They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful. The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college education. Seems that they appreciate learning through doing which Frank is absolutely opposed to. Franks thinks that the bike he rides which looks like it came from 1920, should be designed by someone with a PhD.

Well, his feelings must be really hurt by Felt being rated one of the best American bikes. Why, they don't have rack mounts!

On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful. The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college education. Seems that they appreciate learning through doing which Frank is absolutely opposed to. Franks thinks that the bike he rides which looks like it came from 1920, should be designed by someone with a PhD.
>
>Well, his feelings must be really hurt by Felt being rated one of the best American bikes. Why, they don't have rack mounts!

But Tommy, Felt bikes are made in Asia... not the U.S.
https://bikexchange.com/bike-brands/felt-bicycles-review/
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful.

I don't know where you're getting the information that everyone is
starting their own business after they quit. Applications for new
business licenses certainly have increased, but the increase doesn't
cover the number that quit:
"BUSINESS FORMATION STATISTICS, OCTOBER 2021"
<https://www.census.gov/econ/bfs/pdf/bfs_current.pdf>
See graph on Pg 4. Oddly, the bulk of the startups are in retail,
which is also the sector that's having the most problems due to low
paying jobs. I'm not certain, but my guess(tm) is that the bulk of
these retail startups are where the former owner sells what's left of
the store to the employees.

According to the US Burro of Laborious Statistics, the average churn
is 3.0%/month.
<https://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.t04.htm>
Therefore, after about 33 months (a little less than 3 years),
EVERYONE will have quit their current jobs, gone into business for
themselves, and are living happily every after. Privatize the nation.
I like the concept. More on job turnover:
<https://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.toc.htm>

>The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college
>education.

None? All college graduates are staying on at their present employers
while non-graduates are starting new businesses? I don't think so:
"Another 3.9 million people quit their jobs in June and many are
getting higher-paying roles"
<https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/another-3point9-million-people-quit-their-jobs-in-june.html>
While average wage growth for all workers increased
just 1.5% in June compared to a year ago, it’s up
by 5.8% for job-switchers...
Just follow the money, which should be a clue.

Anyway, if you really want a college diploma, just print your own fake
diploma:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+college+diploma&tbm=isch>
Since you claim to be able to do almost everything, you should have no
difficulty convincing any doubters that it's a real diploma.

Or, just get the T-Shirt:
<https://www.spreadshirt.com/shop/men/clothing/college+diploma/>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 2:28:46 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful. The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college education. Seems that they appreciate learning through doing which Frank is absolutely opposed to. Franks thinks that the bike he rides which looks like it came from 1920, should be designed by someone with a PhD.
> >
> >Well, his feelings must be really hurt by Felt being rated one of the best American bikes. Why, they don't have rack mounts!
> But Tommy, Felt bikes are made in Asia... not the U.S.
> https://bikexchange.com/bike-brands/felt-bicycles-review/

Perhaps you can point to me where I ever said that their carbon fiber bikes were made in America? You simply cannot hold yourself back from making stupid comments where ever you think you have some sort of opening? Is it your belief that Felt is a Chinese owned company?

On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 9:08:37 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful.
> I don't know where you're getting the information that everyone is
> starting their own business after they quit. Applications for new
> business licenses certainly have increased, but the increase doesn't
> cover the number that quit:
> "BUSINESS FORMATION STATISTICS, OCTOBER 2021"
> <https://www.census.gov/econ/bfs/pdf/bfs_current.pdf>
> See graph on Pg 4. Oddly, the bulk of the startups are in retail,
> which is also the sector that's having the most problems due to low
> paying jobs. I'm not certain, but my guess(tm) is that the bulk of
> these retail startups are where the former owner sells what's left of
> the store to the employees.
>
> According to the US Burro of Laborious Statistics, the average churn
> is 3.0%/month.
> <https://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.t04.htm>
> Therefore, after about 33 months (a little less than 3 years),
> EVERYONE will have quit their current jobs, gone into business for
> themselves, and are living happily every after. Privatize the nation.
> I like the concept. More on job turnover:
> <https://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.toc.htm>
> >The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college
> >education.
> None? All college graduates are staying on at their present employers
> while non-graduates are starting new businesses? I don't think so:
> "Another 3.9 million people quit their jobs in June and many are
> getting higher-paying roles"
> <https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/another-3point9-million-people-quit-their-jobs-in-june.html>
> While average wage growth for all workers increased
> just 1.5% in June compared to a year ago, it’s up
> by 5.8% for job-switchers...
> Just follow the money, which should be a clue.
>
> Anyway, if you really want a college diploma, just print your own fake
> diploma:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+college+diploma&tbm=isch>
> Since you claim to be able to do almost everything, you should have no
> difficulty convincing any doubters that it's a real diploma.
>
> Or, just get the T-Shirt:
> <https://www.spreadshirt.com/shop/men/clothing/college+diploma/>

You certainly are spending a great deal of time writing "I don't know" or "I'm not certain" (which is Jeff for "I don't know shit but will show it to everyone") You certainly are clever to think that if a new business is founded that it only employs a single person. It sort of really demonstrates the level of your intelligence for all to see and laugh at.

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 08:21:12 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 2:28:46 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful. The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college education. Seems that they appreciate learning through doing which Frank is absolutely opposed to. Franks thinks that the bike he rides which looks like it came from 1920, should be designed by someone with a PhD.
>> >
>> >Well, his feelings must be really hurt by Felt being rated one of the best American bikes. Why, they don't have rack mounts!
>> But Tommy, Felt bikes are made in Asia... not the U.S.
>> https://bikexchange.com/bike-brands/felt-bicycles-review/
>
>Perhaps you can point to me where I ever said that their carbon fiber bikes were made in America? You simply cannot hold yourself back from making stupid comments where ever you think you have some sort of opening? Is it your belief that Felt is a Chinese owned company?

No, you said "Felt being rated one of the best American bikes" and I
said that they were made in Asia. What is where a company is
incorporated have to do with it?

Honda Motor Co., Inc. was established in Los Angeles, California in
1959, so Honda is an "American company"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/2/2021 4:30 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 08:21:12 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 2:28:46 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful. The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college education. Seems that they appreciate learning through doing which Frank is absolutely opposed to. Franks thinks that the bike he rides which looks like it came from 1920, should be designed by someone with a PhD.
>>>>
>>>> Well, his feelings must be really hurt by Felt being rated one of the best American bikes. Why, they don't have rack mounts!
>>> But Tommy, Felt bikes are made in Asia... not the U.S.
>>> https://bikexchange.com/bike-brands/felt-bicycles-review/
>>
>> Perhaps you can point to me where I ever said that their carbon fiber bikes were made in America? You simply cannot hold yourself back from making stupid comments where ever you think you have some sort of opening? Is it your belief that Felt is a Chinese owned company?
>
> No, you said "Felt being rated one of the best American bikes" and I
> said that they were made in Asia. What is where a company is
> incorporated have to do with it?
>
> Honda Motor Co., Inc. was established in Los Angeles, California in
> 1959, so Honda is an "American company"?
>

You're right about Felt but these things can be
counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.

Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in
US of A:
https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 02 Dec 2021 17:22:49 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/2/2021 4:30 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 08:21:12 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 2:28:46 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful. The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college education. Seems that they appreciate learning through doing which Frank is absolutely opposed to. Franks thinks that the bike he rides which looks like it came from 1920, should be designed by someone with a PhD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, his feelings must be really hurt by Felt being rated one of the best American bikes. Why, they don't have rack mounts!
>>>> But Tommy, Felt bikes are made in Asia... not the U.S.
>>>> https://bikexchange.com/bike-brands/felt-bicycles-review/
>>>
>>> Perhaps you can point to me where I ever said that their carbon fiber bikes were made in America? You simply cannot hold yourself back from making stupid comments where ever you think you have some sort of opening? Is it your belief that Felt is a Chinese owned company?
>>
>> No, you said "Felt being rated one of the best American bikes" and I
>> said that they were made in Asia. What is where a company is
>> incorporated have to do with it?
>>
>> Honda Motor Co., Inc. was established in Los Angeles, California in
>> 1959, so Honda is an "American company"?
>>
>
>You're right about Felt but these things can be
>counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
>the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.

Well, sort of. The Camry is manufactured in Japan, the United States,
Russia, Thailand, Malaysia, India, and Vietnam (:-)

>Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in
>US of A:
>https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:

<snip>

> You're right about Felt but these things can be counterintuitive. For
> several years the motor vehicle with the most USA content was a Toyota
> Camry.
>
> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in US of A:
> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico. Personally, I don't
like how auto companies exports jobs to Mexico then import the vehicles
into the U.S.. Much better how the Japanese brands build factories in
the countries in which they are going to sell the vehicles.

On 12/3/2021 7:59 AM, sms wrote:
> On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> You're right about Felt but these things can be
>> counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
>> the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.
>>
>> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made
>> in US of A:
>> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
>
> And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico.
> Personally, I don't like how auto companies exports jobs to
> Mexico then import the vehicles into the U.S.. Much better
> how the Japanese brands build factories in the countries in
> which they are going to sell the vehicles.

Remove the excessive regulation and manufacturers will move
those factories and maquiladoras here in a heartbeat.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/3/2021 11:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 7:59 AM, sms wrote:
>> On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> You're right about Felt but these things can be
>>> counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
>>> the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.
>>>
>>> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made
>>> in US of A:
>>> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
>>>
>>
>> And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico.
>> Personally, I don't like how auto companies exports jobs to
>> Mexico then import the vehicles into the U.S.. Much better
>> how the Japanese brands build factories in the countries in
>> which they are going to sell the vehicles.
>
> Remove the excessive regulation and manufacturers will move those
> factories and maquiladoras here in a heartbeat.

Right-On!

Just let them dump toxic waste in U.S. rivers, instead of the Rio Grande
<http://digitalcollections.library.cmu.edu/awweb/awarchive?type=file&item=440941>.
Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
Michigan.

Then pay the U.S. auto workers $2.25 per hour instead of $21 per hour.

Easy solution to bring those assembly line jobs back to the U.S..

On 12/3/2021 1:47 PM, sms wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 11:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/3/2021 7:59 AM, sms wrote:
>>> On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> You're right about Felt but these things can be
>>>> counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
>>>> the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.
>>>>
>>>> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made
>>>> in US of A:
>>>> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
>>>>
>>>
>>> And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico.
>>> Personally, I don't like how auto companies exports jobs to
>>> Mexico then import the vehicles into the U.S.. Much better
>>> how the Japanese brands build factories in the countries in
>>> which they are going to sell the vehicles.
>>
>> Remove the excessive regulation and manufacturers will
>> move those factories and maquiladoras here in a heartbeat.
>
> Right-On!
>
> Just let them dump toxic waste in U.S. rivers, instead of
> the Rio Grande
> <http://digitalcollections.library.cmu.edu/awweb/awarchive?type=file&item=440941>.
> Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former
> governor of Michigan.
>
> Then pay the U.S. auto workers $2.25 per hour instead of $21
> per hour.
>
> Easy solution to bring those assembly line jobs back to the
> U.S..

There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else no
one would move them in the first place.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 11:10:37 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 7:59 AM, sms wrote:
> > On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> You're right about Felt but these things can be
> >> counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
> >> the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.
> >>
> >> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made
> >> in US of A:
> >> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
> >
> > And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico.
> > Personally, I don't like how auto companies exports jobs to
> > Mexico then import the vehicles into the U.S.. Much better
> > how the Japanese brands build factories in the countries in
> > which they are going to sell the vehicles.
> Remove the excessive regulation and manufacturers will move
> those factories and maquiladoras here in a heartbeat.

Leftists haven't the slightest idea of the impact of excess regulation on American working people. And really, they don't care.

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 11:47:24 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 11:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 12/3/2021 7:59 AM, sms wrote:
> >> On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >>> You're right about Felt but these things can be
> >>> counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
> >>> the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.
> >>>
> >>> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made
> >>> in US of A:
> >>> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
> >>>
> >>
> >> And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico.
> >> Personally, I don't like how auto companies exports jobs to
> >> Mexico then import the vehicles into the U.S.. Much better
> >> how the Japanese brands build factories in the countries in
> >> which they are going to sell the vehicles.
> >
> > Remove the excessive regulation and manufacturers will move those
> > factories and maquiladoras here in a heartbeat.
> Right-On!
>
> Just let them dump toxic waste in U.S. rivers, instead of the Rio Grande
> <http://digitalcollections.library.cmu.edu/awweb/awarchive?type=file&item=440941>.
> Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
> Michigan.
>
> Then pay the U.S. auto workers $2.25 per hour instead of $21 per hour.
>
> Easy solution to bring those assembly line jobs back to the U.S..

Yeah, we've got you Scharf "The Magnificent" - Mexico doesn't allow the dumping of pollution. And of course reasonable regulations would be impossible to write. Why that might require someone that actually had some idea of the problem and not some dumbfuck like you who knows nothing about nothing but turns out to be the brother-in-law of some Congressman.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 05:59:44 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> You're right about Felt but these things can be counterintuitive. For
>> several years the motor vehicle with the most USA content was a Toyota
>> Camry.
>>
>> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in US of A:
>> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
>And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico. Personally, I don't
>like how auto companies exports jobs to Mexico then import the vehicles
>into the U.S.. Much better how the Japanese brands build factories in
>the countries in which they are going to sell the vehicles.

At the time the Japanese companies started building car factories in
the U.S I believe that they did it to avoid the possibility of risking
new protectionist measures. At least that is what the New York Times
reported.
https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/31/business/japan-s-made-in-america-cars.html

As for Mexico, I would guess that the cost of doing business and labor
are significantly lower there.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/3/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 05:59:44 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> You're right about Felt but these things can be counterintuitive. For
>>> several years the motor vehicle with the most USA content was a Toyota
>>> Camry.
>>>
>>> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in US of A:
>>> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
>> And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico. Personally, I don't
>> like how auto companies exports jobs to Mexico then import the vehicles
>> into the U.S.. Much better how the Japanese brands build factories in
>> the countries in which they are going to sell the vehicles.
>
> At the time the Japanese companies started building car factories in
> the U.S I believe that they did it to avoid the possibility of risking
> new protectionist measures. At least that is what the New York Times
> reported.
> https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/31/business/japan-s-made-in-america-cars.html
>
> As for Mexico, I would guess that the cost of doing business and labor
> are significantly lower there.
>

True, but not all factors are positive. Property rights, the
civil courts, some quality of life facets are maybe not
positive depending on where in Mexico. (and for staff, even
minor criminal processes can be extremely dangerous)

Taking this back to bicycles, Schwinn built a facility in
Greenville MS which, by the numbers, ought to have solved a
lot of their problems. But competent engineering and
management staff were wan to relocate and hard to replace in
Greenville MS. Turned out to be a very large unexpected new
problem.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 11:47:18 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
>Michigan.

Yep. For a clue of what the US might look like without clean water
regulations:

"3280 feet deep groundwater is contaminated in China/water and
cross-contamination is out of control"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cseicEu84>

If Mexico ever grows a manufacturing sector as big as China, expect it
to have the same problems as China.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:23:51 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 11:47:18 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> wrote:
> >Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
> >Michigan.
> Yep. For a clue of what the US might look like without clean water
> regulations:
>
> "3280 feet deep groundwater is contaminated in China/water and
> cross-contamination is out of control"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cseicEu84>
>
> If Mexico ever grows a manufacturing sector as big as China, expect it
> to have the same problems as China.

I'm not at all surprised that you like to talk about things you don't know about. "Brown Water" is that which is the water leaving sewage treatment plants and is fit for drinking safely though no one wants to. Instead it is dumped into the oceans and evaporates into the air and falls out of the sky and considered the purest of the pure despite the fact that it is falling through polluted air.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 15:28:54 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:23:51 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 11:47:18 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
>> >Michigan.
>> Yep. For a clue of what the US might look like without clean water
>> regulations:
>>
>> "3280 feet deep groundwater is contaminated in China/water and
>> cross-contamination is out of control"
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cseicEu84>
>>
>> If Mexico ever grows a manufacturing sector as big as China, expect it
>> to have the same problems as China.

>I'm not at all surprised that you like to talk about things you don't know about. "Brown Water" is that which is the water leaving sewage treatment plants and is fit for drinking safely though no one wants to. Instead it is dumped into the oceans and evaporates into the air and falls out of the sky and considered the purest of the pure despite the fact that it is falling through polluted air.

The water contamination mentioned in the YouTube video did not come
from a sewage treatment plant. It came from raw agricultural, mining,
and industrial waste. Locally, we had a problem similar to China. A
local electronics plant decided that the proper way to dispose of some
nasty chemicals was to dump them into the sand behind the plant:
<https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0902226>
We even made the list of EPA Superfund sites:
<https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902226>
Want that in your backyard?

No reputable sewage treatment plant delivers brown water. That's the
job of the local municipality, which might have a problem with dirt,
rust, or sediment incursion in the pipes:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=brown+drinking+water>
It's a serious problem depending on what enters the pipes. The water
pressure inside the pipes keeps the dirt from leaking INTO the pipes.
Lose water pressure, and you end up with dirt in the tap water. We
had the problem locally (SLVWD) when the Sept 2020 CZU Fire melted the
HDPE plastic water distribution pipes. Several areas were told to "Do
no drink, do not boil" the water because without testing, nobody
really knew what was in the water pipes. The big worry was benzene
from the melted plastic pipes.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 4:20:31 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 15:28:54 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:23:51 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 11:47:18 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
> >> >Michigan.
> >> Yep. For a clue of what the US might look like without clean water
> >> regulations:
> >>
> >> "3280 feet deep groundwater is contaminated in China/water and
> >> cross-contamination is out of control"
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cseicEu84>
> >>
> >> If Mexico ever grows a manufacturing sector as big as China, expect it
> >> to have the same problems as China.
>
> >I'm not at all surprised that you like to talk about things you don't know about. "Brown Water" is that which is the water leaving sewage treatment plants and is fit for drinking safely though no one wants to. Instead it is dumped into the oceans and evaporates into the air and falls out of the sky and considered the purest of the pure despite the fact that it is falling through polluted air.
> The water contamination mentioned in the YouTube video did not come
> from a sewage treatment plant. It came from raw agricultural, mining,
> and industrial waste. Locally, we had a problem similar to China. A
> local electronics plant decided that the proper way to dispose of some
> nasty chemicals was to dump them into the sand behind the plant:
> <https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0902226>
> We even made the list of EPA Superfund sites:
> <https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902226>
> Want that in your backyard?
>
> No reputable sewage treatment plant delivers brown water. That's the
> job of the local municipality, which might have a problem with dirt,
> rust, or sediment incursion in the pipes:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=brown+drinking+water>
> It's a serious problem depending on what enters the pipes. The water
> pressure inside the pipes keeps the dirt from leaking INTO the pipes.
> Lose water pressure, and you end up with dirt in the tap water. We
> had the problem locally (SLVWD) when the Sept 2020 CZU Fire melted the
> HDPE plastic water distribution pipes. Several areas were told to "Do
> no drink, do not boil" the water because without testing, nobody
> really knew what was in the water pipes. The big worry was benzene
> from the melted plastic pipes.

Where did I say it did?

On Fri, 03 Dec 2021 16:41:17 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/3/2021 4:32 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 05:59:44 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> You're right about Felt but these things can be counterintuitive. For
>>>> several years the motor vehicle with the most USA content was a Toyota
>>>> Camry.
>>>>
>>>> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in US of A:
>>>> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
>>> And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico. Personally, I don't
>>> like how auto companies exports jobs to Mexico then import the vehicles
>>> into the U.S.. Much better how the Japanese brands build factories in
>>> the countries in which they are going to sell the vehicles.
>>
>> At the time the Japanese companies started building car factories in
>> the U.S I believe that they did it to avoid the possibility of risking
>> new protectionist measures. At least that is what the New York Times
>> reported.
>> https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/31/business/japan-s-made-in-america-cars.html
>>
>> As for Mexico, I would guess that the cost of doing business and labor
>> are significantly lower there.
>>
>
>True, but not all factors are positive. Property rights, the
>civil courts, some quality of life facets are maybe not
>positive depending on where in Mexico. (and for staff, even
>minor criminal processes can be extremely dangerous)
>
>Taking this back to bicycles, Schwinn built a facility in
>Greenville MS which, by the numbers, ought to have solved a
>lot of their problems. But competent engineering and
>management staff were wan to relocate and hard to replace in
>Greenville MS. Turned out to be a very large unexpected new
>problem.

As an example of doing business in foreign countries, the company I
worked for had 1 "Personnel Person", with 1 secretary, to handle the
Immigration formalities of about 120 Expatriates and one more, with
secretary to handle all the other personnel affairs. Well over a
thousand individuals during one period.

I have no idea what it would require for a company of our size would
require in the U.S. but I've been told by others who had experience,
in the oil business, in the U.S., that our staff was "ridiculously
small".
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/3/2021 12:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:

<snip>

> There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else no one would
> move them in the first place.

The incentives were a) 1/10th the labor cost, and b) the ability to
pollute without any consequences.

On Fri, 03 Dec 2021 15:23:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 11:47:18 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
>>Michigan.
>
>Yep. For a clue of what the US might look like without clean water
>regulations:
>
>"3280 feet deep groundwater is contaminated in China/water and
>cross-contamination is out of control"
><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cseicEu84>
>
>If Mexico ever grows a manufacturing sector as big as China, expect it
>to have the same problems as China.

Yup, China says that "poor or extremely poor quality increases to
59.6%, Chinese government say", but cheer up the U.S. catching up as
quickly as they can. I read that some 20% of water samples tested
contained one or more contaminates.
https://www.usgs.gov/news/quality-nation%E2%80%99s-groundwater
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 12/3/2021 6:56 PM, sms wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 12:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else
>> no one would move them in the first place.
>
> The incentives were a) 1/10th the labor cost, and b) the
> ability to pollute without any consequences.
>

You made that up just now. Do you have any direct experience
with manufacturing facilities in Mexico?

Labor is less expensive and dropping besides increased
productivity:
https://insights.tetakawi.com/what-is-the-labor-cost-of-manufacturing-in-mexico

Environmental regulation is similar to USA (not identical)
but not a free for all either.

https://insights.tetakawi.com/mexican-environmental-laws-unenforced-turmoil-or-evolving-success

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 16:25:01 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 4:20:31 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 15:28:54 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:23:51 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 11:47:18 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
>> >> >Michigan.
>> >> Yep. For a clue of what the US might look like without clean water
>> >> regulations:
>> >>
>> >> "3280 feet deep groundwater is contaminated in China/water and
>> >> cross-contamination is out of control"
>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cseicEu84>
>> >>
>> >> If Mexico ever grows a manufacturing sector as big as China, expect it
>> >> to have the same problems as China.
>>
>> >I'm not at all surprised that you like to talk about things you don't know about. "Brown Water" is that which is the water leaving sewage treatment plants and is fit for drinking safely though no one wants to. Instead it is dumped into the oceans and evaporates into the air and falls out of the sky and considered the purest of the pure despite the fact that it is falling through polluted air.
>> The water contamination mentioned in the YouTube video did not come
>> from a sewage treatment plant. It came from raw agricultural, mining,
>> and industrial waste. Locally, we had a problem similar to China. A
>> local electronics plant decided that the proper way to dispose of some
>> nasty chemicals was to dump them into the sand behind the plant:
>> <https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0902226>
>> We even made the list of EPA Superfund sites:
>> <https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902226>
>> Want that in your backyard?
>>
>> No reputable sewage treatment plant delivers brown water. That's the
>> job of the local municipality, which might have a problem with dirt,
>> rust, or sediment incursion in the pipes:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=brown+drinking+water>
>> It's a serious problem depending on what enters the pipes. The water
>> pressure inside the pipes keeps the dirt from leaking INTO the pipes.
>> Lose water pressure, and you end up with dirt in the tap water. We
>> had the problem locally (SLVWD) when the Sept 2020 CZU Fire melted the
>> HDPE plastic water distribution pipes. Several areas were told to "Do
>> no drink, do not boil" the water because without testing, nobody
>> really knew what was in the water pipes. The big worry was benzene
>> from the melted plastic pipes.

>Where did I say it did?

Did what? Try hard to be specific. You wrote:
""Brown Water" is that which is the water leaving sewage
treatment plants and is fit for drinking safely though
no one wants to."
Is that what you're complaining about?

"EPA Effluent Guidelines"
<https://www.epa.gov/eg>

"EPA National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES)"
<https://www.epa.gov/npdes>
See Municipal wastewater and Industrial wastewater.

"Primer for Municipal Wastewater Treatment Systems"
<https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2015-09/documents/primer.pdf>

Maybe you would like to explain what your reply had to do with the
YouTube video of the ground water contamination problem in China,
which I suggested could become a problem in Mexico if its industry
grew to the size of China, or in the US in case the Republicans decide
to disassemble the various clean water laws and regulations.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558