losing
>>>>>>>> suddenly an entire bundle of Democrat only votes appeared out of
>>>>>>>> nowhere? New Jersey politics at its best.
>>>>>>> From what I read, it was more like "the election was extremely close,
>>>>>>> then a long-counting "democrat only" district returned the result,
>>>>>>> giving the Democrat candidate a large push.
>>>>>>> Then a long-counting "Republican only" district returned the result,
>>>>>>> destroying the Democrat lead again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Extremely suspicious, I have to say. Whose Gerrymandering was
>>>>>>> responsible for most electoral districts being so extremely loaded for
>>>>>>> one party or the other rather than all districts being similarly 60-40
>>>>>>> one way or other like in Europe?
>>>>>> Well, in general population centers vote Democrat because it is easier for the machine to operate there undetected. It is much harder in the suburbs and people know each other and how they think. So suburban areas usually vote conservative. So Gerrymandering really isn't that big a problem. The real problem is election fraud and if there were voter ID laws this would disappear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I noted before - on Obama's 2nd election, I was the first one to the polls in the morning. When I came out there was a BUS there that had brought and entire load of illegal aliens who all had a piece of paper with a name on it they were supposed to vote under. They had to HAND the election workers these papers because most of them were illiterate and couldn't even read the names they were supposed to vote under. There was such a load that the one person who could speak Spanish couldn't handle it and they had to bring in Translators. Then since these people were illiterate they couldn't read the voting instructions and the translators had to go into the booth with them and show them how to put a line between the space between two side lines. They ONLY wanted to vote for Obama and that was a six page ballot. Then they all got back on the bus and disappeared into the central valley. This was so outrageous that they moved the polling place to the Police Service Yard. That fixed
> t
>>> hat
>>>>>> but to counter that they stopped using the vote counting machines and instead started using suitcases with a slot in top. Microsoft and Dell paid to load the poll workers with far left workers who hand counted the votes. The people in the polls were honest enough but the ballots were all sent to a central location for counting with NO observation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now California has enshrined the practice of mass mailings of ballots so that the voters themselves cannot be legalized. We can never again expect a legal election of any sort in California.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Election audits in other states have shown massive Democrat election fraud. As I said - Jay, Flunkmeister and Pencilneck all approve of election fraud in the name of socialism. I hope they get their fondest dreams AFTER I'm gone so that they can discover for themselves the firing squad that awaits those who thought themselves due an exalted position and complain when none was presented.
>>>>> Nope Tommy, it isn't just your detractors that "approve" of voter
>>>>> fraud. there have been something like 40 claims made to various
>>>>> courts, through out the U.S. None of which have ruled that voter fraud
>>>>> happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> So apparently we have one of two alternates. (1) Voter Fraud never
>>>>> occurred, or (2) Republicans are too stupid to be able to bring a
>>>>> provable case to the courts.
>>>> https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/11193/20210318/voter-fraud-trump-vindicated-by-michigan-court-ruling-saying-secretary-of-state-broke-law-on-absentee-ballots.htm
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> not only:
>>> https://chippewa.com/news/state-and-regional/racine-county-sheriff-recommends-charges-for-5-wisconsin-elections-commissioners/article_9cda3654-f7a2-5d69-aad2-335d34b06fd7.html
>>
>> Yup, 2 republicans and 3 Democrats. which makes the Demo's a tiny bit
>> more reprehensible then the Repubs.
>>
>> But, as the Good Book says, " Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
>> beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
>> the mote out of thy brother's eye"
>>
>
>Well, if you're going to cite scripture, "Ye shall know them
>by their works"
>
Actually, I believe that the quotation is

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but
inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or
figs of thistles?"
and goes on to say
"Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast
into the fire"
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Which is what happened. Didn't it.

--
Cheers,

John B.